Touhou UPick 2 - [Game Over]

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hi all,

I'll be catching up today or possibly tomorrow. If there's any relevent info that make this easier please let me know.

Cheers

[VictorDeAngelo]

Quick confession I don't actually know what Touhou is. I looks like anime. Hopefully the lack of knowing the flavour will matter.

Spoiler: First 100 posts

I like Varsoon's claim (8), which is what I would do in that position.

Kagami claims Miller (12). That's always a good reason to lynch a player in my book.

Oh cool Vezokparika is town. One down.

Oh Feirei you old kidder (18).

I don't no clue why Feirei townreads Varoon when it did (24).

It's like open season on claiming during rvs.

Spoiler: "please don't read this if you are scum"
if you are town, answer this question: why did cirno cross the road?

To embrace the spirit of the coldest season.

I take it GIF is some sort of flavour cop. That pretty much guarentees the game can't be flavour gamed.

No clue what Pieguyn messed up here. (70)

Sakura can't seem to vote with her role huh.

PEdit:

Game-state:

Vezok is an IC.
Sakura has used an ability that she claims is a delayed daycop (she gets result tomorrow) on Varsoon.
GIF is Aya, and knows all of our flavors. GIF can also vote for multiple players at once.
GIF has claimed to protect Sakura with a spellcard: 230
GIF has claimed that this was a gambit, and it's actually a selfprotect: 629
RB has claimed a double-voter whose vote builds up until he becomes a suicide king: 390
I have claimed to have some enacted a relationship of some sort with muffin. Muffin is aware that this has happened.

The rest is soft data from posts. I recommend starting with a GIF iso, and looking at when and why he unvotes a player. I agree with most of his reasoning so far.

Cheers. I will probably go through in order and just see what I can gleam before the deadline at this point, but this helps.
Quick question: What's an IC?

[VictorDeAngelo]

innocent child (mod-confirmed town)

Oh yeah, I had already seen that as well.

I think I'll get some coffee in me before I look through any more.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Victor: Welcome to the game. We're also in a neighborhood together, so I'd suggest you check that out.

Already taken a look .

I'm got not getting much off reading, other than the feeling of my eyes glazing over.

@Sakura

- Why did you cop Varsoon?

notscience is giving me bad vibes but I'm not really able to pin down why.

@Kagami

- Why vote Varsoon (219) when there's a delayed cop on him and he had already told you his vote would lock?

@Sakura

- I'm lost what happened to your vote in 220?

Voteless got it.

You know what I'm up to 250, I'm getting a hot cross bun. Maybe that'll give me the energy to get further.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Spoiler: 250 - 450

This game still has a kinda rvs vibe about it, despite all the mechanical talk. All the vague spellcard talk feels active lurky and not progressing the game. Top of that list is Gaiden right now.

I like Pie after the series of posts 343. She's trying to move the game in the right direction.

Don't like RB townreading his wagon so easily, particularly with the PEdit. That said DV scum is a little peculiar.

@TNE

- What's so odd about someone claiming miller at the start of game? Or warning against targetting?

Plus I see a ton of easy townreads and not a lot of scumreads. And the subsequent GiF vote is just silly (416). Currently leaning towards a TNE vote.

VOTE: TheNewEarth

Might as well, probably change in during the next day or anyway. More later.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@victor: why did you vote tne? He hasn't posted in the last few days.

Reasons stated, thus how recently he's posted doesn't matter.

Also checking the activity I have now got more posts than Bitmap, so that's cool.

[VictorDeAngelo]

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME YOUR VOTE WILL BE LOCKED ON ME ALL DAY

Really?

VOTE: GIF

rvs

Also, miller claim bugs me because I don't remember a cop in the last one.

there was. bitmap. 1-shot. used it on me n1 i think

Indeed.

Irrelevent

I'll post tonight.

False hopes

VLA till Monday

PAX EAST DAWGS

Monday has been and gone....

Gonna post more tomorrow. By then, this will probably get to page 10 like last game.

It's tomorrow now so I guess if posts in the next two and half hours or so it'll be true.....

Bitmap's posting in it's entirity, I guess this is why he's currently the leading wagon right.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I shouldn't reread after drinking but fuck it, let's find 450 and rock and roll..........

[VictorDeAngelo]

Spoiler: 451 - 625

Given the game hasn't even been open for 24 hours how do you come to that conclusion?

Wait, I still haven't got past the first day yet, dear god.

I don't fully agree with TNE, Gaiden, bork up top.

I remain unsure on muffin, but I might be able to get a better read soonish (you may already be able to guess how, though that's going to be a surprise for later).

My guess is knockout in three steps.

I agree (assuming Kagami's talking about 471)

I like GiF logic in 483.

488

Sakura's responses to this read pretty damn townie.

Can we not direct night actions Vezo (521). Cheers.

Did ns just call for the IC to be vigged (525). And FYI there's a difference between posting a lot and posting a lot of content. You seem to be only doing the former. I don't the logic of 526 either. And I hate 529 as well. Is this just gonna be a long paragraph about how I hate ns posting.

Nope that was it for that page. And this game seems perpetually stuck to April 8th.

TNE's 572 reads a lot like scum derping.

You're being unusually sensible, varsoon.

Why is this an issue?

And why does Gaiden seemingly just barn everything?

I do like the way that GiF and Varsoon are working together to solve the game but I have a twinge of paranoia that one is scum because of it. And yeah I share with Var but it's wrong to modgame that this means one of us must be scum.

TNE picks up both GiF and Muffin for talking about Vez being scummy (thought I beleive Muffin's post was a misrep) when he overlooked ns legit call for a Vez beef. NS and TNE for scum together perhaps.

I'm up to 625 and feeling tired. You'll have to wait for the weekend for more. Toodles.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Oh cool I created a wagon and I've only read the first half of the game (Also Bitmap reread this game very quickly IMO).

@Sakura

- I missed where Bitmap CC'ed you, could you point to the relevent posts, cheers.

Early morning reading coming.

Also a reminder not to vote for me unless your certain I'm only person you wish to vote today. Anyone not called Cirno or GiF will have their vote stuck and this may make getting anyone else lynched that much tougher,

[VictorDeAngelo]

Spoiler: More random stuff, probably all useless

GiF role still looks fairly townie, and I like how open he is being. The gambit a good townie move in my book.

NS entire defence is that he is town because he'd be even scummier as scum. I hate it when people do that.

Hanasawa feeling ignored after a bucket load of questions feels fake as well. Actually responses are just down the page. Still Hana seems to only occasionally be playing this game. Scum disinterest perhaps?

I actually think I'm gonna need a scumflip to really get a solid handle on this game.

Oh cool another spellcard - and I zero clue what this one does either.

I think GiF vrs Sakura is just gonna end up being a town on town slapfight.

RB putting the double vote on me, particular when he claimed to need the hammer is not sitting right either. Still it could badtown rather than scum.

Hmmm... Bork's 947 is certainly intriguing. Shouldn't GiF and Bork be able to find a scum with their collective knowledge. Thought 950 kinda looks WIFOM, particular with the last point. Still unsure on Bork as much I have liked his posting preceding the claim.

The Bitmap wagon is forming through lurking, which is fine, but this game is about 48 hours old by post 1000.

You know what I'm skimming the rest for now, mainly cause I want to jump into a standard daily at eleven o'clock. I'm happy with a NS, Bitmap or TNE lynch today. Currently I'm sticking with TNE (who has done nothing between 650 to now but proddodge). I will probably try and do a more thorough reread on Day 2 if I can get head into this game.

Feel free to ask me any questions. No guarentess on any satisfactory answers though.

[VictorDeAngelo]

victor, what are your actual reads? there's so much waffle in 1323 that i can't actually tell where you stand on certain people (e.g. i'm unsure what your actual read on RB is, and it looks like you have hanasawa as a scum read but she isn't in the three people you want to lynch today)

If you thought 1323 was waffley then just wait until I start producing proper walls

TNE is my top scumread, hence the vote. I would put Bitmap next, then notscience. Unless something major happens I won't be voting anyone else today and they can be town for now.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Does Bitmap's claim have any influence on your scumread on him right now?

Not really, he think he's scummier than Sakura, but for now I'm happy to wait a night period.

Does anyone know where Hana and TNE is at?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Add notscience to the list of people who haven't posted since I joined this game.

