Borderlands Mafia [GAME OVER]

[CooLDoG]

It's three years since I joined MafiaScum. How time flies.

vote: tso

you are not old enough to say this.

[CooLDoG]

Also, here is an argument:
the 3rd vote on a wagon indicates the player making the vote is more likely to be scum
Tso was the 3rd vote on the wagon
thus, tso is more likely to be scum. QED

[CooLDoG]

Tarhalindur is a former player, not an adjective. It's a

very

old tell that was never that good at finding scum.

this.

Also, here is an argument:
the 3rd vote on a wagon indicates the player making the vote is more likely to be scum
Tso was the 3rd vote on the wagon
thus, tso is more likely to be scum. QED

Curious, is this based on some kind of statistic?

I'm only asking because considering the size of the game, why would scum vote third instead of either first or second considering the number of people needed to end on a train it would be more natural looking because there is easy cover day one?

no it isn't. I guess it is, see above posts, it was more of a joke.

It's sorta interesting to see the push-back against that argument. I didn't think anyone actually would take it seriously considering it is sort of a joke on the previous age comment.

[CooLDoG]

But it is actually older than ya'll though because it is a jeep tell: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ding_Mafia

[CooLDoG]

Also, why varsoon? Why yo do this?

[CooLDoG]

Vote: I am not I am not Varsoon

how is this in anyway related to a godfather claim

[CooLDoG]

14 goddamn pages

I have seen about 5 votes on me that is l2 in what I normally play.

excuses

I decided to stop declaring myself town because people scum read me for it. god damnit elyse.

excuses pt.2

Titus has taken control of the Memes of Production.

fluff

VOTE: DWLEE
I ACTUALLY THINK EVERYONE IS SCUM UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE
COME AT ME.

We need to talk this through mate.

your name extends past your avvy box and overlaps post numbers. You are going to go to hell when you die. You will roast in the lake of fire and have your balls chopped off. And you will deserve it. Probably your a great guy in other regards, but this one sin is too great. Also I'm calling you var2x

Arise counter-wagon arise!

why? Wagon seems fine. Dwelee scum ⊃ var2x scum

Then why are you so eager to defuse the Dwlee wagon?

I'm not defending it, I'm trying to sort dwee before taking any stance on it.

then don't vote on his wagon. Your posting doesn't make sense from town perspective atm.

vote: I_Am_Not_I_Am_Not_Varsoon

. Also, fuck the length of your name. Holy shit, typing that sucked dick.

I need to reread because I was tired last night and havent really noticed something to ping me.

re-read on page 6 what the actual fuck?

I need to reread because I was tired last night and havent really noticed something to ping me.

Ah, good

BUDDY BUDDY COACH BUDDY BUDDY

Dayvig: Dwlee

I've got one shot per day so may as well.

the faque?

Doing this Metal Sonic style.

Ohh god. Oh jesus.

NEVER CLAIM IF SHOT!
That was a reaction test and if anyone thinks he is scum you should probably rethink. Also at least 2 people in the playerlist should know who I am now.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

What the fuck mafia scum. Why have games turned into this shit?

I'd like Dwlee to confirm, but it seems almost guaranteed that he has never seen a fake dayvig gambit before, being as new as he is.

don't tell me you are going to do the meta shit to not vote someone you gut read scum. that's stupid as hell T S O.

I don't really believe that you forgot the fake dayvig that you posted about several times. You mentioned dayvigs and reaction testing several times in that game.

irrelevant, yet interesting information. I'm happy with dwelee or var2x wagons atm.

Dwlee's explanation sucks. I bought his reaction as townie because he said he'd never seen a fake dayvig before but that reaction is awful since he has seen one. And why would you immediately assume the one in that game was fake and this one was real?
VOTE: Dwlee

IT WAS A MINI NORMAL AND I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT IT UNTIL A HUNDRED POSTS LATER AND I WAS SCUM THAT GAME FFS

Damn, it must really suck to be you right now. Like, holy shit, this whole dayvig shit really backfired on you hard didn't it.

I dont like the aggressive push on dwlee. I think its over the top on a player I think is too new to be able to handle it well.

possible buddy

^an astute observation

"we lynch __ when dwlee flipa scum"
and when I flip town what are you gonna do?

shrug our shoulders because at this point we are given few options. Having you around for longer is really just going to cause us to constantly question your status as very scummy. Scum ain't gonna nk you for us. It's like having you dead just works better. Although having him around for another day probably wouldn't hurt us too much. We can still scum-hunt today if we wanted to.

I will when I'm not at school, and can access a computer.

Nobody hammer.

this.

Will you guys even look at my reads when I flip?

you have reads?

[CooLDoG]

That's an awful vote. Vote someone who's actually scummy.

it's a wonderful vote.

Will someone vote Dwlee already?

let's not try to go for shortest d1 please.

Peregrine seems to be flat-out ignoring him, CoolDog is voting NotNot for his name although he's still calling Dwlee scum, Almost is being anally penetrated by the fence he's sitting on... hurry the fuck up.

I'm not, read my posts.

Dwlee is at L-1. Hammering him at this time will be treated as a scumclaim.

this.

