Organic Chemistry [GAME OVER]

[mastin2]

VOTE: Guilty Gunsmith.
I am so, so sorry that you drew a scum role PM, AP.

Claim: Masons with Majiffy

, who is a bodyguard-mason, and will be protecting me each night most likely. Just thought I'd let you know.

[mastin2]

(May or may not be serious.
Depends on whether you think I've read so much as a single word or not.
And thus, whether you think I'm catching up on the large start of the game or whether I'm just posting to say, "yo". )

[mastin2]

A

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N

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A

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C

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Im serious.

For realz, though, I found this immediately eyebrow-raising.

Thank you whoever gave us that 1-shot Day cop ability. Naturally we used it on PeregrineV and PeregrineV is

Mafia

.
I'll let you guys have your petty RVS, but I fully expect him to be lynched by P5 at the latest.
--
Also lets have a flavor claim of whether or not we are organic or inorganic.
Snork and I will start. We're organic!! Popcorn mastin!

This, too.
For a game about being organic...this opener felt an awful lot like it was inorganic.

Day cop guilty spotted.
Sheeping time.
VOTE: PeregrineV

Probably town.

Re: the flavor claim:
I've tasted vaguely like cat food since the last game. Please advise, is catfood organic?
VOTE: mastin2
I'm assuming the caught scum is now bussing.

Is going to be the last scum caught. (Town.)

hey guys
wats going on
I didn't find a hydra partner in time so I am solo
can some1 give me the tldr version of wat this game is about cos I am already confused.
I am tired of being confused in gamz.

Mollie alarm bells ringing.
Like...normally, when mollie's town, I can tell fairly well. Here, something just instantly feels

off

.

Let's actually vote to that.

vote: mollie

.
I <3 you and I'm hoping this read changes. But it most certainly is not a townread.

[mastin2]

Everyone we lynch zzzx today.
If you want to have a clean game without the same immense post being quoted every three or four posts just to add another line come with me.

vote zzzx

Vezok's town. I was also concerned with Zx's opener; that vezok locked onto it is a VERY good sign.
(Or, y'know, I'm scum buddying him so that he gets mislynched after I flip scum. )

Also doduo, looks pretty town.

My initial read was that, yeah. Not absolutely sure, though.

~Noted. This is the same type of metal mistake I make as scum.
VOTE: Guilty Gunsmith
Do you want to drink with me? I got plenty of alcohol. Or are you content being scum?
Majiffy, stop policy lynching and help me lynch scum. I think Doduo has a post restriction.

Gut reaction is town, but Titus is always scum, so.

Mollie being confused early is also indicative of likely scum as she was confused really early in the game where we were scum together. I wound up having to bus her. Sorry Mollie.

Nevermind that, Titus is thinking exactly like I am. Town.

(Majiffy's posting is actually quite alarmingly NOT sending off townvibes instantly.)

[mastin2]

MAJIFFY I NEED YOU TO SCREAM TOWN LOUD AND CLEAR

This is better, though.

wtf is titus going on about

Not so much this.

ap you are making me nervous.

But this is good.

Vote: Majiffy

.

[mastin2]

Ok, what about me is making you nervous?

I've already dropped like a million towntells.

*points to these statements immediately next to each other*



Not necessarily scum, but not sending off townvibes.

Drunk guy who can only squawk or quack totally fits flavor as alcohol is an organic compand... at least according to my role PM.

Yes Im totally sure that Marquis going about his general schtick of posting the words squack and quack over and over in this game has special relevance to this game despite it just being his thing.try again?

I have never seen Marquis troll a game like this.

But there is no scum motive behind it. I expect you see it deeper than this. I actually town read him for that play.

Change my mind about Ax. He's town.

ap is town guyz

so is majiffy!

...

This is scum right here.
Come help me lynch scum for the glory of organic materials.

unvote
vote wicked

I see it and I can buy it, but I'm not absolutely sold.

[mastin2]

I'm kinda skimming page six and such.
Like, important words are there yet the whole exchange is turning me off.

Kinda feel like just saying screw it and working in reverse to find scum via POE.

[mastin2]

Kinda feel like yolo-voting Lying Cat and townreading AP. But meh.
/caught up, but this is pretty dang worthless posting.

[mastin2]

Vote: Majiffy

.

You haven't even quoted a post of mine. Where the fuck is your head at?

I'd quote posts of yours I agree with.

That there aren't any is a large contributing factor in my vote.

[mastin2]

Bipolarchemist
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
Majiffy
Titus
MTD
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)
pirate mollie
PeregrineV
zabriel
Wickedestjr
beastcharizard

Eliminated def-townreads.

BPC/Saki/zabriel/beast haven't posted; I got a gut feeling Speedy Saki's town, though. PBC probably is, too. Kinda getting the vibe beastcharizard picked up a town role PM, too. zabriel's a bit more iffy; we'll have to wait and see him actually post content.

But on those who HAVE posted...
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
^Posting looks more town than not-town, but this is shallow analysis that doesn't go in-depth.

Majiffy
^Closest thing to a well and true proper scumread I have. A town-Jiffy synchs really well with me. This Jiffy...most assuredly isn't.

Titus
^Always scum, but townreading decently strong. Not enough for elimination, though.

MTD
^Haven't really bothered reading his posting, but vaguely felt town I guess.

Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
^Meh, I suppose town for now, but this is a zero-strength read.

pirate mollie
^
Gun to head, town?

PeregrineV
^Need more.

Wickedestjr
^Skimmed, but posting does look like scum.
Slight concern in that everyone's wagoning him, though. Yeah, scum can make themselves be that obvious, but did he?

/badreads.

[mastin2]

What's your position on the DoduoTrollPostRestrictionFakingThing that NoOneWillEverBeAbleToReadBecauseTroll and WeReallyShouldn'tAllowToClutterTheThreadNorGetAnywhereNearLYLO?

The slot's town to the nth degree. Lynching them will never be on the table.

Mastin where's your catchup posting because that wasn't it, try again!!

It's right there?

Kinda want to be masons with vezok, now.

[mastin2]

Seriously.... you felt the need to do this?

Yep! The only reason I even labeled them as badreads is because I did the math and found I had at most, like, 3 viable scum names when there's gonna be four meaning I townread too many people too quickly.

[mastin2]

Mastin's entry is a little worrisome. It doesn't scream town to me. In fact her stance on me is pretty meh. I'd wagon mastin right now but not feel amazing about it. Just kidding, I probably would.

VOTE: Guilty Gunsmith.

Come on, give reasons for the Majiffy vote. I dont see anything particularly egregious from Majiffy so far.

How about the fact that Majiffy's sole content is pushing a policy lynch, when there's other things to be talked about. And if he were town, I'd expect us to synch up on some things and he's done nothing of the sort.

[mastin2]

Explain to me where you got that read.

Because their posting has looked highly town. It's lighthearted. Whimsical. Annoying, yes. A pain, sure. Scum?
Not in a million years.

This is what I'd expect you as town to think.

[mastin2]

- didnt try to identify with majiffy,

On the contrary, me not identifying with Majiffy is quite explicitly why he's a scumread.

[mastin2]

Okay. I will give you one thing. One thing that could give a shadow of a doubt.

Doduo (notscience + Marquis)

And that's notscience being in the hydra but not posting, because notscience makes his alignment obvious with posting, well, posting. And a faked PR can be a convenient way of avoiding that.

Thing about it is, though, that they look obvtown anyway in spite of (or perhaps partially because of) the faked PR, meaning that point doesn't really hold to me.

[mastin2]

@Mastin: Cute. I already said that I found Majiffy's Doduo push to be "meh" and that I expected more. The Doduo push doesnt make Majiffy scum though. ITs fairly null and Majiffy's air feels different than L4D to me so far. I dont see why Majiffy is a good vote.

Also Snork and I both think you are scum, so ha!

Yeah, well the thing about Majiffy is that if his pushes are "meh" and you expect more...that generally means he's scum. And Majiffy was quite correct--his posting in L4D was doing my will. You thinking this isn't doing any favors to my read on you, either.

I mean, legit, my posts are probably terribad in a lot of other ways because I'm half-assing it, but you and Majiffy are actual scumreads that I actually feel.

[mastin2]

SHOW ME POSTS. QUOTES. TELL ME WHY THE POSTS BY DODUO ARE TOWN-MOTIVATED.

Not motivated, but tone. They just feel town. I also don't see the scum motive, so it's null at worst, not null at best.

My top scumreads right now are mastin2, WickedDestJr, ZZZX, MTD in roughly that order of increasing lynchburnfire-ness.

Your vote says otherwise.

[mastin2]

Anyway, not going to get overly invested in this game, soyeah, leaving before I'm late for my next class. (I'm writing an MD article on this, btw. Stay tuned.)

[mastin2]

Actually, changed my mind.
Had a thought while driving that AP/Snork was town.
Frustratingly, have not a dang clue

what

that thought was, but had it all the same, so
VOTE: Majiffy.

[mastin2]

Btw, for those curious about anything, you can just ask.

vezokpiraka
Doduo (notscience + Marquis)
ZZZX
Titus
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
pirate mollie
MTD
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
Wickedestjr
Majiffy

Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)
beastcharizard
Bipolarchemist
zabriel

PeregrineV

Not exactly a readslist. But basically annotation of thoughts atm.

[mastin2]

(Also, for the record, will not be this active whole game. Feel like posting, so am posting. When I don't feel like posting, I'll be posting more sparsely. When I do, I will, unless real life dictates I won't, since I'm not going to prioritize this game above it. [Again, working on article explaining my theory.] Basically, you could run me up and I'm not going to be posting any differently than I am now. Maybe a bit more, perhaps a bit less, but tone would be the same and so would devotion to the game. I'm only human, so there would be some change [in particular, spite meaning I wouldn't claim if run up], but otherwise, the same.)

[mastin2]

You're posts are so EMPTY!!!!

Kinda? They're lazy and explicitly so. I don't feel like putting in extreme effort into the game right now.

wtf is this surface level nonsense??

Postin' my feelings which often are just that. If I felt like going deeper, I'd go deeper. Right now, I don't. Probably will later.

There is no feels!

This one you're just wrong on, though. There's plenty of feels. You can't see it, it's not a problem on my end.

Your read on us was so wishy washy!

Yep! Still is!

Your SC lynch in House Party had more heart!

And my lynch on SC was on town.

[mastin2]

Why do all your posts sound like you don't even believe what you're writing?

Dunno. That's basically the one thing which

shouldn't

be a problem. Like. You said it yourself. Surface level play. A scuMastin can use legit surface-level play, meaning if I was scum I'd believe what I was writing, too.

[mastin2]

(Basic preview of articles:
Casual play is more productive and fun and healthy.
Investing heart into it not only reduces fun, but also accuracy.)

[mastin2]

Still don't remember what made AP town before, but feelin' it anyway all the same.

[mastin2]

mastina whats up?

That's what I want to know.

Like, I realize I'm half-assing my play, here, but I don't see where the issue is. Honestly, I've never felt more serene than right now, and happy energetic lightness. Like I'm playing a game rather than doing a job. (Even my internal tone this game is lighter. My normal internal voice is a bit lower than what I have this game.) That should be conveyed quite clearly, but it shouldn't be interfering with reads. It should be Mastin through the filter of a new personality but still Mastin.

[mastin2]

I hope you don't expect me to actually take your self meta and apply it...

What self-meta?

Also also this is the same "I'm admitting I'm being lazy so it's ok and you shouldn't lynch me" kind of attitude from NY 172. Where you were scum.

I don't remember that. I mean, there was an "I'm admitting to being scummy" in L4D, but not lazy.

where did you lose your way to read ap?

When I stopped actively trying. I have him as town for now. If I actually bothered trying to read him, maybe I'd give ya a more in-depth answer, but eh.

[mastin2]

oxymoron! Does half-hearted play get you by as scum? Nope, and it shouldn't as town either. Stop whining about your play being half-hearted ONLY after people break down your play to you and put pressure on you. It looks really, really bad.

I have literally no clue what you're saying.

Also, mastina please explain your read on vezok. Top of the town list, why?

Easy, vezok's thoughts are basically an open book to me. I mean, even when playing half-heartedly, I can tell this is his towngame. I detailed this last game, essentially, that vezok's essentially like me only not quite; he saw the same things I did and posted about them in a town way, soyeah.

How did you get reads on is mastin when we haven't even posted yet?

Gut. You just seemed town. In spite of not existing. I just felt it.

[mastin2]

unvote
Vote mastin

Something feels off and I need to see what.

I dunno. I mean, sure, yeah, I feel different, but not in an 'off' way, in a Mastin way. Your guess is as good as mine.

Oh and the post above me is made by awful scum.

Vaguely agree.

Last time I played with mastin, this game, she was in the Horrifying Hero hydra and had a very very strong scum read on me starting from the bottom of page 1. I've

never

played with somebody so certain that I was scum, even though I was town and eventually forced to claim cop. Granted it was a few years back, but I have a hard time believing mastin forgot.

Actually...I didn't. That's the same reason I haven't voted you. (Well, aside from the votes already on you.) I had that game specifically in mind when thinking of you, because frankly, it's the only game I remembered.

Heppy to lynching the wicked.
Something's weird about mastin, but I dont care for how little resistance there is to a wagon.

Why is it that everyone is saying there's something weird about me? It's me.
(That said, there seems to be a bit of a contradiction with the attitude towards me compared to Wicked, though not absolutely sure.)

VEzo's jump makes no sense to me. He has a wagon on scum that he started, but he gets off??? That makes no sense to me and makes me glad I never got on the Wicked wagon as I'm doubting its validity.

Well, the wagon forming such as it did does give concern for its validity, but Vezok's hop off of it is not at all noteworthy.

really mastin, how are we town-ish
i know we're town but i want to know how you know because i need to know that because i want to know that i think i know what you know

Well, I just guessed initially. Got a gut vibe before you had even posted that it'd be true. Then you started posting. And, well. It's still true.

We can form a trifecta townblock you me and vezok

No objections here, though do me a favor and invite Zx for me.

