New York 194: Guns N' Roses Mafia! (Day 8)

[Drixx]

Do I need to read what came already or is it mostly fluff?

[Drixx]

You don't need to read anything, just shoot someone to confirm your predecessor's quintuplevoting dayvig survivor claim.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure my predecessor didn't claim that, LOL.

[Drixx]

You don't need to read anything, just shoot someone to confirm your predecessor's quintuplevoting dayvig survivor claim.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure my predecessor didn't claim that, LOL.

You aren't that though, right?

I would push to policy lynch a survivor claim.

I am unequivocally

NOT

a survivor, or any other sort of third party.

[Drixx]

Why do people ask that question, Egg? Would anyone actually answer yes?

For shits and giggles: Yes, of course I'm scum. You totally caught me.

I mean ... seriously. LOL.

[Drixx]

If you really want to waste a mislynch because I thought it would be funny to screw around a bit, be my guest.

[Drixx]

But like ... tell me if you're seriously going to wagon me for that before I read the 400 posts before my replace-in, because it would be kind of dickish to have me catch up and read things just to be mislynched.

[Drixx]

Can you help us find the scum-aligned players, Drixx?

I'm actually pretty good at that.

See: Mafiaception
See: This Post

[Drixx]

i am what you would call a dick friend

Clearly. Your avatar is of a revered Indian figure, who I believe was a Hindu, eating beef. I mean ... you're going for the trifecta there.

[Drixx]

Ummm... you haven't played with me in a really long time Egg. I've moved beyond feeling like I have to be perfectly honest and moral and such in mafia. It's a game that by its very nature encourages people to lie, regardless of alignment.

Your meta on me is out of date. Check me out in Mafiaception for recent town, and I'll be glad to link you to my most recent couple scum wins.

I'm not the Drixx you remember from like a year ago.

[Drixx]

Hi KaaG. How's it hanging?

[Drixx]

Hey, it's Drixx!
I actually really like Egg's reaction test as it produced the very awkward 415. After which Drixx has multiple fluff discussions. I'd like to see some content from him but for now he's leaning scum.

I like KAAG's reads.

Hey mate. It's old home week up in here. I'll have thoughts out when I have read the thread, but everyone who has ever played with me knows that I super rarely get a lot out of day one until later because of my need to be able to make assumptions I can rely on. That said, I've gotten some pretty good advice and improved a bit on day ones in the last couple months. Don't expect me to miraculously pull the whole scum team out of my ass though; that's not likely.

umm jam is too new so I dont know if hes acting scummy or townie for him

This answer stinks. Pick one or the other.

SirCakez's last few posts have pinged me, both the one about pisskop (feels like asking for credit without blame) and the one to Ilikebugs (feels like trying to blame Ilikebugs for misinterpreting pisskop's post).

First one is understandable but the thing about Ilikebugs - what? I'm not blaming him, I'm just pointing out it wasn't serious. Since he's very new it's an understandable mistake.

Posting this from my phone

I guess for now I can accept this notion of Jam being newb town more then newb scum. I was confused on the early day wagon on them. I'm still feeling good on this pressure of ira & Robster is still weird for me.

I like Performer, Egg, & KAAG day one so far.

There's so many nulls & people who are inactive that this game has been harder than most day ones. Maybe it's the number of players in the game.

SirCakez, pisskop, Slandaar, & Something_Smart are notable nulls for me right now.

Also I feel like Something_Smart could possibly be setting up to pocket me later by how they're giving their read on me through multiple posts.

Pedit: I'll have to look at these Creatures interactions tomorrow. With that I'm off to work & won't be available till the morning.

Then who are you scumreading O.o

Agree with Irao that Ilikebugs's claim is prob legit.

Drixx replaces Mafiaturtle!

*waves*
Hi Drixx!

Because SirCakez is making a lot of short quips that don't really mean anything or represent a wider perspective.

This has been across a lot of my games recently. I've lost a lot of my motivation to really get into games, not sure why and it sucks, I still enjoy mafia :/ I'm trying to get back into it starting today though.

Drixx's joking is not a scumtell stop that. If he keeps it up after catching up then it could be.

Ok caught up
Townreads on Robster, Egg, KAAG, Slandaar
Scumreads on Jam, Creature, Irao

A lot of lurkers who need to step it up.

Hey SC. Thanks for the sanity check for everyone. I've always hated the "Are you scum?" reaction test because there's no predictive element. Town doesn't universally respond one way and scum doesn't universally respond a different way. The only way it's useful is with players who know each other very well. I think the last time someone tried to throw me such a blatant lose/lose reaction test on a day one, I tried to emulate Kuribo and ended up pissing off most of the game. I also found out that I don't enjoy playing like Kuribo, LOL.

Glad to see you're trying to get the motivation back. Active motivated SirCakez is much more fun than mopey SirCakez.

[Drixx]

VOTE: Drixx

Two stones, one scum

Oh hey look. He gets called scum by SirCakez and takes the opportunity to jump on an easy wagon. No correlation though, amirite?

[Drixx]

Drixx didn't pretend to claim survivor.

UNVOTE: Creature
VOTE: Guy

I think this is better.

But like ... tell me if you're seriously going to wagon me for that before I read the 400 posts before my replace-in, because

it would be kind of dickish to have me catch up and read things just to be mislynched

.

When you replace in there is no rule stating you cannot be lynched. You knew there is that risk so I find this line very ugly. Maybe you should catch up and make yourself really obviously town and then no problem, right? I think this is actually a scum mentality but am debating it with myself.

Did you think you would be lynched for saying you are scum?

You were there the last time someone posed a lose/lose question to me as a "reaction test", and if you recall I pointed out that it was a trap and declined to answer, and I'm sure you recall how that turned out.

[Drixx]

I think I probably just missed your question Performer. I stayed up from 9pm Sunday until 2:30am last night for non-mafia related stuffs, and I've been mostly recuperating from that today.

[Drixx]

I know it's OOC but the videos make me sad. I wish Axl hadn't been so impossible to get along with that Slash quit. I loved Guns 'N Roses, and that super unique vocal with Slash's innovative and super skilled guitar work produced something irreplaceable. None of the other 80's/90's rock groups even comes close.

[Drixx]

EbWoP: Why on earth are there repeating songs already in the vote counts when there are so many good songs that haven't been embedded yet?

Don't Cry, Knockin' on Heaven's Door, Patience, Used to Love Her, Estranged, Civil War, Mr. Brownstone.

I'll stop geeking out now.

[Drixx]

Because I'm going in the order that VEVO has them on youtube, so I can have some sort of rhyme/reason. I think some of those are live/not live, etc.

The recent live recordings are just depressing. Axl's signature voice is all but gone. In the live Sweet Child O' Mine, it just barely makes an appearance right near the end, and otherwise it sounds like a barely competent tribute/cover band. Getting old sucks.

---

For those not aware, I play D&D on Tuesdays for a long session, so you'll get my catch up late tonight or tomorrow early in the day, depending on my energy level after the D&D session. I think the folks waiting for me to obvtown know that already, but just throwing that out there.

[Drixx]

I am unequivocally NOT a survivor, or any other sort of third party.

I take this as admission of being scum.

You take it wrong.

[Drixx]

That vote pre-dates my replace in. I simply have removed it because (as you would know if you had read my posts) I haven't finished reading and putting my thoughts together. Don't be silly DGB.

