Advance Wars UPick!--Game Over..?

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/confirm!

...second.

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VOTE: Saki

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Holy cow this game went fast. I can't think right now.

We are lynching Varsoon today.

VOTE: Varsoon

Sheeping the most adorable player.

Actually you're both town, and all the crap I put in my catch up post was either stupid or commented on anyway.

Unvote

Will try again in the morning.

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Is Neo Black Hole a thing or a construct for this game?

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Is that even enforceable?

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Your plan has flaws and causes chaos :/

In theory it's great!

In practice the self interest of everyone who knows that they have a power and wants to collect those sweet sweet stars or whatever is going to outweigh the greater good and it should because I don't know what everyone else has.

That's even if we can come up with universal townreads.

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Link it and I probably won't but might.

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You know what, thinking about it I'm shocked it worked smoothly so I might actually look at it now.

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(...if you link it).

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Not a fan of STD but it's mostly a weak gutread.

:'(

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<3

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282 is wigging me out. Is Cabd always super confident? Holding someone to a preliminary reads list is a bit forceful, and nothing else is implying town (setup spec and such is cool but not telling). His confidence is reminding me of how I tend to play as scum.

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But how will you sheep yourself?

Pretty sure I said most adorable.

You think we're both town? I'd like to hear your comments on the possible scumslip, maybe you've already provided them though.

I like his AtE type posts, it seems like he genuinely made a mistake. "You assholes" sounds like something Varsoon might say to a generic group of people. I suppose he could be embarrassed by a scumslip. His calling you a jerk (grrrrrrr) doesn't seem like scum caught for the wrong reasons to me.

I know this doesn't guarantee anything, but don't scum typically have a brief description of their buddy's roles? Like ' "XXXXX" is a mafia roleblocker.' I can't see the wording, but if he's explaining the text they received vs. full claiming off the bat then I'd be more into it.

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So do you think he popped into the wrong thread to lie about his ability or he was just gambitting in the non-scum thread intentionally as scum?

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Cabd are you voting Varsoon?

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Cabd are you voting Varsoon?

Never mind, you're not voting anyone.

Is that a playstyle choice or the 2 people you seem to find scummy not scummy enough?

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Uhh

My current understanding is that varsoon meant to post his message in the scum QT and not the neighborhood, which would mean that he gains the ability of the first scum dead

Are you elaborating what you think the events are as described or do you actually think Varsoon is scum?

If the latter, why the votes on BPC and Mara?

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Both of you seem to be implying that Jugger's role as presented by Varsoon doesn't make sense.

If he's scum and he posted into the wrong thread, he'd be honest about his role, so I'm disconnected there. I'm seeing very little reason for him to be lying about his role except for the two unlikely situations I presented.

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I'm sure you are.

I was a bit wary of your vote on BPC at first but I think you're town now.

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Firstly, it makes no sense to assume the neighborhood was a masonry, which is what he claimed.

I didn't know this was going to be a neighborhood game, I assume other people didn't (at least Konowa specifically mentioned he didn't).

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I mean I don't really see how my explaining that I am capable of multiple simultaneous scumreads should have made you less wary of me, STD

Should I be wary of you?

Honestly asking for the scum PM pinged me towards you being town more than your obvious answer. But also thinking about it there's 2 scenarios:

You're Varsoon's scum partner and you know he's gotta get lynched so you wanna keep your hand on that one but you're trying to spread the love around and mislynch someone.

You're town actually trying to find the other scums and not speedlynch someone.

(mind you, I don't think Varsoon is scum, but you do so the above both apply). The bottom seems more likely.

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He never called it a masonry, though. A neighborhood

can

be all town aligned.

Is that a smart assumption? Hell, no.

But if Varsoon is dumb enough to post in the wrong thread he's certainly dumb enough to assume his neighborhood is all town aligned (uh...no offense).

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Your other two points are perfectly valid. Tbh I haven't even read his other entrances to neighborhood QTs and I'm not really likely to do so.

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plz, I'm pretty much already conf. town

I would vote you for this post, but I am too busy voting Varsoon

you know this is a joke, and where it comes from

and yes, I'm reading bee as town, though he's posted once. problem?

how did you get a town read off of this:

/confrim

Honey bee misspelled confirm. Obv town.

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I've been assuming this entire time that Mara and Honey Bee were neighbors and that she got the town read from there, but I suppose I really shouldn't assume that. Hmm.

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If there's scum in your neighborhood, they already know who all the neighbors are already most likely.

I too was really confused when I first got my PM, just cuz it's kind of different from what I'm used to.

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And normally that's fine, but the difference between you and Ceph is I feel like you've been more sucking up I guess?

but he's my favorite

what is your honest feeling on Ceph?

Town.

And I really like him <3 but that's not what you were asking

His push on Varsoon is very confident in a way that lacks the careful calculation of scum. It just seems a hell of a lot more likely that a foolish Varsoon made a goof and an overeager Ceph attacked him for it. If a Varsoon lynch is pushed to fruition, Ceph claims a lot of responsibility for championing it.

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4. Cephrir
7. fferyllt
10. Cabd
18. orcinus_theoriginal

^this is my "paragon of town" block at the moment.

20. Konowa

14. Brian Skies

19. Saki

Round out the list of solid town candidates.

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@STD: Okay but taking out any Varsoon interaction what do you think on Ceph's play?

I like that post just now where he said what I was thinking in a more eloquent form than .

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I tend to treat people who have the same thoughts as I have when pro-town as also pro-town.

Is there bias? Maybe. I'm trying to separate that out but I honestly think that the only thing that could be suspicious so far is a continued narrow focus on Varsoon if Varsoon is indeed town. So I'd need more time and content to reverse my read.

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I've practically softclaimed a bunch of people I'm not neighbors with. Since scum already know who everyone is most likely, I'm not necessarily opposed to revealing neighborhoods but I have no idea if that's sound logic or not.

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Going by fery's timeline, varsoon originally thought that the neighborhood was all town, and then realized his mistake. So by his version of events, he originally thought it was a masonry, and then realized that it wasn't. So this implies he thought, at one point in time by his version of events, that a neighborhood that has more than 3 people was a masonry.

i find it very hard to believe that varsoon would think that.

I think I just disagree with you there, then.