[mastin2]

You mean that zzzx dude? Are you sure you want two fluffers in your town block cause you're getting way more than popcorn

Yes, I am. Town players are town players. Moreover, town players like you are town players that individually might be perceived as sub-par but when collectively put together are actually an incredibly awesome force.

I trust vezok. A lot. Zx kinda reminds me of me in my MS youth, in that I see potential to be good after a little dosage of humbleness and time spent on the site. (No, the two are not mutually exclusive.) I think Perpetual Nonsense is town, and know Bert's competent. I'm also thinking you're town and I know that you can not-suck when you choose to.

@mastin: So do I get it right that you townread vezok for (seemingly jokingly) disliking a ZZZX post

because of posting style

and then say that ZZZX is town for townreading Doduo,

which he is basically the content of the post vezok didn't like

?

Nope! You didn't. Vezok's town because his posts are bleeding town, basically being exactly in line with my own thoughts, just more vezoky than mastiny.

Is this the same mastin who thinks forcing townblocs to form leads to scum infiltrate townblocs?

Kinda? I don't think forcing a townbloc is a good idea. I don't stop townblocs from forming, and it looks like one is forming on its own. Naturally. Rather than artificially. Which makes me not oppose it and actually have a suggestion for it.

[mastin2]

(MTD might be scum, but I should probably read his posting in more detail and do some crossreferencing, since there's something in there that I THINK was absent from his scumgame that I remember being present in his towngame, soyeah, not sure.)

[mastin2]

Despite me being totally transparent, no one reads me well.

Actually, I think this is the answer I have for you, Titus. Your strength as a scum player is being transparent without being transparently-scum. That is, your thoughts are made crystal clear and feel (because they largely will be) genuine, but are still furthering a scum wincon. Thus, why everyone reads you as town when you're scum. It's also the weakness in your scumgame, though, because if something feels off, if something doesn't add up, on the transparent thoughts, it's the giveaway that you're scum, I'd think. (Not exactly sure; I'd have to fact-check.) And I'm actually theorizing this is actually why you're so hard to read as town: because players with experience playing with you's main way of reading players (transparency) they know doesn't apply to you, meaning they find it difficult to tell whether you're town or scum in spite of sounding town.

Again, haven't fact-checked, but I think this is an accurate summary of you as a player.

@mastin: bert's town. Look at his posts and tell me if anything doesn't scream town to you.

Which is exactly what I was saying?

Have you heard of pressure? Wicked is already scum. No need to keep my vote there when we pursue other leads.

Helpful hint, pressuring players generally works better if you're pressuring someone who actually will change when under pressure. Which admittedly would happen in past games but I'm not letting it happen this game, so pressuring me isn't going to do anything. Talking to me, sure, yeah, that can do stuff. Pressuring me, not so much.

Mastin has been pushed up right to boiling point...

Past, actually. It's something you'd never expect, but I can in fact be pushed so far that I BREAK. And not only boil over, but evaporate into scolding-hot vicious steam. (Not a pretty sight.) Part of the reason for the chillz attitude this game.

So... from what I can tell from 2 games with mastin (1 where she was town 1 she was scum), this feels like neither really...

Welcome to me, MTD. Above all other things, that you'll learn about me. Nobody changes game to game more than I do. (Thus my thread about meta in MD.) In part because nobody's been in as many games as I have. (150+ by now.) It's not just role, it's not just alignment, it's not just game type, it's not just players inside the game, it's not just my mood, it's not just the circumstances of other ongoing games and past games (read the MD thread for more details; they DO influence things!), but rather, all of them combined and more, making me basically the very definition of, "don't use objective tells; use subjective feelings about patterns", more or less.

mastin's townbloc: speedy saki, mastin, zzzx, vezok, perp. nonsense

Not quite. You placed me inside of it. I mean, you could

let

me in if you felt like it, since I do work well with players like you and am town, but I don't really see myself inside the townbloc right now. The weird feelings around me are too strong for that.

Hello towns just to clear up some stuff
I have played with zzzx off site before
Since then zzzx has gotten a hardon for me and is stalking me
We have completed N games together and I always read him right
He always reads me town regardless if I was really town or scum lol
As he is stalking we are currently in X concurrent games, including this one
This is the first time he calls me scum

Believe it or not, I'm actually aware of this. However, though Zx's initial misread raised my eyebrow, read your exchange in its full entirety. It looks incredibly town on both ends.

ZZZX and Sonic.
Stop that fight ffs. You are both town. Go find scum.

And people wonder why Vezok is my top-townread.

She isnt bothering to read my posts.

Actually, I am. The entirety of them is lynching (mainly on policy) players that I am thinking town. Aside from Wicked, who I'm avoiding giving conclusions on for the time being. It's not that I'm not bothering to read your posts. It's that

there's nothing to be read

in

your posts

, thus the scumread.

She avoids direct questions in favor of half assed deflected answers.

The only direct questions you've given me are loaded questions. So when I have answered...yes, they've been deflecting...but deflecting the weight in a manner to unload them and leave the scales of the question/answer balanced. (That...made sense in my head?)

This is looking a lot likd her l4d game.

Eh, I guess I can kinda see the comparison, vaguely. (Though it should be noted that as scum, I don't think I've ever used the same trick in two back-to-back games. Specifically because players will be looking for the trick in the next game, so I change things up each time. Typically, my townplay resembling a previous game = scuMastin; my scumplay resembling a previous game = masTown. Cyclic rather than static play, you could say.)

Im gonna have to go with mastin because we think really similarly.

And yet, you're not seeing my thoughts at all, and I'm not seeing yours at all. You're advocating the lynch of players for the most part I largely have no problems with, and your reads in general are being held tightly to your chest. There's no transparency at all. There's a lack of seeing into what you're thinking, because you're going out of your way to push things in a zero-info way. And you're not really seeing any of my thoughts. My reads, my reasons, you accused me of not reading your posts...but have you read mine? Your posting hasn't reflected that at all.

Thus the vote.

Jiffy you're usually very very vocal which I like, but here you're almost completely reactionary without initiative. What is up with that huh? Like you did not come in to this game firing out of this gate and that worries me.

This guy. This guy gets it.

[mastin2]

Every. Single. Time. I've seen Mastinscum she's half-assed her play. Is this legit or am I being aggressively paranoid?

Yesbutno. Yes, there's a point to me being lazy as scum, and that's because I'm SO dang good at it that often, I slack off simply because when I put the time and effort into things, I'll basically nearly never lose a scumgame. No, me half-assing it isn't a scumtell, since, well, in spite of the above, me half-assing my play is something that actually comes from a town me more, really. It's...kinda confusing; I can't really explain it myself.

Jiffy, Are you my uncle Ethyl now?

Umm. I'm not sure about this. But I checked my role PM just now. And it's possible I'm uncle/auntie Ethyl? /knows nothing about Organic Chemistry. Like, it's possible, it's also possible I'm not; I don't know what uncle/auntie Ethyl means, I just know it's possible given my role PM that I am it.

Can we lynch MTD?

Maybe? Won't get me resisting it. He's maybescum, maybetown, until I look at things more in-depth.

I have her firmly in my null-town pile right now. I dont think her attitude overhaul is alignment indicative at all, but it could be from scum.

Attitude overall not alignment-indicative and could be from scum.
Null-town.
Not computing.

Nor a ruse, nor a trick, nor a whimsy. She is being genuine about her feelings. That doesn't make her town, but reread her with this in mind? I guarantee that Im right.

Of course me saying it invalidates it, but I've kinda felt plenty-whimsical this game, and that's a good thing, not a bad one. And yeah, you are.

Majiffy is one of the few people who won't misread mastin aggressively for shit reasons.

(Thus the scumread because he is.)

[mastin2]

Majiffy is the over-explaining/awkward/rigid feel of his posts alignment indicative or just how he sounds all the time?

I vaguely remember it being the reason I scumread him in Tough Guy. Soooooo, maybe?

Spoiler: MTD shit

snip

You're confbiasing.

Though I agree, I disagree that this means MTD suspicion is invalid altogether.

[snip]

I really don't like this post.

And yet, I had no problem with it.

Titus, MTD, ZZZX scumteam. Wickeddestjr

No, No, Maybe, Yes.

See, this is the problem. The closest I've gotten to agreeing with you is thinking (but not sure) no on Titus, thinking (and being fairly sure) no on Zx, and thinking maybe (but not sure) on Wicked. That's like a 1.5/4 if you're being extra-generous.

Nothing personal to you, Marquis and NS. But your posts this game are fucking utter shit.

Closest they have to shit-posting is their lack of stronger presence in-thread.

As I said. Not feeling the townz.
I normally feel the townz.

I've been incredibly transparent, Mastin.

Then why do I know absolutely nothing about most of your reads?

I know not a single valid reason for one of your town reads. Not one.

Show the invalid ones, then. I've explained every read that people have asked me to explain.

[mastin2]

why didn't you answer the question? Was he scum or town there?

Not that hard to check, y'know. He already said he was town, there.

So instead you have me as your second strongest suspect.

No, I have you as vaguely suspicious but maybe not.

2. How is my play different here? Or do you agree that I'm playing the same way?

That'd require me to actually remember the game in detail, and to do serious analysis and to also assume your play wouldn't change over the years and also assume your scumplay would be markably different and as you can see by all of these qualifiers, that kind of judgement is kinda worthless to make.

You're a meh-read. You could be town. Could be scum. Your posting vaguely looks scum. Knowing your posting vaguely looked scum as town previously plus the wagon and reasons on you casts some doubt on it. Haven't really bothered to form a conclusion one way or the other.

mastin not so much, her posting didn't get any better, just more...
VOTE: mastin
I also don't like vezok's hop onto my wagon.

Any one of these three wouldn't be a problem. Any combo of two (or all three) creates problems. Vezok hopped onto MTD's wagon--fine to dislike, except Vezok's previous vote was on me, who MTD just voted rather than voting for Vezok. He votes the person Vezok is also scumreading strongly.

My posting doesn't get any better--not true, but fine. It also hasn't gotten worse, just more of it as MTD said. That'd be fine if MTD had a marked scumread of me, OR if MTD left the comment at just that. But MTD's previous thoughts on me were, "This isn't like either of Mastin's games I've played with her, but it's especially not like her scumgame", last I checked. Meaning that if my posting was weird-but-maybe-town and hadn't changed, MTD's position also wouldn't have changed.

[mastin2]

Oh, heck with it.

I know there's a wagon there already, but I feel like voting there anyway.

VOTE: MTD.

[mastin2]

Mastin, gun to your head, read on Mollie?

Please note that I say this with the understanding that it's not just a gun to my head, but that the hammer has been cocked and the trigger is micrometers away from launching the bullet into my head, AND that my will to live is at its all-time highest and I never more than ever want to live and that declaration is what my life depends upon.

...Got it?
Town.

[mastin2]

So I retain basically none of my memory from the game. But.

Closest they have to shit-posting is their lack of stronger presence in-thread.
As I said. Not feeling the townz. I normally feel the townz.

I have no idea what game you're reading but it's clearly not this one.

I've been incredibly transparent, Mastin.

Then why do I know absolutely nothing about most of your reads?

Because you haven't been reading my posts, despite insisting that you are.

I know not a single valid reason for one of your town reads. Not one.

Show the invalid ones, then. I've explained every read that people have asked me to explain.

I already have, and you still have failed to offer a valid reason for the Doduo townread.

VOTE: Majiffy.

Don't really need to. This is not a town-Jiffy.

[mastin2]

No way TownMastin gives up a push on ScumMajiffy she's sure about to push a meh scumread on MTD.

Though this does actually look like something that looks like a town-him.

So instead you have me as your second strongest suspect.

No, I have you as vaguely suspicious but maybe not.

I don't believe you. In post 242 you posted a list of the players that had contributed. Vezok, your strongest town read iirc was at the top of the list. Doduo and ZZZX, who you labeled as definite town reads, were second and third on the list. Scrolling down, Majiffy, your vote at that point, was at the very bottom of the list. Guilty Gunsmith, another slot that you had voted, was third from the bottom. It really looked like you ordered it from most townish at top down to most scummy at bottom. My name was second from the bottom.

But I explicitly said it was not exactly a readslist. Just a feels-list. Something highly fluid and in change. (Which is an important factor: reads change.) Kinda, "closer you are to the top, less concerned I am; closer you are to the bottom, more concerned I am" list. Which I suppose is vaguely reads, but not a readslist. You're vaguely suspicious but maybe not. Your position reflected that.

But I don't think scum mastin realized that until I brought it up, even though she claims that she had remembered and was considering it.

Hey, Wicked.
Go look up Anything Goes.
Attack on Titan.
The early scum QT in NY 172.
Some of my thoughts in Left 4 Dead.

Also, look up Tales of Vesperia, and iso the hydra Wallduskkel; look for links near the end.
Also also, look at House Party; if not in my iso, then in the dead QT.

As scum, pinning down players is my strength. Believe me when I say. If I was scum. I most certainly would have realized that and had taken it into account. Literally every scum game of mine has been won largely because I know players, know how they think, and can set up circumstances to be beneficial to me. (After all, it takes a truly masterful scum player to

claim scum in-thread to

secure

victory

. /still ridiculously proud of that game.) And if you look at Vesperia/House Party, you'll see they had a scum hider (well, sorta, in Vesperia). Which I ranted at the mods of those games, linking to...Armor's Tough Guy Mafia, for why it is a ridiculously-OP role that can secure scum victory in any game unless the scum player screws up. And those games, with their respective rants? Are both within REALLY recent memory, so events tied to them (such as my linking to our last game) are also fresh in mind.

I had it in mind. My alignment regardless, you can believe me on that.

[mastin2]

I hope we all enjoyed our lives without mafiascum

Actually, yeah! I made SIGNIFICANT progress on my webcomic's layout. Felt incredibly productive.

My mind is going to explode if I see more people posting about mastins thoughts. You can't outpredict her. You are literally digging a hole for yourself and you won't be able to get out.

Oh, geez, now I remember why vezok was my #1 townread.

Like, the statement itself is null. The tone and delivery of it, though, is completely and entirely town.

Also mastin interacts with her scumbuddies in some way. Here she interacted with almost nobody.