[VictorDeAngelo]

REeading backwrads, on page 53

Want to lynch Victor, purely on OMGUS

Are you aware that this isn't a town attitude.

Let me make this clear for you Victor, because you seem to have a few things mixed up.

1) when you call me scum, you damn well have a good reasoning behind it because let's face it, I eat people alive.

I think your play has been scummy, and threats like this read scummy as hell.

2) One such good reason to call me scum is based on my META. "I hate it when people say x" did I ask for your critique of how I play? No.

Why bring up meta when not once did I claim to have a Meta read on you. And you take me not liking your posting as me thinking it could be scummy FYI.

3) I'm playing to my

town

meta, not my scum.

Well if you say so, I will just blindly trust you.

4) "Oh I can't pin down a reason" and I'm oneo f the 3 people you're intent on lynching today? Nah. Don't by it.

Point to where I said this please.

But you seem incredibly defensive to the slightest bit of pressure. I'm not leaving the TNE wagon but I won't come back to you tomorrow.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why should I?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Wow, your all kinds of angry tonight NS

[VictorDeAngelo]

Isn't it annoying when people don't let you write your own reviews.

[VictorDeAngelo]

btw chucklefuck aggression is another one of my towntells

Sure, cause that's not impossible to fake.

[VictorDeAngelo]

That's how I townread me

You should be able to townread you from your role PM, that's how I do it.

OK, silly answers aside, NS tell who you are willing to lynch and who your not please.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Huh, Ninja'd

[VictorDeAngelo]

Interesting fenscesit on TNE, worth looking at after a flip.

I'll let you revise your stance after your reread to be fair.

Back later

[VictorDeAngelo]

I don't see you doing the same thing to muffin
Do you think I'm a better scum player than muffin or something?

What was this in reference to?

[VictorDeAngelo]

But it doesn't seem to bear any relation to anything I was saying. Why has Muffin suddenly come into it?

[VictorDeAngelo]

oh, ok....

[VictorDeAngelo]

ATTENTION

Today is now a 1v1 of Me and GIF.

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

Works for me.

VOTE: Notscience

If he flips town then I'm fine with vigging/lynching GiF.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Prod dodge

[VictorDeAngelo]

PEdit: catching up later

[VictorDeAngelo]

VOTE: GiF

If that fails, then we should lynch ns today. No way scum have a way to make themselves unlynchable.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Checks out.

Let's lynch NS and end this Day.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well your my number too choice Kagami, should we lynch you instead?

[VictorDeAngelo]

EBWOP: number two, friggin phone

[VictorDeAngelo]

Nope.

then........

[VictorDeAngelo]

.....who?

[VictorDeAngelo]

So it sounds like you don't want to say who you want to lynch?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Axxle's slot is null for me. The whole slot needs a ton more content.

Gaiden is still a leaning scumread for me.

Like GiF, Pim/RBs role isn't scum unless the setup is doing crazy things.

No idea what you mean with the Bork thing.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So are we just a GiF replacement away from being back to a full roster?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Meh, at least now there's no distractions from lynching notscience I guess.

@Mod

- NS hasn't posted in forever. Is he due a prod/replacement yet?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm still in the hold off until the replacements contribute mode. I want to see what they say before putting anything down.

Also notscience being AWOL means no chance to back and forth with him.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well the day aint ending right away so I'll probably get some content before I die. I might use my spellcard anyway for kicks. Varsoon knows what it does (don't tell them - at least not til tomorrow)

Spellcard: Cold Sign "Cold Snap"

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm still in the hold off until the replacements contribute mode. I want to see what they say before putting anything down.

I'm here! Nacho's here! You've got some sort of mallet that's going to kill you, so allow me to humbly suggest that the time for doing shit is nigh.

Well this seems to be your first attempt at a content post, and it comes after my post, so meh.

So you're voting notscience. Sakura's pretty certain notscience is town, blah blah meta blah. You disagree. But you're never addressing Sakura's points. Varsoon addresses the point, they have a good ol' back and forth about meta, but you come in after Sakura's 2068 and all you say is, "Hey, shouldn't notscience be prodded?"

Guy aint posted in forever. And I hardly value the opionion who just vigged me, particularly when all I'm only gonna is the same responses I got earlier about meta and how notscience is so terrible a player he couldn't possibly fake his meta by throwing the odd chucklefuck into the mix.

So thoughts, plz.

There's a thread full of them, go read.

That needs to be fucking rectified, especially with SXTL, Nacho, and Pim not voting. SXTL doesn't seem to think much of the notscience-wagon (2030), but isn't actually saying notscience-town, and isn't saying anything about GiF or anyone else. Nacho is new so gets a 12 hour extension, because I'm a just and merciful god. Pim thinks Victor is scum (yay!), and that GiF is scum, but isn't actually voting for either of them because...dunno.

Considering GiF is unlynchable and voting me has been a bad idea since the start of the game, I don't see how your making a case for Pim out of this.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I don't recall saying I didn't value your opinion before the vigshot.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Your towncase was entirely meta IIRC. And I remember not being impressed.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah, page 56-57 I said why I wasn't buying the whole meta thing.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Though I concede that was to notscience and GiF and not to you.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm still in the hold off until the replacements contribute mode. I want to see what they say before putting anything down

... given your major scum reads are on people who aren't being replaced (or weren't, prior to notscience flaking) why was this holding you back from explaining your reads?

why can't you talk about your notscience / kagami reads?

They are my two strongest scumreads. What more do you want to know?

Sakura and Varsoon are the only people that I actually like as town right now

i'm town

trust me

100% would not lie about this here[/quote]

FYI I'm 100% town as well.

And you

can

trust this since at this moment I have zero incentive to lie?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Quotetags are hard

I'm still in the hold off until the replacements contribute mode. I want to see what they say before putting anything down

... given your major scum reads are on people who aren't being replaced (or weren't, prior to notscience flaking) why was this holding you back from explaining your reads?

why can't you talk about your notscience / kagami reads?

They are my two strongest scumreads. What more do you want to know?

Sakura and Varsoon are the only people that I actually like as town right now

i'm town

trust me

100% would not lie about this here

FYI I'm 100% town as well.

And you

can

trust this since at this moment I have zero incentive to lie.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The why will take some time. But fortunately for you I have some time this afternoon.

Any reason you never followed up on the GiF/Pim question?

I'll answer it anyway, I'm assuming this game isn't bastardly and giving multiple votes to scum or letting them become suddenly unlynchable is bad design.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why notscience (I guess this is now the poor sap who replaces into the notscience slot) is scum - part 1


His opening post contained no vote, no real content and instead vaguely said, why is no one questioning these guys. He then proceeds not to question us. He then does the same thing in 45. Given I'm town and Varsoon has investigated town it's seems clear he's simply looking to stir up trouble without getting his hands dirty.

He also questions the Kagami cop claim here and after the first few pages never follows it up again.

129 - Naked vote on Gaiden. He had discussed a load procedual stuff in his earlier post and not mentioned anything about Gaiden's play at this point (and this vote is far too late to be brushed off as rvs)

I don't buy into you-town because I'm not going to let 295 happen again

I don't buy into GIF town because Aronis could vote multiple people in frozen (as scum)

I don't buy into muffin town becausae I have no scum baseline to compare him to

I don't buy into Kagami town because I don't like the miller claim

I don't buy into bork town for the same reason I don't buy into muffin town

I don't buy into feirei town because he hasn't really done much other than lock down a vote

pedit- I miiiiiiiiiiiight be able to buy into pie-town

Notscience essentially not willing to accept any town reads early on. I don't mind that aspect but the fact he is desperately trying to find any reason to dismiss the townreads at this point in the game reads scummy.

198 - Says players with funky votes are scum when five players have been revealed to have funky votes already in the game.

200 - translation "Hey guys anyone want to go after RB early? I'd vote him if you guys do. Who's with me?"

213 - This jump on the early GiF was also very opportunistic. When you iso him you can see how hard he is trying to keep a low profile early on actually (I hadn't picked on that in my initial read through). He does not want to tread on toes at this point.

234, 241, 281 etc will show how much fluff he's produced. Don't the high postcount fool you, he seems quite low in terms of actual content.

Finally 317 (number 35 in his ISO) he produces a meaningful post. Well he takes the inititive and votes RB. I guess when ns is concerned we need a low bar. No doubt someone will step in here and start waffling about his so called town meta for umpteenth time.

