We The Purple II Game Over

[Espsyoncheage]

Metal Sonic

, I disagree with policy lynches of any kind. They ruin the game for people. How do we expect one to improve if we exclude them from the game, instead of ranting at him go tell him how he could improve and encourage him. Only then will we see change.

Oversoul opposing the PL could be scum going for town credit but I'll reward her with a very light town read for now. It's seems rather genuine.

Ricastle, if we all hydrate ourselves nobody will ever get hydrated. Your reasoning is flawed and you should rethink that tell. However I agree it's a useful start for the time being.

Hydrate: Espsyoneage

Seeing how we are all VT's wouldn't it make sense to all flavour claim? Just a thought.

Lol, even the mod got our name wrong.

Sonic Boom

, stop posting so crumpets much. I want to be able to not catch up early-game and wake up not to find 10+ pages.
Also, was post 71 Metal Sonic or Titus?

Seiko x Noami

, you read list looks rather faked in post 120. Care to explain your reads? Focus on the Metal Scum and Ricastle town though.

For some reasons my guts saying Hom is town, I'll put him there then for now then.

Angry BRO's

is post 156 AP or BRO?
Lol, I'm assuming 166 is BRO.

NAA is town by the way, I find myself agreeing and recognising his thoughts.

231 Metal Sonic, I know you're pissed we won but that "everyone disagrees" is false. There are those that disagree, however others don't care or are fine with it. Shall I start naming the actual players?
Get over it and stop whining and bitching about our win.

Oh, I'm also more confident in my oversoul town read by the way.

So randomidget votes Sonic then suggest we hydrate them. Sorry.
VOTE: Randomidget

Singer, why?

And I'm caught up.

~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Mod, I just voted for hydration and you've split the wagon on us into two seperate vote count sections. One of which spelled incorrectly and the second correctely.

Hydrate: Espsyoncheage

I'm up for flavour claiming, need to talk with my other heads though first.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

ricastle town, AFB town, oversoul maybe town, sonic boom scum, GIF maybe scum

it's multiball and >95% of posts are easily fucking faked.

These posts don't seem like they belong together.

also, I would like to make a formal request that we attempt to keep the rate of posting down this game

the last thing I want to see in this game is a 200 fucking page day 1; and no, I don't really care if you think more posts will make it easier to sort people. this is more so the case when it's multiball and >95% of posts are easily fucking faked.

Amen

VOTE: Sonic Boom

This is a wagon for justice and if there is anything in the game that needs Tk be lynched for overall health it is this
Not dealing with another Titus scum in Signs and Void
Not even going to try

Please don't

drink

play league of legends

policy lynch

-C

don't start on league of legends fam

How did you know my life was basically alcohol LoL and Mafia? d:

I do two of these things.
VOTE: sonic boom

hydrate: singersigner

PEdit: oversoul all you need to know is that I'm always town. Every. Single. Time. Apart from once. Which coincidentally was a multiball.

Also is seoki x Naomi a corpse play reference?
PEdit:

We could hydrate sonic

Completely contradictory posts and useless content, why did nobody else spot this?
Maybe Sonic Boom drowned it in the sea of posts?

[Espsyoncheage]

This is Bone, haven't read a thing yet beyond Page 2, BUT I can already tell...

Sonic Boom Jun 12, 11:23am Jun 12, 02:47pm 0 days 0 hours

89

For the love of God Titus if you are town (Sonic too) the most pro-town thing you can do is STAHP. You shouldn't have more posts than the rest of the playerlist combined. (yes I know you don't YET but you are trending in that direction and it is BAD)

Thank you for reading this public service announcement, please resume your normal endeavors.

[Espsyoncheage]

Everyone who has posted since 287 better have a good fucking reason why they are not flavourclaiming

Vote: Ricastle

That's why?

-Bone

[Espsyoncheage]

Started reading.

Who wants a pigeon?

(I'll sign my posts but I don't think it's necessary for this particular one.)

[Espsyoncheage]

(Sure)

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm policy lynching TheWayItEnds for having a continued history of ruining games for town, being unrepentant when he purposefully makes game-risking throws, and generally a dick.

VOTE: TheWayItEnds

Need we do this?

What have I done
A game with Wisdom, Titus, and Metal Sonic
This game is going to be like 600 pages long

Don't you want to break the record on Wiki? ^_^

Question is: If I had PMed you privately before the game started to WOTC TWIE, would you have supported it?

If one keepeth talking about something blatantly irrelevant never helpeth in finding scum.
I think I read it in a Yi Jing book.

Oh, I have some townreads.

Namely?

Given the lack of push to get wagons going, I have a scumread on TWIE.

Besides policy?

Also, we're a vt. I know some of you hate early claims but welp.

Eeiiaao?

I do think there's some merit to hydrating middle/nulls as it could force scum to make different night kill,choices than they otherwise would, and there's not a huge danger to giving roles to scum as its multiball and could encourage crosskills more than would otherwise be in play.

But giving it to people, like me, who tend to die early might just be a big waste.

................................... (I remember using similar phrases in RL mafia. As scum.)

in all seriousness, Titus's opening was pretty awful

If I used the word "awful", that would only increase the drama and the nullcontent part.
I'd use the phrase "not that townish" instead.

look, we even broke rvs! all thanks to who?

Ya we traded RVS for something worse. You howling about TWIE being literally hitler and everyone else not giving a shit while scum just throws peanuts at you no doubt.

Dat.

________

So far, surprisingly little useful content, even compared to my standards.
Gaining reads. Consulting heads. Page 8 or what.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Breakfast boy is scum.

And why?

I can confirm that he did try to wotc him and does believe his argument as he asked me if I'd support it.
This argument won't get us anywhere though and I much prefer it when people troll and goof off at the beginning of the game than this!

Cute little nymph.

Seiko × Naomi, 190 gave town-vibes.

TWIE, your posting is starting to ring my scumdar because it looks like Survivor.

The smell of a Regardless of Card.

it almost seems as if you are trying to discourage townreads or townblocs from forming.

What town block?
Either it's pigeon poop or it's confirmed that my star sign is not Shining Light Bulb.

Breaking RVS is an achievement. It has advanced the game.
Your first clause is false.

Advancing it with a negative vector doesn't count.

"negative vector" is all subjective.
Just like how Y&B won.
Subjectively, nobody agreed.
But objectively, they got the prize. Nobody liked it, but it did the job.
Same thing.

What the lithium fork does Team Mafia has to do with this game?
By the way, after I read it again, I noticed that you've just contradicted yourself...

Oversoul, 247, we'll think about it. What sort of forming townblock can you see?

Sonic, who is scum apart from TWIE?

I wonder why noone had asked this before this post.

Everyone who has posted since 287 better have a good fucking reason why they are not flavourclaiming

We all need to agree. That's all.

And why is that? You rolled a tridra?

I'm not going to tell you.
But, I don't actually disagree, I mostly don't care.

Ick?

Well
This might be an easy game.
Singer is town. Titus/sonic hydra is town.

Explain, please!

(I'll sign my posts but I don't think it's necessary for this particular one.)

mastin?

Almost. ^_^

No surprise that I showed my thoughts to the other heads first.

[Espsyoncheage]

Mod, I just voted for hydration and you've split the wagon on us into two seperate vote count sections. One of which spelled incorrectly and the second correctely.

Hydrate: Espsyoncheage

I'm up for flavour claiming, need to talk with my other heads though first.
~wgeurts

Oh my gods, so weird. I'd read this earlier on my way out the door, and I read it as "need to talk with my scumteam thought first" and my entire drive I was trying to figure out if the reference to the scum team was a joke based on people saying their tridra was mod confirmed scum or if it was a legit scumslip ala that guy who posted that this was the second time he'd drawn scum in response to someone asking if he had been scum yet.

Now I don't know if I should get my head examined or take that as me being omniscient and my misread of the words was a sign from the mafia gods that they are scum. (Is it considered cheating if the mafia gods speak to me and tell me who scum is if that's the case then?)

I'll try to actually read tonight, but that might not happen until tomorrow night when I get back home.

Also Frat Bros quoted the post in 290 and changed it to that very wording.

[Espsyoncheage]

If it makes you feel better I might have dropped a scumteam joke if I made a post like that.

[Espsyoncheage]

Cheet, oversoul is town as hell what are you doing?
Anyway, await more soon.
-wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

The ugly head returns to read a couple of pages.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh la well, p2 = Psyche.
I remember reading these null-posts a lot, after I replaced in his slot.
Unless someone tells me that posts from like this are normal from a town-him, I consider him scum. Period. ISO White Flag-Psycho. Iso p2 here. Can you see? Can you all see?

OK

To @everyone:
What do you think of the situation where Rune is scumreading both Axe and Homunculi, Axe is scumreading both Rune and Homunculi, and Homunculi is only FoSing Axe but Hydrating Rune?

First 5 to answer get chili dogs. Top answer gets scumpoints.

Yes, yes, I can see you've just posted it again. I'll checking all of them on these couple of pages.
I'm not allowed to eat chili, and I don't eat meat. What else do you have? ^_^

Aneneochange - considering your scum team just killed me on night two in white flag, even if you don't have any other experience with me, you shouldn't be surprised I expect to die early anyway so hydrating us is not a good idea.

We've met before. And as far as I can remember, you were an early kill... so... might be right?

Oh then the you guys made a hydra thing makes sense now.
Hmmm...you might actually be town as you sound way different than white flag already, but need to think, and actually read.

I feel the opposite. Let's talk. Why? Different tone? What do you mean by that?

NotAnAxeHole's 554. As for the question from Sonic, my answer is: he seems to be genuine. Would that question make sense if we took out Axe from the equation? Likely.

To be extremely clear, axe is by far the best lynch today. Not in favour of any other d1 lynch at the moment.

Rune, I'm not going fishing for your reasons. You want Axe lynched, make a case.

That's fair, and I will when I need to.

Uh?
You know, there's a pigeon-shaped alien space vessel heading to Earth. I'm not explaining why I know this, I'll only tell more about it when I need to.

Sonic, 565 and nearby. Are you (Titus?) just self-meta yourself so as to explain how town you are?

Titus answer my question about what happens when I flip and you're wrong.

I might not be a genius but I've seen this "when I flip" thingy for scums a couple of times...

[Espsyoncheage]

^^
–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

tl/dr:
Town: {SeikoxNaomi, Sonic Boom, Homiletic Homunculi}
Nulltown: {Rune, Oversoul, singersigner}
Null: {randomidget}
Nullscum: {Angry Frat Bros, Ricastle, zzzx, TheWayItEnds, NotAnAxeHole, MarioManiac4, p2}
Scum: {Cait Sith, Espyoncheage}

Wait-oh.
Sonic is town, but admitting not being able to read Titus?
Singer is nulltown, however

"Uh. I wanna say town but I feel like that's more bias from TeamMafia than it is an actual townread. The one thing that gives me townvibes here are her questions to the mod, which I feel could have been done in private if she was scum. But I don't know how much water this holds."