[Drixx]

DGB has a history of being unable to read me. Not worried. I'm enjoying the hell out of the most recent vote count video.

Maybe it would be helpful for everyone to re-read. What I'm seeing is people throwing the proverbial pasta against the wall to see if something will stick. I'm not sure anyone other than scum benefit from us giving up the initiative and letting the game stagnate.

Hell ... feel free to ask me some specific questions and let's get this game revved up and get productive.

[Drixx]

DGB has a history of being unable to read me.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Show proof

Do I even have any completed games with you?

SaGa Frontier. You were irrationally up my ass right from the start there also.

[Drixx]

Color me embarrassed. I recall ABR saying you were town and I didn't bother to go check to be sure my memory was correct and you were town there. You can find ample evidence in my scum games that I wouldn't fail to go check a detail like that. If I were scum, you wouldn't catch me because of something like that.

[Drixx]

How about I color you as scum?

You can do whatever you like, but if you put me in the scum pile, do go ahead and reconcile yourself to being wrong.

[Drixx]

I think I probably just missed your question Performer. I stayed up from 9pm Sunday until 2:30am last night for non-mafia related stuffs, and I've been mostly recuperating from that today.

I am unequivocally NOT a survivor, or any other sort of third party.

I take this as admission of being scum.

You take it wrong.

Oh really now.
You replaced into the MafiaT slot, which I've held as a scumread and nothing that's been posted since the replace-in, has changed my mind.

Also, I inquired why your predecessor claimed 2-shot Cop for no good reason, then you ignored my question...then I asked about why you ignored it, and you're trying to play it off as if I never asked it?

Fishing for an Amished Tell? Whatever my predecessor may have been saying or doing or whatever gambits or reaction tests or things they said just for shits and giggles; there's absolutely nothing for me to say about them. I'm not that person and my mind reading device stopped functioning the day after the warranty expired. Trying to explain what a slot predecessor meant or was doing or really anything about them is both futile and scummy.

You should judge me on my own merits when I post that I've caught up and give my thoughts. Feel free to weigh your judgment of me against whatever you think of the slot prior to when I got it, but please don't expect me to suddenly start doing irrational things.

And I could have sworn that when I first replaced in I said "I'm pretty sure my predecessor probably DIDN'T make any outrageous claims" or something to that effect, as someone dropped a similar question on me.

Color me embarrassed. I recall ABR saying you were town and I didn't bother to go check to be sure my memory was correct and you were town there. You can find ample evidence in my scum games that I wouldn't fail to go check a detail like that. If I were scum, you wouldn't catch me because of something like that.

Wait a sec. This may actually be true and I may actually be wrong about you. O _ o Although your posts like the one you made about people throwing proverbial pasta on walls, I find that questionable because that's not what I'm seeing...

What are your thoughts on the lurkers like GuyFawke & Boonskies?
Would you say your town and scum meta are not prone to much change, therefore stable? (unlike players like Radiantcowbell, Titus, etc)

Boonskies has been low activity in every game I've played with him. It's frustrating ... which I suppose should make me get more active. In my defense, I had a really strange weekend and have been super busy. Things are calmer now and you can expect to see actual stuffs from me. Lurking, in general, is something I find frustrating. Again, something one might accuse me of up to this point.

As for my meta; self-meta analysis is unreliable, but since you asked: I am generally always trying to improve my play. The few times I've attempted to radically alter my play resulted in poor results, so I tend to change slowly. I've been a bit more aggressive recently, and that has served me well.

I mean ... obviously not in this game yet, but as I said; I've been a little busy. It happens occasionally.

[Drixx]

@Performer - I've read the thread. I'm going back through now and taking notes, as is my usual custom. I'll give you a more substantive answer when I've done so, along with some other thoughts.

My memory from my read through says that Boonskiies has posted almost nothing to read him by, which is par for the course. I've seen him use the low activity approach to very effective purpose as town; like ... he generally appears to be caught up with the game once he finally engages. So my experience would probably make me default to assuming he's doing it strategically, either to survive until later when he seems to be better at scumhunting, or to match his meta of doing that as town. I'll take special care to spend time on his ISO.

I don't recall playing with Guy before, so I can only judge him based upon what I see here. I don't really put a lot of stock in spending time meta diving people. It's time intensive and relying upon meta is a really good way to get snookered.

[Drixx]

Reubus - VT is the best assignment for working on your town game. It forces you to work on learning to read people accurately, both town and scum. I have learned the most when I've been VT and had to try and think of ways to get reactions and sort people without just waiting for a PR to solve the game for me.

It's all a matter of perspective.

[Drixx]

You guys realize that there aren't any votes made by me right? I mean ... my name is in the vote count, but it was cast by my predecessor. I haven't seen any reason to remove it, but I deserve no credit for it being where it is.

[Drixx]

You guys realize that there aren't any votes made by me right? I mean ... my name is in the vote count, but it was cast by my predecessor. I haven't seen any reason to remove it, but I deserve no credit for it being where it is.

Who even mentioned anything about your vote?

Ummm.... you did. See quote below. I've bolded for emphasis.

Irao, what is your read on DGB?

I am not sure.

601 I may find slightly suspicious depending upon its intentions. But I was reading Golden Robster as slightly town-aligned.

So I will ask you, DrippingGoofball, why do you vote Reubus over Drixx here? Do you really believe that Drixx and Reubus are both scum-aligned and that

Drixx is bussing Reubus

? Thank you for your time.

[Drixx]

People are mostly scumreading me because I haven't jumped in and dropped my thoughts yet. Mostly people who haven't played much with me. Activity level is NAI for me. I've just been busy.

The exception is Egg who hasn't played with me for like a year and scum read me for giving a smart ass response to a question that has no merit or usefulness. There's no way to accurately predict how various people will respond to the question: VT or PR or Scum could all respond exactly the same. Questions with no useful way to glean anything useful from them are generally questions I view as an attempt to trap. The person asking the question can interpret an answer any way they like.

[Drixx]

I always keep up with the game's progress while I'm catching up; otherwise it takes way longer to catch up.

And since Reubus has implied he's a VT, that post was actually really useful. His response to it will be useful in discerning his alignment. So far I feel like he paid lip service by agreeing to my point, but then just continued to be a lurk sack instead of using the freedom of being a VT (implicitly, anyway) to play aggressively and push people and see if he can get reactions and help move the game forward. Being a VT is completely liberating. There's absolutely nothing to lose. If you get lynched, the town loses no role utility and gains information from how your lynch happens, and if you play aggressively and push, you can draw a night kill (again sparing role utility) just by being active and either becoming a threat to scum or (ironically) by being off enough on your reads that scum think killing you will mislead the rest of town.

There's zero reason for a VT to be demotivated to play. It's the most liberating position to be in, besides Tree Stump. Tree Stump is the best. You cannot be silenced so you have free reign to solve the game and scum can't do a thing about it.

[Drixx]

It annoys me how Drixx keeps emphasizing that he didn't place his vote. It's like he's trying to avoid taking responsibility for it.

People keep suggesting I'm scum busing Reubus, but for that to be true, wouldn't I have to have casted the vote on him, and wouldn't that by definition require me to actually at least suggest we lynch him? To bus. It's a verb. That means it's an action. And before some smart ass comes and points out that verbs can be used in the passive, just don't. Nobody is using passive constructions, so the fact that verbs can be voiced passively doesn't apply.