I personally take 315's "I do this as town too" as a scumslip. I know some people disagree with that already.

Two quick asides since they came up:

Because Nacho and mollie and majiffy aren't in this game

Well we got one of them. Two to go.

Also glad to see you can't read the thread I've already said that Feirei likely has Cirno

pedit

^ trufax

I have no clue what a Cirno is but I don't have it. If that helps anyone then cool.

Anyhow back to the actual case.

Finally we get to the useful content portion (enjoy it - it doesn't last long). A selection

Feirei feels different tis game compared to last game. I have to determine if his presence here compared to last game is because he's town and isn;t distracted by RL or because he wants to actually assume the ruse of pro-townity as scum this game.

I guess I'm biased here since I know frei was town, next:

Gaiden came out with his character in his first post of the last game and didn't this time but I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative. I don't like his claim this game though- he claimed 1shot rolecop even with Sakura's cop claim. At the same time, I liked his latest post, but it's kinda meh regardless.

Can anyone spot his reasons for his Gaiden suspicion here cause I can't.

Varsoon in 295 made a big deal about how not RVSing made him town, but he didn't here. I need more games to look through, to see if holding his vote is alignment indicative. He also (successfully) manipulated people (me) into not using their hide. I don't know, I don't particularly like his reaction to Sakura's "cop" on him either.

I don't understand his questioning vezok's thought process either.

The highlighted is because ns has been questioning Vez's thought process for most the game yet he calls ns out for it here.

I don't really know what to do regarding muffin, i'll come back to him later

Missed this before. I'll see if he does come back to him.

I don't feel the same GIF here as I did in 295, I got the sense he was actually trying to solve things and discpute them there whereas here it's just kinda going through the motions. Like when I posted a shitposty RVS bullshit on page like 4 he yelled at me for it but most of my ISO here has kinda been meh and he hasn't really yelled at me until I said I didn't have a strong townread yet.

I was reading through borks posting, and I don't get where GIF got his "obvtown" read on bork from (granted, if GIF is scum that might explain it). I liked his stances re:me but even then part of me wonders if the scum-tactic coming into this game is to try and get an early wagon off on me before I get non-lynchable but that's my tinfoil theory so I'm not putting much stake in it (plus scumhunting is bad)

Again the more you look through his iso the more you realise that ns has spent a lot of time questioning townreads and very little time questioning actual players. Unless it's role related of course.

Kagami's a wading pool of null too.

If this was a comprehensive reads list, a comment like this would be OK. But this post wasn't so why add this. Keep this in mind for after ns flips scum (and in the event he doesn't disregard) for the Kagami case.

I still think notscience is scum and I want him to post more.

Bull's reaction to mine is bullshit

One of the weird voting styles is scum though.

I think any vig should kill vezok

Who agrees

I'm about 20% cooler anyways

So all the replacements will look at this and go, oh so this happened before Vez was confirmed IC. No! This is notscience calling for the IC to be vigged. And he's actual serious as 529 shows. And 657.

I need to get out in the sun. I will resume this later.

PEDIT:

you can answer the other question as well if you want, but given they fall under the category of people who are being replaced or have recently been replaced, and you said you were in a state of holding off til replacements contribute more, i asked about the ones that were still in the game (at least prior to fakegod saying ns is being replaced)

I was mostly avoiding producing a ton of content while people simultaneously replacing in and catching. But given but short time and the fact that we seem to be constantly replacing the playerbase right now, I don't mind as much.

I'm assuming this game isn't bastardly and giving multiple votes to scum or letting them become suddenly unlynchable is bad design

neither of these are outside the scope of what i'd expect from a scum role this game

fakegod gave scum some measures to win easily in lylo last game, i expect something similar in this game (probably more in this game since it seems a bit more power heavy than the last one)

whether or not it's bad design is questionable. it's role madness - it's going to be majorly swingy regardless.

(plus i've lost to functionally unlynchable scum before - it's not fun)

I don't about Fakegod's setups before but I do people the benefit of the doubt of assuming the setup is doing stupid things. If it does, well no harm in losing to bad design and you simply ignore that mods games in the future. If there are swingy measure for the scum at lylo then maybe it's good thing I'm dying tonight, lol.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Maybe Malakittens wants to play scum.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what, I'm just going ignore Sakura from this point on.

[VictorDeAngelo]

You know what Sakura is actually right about one thing, ignoring her isn't really pro town. I should probably take a look at her before I die as well. But notscience/Kagami first.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why notscience (I guess this is now the poor sap who replaces into the notscience slot) is scum - part 2

One of {Feirei/Varsoon}

Seems pretty convenient that of the whole playerlist, the two he says scum is BETWEEN just so happens to also be a neighborhood. Almost as if he found out beforehand that was a neighborhood.

This accusation against GiF is weird. How would GiF have known that Feirei/Varsoon were a neighbourhood as either alignment.

Speaking of our neighbourhood 669 is notscience trying to stir up trouble again. Because if two people are in a neighbourhood together one must scum. Wouldn't it be ironic if ns was in a neighbourhood himself and his neighbourhood buddy is killed and flips town.

Then a ton more posts about people not looking town. Cause the whole game is scum.

Given how badly notscience wants to wagon GiF I half wonder if he might be third party with a role that needs to kill GiF (i.e. some sort of hitman variant). He seems keen for GiF to die but never really thrown weight or effort behind a case and he seems really keen not to step on toes until he tries emulating his town meta later on.

Yeah he does it again in 1197 - Could that be why he's buddying everyone not scumreading him.

1389 - I also loled at him trying to use Varsoon to warn me off him.

Page 56-58 are good to read just for notscience asking for a metaread off people and not getting the right responses. I get the feeling of silver rage off him, in the sense that he seems to desperately playing to his meta (just look at how much his meta comes up in this game - it's unnatural) and not getting the instant towncred he wants.

1449 - The hop on the tne wagon because Sakura asked me to not cause I have scumread which I need accountable for later post. Classic scumplay really.

1581 - The 1v1 post. I really want to know from Mala if there is any info behind this because I was never convinced. A 1v1 without info at this junction certainly isn't townie.

@Mala

- Do you have any reason to want GiF lynched today?

I'll see what that gets me.

Anyway round 2 of sealed event start so I'll get back to this later.

[VictorDeAngelo]

471 < 587 right, or is did my Maths course lie to me?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Considering you don't seem to know anything about touhou then let me instruct you.

As I've said before I wouldn't know what a Touhou was if I met one on the street.

GiF as well as many others here know a lot about touhou flavor
GiF knew pre-game everyone's flavor character, and obviously knew Varsoon was Cirno and you were Letty.
Anyone that knows those 2 character will immediately think both are in a neighborhood as a guess.
And it also just so happens:

We've got a neighborhood together, actually. We've got abilities we're both immune to.

That this post happened before the one you quoted.

Ok, so I hadn't realised this game was so susceptible to flavour gaming. Even so this really means that notsciences accusation is still invalid. GiF knowing about the neighbourhood was not alignment indicitive therefore the attack was forced.

So you clearly haven't actually read anything in the thread and you're just tunnel visioning on notscience because you're scum aiming for a mislynch.

Yeah I haven't read the thread and all those comments in my ISO about the thread were guesswork. I am that awesome.

P-Edit: The post you quoted is 663.

Yes but the part notscience quoted was 471.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Victor should have death too~

You got your wish, one more dead townie for the pile coming up.

FUCKING HELL VICTOR STOP.

FUCKING HELL MALAKITTENS NO!!!!

Also I think you should reveal whether you have info on GiF before the day is out or whether notscience was lying about that as well.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The 1v1 that notscience proposed at the start of day suggested he had info. Did he?

[VictorDeAngelo]

The 1v1 is just notscience being notscience (Tho i've never ever seen notscience engage in a 1v1 as scum)

Was I asking you Sakura?

[VictorDeAngelo]

No but I just hope everyone else can see what your doing.

[VictorDeAngelo]

What I'm doing is defending notscience's town meta from scum like you that come and try to disprove it.

I'm not doing anything to try and argue about the meta. It's irrelevent given how self aware ns has been about it. I'll present my case and the rest of the town can decide what they want to do.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why notscience (

I guess this is now the poor sap who replaces into the notscience slot

Malakittens) is scum - part 3

I think I'm nearly done so fingers crossed this will be short.