? Asking questions in public is a thing that many do as scum.
TWIE is null-scum because of OMGUS-ing Sonic... whereas Sonic is on the townlist.
N'Axe is null-scum because of focus-ing on Rune, even if you don't know him and it could be a town-behavior too?
Hadn't the Rune-alt topic been discussed by that post?
Your read on us... you didn't like anything but you mentioned only one of the heads. Is that enough for calling us a strong read in a large?
Cat Sídhe... yet again, enough for a scumread, but

"I don't know what Mala has posted (I assume just the vague singer/Titus townreads), but I don't see anything town there either."

You contradicted your long post in your TL;DR

Cat Sídhe, 603, which head was that?

Ricastle, 611 Those reads gave me a MissMarple-positive on town. I remember scumreading someone similar and I was wrong.
UNVOTE:

anen, go back and discuss with your partners about the p2 read, then give us a full final verdict. I'm sheeping you guys on that one.

I've already asked my other heads, so far T-Bone has agreed.

My answer to if you flip town is the same as everyone else if they flipped town. Look at the NKs, get a VCA driven suspect (although weak), compare to behavior, push someone.
That's the same procedure if you are scum though. So basically, only the data points change.

Eeii.
I've seen this kind of town-Titus before. I'm much less confident about my scumread on their slot than I used to be before.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

I think you line of questioning is worth pursuing Sonic. One is not like the other in your threesome, and that is Axe. He's the one most afraid to commit to a read there. He doesn't strike me as a savvy enough player to realize this, and as scum would want to keep his options open at this stage of the game.

We're checking up on psyche, I'm deferring my opinion to Anen and wgurts there, meta isn't my thing, and he hasn't posted enough for me to say one way or another.

Wisdom's reads are extremely cookie-cutter and fake, so there's that.

I pressed and voted Ricastle about the flavor thing because he seemed way too excited to show off his flavorclaim, and that's an attitude I would expect from scum, as well as his gambit where he voted another player for 'not caring' about flavorclaiming, that to me reeks of scum trying to "prove" his townieness by using his fakeclaim against another player.

Also if you promise to be less spam-posty (like you have been) you can have our vote for TWIE anytime

(and obviously Anen and I are posting at the same time, so redundancy is redundant)

[Espsyoncheage]

For all their talk about advancing the gamestate, Seiko has made very little effort to do so themselves. Most of their time has been spent arguing with Sonic about holding up the game which in turn was...holding up the game...subsequently, the only scumhunting they've actually done so far is a weak and forgettable push on Oversoul. They also quickly abandoned the conversation with me about the game in general. This all leads me to believe that their crowing about the gamestate is just a ploy to look useful. I also hated their responses to Sonic's initial push on them, looking back. It reads very much like "these are the wrong reasons to catch me".

I highlighted this in our hydra PT, so I'm just gonna put it here too, because I like this a lot.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not sure what he's referring to as " lack of commitment ". The only relevant thing I can think of is me saying rune is either scum or playing dumb town. Either is equally likely because I wouldn't put it past him to be trying to prove a point as town as opposed to actually playing the game. Either is detrimental to town.

I'm slightly more confident now on my HH read I guess, but I don't see a lynch going his way barring a major change in ideas, there are too many people with town reads on him. Voting that way would be a waste.

I did answer the singer thing :-/

Yes you pretty much nailed it on the head, but nice awareness of what you're doing.

That's the thing! Why does flavor matter?? From what I can tell, it's just generic "hey I hydra'd with this person and they're pretty cool I guess."

This is why I had an issue with Ricastle trying to bully people into flavor claiming. I don't even see how it's hydration-related, either, but in case it is, I'd rather not let scum more familiar with the flavor go off speculating.

Again hence my comment of scumRicastle wanting to show off his knowledge of the flavor.

[Espsyoncheage]

Tammy, if 603 was you, then it's a null. (It would be very weird from the Malakitty-head, which I know much better.)

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Wonderful contribution...

Sonic, the offer to wagon TWIE still good?

[Espsyoncheage]

For the record, it's blatantly apparent TWIE is playing similar to how he played in survivor, which not only says he's scum but also that he has a team full of people he expects won't be able to last long, and has given up before the game has even gotten started. that being said,

I'm not really jonesing to lynch lurker pondscum on day 1.

I'd rather lynch spammy scum that fill the thread with bullshit (Hint: If you two say one more time you weren't giving excuses I will go in your iso and quote every single excuse).

I don't like twie play at all.

Not a lynch candidate for today imo

but he is a second tier scum read right now.

HOW DOES THIS EVEN MAKE SENSE.

If you find scum, you find scum. You don't let them rally overnight with the rest of their team. Geezus fuck, guys. How do you reconcile that kind of scum hunting when you can't even use associative tells until a flip??

10/10 would read again.

Hydrate: Singer

Incidentally best option...maybe only option.

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: Sonic Boom

Hydrate: Ricastle

I will take anyone hydrating someone other than themselves at this point as scumpartners

Mod, pretty sure I've confirmed btw

Hey, Ricastle, I'll strike you a deal.

Shift your vote onto TWIE and I'll put the Hydrate on you, and tell Titus not to remove it. For as long as your vote stays there.

Who posted this, Metal Sonic or Titus?
Answer me or I'm voting you.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

You were active like an hour ago, why can't you answer this?
I've got a whole line of thought that is entirely based of who posted this, however I need to confirm who posted it as it wasn't signed.

[Espsyoncheage]

Metal Sonic, in the Team Mafia Vanilla Nightless you said you don't make deals as the risks aren't worth it. Yet in the post I quoted earlier (I'll admit my brain farted and I should have seen what you pointed out) you have gone ahead and made a very risky deal... for town.
Let's say you're town, you would have figured out that giving your hydrate away to a random player is very dangerous. However I seriously doubt it was random. You and Titus both jumped to hydrate Ricastle the second he played his part. This to me indicates there has been discussion between you two about this deal. I don't think town Titus/MS would make this deal, exactly for the above reason. As there's no way they can know for sure that Ricastle's town, and giving the PR to scum could be devastating. No, with the above I seriously doubt this deal was made with a town mindset, which brings us to the thoughts behind why you would make this deal as scum.

If Ricastle isn't part of your faction then it's still a risky gamble. The TWIE lynch support however would benefit you, still I doubt this is the case.
I suspect Ricastle and SB are scum together. Ricastle stated that he would scum read all that don't hydrate themselves, yet when he's offered this deal (which is really not town motivated) he poses no questions. If he were town he should have been more cautious about giving his vote to a random player, yet he showed none of this.
However if Ricastle was scum with SB, this little scum theatre would distance them, give Ricastle a "valid" reason to hop onto an early possible wagon and it allows SB to hydrate his scum partner with "valid" reasons. Further more they even went ahead to set the deal up in such a way that they can abandon the TWIE wagon but SB can continue to hydrate Ricastle without looking suspicous.

Metal Sonic is a player that loves little gambits like this, titus his partner also is a clever player. So I can see them planning this and executing it (it certainly wasn't a spontaneous "aaaarg, I need this guy lynched"). It went way to smoothly with too little questions posed between the two parties. Metal Sonic doesn't like deals because of risks, however this may not actually have been a deal at all.

That's all, need to discuss with my other heads.

Not voting either yet, however I want this possible associative to be here for if one of them flips scum this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

my original post was a scumclaim

FTFY

[Espsyoncheage]

The hydrating thing was a stupid gambit designed to look like you were interested in finding scum, but had no real world applications.

The real scummy thing you did though was try to trump around your flavorclaim and get everyone else to claim, because you wanted to show off the fact that your fakeclaim has appropriate flavor.

Your two moves were NOT really about finding scum (because yes you can scumhunt in multiball) you two moves were about getting towncred. That was the primary motivation and why you are scum. This stupid thing with Notty is just more of the same. Now you are pandering to players you think will give you townreads if you agree with them. All I see from your play is pandering for town-points, and if you were town you wouldn't need to do so.

Vote: Ricastle

Putting that back.

[Espsyoncheage]

The thing is though scum can realistically scumhunt, so there's no need for that. It's a default scum instinct to convince others that you're town, rather than just being town and letting it shine through. When some players make a comment "so and so will show if they are town or not" this is more or less what they are referring to.

I don't pretend to know Ricastle's experience, but to me it looks like he is pandering for townpoints, and I get a sense of nervousness about it.

[Espsyoncheage]

RUNE, if he's scum he can give another scum partner a PR. Giving the hydration to scum means we get 2 scum PR's!
Your logic makes no sense.
(Quote this for me T-Bone)

Mine

[Espsyoncheage]

T Bone,

do you agree with wgeurt's assessment that me hydrating Ricastle was a "risky move"?

No. Hence he didn't do anything else but voice his suspicions.

[Espsyoncheage]

Vote: Ricastle

Putting that back.

Mod, you missed this. Ta.

[Espsyoncheage]

Ricastle is quite obviously scum.
Ric, why would you join a wagon that consisted of your number 2 scum read and sonic boom (Your ex scum read that went from town, to scum to town when he was at risk of getting lynched (must I mention my SB/Ric idea?))?
I also just realised that you broke SB's deal, yet neither of you made a notice of it.

The Seiko wagon is pure shit.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

But seriously,
Metal Sonic plans to make a deal with Ricastle with Titus, one that is risky as town. Ricastle then sells his vote, also risky if he were town. However they set the deal up in a way they can abandon it yet still hydrate ricastle without looking odd (while ricsatle was hording hydrates). Then Ric abandons the deal and SB makes no mention of it. He also pushes low hanging fruit: rune.
Out of the blue Ric then votes SB (distancing) until the wagon continues to grow where he simply quits and joins the seiko wagon (his reasoning for SB being town again were "I don't like the wagon"). To make matters worse his "top scum read" is on the seiko wagon along with metal sonic. Why as town would you join a wagon composed of your scum reads?
No, it looks like a counter-wagon.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Titus may have switched it but that really says nothing, you also broke your end of the deal without a care in the world.
It's dodgy as crumpets.

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh, you changed the hydrate

after

I pointed out it was suspicious.
So, lel.
Next fake defence please.

[Espsyoncheage]

I find myself agreeing with Bacon and Egg.
They can be town.

[Espsyoncheage]

Metal Sonic, in the Team Mafia Vanilla Nightless you said you don't make deals as the risks aren't worth it. Yet in the post I quoted earlier (I'll admit my brain farted and I should have seen what you pointed out) you have gone ahead and made a very risky deal... for town.
Let's say you're town, you would have figured out that giving your hydrate away to a random player is very dangerous. However I seriously doubt it was random. You and Titus both jumped to hydrate Ricastle the second he played his part. This to me indicates there has been discussion between you two about this deal. I don't think town Titus/MS would make this deal, exactly for the above reason. As there's no way they can know for sure that Ricastle's town, and giving the PR to scum could be devastating. No, with the above I seriously doubt this deal was made with a town mindset, which brings us to the thoughts behind why you would make this deal as scum.