(You're referring to 400, yes?)

Or I could be scum driving a mislynch on varsoon? Interesting lapse of thought here.

By not voting him?

I still find it suspect that you ignored 30 posts where i was on two players i don't think you see as scum and gave me a "hey you're town now"-bone when I started asking you questions.

You seem to think it was because your responses made me think you were town. It was because I was paying attention to you.

And your reasoning for townreading me was an easily fakable question to the mod? Not sure.

I said it was more than your response, not that it was the sole reason for townreading. Yes it's pretty easy to fake. If there's no info to be gleened from it or if Nati doesn't oblige then you lose nothing as scum.

Tell me what you feel about BPC and my vote on BPC

Your vote on BPC is as much a deflection from the Varsoon wagon as you accused his vote of NS to be. When I first read it I thought it could be scum trying to champion a seemingly valid point to make a case on town.

I have no read on BPC's alignment at this time.

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I tend to treat people who have the same thoughts as I have when pro-town as also pro-town.

See this is only true when you don't actually say your thoughts in thread, cos then scum can just parrot what you say.

First, I said which isn't really much of a thought.

Second, Ceph said "dat ninja doe" which I assume means "dat ninja, doe."

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I don't think scum can not figure out neighborhood composition by PoE. At worst for them they have a group of players who are in unknown neighborhoods and all town.

pedit:

wat

No seriously I don't understand why you said that to me.

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Like seriously Cabd, I've been posting about Ceph's alignment, about orcinus's alignment, about your alignment, about your reads, and I've been answering a lot of questions directed to me by orcinus, BPC, etc.

I don't even want people to vote Varsoon...I think he's town...

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I'm so confused right now

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My inquiry to why orc wasn't voting Varsoon (and is the only inquiry into that particular topic as far as I recall) was more about him than voting Varsoon.

It's like you're not even reading my posts :'(

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I'm unlikely to vote Varsoon today.

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VOTE: Cabd

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I didn't think taking your vote off of Varsoon to seek other targets was necessarily indicative of you trying to mislynch him. From my point of view town on town seems more likely.

I don't really understand the other part of your question.

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The tell me things is cute, i like it.

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Cabd has been rubbing me the wrong way all game, front and center with setup spec and fanciful ideas for how this game should be played. That's all fine and dandy but it seems like it could just as easily be a smoke screen. The more it happens the more it bothers me.

I really didn't like his post on Mara, it seems forced to me.

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And part of it was just frustration, admittedly.

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I didn't think taking your vote off of Varsoon to seek other targets was necessarily indicative of you trying to mislynch him.

From my point of view town on town seems more likely.

I don't really understand the other part of your question.

Is that not sufficient? It's also possible I didn't really give it much thought, but I was also rolling from your point of view, which was Varsoon scum.

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It was serious, Saki, you put more effort into the pre-game than I've seen you put into a game (Cave Story for instance).

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orc: I'd share a glass of whiskey with you but I'm going to drive to school soon.

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Brian if you feel Cabd's setup spec can be alignment indicative, remind me: you are town reading him, yes?

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I just realized I stopped reading Saki's post after he insulted me.

hmm...

meh probably a good decision.

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I'm never getting to school today am I

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See this series of posts tells me several things.

1. Marangal is scum.

She can't keep her "reads" straight as she puts me as scum in her reas list but the third quote clearly shows she has me at null. The first quote betrays her as well, town-mara sees this player list and jumps at the chance to get to figure out all these people she knows.

Posting someone is scum and then saying

Its a read list, yes. that is where my gut takes me, atm and as far as cabd goes, if hes town and wants to be read as town, he can go and earn it. set-up spec is null, coming from him

Isn't actually going back on her reads. Technically the quoted post above doesn't call Cabd null but his setup spec as null. She's saying that this particular item that is easy to be townread for (imo) is null.

Some of the wording like "look at the third post again" is bothersome because of it's leading nature. He's trying to drive people to a point that frankly I don't see.

20. Konowa
14. Brian Skies
19. Saki

Saki and Konowa have barely posted so I don't understand putting them so high.

His accusation of me trying to get people to vote Varsoon for some reason concerns me. I don't know if it's a poor attempt to attack me or if I should just get over myself but it's grossly incorrect.

It is certainly possible town-Cabd (which I have no reference of nor do I care to look one up) could be doing this. I need to think on that but for now my gut wants me to vote here.

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I mean, I'm sitting here sort of laughing at the votes on me because they're meaningless, but if people want to leave some suspicion out there so I don't get shot night one be my guest.

You've misrepped me and have been blatantly ignoring anything I've said.

I'm not utterly convinced that Varsoon is getting lynched today, maybe I'm just daft.

I'd like to figure out if you are town or not personally.

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They are played very differently imo.

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Brian if you feel Cabd's setup spec can be alignment indicative, remind me: you are town reading him, yes?

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Ouch.

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Are my intentions with every post really that unclear?

I'm wondering if I'm having trouble reading Cabd or if I'm legitimately on the right path. I don't know if many people have blatantly expressed a town read of Cabd but as I recalled you did.

And seriously what other questions have I dropped that have been empty? Much of what I've done has been to try and determine someone's alignment.

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Unvote

I think I'm just frustrated right now.

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Saki and Konowa have barely posted so I don't understand putting them so high.

My impression of that list wasn't that of townreads, but of people he'd like to see being town this game ("solid town candidates").

Oh great, perhaps he could clarify that. You know, when I'm like "hey Cabd here's a list of reasons why I think you're suspicious."

Instead of a bullshit "everyone who's voting for me is just being silly."

His accusation of me trying to get people to vote Varsoon for some reason concerns me. I don't know if it's a poor attempt to attack me or if I should just get over myself but it's grossly incorrect.

:/

Elaborate.

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I don't remember.

Okay then, do you think I'm way off with 476 then?

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:/

Tell me examples, I can do nothing without that.

Did you not like my explanation to why I asked you (in quote you posted)? Where else?

I play very reactionary just cuz I don't really have time for reads and re-reads, though I have gone back this game and delivered quotes from earlier in the game in some of my posts.

I'm playing the "let's be more than friends" card on Ceph...are you implying I'm buddying up to him? I would call him cute no matter what alignment either of us are.

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Does Varsoon ever use the word "mason" or "masonry" in the neighborhood?