1612 - Tried to attack Gaiden over the quickhammer despite Gaiden hammering on the day of the deadline. Classic scummove.

1613 - Again instead casing a player he puts the responsibility on another (in this case Pie).

1617 - First time he mentioned me being scum here (not surprising giving how much I'd pressing him and the fact that everyone has going after him was already town cleared). Says there's a case coming later. I don't remember him presenting a case (I don't remember anyone presenting a case against now I come to think of it. Oh well). Either way maybe I'm wrong and there's a case waiting for me later in the thread.

1635 - Now there's a case for me and Varsoon being scumbuddies.

1636 - Talks about how he presented his case to Pie first and Pie agreed. Now look at 1626, he placed the entire case at Pie's feet. Town would have no trouble putting their own name to case right. In fact wouldn't the most natural town thing to do be to put your own case down and then say where Pie agreed or disagreed.

Flavour wise I don't know if destroying spellcards would be considered townie but I would expect more on a scumrole. That said I keep being warned this set up not be your average game of mafia.

1768 - Accuses me of voting TNE without reading the game when I had 3 posts of comments with more content than he had produced all game. Then tries to paint my choosing to vote him over GiF as suddenly scummy when he had commenting multiple times the day before about my scumread on him (i.e. he couldn't have failed to notice it). I guess this two poor lies constitute his case.

The rest is mostly setup talk. He still wants GiF dead he just isn't really putting any effort into it. I reckon I'm done with ns now. Other players can wait til tomorrow, I'm off to bed.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Man you are lucky ns is sick and replaced out because he'd be screaming his head off at you because he hates when people accuse him of scum when he's not and your reads have been so bad. You'll be sitting in the dead QT shaking your head when you see afterall that we are town and you hardpushed a town since you replaced in.

I can't defend myself from my pred's actions, so how about you actually give something that I have done scummy. You are attacking a slot who's owner is not here to defend themselves against anymore.

I'm not trying to hold personally responsible here. It's your slot now but I haven't got anything against you or your play. I had a strong scumread on the slot before you replaced in. Giving I'm dead tonight there's like a few days til the deadline I can only present my case and hope it's acted sooner rather than later. I'm not expecting you to be able to channel ns and explain away his action but I've been told to produce my reasoning and here it is.

And truthfully I would like ns to be here to respond, but well we can't always get what we want.

So if it makes you feel better in the half the day you've played I haven't noticed anything particularly scummy about your play. I'm sure your a nice person in a bad spot. Sorry about that.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Good morning all, good to see the game still going. Thoughts coming soon.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Eh, maybe I don't have as much on Kagami as I thought. The miller claim always makes me suspicious of a player. As does the early and constant ns townclearing. The reads list in 1721 seems off.

Actually I think the issue with Kagami is he needs to contribute more.

@Kagami

- Who are your top townreads?
Who are your top scumreads?
Given your unproven Miller claim do you think you should be kept around to lylo?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Jesus Sakura has like 300 posts. This is going to take ages.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And unless I missed something I can't find anything resembling a case against me here either.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Did you mean to colour the IC red there Muffin?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well your opinion I guess.

With GiF and me off the table who is your preferred lynch right now Muffin?

[VictorDeAngelo]

VictorDeAngelo Feirei - Don't know why this slot has townreads, but I guess it doesn't matter
Magua Axxle Hanasawa - I don't understand why this slot has townreads either.
Pim Raging Bull - Play is scummish, though role seemed town to me. Only feirei on the L-1 wagon seems possibly scum.
vezokpiraka - Godfather Child

Not Townest

I assume my slot is getting townreads cause it's a town slot. But since your pooling me with the innocent child, the double voter (with the possibility of more) and basically the least active slot in the game, I don't feel too bad.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So people are voting the double voter. Being wagoned doesn't make you scum all of a sudden does it.

Considering RB/Pim's claim about gaining extra votes is testable why is no one testing it?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Wouldn't such a role be broken on scum though.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also I wouldn't say this wagon is all town:

GuyInFreezer, Feirei, zMuffinMan, notscience, pieguyn, SXTLHGaiden, vezokpiraka

[VictorDeAngelo]

PEdit: That should be almost all town

[VictorDeAngelo]

Wouldn't such a role be broken on scum though.

there are ways around it. making people unvoteable, town governor, 1shot unlynchable, etc.

I could see those working with a simple double voter, but if Pim's role could really up her votecount then it sounds really OP for scum.

And if RB was scum why would he admit aspect off the bat anyway. The best thing to would be to keep the information to himself, and then perhaps hold off hammering just before lylo and then take advantage. Giving the town a heads up serves no purpose.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also was GiF replaced by someone or not?

[VictorDeAngelo]

if RB was scum why would he admit aspect off the bat anyway. The best thing to would be to keep the information to himself, and then perhaps hold off hammering just before lylo and then take advantage. Giving the town a heads up serves no purpose

even apart from the fact that people don't always think about things optimally, in the scenario he lied about his role and simply claimed "double voter" or something, he could potentially get caught in a lie at some point prior to lylo and screw himself over

(plus, really, a double voter scum is no different to a triple voter scum in lylo and it's not even an advantage if, for example, town has a method of nullifying his vote or just outright vig killing him if he did that)

The lynch threshold doesn't seem to change though with the extra votes. And if the idea that the town has two hated players while the scum have multivoters just feels insanely unbalanced. Even if there is an odd spellcard around to stop it I remain skeptical because of how swingy a setup this could end being.

like yes, it's potentially a powerful role for scum if all goes well and he lives to lylo in a game with multiple cop investigations and other abilities that could screw him over, but what exactly do you think scum has to counter town power?

Well we know Bitmap had an alignment investigative ability. The only other one claimed was Sakura's and that had yet to be proven. An odd killrole might exist as well but if anything that might just stop scum brazingly hammering.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well who knows, maybe the game's already lost. There are four dead townies, if Pim ends up being town (and really the lynch seems to be going ahead with the same level of thought as the new earth lynch yesterday is) then the game is probably going to be a scum blow out. But hell I have nothing to lose at this point.

[VictorDeAngelo]

UNVOTE: Malakittens

I'm all ears Mala.

[VictorDeAngelo]

There are four dead townies, if Pim ends up being town (and really the lynch seems to be going ahead with the same level of thought as the new earth lynch yesterday is) then the game is probably going to be a scum blow out

ok, i think you're exaggerating here, but how would this change if notscience-slot is lynched and ends up being town? or <insert name of any other player>

and what exactly are you proposing we do?

i think RB-slot is scum. i went over my reasons while RB was still in the game; since pim has replaced in all he's done is prod dodge with promises of content (and fakegod could potentially be looking for yet another replacement soon if he doesn't pick up the prod). i don't think that slot is town.

Give me a case to vote Pim and I'll vote Pim. But I don't see any reason to see this slot as scum right now. And I'm only pointing out how voting inactive players has unproductive so far this game.

[VictorDeAngelo]

did you think RB looked town?

The better question is surely do I think RB looked like scum. The answer is I can't remember anything scummy he did. (and I'm not looking back over it on my phone)

do you think pim looks town?

Pim's been inactive. If I had more content maybe I could read the role.

[VictorDeAngelo]

The better question is surely do I think RB looked like scum. The answer is I can't remember anything scummy he did

the questions essentially lead to the same answer so whatevs

Well only if we simplify everything.

i *really* don't want to put together a case on RB unless i have to :<

Well I guess we see. Obviously I'm not going to vote for a guy unless I see a case.

it's a lot of time and effort when the "case" could be found scattered across my ISO

It's a lot of time and effort for me too.

tl;dr of it is the way he was scum hunting came across as really fake - most of the questions he was asking lacked direction or point, most of the statements he was making lacked any real analysis, and the stances he was taking on certain things didn't look town

That could applied to half the game honestly. Including the three players {notscience, Kagami, Sakura} I have already singled out.

if you want some quick examples off the top of my head, stuff like questioning why a cop didn't investigate a miller, after calling them both town, then proceeded to suggest they were buddies (iirc). awkward questions to me about what i thought of feirei's(your) vote-sticking stuff rather than questioning me about what i think of feirei(you).

