Organic Chemistry [GAME OVER]

[Guilty Gunsmith]

The missing information from the second paragraph is that I don't believe he is bad town, though I thought that idea was fairly clear.

Explain how it "comes from a mindset that knows whats up behind the scenes" when we dont? I mean it's really that simple. We don't.

- Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

The way you give a non-committal scum read on ZZZX feels just off.

In my head, Im pretty noncommittal about everything this game. I keep waffling on the entire player base. My reads don't really match Snork's very closely. I could see pretty much anyone being scum except you/PN at this point.
-AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

But do explain how that comes across as "in the know".

- Snork

Yeah except we haven't waffled on ZZZX AP.. remember you asked me to ISO him because Sthar said I'd have an idea about him. I did. I thought he'd come up town. He didn't. I said so.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

as a show of good faith

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lying cat

enough dancing let's lynch something please

Stale. Vote ZZZX instead.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

OR YOU COULD READ THE FUCKING GAME.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

This is why I wish you weren't playing this game. Total fucking waste of space.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Come in here whining about shit that you signed up to do....

[Guilty Gunsmith]

oh my god shut the fuck up i don't care if he's attacking you badly/incorrectly he's fucking town

No, you shut the fuck up. You're not contributing jack shit and you're not reading the game and then complaining like you deserve some kind of fucking pity.

Don't be a jackass. You signed up to play. Play or get the fuck out.

Don't act like you know why we're scumreading him when you aren't even paying attention and you can't even be fucked to post.

When he flips scum, then what?

p-edit: Look, I get that. But do not take it out on everyone else. Take it up with ns. Or replace out. I would respect yall much more for having the decency to recognize when that needs to happen.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I also think I can read him pretty well. I correctly pegged him as town before and I'm not getting the same read on him here.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Snork you are spamming and harassing people.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Snork you are spamming and harassing people.

I can't believe you just said that to me. You, the spam king.

Doduo

Where are your reads at the moment, as of the last time you had them?

- Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I have things to say.

I'm not trying to harass people; I'm just trying to get some solid reads and refresh some of the stale ones. Plus I'm bored at work and sitting on the thread craving interaction. I will save my responses and let AP post them later I guess.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

@Titus: Why are you town on mastin?
@Mollie: You haven't mentioned ZZZX even once; why is that, what is your read on that? What do you think of Titus connecting you to Majiffy?
@Majiffy: I want you to channel some actual paranoia for once, I know you have some. Could Mollie be WKing you?
@Saki: If I threaten to blackmail you, will you get down to "sorting" Titus ASAP?
@Charizard: You think doduo/zzzx are scum together? Can we lynch ZZZX Today? I will offer you candy in return.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

@Titus: huh, ok. I thought your stance for a long time was that there was definitely scum in Majiffy/Mastin and you weren't sure which. You mentioned HouseParty as a reason to believe they weren't T/T.
I haven't picked a team of 4 from your list because I think thats a little bit silly to do at this point. I'd rather focusing on lynching one scum at a time right now...Even if I haven't been doing my best towards that end, I'd really like to try and pull it together. I really want people to start consolidating on wagons. I miss the good old days where people would let their egos in check at all ever and just wagon the crap out of someone for compromises and lolz.
--
Of the current wagons, I don't support Doduo or me. I ~sort of~ support Cat/Titus wagons right now. I know I was zealous about Cat earlier but that was mostly off gut-connection-cases and Snork sort of questioned me about it in the QT and I didnt really have anything good to back it up. Annnd thats all the wagons.

Of your list, I think I would lynch Saki and I think Snork disagrees with that.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

^ This guy gets it.
I'm paranoid enough of mollie that I'd lol-lynch her at this point, but I have not the confidence nor the emotional energy to ram that one through. Beating my head against "omfg ap, how are you misreading me, are you scum?" is just not on my docket today.
Charizard I'm ehhhh about. I dislike his vote and think hes the most probscum on Doduo, but there is a tangible difference between his posts here and that NY scumgame I skimmed his ISO in.
Speedy Saki - Snork thinks they are town, I dont. Mch like ZZZX, they are a tragic lynch that I will not be getting Today despite being ok with it.
Majiffy.....???....???....??? Well, who can I give a Gunsmith shot to tonight to investigate him so I dont have to think about him . Hell if I know
Cat - Let me ISO them and see how I feel.
PV - rather not.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Oops that was @actfan's entry post, not PV

[Guilty Gunsmith]

ac1983fan is already hilariously town \o/

[Guilty Gunsmith]

No, fuck that. Fuck everything about that. Deadlines are not there so we can use literally all of it. Get your head in the game or get dunked.

For once, can we not sponge all of the deadline because everyone is circlejerking?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Just stop.

You're allowed to give me advice when you actually stop being a stubborn fuck this game. I hate this bullshit. Can we just put Cat at L - 2?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Im here Im just too lazy to switch accounts.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

^ My gosh, you won't vote him though. Like I really don't wanna lynch Doduo right now.

*cough* I think Mollie is scum if Majiffy is *cough*

Eh. I get what you are trying to sell here, I really do. But the motivation you are trying to sell fells a little bit blatant? TBH I've been worried about you/Mollie being a team and Mastin/Majiffy being both town because of this connection you keep pushing.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

This is not in reference to you in anyway, but if you must know, Majiffy, Mollie, and AngryPidgeon are worrying me.

Thank god, a clear addition to the town pile. You can join PN and Vezok. Try not to lynch me though, Im actually town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I found an article that you wrote regarding VCA - you clearly said that scum typically divide and it is incredibly rare for scum members to all vote together. This seems to contradict your 'best guess' in this game. What gives?

The hell. How/when did you find that? Why?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I'd want Jiffy lynched before Mollie as I see her as town unless scum with him atm.

Believe me, I know. Im worried about you because you keep repackaging the same opinions on loop. Which Snork seems to think means you are town and I realize you != me, so I dunno.

--

I still wish we could lynch ZZZX, but I'll shut up about it. Lying cat's recent outbursts feel somewhat town to me and Im slightly concerned they could be a town PR. I don't see myself supporting the Doduo wagon though and Im annoyed at LC for wasting everyone's time and getting uppity about it that I could just lynch them and not be too upset about it. Uhhhh. yep. Thought I had something else to add. I'd like them to claim at least but I sort of expect them to claim PR either way.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

^ Please lynch this. Its just scum. I cant even argue why it is, it just is. The thing is, ZZZX -looks- town motivated but thats it. There is no stuffing in his oreos. There is no cream filling in his twinikies. There is no finger holes in his bowling ball.

Ok back to shutting up. Titus: Its just things like.. if LC flips scum then Majiffy is probscum that you keep shoving that bothers me. I don't see Majiffy's actions being extremely related to whatever is happening to LC and it looks like you are setting up to start shoving him if LC flips scum. Sort of my thing with mollie, it looks like you are setting up to not ever push her if Majiffy flips town. But meh.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Huh actually that sort of makes a Titus/Majiffy team more likely than Titus/Whoever. If Titus flips scum anyhow, I will be wanting Majiffy right after. But cross that bridge.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Yes because A scumreading B and then B scumreading A means A is OMGUSing B. ayup.

Snork

i dont think the slip is harmless like you were easily persuaded about, but oh well. i dont see why they would say that unless they had info we dont have

nobody "persuaded" her about anything. in fact, we've been saying (well, at least I have been) that it's easy to understand why she doesn't like it.

and as far as "info we don't know", don't be such a dunce. it's in the fucking OP.

Snork

Do you even read the game?? AP already talked about that. We still think he's scum but no we are not voting there. The resistance to the whole thing should make you think though. Something is up there.

I'm sorry I'm terrible.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

You have also said we should lynch Majiffy if LC flips scum.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

And marquis goes from fucking quack to mastin 2.0 wtf

...and snork goes from being a good little boy to POSTING OUTSIDE HIS HYDRA, WTF!!!

Omg alright!! I'm on a dying phone!

Yes because A scumreading B and then B scumreading A means A is OMGUSing B. ayup.

Snork

If it had no other base of info? YES

Uh.... wut? No. Here. Let me help you. OMGUS

Refresh your databanks there. I posted exactly why I think you're scum and then all of a sudden you turn around and call us scum for doing so. Like.. the fucking definition of OMGUS. For real. Click that link again and fucking read it.

And marquis goes from fucking quack to mastin 2.0 wtf

Quoting!