[CooLDoG]

2nd: I have decided Dwlee to be 3rd party but NOT a member of the main mafia group. There's NO WAY 12 or even 10 townies will agree on a lynch in the opening 24-48 hours. So it follows that 3-4 mafia are on that wagon, if not even all of them. TSO voted him then Titus (who is town to me) joined in and everybody started piling up line ants on sugar. He did make a slip (Dwlee; that is) that I can't see as an "innocent" one, but still doesn't justify the pile up on him like there was a "be won Dwlee's wagon" kind of win-con in their role PMs.

why wouldn't multi-ball be more likely?

I'D PREFER NOT TO HAVE A 200 PAGE DAY 1, PLEASE.
I'VE ALREADY SUFFERED THROUGH THAT HELL BEFORE.
IT HELPS NO ONE.
IN THESE KINDS OF GAMES, NIGHT RESULTS AND FLIPS DRIVE THE MOST WORTHWHILE DISCUSSION.
LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH
VOTE: DWLEE

WHY, JESUS!

Beeboy, you suck.

no, this whole reaction thing tell is utter bullshit. My opinion.

ALL OF THE SIGHS IN THE WORLD COULD NOT VOICE MY DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU, BEEBOY.

the caps lock makes this post. /random fluff posting.

[CooLDoG]

also, I have disgust for what is going down in this game right now. Such idiocy.

[CooLDoG]

I will get to this shit tomorrow.

[CooLDoG]

I will start reading this at exactly 10:07. Who knows when I finish it. I am going to read it though.

[CooLDoG]

And I was looking forward to playing this game over the long weekend too :/

Canadian?

I have a 4 day weekend too. o3o

lucky

why wouldn't multi-ball be more likely?

The question is "why would it?" Have we seen anything that indicates a MB game? Did your role PM mention something about it?

Assuming multi-ball w/o a valid reason only complicates matters further for me. I will assume MB when I see something that points to MB. For now I'm comfortable thinking this would be a straightforward entertaining game, so please just let me enjoy my dream while it lasts.

P.S. Are you suggesting this IS a multi-ball?

I just think it i more likely with the size of this game, and the theme (multiple factions in borderlands) that multiball is more likely than a shit ton of 3rd parties and a big scum team. Even from a set-up perspective, having a multiball would probably be more "balanced" than have 2-3 3rd parties and a smaller scum team.

For once, I agree with Always. It will become obvious whether the game is multiball in due course. Speculating about it before that point is a waste of time.

true, but I don't think looking for 3rd parties is the way to approach this game at this stage. More info is needed.

There have been multiple fake hammers this game. Which one of them came from scum, hmm?

see that's an interesting point. I could see the fake hammers going both ways. Scum wanting to cash-in on the dwelee bad at reaction tells schtik, and I can see it as town wanting more information. I think the sheer volume of these tests would lead me to think the former situation may be true in at least one case. However, my reads on the people who did this aren't strong enough yet...

I second yt's comment about t s o in 646, where it does seem that T S O wants to lynch dwelee prematurely and quickly.

I THINK IT'S FAR MORE LIKELY THAT DWLEE IS LYING RATHER THAN ACTUALLY FORGETTING.
PEOPLE FORGET STUFF LIKE PHONE NUMBERS. PEOPLE DON'T FORGET A SPECIFIC SORT OF PLAY IN A GAME THAT THEY FREQUENT.
IT'S LIKE IF I WENT AROUND JUST MAGICALLY ACTING LIKE I FORGOT WHAT A GAMBIT OR A TRUST TELL WAS.
YOU'D CALL BULLSHIT.

This is actually true. I remember shit from games YEARS ago.

I just think you are lynch bait <3 I will protect you from the evil scum.

LINES LIKE THIS DON'T GIVE ME ANY CONFIDENCE IN YOU, BEEBOY

Literally people are just using him as lynch bait right now, it is the truth.

partially true. His lie is a serious problem. His reaction was sorta bad, but in all honesty I am of the opinion that fake-vigs are stupid gambits that lead to nothing. I can see why a townie would be motivated to lynch dwelee. Just the fact that there are so many questions raised by his responses... Also, SO many associations he has now after that shit went down. His flip gives us a lot of information and isn't a bad d1 lynch. With that said, I still think this day could go on longer, more reads could be formulated.

BECAUSE HUMAN ERROR IS A FUCKING GARBAGE DEFENSE MADE BY WEAK PLAYERS, BEEBOY.
IF YOU LET EVERY SINGLE PERSON OFF ON THE 'HUMAN ERROR' DEFENSE, YOU'LL NEVER CATCH SCUM.

true when generalized, false in particular cases.

VOTE: SirCakez

I don't understand this vote, elaborate please. I'm interested in it.

Beeboy you're trying to shut down this wagon, but you're offering no alternatives. Should we all just sit around on our votes doing nothing?

^wants to end the day asap

Since beeboy isn't proposing a better target, allow me.

VOTE: beeboy

His derail is ignoring all new information. (snip)

Ironically, he's making me rethink Dwlee, but only because his white-knighting is so atrocious here. More likely that it's multiball and he thinks Dwlee is town.