Lack of interaction is itself a type of interaction, btw.

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 4 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD, Majiffy, Wickedestjr)
MTD - 4 (Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 2 (Doduo, Lying Cat)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

Whoah. I'm actually a counterwagon! MTD had five votes (forget who the fifth was--I can only think of Wicked being the vote changer, though), and with my unvote, now has only three.

Thing about it is that I don't remember not liking Speedy Saki (quite the opposite), vezok's my strongest townread, and AP's probably town (but eh), compared to a wagon where the only townread is Perpetual Nonsense and I've voted two of 'em and have been vaguely scumreading the third. I mean, I don't want to get all egotistical on ya, but, well...kinda hard not to think two scum there.

[mastin2]

(I, uh. Probably should not be that giddy about being run up. That was a bad, baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad habit of mine and one of the first things I broke in 2010.)

[mastin2]

mastina have we interacted

at all

this game cos I donnae remembah

Some?

(Kinda thinkin' town now.)

[mastin2]

Vaguely remember talking about Majiffy, but other than that, no.
(Also,
VOTE: MTD.)

[mastin2]

Mastina I have always wanted to ask you about your avatar choice

Right now? It's a trolol face thanks to L4D.
My normal avatar, though, is the Zorbak Grin. (I'll be going back to it after the thrill of L4D has faded.) The ebil moglin was my original avatar on the original site I used the name mastin2 on. (I may have signed up on MS.net as Mastin first, but I switched to mastin2 largely because I felt more comfortable on it.) I always loved his scenes in AE games.
Now, my MS.net version has been changed, to be a member of the Cult of UberNinja. And I intend to be one of its last followers, which is why it's going back up once I feel like stopping bragging. (Admittedly, that may take a while. I'm still ridiculously proud of how I handled that cop guilty and the resulting paranoia and lack of info from it, and the whole grand plan overall, even.)

also you are tied for the lynch lead
I don't think i like that.

Eh, I suppose it is an objectively bad thing, 'specially since you never run up a scuMastin without her own consent (note: inability to execute a plan out of inactivity is what we like to call "implied consent" ), but it's actually quite refreshing. Last time I felt this good, it was on an alt. Plus it's good info either way.

what I am saying is that unless he does something SUPERDUPER town I tend to scumread him.

Well, I've been scumreading him, though he has done stuff that could be vaguely town. Definitely want to hear more from you, though.

there are a lot of players that I am unfamiliar with and I think that is why i am having a hard time orienting myself in the game.

Ask about a player and I'll probably be able to help ya.

(That's kinda my thing on MS.net. I really get around. )

[mastin2]

(Like, I just took a look. Literally the only player I've no experience with at all is SXTLHGaiden...who's inside a hydra anyway. Everyone else, experience. Admittedly, some, not much, but overall, I basically know everyone here.)

[mastin2]

Mastin stop ignoring my hipster scumread on Sakiscum.

Okay, I'll stop ignoring it and choose to actually address it.

You're wrong; move on.

There, done ignoring it.

Hm, I don't remember much, but obviously I am being wagoned...

I'll be rereading.

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

Also, Vezok is so ridiculously town that I'm actually worried he's going to end up nightkilled. Which would really, really suck.

@AP: Your reads are usually better. What's happening to you?

Always a concern about AP. This + Snork = one of the main reasons my read on AP has been not nearly as solid as it should be. Also also why Majiffy's been a strong scumread of mine; his reads have been, well...weird.

[mastin2]

What posts of his feel town to you?

All of them?

I said it in L4D. Vezok's just the type of player who's, well. Who's extremely like me. He's incredibly easy to read for me. Like, I can look at his posts, and basically the whole time, see them and think, "Yep. That's a town-mindset." The tone behind what he says. The mindset motivating him. His whole reads. Everything. It's town. Think, "mastin, but less verbose and more subtle". Read his iso again. He's making good, solid points. He's looking at all the key areas. He's saying all the right things. Yeah, he's not me. But he's similar enough to me that I can tell he's town, more than I can with any other player. I'd basically be willing to entrust my life to him. (Thus, my concern that he'd end up nightkilled. Players that I tend to trust with my life also tend to die before I give mine. )

And I get that you are committed to the whole "Lol AP could be scum cause his reads suck" routine right now, but drop that like a hot potato and ISO Vezok stat, tia.

Hey, you're currently not a scumread, so take your victories where you can. I'd be more willing to townread you, though, if you didn't ignore my input on some of my strongest reads and take them into consideration. Now if you talked to me about my weaker reads, sure, yeah, you'd be able to influence me. But my stronger reads should be influencing how you perceive those players. Instead you're trying to undermine them. See the concern?

[mastin2]

Huh. That's unusual.

Mastin I really fucking hate what people, yourself and possibly myself included, are doing to the site meta.

Okay, I'll stop ignoring it and choose to actually address it.
You're wrong; move on.
There, done ignoring it.

You left out the important part of that post, though, that being the ":P" at the end. It was an important addition, since it made my intention more clear. I was choosing to ignore your read because I didn't feel it needed to be addressed. Because the read didn't really hold validity to me, and still doesn't. You confronted me about it, I counter-confronted you. You think Saki's scum, you're going to need to show it to me, since that hydra is also near the top of my town list.

[mastin2]

Oh, figured it out. Problem on my end I think, but I know what it is and it shouldn't exist again.

[mastin2]

This is all extremely abstract.

By itself, yeah. But use the words I say there, and apply them to vezok posts I've quoted. You see them there, and should see why I see that.

I found I didn't find many of Vezok's opinions very compelling.

More subtle Mastin. Less compelling, but just as perceptive, perhaps even moreso. Vezok's opinions may not be compelling...but the opinions he shows are insanely town and hold merit.

Nothing from Vezok is based in concrete analysis and I

dislike

the feels I get from his train of thought (especially on you and wickeddest).

You just called my reasoning on Vezok abstract; my posting is equally not based on concrete analysis, and I have basically the exact same train of thought. As I said. We're similar.

You are pushing me aside to follow your own things though.

What things do you feel strongest about?

You deserve the Most Cunning nomination.

Sadly, I'm not scum this game. But yes, I do feel I'm a good candidate for Most Cunning anyway in spite of that, since my scumgame IS amazingly strong this year. Alas.

Are you an ENTP by chance?

I don't think so? The letters ent appears in my PM, but I don't see a P.

[mastin2]

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

lol.

Loling is also not exactly a town response to an accusation.

Go reference league some other time!

[mastin2]

I don't think so? The letters ent appears in my PM, but I don't see a P.

Control-fed my role PM with the letter P. Obviously, it comes up, but never in a place that would even remotely suggest ENTP. (Also, just checked; ent doesn't come up, though en with a later t that I can be seen becoming ent does.)

[mastin2]

Oh.

THAT.

We actually had this discussion in a speakeasy thread, but sadly, the best parts of it were lost in the rollback. (That, or I discussed it under my other online identity, but I coulda sworn I did it on MS.net at one point.)

I think the answer I gave then was, "Kinda?", in that it gave a good guideline but was not a complete fit. For instance, there's a stark contrast between my online and real-life selves. In-person, I'm more introverted (I'm asocial; I LOVE socializing...but absolutely SUCK at it), but since those limitations don't exist in text form, on forum environments, I'm extroverted. (You can tell I'm more introverted online, too, when it comes to chats. I typically lurk in them and occasionally pop in. When I do pop in, I'll probably have a fair amount to say, but often, I simply...don't. It's only in forums that I have the time to think and respond to everything, becoming the social beast that I am.)

I also have both sense and intuition. They're basically gut and logic, right? Well...I've held for years that the two are basically the same thing, and my world perspective on things is similar. I sense things. I have an instinctive feeling for them. Like when driving, I just

know

my speed. I've got a better natural speedometer than my cars' speedometers. (You'd think that'd be subjective, but it's not. My speedometer will tell me I'm going a speed, and those radar signs will show my true speed. Said radar signs agree with GPSes on my speed. And whenever I feel my speed, if I check it to a GPS, the GPS says I'm going more or less the speed I feel I'm going, even if the speedometer says something else. Thus, while it should be subjective, I just

know

it's true.) I have a natural knack for feeling the handling of a car. The speed, the steering, I can basically create a mental profile of it all.
...And therein enters the logical part. I sense the things, but then I process them intuitively. I have this way of instantly analyzing the things I see and basically going through things logically.

To explain this, think of...art. There's basically two ways that you can go about art, and they fit into the two types. One is to follow the strokes, the flow, of things. How objects move. Dynamic tracking. How things go. It's not "making it up as you go along", but it is building things naturally, with an idea in your head that you bring to life on the paper, bit by bit, by bringing things out.

The other way to go about it is more geometrically. Mathematically. Like an architect, you can create lines and shapes. You build things like a structure. And then layer them out, bit by bit, piece by piece. It's not static and stale, but it is organized, precise, and deliberate. Two separate approaches. But for my art, I've found that I'm at my strongest as an artist when the two merge together. You can already tell in my descriptions of the two alone that they have overlap, no? That the two separate art approaches have a great degree of similarity, of planning vs doing, of on-the-paper vs on-the-head. And my way is to do both at the same time.

I feel things. I process things. And to me, that really covers the others as well. I think things, and feel the conclusion. I feel something, then think of why I feel that way. (For instance, if I have a craving for food, that's a feeling. Then I ask

why

I'm craving that food, and through knowledge, can generally get what my body's asking for. Craving steak? I probably need protein.)

So really, I feel as if seeing things through the eyes of the ENTP world is too narrow. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, going through the list.

ENTPs gain energy through interactions with people or objects in the outside world. They tend to enjoy having a wide circle of acquaintances.

Does describe me. Though I should note that I LOVE smaller communities, because that more intimate feeling makes me feel like family to them.

N – Intuition preferred to sensing: ENTPs tend to be more abstract than concrete. They focus their attention on the big picture rather than the details, and on future possibilities rather than immediate realities.

Also more accurate than not. Because I DO think of things in more abstract terms, and when it comes to stories, am very good at getting the bigger picture down. And I do have my head in the clouds when it comes to the future. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, it should be noted...I'm VERY good at picking up the details of OTHERS. My own details, I SUCK at pinning down, but others, I'm awesome at.

T – Thinking preferred to feeling: ENTPs tend to value objective criteria above personal preference. When making decisions, they generally give more weight to logic than to social considerations

And this one? This one's more false than true. Because I am a very, VERY subjective person. I do what I feel like doing, rather than what is objectively the best thing to do. Yeah, sure! I'll weigh them in my head. I'll think how I feel. And I'll think about the facts of the situation. Most lylos are actually a debate between think vs. feel, and ultimately I do a LOT of thinking in the lylo, but I often place FAR more into feeling than should be for a T. I suppose it applies for others, though. When thinking about plans, well...that's kinda what I'm good at doing.

P – Perception preferred to judgment: ENTPs tend to withhold judgment and delay important decisions, preferring to "keep their options open" should circumstances change.

More true than not, but as noted, I'm impulsive. REALLY impulsive. I tend to not jump to conclusions. I am reserved. I like to take my time. Think things through. Analyze. But sometimes?
...No, make that basically most of the time?
Ultimately, I just say, "Ah, screw it," and jump right in.

(Note that I have been diagnosed as being bipolar. And that might influence some of this.)

The ENTP has been described variously as the innovator, the originator, the lawyer, the inventor, the explorer, and the visionary. ENTPs also fall into the general categories of thinkers, rationals, and engineers.

Well, I certainly fancy myself as most of these. I tend not to think myself the inventor of new ideas...but I DO see myself as being an innovator for the application OF them. I like to own, be the originator, of things. I also have a tendency to rules lawyer. (At least I used to, when I was of the mindset that playing to win was the more important half of the equation.) I was ALWAYS a highly-adventurous child, and I most CERTAINLY am a visionary. So basically most of these do define me.

ENTPs are quick to see complex interrelationships between people, things, and ideas. These interrelationships are analyzed in profound detail through the ENTPs auxiliary function, introverted thinking (Ti). The result is an in-depth understanding of the way things and relationships work, and how they can be improved.

Oh, yes. Most certainly. I see the strings of people, and how they are woven. However...the thing is, I see these things for others. I've NEVER been able to integrate myself into them. It's actually been a point of frustration in my life. Imagine having near-perfect clarity of...everything. A seeming omnipotence for how humans work, and social interactions, and seeing others happy and knowing how they got there and understanding it and having everything there. Knowledge. Understanding.
...But being stuck on the outside, unable to apply it for yourself. (It should be noted that while I've never been diagnosed [mostly out of choice], I've been suspected of having high-functioning autism most of my life, which may contribute.)

To the ENTP, competence and intelligence are particularly prized, both in themselves and in other people.

However, this? Doesn't fit. Not even remotely. I couldn't care less how competent or intelligent a person is. I do care about it in myself, rather, I fear the lack of it and am always striving to make sure I have it, but that doesn't seem to really fit.

ENTPs are frequently described as clever, cerebrally and verbally quick, enthusiastic, outgoing, innovative, flexible, loyal, and resourceful.

I've been called brilliant my whole life if that matters. But verbally quick? No, not really. If I've got a speech? I'll nail it. I'm a masterful actor if I've memorized my script. But if I've run through my lines yet don't have them down? Heck no. I suck. Again, problems not present online. My typing speed I suppose does make me verbally quick, because I've got an insanely-high WPM count. I do see myself as incredibly flexible, EXTREMELY loyal (I do NOT like breaking my word, and seeing people I care about drift away HURTS), and am incredibly resourceful, soyeah, there's that.

ENTPs are motivated by a desire to understand and improve the world they live in. They are usually accurate in sizing up a situation. They may have a perverse sense of humor and sometimes play devil's advocate, which can create misunderstandings with friends, coworkers, and family. ENTPs are ingenious and adept at directing relationships between means and ends. ENTPs devise fresh, unexpected solutions to difficult problems. However, they are less interested in generating and following through with detailed plans than in generating ideas and possibilities.

Okay, this is spot-on.

In a team environment, ENTPs are most effective in a role where they can draw on their abilities to offer deep understanding, a high degree of flexibility, and innovative solutions to problems.

