Capcom Crossover Chaos - GAME OVER~

[The Will of Heaven]

hai

VOTE: skitty

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

why the fuck aren't you people lynching me

because we dont believe you

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Wisdom's vote is a good one, but we really need to sort the UT thing out. UT can't be alive at night if he's telling the truth.

and how do you suggest we do that?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

This is scum too, especially since he wants to vote a survivor claim (of which there is no point) and keep the anti-town role alive.

Then why aren't you calling me scum as well?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

We're not lynching a person who's asking to be lynched in a bastard game ffs

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

because of my role PM.

bastard game, dude

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Real question is - "Do you think he's lying?" - my gut tells me no.

My first thought when I read his post was "jester". If not jester, he has something that benefits him/his team upon his death.

He could be telling the truth, but no way we're risking it.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Wisdom, I know bastard game means lies and stuff, but this isn't one of the things I would think can be touched or altered by that.

I can't think of something that makes survivor unlikely to exist, but okay

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

That does sound like a good point. Though why do you think they would fake claim survivor? How does that help them?

~Wis

pedit: @major

[The Will of Heaven]

@Wisdom: He could be telling the truth, which is why we should lynch it and not leave the possibility of a cult open.

No, we shouldn't. Whoever believes him can just refrain from targetting him.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

vote: Untrod Tripod

guys, you need to lynch me today.

I'm a town-aligned player

whose passive ability is that anyone who targets me has their wincon changed to Cult. The negative utility if town targets me is too high, and leaving me alive will raise too many questions come lategame. There's no way to get a cop to verify my alignment, since the cop will become a Cultist.

lynching me is the optimal day 1 play from my perspective.

I believe you! I would rather wait for inevitable day shenanigans to take care of you, though: if Kise made a bastard game and didn't include a day vigilante, then shame on him.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

This, on the other hand, seems like bullshit.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

why the fuck aren't you people lynching me

Mind claiming flavor as well?

I agree that jester seems unlikely, but I'm suspicious of shenanigans.

-kagami

What kind of shenanigans?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Wisdom's vote is a good one, but we really need to sort the UT thing out. UT can't be alive at night if he's telling the truth.

Because lynching someone who has no effect on achieving your wincon seems like a

brilliant

idea.

I think next we should have a cop claim and lynch him! I mean, he wins with town too! He could be a threat later if all scum are godfathers!

It's in your best interest to vote town should you make it to lylo. That's a problem.

Policy lynching claimed survivors is dumb on Day 1. The only reason to lynch Skitty is if you think he's actually scum, otherwise vig shoots them if they don't have any other targets OR we lynch them the day before MyLo, assuming they're willing to contribute.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

If you're wanting to lynch them because they claimed survivor, that's a policy lynch. If they have other actions (besides the claim) that makes you think scum, then by all means, enlighten us.

His exact words were "I want to vote the survivor because they probably aren't a survivor". To me, this says he wants to vote Skitty because they're lying scum and not at all as a policy lynch, so where the fuck did you get that from?

[The Will of Heaven]

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

This, on the other hand, seems like bullshit.

~Wis

I said this and bulba defends this guy for some reasons. What you think of bulba?

I think Bulbazak is also pretty scummy.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Eh, I guess I'll claim. Won't get any juicier than this!

Wisdom, I know bastard game means lies and stuff, but this isn't one of the things I would think can be touched or altered by that.

I can't think of something that makes survivor unlikely to exist, but okay

~Wis

How about, "another survivor with a different win condition"?

I can't just win with anyone. I specifically can

only win with mafia or town

. I highly doubt the moderator put in two survivors in the first place (though admittedly possible), but if he did, they would have the same win condition. And They specifically stated they can win with ANYONE, which is very different from mafia/town only.

This generally just adds to the "Skitty is prob scum" point. Although, if you win with only mafia or town, why didn't you push to lynch UT?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

That does sound like a good point. Though why do you think they would fake claim survivor? How does that help them?

~Wis

pedit: @major

Notscience claims survivor because he hates playing scum and it gives him a reason to lurk.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

@Wisdom: He could be telling the truth, which is why we should lynch it and not leave the possibility of a cult open.

No, we shouldn't. Whoever believes him can just refrain from targetting him.

~Wis

Redirectors, town who don't want to be town, etc, third parties with impossible win conditions, etc. It's better just not to leave that option open.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

@Wisdom: Then why aren't you voting him?!?

I've already made a post addressing this.
I don't like your AA read.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

I actually probably wouldn't mind playing mafia in this playerlist, nt tho

Multiple survivors with different win conditions isn't a surprise to me in the least

I doubt one survivor would be strictly easier than the other, though, which is where the problems begi. Why wouldn't you mind playing scum in this playerlist when you mind playing scum everywhere else?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

The way AA9 talked to me is not coming from a town place. She tried to placate me and then went with a fake question to UT to make it look like she was town scumhunting. Nothing about that exchange was natural and coming from a town mindset.

So if we choose not to lynch a claimed survivor who has committed to vote the largest wagon. We get to Lylo and the survivor votes the towniest person so the remaining scum jump on to win. How is this not be the outcome? And if this is the outcome how is it not better for us to lynch now.

Again, this is voting for policy reasons. If Skitty is a survivor, then her only goal is to stay alive, which means it doesn't matter who she votes. Personally, since survivors share the wincon, I have no problem with that and would instead make sure that she votes in our favor. If you think she's scum for the claim, then that's one thing. However, if you are trying to lynch her because she's a survivor, which it sounds like you are, then that is very scummy, since you are focusing on a useless wagon over a useful wagon on an anti-town role, or in lieu of actual scumhunting.

P-edit: @Major: I don't see the contradiction between the two roles.

I am saying lynch the survivor who wins with both factions as policy. At Lylo how will you ensure the survivor does not vote with scum.