If Ricastle isn't part of your faction then it's still a risky gamble. The TWIE lynch support however would benefit you, still I doubt this is the case.
I suspect Ricastle and SB are scum together. Ricastle stated that he would scum read all that don't hydrate themselves, yet when he's offered this deal (which is really not town motivated) he poses no questions. If he were town he should have been more cautious about giving his vote to a random player, yet he showed none of this.
However if Ricastle was scum with SB, this little scum theatre would distance them, give Ricastle a "valid" reason to hop onto an early possible wagon and it allows SB to hydrate his scum partner with "valid" reasons. Further more they even went ahead to set the deal up in such a way that they can abandon the TWIE wagon but SB can continue to hydrate Ricastle without looking suspicous.

Metal Sonic is a player that loves little gambits like this, titus his partner also is a clever player. So I can see them planning this and executing it (it certainly wasn't a spontaneous "aaaarg, I need this guy lynched"). It went way to smoothly with too little questions posed between the two parties. Metal Sonic doesn't like deals because of risks, however this may not actually have been a deal at all.

That's all, need to discuss with my other heads.

Not voting either yet, however I want this possible associative to be here for if one of them flips scum this game.

My mistake, the ISO thing fucked up

Also damn phantom quote

[Espsyoncheage]

@Cait Sith, I feel that sometimes people forget my posts too. Check outpost 60.

Singer's obvtown, damn it. Now that means hydrating her won't work.

Unhydrate

~Titus

Must mention you also unhydrated though.
~wgeurts

[Espsyoncheage]

Nvm.
Why are all my posts in ISO in reverse order?

[Espsyoncheage]

Hydrate: Singer

Vote: Ricastle

Mara-Mod.....

Vote: Ricastle

Hydrate: SingerSinger

...

(Sorry I keep seeing a new vote count without these changes that we made days ago...)

[Espsyoncheage]

Two-player-wagons at the last VC?
Weird.

Checking this and my heads too.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Ricastle-mix.
87 (going for an easy polichy?)
255 (...I simply don't get the point of that gambit)
287 (flavor-claim attempt. Easy to draw away the focus and might be an easy-frame on those who refuse to do so?)
433 (jumping on the Sonic-wagon which was the biggest at that time)
611 (wishy-washy reads, okay, you may refute me, but admitting not focusing on the game and asking for hydration at the same time?!)
790 (telling that four players are caught. Like wow.)
816 (jumping on the freshly-gained-momentum Seiko-wagon)
1192 (excuses, excuses)
1345 (where did that come from?)
1480 (more excuses, excuses)

Sure, we have quite a few things we disagree about. But, having read the other heads' thoughts and checked his ISO I think our vote is at a good place.

[Espsyoncheage]

^^
–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

At this point I just want to start lynching out of spite, Wisdom and TWIE are poisoning the game with this nonsense...

[Espsyoncheage]

Unvote Vote: TheWayItEnds

[Espsyoncheage]

Unvote Vote: Bacon and Eggs

At this point, can't stand Wisdom, two games in a row I've had to deal with him. He's a terrible poster and he's not going to change unless he starts getting lynched for it. Maybe we should have followed AP and Bro out? I dunno, but I know I'm not the only one who doesn't enjoy playing with him. I feel sorry if a scumteam got saddled with him.

[Espsyoncheage]

This is why we should lynch Wisdom. Sonics, he's not ever going to stop this until we do.

[Espsyoncheage]

Being an unrelenting prick who is only determined to stroke his own ego and make the game as unfun for as many people as possible. You don't learn. You did the same thing in Mod Error and you won't learn until you start getting lynched for it. Every fucking post is "hi I'm wisdom and I am a mafia God and you are stupid for not laying down at my feet so I will spam post and stroke my ego in every post anyway". That is why you are a terrible player and you won't stop being a terrible player until you can change your attitude and approach to this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

All you can do is go "look guys how right I am in these random instances". Being right in some random instances has no bearing on this game. Any perceived "skill" you may have is bullshit at best and shit you need to keep to yourself. You want to look in your bathroom mirror and tell yourself that you are the best to ever play mafia? Fine, you do that. Don't come in here and shove that garbage down our throats. You are only as good as mafia as the way you treat your fellow players. And you just talk down to everyone in every post and call them stupid in every post, and that's why you either need to change or get lynched.

We asked Titus and Sonic to stop being spam posty. What did they do? They stopped being spam posty and let everyone else play the game too. Why? Because they recognize that being courteous to their fellow players was worth more than shoving themselves down our throats. That is the hallmark of a good player, recognizing the rest of the player deserves you to be respectful to them regardless of alignment or anything else. That's it. All I'm asking you to do is start respecting the rest of the player list. But in my experience with you, you are incapable of doing so.

[Espsyoncheage]

Because causing AP and BRO to want to replace out is the hallmark of being a respectful player. Because any number of posts I can quote from this game, from the last game we played, will show me otherwise. I know enough from your posts that you have no respect for the players in this game, and probably on this site. So instead of being all"you don't know me", why don't you show me I am wrong and start playing with a little bit of respect? I'm not going to nitpick with you about it. This is what is happening in this game. If you want to refuse to see it that's your prerogative. I was hoping that maybe you could take just a little bit of self reflection here for a moment. When multiple players have taken issue with the way you speak, then maybe you do have a problem you should examine.

Like I could be sitting here rubbing it in that you are riding my coattails on Ricastle cause I caught him first, but I'm not, because I don't care to. I could go back and forth with you all night, bring up specific posts, and all the jazz, but I won't. But I'm not going to take you seriously until you can start playing this game with some respect. That's it, that's all I'm asking. I don't mean to imply that you are bad at mafia or a terrible person, I mean to imply that the approach you take to the game is awful and disrespectful.

[Espsyoncheage]

For real I'd like to unpause the game and get back to it, I just wanted you to know how I honestly feel about you, because I realize naked voting you and going "die Wis die" isn't productive or respectful on my part, and I apologize for that.

[Espsyoncheage]

Don't worry Oversoul! You, or anyone else who wants a protown vote can vote for Wisdom!

Read it all in my new book "Wisdom: And Why You Should Vote For Him" - by T-Bone..with a forward by AP and BRO. The New York Times have called it "an emotional piece...with so much comment sense advise!"

Pick it up at your local mafiascum retailer!

[Espsyoncheage]

Esp, wondering if you can clarify updated thoughts about your earlier theory of SB/Ricastle? Your slot's discussion has been centered on Wisdom ever since that period of postings.

your hydra dissonance I think lead to a quick change to TWIE vote, then now Wisdom (?), so I'm puzzled

SNIP

I don't think there is as much hydra dissonance as you think. We had a couple of periods where Wgurts and I were posting at the same time..and then Anen and I were posting at the same time which was weird. The SB/Ricaslte thing is an opinion that only wgurts has, Anen and I disagree. I go so far as to call them my strongest townread. Both of them have gotten out of their own way to try and help the game out, and not only do I appreciate them doing that, I think it comes from a very pro-town place. Not to get too off-topic, but I have been in several games and modded one of Titus' lately and I've really seen a positive transformation in how she approaches the game. It'll take a lot for me to change this one. We all do think Riscastle is scum for reasons early on in the game, and I know they have gotten lost but the reasons we scumread him has still happened.

The TWIE and Wisdom votes however all come from me and are not about my reads on them, the TWIE vote was about sheeping Sonic's policy lynch because TWIE has steadfast refused to play the game and I get why Sonic wanted it in the first place. The Wisdom vote as has been explained is because he's a disrespectful player and that doesn't belong in mafia. So that's where those two votes have come from.

[Espsyoncheage]

You've really missed me, haven't you?

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Lol, Hi, Bert!
Are you the same Bert I know? Do you remember me?

"He promised reads, he gave nothing" - Like 4 or 5 other people in this game. Are they all scum? The game is moving fast, it's understandable some people are not as caught up as they would want, it's not something to lynch people over.

Bhhhhhhhhhhh.
I'm pretty sure there were quite a couple of scumreads on players because of not being up-to-date enough. Haven't you done something similar?

Answer why TWIE is town, not why my case sucks.

Isn't it played in the opposite way? We should show why a certain player is scum.

The main reason Generic is town is because of his lack of knowledge that this is multiball, demostrated here:

So easy to fake that, so easy...

Esp, wondering if you can clarify updated thoughts about your earlier theory of SB/Ricastle? Your slot's discussion has been centered on Wisdom ever since that period of postings.

I don't think so. Or at least, that has never been true for this head. I mean, never "centered". I've had other reads too.

maybe kat should take my slot

Can anyone tell me why we should townread him at all?

Additional reads are posted in our Hydra Thread for further consideration.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

You're both full of excuses and it's fucking tiring. If you are town, play like fucking town.

~Wis

LOLOLOLOL thank you for making my day.

[Espsyoncheage]

At the very least you're playing a pro-scum game.

[Espsyoncheage]

Because your gameplay is making probably most of the players either want to argue with you, or wait until you stop posting for good (or a similar Wisdom is gone outcome). When you were asked to stop being a dick your response was "I'm not the problem everyone else is the problem".

So yeah, keep up the good work and earn that scum MVP.

[Espsyoncheage]

Like, how are you surprised at this point that people are frustrated with your play not because of their alignment, but because of the way you play? How are you surprised by this?

[Espsyoncheage]

And I can quote any number of posts, but really you're just gonna say "no I'm not" so what's the point? It's not just me who has issues with how you are approaching this game. It was AP and Bro, it's my hydra, it's Sonic and Titus, it's probably other players who are demoralized by how much posting you do, and how much talking down to people you do to get your way. I'm not asking you to replace out, I'm asking you to play with some self-awareness and get out of your own way for a bit. Try to work with the playerlist instead of just complaining how you are doing everything and everyone else is doing nothing. Instead of going "I'm not the problem everyone else is".

Well I'm sorry no one has tried lynching you as a solution to your behavior before, but I'm hardly the first player to ever take issue with the way you post. Like, that's it. I'm not upset that you are scumreading my slot, I'm mildly annoyed by your massive post count but I'll get over it, but I am fatigued of you not being able to recognize that people aren't going to agree with you and no amount of yelling or swearing is going to change that.

[Espsyoncheage]

Bottom line, if you can tone it down, I'll go back to voting Ricastle.

[Espsyoncheage]

We could just lynch him too. I'm pretty okay with that. At least Wisdom tries...

[Espsyoncheage]

he is pissing me off.

that's not a reason to lynch someone.

~Wis

Seems like an excellent reason.

[Espsyoncheage]

Yeah no problem Titus.