I don't have scum to hand anyone on a platter just at the moment, and until Reubus his actions where his words are and backs up his stated agreement with me that if he is a VT he should be liberated to just play (by, you know ... actually playing), I don't see any strong reason to move the vote cast by my predecessor.

Did you have someone in mind or were you just wanting to toss some shade on me?

[Drixx]

I disagree. Leaving the vote where it was when I replaced in simply means that I have seen no reason to unvote, nor any reason to place my vote elsewhere. If Reubus were actually doing something, I would then have reason to consider what my vote is doing.

And I'm sorry but there is an actual difference:

1.) I replace in and a vote is on somebody. I didn't place the vote.
2.) I vote for someone. I placed the vote.

They're not the same thing, ergo there

is

a difference. If you can't say something that is actually true, just don't say anything. I mean ... seriously GuyFawkes? You stop being a lurksack to say something that is clearly logically untrue?

Oh ... and there's a super obvious point to leaving it where it is. Let me know when you figure it out.

[Drixx]

Drixx is trying to imply that if your vote isn't on someone it doesn't count as basing. Fucking hilarious

The opposite actually. A vote and no pressure or suggestion that one is scum doesn't seem like it would be a very efficient way to kill off a teammate and gain cred from it.

Just because I'm not scum this game doesn't mean I got handed a giant idiot ball and no longer understand basic scum play.

[Drixx]

I'm content with my vote. I would actually vote for L-1 pressure if that was a thing I could do. It has been a couple days since I told Reubus why his soft claim should result in him being active and "givesnoshits" level aggressive ... and he agreed and them promptly never posted again.

I'm really tempted to bust out the "He's a witch" sketch and beat people on the face with it.

[Drixx]

Isn't lurking out your wagon when you are nearly at lynch essentially a scum claim?

For the record; NOW I'm saying I think the slot is scum and we should finish it off.

[Drixx]

Isn't lurking out your wagon when you are nearly at lynch essentially a scum claim?

For the record; NOW I'm saying I think the slot is scum and we should finish it off.

Is this directed at my slot or Rubeus/Ness slot?

Yes.

But being serious: at the Reubus slot.

[Drixx]

No we aren't hammering Reubus slot without a claim stop

You mean the VT claim he made to which I responded that he should feel liberated and play aggressively as a VT since drawing a kill is added utility and therefore a VT has literally nothing to inhibit them?

[Drixx]

No we aren't hammering Reubus slot without a claim stop

You mean the VT claim he made to which I responded that he should feel liberated and play aggressively as a VT since drawing a kill is added utility and therefore a VT has literally nothing to inhibit them?

Do you think that Reubus is scum-aligned, because he isn't doing these things?

I don't believe a town!Reubus would say to me "Yeah, you're right! That makes sense" and then turn into a lurksack. It's within reason that there's some other reason for inactivity, but it seems much more likely that he's scum waiting out the wagon and hoping we move on out of frustration. I've lost count of how many times I've seen a wagon move to someone else because the person just doesn't show up and claim or engage, and people are afraid to hammer, for some reason.

[Drixx]

I also sleep in the nude; in case you guys are looking to set up some kind of amazing thing that an old guy could participate in to feel young ;p

[Drixx]

It's really not. You would regret stringing me up. Trust me or don't.

[Drixx]

VOTE: GuyFawkes

I can get down with this. Dude's wearing a mask. Seriously; scummy.

[Drixx]

Fire why are you scum so much, in games that you and I are in? Lol

This is exactly what you said in that game Pisskop took over, and guess what?
Way to not learn from past experiences bro.

Holy fallacious reasoning, Batman. The role that someone had in a prior game has absolutely no bearing on what role they were assigned this game.

[Drixx]

@KAaG - Telling people I'm voting for Guy to see how people react sort of defeats the purpose. Almost everyone seemed happy to just let it happen.

A couple of people expressed the "feeling" or opinion that he's probably town ... but based upon what? There's nothing to really read Guy by, so those people who took the opportunity while he was being discussed to throw out a "hey I think he's town; tots not giving any reasoning" are now essentially blinking neon signs saying "Look for scum here!" (presuming Guy flips town; they could just be bad and somehow reading a guy with no substantive content).

And then there's the people who questioned the votes on Guy. I'm going to withhold my thoughts on that for the time being.

Unvote

Time to see what we see elsewhere, I think.

[Drixx]

Fire why are you scum so much, in games that you and I are in? Lol

This is exactly what you said in that game Pisskop took over, and guess what?
Way to not learn from past experiences bro.

Holy fallacious reasoning, Batman. The role that someone had in a prior game has absolutely no bearing on what role they were assigned this game.

He says "Why are you scum so much" Yet:
1) I don't think he has ever been in a game with me as scum.
2) said this exact same line in a game I was town.

How is this not fallacious? He is using meta, that is innaccurate and counting it as a legit read.

What he said to you in a prior game when he was (presumably) scum and you were town ... has absolutely no way to impact the random generation of your alignments in this game. The fact that you are doubtcasting him and also subtly pushing yourself as town because of six words is concerning, to say the least.

[Drixx]

Something_Smart is trying too hard to live up to his name. I didn't say Guy was scummy in #1032. I said that I voted him to see how people would react. In fact I went out of my way to point out that Guy lacked any substantive content upon which to form a read. He had 14 posts when I made that post, and he has 15 now. There's almost nothing of substance there.

But you know ... you can just claim I said something and people will totally believe it.

[Drixx]

My day one, after I replaced in, was meh, at best. It wasn't quite what Egg has been pushing ... but it wasn't all that either.

[Drixx]

@KAaG - Telling people I'm voting for Guy to see how people react sort of defeats the purpose. Almost everyone seemed happy to just let it happen.

A couple of people expressed the "feeling" or opinion that he's probably town ... but based upon what? There's nothing to really read Guy by, so those people who took the opportunity while he was being discussed to throw out a "hey I think he's town; tots not giving any reasoning" are now essentially blinking neon signs saying "Look for scum here!"

(presuming Guy flips town;

they could just be bad and somehow reading a guy with no substantive content).

And then there's the people who questioned the votes on Guy. I'm going to withhold my thoughts on that for the time being.

Unvote

Time to see what we see elsewhere, I think.

Reading Comprehension. It's really important in a game based wholly upon text.

[Drixx]

You don't want to lynch me.

See: Mafiaception.

[Drixx]

You don't want to lynch me.

See: Mafiaception.

Are you referencing meta here?
Cause thats scummy too.

Can you please engage your brain when you are talking to me? Pretty please with a cherry on top?

Go look at Mafiaception. Go look at the post game commentary. You're going to see a guy there who is basically known for being aggressively caustic telling me I play just fine and in fact was so much of a threat the scum team killed me twice (True story!).

Now; I'm not saying I've got the same role (obviously) or even a similar one (obviously).

What I am saying is that town players would have to be holding idiot balls to vote me right now. Calling my posts fluff when I made a play, pointed it out before anyone said anything about it, including giving some preliminary thoughts about what I thought about it ... that's just bullshit and not true.

So if town wants to collectively hold an idiot ball and run me up ... okay. Your loss. I know what I'm doing and I've shown it.

I don't think you can say the same.

[Drixx]

wtf is an idiot ball?