I guess? I really suck at teamwork in real life, and in mafia games, I'm generally best at smoothing things out, so maybe, maybe not.

The ENTP regards a comment like "it can't be done" as a personal challenge, and, if properly motivated, will spare no effort to discover a solution.

This one's definitely true, though.

A ENTP could consider everything above to be only ones personal interpretation.

Well...yeah.

Inventors are introspective, pragmatic, informative, and expressive.

For certain definitions, yes. I'm highly pragmatic, but also highly stubborn. I generally am really good at giving good info, but I have to deliver it effectively. (My words are always helpful, it's just that they have to be coherent in-speech and readable online.) And expressive, heck yeah, I'm a ridiculously large ham in real life if you give me the chance.

They can become highly skilled in functional engineering and invention.

Well, I am pursuing a degree in engineering, so there's that. Not sure drafting is the type of engineering they're talking about, though.

Of all the role variants, Inventors are the most resistant to doing things a certain way just because it was done that way in the past.

Depends--resistant to how things were done in the past by others? Yep! I don't care. Resistant to how things have been done in the past by me? Heck no, I'm a creature of extreme habit and absolutely HATE it being broken.

Intensely curious, Inventors are always looking for new projects to work on, and they have an entrepreneurial character. Designing and improving mechanisms and products is a constant goal of Inventors.

Sure, I guess.

Though full of ideas, Inventors are primarily interested in those that can be put into action or used to make products.

Full of ideas, sure. Focusing pragmatically on only the more realistic ones becoming reality, sure. But this is for story ideas, with me as a writer. Don't think that's what they had in mind.

For example, they see product design as a means to an end, the goal being a marketable prototype.

Don't think so.

When beginning a project, they rarely start with a blueprint. Rather they are confident in their ability to find effective and pragmatic solutions during the design process.

Eh, more true than not.

Inventors tend to be laid back, nonjudgmental, and good conversationalists.

Most of the time, yeah, 'cept when my temper flares. (Also, conversationalist is only for my online self.)

They are often nonconformists who attract a circle of friends interested in their ideas or activities.

Yep!

Generally informative rather than directive in their social exchanges, Inventors are often able to explain their own complicated ideas well, and to comprehend the complex ideas of others.

Okay, this one's spot-on.

In arguments they may use debating skills, often to the significant disadvantage of their opponent.

Surprisingly, yeah.

This strategy can backfire, however, by alienating those seeking a cooperative relationship rather than a combative one.

A fact that I'm aware of, thus why this part fails since, well, I know it and try to not fight people.

Inventors are usually ingenious individuals who are capable of rising to meet the demands of challenging situations.

I say that I can. History shows that's iffy.

In work, they tend to be good leaders of pilot products that test their abilities.

I've always thought I'd make a good leader, but I don't actually see it working.

Constantly looking for new ways to do things, Inventors usually have the drive and the social skills to implement their ideas.

Drive, yes. Social skills, not so much. Not in-person, anyway.

I could go on, but you get the idea:
Probably the closest personality type to being accurate, but...not all-encompassing of me.

[mastin2]

...That. Probably shoulda been spoilered.

[mastin2]

I could go on.

Spoiler: And decided to anyway :P

Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings.[/quote] Oh, yes. YES. Sometimes, cigars are just cigar. HOWEVER, I am of the mindset that even if the cigar was meant as just a cigar, it can have meaning beyond having been a cigar...if not to the person with the cigar, then to the person perceiving the cigar.

Probably not the best metaphor, but it conveys exactly what I'm talking about. More than that, when I have reason to believe there IS subtext, I am VERY good at actually getting it, should I choose to. So good, that I've had to learn how to turn this ability off. It's often a necessity to enjoy a story. How would you feel about seeing a film for the first time, with absolutely no spoilers in advance about any aspect of it, and yet, being able to know everything about it in advance of it happening? I've had that happen by accidentally leaving it on.

...Actually. I have a perfect way of describing this.
The first Robert Downie Jr. Sherlock Holmes movie had a scene showing Sherlock's cursed-with-awesome powers. He was scanning everything in the dinner,

and couldn't shut it off

. (By the way, that he can let biases influence his scans is ALSO a part of my personality. ) In fact, that movie and how Sherlock operates in general as displayed there is basically also how I work. I plan out my attacks before I make them. When things don't go according to plan, I can improvise effectively. I'm prone to error, and can make mistakes. And sometimes, I can know the answer and just need to find a way to PROVE what I already know to be true. Plus the whole friends-helping-me angle and that I see myself as a hero who can make the tough decisions including sacrificing myself. And that I also have destructive hobbies, among them some serious addictions.

But I digress.

This intuitive play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to find the whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.

Spot on. Seriously, spot-on.

Ne allows the ENTP effortlessly to identify complex interrelationships between ideas, people, and things that are often invisible to most other personality types.

Yep!

Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea.

Holy mother of yes. Seriously, this is one of the main reasons I am verbose, and one of the largest struggles I've had as a person. To find the exact word to convey my thoughts. Often, a single word to others can take me a full sentence to find. A single sentence can be a whole paragraph. Because the words aren't there, and need to be. Or sometimes, the words simply don't exist, and I need to 'invent the words' to describe this idea that I know nobody else is going to understand.

It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them.

Yep! You actually see a lot of this in my MD theory.

Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk.

I suppose. Do note that this applies to others, and when it comes to my own decisions...I'm not nearly as good at it.

It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.

Well, I can generally tell when something's 'off', but I wouldn't call that logical inconsistency, so much as a feeling of an inconsistency existing.

In the ENTP, Ti analyzes the constant stream of information that Ne provides.

Dead-on...but note that it can and does run the other way for me, something the personality descriptor seems to fail to catch. Logical stuff can be analyzed by feeling.

Ti develops structure and reconciles any inconsistencies in the ENTP's belief system.

I suppose, but again, works vice-versa just as often if not more.

However, Ti cannot match the activity of Ne, which leads the ENTP to juggle multiple projects and theoretical enterprises at any given time, in various stages of completion.

...Alright, this one's me. Kinda obvious.

Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior.

Well, I do TRY. Not very good at succeeding, though.

Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.

Yes and oh SO yes. I am highly selfish, but...I really, really like helping others, so much so that I've often abandoned my own health in favor of trying to help others because I wanted to.

When Fe is well developed, the ENTP can foster goodwill in others, and can be seen as quite charming and loyal.

I'd like to think so, yeah.

When it is not well developed, the ENTP can be seen as aloof and unconcerned with other people's feelings.

But this one's also definitely happened.

In most ENTPs, weakness of the tertiary function can be observed in its inconsistency or lack of endurance.

If I understand this correctly, then...yes?

Si collects data in the present moment and compares it with past experiences, a process that sometimes evokes the feelings associated with memory, as if the subject were reliving it.

I've often thought myself to be a sentimental fool, so...yes?

Seeking to protect what is familiar, Si draws upon history to form goals and expectations about what will happen in the future.

Kinda? I place a strong emphasis on learning from my history as to not repeat it, and know that what happened then can happen again without taking countermeasures.

Without this function, the ENTP can be seen as unpredictable and random, but when it is well developed, the ENTP is seen as orderly and understandable.

True and true, I think.

Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined.

...Actually. This. This is uncannily close to what I've done. If you've seen me ramble about things, well...you'd know. My take on religion. My take on random objects. It's actually...really kinda scarily close.

These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.

I think this part's true, too.

Te organizes and schedules ideas and the environment to ensure the efficient, productive pursuit of objectives.

Again, I am awesome at this for others and suck at it for myself. I'm kinda getting better, but...not by much?

Te seeks logical explanations for actions, events, and conclusions, looking for faulty reasoning and lapses in sequence.

Not...really? I do try to understand things. I see everything as having happened for some reason, and do want to know what that reason is, but I don't really expect it to be particularly logical. I aim to have an explanation that makes sense to me, sure, yeah, but I'm not looking for anything faulty and certainly not in lapses in sequences. The closest I come is searching for cogdis.

Fi filters information based on interpretations of worth, forming judgments according to criteria that are often intangible.

If I understand this, sounds vaguely accurate.

Fi constantly balances an internal set of values such as harmony and authenticity.

...This one's definitely me, though.

Attuned to subtle distinctions, Fi innately senses what is true and what is false in a situation.

Yep! Though, should be noted, that I'm also really, REALLY good at figuring out that it's often a false dilemma, that there's grays involved, that there's sometimes more than two answers, that it can be both, it can be neither, it can be more complex than it seems, and such. For instance, "us or them" is an example of something that I have dissected and explained why it's not true.

Extraverted sensing focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world.

I think? I mean, I sometimes like to just look at things, and see them. Just to see them. Feel things. Just to feel things. Hear things. Just to listen to them. Sense things, just to sense them.

With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.

Well, I wouldn't call the facts brought up as being necessarily relevant, but...yes.

So further reflection is "probably the best fit, and highly accurate, but not a full encapsulation of me".

[mastin2]

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

lol.

Loling is also not exactly a town response to an accusation.

lol again.
Sorry but there is a type of accusation that is so forced that I just can't take it seriously.

Also kinda lacking the proper words to respond to this, but there's no forcedness. It IS a valid concern.

Pressure exists.
Responding to pressure is a key way to help read players.
The way you're responding to pressure doesn't look town.
When called out on it, you saying 'lol' was also not a town response, because basically, posting just a "lol" is something that, well. Kinda often comes from a scum player who simply doesn't have a response. There are town ways to respond to an idea you think is ridiculous as town. Typing 'lol' is not one of them. 'lol' has its place in a town player's vocabulary, as does the lol-emote, but not there during that time.

Know the type of response I'd have expected?
None at all.
Or if one is given?
"Meh."
"No."
"Whut?"
And the like.

Other similar not-necessarily-scum-but-definitely-not-town responses include, "You serious?" and "You joking?"

It's basically mindset/tone and all that. Town players shrug it off, knowing it's not really anything. Scum players are dismissive of it as being ridiculous.

Is this a rock-solid tell, heck no. Is it an indicator, I think so.

[mastin2]

That should've been in your academy not in this game urgh

Actually, as a personal thing, it should've been in my GTKAS. (Which you can find as the ":P" link in my sig.)

Are you describing my townplay or my sex life?

Wait, they're not the same?!?
...

Dammit!

It's basically mindset/tone and all that. Town players shrug it off, knowing it's not really anything. Scum players are dismissive of it as being ridiculous.

Is this a rock-solid tell, heck no. Is it an indicator, I think so.

"lol." looks a lot like "shrugging it off".

Except 'lol' is explicitly being dismissive of it? I'm talking about the accusation, not the initial reaction to the wagon.

Why can't mastin + majiffy both be town?

We can be and I'm considering it but I currently just so happen to find it unlikely.

sooooo...I think I might not be liking lying cat.
discuss

Can see that.

[mastin2]

From l4d2 you as scum made me eat my own sh*t, but I couldn't say the same for mastin. Maybe I'm underestimating mastin.

(You're underestimating Mastin, considering I was the scumbag pulling the strings for that entire game. How Majiffy acted and even my own death were part of my scum plan for victory. It takes a good scum player to not get lynched. It takes an amazing scum player to have your lynch be beneficial to your team as mine was.)

I get the feeling that someone is going to make a post along the lines of
"Eh 684 is pretty par for Charmeleon", so Im going to preemptively derail that by telling you to buzz off.

I'm not going to say it's pretty par for him, but I will say that beastcharizard is the type of player who becomes much easier to read when given a bit more time to read him. (Which is saying that it could be pretty par for him. )

VOTE: LC

Majiffy might actually be town.

Also, Bipolar Chemist's posting here isn't giving me the same townvibes it gave me last game. (Granted, that game I was scum, but still.)

[mastin2]

AWW I TOTALY LOOKED GOSH

Knowing Antihero, I knew what would happen, but I decided, "eh, might as well look anyway for the lulz".
I was not disappointed.

mastin let's talk about jiffy because you took your foot off the gas pedal

Forgot to comment on this before. I took my foot off the gas pedal because of others who I also trust when it comes to Jiffy giving me pause, combined with catching glimpses of what could be his town self. The read needs time to simmer over. Overall, I'd say he's still in the scum heap, but not nearly as strongly as he was; the read needs time to develop.

I played a game with you Mastin?!?! Oh shit I dont even remember!

Took me time to remember, too, since it was my mark-of-shame scumgame. (Which was mainly a mark of shame for ~reasons~. A fair number personal.)

Butyeah. This doesn't feel like the you I encountered in 172.

I probably should compile a 'readslist' again soonish.

[mastin2]

vezokpiraka
pirate mollie
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)
ZZZX (roughly equal to Doduo, though)
Doduo (notscience + Marquis)
PeregrineV

Titus
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
zabriel (might be higher, Majiffy's alignment depending)
beastcharizard
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
Wickedestjr (about on par with Majiffy in terms of waffling)
Majiffy
Bipolarchemist
MTD

Something like this. Positions VERY highly fluid, though.

[mastin2]

Whoops, space shouldn't be there. (Well, I suppose it does provide a bit of a separator between 'top half of reads' and 'bottom half of reads', but a better idea of the nulline would be zabriel/beast, below that; the space doesn't mean anything.)

[mastin2]

We should lynch LC.

I think I saw what you saw in the post that made you vote, but can you give me other posts to look at aside from that one?

(This is me, saying totally willing to.)

[mastin2]

notscience gameflaking I'm

reasonably

certain is alignment-null.

How do you catch a Chemist?

By looking at his posting under a microscope, catching the red tint of scum, and stringing him up.

/might look at Beast/Chemist later.

[mastin2]

Ok, I am at page 27.
Mollie fucking obvtowned in #660 or she is scum with mastina. Period.
#622 is creepy as fuck from Vezok. It looks like whiteknighting or defense of a buddy.
I have noticed your takeover GS. I will meet you halfway and unvote. Before we can take over, you have to convince me you are town. The similar reaction to Mollie's post is a good start.
I think Mastin/Majiffy is t v s or s v s. They didn't quarrel like this in house party ever and they were both town.