Unvote Vote: TWIE

[Espsyoncheage]

Eh we'll just do what we want ZZZX and Wisdom will either get on board or not. Maybe he'll let his hydra partner play instead? I dunno.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'd actually like to lynch Ricastle. But I'll tolerate scum players over disruptive players any day.

[Espsyoncheage]

Shrug. It's enjoyable to play with Ricastle. I'd rather play with players I enjoy more than anything else. That's why we made this hydra, that's why we picked this game. If you're not having fun what's the point?

[Espsyoncheage]

Shrug. It's enjoyable to play with Ricastle. I'd rather play with players I enjoy more than anything else. That's why we made this hydra, that's why we picked this game. If you're not having fun what's the point?

that makes zero sense and you know it. You don't keep scum alive because they're enjoyable.

You don't, but I do. I'll do it every time. I'm not going to have this argument with you. How are you feeling right now in the face of you telling people policy lynches is bad and we go "nuh uh"? Because it's how we feel when we tell you that the way you play is bad.

I don't really think TWIE is town, and he's a liability, so he might as well get lynched. If he's town and doesn't want to play he might as well be scum. No I'm not arguing this point with you either, that is a personal preference.

[Espsyoncheage]

Please don't play the victim. I actually agree with some of what you said and your reads...I don't agree with your approach and it makes me want to oppose you out of spite. I agree with them on TWIE though. Just as I agree with you on Ricastle and Seiko, and your comment about shallow reads. I'd be open to entertaining you though if you can keep the tone down (for the most part you've been doing it the past few hours).

[Espsyoncheage]

Every time I see you try to call out the entire scumteams I cringe. Dat ego.

[Espsyoncheage]

Awww Singer I'll be on your team.

[Espsyoncheage]

I answered your questions before Bert, I dunno if you saw that and if that changes anything.

Also you've been incorrectly attributing things to Anen when I (T-Bone) have been doing them.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't get why Esp wouldn't put their vote back on Ricastle after saying their heads agree on him as scum, and they tried to justify a policy lynch on Wisdom over a collective scummy scum scumread. It makes me really suspicious, Anen! Do you hear that? The voting TWIE out of spite for Wisdom part makes me a very unhappy man. And yes I remember you! you are ingrained in my memory whether you like it or not, stuck in the back of my long unfired synaptic pathways <3

Just so you aren't confused, Anen hasn't been moving the vote around or pushing policy lynches, that has been all me.

[Espsyoncheage]

SNIP

Sorry, I tend to only start signing if my hydra partners are posting at the same time as me. Thought it was obvious who has been posting.

-BONE

Also, it's about time this was fully proposed.

Who is in favour of a Mario compromise wagon?

Getting to you now, Cheet.

I think TWIE IS the compromise wagon?

[Espsyoncheage]

AP! Can I count on you for when we need to lynch Wisdom? (I mean we need to lynch him now but I digress)

[Espsyoncheage]

Silly AP, you were supposed to post that in our neighborhood QT!

[Espsyoncheage]

Okay real talk there is no way Wisdom gets nightkilled because he is the single biggest pro-scum voice in the thread. Unless one scumteam legitimately thinks he's on the other team, we're only getting rid of his pro-scum approach if we lynch him, otherwise we got to deal with it/ignore it.

390 posts of badposting and arguing with the playerlist? I PRAY for the day I draw scum opposite Wistown in a game.

[Espsyoncheage]

I find ZZZX to just be lazy, and that's not alignment indicative either way. I don't think he's done much to warrant a town or scum read.

[Espsyoncheage]

You've been incorrectly scum reading me for what the entire game? How come you only make a case NOW? Where was it last day phase? I mean I don't really care, I just wanted to poke at your confirmation bias by making your case well after you scum read my slot. Is anyone supposed to believe that you had a revelation all of a sudden? Walk me through this please.

[Espsyoncheage]

This is Bone unless otherwise noted by my other heads.

[Espsyoncheage]

I stayed off the wagon out of spite to Wisdom and was offline when momentum finally shifted but too be honest I would have kept off if I was online anyway. Shrug.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm sure you actually do believe I'm scum so I don't care about the details. I want to know why you couldn't do t f at last day phase? It's a simple question that doesn't require dismissal.

[Espsyoncheage]

Yes actually...have you seen your avatar and username? It looks just like his!

This is a read you share right? You have no insight as to why you weren't pushing me hard yesterday if I am your top scumread?

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: espsy

would also lynch AP.

I havent read anything from today because no time, will prob do later

~Wis

Translation: I noticed just enough that my biggest detractor has a few votes, and I need to start getting rid of players who want to lynch me.

[Espsyoncheage]

i think the people complaining about nobody dying are scum
town love no kills

Who was complaining?

I like flips though.
-Cheet

I like

scum

flips. And pigeons.

i'm a bit more ambivalent about esp now than i was before but i really wish it were easy to reread the game

Nullfencesittytiptoe.
(Why need we townread Psyche again?)

VOTE: Esp
It's already known I'm sort of a follower, so you can look at my past posts if you want why I suspect that slot (whether those reasons are weak or not - you can attack me for that lol). But if this wagon (or any wagon) goes down, it won't be because I'm a driving force behind it
/mobile

Monoscope.

Homilectic Homonucleii, 2573 – And everything you've quoted from me can be easily explained if you're aware of the facts that (1) we're reading players in a different way and (2) we're talking about our reads in our Hydra PT too.
Actually the

lack

of hydra dissonance is a thing that I find scummy... or, it's better to say: there's real dissonance and there's

fake

dissonance. If you check the posts of each head, you'll find different posting style, reads, frequency, everything. I, personally don't think I'd be able to "intentionally disorganized that much" as scum.

I will be here tonight (not phoneposting either). Fyi This post is to:

@Mario (if you'll quit lurking and let loose!), notscience (who is awol, so doubt it), metal and zzzx.

not comfortable bouncing thoughts off anyone else I don't think, Unless someone else wants to holler. This group of names should start a side convos IMHO to get good reads on each other for a darn good reason - compatability, for one

If he's scum one of his buddies is on that list. Most probably the second or the third name.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Also

Hydrate: Espsyoncheage

[Espsyoncheage]

If it makes anyone feel any better I yelled at Anen for making empty posts so hopefully that gets better because I'm pretty fucking obviously town when I post.

[Espsyoncheage]

Revelation? No, not at all. Yesterday was too loud and full of bitching and stupid to build a case on you. I decided not to bother pursuing it until today because I don't have the patience or desire to try to push something through when Wisdom has decided he wants something. And besides, I thought Ricastle was scum as well and my opinion on you was quite firmly on the record in the event of my death. I don't think anyone outside of you and Generic would have much reason to kill us, so...

All the more reason we should get rid of Wisdom, but I digress, thanks for answering.

We were doing so well this day phase and then Wisdom needed to vomit three more pages of posts. We're not lynching anyone Wisdom wants to lynch today after the fit he threw yesterday.

[Espsyoncheage]

Vote: TWIE

Hydrate: Singersinger

[Espsyoncheage]

He still is a liability at best and scum at worst, so those hydrations are probably just happening to spite Sonic.

[Espsyoncheage]

We should hydrate Singer (which is what he's saying OS)

[Espsyoncheage]

Bert, why did you vote me in the first place? I didn't even see that you had.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not gonna argue with you so unless you are going to consider any sort of responses to your confirm biased ISO dive, please don't even bother Ceph. You already think I'm scum how are you going to find anything new that you hadn't before? You even going to reconsider your bad read? If the answer is no, then all you would be doing is cluttering the thread with your nonsense (and my nonsense).

How does one get people to listen to them? Do I just tell everyone to vote Espy every time I post? Please advise, I'm not influential

Yeah that's how the bad players do it.

I mean if you actually want to develop your read with me I'm here for you, if you want to be a rabblerouser instead yeah go for it, ask for people to vote for me in every post, I don't mind.

[Espsyoncheage]

All the unsigned posts are by me (Bone). The policy lynch push was all me. For reference the majority of the Osseus posts in those two games were me as well. If that helps great, if not okay, I wanted to see where your mindset was. This past week was pretty much the T-Bone show cause wgurts has exams and Anen has work, it'll probably be reversed in two weeks when I have school work and they are free, but that's off-topic.

I'm not quite sure I understand you Re: Wisdom. Wisdom has always insisted TWIE is town and that I am scum, he's been consistent on that.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not gonna argue with you so unless you are going to consider any sort of responses to your confirm biased ISO dive, please don't even bother Ceph. You already think I'm scum how are you going to find anything new that you hadn't before? You even going to reconsider your bad read? If the answer is no, then all you would be doing is cluttering the thread with your nonsense (and my nonsense).

my objective would be to convince others to vote for you, not to convince you that you're scum. you already know that!

Which is why I need to work you on making the correct read, but if you're not interested I don't want to waste your time.

[Espsyoncheage]

That shouldn't bug you, if nothing else Wisdom is at least consistent with his rhetoric.

[Espsyoncheage]

Since when do you care about how people are reading you, Tbone? In Mod Error you didn't give a fuck, you didn't make a single effort to convince anyone that they were wrongly scumreading you.

Oh man, this is the point where I pull a Wisdom quote where you point out that people don't play the same way across games.

The answer is of course I don't care all that much if he scumreads me or not. It's not about me, it's about him and whether I should reciprocate the scumread or not. You see Wisdom this is how good players play, they don't just yell at the walls, they engage.

[Espsyoncheage]

It's not like I made a post full of things like questions and things you could respond to instead of just constantly calling the read on you bad.
Since you have so much time to show up and awkwardly flail at me instead of actually responding to things, let me just point out things you objectively should be responding to or you can expect me to start actually hardpushing this when I get back:
i) Why did the read on randomidget get dropped entirely?
ii) Why did your vote sit on nothing for such a long time on D1?
iii) Why were you townreading Oversoul and why did you defend him?
iv) Why is agreeing with someone making you feel as though they're town?
v) Why were you more in favour of a policy lynch over a lynch on someone you thought was scum so close to deadline?

The only person who's disagreed with the read on you in any kind of actual substantial way just kind of dropped responding to me on it so I'm kind of just baffled that it feels like the wagon is dissipating in favour of someone who's literally just trying to piss people off and is probably town.

What even is the reasoning for TWIE being scum that's being pushed right now? That he's not scumhunting? Why is that not coming from trolltownTWIE? He's clearly not playing like he was in Survivor, so I'm kind of just left thinking that people are annoyed at him being abrasive which is a dumb reason to want to lynch him.