Odd, because all of the not-dwelee votes constitute a similar derail. Also, ehh on the second point. Due to the size of the game, defending other players probably means less than you would think. Especially before a flip.

How the fuck am I supposed to find scum if everyone scum reading me is genuineky scum reading me because of multiballs.

People aren't scum reading you because of multi-balls. If there is a multi-ball scum from the toher team are going to pile onto you in order to get an easy lynch through. It may not be authentic so much as pragmatically the best play.

HOW THE HELL HAVE WE COME TO THE CONCLUSION WE ARE IN A MULTI BALL I AM SO CONFUSED.

*looks at game size*

@Rob: This seems like town Varsoon if a bit louder than usual to me. Why do the caps bother you so much?

this guy might as well not be in the game. Post more content or get pressured by votes.

more recent analysis to come.

[CooLDoG]

You're quoting random shit and then posting images that make no sense. I've got nothing out of the me-wall, Titus. Anyone know what she's saying?

titus' posts are easy to understand. If you develop a scum read on titus for it then that would be sketch as hell. Vagueness =/= scmminess. I have seen town flip way too often when posts in that style are made. Scum don't got the balls for it.

Yo guys, want to do something nuts and just quicklynch Varsoon? I have no legit reasons for wanting to do that other than that seeming like the most likely of my town reads to be wrong, but idk. If no-one's hammering Dwlee, let's just mix it up. Maybe generate some of that patented #content(tm)(copyright) while we wait for the last slot to chime in in another 3 days or so.

^bad posting. Attempts to derail when it is obvious who we are actually going to lynch. Noted for after the flip.

TSO's 992 is very consistent with his previous posting, I like that.

There's a difference between me "outdebating" you and me crushing whatever argument you're trying to make because you haven't engaged with/don't understand mine at all. Sorry, but that's the way things are.

You have never interacted with me so I don't how you can claim I am being crushed by you. Stop trying to take credit for Varsoons posts.

This post shows you clearly haven't read the game and I admire the fortitude of the people who didn't give up on you as a lost case immediately after this post.

How? I said he forgot about the game you linked please elaborate on this.

In all seriousnesss, though, I'd still prefer Dwlee over beeboy, though beeboy is also a lying scumfuck who clearly has no idea what he's saying either.

How have I lied and how am I scum?

Honestly your last few posts (Outside your points on Dwlee) are fluffy, vague or don't drive the game forward. Your claims don't make sense I don't understand why you thought no one would call you out on them.

VOTE: T S O

This is a pure vote out of resentment. T S O's play hasn't changed for a while, his focus has only broadened slightly. Don't really like beeboy. He makes a lot of post that don't say that much as well.

It's getting to the point where I want a flip. This day has gone on long enough, and most lurkers have actually done stuff.

Stop trying to rush a wagon before a player joined the game.

the wagon really isn't rushed at this point considering how many pages this wagon has been sustained. I am still not in favor of ending the day at this point, but the wagon for sure isn't rushed at this point. It HAS been quite irradic with bullshit hammers.

Cause bahhhhing is more likely to catch scum.

Not sure if VI or scum anymore. Still worth lynching for sure though.

Debunked. Funny word to use once I flip fucking town and you realize it isnt fucking debunked.

in all honesty once you flip people will stop talking about what you said and instead talk about what people said about you.

Say it was obviously a lie after I flip town. You all piss me off.

Bad news, even if you are town VT, you've gone from useful/helpful to a distraction. If you are somehow not lynched today, you will be vigged because having you around in later days will be detrimental to town.

^ 100% this.

Constant yelling, with the occasional interlude of you forgetting about dishes in your kitchen, without ever actually addressing the points that have been concisely made against you, is very poor scumplay and I'm disappointed in you for thinking it would work, Dwlee.

VOTE: Dwlee
Youre gonna look like a fucking dumbass when I flip town.

Once I die I am going to multiquote every time someone said I was aid I mist definitely wasnt town like you just did, rob. I am them putting them all in google docs and once the game ends I am postjg a huge wall of that.

No one cares. You are the d1 lynch, it happens. Also, give us scum reads not I hate U reads.

^wants to end the day asap

How does me asking Beeboy for an alternative wagon equate to wanting to end the day early?

It's pretty goddamn obvious when you look at the implication underwriting that post. You think the only plausible way this day is going to end is with a dwelee lynch. Starting the ball moving on a de-rail will mean your votes are "useless" because they don't achieve that end. Thus, the only good action in your mind is the keep your votes on dwelee. You discount the fact that wagons take time to build and taking a vote off of Dwelee is the start of the formation of alternative wagons. /my 10 cents. Also, I don't like your posts for some reason. Might just be stylistic scum pings, aka, gut.

What questions? I've seen no questions asked to me from you.

TSO is dodging everyone's questions (including yours to his) is what I meant.

he isn't, this is dumb, my honest opinion. Didn't pargrin make an okay post about why tso isn't the best? That's a better line to take if you think tso is scum.

[CooLDoG]

also, if you are looking to have a back-and-forth interaction with me, you should probably hit me up right after I make one of these wall-ish posts. That's when I'm online and down to chill.