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

and contrast those with 1323, where he forgets that he's not supposed to know i'm town

I'm confused. He doesn't mention you in there... did you mean a different one?

I'm sorry. I'm really really sorry. I'm unbookmarking this from my main.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Oh wow. My bad.

Alright. I think AP and I would go for a beast lynch but at this point, I can't even believe it's still D1.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't think that is a slip. Let me try and actually get an opinion on the wall though.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I thought it was, but it seems like I'm the only one townreading you and I don't understand why.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

AP here. I just spent all my efforts in my other 2 games (fortunately one just ended in a scum win for me so I'll have more time here ^^).

Uh. Would prob lynch Titus. My reads are all absolute shit right now. I'll put a genuine effort into fixing that sometime in the near future.

Im assuming the ZZZX wagon isn't going anywhere. Lying Cat makes me not want to lynch them with all their yummy AtE. Titus has been under my sketchy list all game, even if I ws saying shes town.

Would prob lynch that and feel better about it than a number of things.

YOLO.

Mastin are we both town this game? If so can we actually schedule some time for giving a fuck together? That'd be tops.

-AP!

[Guilty Gunsmith]

This one took a little while to develop, but by the middle of the day, both heads of GG were in prime scumhunting form. AP has been hitting all the right notes for me like he does when he's town, and Snork's posts have a level of genuineness that is hard to fake

Really? I feel really disconnected from this game. I'm just having a hard tiem getting into it. I guess I do feel good about ZZZX but I feel like I've been waffly all game. I'll give you that Snork's rageposts have been pretty unabashedly town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Actually I kinda think Bulbazak is scum

[Guilty Gunsmith]

can you plz engage me in a way that gets me back in the game.

Tell me why I think Bulba's last wall is scummy.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

NOT going to call AP a moron for failing to analyze the wagon on me, nor am I going to yell at the VI's currently voting me.

Fine fine you can be a townread, jesus. A strong one.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Why do I constantly think everyone is bussing each other.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

VOTE: Titus

This is a compromise vote. We currently prefer this to LC.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

^ That is a pointless question. The worst kind of meta.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

So, Street Racers had a very similar situation.

Displaced was wagoned early, and the wagon was abandoned. Towards the end of D1, there was a large wagon on another player, and a flash wagon started up, back on Displaced.

Displaced was town, and was a counterwagon to scum.

Not to mention that wicked is still one of my strongest town reads. We're discussing Bulbazak. We're not "painting" him as anything; don't be a bad conftown.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Ap's post-apocalyptic reads thus far

Town: PN, Vezok, ac1983fan, Lying Cat.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I barely have a pulse on this game and I don't actually think it is.

I can see where he is coming from.

but you are asking me why you think it is scummy? cos you are a paranoid freak and are not letting bulba find his stride.

give it room. and give yourself room for that matter.

This post bothers me in and I don't have a good reason for that. This really could be town mollie, but I dislike how close-ended this is. I was hoping Mollie would just talk to me with no agenda in mind, my request was supposed to be somewhat humorous (suggesting Mollie explain my feelings to me) and it just seems like that got lost. Its not even like I was bombarding Bulbazak in full tunnel mode or anything. I literally posted one sentence saying he could be scum and mollie is telling me I need to not talk about the bulba post. .. ??. The only reason I asked this in the first place was to provide a silly means for mollie to get engaged in the game (and with me) and just talk about something casually. Ya. So dislike. Not sure this is scum mollie though, just dislike it. Snork might also be getting in my head, he is posting about Mollie/majiffy probs not being T/T in the QT.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

AP, how do you have a townread on AC. He hasn't done anything alignment indicative afaict.

I actually feel like I read people I don't know better than people I play with a lot, so I might be being hasty there.

I just like his attitude. Feels uncensored and unafraid to post things that are going to get attention.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

MAJIFFY. I'm hitting my 2nd wind. Are you around?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Attention Townies

This is not something I would do if there was much doubt in my mind. This is not something I do lightly ever. This is something I will feel terrible about if wrong. HOWEVER. Mastin is scum. I just spent a couple hours rereading and I am certain of it. Mastin is scum. MTD is scum. Mollie is probably scum. Wicked is likely scum.

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Mastin

Im not extremely interested in either of the leading wagons. I could lynch WickedDest if we aren't lynching mastin, but I really want to lynch mastin.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Could you give some reasoning pls?

Mastin feels a LOT like mastin from NY 172. The posting style is extremely similar and the apathy mastin is showing in this game is far more likely to be from scum-mastin than town mastin.

Nothing she has posted is transparently town. Her posts (particularly early ones) are all quote-strips that show no serious progression and the style itself is a really easy excuse to blend-in.

Kinda feel like yolo-voting Lying Cat and townreading AP. But meh.

This is not something msatin would do. This is not how mastin approaches reading me as town. Mastin looks for very concrete things with me and mastin has to be SURE I'm town because she considers me dangerous. This attitude is not in-line with how mastin plays as town.

The read on Majiffy looks really really awful. Its an easy read to push since Majiffy is just pushing a PL. Mastin is far too certain of this one read and she fails to remotely consider my points when I bring them up in defense of Majiffy.

Mastin's entry is a little worrisome. It doesn't scream town to me. In fact her stance on me is pretty meh. I'd wagon mastin right now but not feel amazing about it. Just kidding, I probably would.

VOTE: Guilty Gunsmith

While this is something mastin could do as town, it would not be like this. On the surface? Looks fine. Actual execution? not so much. Mastin is trying to appear town but the fervor, the emotion isnt there. Shes going through the motions. She had to make this omgus vote because its what she would do as town. This is not how she would do it as town.

And that's notscience being in the hydra but not posting, because notscience makes his alignment obvious with posting, well, posting. And a faked PR can be a convenient way of avoiding that.

This is horseshit. Not the logic, just that mastin is actually posting this like its a valid point for her to actually think in this situation.

My top scumreads right now are mastin2, WickedDestJr, ZZZX, MTD in roughly that order of increasing lynchburnfire-ness.

Your vote says otherwise.

This is terrible. Mastin is trying to pin me on some terribad inconsistency? Or discredit? Who cares where my vote is. Mastin would be concerned about me saying this if she were town, not write it off with a throwaway one-liner.

Whoah. I'm actually a counterwagon! MTD had five votes (forget who the fifth was--I can only think of Wicked being the vote changer, though), and with my unvote, now has only three.

All of mastin's wagon analysis has been confirmation bias laden and generally crap.

P-edit: Ya thanks for that Bulbazak. Were you helping me lynch her in L4D?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

AP, I have other reasons for my Mastin townread. Trust me. She's town.

Well you sure as hell aren't masons with her.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

If you have role related info that suggests mastin town plesae claim it in your next post. Otherwise if people could stop derailing my scum lynches on mastin across multiple games, that'd be fucking dandy.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Get your stick out of your butt, stop trusting Majiffy-scum for no reason, unvote Mastin-town, and get your vote on Wicked-scum. Please and thank you.

Majiffy is town as fuck this game.

Everyone sucks ass at reading mastin and this game is going to be more proof of that.

I want my fucking mastin scum lynch this time.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

PM/Vezok - Werewolf masons. With Guilty Gunsmith.
Titus is town. All that Backup inventor softclaiming is town.
Lying Cat seems town, screw it. I like their AtE this game, reminds me of EtL-town (is she in that hydra secretly?)
Charizard is being too swingy with his vote to be likely scum. Plus he just generally feels arrogant enough to be scum.
Marquis is town as hell and anyone that thinks otherwise is not getting any of my god damn vigilante inventions. I can't even explain this read, he just is town. Just obviously.
Saki Im guessing is actually posting too much to be scum. Originally wanted to call this scum for some things , but meh. Not going to lynch them today, YOLO.

Bulbazak is probably just misreading mastin again. Fuck it. Hes not scum with mollie or mastin at least.
ac1983fan is doing his own thing which is fantastic, keep up the good work. I'll downgrade him to the "meh" segment of my reads though.
Majiffy. Lol ya this slot is scummy, ok guys. HAve you read a single goddamn majiffy post? That sort of stubborness requires a certain amount of being special and town. Meh pile. Im totally giving him my vig shot tonight cause I <3 his spirit though.
---
PV is a yolo townread. Would lynch I guess, just dont feel like hes scum.
ZZZX. ZZZX.
---
Mastin/MTD/WickedDest/Mollie.

Woooo.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Plus he just generally feels arrogant enough to be scum.