An idiot ball is the rationalist explanation for why someone otherwise intelligent enough to avoid a mistake makes the mistake. I've most frequently seen it used when describing villains in fiction when a villain is presented as far too smart/clever/powerful to fail, but then makes a completely avoidable mistake allowing the protagonist to emerge victorious. I've seen this colloquially referred to as "The Voldemort Ball" as well.

The driving point is that I think the town members of this game who have experience with me would have to have some sort of excuse like the "idiot ball" in order to actually do so, given that I'm clearly doing my thing today and there are people in the game who have actually done scummy things (or simply been complete lurksacks and done nothing). It would be one thing if I were scum and had slipped all over myself or were holding an idiot ball myself. It's quite another to posit me as scum for "doing nothing" when people are commenting and asking what conclusions I am drawing from a gambit I early in the day phase.

So yeah ... when I refer to the "idiot ball", I'm actually complimenting people. It means I believe they are more intelligent than their course of action would seem to indicate.

[Drixx]

You should read the post again. People who are bad or actually are idiots ... they don't need to hold the idiot ball to play badly.

Come on Firebringer; you know that if I wanted to insult you I could make it smell like roses and look like diamonds.

How bout we turn our attention to some people who actually might be scum and put a noose around their necks and hang them until they die? Sound good?

[Drixx]

how about we put the noose around your neck?

Controlled aggression. I've read your manifestos. You

would

need to be holding an idiot ball to want to lynch me on day two; or be scum. Since you aren't deviating from your manifesto, I assume you're town. So drop the idiot ball and help me sort.

[Drixx]

Also I don't understand what Drixx is hoping to accomplish with this whole "idiot ball" logic.

I realized that I used something that makes sense in my own framework but maybe

doesn't

make sense. I didn't want people to think I was just hurling out insults left and right. You can read some of Yudkowski's writing on lesswrong.com for a much smarter and better explanation of the concept. The point is that I wouldn't tell someone who I think is playing badly that they're holding the idiot ball. The idiot ball is a metaphorical reason for why someone I know is good is doing something bad.

Drixx right now, Haven't looked into many more people. Kind of think Egg is town, meh.

Eggcellent!

VOTE: Drixx

Townbloc ho!

This post is just quoted for whenever I do eventually get killed so people know to come after you for trying to put yourself in the town block on a mislynch.

Drixx link me to one of your scumgames I need to check something.

SMITE is probably where you want to look. I had a scum game with Egg but Egg was SK and killed me night one. That game was odd though; mod kill on day one while I was literally in the middle of a gambit locked the day. I'm pretty sure Egg killed me because I thought another slot was SK and was pushing to kill them.

I have another scum game where I was reflexively killed when I rolecopped a member of the other scum team on night 2, but was being town read.

Apart from that, I've got a surprising number of perfect wins as scum in the newbie queue, and 1 loss.

So yeah ... as much as I wish I could point you to some game OTHER than the longest game on the site ever ... if you want to see me play as scum over a long period of time you gotta go look at SMITE. Sorry.

---

Anyways ... it's futile to defend oneself in mafia. Defending oneself is considered scummy. Pointing out that people are playing suboptimally is apparently also scummy. The reason I pointed people to Mafiaception was to show that I can appear scummy while executing a very strong town game, and so I should be given the benefit of the doubt and left to obvtown when I'm good and ready to do so. There area several players who have objectively done less than me and looked scummier ... and do remember that I replaced in, so we're talking people who have the advantage of being around for a lot longer in the game too.

Ergo killing me when you can't really point to anything that's objectively scummy is sub-optimal, since you can look at my town games and see that I intentionally scum myself up some. Keeps the night kills away and lets me start figuring the game out once there are actual assumptions I can safely make (I play from the game from a rationalist perspective applying logic and decision theory... if anyone is

actually

interested, I can start a thread on it in MD after the game. I've been considering doing so anyway). It's strictly inferior to string me up for the reasons being given when those reasons apply more strongly to other slots.

So yeah.

Mod: V/LA until Monday please. In-laws have arrived.

When my in-laws drive away I hope to find myself not lynched already, because I totally actually have some notes and investment in the game already. If you all could restrain yourselves for a day and a half and wait and see, that would be pretty cool. If not; that's life. (Or death, as it were).

[Drixx]

EbWoP: I wouldn't tell someone I don't know or someone who I don't think needs to have an excuse for playing badly that they were holding the idiot ball. That's only something I will say to people I've played with and seen demonstrate an above average level of play. Otherwise I have no basis to judge whether or not some external tongue in cheek reason is needed to explain bad play.

Gotta run ... in-laws are taking us to dinner. Probably not going to be back until tomorrow night at the soonest.

[Drixx]

VOTE: Drixx
Feel better about this now.

I'm sorry my past sins made you so paranoid of me.

[Drixx]

Prod dodge.

On skim noticed Drixx mentioned my SK game and I actually based my kills in that game on three things:
-I wanted to kill scum
-I wanted to kill players unlikely to be lynched
-I wanted to kill people scumreading me or who may scumread me later.

You fit all three and made the perfect N1 kill.

You played quite well that game. I got caught with my pants down trying to play a gambit when the mod kill happened. It was unfortunate, to say the least.

Interestingly enough, I would have been just as after that slot as town, because I thought it was the SK, and an SK speeds the game up which benefits scum and hurts town, so I generally look for them regardless of alignment. I assume the focus on an SK in a setup where one is known to exist is a scum tell to some?

Also ... in laws just left. I need to catch up site wide. Expect a wall post or a series of shorter posts later tonight.

[Drixx]

KAAG gave me the biggest challenge of any new player to the site I've ever played against. He's understating things when he says I was under heavy pressure "at times".

If you are super curious about what kept me tied up today, you know where to look. For obvious reasons I can't and won't say more.

[Drixx]

Can I just say something? My meta is like ... the exact opposite of having a meta. I'm literally

always

tinkering with my game. Most of the time I learn stuff and get better. Slandaar was around for a disastrous attempt to inject Kuribo style into my game last year. All this talk about my meta is not really helpful. Just let me get some fires put out and actually be present here more than surface level and judge me on that.

Trying to out think what I would or wouldn't do if I draw scum is exactly why I do well as scum. I suspect it helps most people when they draw scum if the players with them are making bad assumptions. So just erm... don't? I'm not scum, but if I were you would totally be making a huge mistake by trying to figure that out via meta. Since you're doing that with me, it seems likely you may do so with others as well, and that's the part that I'm really trying to knock sense into you about. I'm not going to bite (this game), but there are others who more than might.

[Drixx]

Also meta is BS.

I half-agree with this. Meta is useful for disproving tells ("Player X is scum because he did Y." "Actually, he does Y even as town, so that doesn't say anything about his alignment.") but not for proving them ("Player X did Y as scum. He must be scum here for doing Y."). So I think looking at Drixx's scum meta is helpful in establishing that he doesn't play in a consistent way as scum, and therefore should not be townread for his playstyle.

Good post.

The only thing you can depend upon to be NAI for me is my activity level. I play as actively as I can in every game regardless of alignment or role. If my activity dips, it means something is causing it. Like ... you can look at every single game on site and see that as the single consistency.

My wife has today off and we're down to the last 3 episodes of Sons of Anarchy. I may be able to sneak in a more substantive post while she's fixing dinner (her turn!).