[CooLDoG]

It's pretty goddamn obvious when you look at the implication underwriting that post. You think the only plausible way this day is going to end is with a dwelee lynch. Starting the ball moving on a de-rail will mean your votes are "useless" because they don't achieve that end. Thus, the only good action in your mind is the keep your votes on dwelee. You discount the fact that wagons take time to build and taking a vote off of Dwelee is the start of the formation of alternative wagons. /my 10 cents. Also, I don't like your posts for some reason. Might just be stylistic scum pings, aka, gut.

This is silly, because starting an alternative wagon is exactly what would extend the day. By asking Beeboy to back up his posts with an alternative wagon since he didn't want to lynch Dwlee, that isn't wanting to end the day quickly, it's thinking it through.

NO IT ISN'T. YOU ARE CRITIQUING HIM FOR NOT VOTING DWELEE, JESUS.

Why is it bad for you? I don't understand. This wagon is inevitable. Dwelee is going to flip either today or tomorrow. He might stick around to d3 at the latest depending on what flips during the night.... I don't know what help you asking of me either.

[CooLDoG]

Titus will this PR ever disappear so I can legitimately interact with you?

it might not. Titus may be trying out something experimental, you are just actually going to have to put effort into understanding the posts if you want to get a read. Shocker.

[CooLDoG]

I was criticizing him for not putting up an alternative to the Dwlee lynch while saying he didn't like that lynch, not for not voting Dwlee.
And yeah I can read her posts fine but she can't post more in depth stuff which is what makes it harder to interact.

*shurg* Getting your vote off of the current dominant wagon is the first step towards starting a counter wagon.

While this IS true, keep in mind this game is going to explode with a BUNCH of interesting wagons after dwelee is lynched regardless of his alignment. So much has been said about him that there will be wagons based off of interaction with him. Just be patient titus. Your d1 play is shite anyway, so just chillax for a bit.

And by multiball I mean strictly two scumteams, not a scumteam and a SK.

Not enough info yet to meaningfully talk about this.

[CooLDoG]

*shurg* Getting your vote off of the current dominant wagon is the first step towards starting a counter wagon.

This is true. That's why that post did not have the intention of quickly ending the day.

good, my boy has finally bought the first premise. Good. Now the deal is though, that by saying that that vote was bad, implicitly you are saying that vote should have been kept on dwelee until an alternative could be found, this would obviously work towards ending the day quicker because it would mean the dwelee wagon is closer to lynch, thus, implicit in your post is a desire to end the day quickly. Stop denying it, you want to hit d2.

Oh, definitely not. If we get another 12 person wagon arise out of nowhere I will do my best to break that shit up. We can't let this happen two days in row barring guilty cop result... Although that could spiral quite easily into d3...

[CooLDoG]

ebwop: should be unvote, not vote, whatever cakez, you get my point. You can't preach to criticize a particular voting pattern on one side and reject the implications of keeping a vote the way it is on the other.

[CooLDoG]

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and dropping random votes on strong town like TSO.

I'm not willing to say that TSO is strong town. Vocal =/= townie.

[CooLDoG]

Rob who else is scum besides Dwlee and Beeboy? You're spinning your tires in the sand on them.

This is why we need a flip. Who's scum will depend on the flip.

not sure if will be so clear cut as this, but there definitely will be a lot of interesting posts made in the wake of the flip for sure. Also, we still have 12 days. I know there is a current "manic-meta" where people post as much as bunnies fuck, but still, we have the time to think through what's going down d2 if we wanted to.

good, my boy has finally bought the first premise. Good. Now the deal is though, that by saying that that vote was bad, implicitly you are saying that vote should have been kept on dwelee until an alternative could be found, this would obviously work towards ending the day quicker because it would mean the dwelee wagon is closer to lynch, thus, implicit in your post is a desire to end the day quickly. Stop denying it, you want to hit d2.

OK this I can understand. Yes I want Dwlee lynched and want more votes on him. Today will only end in a Dwlee lynch. But no, I do not want the day ended quickly. That was not the intention of that post at all. I can see how you're thinking it was now, but it wasn't.

chill, I guess. Still don't like cakez for indescribable reasons. I might do an iso, depends how I feel and how many drugs are introduced into my system later today.

[CooLDoG]

Peregrine - his defense of Dwlee was very awkward, he didn't offer up an alternative wagon then started flailing and

dropping random votes on

strong town like

TSO.

Kant want's his categorical imperative back.

[CooLDoG]

If anything per has been the most town player in this goddamn game, and his suspicion of TSO is somewhat warranted. I'm not willing to go past null in either direction on him.

Btw, you mentioned something about me scumreading Titus, Cooldog? I've had a constant strong townread on that slot, so idk where you got that. I was confused by one of her posts a while back, but that obviously =/= scum.

I believe I was saying something along the lines of you not liking the style of titus' posts being dumb, and that if you wanted to get a read you are going to have to put effort. I don't really remember, and it wasn't entirely that important.

so who is everyone lynching when I flip town?

depends on what the n1 results are, depends on d2 conversation. Again, you getting the rope is going to blow this game up tomorrow, I don't think any of us are sure of what's going to happen.