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And I asked for a clarification on that, and instead I got

"I'm laughing at the people voting for me."

Because the only reason you reach the conclusion that I'm harping on people about not voting Varsoon is if you're not paying any fricken attention to anything I've said and just went like "Oh, he said to orc, 'you're not voting Varsoon' therefore he's harping on him" when in reality I'm trying to point out why the hell I don't think orc is scum and Varsoon is town:

Or I could be scum driving a mislynch on varsoon? Interesting lapse of thought here.

By not voting him?

Orc is NOT voting Varsoon, thus not driving a mislynch.

As far as I'm fricken concerned, Cabd wasn't paying any attention and snipped that post without context. I'm like 'hey, what gives' and a 'hey point out where the hell else I've done this' and in response I get

I mean, I'm sitting here sort of laughing at the votes on me because they're meaningless, but if people want to leave some suspicion out there so I don't get shot night one be my guest.

I dunno, maybe I'm just being a little whiny bitch here cuz I didn't get a lot of sleep, but that was really FRUSTRATING to read when I'm trying to figure out Cabd because unlike 3/4 of the players here I have NEVER played with Cabd before so all I got is my gut.

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ugh I think I just need to walk away for a bit.

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It just looks like a misinterpretation from both sides.

I'm willing to accept this is true, the rest of 566 not so much but I don't think there's a point to having this argument so I'll stay quiet.

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I don't think Varsoon is scum but I think I'm in a minority (of approx. 1)

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I thought I have :/

I think it's a goof, I think assholes is something Varsoon might say to a random group of strangers, I think people are poisonously throwing words like "masonry" and "mason" around when it's implied but not said, I think that in a neighborhood game that is not announced as a neighborhood game where one suddenly finds themselves in a neighborhood the first thought is not "oh hey this neighborhood I didn't know I was a part of is totally a neighborhood which clearly means mixed scum/town", I think a lot of his AtE seems like a genuine "I goofed" as town instead of scum caught, I think scum are usually twice as careful as town and scumslips aren't just found under rocks, I think half or more of these points I've either mentioned or implied so take your pick.

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Going to get some coffee and slog through the pages that appeared overnight.

Wait, oh no! Coffee is a scumtell this game!

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Still thinking, Mara.

This is a lot to process.

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-varsoon thought he was posting in a masonry. not sure what to say to your accusation of us "poisonously throwing words around" because it's not very fleshed out

If Varsoon is scum, he thought he was posting in his scum thread.
He only thought he was posting in a masonry if he was town.

You say "Varsoon thought he was posting in a masonry."

The only scenario where he thought he was posting in a masonry is he is town...does that mean you think he's town?

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I <3 Save the Dragons

<3 Bookitty

but I think he's dead wrong on CABD. Giving information to town (and in this game I feel we really need it) is pro-town. A vague feeling that it's done for bad reasons isn't enough to negate the positive help it's provided. Same logic applies to Saki.

Saki is more of a meta read.

How much of Cabd's info has been helpful and how much is fluff? How much info has the potential to be helpful?

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Drinking the kool-aid I guess

VOTE: Orc

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Here's the rest of that post response:

-does assholes make more sense for varsoon to say to a random group of strangers or to a group of scum?

I can't speak for Varsoon, but my limited interactions with him says this make sense. Assholes implies some camaraderie, which could just as likely come from scum or a pro-town aligned group of people.

-i just don't see how varsoon assuming a mason-neighborhood makes any sense at all. i mean firstly neighborhoods never have an implication of scum/town, and varsoon has played with neighbors before so he knows this. it's also a neighborhood of 3+ people. don't know if you've ever seen a 4-person masonry, cos i sure haven't. we also note that the people in the neighbohood are listed right after the neighborhood link.

most importantly

, varsoon later said that he realized the neighborhood was not pure town. This doesn't make any sense! Varsoon says that he walked into a neighborhood QT, assumed everyone was town and IMMEDIATELY CLAIMED, realized that there was a possibility of people being scum, and then retracted. So varsoon is saying that he claimed thinking that he was talking to a large masonry for some ungodly reason. the likelihood of this pales in comparison of varsoon thinking he was in a scum QT and claiming, as i might add is M.O. for scum to do in their opening post in a quicktopic.

You're assuming a lot of thinking and processing was going on, instead of "oh sweet, game's up! Oh hey, here's the black hole. Oh hey, we can talk to each other! Let me introduce myself!"

I can't argue either way, I don't know. But I can say with certainty that I have rushed and made mistakes before so I'm not certain that this isn't just a simple mistake, no matter how convoluted it might seem.

-varsoon just generally AtEs a lot, don't know if you've read any of his other games?

I don't really remember if there was a lot of AtE in the game I played with him. Regardless, it's not really about the fact he's AtE-..uh...ing... but that the response seems appropriate.

there's also the added benefit that varsoon was a member of the black hole neighborhood. the scum faction of the game is called the neo black hole. this is an incredibly easy and likely mistake to make.

That's fair I suppose.

Thinking.

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My reasoning for outing my neighbors is that I thought scum already had access to all that info.

HOW WOULD I KNOW ALL OF YOUR ROLE NAMES IF I WAS SCUM?

O RLY?

Maybe I'm just too tired for this game but I don't get it...

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"oh sweet, game's up! Oh hey, here's the black hole. Oh hey, we can talk to each other! Let me introduce myself!"

and CLAIM?

...if he thought that they were all aligned with the town...uh...why not?

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I'm assuming that Orc is a counterwagon, I assume she's trying to collect town reads on it...I don't know how fruitful she thinks it is. I personally am not really assuming it's going to be fruitful.

The varsoon thing has muddled the waters and makes it really hard to figure out what's actually going on. I was energized when I started but now I feel drained.

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Fruitful as in "likely to happen," not fruitful as in "on scum."

[Save The Dragons]

Black Hole

is Sturm/Albert B. Rampage, Hawke/MafiaSSK, Lash/fferyllt, Flak/Cephrir, Von Bolt/orcinus_theoriginal, Jugger/Varsoon and is aligned with the

ALLIED NATIONS

.

I saw this as meaning that we were all town-aligned.

I literally can see how he can make the mistake from this post. I checked my role PM and it is similar.