It seems dumb as shit to lynch a survivor for being a survivor when there are likely many many many killing roles that can take care of bad survivors for us and we don't have to waste a lynch on it. What do you think of the Major Minor claim?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

The first rule of ArcAngel is that she doesn't like people on her back.
I disagree about fake tones and the bullshit about "town asking questions", considering the question she asked wasn't meant to be answered.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Did I say any alignment

No I didn't

I said everyone yes because shorthand and too lazy to consider other possible options as I typed that out as soon as I got the role pm

As for why I claimed D1, I

stole

am using bork's idea he mentioned over skype once to claim early as survivor and just do nothing so niether side as incentive to want you dead

I think I'd like the challenge and you guys would let me get away with murder wis

pedit-

the latter

This is bullshit. You said everyone: if your role PM said mafia or town you would have said mafia or town.

[The Will of Heaven]

Arcangel gets indignant as town. However, go back and read my post prior to hers, I was not on her back at all.

I don't understand how this adds to your point.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

vote: Untrod Tripod

guys, you need to lynch me today.

I'm a town-aligned player

whose passive ability is that anyone who targets me has their wincon changed to Cult. The negative utility if town targets me is too high, and leaving me alive will raise too many questions come lategame. There's no way to get a cop to verify my alignment, since the cop will become a Cultist.

lynching me is the optimal day 1 play from my perspective.

I believe you! I would rather wait for inevitable day shenanigans to take care of you, though: if Kise made a bastard game and didn't include a day vigilante, then shame on him.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

In the meantime, I'm going to be nailing scum if you don't mind.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

This is bullshit. You said everyone: if your role PM said mafia or town you would have said mafia or town.

It's almost like I assumed I was the only 3p in this game!

In a bastard game? Really?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Arcangel gets indignant as town. However, go back and read my post prior to hers, I was not on her back at all.

I don't understand how this adds to your point.

~Wis

Aka how can you claim she's attempting to placate you when you haven't given a scum-her a reason to placate you?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

In the meantime, I'm going to be nailing scum if you don't mind.

~Wis

Kinda hard to do when you're voting me!

And wis I thought there was a thing about normal games where you can have 1/2 weird things and didnt realize it was bastard until today

You thought you signed up for a large normal.
Called Capcom Crossover Chaos.
When the sample PM is Ryu the Bastard Mod.
And UT's claim was right above you.

Is there still anyone who believes Skitty is town or are we done here?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

bluba,
Placate you? what are even saying? I am not trying to scum hunt.. I am scum hunting. I didn't believe Skitty claim because it was odd. And there is no reason behind it especially the timing. If he can win game with mafia or town, it is no good for town and moreover you defense over this looks weird.

You were trying to get me off your back and were overdefensive. As for Skitty, if they win with mafia or town, then it's a wasted lynch as the role doesn't hurt anybody. Outside of Factions, I've never seen a win stealing survivor role. The only reason you should be lynching them is if you think their claim is fake.

P-edit: If she thought I was pressuring her, then she would have tried to placate me. I had been suspicious of everyone else on the Skitty wagon, and I outright said that I'd go back over the wagon later, because scum were sure to be on it. She told me to chill out right after that.

Again, "overdefensive" is not a scumtell for AA.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Also, I'm not going to let AA9-scum skate by just because she's overdefensive as town. Her response was all wrong, Wisdom.

I won't let AA9-scum skate by because she's overdefensive either, but when the reason why everything is "all wrong" is because she's overdefensive, you're starting from a bad point.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Bulba that's nice and all but wisdom is what we call a tunneller

Nice discredit.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Thanks!

Maybe if you used correct meta I wouldn't have to!

There's another!

I think I'd like the challenge and you guys would let me get away with murder wis

pedit-

the latter

"Total coward" is something that might have applied in the past, but it doesn't apply anymore.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Hey Wis, just curious

Say by some miracle I'm actually a survivor

who is scum on my wagon

If GGG is on your wagon, him.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

There's at least 3/4 who have voted me.

Also I want to talk to Wis's other head.

You are. Wisdom hasn't been posting for a while.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Say by some miracle I'm actually a survivor

wat
So you're not actually one then?

[The Will of Heaven]

Vigging UT is prolly ok. Lynching him isn't.

[The Will of Heaven]

Those numbers look like you just made them up

Why is bulba town?

[The Will of Heaven]

Isn't that risky though? He can't really expect to live much with that claim.

pedit: @zzzx

[The Will of Heaven]

His aa push felt like a bunch of bullshit to me, aa did nothing scummy

[The Will of Heaven]

You see the thing is if he survives day 1 he survives all game long

I don't think so

[The Will of Heaven]

What the fuck are you dumbasses even arguing about. Fucking lynch me

SOMEONE is dumb enough to target me tonight. We do NOT need to introduce a cult to the game

What I dislike is that he's making no attempts to scumhunt. It's acceptable not to want to lynch others, not trying to find scum before he gets lynched isn't.

But that just further proves that all he cares about is being lynched, because he gains some kind of benefit from it (or just wins)

[The Will of Heaven]

Have you played with her before?

[The Will of Heaven]

She's not really playing any differently than usual. I am not townreading her but I see nothing to scumread there either.

Thoughts on skitty?

Pedit: @om

[The Will of Heaven]

Agreed, counter claiming survivor with a fake survivor claim is a stretch

[The Will of Heaven]

Which brings us back to lynching skitty. Nacho even pointed out why ns declared he'd be lurking

[The Will of Heaven]

you're pushing this instead of looking elsewhere

I'm looking everywhere and pushing scum, yeah
Not seeing your point

[The Will of Heaven]

It was Nacho

I'm not that sure but he could be scum. All he's talked about was survivors and lylo

[The Will of Heaven]

You remember that game where you/syr/bert were scum with mala/mara/mollie and bert derphammered me?

No?

[The Will of Heaven]

Is there still anyone who believes

Skitty is town

or are we done here?

...

Did you understand what I was trying to say there?

[The Will of Heaven]

Pity.

What game was it?

[The Will of Heaven]

Hard boiled.

OK, I remember that now! I was scum with Mara, Syr was mod, and Mala and Bert were town, but yes I remember.