[Drixx]

DGB called me scum in SaGa Frontier also. I wasn't. So far I've seen nothing in DGB's play that matches up with the level of awe some people on the site seem to have for her. Perhaps she's still kicking the rust off?

;p

[Drixx]

When my in-laws drive away I hope to find myself not lynched already, because I totally actually have some notes and investment in the game already. If you all could restrain yourselves for a day and a half and wait and see, that would be pretty cool. If not; that's life. (Or death, as it were).

We've restrained ourselves. So...where is it?

See below. Like ... your post here #1199 is basically evidence that you haven't read even this page. Right on this page is the below quote and another post by me that you clearly didn't read.

If you want to come after me and be taken seriously, please at least actually read the thread.

KAAG gave me the biggest challenge of any new player to the site I've ever played against. He's understating things when he says I was under heavy pressure "at times".

If you are super curious about what kept me tied up today, you know where to look. For obvious reasons I can't and won't say more.

[Drixx]

EbWoP: So of course my post is the page topper. Your post #1199 is evidence that you hadn't even read the page where you posted it.

[Drixx]

DGB called me scum in SaGa Frontier also. I wasn't.

So far I've seen nothing in DGB's play that matches up with the level of awe some people on the site seem to have for her. Perhaps she's still kicking the rust off?

;p

but your play is so unpredictable that just because they were wrong last time it doesn't mean they aren't right this time, right?

Wow; a post actually saying something from Guy?

[Drixx]

boring.

can we quick Lynch someone yet?

You volunteering?

[Drixx]

I'll trade myself for Killthestory. Let's go. 1on1.

[Drixx]

I'll trade myself for Killthestory. Let's go. 1on1.

ive already tried to do so and you talked about some stupid fucking idiot ball of which i clearly dont understand but just think its general ate

I don't ever intentionally appeal to emotion. It's just not the way I play.

There really shouldn't be anything confusing about the idiot ball analogy. I'll give a literary example, from Harry Potter (because it's so widely read it should click).

Voldemort is powerful and knows all sorts of magic. He's cunning and trusts nobody with the secret of his immortality. He uses the killing curse to try and kill an infant HP, and it rebounds and kills him instead.

Now... given all the ways in which the character of Voldemort is described as being intelligent and cunning and careful to hide his weaknesses, why would he ever try to use the same curse to kill HP that resulted in his near death the first time around? Why not some other curse? The only explanation is that the author gave him an idiot ball. The character was shown to act as less potent and intelligent than the writer established him to be.

In the same way; there are people in this game who are might more intelligent and cunning than they're behaving. Since I know them to be such, the same idea comes into play. Some external reason is making them play suboptimally. For the sake of having something to call it that isn't just randomly insulting people, I use the idiot ball metaphor.

Unvote, Vote Drixx

Drunk Egg realizes no one wants to lynch Creature's slot anymore and Drixx is more likely scum than Aris and Guy and the Frag lynch doesn't even feel that viable anymore. Why can't I be a dayvig or something? Whatever this is good enough

You're smarter than this Egg. So that means you're either being stubborn, or you're scum.

[Drixx]

Drixx do you have reads?

Generally I don't just dump reads lists. If I'm going to actually get lynched, I'll infodump because that's the only responsible thing for me to do. If people want me to make a list, I'll make a list.

You're smarter than this Egg. So that means you're either being stubborn, or you're scum.

The idiot ball thing makes sense Drixx but you think you know Egg well enough to say this?

Ummm... you haven't played with me in a really long time Egg.

I've moved beyond feeling like I have to be perfectly honest and moral and such in mafia. It's a game that by its very nature encourages people to lie, regardless of alignment.

Your meta on me is out of date. Check me out in Mafiaception for recent town, and I'll be glad to link you to my most recent couple scum wins.

I'm not the Drixx you remember from like a year ago.

I think not. You think he knows you well enough that he shouldn't scumread you? your above post suggests otherwise.

Egg was referring to a very specific ethical quandary I used to have with the game. I came to grips with it. There's a difference between big picture and fine detail.

That said, I don't particularly like your lynch anymore, everyone should just sheep me and lynch Aristo.

Oh, I quite agree that I shouldn't be lynched. I pointed out, as much as I could, why this game isn't getting my full attention at the moment. The response to that veered into "against the rules" territory (KaaG's), so I didn't say anything further.

[Drixx]

Please note all the people using very lame reasons to justify voting me. For each person the question is simple:

Are they scum jumping onto an easy mislynch?

OR

Are they just really bad town who can't think or reason well?


How you answer that will determine the outcome of the game when you see me flip town and realize that I really was just legit busy and you should have given me the time to get into the game. Some of you in this game know the level of effort I put into games when something else isn't chewing up my time. Those of you who don't should check out my hydra account Reasonably Rational; in the user topics you'll see one that is the Hydra PT for Steven Universe. If you really think I've said or done something scummy enough to warrant giving up that level of dedication as an upside to giving me time and space, then you should point it out. If you don't, you should probably pick some other person to lynch for bad reasons.

---

OOC:

It may not matter much longer for this particular game, but I do want to mention before I forget to do so. My doctor put me on a 12 day run of Prednisone and today is day 6. I'm very intentionally being careful. The last time I was on this medication, it had a distinctly negative impact on me and gave me a short temper and an incredible capacity to rage if triggered. It wasn't pleasant for anyone involved, and you all don't need Roid Rage Drixx in your life. It's a tapering dose and it won't be affecting me in another 8 days or so. Until then, I'll err on the side of caution.

[Drixx]

Please note all the people using very lame reasons to justify voting me. For each person the question is simple:

Are they scum jumping onto an easy mislynch?

OR

Are they just really bad town who can't think or reason well?

Yeah, they're the only two reasons someone might be voting you here.

I've done nothing scummy. I simply haven't given reads or thoughts from what came before I replaced in. Some people

claim

I haven't done any scum hunting, but that's easily contradicted by simply reading my ISO. There's no justifiable reason to have a town read or a scum read on me right now. I get you being wary of me, but you're falling prey to a mental bias. In terms of probability, it's far less likely that I am scum this game than town, and the reason you have to be wary of me isn't present in this game.

What you're doing is the very definition of misuse of meta. Just because you played one game with me and I was scum doesn't inform you at all about this game. It also doesn't give you the ability to know that activity is NAI for me. It also doesn't inform you of how I tinker with my game all the time, because you lack sufficient games with me to have seen that.

In short; you have no objective reason to scum read me. You do have objective reasons to scum read others. It's also demonstrably a fact that I put a lot of effort into games; I even pointed to an example.

So now it's simply a matter of applying logic to the situation. There's a pool of X players who might be lynched today. Some people are making statements that aren't actually true in order to attempt to push a wagon on me, while letting others get a free pass to lurk through the day. Some of those others are actually guilty of the claims being made about me. What does this tell you?

Furthermore; it's very early in the game. Even if you had an honest, rational reason to scum read me, it would have to be pretty weak, given that I self-admittedly haven't engaged fully with this game due to time constraints. So why would you want to gamble with taking away what I bring to the table as town when you can afford to wait and have plenty of other targets who are objectively actually scummy and more likely to result in the desired (town) outcome?

It doesn't make sense.