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Why does every post Cabd makes bother me :/

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You know varsoon i might actually be giving you some benefit of the doubt here but after that replace out as last scum to try and win shitfest you fucking pulled, I refuse to give you the time of day with play like this.

Translation:

"Hey man, I'm starting to believe you or at least pretending I am but because you're you I can conveniently hide behind a suboptimal play if I truly believe you were scum."

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Fruitful as in "likely to happen," not fruitful as in "on scum."

i know that. just wondering if you're voting me to help mara build reads off the counterwagon or if you are scumreading me, because you haven't expressed an opinion on the latter

Sigh. I'm not really. I don't think Varsoon is scum though and I'm trying to figure out anything I can do.

Unvote

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ick.

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Not really.

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I am still curious as to why.

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wat

(the why was directed to orc)

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I am still curious as to why.

(To orc)

WHy what?

(it was to orc)

STD?

(if you are still asking about the why it was to orc)

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I thought 852 had something but I later decided it didn't. I think your case on orc is interesting, but I was in fact townreading him before, not scumreading him.

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hi albert

to summarize main wagons are on varsoon and mara and those two are pushing a wagon on me

to hear more about varsoon who is at l-2 press 1

omg he did it again obv scum.

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-awaits a vote from Mara-

you beat me to the joke

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To be fair Mara is pushing Orc for more than just that.

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like..

he's a non-threat

he isn't threatening enough to compel me to want to defend one of my town-read

he isn't threatening enough to me, when as town he is regardless of my alignment because he has the exact same bull-headedness as I do, but it isn't happening this game.

Cabd

is more of a threat despite being busy

moving

he isn't making pushes himself, he's letting others do it for him. As town, he would take everything in his own hands

his content level his low, and his post level his high, one of the highest posters in game and at the same time, he's pushing himself as one of the most useful players in this game

pedit: there isn't more, it's just more detailed stuff on what's already stated but I'm busy getting ready for a move, I can't be arsed for detail

This post looks like a case that doesn't mention the tell at all though.

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I don't necessarily agree, but I'm saying that it's more than just the silly tell.

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I hate to be having such a silly argument, but my point was it's not fair to say that mara is only voting orc for the replacement tell.

What post are you referring to when you say "case on mara?"

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IF

you're town, you've gone from a binary assumption that the neighborhood was all town to a binary assumption that contains scum and that it's some sort of public service to report anything that might be useful to scum there in the game thread. Like there is absolutely no room in your perception for a middle ground where neighbors do something nuanced with a contested neighborhood.

wat

Didn't he jump off the assumption that it's all town like 1000 posts ago?

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I really don't want to hammer Varsoon since I'm pretty damn sure he's town but I do want that tasty star, I'm not going to lie.

[Save The Dragons]

fuck it

sorry Varsoon

VOTE: Varsoon

[Save The Dragons]

I feel icky :/

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VOTE: Orci

this is all that needs to be done

No.

-don't see how anybody could've possibly seen that varsoon was town, much less declare him "literal god-town"

Seemed pretty town to me :/

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unfortunately I don't like discussing my Cabd read in front of Cabd

Yeah, no. That's not how this game works, orci. You don't just get to opt out of reading a player because you don't like to publically state it.

VOTE: MafiaSSK

[Save The Dragons]

1131 is awesome not just because of the poster.

Lynx's 1084 is bothersome.

Bookitty could be scum. I'm wary of her. I'm not currently scumreading her but my gut is telling me not to be quick to townread her helpfulness.

ABR being proactive towards a lynch seems appropriate for his play.

MafiaSSK, can you demonstrate a list of reads, or even give a few?

pedit: Sup!

Your attack on orc seems a bit like "look how town I am! Look at me! I'm town and I'm totally helping!" It's strange because I don't really recall you doing much of anything this entire game (yeah there hasn't been a lot of time that the game has been ongoing, so that's fine, but I question its genuineness.)

[Save The Dragons]

But even still, the ones that I most suspect would probably fall somewhere in flubber, orci, smp, and ceph. Pretty weak, but I can point out specific posts that have pinged me if you want.

Please do.

If you think I could be scum, it seems like that's something important you should be voicing.

Perhaps it's been something I've done in a neighborhood.

Don't be petty

Ceph is seemingly universally townread. If you have a reason to doubt that it might be more prudent to tell the town vs. orc's specific read on Cabd.

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Yeah, basically, if you take anything from this, Cephrir's whole reaction to my claim is really town.

pedit: I think I'd agree there, ffery! His excitement feels way off. Where Ceph's excitement about seeing this makes more sense coming from town.

I'm townreading ceph for his reaction.

Ceph being Town is the only thing I'm absolutely certain of.

Ceph/ffery and you all p much seem town atm

In post 396, BipolarChemist wrote:
what is your honest feeling on Ceph?


Town.

i want to call doc on fery/ceph/me tonight is that ok with you

[Save The Dragons]

Your move,

Kaiba

MafiaSSK.

[Save The Dragons]

Like you're literally the first person to accuse Ceph of being scum, and I'm really curious as to why.

It is certainly possible that someone jumped on the "Ceph is town!" train to get some townie points, but it's also possible that Ceph is bleeding town this game and anyone can see it, so I want to know what's different for you.

[Save The Dragons]

I'd like to talk to you about the lord jesus christ

The fact you weren't vigged is an indication there is no god

[Save The Dragons]

Like whom?

I didn't like his post I quoted in my vote. I've softened my stance as I've seen him talk, but there's also something bothering me about how he was pretty confrontational at first and then took a more humble, apologetic stance. I'm thinking now.

[Save The Dragons]

Why did you ask that?

[Save The Dragons]

I ask because this was asked and answered:

Honestly, a lot of my problems from a lot of the players come from a lot of inactivity, ironically.

But even still, the ones that I most suspect would probably fall somewhere in flubber, orci, smp, and ceph. Pretty weak, but I can point out specific posts that have pinged me if you want.

Shh. Quet Ceph. I was getting to it.

[Save The Dragons]

You wanted to see if his reads changed in the course of a few hours through the immense pressure of having one person vote him?

[Save The Dragons]

o.O

null atm

[Save The Dragons]

I didn't like his post I quoted in my vote. I've softened my stance as I've seen him talk, but there's also something bothering me about how he was pretty confrontational at first and then took a more humble, apologetic stance. I'm thinking now.