[CooLDoG]

to answer more directly dwelee, my initial attention would be towards: beeboy, T S O, and kakes, maybe rob. No particular order, all very subject to change, reference last post.

[CooLDoG]

oh, and wrgurts, still got bad vibes, not as much.

[CooLDoG]

I'm actually getting to the point where I would be comfortable with Dwelee getting lynched soon-ish. I want to see a few things play out first though. I'm interested to see when the catch-up people get current.

[CooLDoG]

also, didn't people think yt was bad for some reason a while back? What ever happened with that? I think I missed something there...

[CooLDoG]

^the nero post above me is of poor quality.

ohh, that's probably why I missed it, I glaze over nonsensical theory bullshit sometimes.

[CooLDoG]

the nero post above me is of poor quality.

how so?

It's just a post that says nothing. It contributes nothing. 24 hours from now we will forget that post exists. That type of post looks good, but is shitty. I might go for this,

vote: nero chain

......^ what my next post would normally be...

I only vote for these types of things if the person responds, if they don't that means they don't give a fuck, which would be a normal town response. But scum wanna defeat attacks on them. I've done this in several games recently, has worked well. *shrug* I'm dropping some of my meta now that people don't catch onto for meta reasons... I might link to this posting sequence is future games to show people what I mean...

The types of posts I go for are like Nero's. I don't think this would work on a post similar to Elyse's because the only response I would get would be a "fuck you" if anything. elyse won't care enough to engage me, she will get to a point where she will ignore me. But Nero's post takes no strong stances, is very non-committal in nature, and thus looks like a scum fluff post. So then you call out that post and see if they want to defend it. If it really was just a pure catch-up post the wouldn't care to defend it because my insult is absurd. But if an attempt is made to defend it, or a desire to discuss arises, that's very weird for town. So to see if this has any legs, you vote that person and put them under "pressure" to make them start wondering what I'm on about. Then a bullshit defense is normally posted, and then because other people start noticing a pattern too it starts to get really hairy and maybe a wagon forms...

/end random theory bullshit you should ignore.

[CooLDoG]

tl;dr, CooLDoG has this random scum tell he has been working on, Nero fit into that mold, thus CooLDoG believes Nero is scummy.

Out of interest though, I would like nero to respond to the line after the quote above.

[CooLDoG]

yeah, but nero doesn't respond, because he lurks, so he slips under the radar, and then he pops up when you are critical. I USED to state this explicitly, but people didn't buy it.

[CooLDoG]

^ yeah, I figured this particular response. But I spilled the beans, so it won't work now, carry on as normal.

@dwelee, I've found that there is a particular set of posts that people make when I provoke them in a particular way. I find this particular set of posts (like Nero's) to be scummy.

[CooLDoG]

also, part of the tell is to respond aggressively when engaged when previous posts were passive. It's the transition from passive to very active that I find scummy.

[CooLDoG]

@dwelee, I spelled it out. More explicitly.

1) identify passive/non-comital post
2) Check to see if person posts infrequently
3) if y, call out most recent post as bad
4) wait for response.
5a) if response is apathetic, don't vote
5b) if response invested and engaged, vote.
6) wait for response, by the response you can tell (passive to active and non-committal to aggressive are scummy signs).

Even when I told nero this, he still went all the way through this sequence.

[CooLDoG]

Again, it is less of a tell per-say, but more of a means to reach a tell.

[CooLDoG]

this is very damned if I do damned if I don't.

not really. It sometimes doesn't work out, mostly if you are town. Again, it depends how you deal with my vote. There is a SERIOUS tonal shift between the post I called out and your responses to me. That doesn't vibe townie.

[CooLDoG]

yeah sure, but they contribute nothing to the game at all. Those posts are regardless.

I mean, yeah, for the mean-time let's like, idk, at least get some interaction going. I don't know, make use of the fact we have a lot of time on our hands. But I probably wouldn't push you going into d2 because of the scenario with the Dwelee flip, that's why I am spilling the beans early and explicitly in this game because it won't be as significant.

[CooLDoG]

NEVER CLAIM IF SHOT!
That was a reaction test and if anyone thinks he is scum you should probably rethink. Also at least 2 people in the playerlist should know who I am now.

The tone of this looks more like "coaching" than condemming. Not scum coaching scum but kind of how an IC would run a newbie. It implies that a claim like this was expected for or hoped. I would expect more of an "are you fucking kidding me" reaction from town after a dayvig gambit.

^why I voted the way I did.

[CooLDoG]

@elyse, with the dwelee thing going down, probably not. Also if I anounce a wagon is going to happen it probably won't happen... But if Dwelee didn't happen for sure yes.

@titus, you know are reads are reads sometimes we have polar opposite reads. But if you want me to vote for dwelee I wouldn't mind it.

[CooLDoG]

?

[CooLDoG]

I mean yeah dwelee, I'm not sure, are you guys good for today, I mean, we could end this sooner rather than later if you want to. I'm not opposed to it.