[The Will of Heaven]

Is there still anyone who believes

Skitty is town

or are we done here?

...

Did you understand what I was trying to say there?

It's sort of a moot point because your options are 3rd party or scum.

I'm glad you understood, then!

[The Will of Heaven]

UT, you can scumhunt a bit, sexy

[The Will of Heaven]

I know its hard when you're gonna die soon but you're also basically confirmed town thanks to imminent death and thus am in a pretty fantastic position to get shit done.

[The Will of Heaven]

They should be!

[The Will of Heaven]

Hard boiled.

OK, I remember that now! I was scum with Mara, Syr was mod, and Mala and Bert were town, but yes I remember.

Wrong one

You were there as Bertkerbs and reg kerbs were there.

I sort of remember that one. Why?

[The Will of Heaven]

Eh, I guess I'll claim. Won't get any juicier than this!

Wisdom, I know bastard game means lies and stuff, but this isn't one of the things I would think can be touched or altered by that.

I can't think of something that makes survivor unlikely to exist, but okay

~Wis

How about, "another survivor with a different win condition"?

I can't just win with anyone. I specifically can

only win with mafia or town

. I highly doubt the moderator put in two survivors in the first place (though admittedly possible), but if he did, they would have the same win condition. And They specifically stated they can win with ANYONE, which is very different from mafia/town only.

This generally just adds to the "Skitty is prob scum" point. Although, if you win with only mafia or town, why didn't you push to lynch UT?

~Wis

you're pushing this instead of looking elsewhere
i think you're scum

VOTE: will of heaven

Instead of looking elsewhere?
Are you reading our posts at all?

[The Will of Heaven]

Go reacquaint yourself with it

Or, you could tell me what point you're trying to make instead of sending me on a wild goose chase >.>

[The Will of Heaven]

Instead of looking elsewhere?
Are you reading our posts at all?

where else did you push nacho

Bulbazak, GGG. Would you like me to quote those pushes?

[The Will of Heaven]

Oh and Wisdom pushed UT!

[The Will of Heaven]

This is scum too, especially since he wants to vote a survivor claim (of which there is no point) and keep the anti-town role alive.

Then why aren't you calling me scum as well?

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

If you're wanting to lynch them because they claimed survivor, that's a policy lynch. If they have other actions (besides the claim) that makes you think scum, then by all means, enlighten us.

His exact words were "I want to vote the survivor because they probably aren't a survivor". To me, this says he wants to vote Skitty because they're lying scum and not at all as a policy lynch, so where the fuck did you get that from?

[The Will of Heaven]

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

This, on the other hand, seems like bullshit.

~Wis

I said this and bulba defends this guy for some reasons. What you think of bulba?

I think Bulbazak is also pretty scummy.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

Etc. Etc.
I would rather not spam the thread with quotes that you could find of you read your ISO, but I'm completely willing to continue if you need me to.

[The Will of Heaven]

twoh
your first two with bulba were you challenging him
then you declare a scumread

Yes.

[The Will of Heaven]

i love you two

[The Will of Heaven]

'i disagree with you'
'i disagree with you'
'i also think youre scum'

thats not a push

the fact that you disagree with someone can have nothing to do with a read
now, if you had explained why you disagreeing with bulba
meant he was scum
when you presented that read

then it's a push.

You could have a point if the only people we addressed or commented on was Skitty.
You don't have a point when you're accusing us of making only one fully fleshed out push in less than a day of game time.

[The Will of Heaven]

i called you scum once and you rage hardcore at me?
thats also fake

you really haven't played with arc, have you?

[The Will of Heaven]

How can you believe both skitty's and majors claims. They have overlapping conditions

vote: ooba

Why did you vote ooba here exactly...?

But you don't want to lynch UT either?

I feel like there's not much of an argument for lynching anyone but one of the claimed three anti-town roles today.

Nacho wants to vote UT.
Wisdom is paranoid of some role shenanigans that Nacho doesn't necessarily care too much about.

so... why are you voting for a survivor exactly

I'm voting notscience because he claimed survivor and it seemed like an easy way for him to coast as scum.
Then Major Minor claimed a survivor role that basically couldn't exist alongside notsci's and he changed his claim.
His excuse for claiming the wrong role is because he thought he was in a normal game.
That was when he became incredibly obvious scum.

[The Will of Heaven]

Personally, I think Major is more likely to side with town in a Lylo situation, which we should be trying to avoid anyway with claimed survivors.

Major is also actually a survivor, which helps things quite a bit.

[The Will of Heaven]

Yeah guys, that's the point I'm not sure is quite understood.

Major is survivor. Skitty isn't, they're just scum.

Therefore, we lynch Skitty. Not because of survivors or third parties or policies. Because they're scum.

~Wis

[The Will of Heaven]

this would totally be a fair point

if the game wasn't open for only like 15ish hours.

So what? He posted a lot to tell people to lynch him yet didn't attempt to get a single read. If he really is town what excuses him from not trying to find scum before getting lynched?

[The Will of Heaven]

What reactions were you expecting exactly? And why are you even claiming?

[The Will of Heaven]

In other news, not liking dramonic. Nothing of essence in his posts.

[The Will of Heaven]

I actually believe Skitty's claim now and think there's very little chance he's scum.

What? Explain.

[The Will of Heaven]

yeah

So who are all those people you wanted to lynch?

[The Will of Heaven]

he knew it was wisdom because nacho expected dram to be useless

[The Will of Heaven]

I am soft claiming a role which hurts mafia when killed/lynched

ok i didn't see this before
i thought you were town i kind of still think you're town?

[The Will of Heaven]

there's not really many ways people are going to react to a claim like that

[The Will of Heaven]

but regardless, i am still sorry to disappoint

[The Will of Heaven]

Imagine if cult recruits a scum member, then that guy outs the whole scumteam GG

as was already said, scum usually cant be culted

[The Will of Heaven]

Or, he's lying and is an anti town role that wants to be lynched. Either way, lynching him seems bad.

Agreed and I don't get why people are voting him so easily. It feels like an obvious trap.