The cop bit is weird but could just easily be derpy town.

and you know that thing you called notscience scummy for at the start of today (questioning gaiden's hammer). that's what RB did sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Well I guess that's a scumpoint in both the ns and RB column. In fact funnily enough so is the question my role.

also not really sure what a case is going to do if you haven't really read his posts or formed an opinion on them (which is odd given you have opinions on like... everyone else)

I have his posts, as anyone bothering to check through my ISO would see. Frankly I feel like I wasted my time reading so much of this game to catch up when no one seems to listen.

[VictorDeAngelo]

i wasn't sure whether you had since the only comment i remember you making about RB (all game) was something about him town reading his wagon easily

And to be fair that's pretty the scummiest thing the role has done. I certainly couldn't provide a behaviour case anywhere near as long as ns's for RB.

[VictorDeAngelo]

(apart from the stuff you've said about his role, i mean)

The cop bit is weird but could just easily be derpy town

*shrug* just about anything could arguably be derpy town, though really i think that's more likely to come from a scum mindset than a town mindset

Fair point.

[VictorDeAngelo]

No rush, I'll be asleep myself but that point anyway.

[VictorDeAngelo]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[VictorDeAngelo]

I read Magua thinking me and Mala were scumbuddies and laughed.

@Gaiden

- You should do something fun, like tell who you want to lynch today. Also given you new status as a double voter, what your views on Pim's role being scum?

@Mala

- If I was being childish I'd OMGUS vig Sakura but if I was being a grown up I'd vig you. Probably hit scum either way though.

Still waiting for Sakura to turn up and post a case against me. Convenient time for her to take a holiday from this game.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Can I get a big ol' readslist off of you with a sentence or so detailing each read?

Town

Vezok - IC
Pim - The run up feels too similar to the TNE run up Day 1 (inactive player, little reasoning, general why not feel).
Muffin - Seems to be the most engaged scumhunter in the game.
Varsoon - Got a clean investigation Night 1 (probably nullified if Sakura is scum though). Sticking by this guns and not being pushed around which tends to be a good sign.
Nachomamma8 - I liked Bork's posting. Nacho has seemed to have read the game. Don't agree with all his reads, but townclearing half the playerbase on entering the game makes me feel that he's town as well. I would want to see more before I was certain enough to townblock him though.
GuyInFreezer - No great feelings off town on this spot but it's been so long waiting for a replacement I've almost forgotten that this guy is in the game.
Magua - The slot has been dead for most the game. Nothing Magua done thusfar has made me think he was town, but other than the bizarre me and ns being scumbuddies bit there aren't a ton of red flags.
Kagami - Less scummy than I thought on initial inspection but the miller claim still seems like
Gaiden - I actually thought this role was replaced. That's little impact Gaiden has had on this game. The whole mirroring vote thing day 1 was really weird.
Sakura - Not really liking her play, bad spot on the TNE wagon. Still waiting to know why she killed me with no claim (reckless at the very least)
Malakittens - Didn't like her predecessors play.

Scum

I think drilling Sakura for a case is a good idea, too, so keep at it.

If she doesn't produce it by days end I hope people keep on at her for it tomorrow as well.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Mod

- Any news on GiF's replacement/Pim yet?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Magua, have you read

my

comments towards the notscience/Malakittens slot?

Even if you were misguided enough to think I was scum, there is no logical reason to think I would be ns/mala scumbuddy.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Magua, have you read my comments towards the notscience/Malakittens slot?

How you read

my

comments towards the notscience slot? Because you clearly didn't think my town case on him was good enough and continued to push him, there's only scum motivation on discrediting someone's town case on another slot, vezok and Varsoon are just scum with a town role PM.

Oh, look whose sticking her nose where it doesn't belong again. Why am I not surprised?

[VictorDeAngelo]

And let's face facts, the scum case on ns is far better than any towncase you made and deep down I think you know it.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And your not even slightly concerned by the fact that ns has constantly mentioned/relied on meta to explain away ton of his scummy play?

And the fact he is clearly very self aware of his meta?

PEdit:

Also from all people townreading notscience i'm the only one that has bothered to make a town case on him, why are you singling me out then? Oh right, you're scum so you have to.

Nice mudslinging, but I never singled you out.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I hadn't realised that you, Muffin and Nacho were the only people townreading notscience.

Well in that case it is entirely coincidental, as my reasons for scumreading you are unrelated to your towncases on ns as you can see.

BTW, what's your opinion on Magua thinking me and Malakittens are scumbuddies?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also it's cute that if you think i'm scum you aren't trying to lynch me, remember I did say the only way to make you live through the night is by lynching me?

I don't know if that's true but I worked out as soon as you said it that any attempt to lynch today would be easily batted away. It's frustrated but that's my lot.

Still you refuse to provide a case, not bother doing anything right now but snipe from the sidelines and you still have the whole town!Bitmap cc you Day 1 to deal with so hopefully there should be enough to see you lynched tomorrow.

[VictorDeAngelo]

My scumread on you comes from the fact that i don't like how you're handwaving my town case on notscience based on "oh he's meta aware" and dismissing how much i know that even if he's meta aware it's pretty hard (read: impossible) for him to fake it, while this was happening another game where i was in hydra with him was also ongoing and we were scum and he pretty much left me alone in the hydra despite me calling for him for help on the scum qt, while he kept posting here and being active, so it's clear that this is his town game and he STILL can't fake it as scum.

That's it. I guess I should have expected it to be somewhat pathetic. Otherwise you would have tried to get lynched instead of taking the easy route. I bet you thought that my spate of inactivity prior the spellcard might mean I would quietly into the night. Suck for you to be wrong I guess.

I addressed the whole meta thing. I don't put much stock behind meta reads, and even less when they are about players who are acutely aware of their own meta. For instance, trying to pass off your own use of the word "chucklefuck" as a towntell shows that notscience is trying to use people's knowledge of his meta to force a townread.

Furthermore, assuming notscience is not a complete idiot, he would be trying to improve his own meta to stop getting easily found as scum. I can't be bothered to track down the post but he even went as far as to point out that scum!ns is know for not actively participating in games. The idea that he is incapable of using such knowledge to adapt is, well, frankly insulting to notscience's intelligence. If I was aware of such an obvious scumtell I would have no trouble fixing it.

Varsoon was also there so i'm astonished as why he thinks this is scum notscience.

Me and my neighbour aren't the only ones who have dismissed your meta case IIRC. But I guess by this time toMorrow you'll start mentioning Varsoon's name and the word godfather.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I bet you thought that my spate of inactivity prior the spellcard might mean I would quietly into the night. Suck for you to be wrong I guess.

Why do you think my point on you is that you were inactive? my point is you that you are blatantly wrong about notscience despite me mentioning it multiple times, but now you're just pot shotting coz you dont know what else to push and i'll just think this is just an attempt at trying to piss me off than actual scum hunting.

I've done a ton of scumhunting since replacing in and any attempt to say otherwise is pure slander. And let's be frank if you actually thought I was scum, you wouldn't give two shits what I was saying, would you.

And considering I'm scumreading you, why would expect me to listen to you anyway? Your logic here would be bewildering if you weren't scum.

For instance, trying to pass off your own use of the word "chucklefuck" as a towntell shows that notscience is trying to use people's knowledge of his meta to force a townread.

This is the first time i've seen notscience use that word and i'm not sure why you even bring it up, guess you're running out of ammo huh.

Well he said it. It's not my fault you've neither read notscience posts nor my case against him.

Furthermore, assuming notscience is not a complete idiot, he would be trying to improve his own meta to stop getting easily found as scum. I can't be bothered to track down the post but he even went as far as to point out that scum!ns is know for not actively participating in games. The idea that he is incapable of using such knowledge to adapt is, well, frankly insulting to notscience's intelligence. If I was aware of such an obvious scumtell I would have no trouble fixing it.

Emotions form a part of some people's meta, emotion is hard to fake and the fact that notscience hates playing as scum and has shown as much on both games i've played with him as scum (one as a different player and another as hydra), once again using this fact as just because he's self-aware but not showing me any scum games where he's faked as such is laughable, if he hasn't faked it then it means he might as well be town here.

Like I said there has to be a first time for everything. And why should I listen to your simply "oh it's town ns" over the ton of scummy play in the thread. It would be naive to trust you and your metaread here as far I can see.