[CooLDoG]

maybe, idk, depends on what happens tomorrow.

[CooLDoG]

laying down the truth

[CooLDoG]

I can see how that could be seens as a slip

[CooLDoG]

I approve of this. I was going to vote dwelee if you guys didn't. This day needs to end. See you on the other side of the night.

[CooLDoG]

mother of god this game explodes like crazy. reading...

[CooLDoG]

This isn't very coherent at all. Come again?

Are you referring to the 1, 2, 3 point system?

Yes. The consensus lynch system seems very anti-town. Also informs scum what the safest wagon to hop onto is.

the only good post I have read so far.

Im not getting lynched because plain and simple Im too good of a player to get roped.

I havent read D1. maybe Ill get the motivation to later but I hope somebody has some juicy results on TSO.

this post and others like it make pisskop look contrived. No one would ever be so brazen as to actually not read d1.

And no, I do not think a commuter should claim to verify that story. That actually sounds like a pretty decent scum ability, so it's possible she isn't lying about the ability itself.

wait, then why the vote?

I don't like pisskop's slot. He's either actually defiant or faking defiance of a town that doesn't care if he dies, but he comes off as fake to me. It's the timing of his comments, and how they match the pressure on him, or lack thereof. I don't feel like obtuse town would switch their schtick from scum to doctor, it undercuts the irony, and that makes it seem more forced

I agree with his post. I have noticed the same thing.

I would like anyone who

doesn't

buy the guilty result on me to explain why the hell scum-Rob would claim a guilty on me, when all it'd do is probably get him lynched the next day. And ya it could have been a legit guilty even if he is scum here, but if he was scum, with an info role and got a guilty, why would he openly post it and basically tell the other scum team to shoot him?

the only reason a scum aligned cop would do that is if he thought he could wifom out of a kill for a few nights via a doctor protect, I guess that's chill, but it isn't sustainable in the long term. So yeah, I'm pretty sure rob's claim is coming from town. If not, my hat is off to you for having balls of steel, rob.

What is difficult about the situation to grasp? What are you doing?

this.

Maybe I should vote I don't know ;-;-;-;-;-;-; I am so confused I will read later.

Rob is scum so I shouldn't believe his guilty but it is so early it doesn't make sense. ;_;

early.... game is 80 pages bro.

So I just remembered to actually check my PMs and read what my night action result was.

Nicole Mimi, claim now. If not, you're getting quick-lynched. I have an incriminating result, but I'm not going to say what type so that the counter-claim cannot be tailored. I want a full claim - name, role, and who you targeted last night, including result of said action.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FOR A SINGLE FUCKING SECOND

YOU MEANT TO TELL ME

THAT YOU HAVE A NIGHT ACTION

AND YOU JUST FUCKING "FORGOT" AN INCRIMINATING RESULT?

nu-uh

vote: rob

Then there's also the fact that I have reason to believe Mimi's version of the claim.

This counter argument is not untrue. It wouldn't make sense for a person not to check their info before posting, and how could you forget, it was like what, 2 days of a night phase. I like this argument... need to think more when not hung-over.

Rob went so balls to the wall to tryign to allure his role without claiming that I think he should just claim at this point because if he's town he's fucking dead anyways.

I will say the mechanics behind this 100% guilty are quite vague. Especially considering that he can't be redirected.... which you think he would be for a cop type role.

That is a gutsy ploy if Rob is scum...

this is also true. Unless scum have a doc, which would be absurd.

Rob went so balls to the wall to tryign to allure his role without claiming that I think he should just claim at this point because if he's town he's fucking dead anyways.

After I claim a guilty and get a scum lynched, I'm dead no matter what, but I'm playing under the assumption I'll live until tomorrow. If I die, it won't have mattered anyway - you'll see with my flip. If I live, then it will be beneficial.

Blatant role fishing so you can better counter-claim to my results.

the problem is that Rob's positions are internally consistent. they make sense from what he has said in the past...

If you think Rob is scum who has decided to Guilty Nicole then you should still be voting Nicole.

this is correct.

If Nicole flips town Rob goes straight to the rope. This would be a suicidal scum gambit that I see no purpose for.

the only question is if rob is a scum investigator at that point.

more to come with definitive read list. Let me do some bullshit irl first.

[CooLDoG]

You can only vote for me or pisskop.

vote: wgeurts

an idiotic gladiate. The problem is though that I think pisskop is more scummy. I want to punish this behavior though because it is anti-town as fuck given our current situation. SO yeah, eat rope for being a dumbass. I mean, this gladiate is so anti-town it makes me think this is scum trying to save a caught teammate.

What the fuck is gladiate and will the mod tell us if it's legit?

*shrug* with so much random reaction tells in this game you can't tell.

It's absolutely WIFOM for you to high effort it and then claim only town you would do that, since you were already planning your defense when you decided to high effort it.

I mean, yeah, obviously. We should be lynching her. That's the best play. I guess we aren't though.

Guys you don't seem to understand, the mod will reset all votes and only let you vote me or piss in the next VC. Anyway I'm cycling home so I'll post that readwall I promised later.

We were at l-1 for a lynch and you do this. Why?