-Cheet

I'm sure you're going to dismiss all my explanations because you think I'm scum, (incidentally why I ignored your read when it lacked substance and votes) but sure I'll play ball.

i) Not my post or read, I don't feel for him one way or another
ii) It sat on Ricastle and then on Wisdom, but sure let's call those nothing votes. I'm sure there was a period in which we were voting no one, and that happens. We also weren't voting someone this day phase until recently.
iii) Yeah immediately when wgurts made that post I yelled at him for it in our hydra PT. Oversoul doesn't post enough for me to say one way or another it was a relatively minor thing.
iv) Because when players have the same thought processes as me I tend to find them town.
v) Because I'm all for getting rid of players that are a liability and or just unpleasant to play with. Go ask Ceph what I did with shos last game.

And the TWIE vote is again because he is an unpleasant liability at best, and scum at worst. I actually felt he was just scum yesterday, I'll admit he is slowly trending in a more positive direction so we'll see how that goes.

[Espsyoncheage]

My point was not "you dont play like mod error Tbone therefore you aren't town". My point is that you trying to manipulate people into thinking you care about working with them holds scum motivation.

I'm not trying to manipulate anyone. I'm trying to do two things, one is not automatically scumread a player just because they are scumreading me, and two I'm trying to develop my own read on Ceph and co. I can kind of look at it objectively because it seems like the problems he has had the most are not with my posts, but with wgurts and Anen's, the scumread is indirectly aimed at me.

There are things I think I consistently do across my town games that are evident here, if I was playing solo I'd probably be townread by more than a few players, I don't know for sure, but that's what it appears like to me. And going back to Mod Error I played pretty terribly, was bitter, and generally unpleasent. I know I am being unpleasent to you (maybe a bit unfairly) but that is because I am frustrated with you just in general. So right now I am trying to work through some of my frustrations, maybe start earning town reads, and look for scum.

[Espsyoncheage]

How is he an unpleasant liability exactly today?

Like I just said, that was yesterday, he's starting a more positive trend today. I know I talk in absolutes but I don't play in them.

[Espsyoncheage]

Also Wisdom I'm sorry and I'm gonna try to be nicer to you/about you.

[Espsyoncheage]

Shrug, you're gonna see what you want to see, I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

[Espsyoncheage]

Also Wisdom I'm sorry and I'm gonna try to be nicer to you/about you.

said no town ever to me.

I said nicer from an out of game standpoint, I didn't say I'd entertain or listen to anything you have to say gamewise because I know it is all garbage.

[Espsyoncheage]

Like I'm pretty sure at this point if we just lynched all your townreads we'd probably win this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

And I keep letting you bait me.

[Espsyoncheage]

indeed you would

Oh man I gotta save this for when I flip town. I expect votes on TWIE and Seiko on Day 3 then.

[Espsyoncheage]

Boner on D1, you reminded me fondly of Formerfish when he channeled the doctors on Intervention and freaked me out until I realized what he was doing, lol.

Don't know what you're talking about so I'll take your word for it??

Agh I dont really want to see TWIE still here in later day phases

so let's hydrate him, that will make scum kill him and you won't have to see him still here in later day phases

Well shit let's

Hydrate: Bacon on Eggs

then. Then at least there is a small chance Wisdom will be dead before LyLo...

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm just using your argument so...

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh man look at whose trying to manipulate people now!

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh please do.

[Espsyoncheage]

Look at Wisdom again deflecting when he gets called on his BS. Only Wisdom gets to manipulate other players and deflect criticism. No one else.

[Espsyoncheage]

Look at all that responsibility for spearheading a lynch and being wrong and then still treating people today like they should still listen to you because of course you're not wrong!

in my eyes Ricastle flipped scum, regardless of what the mod said. He was playing like scum.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Spoiler:

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Vote: Bacon and Eggs

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: bacon&eggs
Because they are scum regardless of what they flip.

Trolololololololol.

Also no one wants to lynch MM4 which baffles.

Spoiler: NSFW

[Espsyoncheage]

Jokes on you ZZZX I'll vote for him every time it looks like some steam is building regardless of the game state (or haveyou not been paying attention?)

Put your vote back and I'll owe you one.

[Espsyoncheage]

you seriously think bacon is scum

I seriously think he is anti-town. Scum would not surprise me, even the most stubborn of town should be capable of change.

[Espsyoncheage]

You shouldn't have to look hard. It's either very apparent that I am town, or you can't see it. Wisdom has little actual substance and an anti-town agenda....accuses people of doing scummy things while doing those same things. The only reason I am personally not taking a hard 'Wisdom is scum' stance or explicitly said so is because I have gotten myself too emotionally involved into seeing his slot gone that I can't objectively read the slot anymore.

So you can vote me or not, I don't care, I'll be Wisdom's counterwagon any day because I know I'm in the right.

[Espsyoncheage]

Let's go Psyche, I am town, so I will be Wisdom's counterwagon because I am so certain that not only is my towness so apparent, but because the Wisdom lynch is the most correct lynch we can make. Vote him or vote me, no more fencesitting bud, take a stance.

[Espsyoncheage]

Where is your hang up? Why do you feel you need to 'find' reasons that I am town?

[Espsyoncheage]

More Bacon votes please.

[Espsyoncheage]

Hey I want some promises that Wisdom gets lynched day 3 after I flip town.

[Espsyoncheage]

you seriously think bacon is scum

I seriously think he is anti-town. Scum would not surprise me, even the most stubborn of town should be capable of change.

vote Espsych

along with his posts just emitting scum gutreads

his stance on bacon is antitown grandstanding designed to make him look as if he's passionate and trying while at the same time permitting him to avoid actually scumhunting or committing to actual scumreads

the difference between the slot and actually stubborn town is that

the slot's

performance is neither convincing nor realistic
it's just too convoluted a stance for a 3-headed hydra to consistently stand behind

You're also scum. IN WHAT UNIVERSE does scum want Wisdom lynched? The answer is NONE OF THEM. Wisdom is the SINGLE BIGGEST ASSET TO SCUM in this game.

[Espsyoncheage]

Wisdom Day 3, Psyche Day 4. I'll be confirmed town soon enough so you know my reads are A++

[Espsyoncheage]

also suspect:

Oh la well, p2 = Psyche.
I remember reading these null-posts a lot, after I replaced in his slot.
Unless someone tells me that posts from like this are normal from a town-him, I consider him scum. Period. ISO White Flag-Psycho. Iso p2 here. Can you see? Can you all see?

this passionate (and fallacious) psyche read that the slot never followed up on despite an apparent consensus among heads affirming it
his iso is full of quips like "Why need we townread Psyche again?", acting as if the slot's been somehow forced into a townread of me that it just can't escape from

a reliable pattern of "liability" votes (for example, TWIE) instead of votes for scumreads, which he apparently possesses

lame Ricastle push

There are, of course, reasons to think Espsych is town, but they're too lame for me to mention them now.

I mean COME ON. Look at this confirmation bias. Votes me but now needs to convince himself after the fact he's making a good vote (Hint: he's not).

[Espsyoncheage]

Well that's your problem then. You want to mislynch an obviously town slot and keep around bad/scum players. It's not my fault you are being as terrible with your reads as humanly possible.

[Espsyoncheage]

So don't blame me Ceph, you said you wanted to get better but you are trying really hard to do the opposite. My townieness is practically slapping you in the face. Wisdom's playstyle is designed to do one thing, get those who are town to fight with him so that scum won't kill him, and then he can feel good about himself later.

[Espsyoncheage]

But hey I give no fucks about you and your reads so please continue to vote me. Your reads are terrible and I wouldn't want you to accidentally change your vote to a scum wagon.

[Espsyoncheage]

May all your votes be mislynches.

[Espsyoncheage]

May all your votes be mislynches.

THIS IS A FUNNY JOKE BECAUSE HE'S VOTING FOR A MISLYNCH, YOU SEE

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't know that necessarily means anything (and I don't think it does). Singer's circumstance in the game (in which she was v/la for awhile) required her to do so. What should she have done Bert? Posted two lines and went "all caught up!". Remember it from this perspective. While we have been experiencing the game in real time, she essentially experienced the entire game in a single night. From page 1 to page whatever she stopped, that was her real time.

[Espsyoncheage]

esp reminds me of myself when I'm having a bad scumgame - desperately trying to argue I'm obvtown when I really am the opposite

I'm happy to see you are having a good scumgame then. Stay positive!

[Espsyoncheage]

Or are you going to try to spin this as you having another terrible town game? Man I can't wait to see that!

"Guys Esp was so obvious scum and I mad he flipped town".

Blame me just like you blamed Ricastle! Here's a hint for you. There is one problem in common with both mislynches. I'll let you figure out the rest.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't think you actually know what a town player looks like. So *shrug*.

I mean getting pissy and throwing fits is how Wisdom gets what he wants, so I'm just doing the same thing. How am I doing on that front? Very soon you won't be able to tell my posts apart from Wisdom's!

I just gotta work on that pesky capitalization...

[Espsyoncheage]

Please HH, I don't want to burden you with critical thinking though. I am so obviously scum, you got me. There is nothing but scum motivation in all my posts! F+!

[Espsyoncheage]

Wisdom I hope you appreciate how much I am trying to be like you right now. I've also channel Kuribo for a little bit of spice, I hope you like it!

[Espsyoncheage]

Even if you are in fact town, you don't look like a town player. That much is just about objective fact.

Hedging your bets already? Oh man looks like you've learned something from Wisdom too. Are you gonna blame me when I flip town?

Don't worry I'll get that post ready for you when Mara starts Day 3.

"It was Bone's fault we lynched him! Not mine what-so-ever!"

How does it look? It could use some work I'll admit, I'm posting a little off-the-cuff right now but I'll keep working on it.

[Espsyoncheage]

Tell me all about why you're obvtown Espwhatever. Since it's so obvious.
Give it to me in three concise points.
-Cheet

Nah, I don't want you to correctly read me. I tried reaching out to you the other day and it got thrown in my face. I don't want you to stop voting me, you don't deserve to get this one right.

[Espsyoncheage]

I wouldn't want to burden you with any sort of critical thinking. Like "why would scum try to lynch a pro-scum player in Wisdom?" or "why is Bone so frustrated if he's scum?" No, no, no, Cheet, Ceph, please continue to do what you do.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not Wisdom, I can admit when I've fucked up

I just don't think I'm fucking up

Finally some honesty! I really think that you do think I'm scum. At this point I'm just too frustrated to be interested in working with you, and you already threw it in my face when I tried anyway. So for the foreseeable future I'm just gonna be frustrated until I can talk with players who want to work through the game. I don't think you do (and to be honest at this very moment I don't really want to either).

[Espsyoncheage]

Like, just hold on for a fucking second with the dumb flailing bullshit.