By itself, this post is alone

Throw in the follow-throughs (rather, lack thereof) where you get...

VOTE: Casper, the scummy ghost
Doduo, I will follow up after I finish reading.

I want Vezok strung up.

VOTE: Unvote with a hint of smartassery that the mod didn't get buut we love him anyway

...And I'm decently convinced Titus is scum, here.

[mastin2]

(Also, basically hugely skimming Beast's posts, but...well. They haven't really been looking good to me. Quite the opposite, in fact.)

[mastin2]

Mastin are you finally ready to lynch the Doduo thing yet like I tried to 20 pages ago?

Nope, not really.

Someone explain a mastin townread to me, 'cause she's still giving me all of the scumvibes.

When I'm town, I just kinda exude this aura of townniness. zMuffinman called it my whimsy.

...Though while we're at it, I would love someone with an LC townread to tell me why, since I am in a desperate need of a refresher there and is giving me scumvibes in the posting I'm seeing.

can you read through the whole thread first before posting titus? you are having fragmented reads which arent very good

This, basically this, is why I have that very strong concern about her.

[mastin2]

Mastin, I don't see anything wrong with LC's posting at all.

It's not a matter of not seeing anything wrong. It's a matter of seeing something right. I need that.

(And I can buy Titus being town, btw. Not sold on it, of course, but I can at least

buy

it right now.)

He does look town but majiffy move looked.. weird enough.

Majiffy's felt weird the whole game, thus why he's not really left onto the positive side of null. He might be on his way there, circumstances depending; that read needs time to develop properly. Gun to head, though?

Doduo, LC, ZZZX, Mastin, Saki

Scum, that just so happens to be bussing a single scum partner this particular game. (LC.)

[mastin2]

Unless I missed a neon mason claim, fuck off not being bullied.

You kinda have, since basically every name who works well with Vezok (myself included) is saying the same thing, that he is town.

(Or, y'know, Perpetual Nonsense claimed actual mason with him. :/)

I don't really have any interest in lynching Doduo in the near future after that stream of posts.
I have no interest in a Titus wagon right now. Granted, I haven't seen her making terrible points against me in the last few Days and its possible that when she gets around to reposting them, I will want to vote the crap out of her. But not now. Titus is being given a 2nd chance to town it up. Now...I will say that I may be coming around to Majiffy scum. Maybe mastin is getting into my head or her wailing encouraged me to pay more attention to Majiffy's posts which I succinctly found dubious. Be it what it may, I am sort of ok with wagoning Majiffy today. Also Im back to waffling on the cat, would plausibly vote them right now.

Okay, AP's either blatantly sheeping/parotting me or just town. (Lean the latter since not all of these things are obvious.)

[mastin2]

Mastin: If you had a 1x Vig shot, who would you vig and why?

I'm not exactly the type of person to do well with vig shots (I kinda am much better at their opposite ), but if I had one, it'd probably be on MTD.
-Though the read is slightly stale, he's been a fairly consistent scumread of mine.
-His vig would give the town a fairly great deal of info, regardless of it being town or scum.
-If he were to be town, he wouldn't be a player I'd particularly miss. (Whereas if I vigged a town-Jiffy, I'd feel incredibly bad.)

I picked up on it though and even tried to get PN to soft it to me : P

Was I the only one here who didn't pick up the mason claim and just, y'know, had them both as town because I was reading them as town?

(And, yeah, AP's def-town, here. He's too much in my head to be scum.)

[mastin2]

I mean, basically the only dissonance is in ZX, who I fancy myself as being able to read fairly well, and think rather strongly to be town. It's not flashes of town scattered throughout; it's consistently showing town, with only flashes of scum to so much as give shadows of doubt.

[mastin2]

Let's try a readslist off of that, then.

vezokpiraka
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
pirate mollie
Titus
ZZZX
Doduo (notscience + Marquis)
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)
PeregrineV
Bulbazak zabriel
beastcharizard
Bipolarchemist
Wickedestjr
Majiffy
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
MTD

Something like this.

[mastin2]

(FTR, that makes the lynch list be within {beast, Bipolar, Wicked, Majiffy, LC, MTD} for me, in that I see four of 'em being scum. Majiffy/LC/MTD are my guess for 3/4, but I'm not sure Wickedest would be the fourth. One of the more null two players could as a result be scum, but eh, cross that bridge when we come to it and all that.)

[mastin2]

I dunno, 70, 80%? It's not at "as confident as I will allow myself to be" levels, nor weak as to be "waffles everywhere"; best description I have is that I'm decently confident in them and think they're a solid starting point.

[mastin2]

Sure.

VOTE: Lying Cat.

[mastin2]

So I took the time to skim all four's iso. Wicked has a TON of interactions with all three, and all three have a ton of interactions with one another, in particular Wicked. And I also found this:

Vote Count 1.2

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 2 (Titus, mastin2)
Lying Cat - 2 (ZZZX, Guilty Gunsmith)
mastin2 - 1 (Perpetual Nonsense)
MTD - 1 (Wickedestjr)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 5 (vezokpiraka, Doduo, Lying Cat, Majiffy, MTD)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, Speedy Saki, zabriel

I don't think it's coincidental that all three of LC, Majiffy, and MTD are here like that. More than that, while this should logically make me think Wicked is town, I also happen to not think so and that this is all three scumbuddies piling on, either just for the heck of it or because they figured Wicked was their weakest link.

[mastin2]

While we're doing VCA......

Vote Count 1.4

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 2 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD)
MTD - 5 (Wickedestjr, Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 3 (Doduo, Lying Cat, Majiffy)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

Note the MTD wagon forming. Wicked was on it at the beginning, when MTD was in no danger. Yet now, he was.

Vote Count 1.5

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 4 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD, Majiffy, Wickedestjr)
MTD - 4 (Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 2 (Doduo, Lying Cat)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

And then a wagon forms on me, with Majiffy there and Wicked having switched off of MTD onto me.

The crash interrupted things, but when Lying Cat returned, we get this.

I'm a day neighborizer. I day neighborized all of you. The qt can be found at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5911804
Also, we, the hydra, need to discuss reads, but I distinctly remember mastin and GG being our strongest reads. Mastina is scum, GG is town.

Also calling me scum.

[mastin2]

So...I guess it actually

could

be all four of them.
Eh, probs-not since the days of Mastin catching the entire scumteam on D1 have long-since passed, but it's my best guess right now.

[mastin2]

I don't see how you are concluding that Majiffy, LC, and MTD are all scum together for being on the Wicked wagon.

Actually, it's the other way around, me concluding that Wicked's more likely scum for Majiffy, LC, and MTD all being on the wagon like that. And as I said, it's not just VCA. Do a triple-iso of the three, and an iso of Wicked. (Or a couple of dual-isos. Point is, read all four of 'em together.) Their interactions seem...well, awfully buddy-buddy, in a scum-attempting-to-not-look-buddy-buddy kind of way.

I guess its possible they decided to go for epic distancing, but I dont see how this conclusion is particularly likely.

Thus why I'm probably wrong, but I don't have any better ideas.

If Wicked flips town, can I hve your axe for Saki?

Only if MTD also flipped town, and even then that'd be an iffy commitment. Maybe a knife instead of an ax?

All scum bussing WickedDest for fun? Plausible.
All scum then counterwagoning Mastin2 for the dunk? Bzzzt. Nope. Not happening. You dont just orchestrate an elaborate distacning act then hop off it and all counterwagon town together with zero drama.

I don't see why not. I mean, I can def see not agreeing and thinking it implausible (it is, it's just that it's the best guess I've got), but impossible? Nah.

Mastin I think we should work to sorting out Majiffy, but not Today. Over night or Tomorrow. If he IS scum, hes still helping us lynch LC and I want to give him a chance.

Well, yeah. That goes without saying.

[mastin2]

Oh, heck with it.
I know there's a wagon there already, but I feel like voting there anyway.
VOTE: MTD.

Thanks for confirming my scumread on you.
VOTE: Mastin

Unvote. Vote: mastin2

I mean...

You have to admit.

It is kinda uncanny that the minute I vote for MTD, both Majiffy and Wicked switch onto me to essentially single-handedly create an MTD counterwagon.

[mastin2]

This Saki wagon is, quite bluntly, scum-driven.
(Hey, Majiffy, you've finally gotten me so much as remotely interested in lynching Doduo. But they're still far, FAR more likely town than not, soyeah.)

[mastin2]

they certainly are planning something though. implies daytalk coordination (owing to the sudden orchestration after the site outage)

I kinda suspected as much, given earlier wagon trends I pointed out. It also makes sense if the scum have an inventor that they'd need daytalk to coordinate its usage.

[mastin2]

Mastin is too much of a calculated thinker as either alignment for this to be anything but a ploy.

What. Calculated thinker as scum, HECK yeah. I'm the master plotter, the chessmaster, the puppeteer, of games, a master planner when mafia. Though my play by necessity will require spontaneity, that falls under the tactics of dayplay rather than the strategy of the game, meaning they're just the specifics OF the bigger picture stuff.

When has my townplay EVER been calculated thinking? Like, I'll cook up gambits, but those are often made on a whim, and while thought out in detail once I have them enter my mind, are far from calculated in that they are littered with errors and things that I didn't think would happen and things not going to plans and such because my town self doesn't have the pieces my scum self does. I'll try to plan winning strategies in the home stretch for towns, but I suck at it and while I'll initiate the effort, it's often others I let finish it 'cause I kinda suck at grasping the details.

My townplay is the antithesis of calculated.

This game is Mastin deliberately trying to subvert her scum meta because of all the players that she's familiar with.

I'll fully admit, were I to be scum, I'd want to be playing like I am in this game. It's casual, it's relaxed, and I've felt like I've nailed everything about me yet have kept things far more healthy than they were before. I'd hope that this approach could get me to actually slip past the radars of players who have accuracy reading me. And I'd dream of a scummy for having pulled off a masterfully-crafted manipulation where this lightheartedness won me the game, and I played at that level. Alas, not this game. I dream of being able to pull this off as scum, but nope, not there yet. There's a difference between wanting to subvert a scum meta and actually managing to do so. It worked in L4D mainly because I was subverting my meta in ways that were on a grand scale: not my posts, but my approach to the game. Here, for me to be scum, I'd have to have subverted my meta on a subtle, minute, precise scale, via subverting my meta and hitting every single point of a town-me without hitting any point of a scuMastin.

Can near-guarantee you that I'll be at that level before the end of the year, but right now in this game, heck no.

Who are the scum driving it?

While it COULD be Duduo (in theory), well, I really didn't like your vote.

Coulda sworn there were more votes on Saki.

She's posturing to fucking distract.

Except none of what I talk about is distracting? I do side-notes, I push theories, but they always hold relevance to what I'm going on about. Like, I thought that a Saki wagon would be a scumdriven counterwagon to the LC wagon.

Majiffy just got off the Lying Cat wagon, which you are on. Please explain "scum-driven".

You just succinctly said it better than I could. Hopping off the LC wagon, when the LC wagon isn't scumdriven and the sudden interest in lynching Saki seems to be distinctly scum-driven.

[mastin2]

Calculated insofar as you don't make this many dumb mistakes and poor plays in one day phase.

Uh-huh. Sure I don't.

While it COULD be Duduo (in theory), well, I really didn't like your vote.

Like this fence-squatting bullshit.

There's no fence-sitting involved? Doduo's been a rock-solid townread of mine. The push on Saki placed a dent in Doduo, weakening the read slightly, to the point where while I still strongly believe Doduo to be town, I'm no longer absolutely sure of it.

I was a motivating factor in that wagon even becoming viable.

The only part you played in that wagon being viable is AP going, "Hey, Majiffy, you scumread LC, right?" and your vote having been there. (So saying you're a motivating factor in that wagon's viability is a MASSIVE exaggeration.) Yet you hopped off just as it was gaining steam, and...are still off. The wagon became viable, you hopping off of it reduces its viability. The players hopping onto it are clearly doing so with a town motive. The player who hopped off the wagon (i.e., you) hopped off...
...Why?

As I said. LC wagon towndriven, counterwagon scumdriven.

[mastin2]

Apparently my alignment changed when I switched from LC to Saki.

Not exactly. You went from 'maybe scum, strongly thinking scum' into 'almost certainly scum'.

But also Mastin was scumreading me when I was pushing the LC wagon that she jumped on.

Yes. Explicitly. I actually had my read on you greatly weakened (to "might be town", even!) because of it, but the strong possibility of a weak bus overrides that.

Because what have you done to push LC's lynch other than having placed your vote down? Aside from maybe a one-liner about "Read LC's iso"? Where's the case, the push, the drive to lynch LC? Where's the strong cases being raised up? Things townJiffy does. Things even a scum Majiffy will do, but on town players. Things that you've done for some players...but not LC.

But the LC wagon wasn't scum-driven.

Yes. Because your vote on LC was a throwaway vote (see above), the first on the wagon and with no effort to have it gain traction. You created the wagon; you've done nothing to

DRIVE

the wagon.

And the one vote Saki wagon is.

And still thinking yes. Because you weren't the first voter. You have put effort into it. You have raised points about Saki. You have been pushing them. You've been driving Saki, and even made it into a counterwagon to LC.

[mastin2]

Uh-huh. Sure I don't.

This is a scum response people.

Eh, it used to be one, then I got more expressive as scum and lost some expressiveness as town and gained a lot of snark and a fair amount of deadpan and a MASSIVE amount of bitterness and cynicism and whatnot and began to channel a little bit more of those who had that kind of a response to things like that.

I'm scum when I'm disagreeing with you, but when you want my vote or cooperation you start treating me like town.

Except I always treat my scumreads as if they're town? Like, I don't think I am wrong, here, but if I were, then you and I being on the wrong page would be bad and I'd want you to be working with me and to work with you and treating you like scum is generally counter-productive to that.

If I hadn't hopped on LC I doubt anyone would have had their attention drawn to the posts in question that made the wagon happen.

Well aside from this being utterly false (as proven by the fact that I saw it and only didn't comment on it because your vote spoke first), you're deflecting the points I raised rather than addressing them.