[Drixx]

Drixx, don't say you haven't done anything scummy. A disproportionate amount of your posts are defensive and your defending is done in a stilted and awkward way that does not at all resemble a town defense.
This most recent post is no exception. KAAG's meta argument is at best a tangential point, but you write a wall about it and ignore the other issues. Not to mention that saying "don't lynch me I promise I'll come in handy later" is not helping you at all.

The last time I checked, it's not scummy to try and stay alive as town. Scum need to achieve X mislynches. You think I should just say nothing and let them get one for free? That's absurd.

By the way: the more people pile on with vague generalities and the more likely it therefore seems I'll be lynched today, the less effort you get from me. I have other things I can be doing ... just off the top of my head:

1.) I can be streaming, which is a thing I do.
2.) I can be doing research for my next journal article to be published.
3.) I could be napping.
4.) I could be playing on my PS4, where I've got a huge backlog of games to work through: NBA 2k16, The Last of Us Remastered, Gauntlet Slayer Edition, Shadow of Mordor GOTY, The Crew + Wild Run, The Witcher 3 + Hearts of Stone ... and more. That's just the stuff I'd like to get done in the relatively near future.
5.) I could be working on designing games I want to run on site.


Like ... the more me being perfectly reasonable gets answered with foolishness, the more inclined I am to just prodge.

And you're being the most foolish of all. It's demonstrable that I know what I'm doing as town. You can go and confirm, so claiming that me pointing it out and asking why on earth you would push me for weak reasons when there's better targets is actually right on point.

I'm all good though. I already said I'm happy to trade 1-for-1, and there are plenty of smart people in this game. Unless my faction (town) got ridiculously screwed by the randomizer, me getting pushed for awful reasons and a bunch of the terrible posts from this day phase should be useful for PoE later. Long as we win, I'm good.

[Drixx]

Egg: You picking up on what I am?

[Drixx]

I'm sure now. I'm pretty sure Egg can't help but see it too.

[Drixx]

@Egg - I saw Aristophanes answering a question you directed at someone else. Then I dropped in a comment and he jumped on that too. Being overly concerned and worried about stuff not directly or overtly linked to someone is something I've seen out of scum quite a lot.

Surprised you didn't pick up on it.

[Drixx]

I view egg as the origination of the wagon on me. He hasn't been super overtly pushing it, but he's doing a lot of questions directed at other people that lead to them voicing support for or even voting me. That strikes me as a bit of a manipulative way to go about getting a wagon on someone without appearing to have your hands dirty. Ergo, I'm trying to sort him.

[Drixx]

OHXMY GOD DRIXX YOU TAKE PREDISZONE OR WHATEVER?

NOW I EONT WANT TO LYMCH YPU JJST SO WE. AN TALK. I USSD TO TAKE THAT SHIT ALL THE TIME OMG

Ummm. Only when my bum shoulder flares up and swells a lot. I dislike taking medications that screw with my mind. I only brought it up so that if I happen to start irrationally raging, people will realize why and maybe be like "Drixx... the steroids are screwing with you. Go take a break."

I value relationships over everything else on this site.

#RealTalk

[Drixx]

I view egg as the origination of the wagon on me. He hasn't been super overtly pushing it, but he's doing a lot of questions directed at other people that lead to them voicing support for or even voting me. That strikes me as a bit of a manipulative way to go about getting a wagon on someone without appearing to have your hands dirty. Ergo, I'm trying to sort him.

Actually, I was compromising on you because people won't sheep my Creature case.

Fair enough. That mostly satisfies what was bothering me about how you were interacting with the wagon on me. Apart from the reasoning against me just being really bad, I'm wondering why nobody is picking up on some of the really scummy stuff going on, nor the fact that there's literally no resistance to my wagon and no real counterwagon. Not everyone going all lemming on me can be scum, I don't think, but some self-awareness from the town would be a good thing right about now.

@Guy - Really?

I'm going to go with what caught my attention and do this:

VOTE: Aristophanes


That said, Guy popping in and just blatantly prod dodging and intentionally lurking out the day strikes me as something to be concerned about.


P-Edit: Actually Aristophanes, I've lost count of how many scum get paranoid and get caught by posts like the ones you made. Pointing out that you linked to a case against you doesn't change the fact that you are intercepting questions meant for other people and seem paranoid at super general comments. I made the super general comments just to see if you would bite, and you did.

And, for the record, in SMITE I was last scum alive for a really long time and like two day phases before the final showdown (which I won), I literally pointed someone in the game to the evidence they needed to confirm me as scum, and that player didn't bother to look because he assumed I would only point him to it if it backed my claim. Pointing at a case against you is a clever scum play, because it's one of those things that "scum wouldn't do".

[Drixx]

Sheeping is hard Kurio. Don't be too hard on Yume.

[Drixx]

Whether you agree is irrelevant. It will come down to who is right.

Since he lists me as town and I am, and you think I'm scum, he's got you beat on at least one of them.

[Drixx]

KaaG - Why are you going for the "repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it" strategy? That doesn't seem very honest of you.

[Drixx]

You can't say I'm not scumhunting when I've made plays specifically designed to sort people, and one of them caught someone in a very classic scum reaction. The more you try to insist that I'm not doing anything, the more you are either outing yourself as scum or as playing badly. You're supposed to re-assess people based upon the evidence,

NOT

pick a position and try to warp everything to fit that position. Deass your head and get in the game, son; it's moving on without you.

[Drixx]

I stopped looking like scum as soon as I started working on getting reactions and reads on people. Half of the player list (you included) knows that I don't give formal reads lists outside of exceptional circumstances, so stop being intellectually dishonest. I said I had read the game and had some notes and I would engage. I have engaged.

In case you somehow failed to pick up on it by now: It's very possible to learn a lot by watching. I don't have to be a bull in a china shop to accomplish something. This idea that you (and the people you probably learned it from) put forth that someone has to be constantly actively and obviously pushing someone in order to be scum hunting is just patently false. Too much of the game is psychological, and I've caught way more scum because their narrative got exposed by unexpected events than I have by just randomly pushing someone to close to lynch to see how they react.

In short: there's more than one tool in a good toolbox. And you're still being intellectually dishonest. Maybe the 2nd time is the charm: de-ass your head.

[Drixx]

You've got some cognitive dissonance in your reads Something_Smart. Can you explain them please?

[Drixx]

Only if you are scum and want to push a mislynch. I know you know how to play the game, so your assertion that I haven't pushed for reactions (which is a form of scum hunting) is obviously a lie. You obviously know that reaction tests are scum hunting, but you say there's none in my ISO. That's a contradiction.

P-Edit: I said I had notes and promised to engage in the game. I've been engaging in the game several times a day. My in-laws left on Sunday afternoon. It's Friday. That's 5 days.

So now, since you want to be a fucking liar. I invoke Lynch All Liars.

VOTE: KickAssAndGiggle

Die lying piece of scum.

[Drixx]

Add buzzwords to lies and you have A+B = Scum.

Let's string em up folks. Scum can't win 1-for-1 trades. I'm totally willing to put my in game life on the line. I've played with KaaG before, and this is scum!KaaG.

[Drixx]

Add buzzwords to lies and you have A+B = Scum.

Let's string em up folks. Scum can't win 1-for-1 trades. I'm totally willing to put my in game life on the line. I've played with KaaG before, and this is scum!KaaG.

You've never played with scum!KAAG. So...lynch all liars, am I right?