[The Will of Heaven]

I am ignoring wis cos of a personality clash and I will not be talked out of that cos it is for sanity and health reasons. even after saying that i like some wis's pushes, at least I think they were wis's.

That sounds like an excuse to avoid interacting with me.

Which pushes were those?

[The Will of Heaven]

the will of heaven has successfully
fooled every player into thinking he's town
im the only one smart enough to see through his trap

thou could be the second

cool story brah

[The Will of Heaven]

How about we designate someone scummy to target UT, then lynch that person and see if they are cult?

[The Will of Heaven]

I am ignoring wis cos of a personality clash and I will not be talked out of that cos it is for sanity and health reasons. even after saying that i like some wis's pushes, at least I think they were wis's.

That sounds like an excuse to avoid interacting with me.

Which pushes were those?

that isn't an excuse and you very well know it.

So which pushes did you like?

[The Will of Heaven]

the town thou are saying is falling for ut's trick
is currently voting him into the stratosphere

Because they think he's honest, not because they think he's scum

[The Will of Heaven]

How about we designate someone scummy to target UT, then lynch that person and see if they are cult?

I am pretty sure not everyone has targeting ability/not everyone follows rules

If the designated person is scum and doesn't follow rules, we will lynch them anyway so it works out

[The Will of Heaven]

meh you have a point there

[The Will of Heaven]

coaching a survivor?

Hint: skitty isn't a survivor

[The Will of Heaven]

That said, I disagree that was coaching. Shos is not a newb to do it like that inthread.

[The Will of Heaven]

after I die it'd be super cool if you all took note of all the people who were interested in potentially adding 3rd party power roles to the mix!

What people exactly?
Why are you still not scumhunting?

[The Will of Heaven]

Also, how the fuck do you not know what placate means.

I don't either

[The Will of Heaven]

I don't want to lynch UT.

Yeah I hate it when people say shit like this.

Is there a reason you've completely ignored the posts

I

said this then?

[The Will of Heaven]

This is true. Shos could have been considered coaching there. Not worth my vote right now but I like the argument in a way. If Skitty flips scum, the argument is even better.

It feels like Skitty's buddies are trying to link him to shos because they know he's doomed.

DN and bro should be definitely be on everyone's mind when Skitty flips scum.

[The Will of Heaven]

Omfg three scum caugght

Deathnote bro andzzzx

ZZZX why?

[The Will of Heaven]

Why is it only one directional with the flip? Why can't we lynch Skitty first? Wouldn't the tell play out both ways?

Good point.

Bro, if you think that was coaching, why the hell are you voting shos over skitty?

[The Will of Heaven]

Omfg three scum caugght

Deathnote bro andzzzx

ZZZX why?

how comes you don't ask me abotu the others?
DN's post was 1598.1221% coaching to ZZZX.

Because I agree with the others, see 468

[The Will of Heaven]

And no, that's not coaching either

Can we stop with coaching entirely? Scum might have daytalk after all

[The Will of Heaven]

VOTE: skitty

[The Will of Heaven]

DN and bro should be definitely be on everyone's mind when Skitty flips scum.

Quoting to remind you

[The Will of Heaven]

Nacho explained why, Om. Ns claimed this in order to lurk and do nothing. It fits his scum meta.

[The Will of Heaven]

its starting to annoy me that you vote people from different reasons than the ones you should be voting them for

skitty is not a fucking survivor

[The Will of Heaven]

for*

[The Will of Heaven]

and that probably means we haz a town dayvig!

you dont say

i thought it was a scum dayvig who threw away a free mislynch he could have

[The Will of Heaven]

UNVOTE: did I miss something?

- Skitty was counterclaimed by another survivor.
- Nacho and I have explained notscience's scum motivation for claiming survivor as scum.
- I have pointed out people who are already attempting to link Skitty with others like shos as possible buddies using ridiculous reasons.

[The Will of Heaven]

Unofficial VC:

Skitty (4) - dramonic, TiphaineDeath, DeathNote, The Will of Heaven
GGG (3) - mental somnic, adorkable, ooba
The Will of Heaven (1) - droog
Bulbazak (1) - ArcAngel9

[The Will of Heaven]

only scumgame of ns I remember is this

nacho prolly has more

[The Will of Heaven]

This is true. Shos could have been considered coaching there. Not worth my vote right now but I like the argument in a way. If Skitty flips scum, the argument is even better.

so survivors have buddies who coach them, according to you.

[The Will of Heaven]

so vote skitty?

[The Will of Heaven]

it means "appease" btw, but i had to google it

i doubt many non-native english speakers are supposed to know it

[The Will of Heaven]

nope

[The Will of Heaven]

where are you getting that from?

why is ooba or adorkable town?

[The Will of Heaven]

i dont see either, explain?

[The Will of Heaven]

so quote something that makes you think he is town and explain why so i can see it then

[The Will of Heaven]

Big long post = town

[The Will of Heaven]

post length and activity are not alignment tells. this argument is only made by newbies in their first game.

[The Will of Heaven]

Then say they're gut reads, don't tell me he's obvtown and that I should be seeing it somehow

[The Will of Heaven]

so why are there two scum on skitty?

[The Will of Heaven]

I'd agree with that more if skitty wasnt scum

[The Will of Heaven]

adorkable looks town, but nothing not fakeable

dont like ooba much

[The Will of Heaven]

I get a general fake feeling from his posts. His reads in 301 were the obvious consensus ones. Also I don't like how he's WKing Skitty and even seems confident about it when skitty is obvious scum.

[The Will of Heaven]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32611 - this is the classic ns scum game. Additionally, you could check out final fantasy au mafia that just ended but I'm too lazy to link which is one of ns's stronger scumgames, but it's also not a scum game he could get away with here, hence trying to coast on a survivor claim. For me, the biggest reason where I went from prodding ns to post more and not be a lazy shit (you'll notice a lot of my posts ended up saying "kill noncontributing survivors" instead of "kill claimed survivors") to actually being 90% scum was when his win conditions changed and it was incredibly obvious he was fakeclaiming.