And the wagon had been stagnating, I wasn't hopping off "as it was gaining steam".

Know when the Lying Cat wagon began forming?

Yesterday.

No, seriously.

VOTE: Lying Cat
Doduo, mastin and I are in for it and I think we're all town. Majiffy is in for it and I sort of feel good about that even if there is a chance hes bussing here.

One freakin day ago.
ONE.
DAY.

Five players haven't checked in since that time. (Including...Lying Cat, the wagoned. So there's no reaction from the wagonee, even.)
Out of 17.

How, exactly, was the wagon stalling?

[mastin2]

Because what have you done to push LC's lynch other than having placed your vote down? Aside from maybe a one-liner about "Read LC's iso"? Where's the case, the push, the drive to lynch LC? Where's the strong cases being raised up? Things townJiffy does. Things even a scum Majiffy will do, but on town players. Things that you've done for some players...but not LC.

"Things Majiffy does as either alignment, shockingly missing! How scummy!"

No. Things Majiffy will do towards scumreads-as-town absent,
AND which Majiffy-as-scum will do towards town players but typically not scumbuddies.

I.e., your interaction with LC is

EXACTLY

the type of interaction scuMajiffy has with a scumbuddy.

Prove me wrong by voting LC and supporting that wagon like you said you did.

[mastin2]

"I was about to agree with Majiffy's obv joke post that shows I am not paying attention to the gamestate, interested in scumhunting, or otherwise worth a damn"

(There is a distinct lack of LC vote in this post*.)

Spoiler: *

Basically, I have no doubts that Majiffy's reasoning here is real. I sincerely doubt he saw this as town and has played it the way he has. Instead, I think he saw it as scum, and decided to distance with LC. If LC went down, he could claim credit for having started the wagon; if LC didn't go down, no harm done. It also puts him in the position where if an LC wagon DOES begin to form, Majiffy holds the power to help dismantle it, by hopping off and robbing it of a vote.

Now enter the talks about Saki. Several players show interest in wagoning there, even if not voting. I know this to be a fact; many people have had that Sakiscumread. So a wagon on there would become viable...especially with Doduo having jumpstarted it. So, then Majiffy joins it. It can draw attention because multiple people have Saki as a scumread. It can offer a rival wagon to LC, because some on the LC wagon also have a Sakiscumread. Thus, it can offer competition to the LC wagon, rivaling and maybe even surpassing it, because that's the aura Majiffy picked up about things.

[mastin2]

(On the one hand, I don't buy the AtE even remotely and it screams BS distraction meant to look good and throw us off.
On the other hand, I feel like a jerk for typing that up.

In either scenario, though, I think the offense has done as much productively as it possibly could, in that continuing this discussion will be anti-town his alignment regardless, so I'm backing down from that train of thought.)

[mastin2]

(Btw, it's times like this that I sometimes wish I had a neighborhood and/or a hydra partner, 'cause there is one thought I had that would be follow-through that I want to not forget and keep in mind but which I don't really want to clutter the thread with. If I had a QT, I could just dump the thought in there and bring it up at a later time if it proved still relevant, but since I don't, I've got the choice of saying it or not saying it and hoping I remember. This note serves as option C, half of both, which means half the ups of both and ~75% of the downs of both. )

[mastin2]

(On the one hand, I don't buy the AtE even remotely and it screams BS distraction meant to look good and throw us off.
On the other hand, I feel like a jerk for typing that up.

(My good sense is telling me Majiffy is scum, but my feelings disagree)

It's actually the opposite for me. Good sense says Majiffy could be town (thanks to a few things here and there), overwhelming feelings say he's scum.

In either case, still tabling it, still dropping it, still not pursuing it, let's focus elsewhere like back onto LC.

[mastin2]

I'm still not seeing a vote for your biggest scum read here Mastin.

That's because you're not; you're third. (Admittedly, fluidity between the top-3 is decently-strong, but still.)

I'm not going to let myself be distracted from LC, since I think losing focus here is incredibly pro-scum.

[mastin2]

Who is your third, already assuming me and LC? And why don't I know this? And why does it seem like you've spent all game arguing Majiffy-Scum and almost no time at all arguing LC-scum or ???-scum if I'm only your third strongest scumread?

MTD. And I've argued MTD scum before; my iso had points which you dismissed. (I also emphasized this in the VCA.) The reason that I haven't argued LC scum is that honestly he's not my strongest scumread; that'd actually be MTD. (The player I have the least-waffly read on.) But I'm on the LC wagon because he is a strong scumread and sheeping AP.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: Awful lot about MTD for not having pushed him.

mastin not so much, her posting didn't get any better, just more...
VOTE: mastin
I also don't like vezok's hop onto my wagon.

Any one of these three wouldn't be a problem. Any combo of two (or all three) creates problems. Vezok hopped onto MTD's wagon--fine to dislike, except Vezok's previous vote was on me, who MTD just voted rather than voting for Vezok. He votes the person Vezok is also scumreading strongly.

My posting doesn't get any better--not true, but fine. It also hasn't gotten worse, just more of it as MTD said. That'd be fine if MTD had a marked scumread of me, OR if MTD left the comment at just that. But MTD's previous thoughts on me were, "This isn't like either of Mastin's games I've played with her, but it's especially not like her scumgame", last I checked. Meaning that if my posting was weird-but-maybe-town and hadn't changed, MTD's position also wouldn't have changed.

The read begins.

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 4 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD, Majiffy, Wickedestjr)
MTD - 4 (Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 2 (Doduo, Lying Cat)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

Whoah. I'm actually a counterwagon! MTD had five votes (forget who the fifth was--I can only think of Wicked being the vote changer, though), and with my unvote, now has only three.

Thing about it is that I don't remember not liking Speedy Saki (quite the opposite), vezok's my strongest townread, and AP's probably town (but eh), compared to a wagon where the only townread is Perpetual Nonsense and I've voted two of 'em and have been vaguely scumreading the third. I mean, I don't want to get all egotistical on ya, but, well...kinda hard not to think two scum there.

I point out VCA for the first time, noting the dueling wagons.

Hm, I don't remember much, but obviously I am being wagoned...
I'll be rereading.

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

I press him immediately upon my return.

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

lol.

Loling is also not exactly a town response to an accusation.

And follow-through.

This doesn't really feel like a town response to realizing you're being wagoned.

lol.

Loling is also not exactly a town response to an accusation.

lol again.
Sorry but there is a type of accusation that is so forced that I just can't take it seriously.

Also kinda lacking the proper words to respond to this, but there's no forcedness. It IS a valid concern.

Pressure exists.
Responding to pressure is a key way to help read players.
The way you're responding to pressure doesn't look town.
When called out on it, you saying 'lol' was also not a town response, because basically, posting just a "lol" is something that, well. Kinda often comes from a scum player who simply doesn't have a response. There are town ways to respond to an idea you think is ridiculous as town. Typing 'lol' is not one of them. 'lol' has its place in a town player's vocabulary, as does the lol-emote, but not there during that time.

Know the type of response I'd have expected?
None at all.
Or if one is given?
"Meh."
"No."
"Whut?"
And the like.

Other similar not-necessarily-scum-but-definitely-not-town responses include, "You serious?" and "You joking?"

It's basically mindset/tone and all that. Town players shrug it off, knowing it's not really anything. Scum players are dismissive of it as being ridiculous.

Is this a rock-solid tell, heck no. Is it an indicator, I think so.

Twice.

vezokpiraka
pirate mollie
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)
ZZZX (roughly equal to Doduo, though)
Doduo (notscience + Marquis)
PeregrineV
Titus
Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)
zabriel (might be higher, Majiffy's alignment depending)
beastcharizard
Lying Cat (Jingle + sthar8)
Wickedestjr (about on par with Majiffy in terms of waffling)
Majiffy
Bipolarchemist
MTD

Something like this. Positions VERY highly fluid, though.

Here he is at the bottom.

(FTR, that makes the lynch list be within {beast, Bipolar, Wicked, Majiffy, LC, MTD} for me, in that I see four of 'em being scum. Majiffy/LC/MTD are my guess for 3/4, but I'm not sure Wickedest would be the fourth. One of the more null two players could as a result be scum, but eh, cross that bridge when we come to it and all that.)

Where he remains.

So I took the time to skim all four's iso. Wicked has a TON of interactions with all three, and all three have a ton of interactions with one another, in particular Wicked. And I also found this:

Vote Count 1.2

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 2 (Titus, mastin2)
Lying Cat - 2 (ZZZX, Guilty Gunsmith)
mastin2 - 1 (Perpetual Nonsense)
MTD - 1 (Wickedestjr)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 5 (vezokpiraka, Doduo, Lying Cat, Majiffy, MTD)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, Speedy Saki, zabriel

I don't think it's coincidental that all three of LC, Majiffy, and MTD are here like that. More than that, while this should logically make me think Wicked is town, I also happen to not think so and that this is all three scumbuddies piling on, either just for the heck of it or because they figured Wicked was their weakest link.

And I bring up his iso and some more VCA.

While we're doing VCA......

Vote Count 1.4

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 2 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD)
MTD - 5 (Wickedestjr, Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 3 (Doduo, Lying Cat, Majiffy)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

Note the MTD wagon forming. Wicked was on it at the beginning, when MTD was in no danger. Yet now, he was.

Vote Count 1.5

Bipolarchemist - 1 (PeregrineV)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (Titus)
mastin2 - 4 (Perpetual Nonsense, MTD, Majiffy, Wickedestjr)
MTD - 4 (Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith, vezokpiraka, mastin2)
Titus - 1 (pirate mollie)
Wickedestjr - 2 (Doduo, Lying Cat)
Not Voting: beastcharizard, Bipolarchemist, zabriel, ZZZX

And then a wagon forms on me, with Majiffy there and Wicked having switched off of MTD onto me.

The crash interrupted things, but when Lying Cat returned, we get this.

I'm a day neighborizer. I day neighborized all of you. The qt can be found at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5911804
Also, we, the hydra, need to discuss reads, but I distinctly remember mastin and GG being our strongest reads. Mastina is scum, GG is town.

Also calling me scum.

Actually, it's the other way around, me concluding that Wicked's more likely scum for Majiffy, LC, and MTD all being on the wagon like that. And as I said, it's not just VCA. Do a triple-iso of the three, and an iso of Wicked. (Or a couple of dual-isos. Point is, read all four of 'em together.) Their interactions seem...well, awfully buddy-buddy, in a scum-attempting-to-not-look-buddy-buddy kind of way.

Mastin I think we should work to sorting out Majiffy, but not Today. Over night or Tomorrow. If he IS scum, hes still helping us lynch LC and I want to give him a chance.

Well, yeah. That goes without saying.

And follow-through here. (This also gives reasoning to be off your wagon.)

Oh, heck with it.
I know there's a wagon there already, but I feel like voting there anyway.
VOTE: MTD.

Thanks for confirming my scumread on you.
VOTE: Mastin

Unvote. Vote: mastin2

I mean...

You have to admit.

It is kinda uncanny that the minute I vote for MTD, both Majiffy and Wicked switch onto me to essentially single-handedly create an MTD counterwagon.

And I explain my suspicion of the timing again.

[mastin2]

Like, I've put more reasoning behind my MTD read than any other player has on MTD. Yeah, you've got more reasoning backing my scumread, but counterbalancing that is ALSO that I have reason to not hold strong belief in said scumread thanks to some maybe-town indicators, which I also explain.

[mastin2]

does any1 else see this too

Eh, the exchange was fairly meh. Not good, but not bad either.

Mastin how sure are you on mollie town?

Fairly strongly.

dear Mastin: ZZZX is scum and mad about it. Why are you misreading this so bad?

Admittedly, ZX's emotions are a little bit iffy. Bits like his "I hate hydras" and such read as not-town.

...Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...

Overall feeling is that this is still the same ol, same ol' ZX-as-town that I know.

(And, yeah, Majiffy-townread.)

[mastin2]

Oh, geez, this won't be fun. By the time I get back, I'll have over ten pages.

I don't think it's possible to be more non-committal.

True, but I scumhunt better that way anyway.

Anyway, just popping in briefly to say that this message here is where I am.
And that I'm V/LA for all of today (day-day, not game-day) meaning that I'm gone, like...well basically right now since the message has been communicated.
Apologies for any inconveniences it'll cause.

[mastin2]

Oh, geez, this won't be fun. By the time I get back, I'll have over ten pages.

I don't think it's possible to be more non-committal.

True, but I scumhunt better that way anyway.

Anyway, just popping in briefly to say that this message here is where I am.
And that I'm V/LA for all of today (day-day, not game-day) meaning that I'm gone, like...well basically right now since the message has been communicated.
Apologies for any inconveniences it'll cause.

*grumble, grumble, I hate myself, grumble, grumble*

Ran outta time for today before getting to this game, so that means doing this'll have to wait. :/

I am still going to be kinda sorta V/LA until Thursday, doing stuff, but I'll see if I can get to here tonight. (No promises.)

[mastin2]

Yes, I know.
I've abused this game.

But college is done, which means I basically have a near-infinite amount of free time (aside from work and RL-activities and some eventual vacations) right now.
It's just that it ended today, meaning I'm kinda tired and burned out of my mafia batteries.

So tomorrow.
I try not to make promises (since I tend to break them), but...I kinda feel like making that one a promise and making tomorrow actually be tomorrow. I literally have nothing that day at all. (So the only way I wouldn't have the time is if I got distracted or if I thought that this game was too much effort to get caught up in, both of which I think I can control.)

[mastin2]

Hi, my name is Mastin, and I am the worst scum on the earth.
I've spent literally the entirety of my day (admittedly only 12-14 hours, since I woke up shortly before noon and my morning routine takes an hour) here on MS.net running various errands, and getting most (though not even close to all--like, there's still a ton of Tales stuff for me to handle) of it taken care of......yet the place I need to focus on the absolute most (right here) is the place that ended up dead-last on the list. :/

It's only 22 pages to read, and that's only a little bit of light reading, so I should be able to tackle it given an hour or two (shouldn't take me much longer than that), but the thing is...I have work tomorrow. Early. Meaning I should be getting to bed. Which wouldn't be so much of a problem, if not for a family getogether tomorrow and/or Saturday (I'm a bit ambiguous on the details) and me working Sunday. :/

There's time gaps in there, and I'll do what I can to squeeze it in, but I feel like I'm letting you all down. (Did I promise that I'd catch up today in this game? I sorta remember saying that I'd make it an actual promise this game. Shoulda stuck with my normal policy of "no promises". Because nothing outside MS.net distracted me; I've been here all day doing stuff. It's just that I've been doing stuff in orders that probably aren't optimized, doing tasks of trivial importance nearly first and tasks of critical importance nearly last.)