It is legitimate.
And as I said we should vig Nicole.

fair... I guess. If we have a vig. But you are honestly letting a potential sk/scum member ride a fake claim hard with this plan. When is the last time you have seen an every night vig? I mean, maybe we have an odd night and an even night vig that are both together, not outside the realm of possibility. Whatever, this action is fucked up and adds a lot of unnecessary wifom that we didn't need d2.

Gladiate is a gambit and it's not a good one. What kind of idiot would Gladiate someone when we have a claimed Guilty? Stop getting distracted.

this, 100%

Wouldn't a secret miller be considered bastard?

why are you still talking about what to do with this goddamn guilty? Do the actual reasonable thing and lynch the goddamn person with the fucking guilty like a normal ass person would. If you are town, you SERIOUSLY need to brush up on how to deal with mechanically induced game states.

Oh noes I gotta jail Mimi because everyone is saying they want vigs to shoot at her.

this had better not be serious.

[CooLDoG]

Also CoolDog I got given this role so I'm going to use it. Punish me all you want. But lynching town isn't helping anyone.

Then at least do the counter-intuitive play and lynch rob! JESUS, like, we HAVE A GUILTY FROM WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A CLAIMED COP OR A BROKEN GAME.

Wgeurts what does unsettle me is that you think you have the towncred to pull this gladiator thing off and get away with it. Furthermore, we had a practically confirmed scum, and you prioritizing pisskop is odd.

My question is why not talk it over in the thread prior to doing it given that it's irrevocable? I didn't really like this decision. Hence, why I'm reluctant to vote pisskop right away.

this post illustrates a divide in the town. Who thinks mita or whatever is town? Who thinks scum? I think scum...

Roping you is prbs the right mover here, but dont pretend that because I dont follow the mob mentality that Im scummy. thats ass. weaksauce ass

I mean, of course that's the right move from your perspective.

Scum jailkeeper makes a surprise amount of sense in a setup with at least three kills.

this is correct though.

But seriously if you protect someone with a claimed GUILTY on them, you're going down, hard.

also this

[CooLDoG]

I'm not confident at all of pisskop is flipping scum but it's prolly a better shot than wguerts being scum.

this post is scummy if pisskop is scum.

[CooLDoG]

don't lynch this guy till I get back from work tonight, but actually though.

vote: pisskop

[CooLDoG]

don't lynch this guy till I get back from work tonight, but actually though.

vote: pisskop

What do you think of wgeurts?

you weren't rolefishing. I just meant that I'm not going to answer it for now in the interest of concealing role-related info

Then why did you file it under rolefishing? That's a direct contradiction.

In reality I voted wrgurts to get reactions to a counter wagon. Like, pisskop is so much more scummy. I was eventually going to vote for him later on, I just wanted to get more discussion going. I also have reason to disbelieve pisskop's claim. I don't buy it. That role reeks of a fake claim or some contrived bullshit. Plus, what would wrgurt's scum motivation be for doing this? it doesn't work out.

The only reason I could see scum wrgruts doing this is if he is buds with mimi and her role is something that they really need tonight, that would thus making saving her for one more night worth it. But this post refutes that:

Vote: wgeurts

I don't want to lynch pisskop. I hope to fuck you all don't make me actually get off my ass as a false-guiltied player and derail this.

alright, the only other notable post was this one:

Is there anyone who is voting wguerts for pisskop's claim? There shouldn't be. He's obviously lying and I don't understand why I'm the only one pointing this out.

this 100%

I agree that as either alignment it's a subpar play. But I cannot, cannot, cannot imagine wguerts doing it as scum. As town, maybe. Somehow he twisted the idea in his head until it made sense. But not as scum.

this is the hardest core defense of wrgurts possible. If he flips scum, TSO goes.

[CooLDoG]

@grapes, a bit. I wanted to close off the only possibility for wrguts to do what he did as scum in my mind. I wanted to block that part out, so structurally it didn't work out... If you are paying attention to my posting style it always quotes in strict chronological order. This was the first post I have made in a long time that doesn't do that.

I don't see wrgurts as scum. I don't see why he would do what he did if he was a scum gladiate. I can see pisskop as having a chance at being scum and I think it is worth the risk of killing a weirdly restricted doctor.

[CooLDoG]

Like I can buy you switching up votes for reactions I guess? But that hardly jives with your quip at the end saying wgeurts and tso are scum together.

I'm saying that if I am wrong, and wrgurts is in fact scum, which is a possibility, that TSO would be very much implicated by that flip. I mean, I threw that out there so people would start looking at that interaction now instead of popping it out of nowhere later...

[CooLDoG]

Especially when you made a defense of wgeurts too with about the same firmness of what you quoted from tso.

I mean yes, but in a different way. TSO doesn't want wrgurts lynched. I am not too concerned if he get's lynched over pisskop because in reality he did a shitty thing and after that he will become a non-entity that no one would take seriously. And we would potentially be wasting a power role action on him to determine alignment like others have mentioned. I don't know. I am going back and forth between which lynch is correct by a who's more likely to be scum perspective and what is the best lynch from a mechanical/game perspective.