[The Will of Heaven]

This line "Say by some miracle I'm actually a survivor" really seems to come from a non-lying about their role mentality. I think them saying "win with everyone" was a genuine mistake.

What do you think of ns saying that the only reason he posted "I win with everyone" was because he thought he signed up for a normal game and survivor was the one non normal element and he somehow didn't see UT's claim right above his. He said he didn't read, but it's hard to believe he wouldn't notice a few snippets from that post and read it out of curiosity, and it's much, much harder for me to believe NS doesn't know how the normal queue and the large theme queue works after being on the site for as long as he has.

[The Will of Heaven]

Also:

@NS: There is only one scenario that I can think of based on your recommended reading that would cause me to back off you. If this scenario is true (I doubtit is), it still requires more honesty and it requires you to actually give a fuck about the game and play townily. There is no reason for you to lurk/vote on the biggest wagon if the excuse you provided isn't true.

[The Will of Heaven]

@ those heaven things

nacho where is the reach out? when you ignore me in games i scumread you every time like I want poetry and...mebbe some flowers. that wld be nice. but in any case you are ignoring me and i don't like that. I am ignoring wis cos of a personality clash and I will not be talked out of that cos it is for sanity and health reasons. even after saying that i like some wis's pushes, at least I think they were wis's.

Dear sweetest Mollie, heart as sweet as dripping honey, emotions as deep as a hole to the center of the earth, eyes as beautiful as 1000 Helens and company worth fighting 1000 wars over:

I will ignore you in games when you are not here because it breaks my heart when you are not here, and also because saying hi to people before they even show up is because I won't be half as much as a sweetheart to you two if I think you are scum. I also entered this game pretending to be Wis, which was a wonderful beautiful freeing spiritual experience, and I think "hi Mollie!" would have also ruined the ambiance of that a bit. What do you think of my push on Skitty?

[The Will of Heaven]

the will of heaven has successfully
fooled every player into thinking he's town
im the only one smart enough to see through his trap

thou could be the second

You could also be the only player so far to mess that read up!
Congratulations!
Why haven't you commented on my responses to you?

[The Will of Heaven]

How about we designate someone scummy to target UT, then lynch that person and see if they are cult?

I am pretty sure not everyone has targeting ability/not everyone follows rules

If the designated person is scum and doesn't follow rules, we will lynch them anyway so it works out

I am tired of you ignoring me in games nacho

@ wis

the bulba push looks good I think. I didn't get an early grasp of scum!bulba but he isn't feeling quite right when I pivot the game from a certain standpoint but it is early. like ut is begging to not be left around and it seems like a bunch of pple are running around trying to give reasons in order for him to be left around. including you. and *weirdly* that kind of reads town to me.

mebbe this can be the game where we heal old wounds. like I am still butthurt about castle.

This is my first post since your replace-in: Skrew and I were playing the new Smash for 24 hours straight last night! If you could tell the difference between me/wis posting or maybe called to see how I was doing every once in a while you might know that!

[The Will of Heaven]

ok so
i still stand by what i said about the last ns game i read through
he is significantly more contributive despite the lurking there
here he is just combative
which isnt as good but
different to scum but not town jsut makes me more likely to believe him as third party

i still want caled to post though holy fucking shit

What is your opinion on my #637?

[The Will of Heaven]

Now that the game's started-

We are a survivor that wins with everyone.

Our flavor is Pacman. That being said, we're going to be jumping on the main wagon from here on out.

Course, I might have some witty banter for you all. One doesn't just get in this awesome playerlist and lurk the entire time. Pretty much all I'm going to do though.

skitty, why did you claim this? don't you know that survivor is a policy lycn?

Holy shit the coaching.

VOTE: Shos scum flip here is basically confscum Skitty ^_^

I thought the incredibly obvious lying was already confscum Skitty, but maybe I'm just not the sharpest tool in the shed

[The Will of Heaven]

In the meantime, I'm going to be nailing scum if you don't mind.

~Wis

Kinda hard to do when you're voting me!

And wis I thought there was a thing about normal games where you can have 1/2 weird things and didnt realize it was bastard until today

[The Will of Heaven]

Nacho already responded to Mollie twice!

[The Will of Heaven]

idk really im just strangely uncomfortable with the idea of lynching skitty and i would rather they b vigged tomorrow instead

even despite all this potentially condemning evidence piling up against them my gut is still like dont u heckin do this mate

I understand this, and would be incredibly happy not to lynch notscience today if he gave us anything resembling effort. I love him, but there's not really any way that I'm going to let him survive this game day because of my appreciation for him as a person alone thanks to his "imma vote biggest wagon + lurk" and his strange "oh I didn't realize it was bastard/thought I was only third party despite UT's claim right above me!" response.

[The Will of Heaven]

Nacho already responded to Mollie twice!

inb4 "you're not Nacho, you're Wis pretending to be Nacho"

[The Will of Heaven]

'i disagree with thou'
'i disagree with thou'
'i also think youre scum'

thats not a push

the fact that thou disagree with someone canst have nothing to dost with a read
now, if thou had explained wherefore thou disagreeing with bulba
meant he was scum
when thou presented that read

then 'tis a push.

Thou could have a point if the only people we addressed or commented on was Skitty.
Thou dost not have a point when thou'rt accusing us of making only one fully fleshed out push in less than a day of game time.

thou mean this? barely counts as a response
thou said thou were pushing x
i say thou'rt not
'O! but that's too high a standard 'tis day 1!'

I point out we have multiple suspects and have pushed reasons for why multiple suspects are scum.
You say "oh, that's not a push its only a push when you provide a case in thread!"
I point out its dumb as hell to push us for only making a case on one person when the thread has been open for 15 hours. Not one game day, 15 hours. You sure as hell haven't managed to come up with a push on more than one person in triple the amount of time: why should we be held to that standard?