Errr. Too arrogant to be scum. Is what I meant to convey. Inb4 titus calls me out on this scumslip.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Lying Cat - 4 (

mastin2

,

MTD

,

Titus

,

vezokpiraka

)
Majiffy - 1 (ZZZX)

Marquis

- 3 (PeregrineV,

Speedy Saki

,

beastcharizard

)

mastin2

- 2 (

Guilty Gunsmith

,

Lying Cat

)

Titus

- 4 (

Majiffy

,

ac1983fan

,

Wickedestjr

,

Perpetual Nonsense

)
Wickedestjr - 2 (

Bulbazak, Marquis

)

LOOK AT THESE PRETTY COLORS. CHRISTMAS HAS COME EARLY. ANYONE ON THE MASTIN SCUM LYNCH GETS ENTERED IN A RAFFLE TO WIN A VIG SHOT.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Not Voting: pirate mollie

What the fuck is this shit mollie. i just want you to know that I'm lynching the everloving shit out of you after your scum buddy that you've been lumping into a "TvT" flips mafia.

PREPARE YOURSELF.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Should note that I'm faking hydra dissonance about AP. Pie has some opinions that I want to share to look town, but I wont let him actually post cause people are scumreading him properly.

AP is the biggest centerpiece of our fake hydra dissonance so I will arbitrarily compare him to Wisdom and keep calling him probtown.

Keep calm and lynch mastin.

I only actually have 3 scumreads and I hope to have even less before the end of the Day. Im waffling on Thor in order to make him look sketchy when I end up getting lynched and flipping mafia.

:thumbs up:

Vote Sekai already!

5 more masin votes for a scum lynch.

Yes, I agree. Scum is trying to lynch Mastin.

BULBAZAK.

GET ON THIS SCUM LYNCH RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

BEFORE MASTIN ACTUALLY PUTS IN EFFORT THIS GAME AND DUPES ALL THE DUMBS INTO THINKING SHES TOWN.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

TITUS. I SEE YOU ONLINE. GET IN HERE AND HELP ME COUNTERWAGON YOU.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

My townreads are abandoning the wagon on Lying Cat to vote for me? What the fuck...

@GG, I'm not the backup inventor... probs gunna get me lynched now but oh well

We're lynching mastin, who is scum.

Please help me lynch scum mastin. I haven't felt this good about ram rodding a lynch through since forever.

P-edit: I KNOW ITS NOT A SCUM SLIP, I'M TOWN >.<

[Guilty Gunsmith]

People I would lynch today: Mastin, Mollie, Titus (eh screw it), MTD, WickedDest, ZZZX, PV

[Guilty Gunsmith]

If somebody is masons/neighbors with mastin claim it in your very next post or there is no takebacks.

Mastin is far more dangerous than WickedDest is. Case in point, look at all the people townreading her right now for ???? reasons.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I expect mastin to be quicklynched by the time I get home from the gym.

I swear to god.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

People I would lynch today: Mastin, Mollie, Titus (eh screw it), MTD, WickedDest, ZZZX, PV

GG, you are so fucking close.

Majiffy, Mollie (bc if she's scum she's scum with Jiffy), MTD, Wicked, beast, ZZZX, Lying, and PV

Why can't mollie just be scum? Her and mastin interactions early game are awkward as hell.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Oh huh what is mollie doing this game. Oh right lurking and avoiding challenging anyone.

Everyone is free to sheep me whenever

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Titus is ttown holy crap.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Plan: vetoed.

Majiffy is still town though.

Titus probs too.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Mollie/Mastin 2014

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Awesome can we lynch mastin now.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Mastin

Orbital Hybridisation

Vote Count 1.21

Lying Cat - 2 (mastin2, vezokpiraka)
Majiffy - 1 (ZZZX)
Marquis - 3 (PeregrineV, beastcharizard, Speedy Saki)
mastin2 - 3 (Guilty Gunsmith, Lying Cat, MTD)
Speedy Saki - 2 (Titus, Marquis)
Titus - 3 (Majiffy, ac1983fan, Wickedestjr)
Wickedestjr - 1 (Bulbazak)

Not Voting: Perpetual Nonsense, pirate mollie

9 to lynch. Deadline: (expired on 2014-06-16 21:06:01).

So the biggest wagon is at 3 (MB, but seriously Cat is town). Mastin would you compromise on Titus or Wicked Today? At this point I just want to lynch someone who isnt a townread. And titus has been hovering in and out of my radar, so fuck it. I'd still compromise there over most people.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Let's NOT try to break the game via flavor spec and pretend we did.

Im going to start blatantly sheeping the largest wagon Street Racers style starting in....now.

VOTE: Titus

Because we really need to lynch someone even if that person is town.

Mastin is still scum. Mollie/MTD/Wicked are probscum. ZZZX/Titus could be maybe if I squint a bit. MAYBE Bulbazak if Im wrong about one of my core reads.

Thats about the long and short.

Good luck to you all, mastin will be NKing me tonight for sure.

-AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

VOTE: mastin

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Frick now that everyone's sheeping me, Im getting cold feet. I don't wanna be accountable.

But things are happening woooo.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I have the creeping suspicion that one or more scum are WKing town-mastin, but I ugh. UGH. Im on too much of a roll. Titus/Sake team makes sense of the last couple posts bu I just have such a hard time seeing either as scum.

P-edit: Oh hi.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I heard. That anti-hero. Likes it when people put hyphens in his name.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I'm here. I'm willing to vote whatever at this point cause I don't want all this responsibility and don't want to no-lynch above all else.

I want mastin to full claim next post.

I want Majiffy to tell me what the fuck happened to his mastin read.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Snork is dead.

Mastin, can you consolidate things very quickly please? You're being lynched, there's nothing to do about it now but if you are town, please give me something.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

-sigh- I ranted to Snork in the QT over night about how much I hated everything and everyone.

My bad I guess. Im just pissed off that no one is willing to actually do anything or just act as a unit for the sake of doing shit and seeing how people respond. I sort of expected the townflip after s bit but was sort of too late too do anything.

Oh and Im pissed off at mastin because her thing recently seems to be putting in less than zero effort in games were on the same team and putting in tons of effort when we aren't.

Soooooo Im going to get a running start at shit today hopefully rather than try and put all my giveafucks in at the last minute.

We got a track invention last night. No interesting results from it, clarifying something with AH to be 100% sure.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't know who else is scum. (LC's definitely not.)

But Wicked and MTD are.

If one of those two are lynch candidates, I'll join whichever wagon's larger between them.

If neither of those two ARE lynch candidates, well. We should make them one.

VOTE: MTD

This one is for you.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Ok I got confirmation from Antihero.

Our Track shot DEFINITELY failed last night. I.E. blocked, jailkept, target was rolestopped, etc. Something like that.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

IDK, I've been shoving MTD/Wicked/Mollie/ and {kind of } Bulba. One of those clowns probably is scum to be sure.
pre-edit: Why is Bulbazak assuredly scum if we are town (we are)?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Bulba's probably town and so is GG. Bulba was pushing the major counterwagon (Wicked) to town!Mastina. So don't give me shit about bulba not having an original thought.

Ok, I'll give you that that AC post also made me . Seriously though I don't know if I'd say "bulba had no original thoughts" but he felt kind of like a robot?
I sort of spammed a case in the QT about him last Night. I quoted him being blatantly wrong about mastin in l4d mafia and his response was to sort of cast me off with "Ya ok I'll talk to mastin" which seemed a bit...lacking? (Im lacking a better word) of a response I'd expect from that. I sort of want to play the "Which person WKing mastin is the dcumfuck" game Today but I might just be salty about mastin being town.
Also we tracked bulbazak, guess I can just say that.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I mean...he went 11 days without posting anything for content..ok, not exactly scummy, but really?
He called mastin "obivous town" before the mastin wagon was even a concept, so him leading a wagon on not-mastin is...expected? Regardless of his alignment.
I also disliked this post for similar reasons. Response feels...lacking? I call him scum and he retorts by saying "You are town, deal with it". Meh? Just reads out of place / dismissive. Hes just reiterating an opinion which makes him look consistent but doen't hit me in the feels.

Gonna be honest though, I don't think Bulba is getting lynched today. I need to refine my opinions (still sort of fluctuating) but tentatively would lynch from:
Wicked, MTD, Titus, Bulba, Mollie, Saki?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

This is the part I had a problem with. Totally unnecessary. We needed to lynch and by the time you hammered mastin was the only option. You adding this comment made it look like you were trying so hard to distance yourself from what you knew was a town lynch.