[CooLDoG]

So what changed your mind on wgeurts then? He was a scumread for you since pretty early game and I liked your reasons.

Did his wall of confbias on pisskop sway you?

Or how about the wall reads on like 3 people then bouncing from the thread? Those did look pretty nice.

alright ass hole, you wanna do this? okay.

1) that his gladiate could not come from the perspective of a scum player
2) my reasons were tentative of getting more content from him. He wasn't posting much.
3) I have a life and am not glued to my computer screen to talk with you fucks 24/7 so I do the best that I can. I am normally booked solid from 8-2ish and then after that from 5-10. So you get the picture. I can't play chat mafia with you guys. If you would maybe think about if your posts were filler (most posts in this game) or if they actually held information then the game's pace would match my posting.

so, tldr, go to hell, you are wrong, and your reasons are bad.

[CooLDoG]

mechanically if you think im a protective role you shouldnt be trying to kill me if you have no preference. at least if you subsvirbe to the idea that the more town controlled kills the better

I think the people with no preference but actually look like they have a preference look pretty bad rn don't ya think?

not really. I think some people just try to find the best way to approach certain situations and thus come to an indifferent conclusion...

[CooLDoG]

it may be lazy but that doesn't make it untrue.
don't you get it. All of my posts are catch-up posts that point out all the interesting posts. I don't have time to do otherwise.

[CooLDoG]

I mean yeah, that's the main problem. It is mega anti-town but it might not be scummy...

[CooLDoG]

^god, we need to kill almost at some point.

I mean, if he gladiates again we will have another shot at killing him.
@wrgurts, will you use your gladiate tomorrow? If he doesn't then I am pretty sure a pisskop lynch is the better play... idk, this game is quickly becoming a mind fuck where we don't have enough lynches to do what we want to do.

[CooLDoG]

and suprise - hes already done more damage to the game than most scum could ever in one day.


You have no reason to take the road

'well we know wgeurts is fuckawful town but maybe theres a 1 in 10 chance pk is scum because hes not begging us to live'

this is ironically your best argument yet.

it actually is though

what part of your role indicates we have the option to NL?

vote No Lynch

Dig the sauce, its stronger than youll ever have. vc show us nl

I don't know, is a nl the play? Maybe it is. need to think about it.

Heh, if we no lynch I'll just Gladiate you tomorrow.
No, you're going to die today or I am.

oh, this guy.

The fact that wrgurts is actually going to gladiate tomorrow if we nl makes me want to lynch him. What a moron.

[CooLDoG]

I am procrastinating too much on this fucking game.

[CooLDoG]

Why are you listening to Nicole at all?

this, what is the point?

K, TSO is scum. Add that to the list of things I need to accomplish.

I'm prertty sure that anyone who is making the right play here by wanting to lynch you is scum.

Damn I completely forgot about Nero. Yeah he needs to get in here and start doing stuff. I can't remember any of his posts.

he only comes out of the woodwork if you attack him. I'd try that. But I agree, we shouldn't let nero slip under the radar without getting some pressure on him at some point during this game.

Geez you're trilingual?

It do not use my Italian much anymore, it would be sloppy at best. Perhaps sound broken. Back to the game though, otherwise I will get off topic.

nice, we should talk sometime. My Italian is similarly horrible, but passable.

So there are several problems with the idea of "not claiming until massclaim/absolutely 100% necessary" that most players have a tendency to overlook,

this is a long ass post used to justify this statement. Which is a role fish. Wtf? Why are people listing to mimi?

DOES ANYONE IN THIS GAME KNOW OF MY EXTREME AVERSION TO PLAYING SCUM?

no, and no one cares. you re getting lynched, sorry. wrgurts gladiating to save mimi seems more likely to me now seeing as once pressure goes onto gurts mimi start fearing for her survival... I might be wrong on this though, more speculative.

Nicole - you're basically throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Rob. You're saying he's misrepresenting, ignoring things, making terrible arguments but you still think he's town? This doesn't add up at all to me.

this.

Here's my current "town block" so to speak. The adjectives do not represent the degree of certainty, but rather refer to their play so far.

wgeurts (bad town)
Rob (better town)
Venmar (alright town)
SirCakez (awful town)
Peregrine (best town)
CoolDoG (town enough)

YT + Nero are on the 2nd level town (i.e. both strongly leaning town). Hell, even TSO's play today has me wondering, and he has jumped up a few notches, so not in my top 4 suspects list.

even his reads lists are puzzling as hell. I have never seen a town gradiant reads list before.

Question for everyone in the thread:

1. Do you think Nicole is scum?
2. Do you really think wgeurts is scum with Nicole?

I guess it is multiball, but even a 50% drop in chances is precipitous

1, yes
2, maybe. I am being persuaded in this direction.


more later...

[CooLDoG]

vote: nicole mimi tithel

[CooLDoG]

also, obv multi-ball + sk, is obv.

[CooLDoG]

scum: mimi, beeboy, sirkaykes, grapes, yt in that order.

[CooLDoG]

ohh, also throw nero in there as well. If we lynch these people we will win the game. Nice, let's do that.