[The Will of Heaven]

imo it doesn't really feel like town mollie but whatever, I'll leave her to nacho

[The Will of Heaven]

And do you notice you're ignoring people for pushing both survivor claims because "survivor, policy lynch" while not scumhunting elsewhere? Have you noticed you still haven't addressed our case on Skitty for why they are scum and not survivor? Did you even know that existed?

[The Will of Heaven]

Tinfoil theory: skitty is a cult leader.
I dont see survivor claim coming from scum for no damn reason and the early survivor claim with intending to do nothing is just sketchy.
Hes either CL or SK. He doesnt seem to be afraid of vig threats so hes prob a bp too.

CL would make a very very large amount of sense, actually.

[The Will of Heaven]

imo it doesn't really feel like town mollie but whatever, I'll leave her to nacho

the more i read her wall the more i think she's scum
what is pinging u

dunno she feels needlessly verbose, like all that babbling about 3rd parties was useless.

[The Will of Heaven]

Tinfoil theory: skitty is a cult leader.
I dont see survivor claim coming from scum for no damn reason and the early survivor claim with intending to do nothing is just sketchy.
Hes either CL or SK. He doesnt seem to be afraid of vig threats so hes prob a bp too.

Why does sk/cl work and scum doesn't?

[The Will of Heaven]

you voted skitty and ut

we never voted ut

[The Will of Heaven]

@ those heaven things

nacho where is the reach out? when you ignore me in games i scumread you every time like I want poetry and...mebbe some flowers. that wld be nice. but in any case you are ignoring me and i don't like that. I am ignoring wis cos of a personality clash and I will not be talked out of that cos it is for sanity and health reasons. even after saying that i like some wis's pushes, at least I think they were wis's.

Dear sweetest Mollie, heart as sweet as dripping honey, emotions as deep as a hole to the center of the earth, eyes as beautiful as 1000 Helens and company worth fighting 1000 wars over:

I will ignore you in games when you are not here because it breaks my heart when you are not here, and also because saying hi to people before they even show up is because I won't be half as much as a sweetheart to you two if I think you are scum. I also entered this game pretending to be Wis, which was a wonderful beautiful freeing spiritual experience, and I think "hi Mollie!" would have also ruined the ambiance of that a bit. What do you think of my push on Skitty?

okay you are forgiven.

also you are town.

I kind of answered about skitty in my recent post. if I hadn't been burned by bert in quicklynch I wld say that notty wld have to be meta burning if he were scum but then there is major person's cc and well i wldn't put it past notty to do that. also i don't remember borky rolling survivor so i am wondering where he got that from.

I will probs help you out with him if tammy agrees. I am pming tammy my phone number so she can text me while traveling and I can keep her updated about thoughts in the game. i am probs going to do most of the posting at least until she gets back so that sort of makes us pretty obvtown cos her scum game is much better than mine cos whenever I am scum i don't know what to say so i wind up saying nothing.

The most important point to me re: notty is that he says he thought this was a normal game instead of a bastard game despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. I don't think he assumes he is the only third party when UT's claim post was on the exact same page as his claim: it's a pretty big stretch for me to believe that he didn't read the 5 short RVS posts above him and then started reading all the posts below him somehow.

[The Will of Heaven]

I point out we have multiple suspects and have pushed reasons for wherefore multiple suspects art scum.
Thou say "O!, that's not a push its only a push when thou provide a case in thread!"
I point out its dumb as Hades to push us for only making a case on one person when the thread hath been open for 15 hours. Not one game day, 15 hours. Thou sure as Hades haven't managed to come up with a push on more than one person in triple the amount of time: wherefore should we be held to that standard?

you voted skitty and ut
these were your two big 'pushes'
especilaly in the time that i originally described

We voted Skitty.
We expressed mutual scumreads on Bulbazak.
Wisdom expressed uneasiness with UT.
I expressed uneasiness with GGG.
This is in the first 15 hours of the game, which is in the time you originally described.

[The Will of Heaven]

imo it doesn't really feel like town mollie but whatever, I'll leave her to nacho

if you want to get into another shit war that causes there to be a schism in town then by all means go ahead I'll just replace out.

@ om

you wldn't recognize a town post from me if it bit you in the ass

I can yell at Wis when he's being dumb but I think it's ok if he says he doesn't think you are town yet, especially if he doesn't vote you.

[The Will of Heaven]

And do you notice you're ignoring people for pushing both survivor claims because "survivor, policy lynch" while not scumhunting elsewhere? Have you noticed you still haven't addressed our case on Skitty for why they are scum and not survivor? Did you even know that existed?

who are you talking to here?

Droog.

[The Will of Heaven]

ne'er mind
thy only vote hath been on the survivor claim

mind i already went over wherefore thy 'ut' bits were not a push
bulbazak i'll give thou
dost not remember thou saying anything about ggg

I'm not saying the other reads are pushes, I'm saying they are suspicions. Us having those suspicions prove that your initial accusation of us only focusing on third party hunting is wrong. In addition, we are pushing Skitty because we found them lying about shit and not because we want to lynch third parties, which also discounts your point (our case on them also must be pretty good, considering you haven't even tried to address it yet). We additionally haven't pushed Major Minor at all, which is another point of us not focusing solely on third party claims.

[The Will of Heaven]

Reread and I'm wanting to lynch any of the 3rd-parties or zzzx. Bigger post coming later but can we please do a zzzx lynch?

Why? ZZZX actually seems sort of town to me. Also, what do you think of our posts saying that Skitty isn't what they claim to be?

[The Will of Heaven]

I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever describe Mollie's scum game as "needlessly verbose".

[The Will of Heaven]

Hey Wis, just curious

Say by some miracle I'm verily a survivor

who is scum on my wagon

If GGG is on thy wagon, him.

~Wis

Instead of looking elsewhere?
Art thou reading our posts at all?

where else did thou push nacho

Bulbazak, GGG. Would thou like me to quote those pushes?

what, this?
this is something thou'rt counting as something i needed t ohave remembered?

No?