Ya also

AC, my hammer post set up alarm posts. Really? We asked Mastina to claim 5 fucking times at least. I had a specific time set up for when I would hammer, because I had issues to resolve offline. So I hammered. I didn't even WANT Mastina to be the lynch. Still, she was.

Is like scum mad about being caught for the wrong reason.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Spoiler:

WELP
That was slip.

We've been discussing who we think is scum and I think we are both in lockstep (god that word) for the most part. We think.

Scum: Titus, Saki, Bulbazak <- preferred lynches today.

Meh-scum: MTD, ZZZX, Mollie

So our vote isn't in the best of places. UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Titus

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Wait nvm just checked my pms.

I have information that implies titus is unlikely mafia.

UNVOTE:
Elaborate?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Or actually I don't really care as long as you are confident. Im assuming this is from an invention.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Wait nvm just checked my pms.

I have information that implies titus is unlikely mafia.

VOTE: ac130

UNVOTE:

Snork

p-edit: Titus is ETL?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Yeah I mean it doesnt matter if we out it or not but might be better served not outted.

ok, ok. UNVOTE:
I kind of think Saki and ZZZx might be scum together, discuss?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I think we need to unvote a 4th time for good measure, AP.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I think we need to unvote a 4th time for good measure, AP.

Snork

Definitely do this just in case anti missed it.

UNVOTE:

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I kind of think Saki and ZZZx might be scum together, discuss?

Are you talking about ZZZX's d2 entrance post?

Little bit of this, little bit of that.

Mostly this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5908554

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I really wanted Titus to be scum.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

GG why are you still voting Titus?

You are a humorous person. You make humorous posts.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

What do you think of Majiffy claiming you are town?
VOTE: ac1983fan
This is a blatant sheep vote.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Why do people want me to be scum

bcuz i wanted to be right. and i knew what to do next if you were. but you're not, so that sucks.

Snork

i approve that.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Vezok: there is an investigation claim on titus saying she's town. Unless majiffy is lying about it?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

i too discredit my attackers by calling it a gambit

So like. You say this. But Majiffy is claiming he has investigative results that make it 95% likely Titus is town.

Do you think he is lying? If so, why are you not voting him?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I am 100% certain Titus is scum.
That's better chances than 95%

:/ :\ :/ :\

100% in the same way I knew mastin was scum? Or is there role-related reasons for this? I mean Majiffy sounds like hes claiming a cop investigate (would sort of like to confirm that actually).

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Saki is looking townish as of late.

Really? I've found them mostly just unbearable and annoying. I would probably lynch them tbh.

so walk me through your scumread on mastina again?

It sucked and I hate myself, but Im mostly just blaming the game state and everyone else for it at this point because Im a hypocrite. Im upset at mastin for reasons I mentioned previously and that probably had a lot to do with it.

I'm thinking most of that is related to her current IRL situation and not alignment-based.

Then how exactly is mollie playing to her town game right now from your persepctive?

do you really think that ap had a scumread on mastina? cos I don't see how he possibly could.

I am waiting to hear from him and if I don't I am ramming this lynch through

This is some pretty egregious bullshit, mollie. Some. Egregious. Bullshit.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I hate this game. I really do.

Mollie is lurking her ass off and not caring when I respond to her request to get her invested. Also her case on me is the laziest bullshit ever. I already fucked up thanks for rubbing it in.
Saki is posting a lot of poorly formatted words that just don't feel like they are trying to accomplish anything and I find it all really circlejerky.
Vezok fucking jaikept me over his mason buddy last night and if it ever comes out that bulba made the N1 kill, Im going to be PISSED.
Lying Cat and PV have done nothing extremely memorable.
--
Majiffy just makes me paranoid. And I hate all the anti-town shit he did on D1. In fact, just today I've started wondering if hes actually just scum.
titus is cleared? I have no idea. Her unabashedness is upsetting me, particularly the parts where she calls me scum for really bad reasons.
ac1983fan? I don't know.
Bulbazak - smug bastard. Possibly WKing me and mastin. Thought of this makes me upset.

I just wish someone would do anything other than continue to circlejerk, myself included. Well my attempts to do that ended in mastin getting mislynched so go me. I'll actually try and rally myself again.

Mollie your vote is really lazy and awful. Be ashamed.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Calling me antitown is the biggest fucking cop out what did I do anti town? Quotes motherfucker.

Claiming preemptively, self voting, refusing to compromise on wagons, refusing to explain your 180 on mastin, flooding the thread with mostly just rage.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

The other thing that upsets me is how little interest people have in posting here. Like the entire playerlist will just ignore this game in lieu of others. ZZZX, LOOKING AT YOU. YOU SCUM?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't care. You've been posting elsewhere and avoiding posting here. When you DO, your posts are complaining about being called out for not posting. Step it up or Im lynching you, the end.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

All I want. Is for people to put in one ounce of care into this game. I just want to have some reasonable conversations happening. And I am 100% right about ZZZX's recent activity because I saw him on and was hoping hed say something I could talk to him about , but he didn't.

Thanks. I am really in shock

Lol ok. Play some sort of victim card when I call you out on not doing something here last night.

Majiffy

: What are your reads. All of them.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't feel ashamed. if you reached out to me I must have missed it. all I have seen from you is snork's tunneling (wrongly) and you lynching mastina despite my fucking solid townread on him. you make noises about lynching me for lulz and somehow this is supposed to get me into the game???

I have admitted to apathy. I was attempting to break that by pushing mastin, but too little too late. What I am talking about is when I tried to open up an open ended convo about Bulbazak and you basically said "Lol no bulba is town why don't you see it" and that was the end of that. Which, sure, I'll give you is an opinion one can reasonably be expected to have, but it still was annoying and stifling from my perspective.

I don't care if you were jked last night it does not mean that you are town just cos a nk went through it just means you didn't perform the nk.

I never once. Not even once. Not even ONCE. Said it made me town. You are mistaking me for Vezok (dumb) and Bulbazak (scum).

I have already given up on this game there is no fucking cohesion whatsoever and I don't even know where to start in order to make that happen. the only reason I am not replacing out is cos I don't want to put anti through the trouble of finding a replacement.

Hey thats me too kind of. Except I just dont replace out of games ever.
--

Mollie, how would you feel about lynching any of the following people: ZZZX, Saki, Bulbazak, ACFAN, MTD, Cat. Also how sure are you on Majiffy being town? I want to trust what he is claiming but I have reservations.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I can not prove you wrong yet.

Oh my god. I don't care. You have spent more posts today trying to prove to me that you are active in this game than you have actually generating content.

You thought we were town because .... ???
You went back to voting titus because .... ???
Thats it. I dont really see anything else you've done. Im not saying its ONLY you. Im also annoyed at PV, Cat, MTD, prolly others I cant think of. I called YOU out because when I made that post you were doing things on the site. Thats it. Now get that stick right out from your butt and actually do something productive rather than continue this pointless discourse.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

questions you want me to asnwer?

Favourite mafia role and/or alignment?

I don't have questions. I just want to see people doing proactive things that I can judge whether or not look like something they would be interested in as town.
Your posts today have been nebulous at best.

but you said he claimed something where did he do this?

See this is what I hate about this game. I just wish people could maintain a slight bit of keeping on top of things. Sorting out apathy is IMPOSSIBLE. Seriously. But its here. Which we've been talking about for most of the Day. This claim happened right when Titus was getting wagoned which makes me nervous.

RE Sthar8: They've been awol since I don't remember. They showed up to shower praise at me for calling them town when they were at 6/7ish votes. My townread on them is almost purely on some AtE Sthar dropped.
RE Saki: Can we lynch them anyways? Do you trust Marquis's ability to read them?
RE ACfan: He replaced...Zab?BPC? I think it was BPC. He hasn't posted very much, his ISO is short. Read it and let us know?
RE MTD: Who ISNT apathetic this game? Jesus. If Apathy is a towntell we can just lynch Saki, MAajiffy, Titus and be done with it.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I love how GG doesnt have a case on me and is purely just leading a wagon in hopes that anyone who cant see how I am town follows you

Except you have been talking about my 'case' on you which was that you are intentionally lurking here and being active elsewhere, lol. I wouldn't call that a case, but you have been whining about it like it is one, so for the sake of the post Im quoting...ya ok. Furthermore, if I were trying to get you lynched, you'd know about it. I'd be voting you. I'd be telling people you are scum. Not pestering you about your lack of content. I'm glad you have added content in the form of starting a pointless and hypocritical inquiry into confirmed-town's lack of posting.