I swear. College is over. My schedule's going to be normalizing. But today was too busy filled with me dealing with falling behind on the site overall. And I've got weekend V/LA. Meaning that I'm still not giving this game what it really needs, but I will be. That much, I can promise. Don't remember when deadline for this game is, but by Monday? Monday, I'll have literally nothing to do except maybe work (depends on summer shifts for my job) and play for the rest of the day. So then, I can for absolute surez play. Until then, sketchy prod-dodges as I continue to fall behind on the gamestate. :/

Sorry.
Really, REALLY sorry.
(Still town, though. )

[mastin2]

Majiffy and Mastin were so in sync and bouncing off of each other immediately. There was no conflict at all that wasn't driven by scum me. If yhey both are town, they wouldn't feel the need for a pissing contest.

Ironically enough, if Majiffy's town (probably? I dunno), then the person most strongly driving the conflict right now is you.

[mastin2]

(Yes, that is where I am.
Computer's probably dieing on me.
Fair warning that I'm not only on a borrowed desktop, but also with family right now so no guarantees I get caught up. Least of all when there's an extra nine or so pages in one day.)

[mastin2]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: titus

Considering this, given her posting on Majiffy/myself.

(Also, Snork/AP are town.)

Antihero did you leak some chemicals into this game? We have two normally rational playerslpts going fuckapalooza

Also town.

MTD still looks like scum, BTW.

ZX still doesn't, but eh.

/50.

[mastin2]

I told Snork that I thought there was 1-2 scum in Titus/Mollie/Majiffy/mastin but I dont know. Now thinking maybe it could all be town.

Could be.

Mollie's town, you're town, not really feeling Majiffy as scum (granted, not really feeling him as town), and Titus could be town even though her posting's kinda tripping my scumdar.

(Kinda surprising how easily your mind checks out of a game in only nine days.)

Stale. Vote ZZZX instead.

Stale doesn't mean wrong.

The LC wagon actually looked fairly organic to me.

(Doduo also hilariously obviously town.)

Beast looking town as well.

@Titus: Why are you town on mastin?

As town: she correctly picked up on me being town, from general aura and the boatload of 'crumbing I've done.
As scum: buddying me, because it's beneficial to her.

Pick one.

A quick peak at Lying Cat's ISO suggests this is a good wagon so I feel comfortable parking my vote while I try to sift through this.
VOTE: Lying Cat

This guy's

hilariously

town.

ac1983fan is already hilariously town \o/

Hi, AP.
(GG's town. Seriously, seriously town.)

[mastin2]

You call it a 'feels list' as if your list was too careless for me to scrutinize rather than a well thought out 'reads list'.

Kinda? It's posting how I feel. Which changes a lot, flowing fluently. It's about as well thought-out as my posting is. (Not very. ) It's perfectly scrutinizable, though, because it's something that you can analyze and also which I can go over.

Your four definite town reads at that time were the four players at the very top of the list. And three of the four players at the very bottom of the list were players you had or eventually voted pre-outage. So you clearly put

some

thought into this.

Yeah. They're loosely ordered most-town to least-town, as I feel when making the post. Most-town to least-town is not the same as townreads-here, scumreads-there top-bottom; you can be at the very bottom of my list and still be a townread of mine for instance. (Jingle was in AP's game.) I do struggle with exact placements, but I just ultimately say, "screw it, these people go there and those people go here" 'cause that's what I feel like at the time of the post.

But you're largely focusing on a semantics debate, especially one which has been established as something that I'm now doing across the site in all of my games. (Easily verifiable; AP's game was basically the catalyst for it when I realized its effectiveness.)

Fast forwarding to 768, 875, and 876, you again have me listed among the bottom four slots and have proposed a scum team including me. What has changed since you previously read me as 'vaguely suspicious'?

Y'know, the analysis in those posts where I conclude you're likely scum?

Okay, you have convinced me that you didn't forget about the game. But I am not convinced that you actually considered it when reading me.

You cannot separate the two. If I have a game in mind, it influences my read. I wrote a dang MD article on this. (No, seriously. "On Meta And Ongoing Games" is about this.)

Auntie Ethyl, why are you so mean to me?

I already told you before, I might be Auntie Ethyl.

Majiffy, I'm Auntie Ethyl but stripped out on acid, just tell me you're auntie Ethyl and I'll know who is my favorite mindfuck.

Might be able to check my role PM to see if I can figure out if me with acid can create something else, but, well...
/never needed to take ANY Chemistry class, at all, in her entire schooling. (I know more about Chemistry from Mythbusters than from anything else. )

Sure, for the latter part of this game he has been playing total shit (discrediting his own read, self voting), but shit play =/= scum.

Well, it can be from a player like Majiffy. Really depends, though, on the circumstances. Which I haven't had the time to really process. Could be scum, could be town with me on the bad-reads end, could be town with him on the bad-reads end; I lean against the first and at this stage might be meh enough to think the second.

(Also, Saki's still town.)

cat people I was waiting for something wonderful but I feel like you are just repeating the same thing. no new thoughts?

For fucks sake mollie I'm 20 pages behind! What the hell do you want from me? Jingle's off playing with himself so you're stuck waiting for me to catch up. I have been nothing but transparent about this, and we have ten fucking days until deadline. Can I get a little fucking patience here?

(In other news, this is still scum.)

Probably going to be doing family stuff soon (doing S'mores), soyeah, this might be it for the moment.
(Also, apologies; I don't think I'm organizing my walls in the most readable fashion.)

[mastin2]

Which means 1390 and beyond.

I'm aware the deadline's Tuesday morning. (I did the math.)
I'll be caught up well before then. (Hey, I just did...ten pages, right? In spite of being highly distracted by other stuff, and in a decently short timeframe. I'm going to get caught up.)

[mastin2]

*grumble, grumble, gripe, gripe, all these games with there deadlines so close, grumble, grumble, gripe gripe*

If you don't see me posting, send me encouraging messages, be it PM or whatever, 'cause it's not going to be my alignment, but rather, my mindset influencing me. (Basically, I can feel a "crash" about to happen, in which my workload is such that I can technically handle what I put on my plate...but that a combination of apathy and me lying to myself puts me in a very negative mindset. In essence, I am having computer issues right now, and they are interfering with things quite significantly, but not NEARLY as much as would justify my absence for the entirety of today.)

This game's actually the game I feel most interested in posting in (dunno why, might be 'cause I'm soloing and that means I don't have the excuse of "eh, I have a hydra buddy who can cover for me"), surprisingly, so I'll do what I can before falling asleep. (It's 3:30 AM. I have nothing, absolutely nothing, going on tomorrow, meaning I can afford to stay up late, but I'm honestly not feeling obligated to stay up. I'm just kinda...well, up right now. I was sleepy about half an hour ago, and fighting off sleep in an attempt to play a game an hour before that [did I mention that my mental crash typically involves me still doing stuff just far less productive stuff?], but right now I might not be fully lucid but am pretty dang close to wide awake. Meaning that I might as well work on this game, since I need to catch up on a day's worth of neglect anyway. Or in this game's case, a week.)

[mastin2]

Tonal shifts don't happen overnight.

Actuallllllllllllllllllllllly...they, uh.

They can.

I'm getting really, really notorious for it, in fact. (There's a reason I'm in the process of developing a flowchart called "How To Read Mastin". It's only a prototype right now, of course, but I wrote it down and have typed up at least one draft. It's 'cause, sometimes, I'm just...well, different, in each and every game and there's no visible correlation. Other than maybe that there's no correlation, when town. [ScuMastin can.])

Doesn't mean they did. But they can.

@mastin2 - what did you think about post 175?

Well Perpetual Nonsense is town, so.

I think Mastin/Majiffy is t v s or s v s. They didn't quarrel like this in house party ever and they were both town.

How confident were you, at the time of this comment, on a scale of 1 to 10?

Thinking Titus is town for this.

@beastcharizard - How confident are you that Doduo and ZZZX are connected? And why do you think that they are connected?

Also thinking Doduo and ZX are both town for this.

(Admittedly, confbias comes into play. Butyeah. Wicked's posting here, doesn't feel sincere; it looks manipulative and without legitimate analysis done within.)

I think mastin2's VCA is completely ridiculous and confirmation bias. She said that it was probably wrong but her best guess.

Well, yeah. Still say that, btw, overall. Not feeling it as strongly. But still definitely feeling you're scum and MTD is scum and LC is scum, soyeah.

What kind of scum team plan/dynamic is that?

A slightly dysfunctional, mostly-Majiffy, partially-sthar8 (with a slice of Jingle) scumteam dynamic. Maybe with influence from my style, but doubtful since I'd be on guard for it. Did say it was unlikely! ('Specially since I'm doubting the Majiffy part.)

I found an article that you wrote regarding VCA

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, just gonna stop you there.

The thing about articles that I wrote is that I know the ins and outs of the article I wrote better than anyone else: what the advice intends rather than what it says, when the article was written versus what play is like today (the two often differing), and whatnot. I mean, if you reeeeeeeally want to go down that train of thought, more than happy to oblige, but just sayin', you'll end up lynched as a result. (Granted, I might be heading that direction

anyway

given that while you're the read I've felt the weakest about, you're also the read which I've had the least amount of doubt on, counterintuitive as that may seem.)

[mastin2]

what would an alligator do if it didn't have to lay on its stomach all day?

Give a cow and become a programmer.

(Sorry. Comic hosting joke.)

but you could start and tell me why you had us as a townread pre-mason-out because i cant think of naught but an asinine reason to townread us early on

You're really, really good at making yourself actually be town when you're town? I mean, it's not just looking town; your actions pre-claim were immediately town in contrast to your scumgames where they're immediately scum.

Mollie/Jiffy or Titus/GG

Could (and I'm thinking is) be entirely town?
(I mean, Jiffy could be scum but I have doubts, and Titus could be scum but I lean towards no.)

I think scum are refusing to bus and attempting to stall out the day.

Nah. I mean, probably not doing the opposite, either, but they're probably having some bussing and some not, depending on who's scum and who's viewed as a weak link on the scumteam and what they're hoping to accomplish and whatnot. (Like buddying, shutting down a wagon simply by placing oneself on it, etc.)

Vote Count 1.15

Marquis - 3 (beastcharizard, PeregrineV, Speedy Saki)
Guilty Gunsmith - 1 (ZZZX)
Lying Cat - 7 (mastin2, MTD, Titus, Marquis, ac1983fan, Perpetual Nonsense, vezokpiraka)
mastin2 - 1 (Wickedestjr)
Titus - 2 (pirate mollie, Majiffy)
Wickedestjr - 1 (Lying Cat)
ZZZX - 1 (Guilty Gunsmith)
Not Voting: Bulbazak

Just wanted to say, aside from MTD (and maybe Titus), the wagon on LC here looks incredibly solid. The wagon on Marquis is made up entirely of lesser-townreads, though it is a bit concerning that I don't see scum there. (Unless I had PV as null? I don't remember my read there, but I know that beast has become a townread and Saki has been a townread, soyeah.)

ZX's lone vote looks like a derp.
So does its reciprocal, AP/Snork on ZX. (It might be technically the other way around, but dunno, don't care, statement's still the same either way.)

Wicked's vote doesn't carry with it that same aura of derpness, though. It doesn't carry with it the aura of wrongtownness, either, to me.

Lying cat's recent outbursts feel somewhat town to me and Im slightly concerned they could be a town PR.

I'll believe it when I see it.

...Rather, I won't believe it, but would let it pass for a day unless I had strong reason not to. (e.g. they claim something I know is a scumclaim.)

On that note, something that I should really do is ask the mod about what non-traditional roles would flip. For instance, the inventors and their abilities; it makes a HUGE difference when it comes to claiming to know if it'll end up showing.

/59.

[mastin2]

Ever since I voiced my concern his read on me has been inconsistent.

Name a single read of mine that's been consistent. Correlation != causation. My read's inconsistent because my reads are in general inconsistent. You can point to any stage of my game and then a different and see different things, be it ten or ten-thousand posts apart from one another.

-Meta: I have played with mastin2 three times and this still does not seem like the town mastin2 that I remember.

(FTR, this is another towntell in that a scuMastin will

generally

aim for familiarity when at ever possible.)

-mastin2's VCA is ridiculous.

Sure is.
Since when has me being ridiculous been a scumtell?

mastin2 just seems like the kind of player that, as town, naturally develops her initial 'strong reads' and then tries to base everything off of those reads, rarely turning back.

I wish.

If I had the guts to follow through on my reads--right or wrong--at least I could say that I stuck to the right ones and admit to being wrong about the wrong ones.

They change far too freakin' much for me to do that. (If you

actually

were interested in my MD, you'd find my multiple references to having two golden rules. Succinctness as one, 'reads to evidence, not evidence to reads' the other.)

In another game she correctly pinned a player as scum and correctly assumed I was town solely because of my interactions with said player.

Which I'm admittedly doing this game with you and your interactions, 'cause I don't really have any better ideas.

Everyone here has played with mastin2 IIRC.

For the record, ask a hundred different players what their experience with me is, and you'll get a hundred different answers. Not saying mostly the same thing just with slightly different details, oh no. VASTLY different responses from vastly different players. (For instance, Lord Mhork hates me. People who played with me pre-2011 hate me. People who saw me in my dark games during that time hate me. Players who saw me during the games that kept me here, AKA the anti-dark games, not so much. Newbies tend to have a sometimes-quite-annoying hero-worship of me. Players I consider contemporaries if not close to me will go, "Eh, she's alright" and contemporaries like Nacho will go "she's awesome", though if you allow those close to me to give an in-depth answer, their analysis will highlight the bad and the good rather than being a one-dimensional quick reply.) Asking "is this normal from her?" is in general a waste of time, since you'll get some saying "yeah, totally", others saying, "played with her a lot, but never seen it", maybe some saying they've seen it as one alignment and not the other, maybe others saying the opposite, and among those who actually know me, a response along the lines of, "Eh, I wouldn't say it's normal nor abnormal, so much as something she does when appropriate. She's probably town anyway, though." Or similar.)