[Save The Dragons]

I like bookitty, but this exchange bothers me.

[Save The Dragons]

Who is 1334 directed to?

Do you mean this post? What don't you like about it?

He feigns ignorance as to what shitposting is and I don't follow his read progression on ssk.

I'm sorry I don't know what your definition of shitposting is and who it applies to in this game.

I think you've done a lot of shit posting in the last hour or so but I don't really think shitposting is necessarily a scumtell, so...

[Save The Dragons]

Don't lynch:
4. Cephrir
5. SavetheDragons
10. Cabd
18. orcinus_theoriginal

Unlikely to lynch:
7. fferyllt
9. honey bee
12. Albert B. Rampage
14. Brian Skies

Unsure:
1. wgeurts
3. Flubbernugget
6. BipolarChemist
11. Ms Marangal
20. Konowa
21. notscience

Okay lynching:
2. LynxKuroneko
8. MafiaSSK
13. SMP
15. grapes
17. Bookitty
19. Saki

[Save The Dragons]

My vote was reactionary from a post you made. I've liked pretty much everything else you posted.

[Save The Dragons]

Okay I refuse to answer any questions about shitposting until someone actually defines it for me because it literally could mean 10 different things to 10 different people.

[Save The Dragons]

I actually meant I like bookitty as a player

[Save The Dragons]

Bookitty seems to be playing the helpful for the sake of looking helpful card in some of her posts. The question of hers that I "intercepted" was me trying to figure out of this was the case. I don't think he reply was genuine, like "shame on

you

STD for screwing things up."

[Save The Dragons]

I've never seen shitposting mean anything else.

Do you really think I'm scum being intentionally difficult?

[Save The Dragons]

No orc, from this:

Well, not that I'll get any kind of answer now, but I wanted to see if they'd changed given the pressure on him. I also would have liked some expansion on why. It seems pretty clear to me Orcinus didn't want him in the neighbourhood, and I was wondering if that was part of the reason.

Why are you answering questions I didn't put to you?

Like paranoid me thinks I caught bookitty being lazyscum and she came up with a loose reason to ask the question in a way that makes me look worse and her as more helpful.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't really think shitposting is necessarily a scumtell

So why are you concerned about how you are posting comparatively?

[Save The Dragons]

flubber: Back to the very original question, who do you think is shitposting and why do you think I should be voting them over SSK?

[Save The Dragons]

I played with bookitty once over the summer, and we were both scum, so I can't really meta bookitty that specifically.

It does strike me as odd that she meta'd someone she's never played with, but that's not specific to her.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: flubbernugget

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: flubbernugget

This look opportunistic.

What feel opportunistic about it? I'm not really seeing a flood of flubberhate. I'm not as confident in my SSK read and wanted someone to put my vote.

[Save The Dragons]

Because I think ssk's play is poor and not scummy and I wanted to talk about that.

Why was ssk scum over poor town?

This is my second rephrase of the question and the third additional time I've asked it.

Okay I'm scrapping the nasty answer and I'll try and do this the right way.

First of all, in the terms of a mafia game, shit posting I assumed meant bad posting, which could mean stuff that is bad for town or stuff that is shitty on any forum. Since we're in a mafia game, the latter doesn't really apply. So the former would include stuff like spamming, being intentionally obtuse, or really it could be posting scummy things.

If you are trying to convince me that this is what you meant:

I'm heading to bed buuuut:

The definition of shitposting from Urban Dictionary:
1: The failure to make a constructive post
2: The inability to add useful information to a forum
3: Worthless overly offensive generally racists posts written in a manner which aggravates others.

Well, no one's been racist, and the idea of constructive and useful information has a different connotation in a mafia game than it does in a forum topic on something else. If it's related to content in a mafia game, yeah, there are a couple people who have not contributed heavily.

I'm not sure that this means they are scum, there are a lot of people who have destructive and unhelpful playstyles because they wanna keep some sort of meta credibility. Back in my early days on the site I played with some people that teenage me abhorred because they were just so tight-lipped with their play. It bothered me. But at the end of the day, it doesn't tell me universally if they're scum or not.

I'm not sure why I have to compare SSK specifically to shitposters, or why I specifically am held to this standard and no one else is.

But like I have already mentioned and requoted and have just explained above, I don't find shitposting to necessarily be a defining tell for scumminess. Often it is a playstyle choice, and it is important to try and divulge the motivation behind it. I have answered this question. That is part of the answer to why SSK is more scummy than a shit poster. I can't give you another answer so I'm sorry if that's not what you're looking for.

If you think shitposters are so bad, do you think I'm a shitposter?

Spoiler: In case you're curious why I called you a shitposter here's why

So my stupidity is coming off as a festering cesspool of stench.

That analogy is terrible.

So my stupidity is coming off as a festering cesspool of derp.

That's.....better?

Meh. Fuck it.

That's okay I've already given up.

That's okay I've already given up.

come on man don't be a quitter

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Yeah but if you're pointing the gun at a puppy's head....

Bottom line.

Do I come off as so fucking stupid that you really think a reaction test like that would have given you alignment indicative information?

Fuck I actually don't want to know the answer to that nvmnd.

See this is why the only way I can get people to talk to me is via online mafia.

Now, for why I voted MafiaSSK:

MafiaSSK, can you demonstrate a list of reads, or even give a few?

pedit: Sup!

Your attack on orc seems a bit like "look how town I am! Look at me! I'm town and I'm totally helping!" It's strange because I don't really recall you doing much of anything this entire game (yeah there hasn't been a lot of time that the game has been ongoing, so that's fine, but I question its genuineness.)

I think it's pretty clear that this vote was bothersome. He jumped onto a townread of mine and had
done nothing else. It seemed suspicious to me and enough for a vote.

Then there was this:

I didn't like his post I quoted in my vote. I've softened my stance as I've seen him talk, but there's also something bothering me about how he was pretty confrontational at first and then took a more humble, apologetic stance. I'm thinking now.

Like I mentioned earlier, his post triggered my vote. As he was under scrutiny and pressure from a bunch of people asking him questions at the same time, his strong attacks against orc turned into more statements of appease ment.