Mollie, I'm not really buying this all right now, gonna be honest. I get that you are apathetic. Can we do something to fix that then? Basically I have been thinking for a while that one of you/Bulbazak is scum and thats been a fairly solid stance for a while now (at least in my head). Telling me that I'm scummy for mislynching mastin is really REALLY wrong and then taking it back without any new direction just looks ... weird? TL;DR: If you are town, come on. And the lack of paranoia about Majiffy also makes me . Not that Majiffy is LOLSCUM, but ... really? I don't see how anyone can't be squinting at him a little, ESPECIALLY given that you are so out of touch with the game state that you didn't know he had claimed an inno on Titus in response to her being wagoned.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Like. ZZZX's entire attitude right now is "You can't PROVE I'm not town!!" which makes him a complete and utter scumbutt.* Absolutely no attempt to figure out why I feel the way I do (despite me telling him there was a specific reason I called him out and that it was a generic sentiment in the first place). Jumping to conclusions about my intentions and only posting to talk about how town he is despite being on V/LA and admitting to not posting anything here. Come. on. I know I consider it a towntell when people are proud of their play, but this ... This isn't that. This is just blind hyperdefensive shamelessness.

VOTE: ZZZX

I still need to figure out where I stand on most of you chronic apathetic clown-lurks, but I want to create some noise her right now.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

bulba is town cos he shld be concerned about me

This is a really weak reason to townread him :/. Since when does "someone having one opinion I would expect them to have" translate to "probably town".

if majiffy is fakeclaiming I would be surprised. he is too arrogant for that sort of shit.

Ok, fair enough. Rethinking this, it seems unlikely Majiffy would claim an invention he didn't actually get (I think he said it was an invention, maybe he didn't). Its still possible hes scum with Titus and trying to defend her, but I will put it out of my mind for everyone's sake right now. Can you let me know who you want removed Today? I realize that will take time, but like a top 3 or something would be great.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I sort of need to be busy because work has been hell on me recently. But if you have something to talk to me about, bring it up?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Jesus mollie, do you want to hear about my work life? I'm stressed as FUCK about it because Im basically being audited by my boss extensively and told I need to do things better, one of which I fucked up today.

If you want to talk to me then talk.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Excuse me? Fucking what?

I have been busting my ass and over posting.

I get an empty post from mollie asking where I am when I've been the main voice stirring the pot all day. I'm allowed to actually take an hour off to try and do work right? WRONG. I'm shutting mollie out now and she feels the need to comment on it like it's alignment related? No fuck that. I can take one hour away from Ms without being called out on it tyvm. I would lynch mollie atm. I don't think she's town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I'm skimming around the thread. P43 actually makes me think ZZzx is town? His back and forth with me read fairly off the cuff and open.

I'm going to iso saki and acfan and mollie today. I kind of liked acfan posts recently not sure. Seriously wondering if mollie/majiffy is a team. Bulba how right were your reads :/

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Hi there! It's SNORK! I've been away a while. And I'm a terrible hydra buddy. I got way behind, many pages ago. AP has been carrying the slot despite his time limitations. I feel bad for that.

I am actually, really really reading the thread from the beginning now. I have many notes that I am working on summarizing into soundbytes. I'm taking a fresh look at the game so hopefully I'll see some things I may have missed.

However, and I don't know how relevant this may be, I wanted to point out something, and maybe get some feedback, like from Jiffy/Titus/mollie/PV.

In the early pages, Wicked went after LC, while Majiffy was trying to policy lynch Doduo/Marquis. ZZZX was defending them and Titus was being "helpful", just as a refresher.

I would like you folks to just take a second and review that particular interaction, the attack/defense between Wicked and LC, if you wouldn't mind. I need some other perspectives as I think I probably have some confbias going on with both slots, but there's definitely something interesting there.

Particularly, I'd like to know if you think it's TvT or TvS (or SvS I guess, but I think unlikely), and if TvS, who, and why.

I'll be back later, once I've gotten at least a good chunk of the game read/notated.

- Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Hmmm. What exactly do you backup invent?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Universal Inventor Backup....huh. I kept thinking the Backup couldn't be scum for setup reasons, but being Universal sort of negates that opinion. Meh. Uhh.

Dear Majiffy, lets pretend we tried to break the game with flavor and then not actually do it. Love, Big Bird.

Known inventions: Track, Jailkeep, Doctor, Universal backup (now Doctor) and one more out there which seems to likely be whatever Majiffy is claiming seeing as how no one else has claimed getting one. Do I think all inventors are town? No. No I do not. Jailkeep inventor makes the most sense as a scum role on paper although it was given to Vezok who would have been expected to protect PN. Could be a towncred ploy, but on the surface it does look town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't have a strong town read on you (being waffly I know). I'm going to discourage bad practices when I see them, and I think its far too early to dive into flavor spec here. Im not saying the other points are not valid. Also for kicks cause its on my mind, check out the sole survivor: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=34962

[Guilty Gunsmith]

But you're going to dive into setup spec with two flipped power roles, and a pretty clearly power-heavy closed setup?

I was just getting my initial thoughts on the matter out publicly, if I was convinced the backup was a scum claim, I'd be voting it. So ok. We DO know a reasonable amount about the setup so far given the masons and invention claims.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: MTD
Lets face it, MTD is sketchy enough that we're lynching him before endgame. Lets just QL him today for fun.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Pedit: That's a nice reason for lynching me lol.

How about that I owe mastin a favor and between you/Wicked, I think you are the scummier of the 2?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Yep.

Wait, no it was that other thing. Lynching mastin's scum reads and getting really giddy at all the scumplaining over being lynched for the wrong reasons.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Do you wanna lynch Bulba? He has failed to give me any warm fuzzies.

Let me try and effort in this game tonight. I keep promising that, I know. Bulbazak...Snork doesn't think he's scum. I actually kind of like his reads list atm so I'm going to get him to bus all of ya'll before I lynch him ; ). He could be scum. I keep thinking one of him/mollie is. Snork thinks its just mollie.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Here's the game you're referencing. If anybody would go and do a dual ISO of me and your hydra, they'd find that we ended up walling on each other for close to 2 game days.

I'm gonna go right ahead and give that a pass. Snork thinks Saki is town; I'm begrudgingly becoming neutral about them. Bulbazak at least looks fervent and passionate which is cool.

This seems rather fake.

Sort of agree. I could see a townie saying it though.

Well, then the words "wall war" came from your mouth, not mine. You are misrepping me. Clear cut example.

This wall war is so pedantic I'm going to scratch my eyes out reading it.

That

would

did result in a wall war.

ftfy.

I think i nearly understand what majiffy result was. Majiffy do you mind if I tried and guessed what your inspect was?

How about, instead of pointless speculation, you read Saki v Bulbazak and explain why their alignments are whatever you think they are. OR just anything useful.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Sorry about that speculation as I was answering someone else's question. The SakivBulba felt a little weird. Like two kids trying to prove who is right. That leads me to feel its townvtown if not for how smooth it just went. I dont know but it feels as if its SvS. I am not fully sure yet.

Ok, I think I realized something. ANYHOW. I'm kind of sort of starting to townread you. Snork seems really sure you are town for some reason, he has been rereading. This opinion kind of mirrors how I feel a little bit. Paranoia about it being orchestrated (I mean wow look how nitpicky that crap is) and referencing a game where they were TvT (I haven't even clicked the link I can just tell that they were). If I had to pick one to not like here, it'd be bulbazak.

That said, I still want to lynch MTD. Snork finds his votes all opportunistic this game and I tend to agree. I also generally dislike him on a gut level which I would need to justify more but eh. Snork also sees MAjiffy/MTD as a possibility because they have been defending each other all game, I haven't looked for that but there was definitely recent bouts of Majiffy doing that. I also found MTD's whole bit about bulba's case on Saki being weak to be a little .

[Guilty Gunsmith]

YOU ARE.

Everyone needs to vote MTD right now. Bulbazak is a shiny little bauble meant to distract you.

Jiffy has been covering MTD's ass and chainsawing since page 4 or 5 or whatever. Dumb early.

Jiffy isn't a mason. And if he's town, why so much interest in saving MTD's skin when he isn't even Jiffy's strongest townread? Someone explain that shit to me.