Anyone can click your ISO and see how much garbage it is.

I never claimed to have played with you as scum. I just said that you are scum. You made a mistake when you thought I would be an easy mislynch.

You've also given off several scum, including outright lies and misrepresentation and falling back on buzzwords.

Like I said: I'm confident enough to ask people to lynch you and take me out if I'm wrong. Scum can't win mafia trading themselves 1-for-1 so that makes no sense for a scum me.

Hell; I'll even go first if needs be. I'm town and you done goofed and outed yourself as scum trying to push what you thought would be an easy mislynch.

[Drixx]

Drixx, we're all liars.

While it's true that mafia rewards deception, there's a vast difference between the reasons town lie and the reasons scum lie.

There's no town reasoning for KaaG's lies, and when pressed on it he fell back on buzzwords. Classic scum tell.

[Drixx]

I think it's really obvious that he made a mistake about the number of days regardless of his alignment?

Honest town who are actually trying to solve the game don't stubbornly stick to something that isn't true when it's pointed out. They re-evaluate.

You know who has to start with a conclusion and then lie, manipulate, misrepresent and cherry pick to try and get people to believe the conclusion? Scum.


@Something_Smart - Are you seriously saying that I'm scum because of VCA on a day one lynch with no scum flips yet to actually give you associatives to work with? That's weak. And are you actually saying that town should just not respond or defend ourselves? That seems like a really good way to get wrecked.

---

KaaG: "Waah! I want Drixx to give a reads list and he won't. Even though he ran a gambit to see who would sheep on Guy and even though he got Aristophanes to bite hard and give off classic scum tells, there's absolutely

NOTHING

in his ISO that is anything other than fluff. There's no scumhunting there. And he promised to give a reads list SEVEN days ago. Pay no attention to the fact that what he actually said was that he had notes and would engage with the game once his in laws left. Just believe me when I hand wave and put words in his mouth so I can make him look guilty. Pay no attention to the fact that I am lying to you and fall back on buzzwords when called out about it. No... don't look at the man behind the curtain ... he's not important!"


Something_Smart: "It's totally scummy for this town guy to point out that things being said to try and get him lynched are not true. He's mad scummy for defending himself. Oh, and even though VCA is completely trash because of the actual way that probability and maths work, I'm totally going to misapply it so I look like I have a reason to have this read."


Shall I continue?

[Drixx]

@Drixx: my issue with you is not that you are defending yourself. It's that whenever you're attacked, you drop everything and call out the player who attacked you. You don't try to do anything to prove that you're town, you just throw shade on your attackers.

That's not accurate with how I tested Aristophanes. Try again?


@Killthestory - It was more meant as a satirical snarky take on what's going on than strictly an ad hominem. I think sarcasm and satire and tongue in cheek are ways to point out things that are silly without actually having a personal go at people. I have a very specific position about mafia. It's not worth it for me to make enemies to win. I would rather lose every game of mafia but end up with a bunch of friends on the site than be some kind of super winner who alienates everyone I'd rather be friends with.

Hope that puts it in context.


P-Edit: My in laws left on Sunday. I'm pretty sure I said something in game after they left. Now you're changing your story. Let's leave aside the part where I didn't promise anything other than engaging with the game, which I have done. Your assertion was that it had been 7 days since I was supposedly "due" to give something I never promised in the first place. Your entire "case" is a house of cards, and misdirection and handwaving won't change that.

[Drixx]

Anyone who takes mafia seriously is missing the point.

@Aristophanes - That's kind of funny. You're the one who bit hook line and sinker and classically scum slipped. If KaaG weren't busy building what looks like a classic scum narrative, I'd still be voting you.

[Drixx]

I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth but umm... what makes Snarky a better candidate than Guy or Aristophanes?

[Drixx]

The handwriting is pretty clear on the wall.

VOTE: Snarky

[Drixx]

You're stuck in confirmation bias Something_Smart. If I left my vote on KaaG, you would call it a vanity vote or an attempt to dodge VCA or some shit like that. The day is running out and an actual wagon is happening; I asked why even though I knew asking why could possibly be to my own detriment, and there wasn't much for answers, as people were bizarrely confused by me using the phrase "look a gift horse in the mouth" and talked about that instead ... but we aren't going to gain anything by a no lynch.

I'm not going to use (or not) my vote trying to decipher what you think I should or shouldn't do. You need to re-assess your priors and get the fuck out of confbias mode.

[Drixx]

Where in that did you read that I was confbiasing?

When everything I say or do results in you then coming along to say "that is another reason he's scum!", you're stuck in confirmation bias.


Firstly because I'm town, so there's literally nothing I can say or do that would actually indicate I'm scum. (Ironically, I got lynched as Arya Stark in a recent ASOIAF game for a "scum slip" even though I was town. How can town possibly ever "scum slip"? They aren't scum. Anyway... I presume you get the idea).

It also demonstrates really clearly that your reasoning is flawed.

After the game is over and you know for absolute sure that I am town (and it will not risk breaking the rules), I seriously am going to send you a PM and direct you to the sequences a lesswrong. Brilliant mind being dragged down by cognitive biases.

[Drixx]

So not everything you have done is scummy. But so many things you have done show scum motivation and it's not confbias because I look at each post and say, "this is scummy and the person who wrote it is scum" rather than saying "Drixx wrote it and now I can find a way to call it scummy". But these are the things you have done recently:
Pushed Ari for a scumslip while simultaneously saying that scumslips are often wrong.
Voted Snarky for a reason that can only be explained as "this seems to be the convenient wagon".
Appealed to my skill as a player in a way that reeeeally assumes I am town.

Umm... regardless of your alignment, you don't want to be transparently confirmation biasing on people. In fact, I would argue it's

more

important as scum because scum get caught because of their narrative all the time, and nothing is quite so obvious as setting up a mislynch by manipulating everything says or does so you can call it scummy.

So yeah ... you most definitely ARE confbiasing, because you went to the length of assuming I'm town reading you and that what I said would only apply to town. There was nothing in what I said that even referenced your alignment.

Strike that: there's one little difference between town and scum conf bias. Town actually have to be suffering from the cognitive bias associated with it whereas scum just demonstrate the act. Really slight difference but it is a thing.

[Drixx]

The handwriting is pretty clear on the wall.

VOTE: Snarky

You're stuck in confirmation bias Something_Smart. If I left my vote on KaaG, you would call it a vanity vote or an attempt to dodge VCA or some shit like that. The day is running out and an actual wagon is happening; I asked why even though I knew asking why could possibly be to my own detriment, and there wasn't much for answers, as people were bizarrely confused by me using the phrase "look a gift horse in the mouth" and talked about that instead ... but we aren't going to gain anything by a no lynch.

I'm not going to use (or not) my vote trying to decipher what you think I should or shouldn't do. You need to re-assess your priors and get the fuck out of confbias mode.

Do you actually think SnarkySnowman is scum-aligned?

I don't understand what the phrase you used in the first quote means, but I would interpret it as "everyone else is voting snarky snowman so thats what were doing", which is pretty awful.

It's like what Creature did earlier. I think that being unnecessarily cryptic means that you are trying to hide something.

I mean that I'm not going to get my way and none of my scum reads are going to get lynched, so my choice is to be stubborn and sit on a vanity wagon, or join the lynch. For a long time on site, I just stayed on my vanity wagon and protested what I viewed as foolishness, but that doesn't really help anyone and it's really a bit of a dick move. So erm... what was cryptic about that?