Are you scumreading Bacon and Egg or not?
Because the manner in which you're engaging them and mocking them seems like you think that they're wrong town vs malicious scum.
-Cheet

It's at the point where I can't give an honest read one way or another. That's the truth. Ceph knows I did the same thing regarding shos last game. There is no way I can give an objective read on him anymore.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm sure you're going to dismiss all my explanations because you think I'm scum, (incidentally why I ignored your read when it lacked substance and votes) but sure I'll play ball.

i) Not my post or read, I don't feel for him one way or another
ii) It sat on Ricastle and then on Wisdom, but sure let's call those nothing votes. I'm sure there was a period in which we were voting no one, and that happens. We also weren't voting someone this day phase until recently.
iii) Yeah immediately when wgurts made that post I yelled at him for it in our hydra PT. Oversoul doesn't post enough for me to say one way or another it was a relatively minor thing.
iv) Because when players have the same thought processes as me I tend to find them town.
v) Because I'm all for getting rid of players that are a liability and or just unpleasant to play with. Go ask Ceph what I did with shos last game.

And the TWIE vote is again because he is an unpleasant liability at best, and scum at worst. I actually felt he was just scum yesterday, I'll admit he is slowly trending in a more positive direction so we'll see how that goes.

Also, you being like "I CANT ANSWER HALF OF THESE QUESTIONS" does very fucking little to quell any kind of wariness I have about any issues related to them.
How can you call yourself obvtown when you're admitting in this post that other people in your hydra have said things that are bad?
How does that make any sense?
You still need to get your hydrapartners to address literally most of what I was asking you here.
I wanted to understand your thought process in general and came away just feeling kind of sick to my stomach with how dodgy and indirect all of this was.
-Cheet.

I can't speak for my hydra partners (who are both v/la), but I think at the very least I've been open and honest with my thoughts, and that's the best I can do right now.

[Espsyoncheage]

Even if I've been kind of a dick this evening about those thoughts.

[Espsyoncheage]

If you don't want to engage me right now, fine. Whatever.
Just tell your hydraheads to eventually answer my questions here and to walk through their thought processes and I'll read over your ISO again with those answers in mind.
And if I come away feeling like all of this was a bullshit flailfest to knock cred away from people pushing you, I'm gonna push this again and I'm just going to ignore you screaming about how obvtown you are. -.-
-Cheet.

I've quoted this post in my hydra QT to highlight your point.

[Espsyoncheage]

Can you be more scum? "Let me do all I can to discredit any potential dead townie's reads right now!"

[Espsyoncheage]

my entire case on espsych was mostly a vindictive effort to piss him off

Sorry bud you're a minnow in my mighty ocean.

[Espsyoncheage]

hey espy

get you ass on TWIE

else im getting mine on yours

Only if you promise we can take care of Wisom and or at the very least you won't listen to anything he says anymore. Considering I am counterwagon to scum, I don't know what you think threatening to vote me will change.

And yes they'll answer your questions HH as soon as they get back. I haven't heard from either of them either but I'll keep posting in my hydra PT until they do so.

[Espsyoncheage]

Before going on.

Wgeurts is busy IRL right now and so am I.
Also, I've never hydra'ed before this game.
These things may explain our inconsistency and other things. Even if it sounds like a lame excuse, it's actually true.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

If you don't want to engage me right now, fine. Whatever.
Just tell your hydraheads to eventually answer my questions here and to walk through their thought processes and I'll read over your ISO again with those answers in mind.
And if I come away feeling like all of this was a bullshit flailfest to knock cred away from people pushing you, I'm gonna push this again and I'm just going to ignore you screaming about how obvtown you are. -.-
-Cheet.

Okay, let's talk. You're on our wagon and I, personally, don't think keep repeating "we're town" would change that. I'm still scumreading Bacon&Egg. Also Psyche, regardless of anyone's opinion. As for TWIE... I've just checked it and he seems to post differently since he got out of the widely scumread player's list.

unvote

note to self not to trust the reads of anyone still pushing espsy

While I think you are probably right, the whole Anen posting empty posts thing bothers me. I still have not got an answer to that.

What was the question?

Then let's hydrate TWIE. Or let's agree on someone else like Bert, HH, Generic. Why the hell AP?

Eg. this is concerning, alongside with B&E's townread on TWIE and HH's agree-ing attitude, 3057.

–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

Most of his early posts are "reactive".
Around 1500 the posts became shorter and emptier, with few exceptions. Also, around 1700 (eg. 1702) he started to be "off-offensive", I mean, calling others aßhole, which is interesting because he was much peaceful earlier, when Sonic wanted to WotC him. Above 1900 we can find almost no content.
I can add that I saw him another game before. He was town and much more "less-involved".

[Espsyoncheage]

^^
–Ane

[Espsyoncheage]

VOTE: SonicBoom
OMGUS me.
Please.
Can we do a 1v1?
Because like.
Win win for me if that's what happens.

You're a damn fucking hypocrite and if you had any integrity you'd either put your vote on Wisdom or replace out. Fucking bullshit. Wisdom is a determent for 132 pages but you refuse to vote him and call me scum for wanting him lynched. Titus is a determent for like 2 pages and you're really quick to vote him. You're only interested in lynching players who aren't hard townreading you.

HYPOCRITE. You have no business being in this game when you are just this actively fucking terrible. Your reads are shit, and your principles are obviously shit as evidence by your vote.

-FUCKING T-BONE

[Espsyoncheage]

OH OH BUT WHEN I DO IT IT'S BECAUSE I'M SCUM.

You're a hypocrite of the highest order and that one vote just invalidates your entire ISO. Great work! You showed your hand for what you really are.

[Espsyoncheage]

Man it's so good to wake up in the morning and call out a hypocrite. Thank you for that.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'll vote for him. With the one vote he showed his hand, and it's a scum one. You were right Generic.

[Espsyoncheage]

We can lynch him, Wisdom, and TWIE and set ourselves up for success!

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't remember saying that, are you sure it wasn't Cheet?

Either way now you fucking know how I feel and your slot can't shit on me for it anymore.

[Espsyoncheage]

Make excuses all you want, you're a hypocrite and everything you have said in this game is no longer valid.

[Espsyoncheage]

You're only interested in lynching players who aren't hard townreading you.

My posts contain hypocritical views, please disregard.

[Espsyoncheage]

Boo fucking hoo Titus told you to shut up. Cheet, shut up, you're a hypocrite. At least Ceph recognizes it and isn't making excuses.

[Espsyoncheage]

You're funny.

[Espsyoncheage]

Generic and HH, not fucking again. Please, I made a point about how the town egofighting has to stop. That applies to you two as well.

LOLOLOL says the one who STARTED IT ALL

[Espsyoncheage]

You can't blame me when YOU fucked up. You fucked up last night. Instead of making excuses own up to it.

[Espsyoncheage]

Oh man if only you didn't give me shit for wanting Wisdom lynched because he causes most of the fighting and makes the game unpleasant and then VOTED SONIC BOOM for fighting and making the game unpleasant for you. This is MY fault how? That I'm calling yo out on it? You're damn right you're gonna get called out on it when you have been shitting on me for doing the same thing. This is YOUR fault don't try to play the victim here.

[Espsyoncheage]

I didn't start out like this. I ASKED Wisdom to tone it down. Multiple people ASKED him to tone down his egoposting. THAT'S ALL ANYONE FUCKING WANTED. The problem is Wisdom ALWAYS HAS to have the last word, Wisdom ALWAYS HAS TO be right, Wisdom ALWAYS HAS TO shove his opinion down everyone's throat, Wisdom ALWAYS HAS TO shout anyone and everyone down who doesn't share his view on the game. So yes HH when you are shitting on me for wanting to lynch THAT, and then you turn around in a fit of your own frustration and vote for Sonic Boom because he is pissing you off, THAT makes you a hypocrite and I am all too happy to call you out on it because I have been dealing with people shitting on my desire to lynch Wisdom for most of the game.

[Espsyoncheage]

i would vote someone on policy if i thought one person in particular were responsible for what's annoying about this thread

Well it ALL started with Wisdom. All the fighting is inevitably centered on him.

[Espsyoncheage]

LOLOLOL

[Espsyoncheage]

@Mod: please replace us

Wisdom, please dont ever join a game Im in again.

If I stay in this game Im going to get modkilled for telling you exactly what your parents never had the courage to tell you.

Look, they replaced out because you were being a prick to them. No don't make excuses, they replaced out because of you, whether you think it was an overreaction or not.

Wisdom, if you are as good as you claim, and expect me to know which of your reads are good or bad, you should be able to give me the same respect. I am not a Wisdom interpretation Goddess. He'll, we can say my skills with people suck. I can start wagons with relative ease as scum and when town, it's like world war three. I am working on it. However, to do that I need a dialogue.

When I first brought the issue up, Titus chimed in asking you for just a little respect. WHICH IS WHAT I ASKED FOR. (and which Titus has asked for multiple times through out the game, for you to stop and listen for a moment). That's it.

I won't be talking to Wisdom at all while I'm here.

AP replaces back in and is still pissed at your attitude. But no, this isn't Wisdom's fault either.

Oh, that was in reference to how terrible you are, not this game.

Oh hey Singer also thinks you are a terrible player. "Oh but she used a smiley/didn't ask like you did/some other excuse". But in this thread it is well documented at various stages people are frustrated with the way you are playing. But nope it's 'Only Me" (tm). The issue is most players drop it, I just haven't dropped it because in ~600 posts you haven't changed.

I hope the result of this game will go towards changing your attitude, I really do. Don't get it twisted, you aren't good at scumhunting; you're good at being stubborn and obnoxious.

He was scum though so I suppose his opinion doesn't matter?

The 100% certainty you push is pretty bullshit and if I hadn't agreed on Ricastle I think I probably would have been annoyed with you too.
It's pretty annoying with singer too.

Oh look at that, your certainty is "pretty annoying".

So I mean all I ever asked in the first place was...

All you can do is go "look guys how right I am in these random instances". Being right in some random instances has no bearing on this game. Any perceived "skill" you may have is bullshit at best and shit you need to keep to yourself. You want to look in your bathroom mirror and tell yourself that you are the best to ever play mafia? Fine, you do that. Don't come in here and shove that garbage down our throats.

You are only as good as mafia as the way you treat your fellow players. And you just talk down to everyone in every post and call them stupid in every post, and that's why you either need to change or get lynched.

We asked Titus and Sonic to stop being spam posty. What did they do? They stopped being spam posty and let everyone else play the game too. Why? Because they recognize that being courteous to their fellow players was worth more than shoving themselves down our throats. That is the hallmark of a good player, recognizing the rest of the player deserves you to be respectful to them regardless of alignment or anything else.

That's it. All I'm asking you to do is start respecting the rest of the player list.

But in my experience with you, you are incapable of doing so.

I mean that was SO HORRIBLE of me right? To ask you to play this game with a little respect for the rest of us? But no your response was...

n short, you think you know me and you understand me but you really don't.

~Wis

"I'm not the problem you are." You could have done any number of things here (because it was also around this point that Titus chimed in asking you to show her the same respect she is showing you), you could have said "yeah I'll try to tone it down." That's all I was ever looking for. But no....you had to "win" that argument too. Just like you have to win every argument. Just like you have to have the last word every time.