When MTD was getting wagoned early, what did he do? He started yelling about Doduo and Mastin.

MTD is getting wagoned now. And what does he do? He pushes for Bulbazak.

All this, DESPITE MTD BEING SCUMMY AS FUCK, opportunistically hopping on leading/popular wagons, making up reasons for making up reasons for his votes, dodging legitimate questioning, and HELLO. Does not make sense. MTD scum = Jiffy scum.

Oh yeah and Jiffy "wouldn't misread mastin over bullshit". Or Titus? And there was a third but I don't have my notes right now and I am kind of juiced up at the moment because yall are falling for scum shit.

So, can you all, please trust me that I have spent the last 10 fucking days squeezing this thread for info and this is what needs to happen.

Snork.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Also... fuzzy?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Are you Jingle or Sthar?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

We are undecided on mollie, and will sort her later. It does look like Jiffy has been protecting her, but I think maybe it's because she might expect him to? Especially if she's town, she might expect him to recognize it. I don't know.

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Also Sthar is having life crisis. I haven't talked to him in many days. I do not think the activity level is related. (Whereas normally, I would)

Snork

[Guilty Gunsmith]

But srsly, GG is suddenly finding hell of a lot of things about me scummy, considering that he recently said he mainly wanted to lynch me because he "owed mastin a favor". Why not make a fucking case about me from the beginning?

Snork has been on a mission to reread the thread and most of the case came from that. Decision to vote you was mine at first and mostly based off things posted previously (which tbh I am having a hard time tracking), mastin agreeing with this read, and me having a spatter of townreads (so PoE).

[Guilty Gunsmith]

PV, don't you think you are kind of self-defeating here by being overly explicit about what you want? I just read up, I'm alive. Just tired as all get out right now and stressed so gimme some time.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I really want to believe that the backup is town, but every time I see Ac post, I want to lynch that slot with fire.

Actually 2393 looks kinda town.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I kind of like Saki as town after after the latest string of posts. Kind of. Anyhow, if you think Majiffy is lying then...lynch Majiffy. There should have been 3 inventions last night and the only ones totally claimed are a track and jailkeep. Sooo I tdon't think its too much of a stretch to think Majiffy got #3.

I still support an MTD lynch. His recent post to Titus was just..a startlingly bad interpretation of her post and tried to make it out like Titus knows he town out of that which was just sleazy.

I could probably lynch Bulbazak.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Four. There should have been four.

acFan said he couldn't use his last night because of the timing; mastin was lynched so didn't get to use hers (presumably). I got a Track shot. Vezok got a Jail shot. There is one left unaccounted for by my numbers.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Spoiler:

Majiffy help me lynch MTD and I will help you lynch Bulbazak tomorrow then regardless of flip. Or if you want someone else by then I'll give you extra consideration. Also, dude, I don't get the blind mollie read. I mean nothing shes done really looks town to me like at all, D1 included.

~Bird Man

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I really wish you people would BACK OFF

:\ Back off of...you? Ok, I don't think anyone is voting you or really discussing you all that much except maybe me and bulbazak. Saki? Ok I guess, I don't quite get why people think they are obvscum at this point either.

I just don't have any posts of yours that I can read and think "oh ya Mollie is probably town" is what I'm getting at here. No passion, nothing really outstanding. I get that you are on perma-V/LA or something like that, but still. You are simultaneously using that as a defense and asking me why you don't look town. Which really feels to me like you know that you don't look town. I'll give a better answer in a bit.

While you are here though, thoughts on the MTD wagon and just MTD in general?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Also deadline is officially in under 4 Days. If we could make a point to lynch someone in the next 48 hours, that'd be excellent.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I m not in love with your idea that mtd is scum but I have him as /hardtoread. I had him in my earlier notes as town but his recent posting is meh.

I figured you'd actually have some interest in looking at whether or not you would vote MTD considering:
[x] deadline is coming up soon.
[x] you don't want to lynch Saki (and MTD is kind of the CW to that).
[x] no one is helping you lynch Marquis and you aren't really making any effort to get people to help.

You can call your less amount of access whatever the hell you want. YOU brought it up unprompted in response to me saying you haven't done anything that looks town. I don't care. What I do care about is that I don't really have a townread on you. When I state that, you throw up some excuse about activity and then argue with me over the nature of your limited activity. Rather than do protown things like figure out a good compromise vote or making a case for your vanity wagon.

What am I missing here?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I sheeped you onto marquis...isn't that where my vote still is?

No, I haven't voted Marquis even once. Nor the Doduo hydra.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I sheeped you onto marquis...isn't that where my vote still is?

In fact, you are the only person to vote Marquis today.

Further, I don't think I've called Marquis scummy even once all game.

What the actual fuck is going on, Mollie.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

you seem to want the day round to hurry up and end?

Oh please.

All I want. All I fucking want. Is to get somebody to L - 1 BEFORE we are <48 hours on the clock.

I can't believe you are trying to bounce this back on me like I'm scummy or some shit. You've been voteparking Marquis all day. You have called it a sheep vote despite being the only person to vote him. You have asserted that it was ME you were sheeping which is beyond absurd. The dead line is in < 4 days. I can damn well demand that we lynch someone before < 2 days in order to account for all the lethargy and apathy in this thread and how long it will take us to react to unforeseen things like the person being lynched claiming a PR we would rather not lynch.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I have been out of it. Can someone list the claims?

Vezok got a Jail shot and used it on me last night.
I got a Track shot and used it on Bulbazak last night (fail).
AC is a claimed Backup Inventor turned Doctor
Majiffy got a ??? last night and used it on you and got ??? (innocent?)
Vezok is a mason. Thats it.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I want to hear from Majiffy first.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Also I didnt recieve another invent so nk and lack of invent point towards my inventor maybe being scum.

I don't quite follow. Why do you think this?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

kill only makes sense if they know my full result and that it cleared titus. Furthermore I wasnt given another invention so scum doesnt want me clearing more townies/finding scum

I don't really agree with the first bit here. I kind of thought titus was a PR (the JK inventor specifically) after all her softclaiming. Also I don't see why you think its unreasonable for scum to assume that the clear is meaningful given how adamant you were about it. Alternatively, you are scum and knew it was a hard clear. Let me get back to you on that one : P. I am curious - do you have any suspicion who gave it to you (y/n?).

2nd point, I don't see why someone else getting the invention means that....thats kind of a leap.

I'm half tempted to say you should claim what it was anyhow, but I'm curious who ends up claiming receiving all the shots.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

VOTE: ZZZX
Because Snork isn't here to derail my scum lynch this time.

<3.
~AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Looked at Titus's last few posts. She seemed interested in Saki lynching, so I could see myself voting that today. Sure why not UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Speedy Saki
Trying to figure out what I think about Majiffy.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

VOTE: ZZZX
I changed my mind; there isn't enough fire in the universe for this. The whiteknighting and town-cred grabbing is really just that bad. Can we please?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

VOTE: Marquis
But only if your slot continues its upward trend in correct sentence structure.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I had the Track; Majiffy went nowhere. Was wondering if I could catch him lying about inventions, but yeh.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Prod dodge? I'm in seattle so I'll be around just limited access.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

hi there.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

i should say that i got lost somewhere around page 50 or something and efforts to catch up have not been successful. but i'm willing to talk to anyone about anything. AP's been super duper busy so we're probably pretty out of sync, but i've sort of been following along.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

i'd be happy lynching LC. i'd have to check and see why AP wanted to vote marquis but i don't completely disagree with that either.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

lol

call it a crisis of identity in terms of playstyle. i needed a reset after faith/house party.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

etl/gunthings is a higher priority right now

oo we are? why?

and as far as why now/why like this.. not sure really. i was just having fun. i wasn't planning to out it. the alt/playing this game as the alt, really had nothing to do with anyone on the player list. it was more that i wanted to hydra with AP for another game and this was already an established account, and at the time the game started, i was only playing on snork. and then i got pretty drunk and accidentally outted it elsewhere. so the jig was up

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Majiffy is the over-explaining/awkward/rigid feel of his posts alignment indicative or just how he sounds all the time? I don't have any other games with him to compare and i haven't had time to look.

-snork

see I didn't think that majiffy looked overexplaining/awkward/rigid at all at the time of this post I had the opposite reaction.