[Drixx]

Exactly. It's clear to me that for whatever reason, I can't get any traction on people who actually look scummy. DGB has also tried to get traction on a slot that's scummy. For whatever reason, the majority of you guys don't even want to consider a bunch of slots.

Since I think those slots SHOULD be considered, to me the current situation is not ideal. So that's why I used the idiom.

[Drixx]

We're coming up on the end of the day. We are going to lynch somebody. I literally cannot get traction on any slot I read as scummy no matter what I say. There are two wagons that are potentially viable that aren't me. My vote WAS a vanity vote on a wagon nobody was going to join.

Why exactly does it not make sense for me to cast my vote onto one of the viable wagons that isn't me, as the day nears its end?

Like I said ... de-ass your head and drop the confirmation bias. You just actually said that voting for a viable wagon that isn't me close to the end of the day doesn't make sense no matter who I am. That might win the record for least sensible thing ever said on these forums.

[Drixx]

@Drixx Do you think town or scum are more likely to be survivalistic?

Scum absolutely have to be survivalist. It's the only way they can win. I can win if you mislynch me, so it's not as imperative for me.

That said; not all town are equal. Perhaps I think too highly of myself... perhaps I don't. Since I know I'm town and I know that I have objectively had very good success in the middle and late part of games with the way I play, I view my survival as considerably more valuable than risking a mislynch on a slot that's a complete lurksack doing absolutely nothing of value. If we were to lynch let's say ... Guy... and he flipped town. That would be way less than the loss of you lot mislynching me.

And I can point you to objective examples of why I'm good to keep around.


TL;DR

Obvious Answer: Scum must by definition always be more likely to be survivalist.
Less Obvious Answer: Town can have motive to be survivalist as well.
Takeaway: Trying to survive isn't necessarily a scum tell.


Did I catch the subtext and address it properly?

[Drixx]

I'm gonna catch up now. If anyone has questions for me, feel free to ask and I'll address them after I'm done.

Can you evaluate my thoughts on Something_Smart please? Second pair of eyes is always good.

[Drixx]

The idiot ball is simply a made up explanation for someone acting as if they were far less intelligent/skilled/etc... than they are. It seems idioms are causing trouble for whatever reason, so I'll stay away from them.

[Drixx]

KaaG's specific lie is stating that there was nothing in my ISO but fluff. Since I had run at least two different gambits before he said that, and pointed them both out afterward, it's not actually possible for his statement to be true.

[Drixx]

KaaG - I never said which alignment I played with you as. I just said that you were scum now. Periods separate thoughts.

[Drixx]

@Mod - Another VLA for a few days - Turns out I'm sicker than I thought. Might be strep, I dunno. I've been spitting blood and haven't been able to swallow comfortably for a whole week now.

Dude. Go see a doctor. If you lack the means, send me a PM and I'll take care of it. You don't spit up blood for a week and not get it checked. I'm being super serious and real here. The symptoms you describe are potentially symptoms of one of several fatal conditions. I've lost several online friends because they waited too long to see a doctor. Please take this seriously.

KaaG - I never said which alignment I played with you as. I just said that you were scum now. Periods separate thoughts.

Just LOL. You imply previous experience, which you do not have. And periods separate sentences. You've never had a thought that took multiple sentences to express before?

I believe SnarkySnowman is town-aligned, because of posts like this:

No because this lynch is stupid

I think his response to being voted has been comparable to N e s s (who most players misread) in terms of being indignant.

There are not many reasons because he does not have many posts.

If scum can come across as town by posting a six word rebuttal, why don't scum win every game? I'll tell you why: because that six word rebuttal is not remotely alignment indicative and most players would realize that.

Posting like Snarky is easy to fake as scum, which is why it's hard to read him.

I've caught plenty of scum the first time I played with them. I don't need to have played with you before at all, let alone as any particular alignment, to catch you when you're scum. Your insistence on appealing to some kind of bizarre anti-meta is ridiculously scummy. Hopefully other people will pay attention before it's too late.

[Drixx]

Much ado about nothing?

[Drixx]

@Mod: 24 hour V/LA please

[Drixx]

Arishophanes ... you realize that you suggesting we kill an empty slot looks kind of bad combined with yesterday, yeah?

[Drixx]

I mean ... Fragger isn't doing himself any favors, but why are you trying to trap him into a lame "gotcha" Something_Smart? Like ... that's not actual or good scumhunting ... that's just a lame "gotcha" when you pull that "So you ADMIT you're doubtcasting me" crap. Stahp it.

[Drixx]

I mean ... Fragger isn't doing himself any favors, but why are you trying to trap him into a lame "gotcha" Something_Smart? Like ... that's not actual or good scumhunting ... that's just a lame "gotcha" when you pull that "So you ADMIT you're doubtcasting me" crap. Stahp it.

What does "Fragger isn't doing himself any favors" mean, do you think he's scum-aligned or not?

What you've pointed out in the quoted post isn't relevant in my opinion.

Is there really that much confusion over what I'm saying in this game? I've never been constantly asked what I mean.

Fragger is being wagoned, and his posts aren't helping change people's perception of him. He is, therefore, not doing himself any favors.

[Drixx]

Yume is obvscum imo.

VOTE: Yume


@Something_Smart - Your avatar looks a lot like the map that the cartography skill generates in the Eschalon games ... is that by chance what it is?

[Drixx]

Yume is obvscum imo.

VOTE: Yume

Which of Yume's 6 posts lead you to this conclusion? Or is it simply an activity tell like DGB's?

DGB has the reputation she does for a reason. Nobody is interested in my scum reads, so if I'm going to sheep, it will be on DGB. Nothing more or less.

[Drixx]

I read Drixx town

There's the issue.

No. You being an asshole who can't see the obvious and is insulting a PR who just handed scum to the game is the problem. But since I've been saying you're behaving like scum, and you've misrepped the fuck out of me, you're probably just mad that your buddy got outed.

VOTE: Irao

[Drixx]

Okay so that's an interesting choice of defense. We have a claimed investigator and someone who rather than say they visited for good reasons claims they can't visit at all.

Proper move is to lynch the guilty and make scum kill the investigative role, correct? That's how I view it given that scum always lose trading 1-for-1 unless it's LYLO and getting a mislynch means it's not a trade and ummm... pretty sure we're not in that situation, so if Fragg is lying, he's trading himself 1-for-1, which is bad for scum. If he's telling the truth, we get scum today and scum have to spend a night kill on Fragg.

Simple risk vs. reward analysis says to lynch Iraonavp

[Drixx]

Something_Smart - Please read the post before yours. Seriously. You basically just scum claimed.

[Drixx]

No, I didn't. Just because Fragger softed a PR, does that make him town?

It certainly tips the scales in that direction. And it wasn't a "soft" either. You're sitting here arguing that Fragger should have been worried about being night killed ... but why would a town Fragger worry about that when it looked like he would be a top wagon contender day after day? That would be like me being worried about being night killed right now. You're attacking him on absurd grounds when the evidence we have points to him telling the truth.

Now ... who wants town power roles to get mislynched instead of scum having to use a night kill on them?

You see why your nonsensical push to get people not to believe Fragger looks scummy yet?