My thought process, which I recognize you do not have access to, is that at first he was trying to AtE to take some heat off of him, but as time went by I lost that impression. Being obstinate with his vote and some of his responses made me feel I might have been wrong. I was voting him for one post, not because he was the scummiest scum on the face of the earth.

Now, since we are having a conversation, here is another question to you:

Like whom?

or better phrased as

flubber: Back to the very original question, who do you think is shitposting and why do you think I should be voting them over SSK?

tl;dr; if you're flubber you should read it, otherwise shitposting as it applies to mafia is not a scumtell for me so asking me why I voted for someone suspicious over a shitposter isn't relevant, and I voted MafiaSSK for reasons and after conversing with him I started to change my mind.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Bookitty

[Save The Dragons]

I typically try not to meta too hard, and even if I did, we were scum together. I can analyze your scum game till the cows come home but I can't get a good feel for whether I can feel you out since I knew what your alignment was. Since that's the only game I've played with you now I have the arduous task of separating the personality from the scum version of Bookitty.

I pushed you before I voted flubber.

I think the self meta pushing is quite odd. If I were scum in this game I'd certainly consider using it to get you on my side.

@STD: Do you feel based on our previous game together that I typically am lazy as scum? Serious question.

I don't think you're typically lazy scum but I don't feel like our exchange was genuine, whether you were back tracking or not I'm not sure, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Save The Dragons]

I think most of the wagon on Varsoon is town, but I know firsthand the power of OMGUS, so I could even see him thinking his wagon was mostly scum.

This is interesting to me. I think there's almost certainly opportunistic scum on his wagon.

Varsoon

(11):

Cephrir

,

Brian Skies

, SMP, Konowa, Flubbernugget, Bookitty,

orcinus_theoriginal

,

Cabd

, fferyllt,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Save the Dragons

If I had to guess, one or more of {SMP, Konowa, Flubbernugget, Bookitty, fferyllt}

[Save The Dragons]

You've made at least 5 references to Oldy either directly or indirectly over the course of the game.

You've made hints that you've meta'd people.

Even though you think I'm scum and you know I was scum with you in Oldy, AND you are asking me to meta you as scum, I don't see you mentioning anything that specifically relates to my meta in Oldy. Am I playing like I was then in your opinion?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't really meta, I don't have time to read games. I have yet to really click on a single link that someone's posted. I don't really care. I use meta reads that I know, yes, but I try not to let that drive the ship since people can play outside their meta.

EBWOP: Okay, if you're going to use the DGB tactics in this game, I don't even.

Yikes. VCA is a lot different than the scumputer.

[Save The Dragons]

Show me a town game and I'll skim it.

[Save The Dragons]

Honestly I like ABR for town because his pushes on you seem genuine. I suppose it's not as strong as some of the others.

[Save The Dragons]

Also honestly I'm probably not taking my vote off you because of this

EBWOP: Okay, if you're going to use the DGB tactics in this game, I don't even.

Yikes. VCA is a lot different than the scumputer.

[Save The Dragons]

Bookitty I'm writing a novel, I'm taking classes, I'm trying to mafiascum, and find enough time to keep involved in my friendships and relationship.

I don't have time to do a cursory check of my recent games.

But since I'm assuming you are interested in finding out about my town game since you're town and not scum, which games have you checked of me?

[Save The Dragons]

I don't have time to do a cursory check of

my

recent games.

that should be "your", or really "anyone's"

[Save The Dragons]

This is interesting to me. I think there's almost certainly opportunistic scum on his wagon.

Yeah so exactly this kind of thinking is what lead to varsoon

Do you think Varsoon's wagon is all town?

[Save The Dragons]

We are all busy, I think, and if you don't want to do meta on people, then don't base your suspicions on meta of a single atypical scum game.

Okay Bookitty. Now please quote where I said I was using meta to vote for you.

In response, here's a couple of posts where I specifically say I don't really meta, and I think all of them pertain to you:

I don't really meta, I don't have time to read games. I have yet to really click on a single link that someone's posted. I don't really care. I use meta reads that I know, yes, but I try not to let that drive the ship since people can play outside their meta.

I typically try not to meta too hard, and even if I did, we were scum together.

I played with bookitty once over the summer, and we were both scum, so I can't really meta bookitty that specifically.

It does strike me as odd that she meta'd someone she's never played with, but that's not specific to her.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm sorry for the AtE I was being overly dramatic. I get a little heated when I get into arguments. I would never imply that my schedule is more taxing than anyone else's, but it is one of the many reasons I'm not really interested in meta. If I have meta info on a player, I sometimes use it, yes. I don't really have a good read on you.

[Save The Dragons]

Bookitty could be scum. I'm wary of her. I'm not currently scumreading her but my gut is telling me not to be quick to townread her helpfulness.

Please explain to me the reasoning for this post, which seems to be designed to inspire paranoia about me without actually taking a strong stance either way? Why would being helpful indicate that I was scum and especially notable for it, in the absence of meta information?

On D1 you made some authoritative posts that you were were receiving some town cred for. I'm hesitant to just give people towncred just because they appear helpful. I've been trying to trust my gut more since recently every time I try to write a logical argument against someone it's usually wrong but whenever I gut read someone it's more often right. I hate that though so I always try to rationalize my gut reads some how, or I ask them questions so I can help figure their alignment.

[Save The Dragons]

The STD vote was naked and was placed convienty at the start of a wagon which looked like it could grow.

Do you have a reason to think that the wagon was bad or otherwise should not have been formed?

[Save The Dragons]

Green is townreads. I should have made it another color but I was lazy, they should not be the same color as Varsoon.

[Save The Dragons]

Aka, don't wait, but if orci really is town, the shit he's pulling is completely unacceptable and disrespectful and I will probably blacklist him

I'm trying to tread carefully here, but unfortunately I don't recall anything particularly hostile, can you quote what specifically orc has said to cause this reaction?

[Save The Dragons]

Pretty sure mara is town.

Fence-sitting about bookitty, I'm not satisfied with some of her responses.

This is a quality wagon though:
VOTE: LynxK

[Save The Dragons]

It was wacky, but I'm reserving judgement until he clarifies some of his points.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: lynx

this wagon just became a whole lot qualityer

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: lynx

this wagon just became a whole lot qualityer

Suck-up :p

...but he's just so town

[Save The Dragons]

this wagon just became a whole lot qualityer

[Save The Dragons]

Lynx hasn't done anything at all to show he's town,

pretty much a terrible reason to wagon someone.