That wasn't about majiffy. I was asking him about ... I think vezok? I can't remember. I think it was vezok. Jiffy indicated he'd had experience with him, so I wanted to get his impression of the style and whether he thought it was alignment-indicative or just general posting style.

you bring me up as nullscum in post 59 but hadn't done anything to interact with me. why?

At the time, based on what was in the iso. I just didn't feel the fire. I kinda expected you to prod around until something caught you and then push it, but you didn't really push anything too hard, so it made me nervous about you. For the most part, I left the read to AP since I trust him to read you more accurately than I can.

you also keep voting for lying cat and when you posted and I thought you replaced in you instead decide to out yourself. why?

like star looks really fucking scummy right now and you are doing nothing about it

I don't quite understand this part. Are you relating the two things - voting LC and me outing? They aren't really directly related, though I did feel it was inappropriate for me to post as ETL about game-related things when you didn't know who I was. I thought it was rather unfair, so I switched over.

And yeah I dunno. I haven't read the last 60 pages so if his level of scummy has changed recently I don’t know what to say about it. I kind of think we'd be dead by now if sthar was actually scum, but I've used the nightkills to catch him before and I also know that sthar has been pretty MIA from the site for the last few weeks. I am happy lynching him because I refuse to be duped by him again. On my re-read, I got to about page 30 and then got busy with work again. however, the interaction between LC/wicked early on seemed really important, and if there's scum there it has to be only one of them. I'm heavily leaning towards LC on it, cuz I really like wicked and I get this feeling like scum are picking on him.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

1. okay. how is you saying that majiffy was being awkward/stiff/bleah not about majiffy exactly? are you saying you were doing that in order to put pressure on majiffy but you were seekritly addressing vezok? I still have to read up to your conclusion of that. but we know vezok is conftown and yet you are ignoring that star wants to track vezok. like this is a pretty big thing. unless pn decided to clear vezok cos of *reasons* which I don't think bert would do vezok is conftown.

You misunderstand. That post was directed at Majiffy about Vezok. If you go read the posts together, it will make sense. And that was before the mason claims.

2. I thought we had some exchanges which I am still looking for. cos you were pretty insistent that I was scum and at this point I am not sure you were leaving me alone to ap. I would have to be reading things in context as in how the thread was navigated at the time.

At that time, I was just trying to get some reads going. I didn't have much direction. After a while, I decided to just leave it for later and let AP read you.

3. you look like you are trying to mirror what I said about star earlier. I don't want to be pwned by him either but the timing of your outing looks like you are trying to cover for him. I mean like where is your vote cos I don't remember.

How would it cover for him? I don't really understand this logic.

and you say this while tying wicked/lc together so yes I think your timing of your outing yourself is relational and I am pretty sure I am not crazy.

You are. But what I'm saying is that I

don't

they are tied. Early D1, they were arguing about... something I don't remember the specifics of... but sthar was being scummy about it while wicked was being pretty straight forward and open. I still don't understand how that turned into a wagon on wicked and not on LC.

As for why I haven't changed the vote - AP has been running the show for a long time now, and I'm just now starting to come back to the thread. I kind of want to wait until he gets back from Seattle so I can chat with him about his reads before changing any of his decisions.

p-edit: lol yes.. comma.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't think it is dumb but I am giving it a break cos I know how etl/mollie interactions occur

i think we have both changed a fair bit <3

if you don't quite understand it, i would rather talk with you about it until you do.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

i am okay with LC but sthar is nice(i think)

weren't you just saying how mean they both were?

anyway, erm.. sthar - you're full of shit and you should die. <3 the only thing saving you is AP being V/LA.

so, I kind of agree with jiffy about the MTD/Saki split end of day. But like, we've been trying to lynch LC since early D1 and every time somehow a different wagon happens, so I really would much rather lynch LC already.

- not AP

p-edit: have you played with beast before?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

LC's posts last few pages are just reactions. As they have been this entire game when arguing with anyone.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

also jailkeeping ac causes any actions targeting him to be blocked. this is like power role 101.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Mollie are you saying that there is a scum counterwagon to scum?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I wasn't in that game; not sure if AP was. But in your example, there still existed a town counterwagon.

Vote Count 3.4

ac1983fan - 1 (beastcharizard)
beastcharizard - 2 (ac1983fan, Marquis)
Lying Cat - 4 (Bulbazak, ZZZX, vezokpiraka, pirate mollie)
Marquis - 2 (Speedy Saki, Guilty Gunsmith)
pirate mollie - 1 (Wickedestjr)
Speedy Saki - 2 (Majiffy, Lying Cat)

Not Voting: PeregrineV

Wickedestjr is V/LA until July 16th.

7 to lynch. Deadline is in 7 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes.

Unless you want to count marquis, beast and yourself as "counterwagons", there isn't one. Before this VC, iirc, there was a sizeable wagon on Marquis based on the conversation going on (but I will need to review all the VCs anyway, so I'll double check this later).

I'm concerned about ZZZX. I've flipflopped on him a couple times during this game, but overall his attitude this game is just so not anything like his attitude from other games I've played with him. And I really don't like his presence on the LC wagon, along with vezok.

Mollie actually pointed out a really really big point I didn't even consider - Jingle's absence here (like Antihero Reboot). Sthar's scumgame is solid and Jingle hung back quite a bit in that game to let Sthar handle any hot water they got into.

Egh but that wagon looks horrible...

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Final Vote Count of Day 1

Marquis - 3 (PeregrineV, beastcharizard, Speedy Saki)

mastin2

- 9 (Lying Cat,

MTD

, Marquis,

Guilty Gunsmith

, ac1983fan, Wickedestjr,

Perpetual Nonsense, vezokpiraka, Titus

)
Speedy Saki - 1 (

Bulbazak

)
Titus - 2 (Majiffy, ZZZX)
Wickedestjr - 1 (mastin2)

Not Voting: pirate mollie

9 to lynch.

Unknown on mastin's wagon: LC, Marquis, acfan, wicked
Counterwagon: marquis
Unknown on counterwagon: PV, beast, saki
Unknowns off-wagon: jiffy, zzzx, mollie

Final Vote Count of Day 2

Lying Cat - 2 (pirate mollie, MTD)
MTD - 8 (PeregrineV,

Guilty Gunsmith, Bulbazak

, ac1983fan,

vezokpiraka,

Wickedestjr, Speedy Saki,

Titus

)
Speedy Saki - 4 (Marquis, Majiffy, beastcharizard, Lying Cat)

Not Voting: ZZZX

8 to lynch.

Unknown on MTD's wagon: PV, acfan, wicked, saki
Counterwagon: Saki
Unknown on counterwagon: marquis, majiffy, beast, LC
Unknowns off-wagon: mollie, zzzx

Overlap between the two sets of unknowns: wicked, acfan
Overlap between two sets of unknowns on cws: beast

This kind of confirms my townread on beast. And looks bad for mollie/zzzx.

And actually, now that I'm looking at this, I don’t understand why jiffy wasn't voting mastin after hollering for her head all day long...

- not AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

What do you mean? You've only ever townread the townies that were being wagoned?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

And that

is

your fault... it is something you can control by scumhunting. Why are you trying to shirk responsibility for your own votes?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

ZZZX.. you seriously just came here to quote that, give me an excuse, and then disappear?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

YAY AP said I could change the vote.

After reviewing the VCs, I'm gonna VOTE: ZZZX.

I think all 4 can be found in {ZZZX, acfan, saki, marquis, LC} in order of strength, with wicked/mollie as very outside possibilities if ZZX or acfan are town, but for the most part we both have wicked/mollie as town.

conftowns vez, bulb
strong towns beast, pv, jiffy
Wicked/mollie are just after these as "probably town".



- not AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I'd like to hear the gunsmiths explain their reasoning more on Beast. I haven't seen anything particularly town from him, and Marquis is making a fairly solid point.

1) yes he has done town things. like be beast and be town.

2) he's not scum.

3) VCA says so.



also you are scum probably. so you just want me to say something you can use against us and that's cool.

{ZZZX, LC, Saki, Marquis, acfan}
^^^ all scums are in there, i guarantee it.

cant decide between lc or marquis today. kinda wanna lynch lc because sthar, kinda wanna lynch marquis because vca.

jiffy what do

[Guilty Gunsmith]

oh oh also this not town jingley uh uh no way. i remember town jingley from sc's game. i protected town jingley because he was town jingley.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I have a mild townread on marquis.

= "marquis is my scum buddy."

