BLOODBORNE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Irrational]

I think RVS is stupid so I won't be participating, but A50's reason for not participating is a bit paranoid, at this stage. We're looking at a threshold of 12 to lynch(Also, so, Patches the Spider. Did nobody else notice that there's an extra player in the game? Any thoughts beyond the obvious but potentially misleading one?), and all the things that we are *aware of* that involve large numbers of votes require time and echoes to purchase. This isn't the time to worry about it so much I don't think. I mean, there is a lot of stuff to be concerned about, sure, but...honestly...this is Bloodborne.

Get some on your hands. No fear. The only way to get those precious echoes is to lynch and kill.

@Varsoon: What happens if the current master of the hunt is lynched? It's my understanding that KC and company will be attempting the Pthumeru Chalice tonight. So...if she were lynched...or day killed, or something...what would happen? Do they still attempt the chalice dungeon? Does someone else become capable of making the choices needed for the hunt to continue?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spider Vote: Hastur and Muriel

Get hyped!

-SC

Spider Vote: Hastur and Muriel

Get hyped!

-SC

Why pull this out now?

Because of what happens when we don't pull that out
To demonstrate
VOTE: Hastur and Muriel

Now wait for a VC

-SC

This particular move is fairly townie. We just came out of a game where we knew someone didn't have a vote, so it wouldn't have been unreasonable for them to simply show they didn't have one, but revealing a unique vote tag to add the vote is good for town to know of. Thinking about it though, I guess it's not as big a deal as if the owner of the vote weren't outed when they used it since it's public, but scum could have gained a good amount of town cred by pretending to be voteless(since why would scum ever be unable to vote? blah blah).

-Cerb

pedit: Thank you Varsoon.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Did nobody else notice that there's an extra player in the game?

I did, but I didn't think much of it. I was trying to figure our what "Spider" does (looked it up on the bloodbourne wiki, but I found no "weapon").

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/P ... the+Spider

Google-fu.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Did nobody else notice that there's an extra player in the game?

I did, but I didn't think much of it. I was trying to figure our what "Spider" does (looked it up on the bloodbourne wiki, but I found no "weapon").

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/P ... the+Spider

Google-fu.

Sorry, didn't sign.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Nice to meet ya.

Yo KC, why you going so small? Don't you want to attempt a chalice dungeon worth attempting? ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spider Vote: Hastur and Muriel

Get hyped!

-SC

Why pull this out now?

Because of what happens when we don't pull that out
To demonstrate
VOTE: Hastur and Muriel

Now wait for a VC

-SC

Our normal vote doesn't work but the Spider vote is a substitute.

-SC

VOTE: Zulfy

I had the intention of voting random(idget) with the reason being it's a "random" vote. Seeing he already had been voted twice though I chickened. I read something in the frequently asked questions that made me second think the whole process of "random voting" and/or even "voting for pressure". the thing I'm referring to is someone with "bolt" could count for 5 votes all by their own. That combined with the game I've just finished (with many of those involved in this game) that had double voting mechanics, vote stealing mechanics and threshold messing mechanics ... *Shrug* I just didn't want to take a chance this early into the game (at least not until I know what I'm doing in the first place).

VOTE: Toogeloo

Nice to meet ya.

Yo KC, why you going so small? Don't you want to attempt a chalice dungeon worth attempting? ^^

-Cerb

I was going to go all out, but this early in the game the Hunting Party may not have the necessary tools to win the bigger challenges. I have no idea what to expect in the Chalice Dungeon, so better safe and wussy than sorry.

Oh sweet look at all these town
This games gonna be easy peasy lemon squeezy


So, cerb and drixx as Reasonably Rational have had a longstanding tradition of avoiding rvs, of basically never voting day 1, not voting until they're absolute certain that they've found scum.

Lets go ahead and ruin that without his permission

VOTE: Randomidget

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh in case it wasn't obvious ^ is Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

VOTE: RI

What's got your knickers in a twist newfriend?

[VOTE: Almost50

But why? I liked his caution here.

Arg!
In a normal game, I'd be claiming, but Varsoon specifically warned us against doing that. :/

Just...keep it in mind.

If you're a miller or some such ridiculous negative town utility you should claim. Otherwise Ima shutup about it and so should we all, I guess

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh good lord
That was me again, Elbirn

Also zulfy ily thanks

[Reasonably Irrational]

{D&D}
{Mixed 6}
{Sensei, Nahdia, Zulfy}
{Fire Assassin, Toogeloo, Almost50}
{Shinobi}
One.