Bad everyone. bad. no wagon.

[Save The Dragons]

My concern about wgeurts is that his stream of posts is almost too zany to come from scum.

[Save The Dragons]

When grapes finally shows up.

why

I never said it was a bad wagon, just interesting.

define interesting

[Save The Dragons]

im tired okay

[Save The Dragons]

though that doesn't really explain what interesting means. Like you could literally replace the word 'interesting' with any other word and it pretty much tells you the same thing

[Save The Dragons]

Were you being sarcastic!?

Spoiler:

[Save The Dragons]

Lynx:

No I'm still waking up. You are entertaining.

Re: 1354
What specifically do you agree with?

All three of my naked votes were on people "unsure" and below. Why is a naked vote bad and a naked read list agreeable?

Cabd did propose a "star points for town reads" program.

pedit: fine honey bee steal my thunder

[Save The Dragons]

If that's your motivation, why didn't you vote for Varsoon on D1?

Great question considering:

So he hasn't been lynched because...

Whats the vote count on Var? Based on what I have read, I'm sold.

Other than that, will try to read up more tomorrow.

[Save The Dragons]

Lynx was a replacement...

[Save The Dragons]

:/

[Save The Dragons]

How are you reading STD?

(you know 1666 wasn't trying to make you look like a fool, but someone replacing in asking for a summary is different from someone who was playing from the beginning being like 'i'm lazy, summary plz')

Also don't vote orc.

[Save The Dragons]

@boo: Not necessarily a surefire tell but it can be informative. Why is that important?

[Save The Dragons]

@cheetory: I'm fairly confident he's town and I feel there are plenty of better choices for today.

@boo: my opinion is that it's likely null coming from ABR.

[Save The Dragons]

The short answer is that part of how I take stabs at a person's alignment by talking with them and conferring with my gut. Watching his play and talking with him makes me think that he is town.

I could try to go into more detail if I got more time, but his conversations and his reads seem organic to me.

[Save The Dragons]

There's nothing to ask Lynx or STD because neither of them contribute any original thought to the game.

This probably isn't worth arguing, but ouch

[Save The Dragons]

Busy week/weekend. Thinking about the game but I may not have a lot of time to post.

Unvote

I have liked Lynx's answers so far. One concern is that "why isn't he lynched yet?" kind of suggests it could be that he has hesitance to jump onto a wagon that he knows is on town.

@STD: Do you have significant experience with Brian Skies? Do you have a read on him yet?

No.
Yes, I get the impression he's town, he's trying very hard to solve the game, even if his posts are abrasive .

Bookitty who do you think is scum besides Mara?

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Mara

[Save The Dragons]

She's at L-5.

[Save The Dragons]

whoops forgot ABR was double voter.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm concerned she's using an AtE but I just don't understand what specifically you did that caused her to not want to play with you ever again if you're town.

I haven't been giving this game enough attention and I was blindly making assumptions that I've come to realize are impossible. I'm trying to get my head back in the game.

I'd love to hear her speak when she gets a chance and present some more eloquent thoughts.

Also, honestly, I am aiming to get stars.

pedit: well never mind.

[Save The Dragons]

orc you should take some time and walk away from the thread.

[Save The Dragons]

boo: not telling.

[Save The Dragons]

Boo:

what changed?

Not sure if that was directed at me, but I assumed it was since I've been more or less townreading mara.

Part of the reason was me assuming things.

I am no longer assuming these things, hence I think I was wrong about mara.

(also kind of embarrassed cuz I was stupid so I'm not likely to give it away freely).

[Save The Dragons]

orc you should take some time and walk away from the thread.

are you really going to defend that replacement request?

No, it was bad.

But it's a game, it's not worth breaking friendships over.

[Save The Dragons]

I think the replace out is null.

But even though her logic is self induced, let's say scum mara does have a power to remove stars and she does so to orc. Why is she picking the target she wants to convince people to lynch and trying hard to get him lynched? She either doesn't think she can get him lynched (which is possible with townreads on him) or she wants to prevent him from using a power N1.

In the end I have trouble reconciling anything as more than null, I think I'll look over her ISO if I get a free moment to see what made me think she was town.

Unvote

Need to do other stuff for a bit, then I'll try to get my head back into the game.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Bookitty

[Save The Dragons]

Replace out is null in my opinion, scum are just as likely to feel persecuted as town. Her drunk exchange was bad.

I can buy the act that he actually thought you guys were all town from the wording. granted, my neighborhood is

considerably smaller

that your guys's one, if I were to act on impulse like I usually do I would have made the exact same mistake. I can easily see me being in varsoon slot all game, and I don't think I would have behaved any differently

also, what he says is true. Outting your neighborhood probably was a pro-town thing to do, especially considering the fact that it's probably the largest faction aside from scum, in the game and could also be an indicator to how big the scum-team is which is extremely beneficial to town. If scum likely already know who is within that neighborhood and what's going on inside of it, and such why hide it from the rest of town?

as for varsoon, yes he's been anti-town, but that doesn't equate to scum. Instead of fixing it, the only thing he continues to care about is the fact that he's made a mistake, and he kinda sorta tried to fix it but not really succeed at doing so which is town. He's wallowing in his own mistake, and making more mistakes because people are pressuring him from that one and no one is giving him any breathing room. Not until STD stated him as town, and not until I included him in my list of people who are to gain stars along with me. No, not all o the people who are reading him as scum, are scum but they will be some in there. It's pretty much guaranteed that there will be people who don't really even care about his alignment anymore, and just don't want him to be around who are town themselves. I'm goinng to have to figure out the dierenece between the two later because, even when Orci flips scum me being killed is unlikely assuming I even get what I want

However these posts suggest a pro-town way of thinking. It aligns almost perfectly with what I was thinking.

I suppose it'd be weird if all the scum silently slithered onto the Varsoon wagon. I also suppose one could get some pro-town cred by being a Varsoon supporter. But to be so blatant about it? This would be such an easy wagon to drive or to simply ignore as scum.