Me and my neighbour aren't the only ones who have dismissed your meta case IIRC. But I guess by this time toMorrow you'll start mentioning Varsoon's name and the word godfather.

What makes you think i'd think Varsoon is a godfather? He might as well just be town who hates using meta and sux at acknoledging meta cases just because he doesn't like being wrong.

Curious that you never made that assumption about me.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Curious that you never made that assumption about me.

Because i don't have a cop inno on you. Your attempts of trying to bait me into making the same statement as notscience is noted.

What statement?

And why note it. I mean serious what possible reason would you have at this point to make notes on my play. Are you simply going through the motions of trying to look town or what?

Like I said there has to be a first time for everything.

Why do you think this is the first time considering he's been meta aware for like half a year and still unable to replicate it?

How do you know it's been meta aware for so long?

And considering I'm scumreading you, why would expect me to listen to you anyway? Your logic here would be bewildering if you weren't scum.

Yet you are listening to me and replying to my posts anyway and you still aren't voting me nor notscience so... then?

Oh yeah, Mala begged me for a chance a while ago and never followed up. Well I guess I might as well....

VOTE: Malakittens

[VictorDeAngelo]

How do you know it's been meta aware for so long?

He mentions it in every single game, for a long while.

Better question, why would you assume I would know any of this?

h yeah, Mala begged me for a chance a while ago and never followed up. Well I guess I might as well....

I don't get your logic

>You think i'm scum
>You are dying tonight
>Your only hope of surviving tonight is to lynch me
>You rather lynch mala over me.

Simple, I don't need to survive to win. And I believe that any attempt to get you lynched today could be dismissed as scum!Victor trying to save his own skin. Tomorrow I will be townconfirmed and you'll be in trouble then.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Better question, why would you assume I would know any of this?

Because apparently you know notscience so much that you know he's perfectly capable of faking this and is in fact scum.

No I know nothing of what ns is and is not capable metawise - hence meta has not featured into my case. I have built my case solely out of the content of this thread and see no reason to consider anything else.

Simple, I don't need to survive to win. And I believe that any attempt to get you lynched today could be dismissed as scum!Victor trying to save his own skin. Tomorrow I will be townconfirmed and you'll be in trouble then.

If you really believe im going to flip scum why is it bad that i do?
But you know what? that seems like a good idea

Mallet "Grow even bigger!"

Vote: Sakura Hana x2

There, i dare you to get me lynched. I'm even wasting a spellcard to help you do so, and a spellcard I was planning to surprise scum with on LyLo.

If this is real spellcard why waste it here. If I was scum it would be the stupiest waste of a good spellcard. I assume your trolling me, but I want confirmation.

@FakeGod

- Is this a real spellcard?

Hey town if you think Victor is town then lynch me, it's the only way for him to survive the night and i'm already out of any useful spellcards plus being voteless won't help town anyway.

If this is true then I will call for a lynch on Sakura today.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@FakeGod

- Also a votecount?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I can't possibly see the town motivation in springing a double-vote enabling spellcard to vote self.
It's the sort of play I would make,
what the fuck.

The problem is I can't see any scum motivation either. The move just seems to playing against any wincon she could have.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Although I guess Sakura can now "accidentally" quickhammer if she "forgets" she has two votes.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So it's real. And if Sakura is just going to do a load of crazy anti-town shit then fuck it, I'd rather kill her today and survive the night.

VOTE: Sakura

[VictorDeAngelo]

Remember to lynch Sakura tomorrow.

Cheers.

[VictorDeAngelo]

And Malakittens.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Hilariously it has been over a week since Pim posting here.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Uh, thanks.

[VictorDeAngelo]

So much for me being dead today. Anyone want to explain why Sakura's unstoppable kill was stopped because I have no explanation. And scummy players flipping town. This game is the worst.

Theorey time:

Eight players so the scumteam is less than four and I would be shocked if a game this size had a two man scumteam so I'm betting three scum plus one third party. Given the number kills per night, Serial Killer is looking a likely bet.

Either way this is probably lylo.

@Mod

- Is GiF being replaced. Cause unless the role is, it probably isn't worth putting any more effort into this trainwreck

PEdit: I don't know either Muffin

[VictorDeAngelo]

How does everyone flip town?
I am the one who shoot sakura. I was 75 % sure she'll flip scum or at the very least clear some confusion.
My vig also roleblocks the target, but I'm not sure if that interfered with sakura's ability.

Also out of 8 players, probably 4 scums. Me and varsoon are town. That leaves 6 people. We have a 66% of just getting a random scum.

My hero.

Victor remains scum, needs to die. I am not voting anyone besides Victor today. I'm really tempted to vote him right now but

YOLO

lylo.

I don't even know anymore about

this cruel jest called life

everyone else. Taking out vezok

even though he's a scum innocent child

and Varsoon, I want it to be Victor and GiF and Nacho but my heart tells me that wanting doesn't make it so. And I'm kinda too depressed at this point to care. Maybe caring-time will come around tomorrow.

Maybe.

I would protest but I was promised death and signed up to a few games based on not being alive today so if your gonna vote me might as well be quick.

For the record though I'm town.

And if there's a case I will respond if I have time.

And given a ton of scumreads flip town your now one of my strongest scumreads so congratulations (sigh, the one thing I hate ms if the lack decent smilies, mtgsalvation has so many cool ones I could use here by comparison).

the only thing i could *maybe* see being a fake-claim is if she wasn't actually strongman+strongwilled like she claimed and that was just a gambit to prevent scum from blocking her (in which case, regardless of whether scum roleblocked her, vezok's claimed action would have saved victor)

though even that i don't think is all too likely because she made a big deal out of lynching her being the only way to prevent it going through

soooooooooooooooooooo

massive *shrug*

I can't make head nor tail or anything Sakura did at the end of yesterday and I reckon she will end being just big distraction at this point.

yeah well

half the game replaced out yesterday and that was a really cool and fun thing to have happen

and so far the lynches have been like

some dude: "hey i think TNE is scum"
everyone else: "YA WE ALL AGREE LET'S LYNCH HIM"
me: "hey i think RB-slot is scum"
everyone else: "YA WE ALL AGREE LET'S LYNCH HIM"

which, in hindsight, should have been setting off massive alarm bells for me, but i thought maybe he was a sacrificial lamb offered to appease the bus gods

Some guy

The worst part is, most people who were sheeping on these wagons have ended up being town.

I'm just skipping around pages atm.

OMG PAGE 80 Victor looks like SUCH a scumfuck.

But I've been so townie this game.

(I can say scumfuck, right?)

Everytime you call me a scumfuck I kill a puppy. Hope you can live with that.

@Sakura: I guess I see what your'e saying, but I just can't rely on meta in that way. It's too exploitable.

The thing that's wrong with your argument is that "If he can do that as town he can certainly do that as scum" if such a thing was true then there wouldnt ever be a way to townread someone other than cop innos and ICs, I could pretty easily go ahead and say "You may be playing to your town meta to fool me" but i've got an inno on you, which means I know you're town. Until notscience proves to me that he's capable of emulating his town meta, then his town meta is still solid, until then take a bit of occam's razor and think the simplest solution of notscience playing to his town meta isn't because he's emulating his town meta as scum, but simply, because he's town.

Is this a thing? Varsoon is cop confirmed?

Well he was cop confirmed but it was by Sakura "Victor's dying and there's absolutely no of stopping it save lynching me" Hana

Well the day aint ending right away so I'll probably get some content before I die. I might use my spellcard anyway for kicks. Varsoon knows what it does (don't tell them - at least not til tomorrow)

Spellcard: Cold Sign "Cold Snap"

What did this do?

Create all kinds of cool WIFOM for the scumteam I hope.

Can I get a big ol' readslist off of you with a sentence or so detailing each read?