[Espsyoncheage]

How is it annoying with singer? I wasted a fucking hour to go back through her ISO to try and explain what's wrong with her and nobody except Bert has not even given signs of reading anything I said.

I'll go read it now.
Point is that I tend to roll my eyes at anyone who pushes 100% certainty in general, especially if it's not when someone is caught up in the heat of the moment.
I think it's pretty bullshit that you shoved the responsibility for the Ricastle lynch onto Ricastle.
This isn't really game-related though. I just think it's dumb when people play like they're better than everyone else.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if people thought that of me so weeeeeeeeeeeee I guess I'm just a hypocrite. Anticipating a fucking t-boner from me saying that.

Nothing wrong with this post? For the record I think you play fine, you can be a little cheeky (but we all can) so it's no big deal.

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm not them I don't know which post set them off (it's more likely your 'I'm better than everyone attitude") I just know (as does everyone else) that they did because of you.

[Espsyoncheage]

Well it fucking looks like you need to win every argument and be right about everything. Like how you pushed Ricastle to oblivion (which while I agreed with the read, disagreed with your attitude about it). The way in which you BLAMED Ricastle for your read. The way in which you gotta prove to Titus that you are always right in games you play with her.

[Espsyoncheage]

Is it the fact that she said that she may have missed context that is pinging you?

Nothing wrong with this post? For the record I think you play fine, you can be a little cheeky (but we all can) so it's no big deal.

...
-.-
Is this anen or something?
Who am I even talking to anymore?
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Anen posted a little bit last night. It's all Bone right now.

[Espsyoncheage]

Is it the fact that she said that she may have missed context that is pinging you?

Nothing wrong with this post? For the record I think you play fine, you can be a little cheeky (but we all can) so it's no big deal.

...
-.-
Is this anen or something?
Who am I even talking to anymore?
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I'm upset with you over being hypocritical by voting Titus when you were frustrated with her, not for being some sort of egotistical maniac.

[Espsyoncheage]

I think TWIE is genuinely scum. Early in the game he pretty much used Sonic's push as a reason to not play. And this didn't go on for a day, it went on for something like 70 pages? I can understand being legitimately upset at Sonic to not want to produce content in the game, but he flaunted it. He taunted Sonic whenever he stopped pushing TWIE. He taunted ZZZX when he targeted him for no content. A little taunting? Fine I guess town can do it. The entirety of his posting? That's a scumplayer who is riding the fact that he was being pushed for reasons unrelated to the game and can bank on that as a reason to pretty much active lurk. I can't really find anything to support him being town, he just looks opportunistic. Maybe that he hasn't added his vote to any of his counter wagons is a plus for him? I dunno.

Psyche I'm not as confident on. He active lurks, that's the entirety of his ISO. He implies he has reads on other players because they 'lack content' while almost entirely lacking content himself. His ISO is like an encyclopedia of scumhunting buzzwords. I think he is hedging his bets on my wagon, supporting it when it gains traction, then distancing himself when it loses it. There is just a single thing he has said that made me stop in my tracks for a moment, he accused me of taking steps to try to avoid responsibility for the Ricastle mislynch, something that I frequently accuse players of doing that is scummy (cause it is). While the context isn't quite right, the good thought process is there.

There's a lot of players who I'm just unimpressed with (Cait, Oversoul, mario, Random, Seiko) in general, but even things like that can be explained as they can't keep up with all the posting and fighting. Cait is pretty self-centered when she does post. I don't recall a single post of Oversoul's that wasn't about him being on v/la. I don't recall a single post of Mario (though the way his wagon built up at the end of day 1 was kinda shit and I want to revisit that at some point), I don't remember much of random other than the thing he did really early Day 1 (voting for Sonic and then hydrating him in his very next post as if the vote didn't happen), this is a slot that is just lurking. Seiko I think is town, but leaves a lot to be desired.

And then there is all of us whom are fighting, I think Sonic and Singer are town....Generic's predecessor wasn't very good I don't have a feeling one way or another, Bert's waffleness is something I've attributed to being town even though that kind of play just feels wrong to attribute to town, ZZZX and AP are in this middle area where I don't have a feeling one way or another, and I can't give an objective opinion on Wisdom and you (HH). Anen actually thinks Wisdom is scum, but I think I may have compromised his view as well. I thought Singer's catch-up points about Wisdom were valid, but I was going to rely on everyone else anyway. Even if I re-read Wisdom and give an objective as possible read on him, would anyone believe it at this point?

More than you bargained for Cheet, this is me trying to move past the fighting again.

[Espsyoncheage]

Boner is a boss at ATE, in a very Nacho-like way. It makes me become Sir Waffles.

@cheet: game 1 (scum) where T-bone (as osseus hydra) flails a lot

game 2 (town) where T-bone (as osseus hydra) flails a lot

Lol I can't even spell that hydra name. Osseus Pseudotropolis (sp?)

I don't flail? I don't even know what a flailing T-Bone looks like.

[Espsyoncheage]

Other than "because she says things about you that I agree" and "because you are scumreading her"

Well because the things-

I think she shows the critical thinking I expect to see from town. I know one of your (someone's?) arguments early Day 1 was that she was questioning things and then providing no follow up, but I disagreed with that. Early on she questioned blanket townreads on her from players she wasn't interacting with. On one hand you can wave that away as scum theatre, on the other hand in a game like this, what's the point? And yeah she said things early on I agreed with. She picked up on the same things I picked up on with Ricastle, about trying to bully people with a flavorclaim (something that got largely ignored by everyone else). I think she was hitting the right notes against Rune. I know scum can legitimately scumhunt in multiball, but there is a certain point where a scum player in multiball needs to push a narrative and I don't feel it. Her 'catch-up' that people bemoaned was again another thing that I think comes from a town place. It's busy work that she didn't need to do (and if she was scum trying to fake it, then it hilariously backfired for the most part). The fighting that has been going on in this thread is so great scum players either have to participate in the fight (to keep it going), or just completely stay out of it any not put in any real sustained effort. Scum can come in, make a post that seems like scumhunting, and show themselves out. I don't think Singer is doing that, I think she is consistently trying to push through with her content.

I think there are things about Singer worth questioning...I'm not sure where her reads are at this point, I think she is avoiding taking hard stances on any of our fighting slots...but these things aren't enough to make me reconsider my read. I think you see emptyness in her posts? I don't quite see it. So here walk me through what you are seeing.

[Espsyoncheage]

Show me real quick.

[Espsyoncheage]

Did I miss TWIE explaining what he really meant about Sonic Boom shutting up? Or basically any of his other motivations for the way he was acting? Why does it feel like this stands out so vividly in your memory from over 100 pages ago?

I'm just taking one post of the exchanges you've been having, but at a certain point you should realize the hard town stance you have on TWIE is weird at best and makes no sense at worst. Yeah Singer should question it. What narrative do you think she is pushing here? You can argue that she is trying to justify getting on your wagon later, and I could buy that. But if she was trying to justify wagoning you later, why does she stop at you? Why does she never engage me or AP about voting you if her intention is to sneak on the wagon at a later date?

No where does that indicate you're implying the second half of the bolded is switching subjects to Titus instead of TWIE, which made it look like you were interpreting what he was saying based off of your memory or narrative of what was going on at the time.

GiF said you weren't even around at the beginning of the game so it felt really out of place that you remembered the details of this particular scenario so long after the fact, despite currently discussing why Titus thinks he's scum (I was implying it was something you noticed as a scum buddy in case that wasn't obvious).

Another instance in which she is engaging you over perceived inconsistancies, but she isn't engaging anyone else about them. This could be a "big deal" and perfectly reasonable for her to go 'look guys Wisdom is scum/getting higher as scum/etc.'. But instead she's only engaging with you about it. Who is she trying to convince of anything? What narrative do you think she is pushing in her interactions?

I would've assumed it would be to make me a better night kill target, which is why I was initially weirded out by your question, but the bolded makes sense.

Though...could you explain exactly what strategy you think that would be playing into? Either my team is hydrating me, or scum's setting me up for a kill/crosskill, or I'm townreading one of them incorrectly. Can you think of any other scenarios? Which do you think is more likely?

And I think again she is trying to cut through a noise a little bit to address things. Seiko is vague about his perceived 'scum-strategies' and Singer asks him to expand on it. Again I think that is critical thinking that a scumplayer just wouldn't be inclined to do. That's an example of how I am taking her posts.

[Espsyoncheage]

Show me real quick.

3228 and the exchange around it. In short, Titus has been falsely claiming for the whole game that TWIE said he will post reads if Sonic Boom shuts up. In 3217 where I was trying to explain how I felt about the situation and singer getting in I mockingly refered to this faulty opinion of Titus. singer twisted that into "

Wisdom

says that TWIE would post reads if Sonic Boom shut up" when it was obvious what I was saying. And then she follows up on that saying that I am saying that because I have insight into why TWIE did whatever. She completely ignored the context, she completely ignored how obvious it was that I was voicing Titus there.

I'm not sure what you are arguing here? In 3226 you said "TWIE never asked Sonic Boom to shut up. Titus made that up." When multiple players interpreted TWIE's comment of "i don't need to provide content while sonic is here" as an implication that TWIE would provide content if Sonic left (which they did). You have said multiple times that TWIE never implied that but some of us think he did.

1313, 1562 and what I said about those in 3281 and 3282. The first is interjecting into me questioning Titus about why TWIE is scum to ask me why TWIE is town, as if that was the point there. There was zero follow up on that either. The sole intention of asking me that is to imply that I am defending TWIE. The latter is questioning TWIE on why he asked me about whether I think scum would hydrate themselves. For anyone who was reading the thread, it got obvious that TWIE was asking because he was supporting that Ricastle could be town due to asking to be hydrated, and since I was pushing Ricastle, he wanted to discuss that with me. singer once again ignored the context and tried to imply that TWIE asking me that was somehow interesting and weird. She made sure to focus on the fact that he was asking me of all people, because her intention, once again, was to imply a connection between me and TWIE.

That's the "real quick" version, but everything I just said I had already said. So could you just read what I have said instead of making me repeat?

You are defending TWIE though? I agree with you asking you why TWIE is town is pretty pointless. But you are right she is trying to imply a connection between the both of you here.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't know how the fuck else to explain it. It's clear manipulation.

But who is she trying to manipulate? That's what I fail to see. Why is she not directly engaging anyone else about the things you are doing if her intent is to slide onto a Wisdomwagon later down the line? If anything since the pressure from AP and I are policy related she NEEDS a game related reason to give the wagon some credibility, because from a game standpoint it doesn't have any.

[Espsyoncheage]

You are defending TWIE though? I agree with you asking you why TWIE is town is pretty pointless. But you are right she is trying to imply a connection between the both of you here.

, you literally just did one post ago by saying that his defense of TWIE is weird at best and "scummy" at worst. Come the fuck on. And don't berate me over putting scummy in quotes there when it was heavily implied in your post.