Yes because A scumreading B and then B scumreading A means A is OMGUSing B. ayup.

For the record, I agree, that shouldn't be how people perceive it.

Thing is, that's how people perceive it.

(Marquis is hilariously town, btw.)

And marquis goes from fucking quack to mastin 2.0 wtf

Hey, I told you he was town. Generally that means they have

some

trait in common with me.

Mastin if youre town vote titus with me.

I can

see

it.

Really, really can.

Not sure I believe it.

You have also said we should lynch Majiffy if LC flips scum.

Also all-but explicitly (or maybe even explicitly) said that if Majiffy flipped town, you'd lynch me, Titus. (Stuff like this is the "see".)

Guh. Tireness is beginning to kick in. :/

[mastin2]

(That's me saying I'm going to go to bed.

...As the birds begin chirping and the first signs of daylight creep in, but still, bedtime all the same.
Probably won't sleep 'til afternoon or something like that, meaning I'll likely back in only a few hours. No timetable, t hough; really depends on how much sleeo my body wants to get.)

[mastin2]

Probably won't sleep 'til afternoon or something like that, meaning I'll likely back in only a few hours.)

Yeah, about that.

It wasn't badly, but 12:15 (I'm literally just up; haven't even eaten breakfast) is still afternoon.

As it happens, not that hungry, so I'll continue getting caught up here 'til I am.

[mastin2]

I realize that few of these reads are very concrete/justified.

This after calling me out on doing exactly that?

Like, your entire case against me is, "Mastin has had inconsistencies in her reads".

...When said inconsistencies are a byproduct of said reads...not being concrete, and also not very well justified?



(I probably should read that post in more detail, but I skimmed. Soyeah, from there.)

[mastin2]

Yeah, you have 1 townread and one scum read. This looks designed not to piss anyone off or to take any strong position.

Also this.

Very strongly thinking Titus is town and Wicked is scum, here.

[mastin2]

Let's try Titus is obvtown for once. :-p

Right, so I've read Titus as town through a scumread on Wicked and her handling there.

But this is town on its own. Like...Titus

could

be posting this as scum, I guess, but it really, REALLY looks like casual, relaxed town posting.

[mastin2]

Just had to comment on this during my readthrough:

(Also beginning to get suspicious about how long it's taken Bulbazak to get content.
Me, you know why.
Why him?)

[mastin2]

ac1983fan (Bipolarchemist)- BPC gut towned, AC replaced in and sheeped the wagon on us. Not caught up yet, need more information.

(AKA Null.)

Doduo (notscience + Marquis)- gut town. Frustration reads genuine but might be null. Feels incredibly open.

(AKA Null, maybe vaguely town? )

Majiffy- Town. Open about the Doduo policy lynch in the beginning, despite it bringing a lot of attention to him. His attempt to lynch for reasons he can't discuss ITT also screams town to me, especially after having Doduo all but confirm that there is reasoning to be found there. (On a later day. We need to remember this one.)
ZZZX- Fuck if I know.

(AKA Null.)

Titus- The obsession with Ethyl, the translations early on, the fact that she isn't tunneling on only one player all makes me think Town. I'm not good at reading Titus.

(AKA Null.)

vezokpiraka- claimed mason, treat as town. Oddly, this is a large part of the reason I've been preoccupied with setup spec.
mastin2- Scum.
MTD- Null. His focus this game has largely been on himself. 1237 makes me think he might be town though. He played devil's advocate against himself, which is intriguing.

(AKA Null.)

Guilty Gunsmith (Snork + AngryPidgeon)- Town.
Speedy Saki (Saki + Metal Sonic)- I have no problems with outsourcing this read to Majiffy. When sthar8 gets back, he might have some more poignant observations.

(AKA Null.)

pirate mollie- town.
PeregrineV- Hasn't said much related to the game, but what he has said I like. I also mostly agree with his townreads, so I'm leaning town here.
Perpetual Nonsense (Bert and SXTLHGaiden)- See vezok. I'm not sure about the validity of the mason claim, but it seems like an odd fakeclaim as town.
Bulbazak (zabriel)- Replace into nothing, no content as yet.

(AKA Null, though understandably so.)

Wickedestjr- Scum. His wagon didn't hit resistance, but rather collapsed because there were a bunch of people pushing counterwagons. He never did anything to mitigate his early scummy behavior, and still isn't getting attention.
beastcharizard- This feels like beast from Enemy of my Enemy. He's misreading things and tunneling on people I think are town. I can see the thought process though. Town.

You know.

I typed this thinking I was gonna end up concluding that Jingle's scum.


...It's actually done the opposite. (:/)

Not necessarily town, but throwing my own read there into severe doubt, especially given elements of the setup spec. (I'd prefer not to quote which ones, though. /knows more about the setup than most people by virtue of role.)

[mastin2]

In other news, Wicked continues to vote MTD despite having mastin as his biggest scumread and MTD as nullscum. He mentions mastin constantly. His last mention of MTD, who he's voting, is to shoot holes in a scumteam with both him and MTD and before that it was explaining why he wasn't sure on MTD's alignment but was on mastin's. This is not the activity of a town player.
Also, the above post is fucking hilarious. He's also not doing anything to push through either of his supposed preferred lynches. The hypocrisy stinks of scum. Seriously, why is this not still a wagon?

Screw it.

I don't know who else is scum. (LC's definitely not.)

But Wicked and MTD are.

If one of those two are lynch candidates, I'll join whichever wagon's larger between them.

If neither of those two ARE lynch candidates, well. We should make them one.

VOTE: Wickedestjr.

[mastin2]

Those reads weren't meant to impress by any means. It's not designed to please, it's designed to display my thoughts.

...

Seriously.
Hypocrisy.
Scumbag.

YOUR CASE ON ME.
WICKED.
WAS ENTIRELY OFF OF MY WAY OF DISPLAYING MY THOUGHTS.

[mastin2]

Like, I know I said MTD or Wicked and chose to vote Wicked, but that post alone woulda made me vote him

anyway

.

[mastin2]

Lying Cat, I apologize in advance if you are town and put serious time/effort into this post, but it is COMPLETE GARBAGE.

(AKA, right for the wrong reasons.)

[mastin2]

I thought it was, but it seems like I'm the only one townreading you and I don't understand why.
Snork

Snork, normally, I don't stoop to levels of such assholery.

But I just can't resist.

That didn't do you so much good with Wax and enomis/Perpetual Nonsense.

(Same thing this game. Wicked's scum. MTD's very highly probable scum.)

[mastin2]

Right now, all I see is a man desperate not to have Lying Cat lynched.

Read Wicked's rant to Lying Cat.

Does that read as scumbuddy-to-scum?

No.

It reads as scum-to-town, about being caught for entirely the wrong reasons.

[mastin2]

Also, I wager there's a scum preventive role like JK out there, so targeting us with inventions right now may not be wise.

Hmm, this IS a fair point, though I wouldn't be that concerned with a JK from scum so much as a roleblocker. (JKs would also keep you from death, which would mean that one of the masons could at least receive the invention even if not use it, to confirm its existence.)

From my experience in Organic Chem I, my only worry is that inventors don't get actions in before day ends.

Submit early, submit often; an inventor can always change their target later if they choose. Really, if any player claims to be an inventor without submitting an action on any day phase (assuming said day phase is not a quicklynch), take it as a scumclaim since there's literally no reason not to have submitted aside from misunderstanding the mechanic. (Which I suppose IS a theoretical possibility, but by now, it's been brought up enough to be handedly averted.)

[mastin2]

LC's attack on Wicked without checking the facts was dumb and makes the impression it's for the sake of justify their continued vote on Wicked, which they btw never gave a case for before 1575.
I mean he even went through the thread/ISO to get those links, and failed to notice the vote-change,

which he should have been looking for

?
Also a wagon there is not happening, so why vote wicked over mastin?

Yeah, MTD's scum with Wicked; LC's town.

[mastin2]

the only person I have chemistry with is majiffy and mastina. I have them both as town but I am somewhat waffling on majiffy.

Basically, this.

The only player I have a really strong townread on is wicked.

This is gonna take some 'splainin'.

(Town, though.)

But I'm in a full blown depression-spiral right now, and we're throwing back to some of my worst days ever. Not game-related, but it's gonna be very hard not to be a complete prick for awhile.

Ouch. You have a <3 from me, 'specially since I'm going through something similar.

NOT going to call AP a moron for failing to analyze the wagon on me, nor am I going to yell at the VI's currently voting me.

To be fair, you have that right 'specially if you're town as I'm thinking.

NOT going to call wicked a hypocrite and an asshole for being vla longer than me and posting less and suggesting that i should replace for activity reasons

But howsabouts calling Wicked a hypocrite for his reads list being the exact thing he accused me of having done?

/65.

[mastin2]

I have issue with this lack of certainty. There's nothing wrong with lacking confidence, especially on day 1. However, your use of it to justify your behavior here is bothersome. You criticized my reads list for not taking many strong stances, even though it was clear that I lack confidence... just like you do. Why is it that you can be cautious, but I cannot be?

DOUBLE FREAKIN HYPOCRITE.

Why can't *I* have reads not solidified, but you can, Wicked?

[mastin2]

It is clear that a mastin2 lynch isn't happening today. I thought we had more time remaining than we actually do - less than four days left!

Unvote. Vote: Titus

And you vote Titus instead of MTD.

[mastin2]

sorry for lynching you

No you're not. You enjoyed every minute of it.

Only possible explanation for why it's becoming so dang common.



(Let's just say that there's a disturbing trend towards this. But lynching me on day ONE is a bit more extreme than the norm. Albeit only by one day. )

@mastin- IM SORRY I WANTED YOU DEAD. WHY DIDNT YOU CLAAAAAIM?

Well,
-I wasn't caught up on the game so didn't know I was being lynched,
-But if I had gotten caught up, I wasn't going to claim anyway,
-Referring back to this, I even made an early post explicitly saying I wasn't going to claim (it's right there in my iso--241/iso 21),
-And really, I 'crumbed a TON with my role where I multiple times made it kinda explicit I was an inventor intending to gift to my target--initially, I blindly selected Majiffy (that is what I meant by "he's bodyguarding me"--my very first post was a 'crumb), but later changed my mind to select vezok. Which I signaled hardcore. (Beginning at 290/30, and getting stronger with time.) If anyone was looking for the 'crumbs, they would have found them.

As for three tracker guilties:
Which do you think would be a more appropriate scummy nom, most memorable moment or best performance: town?

(Also, fun fact, I called mollie and Zx out initially, in my very early game, but backed off of them later. )

[mastin2]

Oh, and fun fact, my memory might be failing me, but I'm decently certain that my DAY ONE lynch this game is what inspired me to write the "How To Read Mastin" flowchart for Mafia with the Quickness. (In which, I also got lynched after people ignored it. On D3, butstill.)
(I still need to put in a section for the flowchart that says "YOU'RE THINKING OF LYNCHING

MASTIN

ON

DAY

ONE?!?

". )

[mastin2]

As I was rereading on D1 and came across her "lol all 3 scum are voting together" I decided I just couldn't buy it.

You couldn't buy that Mastin.
Known for being a bit egotistical.
Known for coming up with audacious scum plans.
And expecting others to think similarly to her scumgame when scum.
Thought three scum were voting her back to back?

Yes, couldn't have been more wrong (I sucked), but that it couldn't come from a town-me?

AP, that's the kind of thing that can ONLY come from a town me.

[mastin2]

You had saki in your towncore mastin.
Your reads weren't that good.

Which I fully admit.
There's a reason why I said the best I had was the INITIAL mollie/Zx scumreads. Allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll downhill from there.

You wagon d1 was comprise of 100% town
The master mastin was d1 wagoned by an all town wagon

Thus why the flowchart's important.

The content that I gave was me. The town me. Maybe a bit of a newish town me from post-Tales (and also post-House Party), but still very thoroughly me. And not just me, a town me. The absence I had, while bad, is also something that could (and frankly, given my bad habits, still CAN) be tracked as a site-wide (thus, null) thing. Me around, me absent. My posting wouldn't have changed a single bit. The bad reads are regrettable, the absence is disgraceful, but aside from those two aspects, I hold absolutely zero shame in my play this game, and am in fact proud of it. (First individual full game to have my new relaxed attitude throughout the whole game.)

Granted, those two things are not trivial things. No laughing matters. Being obvtown does no good if you don't back it up with good reads. Being absent from the game is horrible, horrible, terrible to do, absolutely a horrendous thing, I'm a terrible person for it and I really really wish I could say "lesson learned, won't happen again" but it still happens and I'm all the WORSE a human being for it since having the flaw and being unable to fix it makes it all the more bad. So I'm not casually brushing those off. I do say sorry for that, I do need to apologize for it, consistently, it is a problem and yes I need to fix it and yes I am trying (even though I am failing miserably), I am aware of it, I try to do my best in spite of it, but I do know it's a little bit much to ask of others to bear with it and I try not to make them because I KNOW that it's a flaw that is incredibly anti-town and fun-killing and frustrating when you want to play with me but aren't actually playing with me so I AM trying to fix it, but it IS hard.
...tl;dr version, I know it's an issue and know it lessens me as a person and that is one of the major faults in my play which makes me horrible since I keep on making the error, and while you don't deserve to have to bear with it, I often end up in need of asking you to anyway. :/

(But, well, probably not best to actually LYNCH me for it. 'Cause, y'know. That kinda just doesn't help. VOTES, though, votes are an excellent way to try and counter that so long as it's not enough to actually lynch me. Let me tell you, if I don't get more active and react to votes/threat of them, I'm flat-out not playing the game. )