Town

Vezok - IC
Pim - The run up feels too similar to the TNE run up Day 1 (inactive player, little reasoning, general why not feel).
Muffin - Seems to be the most engaged scumhunter in the game.
Varsoon - Got a clean investigation Night 1 (probably nullified if Sakura is scum though). Sticking by this guns and not being pushed around which tends to be a good sign.
Nachomamma8 - I liked Bork's posting. Nacho has seemed to have read the game. Don't agree with all his reads, but townclearing half the playerbase on entering the game makes me feel that he's town as well. I would want to see more before I was certain enough to townblock him though.
GuyInFreezer - No great feelings off town on this spot but it's been so long waiting for a replacement I've almost forgotten that this guy is in the game.
Magua - The slot has been dead for most the game. Nothing Magua done thusfar has made me think he was town, but other than the bizarre me and ns being scumbuddies bit there aren't a ton of red flags.
Kagami - Less scummy than I thought on initial inspection but the miller claim still seems like
Gaiden - I actually thought this role was replaced. That's little impact Gaiden has had on this game. The whole mirroring vote thing day 1 was really weird.
Sakura - Not really liking her play, bad spot on the TNE wagon. Still waiting to know why she killed me with no claim (reckless at the very least)
Malakittens - Didn't like her predecessors play.

Scum

I think drilling Sakura for a case is a good idea, too, so keep at it.

If she doesn't produce it by days end I hope people keep on at her for it tomorrow as well.

The whole bottom of your list flipped town. What do?

Well Vez is IC, Varsoon is cleared and Muffin is the only guy putting any effort in (and if he ends up being scum, then fuck he deserves the win more than any of the actual townies at this point) so that leaves for players and three scum. I would lynch in the order of:

Magua -> Kagami -> Freything -> Nacho

at this point.

I'm back after a long weekend.
Victor's card killed our QT.
With the flips, I'm back to square one.

All true neighbourinho.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well you accused me, why not others?

[VictorDeAngelo]

O, and sorry, but I'm not the serial killer you guys are looking for.

Yeah, cause the SK will never lie

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah it's annoying that the back end of the TNE wagon is all town. Especially since most of them went on without any real reason.

GiF is voting so much that just follow the votes is of no use. Assuming Sakura didn't embellish with her cop result and Varsoon is godfather I kinda feel like GiF should be scum just cause an all town wagon here would be pretty bad. As for everyone else:

Hana was voting no one (and barely in the game)
Kagami was no voting (hmmmmmm)
Muffin was voting RB (which makes sense)
Bork was voting Muffin
GiF was also voting me, Pie, Bitmap, Varsoon, Gaiden (i.e a big pile of town). That makes me wonder as well.

And that should everyone left.

Then, at the end of Day 2:

GiF obviously voting everyone to be unlynchable.
Varsoon not voting (Mala is the only wagon I can remember him be interested in at this point)
I'm voting Sakura (Mala being the other wagon I was interested in)
Kagami voting GiF (who has unlynchable for like half a Day at this point). In fact Kagami only ever seemed to commit to lynching the two players that wouldn't be lynched at this point (me and GiF)
Vezok voting Mala.

And then we get the Pim Wagon

Pim [7] - GuyInFreezer, Magua, Malakittens, Nachomamma8, zMuffinMan, Sakura Hanax2 [LYNCH]

I remember Muffin responding when I asked for a case. I can't remember Nacho and Magua reasons to be on the wagon. Nacho is in a liklier scum spot than Magua.

At this point though I kind of feel like I'm coming round to voting Kagami ahead of Magua simply for not committing to wagons.

More later.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Vezok and Sakura have already claimed extra vig shots so I'm sceptical a full vig is in this setup as well. Plus neither Pie nor Bitmap look like good vigshot target which makes me think neither N1 kill was town aligned.

Given the way the game is going any third party would want to side with the town now to prevent a mafia victory so there is some degree of control.

[VictorDeAngelo]

We shouldn't be actively hunting the SK (assuming there is one) as I'm pretty sure lynching the SK is a mistake.

victor, what are your actual reads? there's so much waffle in 1323 that i can't actually tell where you stand on certain people (e.g. i'm unsure what your actual read on RB is, and it looks like you have hanasawa as a scum read but she isn't in the three people you want to lynch today)

If you thought 1323 was waffley then just wait until I start producing proper walls

TNE is my top scumread, hence the vote. I would put Bitmap next, then notscience. Unless something major happens I won't be voting anyone else today and they can be town for now.

So here, all his scumreads are now known town. Which sometimes happens, but still. Bitmap had just claimed an investigative role and is next most scummy to him.

Well that will happen when every single flip in a game is town. This game has been pretty terrible. I'm not the only one playing badly.

And Bitmap was counterclaimed by Sakura and the leading wagon when I replaced in so I don't see why I'm being singled out for this.

Interesting fenscesit on TNE, worth looking at after a flip.

I'll let you revise your stance after your reread to be fair.

Back later

This post was in an exchange with NS. It has a bit of a foreknowledge feel to it.

How so?

Still not liking the day 2 victor posts after reading with more context.

Ugh. Hate blanket statements like this.

The way he responded to knowing he will die. He didn't seem like concerned scum.

but he didn't die

Based on Sakura's description of her spellcard, did you think there was any chance of me dying last night?

[VictorDeAngelo]

I don't want to think of Victor as scum

who do you think is scum?

Based on Sakura's description of her spellcard, did you think there was any chance of me dying last night?

i thought you would die. but you didn't (and i do not buy that she was fake-claiming the strongman stuff given i cannot make sense of her play at the end of yesterday if she was fake-claiming that, but i do not see much point in speculating about why you survived right now in case i am wrong)

"the way he responded to knowing he will die" is a nonsensical statement given you didn't die

Not in the slightest. I had no way of knowing the kill was stoppable or Vezok would stop it. I had every reason to beleive I would die. That's half the reason I'm in so many games right now is because I thought I was as good as dead in half of them.

So yeah, unless your saying I am psychic the argument doesn't fly.

i do not really like his choice of vig shot, but i do not see much point in crying over spilled milk

I expected more mockery of the IC than this, o.o

I think we need a real answer for what Cold Snap did.

Like Varsoon already said, it turned off our neighbourhood for the night.

[VictorDeAngelo]

How?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Victor, why do think feirei immediately townread varsoon when she had a spellcard whose only purpose was to disband the neighborhood?

I don't no clue why Feirei townreads Varoon when it did (24).

How?

i don't know. i could speculate. but it seems rather fruitless

But what I'm getting at is that I had very little reason to assume I would be alive today, and I feel like your ignoring the more obvious (Victor thought he was dying) and instead trying to force yourself to believe I would be here.

he signed up for a lot of games thinking he will die

i have difficulty believing he thought he'd die in a single game and so signed up for multiple games.

I think I opened the door too much into speculation about ongoing games so I have to back off. But I will say there is a mistake here and at some point I

may

be able to explain it. For now you kinda have to accept my explanation.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Also for those not seeing it: Magua voted for the only person who he can't unvote. And then he complains of a deadline no lynch. Can you not see how scum he is?

Yeah, I'm pre-emptively complaining, because I know how this is going to go.

Some people remember that Victor is scum. These people vote him, but it's not enough for a lynch. The conftown-wonder-twins dither and against all evidence feel that Victor is town. So then you end up with the Town players divided, some voting Victor and some not. Time drags on. Epochs pass. Eventually the day ends in a no lynch because WE CAN'T FUCKING LYNCH SCUM WITHOUT THE GODDAMN CONFTOWN.

So, yeah. Kick in the pants. Victor or me. Either Victor finally gets dead-ed like he should've last night, or the game is lost anyways. Victor is the most goddamn-edly scummy scumfuck and I'm just goddamn mind-boggled at vezok and Varsoon both reading him as town and I don't want two more weeks of "Well....I dunno..."

Yeah it's terrible how town players keep townreading me. I wonder why they don't respond to that rock solid case you presented....oh right you didn't. In fact your role has done very little of anything this game.

Also why 1 v 1 here. I got to have buddies right? If I'm so obviously scum in your eyes that you don't even need to bother consider any evidence to the contrary you should no reason not to be able to find my buddies in a game with this few unconfirmed players remaining right?

i do not really like his choice of vig shot, but i do not see much point in crying over spilled milk

do you have suspects other than victor?

Although I'm crying on the inside over the Sakura-vig shot, I'm mostly just trying to hammer home to vezok how terrible his reads have been and to ask him to stop being so terrible please and thank you.

I suspect everyone who's not Vezok and Varsoon. Next-most suspicion would've been GiF but I want to see what ffery comes up, because I understand her questions but want to see her answers. But the gap between the two in terms of suspicion is (strong->weak) Victor------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>ffery

Come on Magua you can do better than this.