[The Will of Heaven]

Wisdom's vote is a good one, but we really need to sort the UT thing out. UT canst not be alive at night if he's telling the truth.

experience says

anyone who pushes an independent lynch
to show how pro-town they art
is likely scum

so fos on thou or wisdom

Eh, I guess I'll claim. Shall not get any juicier than this!

Wisdom, I know bastard game means lies and stuff, but this isn't one of the things I would think canst be touched or altered by that.

I canst not think of something that makes survivor unlikely to exist, but okay

~Wis

How about, "another survivor with a different win condition"?

I canst not just win with anyone. I specifically canst

only win with mafia or town

. I highly doubt the moderator put in two survivors in the first place (though admittedly possible), but if he did, they would have the same win condition. And They specifically stated they canst win with ANYONE, which is very different from mafia/town only.

This generally just adds to the "Skitty is prob scum" point. Although, if thou win with only mafia or town, wherefore did not thou push to lynch UT?

~Wis

thou'rt pushing this instead of looking elsewhere
i think thou'rt scum

VOTE: shall of heaven

thou'rt getting awfully defensive about my divination of thy posts by post 90

You still haven't addressed my push on Skitty. Why?

[The Will of Heaven]

droog I actually agree with you that people who push third parties are more.likely scum. The problem is we never did that. We have been pushing skitty because we don't think he's third.party. There's a difference.

[The Will of Heaven]

I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever describe Mollie's scum game as "needlessly verbose".

she said it herself she doesn't know what to post when she's scum...

[The Will of Heaven]

yea but mollie
i spend literally every single game with him
yelling at wisdom and telling him he's shit at the game and he can't fucking read anyone for shit

yet he still gets on by just fine???

wat
Are you Om?

[The Will of Heaven]

Then what's that bullshit about yelling at me every single game? We only have like one completed game together

[The Will of Heaven]

PEDIT": mate i distinctly remember being super duper angry with you at some point in multiple games before my hiatus?

Other than that game where we didn't open our pms until day 3 or so I don't recall playing with you

[The Will of Heaven]

uh okay then

[The Will of Heaven]

adorkable looks town, but nothing not fakeable

dont like ooba much

I like ooba so far actually :/

[The Will of Heaven]

And Mollie should probably listen to my read there!

[The Will of Heaven]

I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever describe Mollie's scum game as "needlessly verbose".

she said it herself she doesn't know what to post when she's scum...

And so she doesn't post or she posts short things for the first couple of days and then promptly burns out. Needlessly verbose is not how you describe that.

[The Will of Heaven]

This line "Say by some miracle I'm actually a survivor" really seems to come from a non-lying about their role mentality. I think them saying "win with everyone" was a genuine mistake.

What do you think of ns saying that the only reason he posted "I win with everyone" was because he thought he signed up for a normal game and survivor was the one non normal element and he somehow didn't see UT's claim right above his. He said he didn't read, but it's hard to believe he wouldn't notice a few snippets from that post and read it out of curiosity, and it's much, much harder for me to believe NS doesn't know how the normal queue and the large theme queue works after being on the site for as long as he has.

- Regarding the not noticing a post a few posts above, I've done that this game - it happens
- The normal queue thing is sketchy - maybe

If Skitty drew a scum role PM and NS really hates it, why not just hand the reigns over to caledfwitch?

okay one time, maybe genuine mistake. But to completely miss UT's claim for the first twelve pages...? No.

Caledfwitch doesn't like scum anymore than ns does to my knowledge, and there is no way in hell a good portion of the playerlist would ever let ns get away with not posting, myself included.

[The Will of Heaven]

rly mollie? Was I likeable in polygamy, which you keep referring to when you want to argue I'm scum?

[The Will of Heaven]

you know im not the only one who thinks ur emotional manipulation tactics are horrible and against the spirit of the game

[The Will of Heaven]

It's generally pretty difficult to separate emotions and mafia, as demonstrated by you mixing the two as we speak. There isn't really anything wrong with that: using emotions to scumhunt/manipulate is as valid of an approach as the tactic of using rhetoric and logic to accomplish those same two things.

[The Will of Heaven]

It's generally pretty difficult to separate emotions and mafia, as demonstrated by you mixing the two as we speak. There isn't really anything wrong with that: using emotions to scumhunt/manipulate is as valid of an approach as the tactic of using rhetoric and logic to accomplish those same two things.

not when you consistently threaten replace outs to change the way others treat you in-game

Consistently? Where are you getting this view, exactly?

[The Will of Heaven]

Like, I don't know if you're realizing you're doing this or not, but when you say "you're an adult you can control your feelings" you're basically telling someone their feelings are illegitimate. I appreciate that Mollie (unlike others) replaces out of a game before she starts burning bridges with said players in the game, and I can't say it bothers me when she threatens those replace outs as scum because most of the time she's still legitimately bothered by what's happening. I don't think this happens on a consistent basis: in this game, Mollie/Wisdom have a long history of doing this sort of thing (I was the one who told her to continue playing and just let them sort their shit out with each other), and they are in the process of working things out right now. Going "oh, don't feel emotions, you're too old for that" doesn't really help things much.

[The Will of Heaven]

i agree, and he had absolutely no reason to claim at the point he did

Also it pings me how his reasoning for voting people is completely different to what it should be. Like, he was voting for UT not because he believed him, but because he thought UT was scum gambiting. Now he voted Skitty not because he thinks Skitty is scum, but because he's survivor.

pedit: @729

[The Will of Heaven]

or major

why major?

[The Will of Heaven]

Because Major is also a survivor claim. Silly question

Except we're not lynching skitty because he's survivor, so major claiming survivor is irrelevant

Also dont fucking answer for others

[The Will of Heaven]

Does Skitty being mafia as opposed to survivor change you vote?
No?
Then who gives a fuck? It's D1, we have nothing to go on and you're berating people for voting scum on the WRONG reason <_<

He's saying that we're scum because "scum are more likely to vote third party". We're pointing out that we're voting Skitty because he's bullshitting about his third party claim. I don't give a shit why people are voting Skitty, personally, although it's interesting to see why people are ending up on the wagon.