Sthar8 assures me that you're somehow town, although he didn't have time to tell me why before leaving, so I'm willing to wait until tomorrow to hash that out with him. GG has been my strongest townread all game, and they're syncing on ZZZX, who I find null. Yeah, I'm willing to put my vote there over an inexplicable townread my V/LA partner seems pretty sure of.

= "Did I mention that sthar is V/LA? That's why he looks scummy. Don't blame me. I'm just jingley and I have no opinions. I'm not scummy." (Also maybe probably ZZZX is town then.. will think about this s'more.)

Mollie is my biggest scumread right now, but sthar8 has experience reading her and I was giving him time to see where he got there.

= "mollie is not my scumbuddy buut i'm trying to get people to think she is."

I'm also not going to be able to put forth the time or effort to get her lynched today. PV is not scum if ac000014 is town, which should be known tomorrow.

= "acfan is my scumbuddy. "

Jiffy was townish, and I'm in agreement with him on Saki, but I'm forbidden from trusting myself on that.

= "Jiffy and saki are not my scum buddies but I think Saki is mislynch fodder and I will buddy Jiffy until it happens."

Bulb is town if PV is, also something that should be solved tonight.

= "please waste your cop thing on someone i already know is town and not one of my buddies."

I'd like to hear the gunsmiths explain their reasoning more on Beast. I haven't seen anything particularly town from him, and Marquis is making a fairly solid point.

With that said, I'm totally satisfied on a vote on a null slot with as many town reads as I have.

= "i wont vote my scum buddy today."

There are 13 living players, meaning we have a couple of mislynches left to us, and a coplike role. I'm not really going to fight hard to get a specific lynch when this game is so PoEable.

lol....

scumbois!

[Guilty Gunsmith]

nevermind jiffy, i've decided.

VOTE: traitorous kittens

this flip is gonna change the game.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

You should know better than anyone that I like to make sthar8 do all the posting when we

hydra

roll scum.

FTFY.

also. i hate you.

UNVOTE:

[Guilty Gunsmith]

If you are town, who is the scum on your wagon?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

k whatever.

who is the scums.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

yall are messing all my shit up. stop that.

JINGLE

don't post and run away!! why wont you talk to me!??

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Saki, I'm going to refrain from calling you bad names. That post is very bad.

1) They aren't town for the PR claim. That would be stupid, and you are assuming that both Jingle and Sthar are stupid, or that the rest of us are stupid. They're town for other reasons - the flavor claim, them targeting us for the track invention makes A FUCKTON of sense, and they cannot be scum with Marquis, or why the fuck would they both claim on the same damn page when I know for a fact scum have daychat because it's fucking Antihero.

2) They have given us the tracker each time. We were blocked N1 but not N2. Your whole theory about "give them the track and then block them" is utterly ridiculous when we've been suspicious of LC all game and they knew that. There was a high probably of us tracking them. If this is true, why weren't we blocked last night?

3) LC actually doesn't make "barfingly horrible posts", you do. You have made this entire game a fucking circus.

Yeah Jiffy. I'm down.

VOTE: Saki

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I'm at work and don't have time for a big post

Then make the other one post. There's two of you. No reason for fucking lurking unless you are scum.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Your rationale for picking GG twice?

Because we're AP and ETL.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I can't vote him today. Sthar8 seemed pretty damned sure

idgaf. Sthar also thinks Marquis is town, yeah? So....... if you're town, and Marquis is town, where are the scum not voting? Saki's been on the block all day but never had more than a couple votes. Why do you think that is?

Not to mention... MTD.

Tell sthar he doesn't get to decide anymore. He wants to sheep, then sheep this.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

LC I asked you a question.

Look at all the wagons that have been on you since game start and tell me who the scum are.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I honestly don't know what direction I want to go in. There are reasons for marquis/LC/Saki town and there are reasons for marquis/LC/Saki scum, and the only reason I can figure for this is that scum are confusing me, but I just can't figure out who is doing it!

I'm all over the place and I don't like it. I need a scum lynch like yesterday.

I honestly believe that LC is town. Not for the claim, but the fact that they chose to give the track to us multiple times. Jingle/Sthar's familiarity with both me and AP, as well as our obvtowning since early, and the fact that we are still alive, all make sense for townTrackerInventorLC.

I'm stuck on early town reads, but I will admit I don't really know where to begin with Marquis. His claiming and the timing just doesn't make sense for scum. There was no impetus unless he felt he was doomed as the counterwagon to LC (that makes sense a little bit). I felt like he was actually scumhunting, especially yesterday when he gave up on waiting for ns and switched over to his main.

Saki... well.. his early posts felt pretty carefree and town in a Bert kind of way. My experience with Saki is really limited, and same for MS. His D2 posts were pretty crappy, and his D3 posts are worse. But... I get the feeling that it's motivated by confbias and not scumtunneling. Like, it sounds like he really believes what he's saying. The problem I'm having is that it's so easy for scum to be like "NO I

KNOW THIS GUY BETTER THAN YOU

" and it might even be true, but there's no way to prove that he's not twisting the meta to fit his agenda without comparable meta yourself.

I can't figure out mollie but there was one post she made a few pages ago that I really, really, really liked and felt that she wouldn't have any reason to make it as scum, plus AP's initial read on her, and general tone in the later ISO.

Wicked - I still don't fucking get the scum reads on this slot??? No one has explained??!!? His ISO looks beautifully town idgi...

Beast - I also don't get the scumreads here. The tone of his ISO is like 100% spot on the same from Dark Age of the Law. I did play with scumBeast once before but I don't remember the game. Anti replaced into it and pushed through the lynch on him. I'll have to find that and re-read it. LC - you want the answer on this, it's mostly gut but my gut is pretty reliable... well, most of the time anyway. As long as I can back it up with evidence. In this case, the evidence is scumreads elsewhere. So gut and PoE.

PV, Bulb, Vez, all town though vez is seriously scum MVP this game. Jiffy is.. jiffy. He cleared Titus who did then flip town and I dunno. She was crumbing a PR so hard I'm not entirely sure whether she was killed for that or because she was "cleared". I am definitely a little hesitant here due to his support of two mislynches, but they didn't happen without town so.. I'm having some trouble sorting those VCs.

This game is so entirely fucked up for me as far as reads and shit. I don't feel like I have as much a handle on it as I have in other games. Like Street Racers or How Do You Want to Die.

I think Saki is a good option for several reasons - PoE, VCA and because his spam posting is making this game hard to read and keep up on.

And ZZZX. Wouldn't mind lynching him just because. I'm tired of his posts as well.

I feel like I'm missing someone but I don't know who.

Oh yeah acfan. He's still scum. Are we just keeping him alive because he has the doc invention?

Oh and on that note - I am pretty sure that alignments were rolled separately from the PRs, so LC, your whole "this isn't a good scum ability, it's stupid" is not really applicable. Scum having a negative utility ability just means they can choose not to give it to anyone, thus removing an ability from the town power at night. The fact you've given it to us two nights in a row is stronger proof of your alignment to me than I think anyone else is understanding at the moment.

Somebody help me. I need a thread buddy. For serious. There are too many people I don't trust.

- not AP

[Guilty Gunsmith]

OH and something that occurred to me about the night kills - they were smart choices. There's really only a few people here I'd attribute those kinds of choices to.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

ZZZX, acfan, Saki, and beast.

I retract my beast read. This is where I'm willing to lynch today and no where else.

Can we coalesce somewhere in there and get another flip soon?

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I was Drunken Lies hydra with Guyett.

And I retract because that's what my brain says. I plugged in my strongest town reads, weighed those people's meta experience with the rest and checked where their suspicions were at, then compared with my gut and cross referenced. Math and vca says you are scum.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

Hey mollie. I am like 99.9999% certain LC is town. I see what you're saying about the interaction but it's not uncommon for town to form reads based on posts wihh othersrather than exclusively interaction. Would you disagree with that? I think you and I play similarly in that regard where we rely on interaction to get reads, but not everyone does.

Landslide beast votes are making me nervous, but I think it's just acfan/marquis.

Mollie what exactly are you thinking wrt beast? Would you lynch marquis or acfan today instead? Also I still dont get where wicked comes in there.

[Guilty Gunsmith]

I don't wanna lynch LC today.

mollie, who else do you want? Other than LC?

Also, LC, fine. Whatever. Don't lynch ac today. I would honestly rather have Wicked or beast or Marquis copped tonight, and acfan handled after that.