I want to hear from Nacho know. He was the one other person not conftown who has townreading me yesterday and he was one of the bigger question marks on the Pim wagon so I think you need some input ASAP.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah but it's silly to let Magua impatience force everyone into a 1v1. No forced him to lay down his vote. There's still a good chance he's scum but I don't have the absolute conviction I'd want for a 1v1 situation.

And I stand by that line Kagami saying "well maybe Fey is scum is weaksauce". Even if your prepared to ignore any evidence I'm town and just go with "Oh Victor's been calling flipped town people scum, guess he must be scum route" why not look for interactions. Why not pressure elsewhere.

The scum have this game almost sealed if they can force my lynch (or any other mislynch today) but any town player at least has to take a stab at thinking a few days ahead if there is any chance of winning.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I think I fucked the speech marks up there.

Meh.

[VictorDeAngelo]

wtf Muffin

Are you just making up stuff now and pretending I've said it.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Yeah, I'm a little tired of this game and I have a short fuse to people making stuff up. Be lucky no one gave a killshot in this game.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Whoop Nacho's here.

As for his posts, I like he's trying to solve the game but don't get what he hopes to acheive by outing the SK. Lynching the SK almost certainly ends the game (I second Muffin's opinion that there are few if any protection roles left we can rely on) so the identity of the SK might as well remain a secret.

Other than that Nacho is mostly townposting and I'm happy to keep him with Muffin/Vez/Varsoon in my townpile. That leaves three people I am willing to vote today (no prizes for guessing who).

Impossible Request "Swallow's Cowrie Shell -Everlasting Life-"

Can you explain what this did?

Night 2 kills imply nacho is town. Neither scum-kill was aimed at the obvious target: Sakura. They were worried she'd be protected. Only Nacho-slot has claimed protective outside of sakura herself.

Why would Sakura be protected? She used all her spellcards yesterday and seemed to all the place at the end of the day. She was probably more use to scumteam at this point than the town.

Night 2 kills make me think victor is indeed scum, since the ns/malakittens mislynch would have seemed far more viable to groupscum if he wasn't. Lynch-wagons up to now also imply such.

How exactly do the lynch-wagons show anything here? And given multiple players were scumreading ns/mala (Magua/Vez/Varsoon) and Mala was hated why would you assume scum were keen to kill this slot?

Ferry can't be a PGO (which would be the only feasible no-SK hypothesis), because a PGO wouldn't claim to commute.

I agree with this though.

I think vic and magua are both scum, yes. Not really a crossbus since vic has bizarrely failed to retaliate the vote.

I sense if you were town this would start to be the point where you would be finally realising my alignment.

As I said, I think both frozen neighbors are scum of different sorts.

Even if varsoon isn't the SK, it would still imply victor scum since there's no way both neighborhoods are clean.

Also all Kagami is doing here is basically looking for new ways to undermine the town result on Varsoon.

So then you and victor the only non-conf town?

Wait what? Did a load of people become conftown when I wasn't looking. I know Vez is IC, and Varsoon has a town result but what happened to make the rest of the game conftown Kag?

Pretty hard to imagine scum with a non-youkai multi-NK. You'd have to assume he was lying, but he set that up incredibly well. There was no way gaiden could have been scum.

Again, huh? Is some Touhou flavour thing that makes you say this or what?

Worse still, you seem to think magua is scum as well.

At this point Kagami can you give me a scenario where you and Magua are both town, cause I'm not seeing it.

So you think town are you, victor, varsoon, vezok.

GIF is SK, rest are scum.

and I have a provable vote manipulation that I used on my partner.

You not reading the game thread for comprehension freaks me out.

It doesn't make sense as any alignment.

Uh, it makes sense as scum doesn't it.

Another is that magua didn't realize that voting such would lead to the point I made about it being essentially a 1v1.

No, I knew voting Victor was sticky. I voted him wanting to make it a 1v1. Spoiler alert: No one cared.

Victor is scum. Anyone who thinks Victor is scum should vote Victor. Anyone who thinks Victor and I are both scum and this is a bus should vote Victor. Anyone who thinks Victor is town and I am scum....well, I don't really have much to say to you because I'm too busy going loooooooooooooooooooool, but, something. Words. Anyone who thinks Victor and I are both town needs to reconcile what they think the setup is -- vote locked town-on-town action in 4v3v1 should be instawin for the groupscum.

I'm going camping this weekend, so will be back on the 18th.

I look forward to another 20 pages, plzandthankyou.

I guess we have confirmation that Magua knew what he was doing. And this is not what town do at Lylo without any sort of info or reason.

I kinda think Magua + Kagami + one more = scumteam. GiF/Ferry is looking the likeliest through PoE but that would give the scumteam both vote manipulation and an unlynchable player which gives me pause for thought. If one of Magua/Kagami needs to die today I think Kagami is looking the most dangerous scum and needs to die first.

That said I totally lost on what the setup is doing. Can someone remind me of the known info before I lay down my vote about roles. Cheers.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Other than that Nacho is mostly townposting and I'm happy to keep him with Muffin/Vez/Varsoon in my townpile.

how many scum do you think there are? because that's 4 town reads and unless you think it's 5v2v1 that doesn't make a lot of sense

I think I already said this but Kagami/Magua/Fery would be the likeliest scumteam at this point. The SK is probably in my town pile but since I still believe that the SK loses the game at this point it's irrelevent.

Do you agree with my townpile Muffin?

[VictorDeAngelo]

victor

is there a reason you're not voting magua?

Because I've been weighing up whether Kagami or Magua is the better lynch. And right now I prefer Kagami.

Either way I can wait til Magua returns before I place a vote. The deadline is still a few days off so I can change my mind.

[VictorDeAngelo]

vezok voted me, which isn't a surprise. Vincent hasn't. Were Vincent town, this should be confirming me as scum to him, but instead he's hemming and hawing because he doesn't want to put a vote down.

I assume I'm Vincent now. Even so I don't really see what your trying to get at here.

Varsoon thinks that all four neighbors in this game are town and shuts his mind down there.

I don't believe this is Varsoon's argument at all. Are you trying to accuse him of bad setup gaming.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Well I waited for Magua and he's done naught this that post yesterday afternoon but neither has Kagami. Assuming there isn't about to yet another replacement I think I'm ready to vote.

VOTE: Kagami

[VictorDeAngelo]

Varsoon, well played.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Why is Magua assuming today will end in a no lynch?

[VictorDeAngelo]

Because of my vaunted ability to count.

I'm pretty sure we can still achieve a lynch without anyone having to move their vote. Still the point is moot.

PEdit: Yep, that's what it does.

[VictorDeAngelo]

*checks watch*

No, guys, you've still got plenty of time. Be sure not to strain yourself taking stances or actually commenting on Victor's complete lack of being quicklynched until there's only 8 or so hours left in the Day.

Why would I be quicklynched? Even in the incredible unlikely event that there are two non scum votes on me the scum would be reluctant to quickhammer in case they give themselves away to the SK. Not much more to say.

No, the sum total of my analysis is that if Victor is town, it is impossible to lynch groupscum today (with my vote on him, that's only 3 other Town vote + SK vote).

Unless a scum busses and given the situation I would expect it.

Victor continues to ignore this, 'cause he's scum, from yesterday continuing through today. Me voting Victor was quite literally a 1v1, and all the bullshit about "Well what about Kagami" is so much noise to the signal.

If it was a real 1v1 they wouldn't be a Kagami wagon would there.

In regards to being able to stop people with a frozen vote from playing spellcards, well, how to phrase this? Woop de shit. Victor's used a spellcard that, unless he's lying and Varsoon's not correcting him, turned off their Neighborhood for N3. What's the scum motivation in that? Or town motivation? There isn't one for either alignment to ever use that power, ever, and yet the power exists and Victor used it. I'm imagining that there are quite a few spellcards that have weird effects (eg Kagami's Boo). That doesn't make them Town, regardless of what Varsoon wants to think. The whole "This would be negative utility if Victor was scum" line of thinking is bad.

They could be a few reasons why it exists but the reality is that's what it did. Without full claims off a number of roles it'll be tough to crack the setup.

The point Varsoon made related to his spellcard which as he says, risks punishing town for voting scum if I wasn't town.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm VLA. Back in a few days.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Sigh, I'm not surprised. GG. Better than a no lynch I guess.

Fingers crossed the SK hits scum tonight.