The strong stance taken by Mara could indicate she knows Varsoon is town already because she is scum, yes (an argument Varsoon brought up against myself). At the same time, she's literally trying to derail the Varsoon wagon.

I do not think Mara is scum, and I'm eager for her replacement to speak.

[Save The Dragons]

Let me guess, STD. Lurking? :p

I never stopped suspecting you, I just saw a tastier wagon.

[Save The Dragons]

Are you not voting because you don't want people to realize you're scum with the Neotank?

[Save The Dragons]

Him, and no.

[Save The Dragons]

If outing your neighbourhood is a pro-town thing to do, then do you think everyone should do it, STD? Why or why not?

No. I think that scum already knew who everyone's roles were in that neighborhood so I'm not so sure it's a bad thing. It doesn't necessarily make it a good thing but I don't think there was information that scum didn't already have.

Publicly broadcasting everything may not be the best strategy, especially for smaller neighborhoods that are statistically less likely to have scum lurking in them.

What is your view regarding Mara's tunneling on Orci? Her defense of Varsoon is far from the only thing she did Day One. Did you agree that he was scum and should be lynched?

I didn't. I briefly voted him as a counter wagon because a couple of things bothered me about his D1 play but more things suggested he was likely town. Tunneling orc is strange, but once again it's so blatant. I think her attack was wrong but her intentions were in an attempt to help town.

[Save The Dragons]

I believe that scum is mostly contained in this large swath of people, some of them I just need to see more posts from.

1. wgeurts
2. LynxKuroneko
3. Flubbernugget
6. BipolarChemist
7. fferyllt
8. MafiaSSK
13. SMP
15. Cheetory6
17. Bookitty
19. Saki
20. Konowa
21. notscience

From that list, the least likely to be scum:
1. wgeurts
15. Cheetory6
21. notscience

The ones I think most likely to be scum:
13. SMP
17. Bookitty
19. Saki

[Save The Dragons]

It was serious, Saki, you put more effort into the pre-game than I've seen you put into a game (Cave Story for instance).

[Save The Dragons]

A couple things! A bit later you basically say Ceph is universal townread but still point out a specific large post and say it’s generally awesome. Are there any specific points that you think are like super important or what?

From that post? iirc I had woken up to 5-6 pages to read so I went through them. I liked Ceph's post and I agreed with pieces of it. I can look at what particularly was stuff from that post that I liked, but to be perfectly honest, if someone else made that post I may not have commented about it.

Also, on Lynx, I’ve mostly been getting a he’s too busy to make a legit post read on him. What bothered you about that post in particular?

The way he treated asking for doctor protection as a bad thing. I can certainly see it being not necessarily good, but scum doing that on d1? Was there another reason to suspect orc? It sounded like scum trying to find a reason to find someone suspicious.

I also hoped Varsoon actually scumhunted or set up a better case against others instead of "I'm town, don't lynch me", which never really helps.

The tone of this too is kind of weird like "trust me, I'm town" but it comes off a little smarmy.

[Save The Dragons]

Hey ns albert is scum come wagon him with me

Why is ABR scum for disputing that you're cop cleared?

Why is ABR scum for reasons other than that?

[Save The Dragons]

some meta work fery and i did, and his awkward wagon movement that looks incredibly opportunistic

Do you think any of the votes on the ABR wagon are opportunistic?

[Save The Dragons]

If it's a messenger that's scum, they might have no intention to claim if they want to use their messages for evil. While I'm not really sold on that being the case, I don't necessarily see how ABR's skepticism is unhealthy.

The wagon has a lot of people I was reading town, so I'm not necessarily sure. I guess I don't see it.

Chet: ffery is probably the only person on the ABR wagon I'm not townreading (okay I'm not really sure about notscience at this point). She bothered me a little with some of her handling of Varsoon yesterday, but I haven't put a lot of thought towards her D2, other than I realized she was one of the people on Varsoon that I didn't suspect of being town. I've been meaning to look back and see if I could better quantify what bothered me.

I remember D1 she would chime in with some of the stuff I was thinking and would have posted had I not been catching up, which I liked.

[Save The Dragons]

Going to catch up later today but

@chet

if you do

Code: Select all

[post]postnumber[/post] or [post]2233[/post]

with your numbers I will love you forever. Like 2233

[Save The Dragons]

wow that sucks

I swear it works if you do a post that exists.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm busy right now boo

[Save The Dragons]

STD: Please make a case on me to go along with your vote.

gut

[Save The Dragons]

Unvote

[Save The Dragons]

Neo Black Hole is scum.

Black Hole is one of the neighborhoods.

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah I kind of do too but it's not impossible.

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE: Lynx
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

Am I missing something else here? You're saying you can't vig scum?

Knowing that his claim doesn't preclude him from vigging scum, has your opinion changed?

[Save The Dragons]

He started being able to double vote D2.

[Save The Dragons]

Go deal with your health chet we'll be okay

[Save The Dragons]

Albert, how'd you come about this double vote? Unless you've explained that, in which case STDragons will catch me up I'm sure.

Also I have two votes today.

No, it's not. My doublevoting ability is called Deathray Diplomacy.

I believe that's all he's given.

[Save The Dragons]

SMP who would you like to see lynched today?

[Save The Dragons]

I have no idea. Gonna ask questions then I'll sleep on it and probably not know tomorrow.

MafiaSSK, are you townreading ABR and why or why not?

BPC, does wguerts's action make sense as scum?

Bookitty, can you summarize why you were voting Lynx? Also, who would you like to see lynched today?

Konowa, (don't take this the wrong way) are you ever not aloof in a game?

[Save The Dragons]

Chet: ffery is probably the only person on the ABR wagon I'm not townreading (okay I'm not really sure about notscience at this point). She bothered me a little with some of her handling of Varsoon yesterday, but I haven't put a lot of thought towards her D2, other than I realized she was one of the people on Varsoon that I didn't suspect of being town. I've been meaning to look back and see if I could better quantify what bothered me.

I'm curious how you're coming along with this.

Not at all, not likely going to happen before deadline.

[Save The Dragons]

Lynx/DedicatedScribe wagon seems like a policy lynch to me.

Why policy lynch?

Also, why specifically SMP?

[Save The Dragons]

orc did you have doubts about ffery at any time before tonight?

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: Cheetory6