[The Will of Heaven]

Overall I think skitty or major is the right play today. Skitty has the higher probability of being a fake claim.

vote: skitty

Before you thought both of the survivors were legitimately claiming: when did that change?

[The Will of Heaven]

I don't see why we would lynch me prior to the phase before endgame (LYLO? MYLO?).

Don't bother wasting resources on me unless we get to the point where you guys are actually afraid that leaving me alive will hurt the town. But if we focus on ACTUALLY LYNCHING MAFIA MEMBERS instead of setup speculation, emotional childfighting, and survivor lynching... we won't ever NEED to lynch me.

I won't advocate your lynch/kill as long as you continue to be a boon to town. I think it's stupid to kill third party claims who can be a boon to town just because they aren't town.

[The Will of Heaven]

But please, can Will of Heaven / Southern Belles / mental somnic stop this stupid fighting/spamfest/crying? It's just bogging down the thread with stuff that honestly should be dealt with outside of the thread.

Where have we been spamfesting, exactly? There being emotions in what's happening currently doesn't mean that everything being posted is useless.

[The Will of Heaven]

don't like tiphaine

[The Will of Heaven]

So yeah, skitty and AA are scum together.

And you changed from skitty to aa because..?

[The Will of Heaven]

maybe but not before skitty is dead

[The Will of Heaven]

i dont mind any of those dying

also good point about pie, he should be really be obvtown by now yet he's not posting

[The Will of Heaven]

And if it's not obvious, I'm sort of suspicious of wischo as cult given their interactions with UT, but I'd need actual evidence of a cult for that since otherwise he seems non-scum. Pie is indifferent to that opinion.

what interactions are those exactly?

[The Will of Heaven]

And if it's not obvious, I'm sort of suspicious of wischo as cult given their interactions with UT, but I'd need actual evidence of a cult for that since otherwise he seems non-scum. Pie is indifferent to that opinion.

Did you fully read our interactions with UT? I pointed out that this was a bastard game and so there was probably going to be a day killing role that could take care of him. I said I would lynch him if for some reason there wasn't a day killing role that took care of him.

Waiting for an answer to a question before proceeding further....

You probably should just requote the question you want answered.

[The Will of Heaven]

I looked at the game. I reached out to you about the game. I expressed my confusion. You continue to talk in bullshit riddles.

[The Will of Heaven]

Like hello my name is Nacho and I'm willing to listen to you. I'm willing to go out on a retardedly long limb for you and meet you three fourths of the way on that retardedly long limb. I'm asking for a tiny tiny piece of information that there is absolutely no motivation, whether it be town or scum or survivor, not to provide it. You continuing not to provide that tiny piece of information tells me that you don't have it.

[The Will of Heaven]

Why is skitty town pie?

[The Will of Heaven]

Explain what you find town about his play?

[The Will of Heaven]

1. if NS's play this game makes any sense at all from a scum POV. you claim he wanted to claim survivor in order to coast, but if that was his goal, there are a fuckton of better things he could claim (e.g. hated claim seems to be the gold standard for scum coasting claims recently, see marquis in dangan ronpa 2). claiming survivor, in fact, would draw him even _more_ negative attention than not doing so, especially given he's bound to get PL'ed for it later. it doesn't actually make any sense that he would claim survivor as scum here, and you should really know this

It makes complete sense. The fact he didn't think of claiming something better doesn't change the fact the scum motivation is there.

2. what NS *actually* has to gain by supposedly lying about this being a normal game as scum here. hint: nothing, which is why insinuating he'd lie about it is fucking dumb

What does he have to gain as town?
It's just a shitty excuse.

I'm also not nacho.

[The Will of Heaven]

i don't think you're actually listening to me

where does this come from?

[The Will of Heaven]

and this logic is complete shit

no it isn't. Your own logic is the one that is backwards. ns did something with clear scum motivation without thinking about it much and you're now trying to argue that it was too scummy to be scum.

[The Will of Heaven]

I'm smarter than you give me credit for, Wis

Yep, that's why you "forgot" this is a bastard or "thought there is only one 3rd party role"

[The Will of Heaven]

what flaw is that?

[The Will of Heaven]

@pie
Scum motivation in claiming survivor = coasting.
Town motivation in claiming survivor = ?

Also mind explaining why you think he is town instead of just thinking he is honest about being survivor?

[The Will of Heaven]

Scum me wouldn't face the accusations repeatedly

Scum me would wait out prod timers, dodge and bitch about the push some, then back out of the thread

thats what you're doing, it's not like you've fought against your lynch

[The Will of Heaven]

like, your assumption that ns "didn't think about it much" relies on him basically being complete shit at this game, which (spoiler) he's not. this logic is why i think your push is fucking awful and why you should step back and actually think about it for a few seconds.

p-edit: @Wis

you're still not answering

[The Will of Heaven]

So counter it, pie, I'm waiting. Show me the town motivation. So far all you've said has been "it was too scummy to be scum".

[The Will of Heaven]

and yes, i did answer. you just aren't reading the game.

I've read everything, and you're still dodging.

[The Will of Heaven]

and i'll continue doing so until you're dead

your game references are meaningless to me

[The Will of Heaven]

I read, pie. You argued he could have claimed something else if he wanted to coast. That's not a valid point, it's just reaching for a reason to not scumread him.

You have yet to explain why you think he is town and not survivor.

[The Will of Heaven]

inb4 pie is unlyncher of skitty btw

[The Will of Heaven]

so either accept ns isn't getting lynched, or shut up

like, you have no reason not to want his lynch. Even if you disagree with me that he is scum, this means you believe him that he's survivor. Which means he still needs to die. Fighting against his lynch makes no sense.

[The Will of Heaven]

Yes because a role that's dependent on defending a slot that you are adamant is scum seems legit

Say I believe you are survivor.

Explain to me why pie is defending you when he should still want you dead if he is town.

[The Will of Heaven]

I can keep sarcastically discrediting you all day Wis

You going to play ball or keep tunneling?

what do you think, will i care about you discrediting me or not?