This goes back to my comment that the thing I think she has to do is start clarifying her reads. I think she sees Wisdom/Twin as a team but I just don't know for sure to say that because I feel she's being really coy about her reads and that does need to stop.

Also hydra slipping cause I'm mobile woolop

@Espy, Singer is doing that thing where scum direct conversation and play "peacemaker" while encouraging the conflict. She was doing that to me and Wisdom. She was encouraging me to keep pushing on TWIE but providing no substance to her support of me. Now, she's voting me while pushing the same platitudes. Look at Gundam Seed for a textbook example of peacemaker scum and you should see the play style from Singer is similar but with fewer posts.

@Wisdom, Just stop posting. Join us on vla. No one can bitch about us over posting if we are not here. Also, you're seeing vague "no scum motivation" from Espy BTW. Isn't it annoying? It's just a rephrase of too scummy to be scum.

I can see this thought. What is your perspective on the things we were just talking about?

Exactly. Now you're getting it. She is implying reads and connections instead of being clear about them because her goal is manipulation.

Okay I see where you are coming from.

All mine.

[Espsyoncheage]

man, can i just alt slip all the time? it's so FREEING

PSH now you're riding my hydra-slipping coattails.

[Espsyoncheage]

More sonic votes, please.

I'm looking at you, (AP, Bert, Ceph, Mario, Generic, Espy (if you want to live another day), Cait)

UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Sonic

@HH: I asked you guys what I did because I'm loosely thinking Egg/Singer/Sonic might be a team. Totally possible that I'm just batshit insane or -wanting- to believe things at this point, but thats where I'm at.

Bert is someone I need to read more...replaced Rune, might be mafia. I don't like how blatantly side-lined he is this game and I hated that post where he excused the Ricastle lynch by citing the lack of night kills.

Singer........I've actually found myself identifying with some of her posts at occasional junctures, which, as I stated before, is super refreshing. Bacon's push there is really what gets me; I get that Wisdom is like Nero Cain on steroids, but tunneling Singer for her prod-dodgy posts is really just beyond what I can accept from such a mindset by a little bit.

TWIE is a loose townread for me, mostly because I'd expect more from him if he were scum? I sort of expect more in general, but I'm willing to give him a chance right now.

HH still loosely town for the time being although I'm not 100% sold on that. Same with Generic really.

No one else is posting enough to be memorable or I just don't care right now.

Then what the hell are you discussing? Because you just called me out for explaining Singer's behavior, leading me to think you also think she's scum, but now you are completely belittling the discussion we were actually having about her?

[Espsyoncheage]

You are defending TWIE though? I agree with you asking you why TWIE is town is pretty pointless. But you are right she is trying to imply a connection between the both of you here.

, you literally just did one post ago by saying that his defense of TWIE is weird at best and "scummy" at worst. Come the fuck on. And don't berate me over putting scummy in quotes there when it was heavily implied in your post.

How do you go from this, which I took as you being unconvinced of my townread on Singer...

I realize that the case on Singer has evolved beyond her prod-dodgy posts but it definitely originated there and I thought the explanation behind why those posts were scummy is rather egregious. Espsy made an argument that I felt was fairly accurate along these lines and I thought the response to it left a lot to be desired.

To this, where you said I made an accurate argument. What is going on here?

[Espsyoncheage]

Which doesn't make any sense to me.

[Espsyoncheage]

I never denied that she was tying them together? It's pretty obvious that what's she was doing. We were arguing about WHY she was doing it, not what she was doing.

[Espsyoncheage]

The only thing I have called Singer out on is that I don't know what her reads are, and that's the problem I have. We were arguing that Wisdom thinks she was scum manipulating and I didn't think so. My thinking on Singer remains that I don't know what her reads are so I can't speak as to what those posts mean. I can assume she means that Wisdom and TWIE are scum together but she's never outright said so and has spurned an opportunity to vote TWIE in favor of voting Sonic which is inconsistent with what she seems to be saying and reading.

[Espsyoncheage]

No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

[Espsyoncheage]

To this, where you said I made an accurate argument. What is going on here?

As I said before, I was talking about Wisdom's case on singer. I can't remember yours other than the part where maybe you've become Wisdom' yes-man and are now trying to take credit for some of the case.

Because I don't have a case on Singer. We were discussing his case on Singer.

No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

Lol ok. Well I think she openly said that she doesn't have any good reads because I remember commenting on that and saying I felt similarly. So its not any big revelation that she isn't providing reads.

Then we are on the same page so I don't understand what the issue is?

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean she's not engaging anyone about it? The implications she is trying to push are in the thread. People read it, and not being fully understanding of what's being said, get the impression of "singer has a point! Look at how Wisdom and TWIE are connected!" when in fact she has ignored the context in all cases she has implied those connections.

I'm not even getting how you all of a sudden thought I was pushing ether of you as scum. In fact, I've even give soft town reads of you both! It wasn't until your last recollection of what happened that I started questioning and you FLIPPED OUT which made me question everything iroconally enough, lol.

Yeah...what? What were you doing, what are you doing now?

[Espsyoncheage]

In post 3526, Espsyoncheage wrote:
No I don't, because it's pretty obvious. He thinks it makes her scum, I don't think that. Again the problem that I do recognize is that Singer doesn't appear to have any concrete reads.

Did you read my catchup posts? I clearly stated three solid townreads and at least four solid scumreads, though those have morphed so for clarity's sake I'll updated them: Oversoul, random, Sonic Boom, Generic and probably Mario though he hasn't made an impression on me, just noting that specifically hasn't made an impression on me.

Yes but when you actually talk about people I don't get a sense of what you think about them. I thought you thought that Wisdom and TWIE were linked together as a scumteam, but then that never gets followed up on. I have no idea why during the argument last night and your seemingly scumread on TWIE that you vote for his counterwagon instead. There is a severe disconnect from what you said your reads are and how you approach them in practice.

[Espsyoncheage]

and it seems really weird that you can't understand how I misinterpreted your post

No, singer. What's weird is how anyone at all in this game would fail to understand that that was a Titus opinion, after Titus has spammed the living hell out of the game speaking about TWIE and how he supposedly didn't fulfill his "promise" to give reads once Titus shut up. Yet somehow you twist that into ME thinking that because I somehow have insight about what TWIE does and doesn't.

There is no fucking way to misinterpret that unless you have not read a single line of this game. But you know this, and you don't care. You just push implications at will, ignoring any relevant context.

This is still incorrect because Titus wasn't the only one to think this. I did, I think Singer did, ZZZX did...

[Espsyoncheage]

The point over your post about TWIE is dumb. You appear to have better points to argue over so I don't know why you are ignoring those in favor of this one.

Mine.

[Espsyoncheage]

@Espychonage, What do I have to do to get you to see Singer is scum? You are policy voting Bacon. I get it. He's only seeing what he thinks is important. He's about 4 to 5 games behind me in working with people.

I read her as town for reasons, so there's a place to start. I engaged with Wisdom over it and he's focusing on weird things that I don't think show Singer as scum motivated. So show me, I explained not too long ago what I see as town and why I see it.

[Espsyoncheage]

@Espy, Singer is doing that thing where scum direct conversation and play "peacemaker" while encouraging the conflict. She was doing that to me and Wisdom. She was encouraging me to keep pushing on TWIE but providing no substance to her support of me. Now, she's voting me while pushing the same platitudes. Look at Gundam Seed for a textbook example of peacemaker scum and you should see the play style from Singer is similar but with fewer posts.

@Wisdom, Just stop posting. Join us on vla. No one can bitch about us over posting if we are not here. Also, you're seeing vague "no scum motivation" from Espy BTW. Isn't it annoying? It's just a rephrase of too scummy to be scum.

I can see this thought. What is your perspective on the things we were just talking about?

Like when I asked this earlier.

[Espsyoncheage]

I have been trying to understand your viewpoint, but you need to step back and realize it's not going to happen at a snap of a finger.

[Espsyoncheage]

Because in my entire ISO I try to avoid doing things that make people think I'm scum...

[Espsyoncheage]

I'm still townreading you but there are things you are doing that don't look so great to me. And the game is discussing you instead of fighting so that's progress.

[Espsyoncheage]

I know I'm biased, but this whole post regarding why they were disagreeing with Bacon on me seemed genuine and understanding of where my head was at, plus boldly called out the fighting that can easily hide scum. (speaking of which, do you have any follow up on this or thoughts as to who might be doing the bolded?)

Since I was a big participant in the fighting, I don't feel impartial on it at the moment. I need some time to reflect.

I don't understand what you're saying. What do you mean she's not engaging anyone about it? The implications she is trying to push are in the thread. People read it, and not being fully understanding of what's being said, get the impression of "singer has a point! Look at how Wisdom and TWIE are connected!" when in fact she has ignored the context in all cases she has implied those connections.

I'm not even getting how you all of a sudden thought I was pushing ether of you as scum. In fact, I've even give soft town reads of you both! It wasn't until your last recollection of what happened that I started questioning and you FLIPPED OUT which made me question everything iroconally enough, lol.

Yeah...what? What were you doing, what are you doing now?

Uh...what?

I was just confused because again you haven't been clear with your reads and thought you were grouping them up as a scumteam, and then you went and voted sonic instead of TWIE.

I never responded to this. Aaaaaand, yes, I don't doubt that there is, lol. I don't know that my reads have been as organic as I've like them to have been, but I think I'm definitely adapting them as new information is being filtered. I've tried a lot of different approaches to how to figure out this game, and why it's different from S&V (which I can only attribute to having a team), to the extent that I solicited advice from a third party on how to scumhunt in a multi-ball game. >_> I think I caught on to Sonic, though, which is unfortunate because I really didn't want Titus to get caught twice in a row...

You don't need to use S+V as a crutch either. I was one of the few townreading you before you shot Titus (Even if Espeonage was poor at communicating this). Nonetheless I don't particularly care about that game in the context of this one. In the context of this one the knock I have on you is that you have communicated your reads poorly, (so much that it looks like you are hiding them to remain flexible) so when people say you are being manipulative with them I see where they are coming from. When you say things to me like "you are slowly looking for reasons to be on me" (kinky) it tells me you either aren't understanding the context of what is going on or purposely ignoring it. Because if I was convinced right off the bat I would have switched all my votes around by now. But I think in a round-about-way they have highlighted to me real problems with your play and maybe the townread is little shakier because of it. I dunno, I'll have to confer with my team.

[Espsyoncheage]

I don't fucking think you're scum espy, ok? I'm sorry I even voiced my suspicion after I just ISOd HH to read his whole case on you trying not to read it with bias.

Now you're just confusing me

[Espsyoncheage]

wow even my other head is counterwagoning singer. No words.

Literally the best thing I have ever read. Take your +1.

Mine.

Also HAHAHAHAHA hydra dissonance.