Disappointed.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I had the intention of voting random(idget) with the reason being it's a "random" vote. Seeing he already had been voted twice though I chickened. I read something in the frequently asked questions that made me second think the whole process of "random voting" and/or even "voting for pressure". the thing I'm referring to is someone with "bolt" could count for 5 votes all by their own. That combined with the game I've just finished (with many of those involved in this game) that had double voting mechanics, vote stealing mechanics and threshold messing mechanics ... *Shrug* I just didn't want to take a chance this early into the game (at least not until I know what I'm doing in the first place).

VOTE: Almost50

This vote seems sort of unprompted to me. Why?

Arg!
In a normal game, I'd be claiming, but Varsoon specifically warned us against doing that. :/

Just...keep it in mind.

I don't like this post - it's generic albeit useless advice made to appear helpful when it isn't.
VOTE: ranger

I'd like you, Shinobi, to compare and contrast your own vote with that of Nahdia. Why is yours okay, while her vote is "weak, and generic, IE the type of thing mafia would come up with."?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

i'm not going to pour my heart into analysis of literally A50's first post. it was fake sounded so i placed a vote there. step OFF, lamer.

Why not? I mean, it clearly meant *something* to you. You should be able to articulate that thing.

I'm town on it. It does seem a bit contrived, but if you take it at face value, it's reasonably townie.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

i'm not going to pour my heart into analysis of literally A50's first post. it was fake sounded so i placed a vote there. step OFF, lamer.

Why not? I mean, it clearly meant *something* to you. You should be able to articulate that thing.

I'm town on it. It does seem a bit contrived, but if you take it at face value, it's reasonably townie.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

i'm not going to pour my heart into analysis of literally A50's first post. it was fake sounded so i placed a vote there. step OFF, lamer.

Why not? I mean, it clearly meant *something* to you. You should be able to articulate that thing.

I'm TORN on it. It does seem a bit contrived, but if you take it at face value, it's reasonably townie.

-Cerb

EBWOP.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I had the intention of voting random(idget) with the reason being it's a "random" vote. Seeing he already had been voted twice though I chickened. I read something in the frequently asked questions that made me second think the whole process of "random voting" and/or even "voting for pressure". the thing I'm referring to is someone with "bolt" could count for 5 votes all by their own. That combined with the game I've just finished (with many of those involved in this game) that had double voting mechanics, vote stealing mechanics and threshold messing mechanics ... *Shrug* I just didn't want to take a chance this early into the game (at least not until I know what I'm doing in the first place).

VOTE: Almost50

This vote seems sort of unprompted to me. Why?

Arg!
In a normal game, I'd be claiming, but Varsoon specifically warned us against doing that. :/

Just...keep it in mind.

I don't like this post - it's generic albeit useless advice made to appear helpful when it isn't.
VOTE: ranger

I'd like you, Shinobi, to compare and contrast your own vote with that of Nahdia. Why is yours okay, while her vote is "weak, and generic, IE the type of thing mafia would come up with."?

-Cerb

I felt like mine was adequately explained - Ranger said some generic nothings and had an opening that I would think mafia would make, since the whole point of being mafia is to look helpful when you aren't.
Nahdia just said "almost's post looks fake and overly paranoid" which is just a bunch of buzzwords and doesn't really explain anything.

Do you agree or disagree with my assessment?

Actual, Shinobi, now that I look at Rangers post again...yours is kinda shit. I think she said volumes with that post. Unless you're trying to say she's advising us all to not claim, which ISN'T what she's doing. What she's doing is telling us to, based on any previous experiences we may have had with her play, consider the sort of things she has claimed D1 in the past, and keep that in mind with regards to her slot. It's a not so subtle hint as to a NU role or asceticism or something along those lines, without any outright claim as such. Is it town? I don't know.

I do know that it's not the empty air you're making it out to be though.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, should I be on your side in this conversation? I feel like Shinobi is being dumb about both your post, and Rangers, but...idk. Not sure what my objective was when I started typing this, other than to say hi.

Talk to me about something.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Damn. Almost got it.

Shinobi, what more do you expect from Nahdia? Put yourself in her perspective. Let's say you had that position regarding A50's post, the one she presented. What more *could* you say about it, than she did, to properly communicate her sentiment regarding the slot and it's post?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Man, I hate my phrasing there, it's nonsensical. "Put yourself in her perspective." *sigh* Mixed idioms are the worst. Although it's not an idiom, but you understand. Anyways. Who else is here to talk to?

Also, I just looked "music box" on the wiki, apparently there's that is used in a couple of fights to trigger some things. I was trying to figure out if I would want it or not, because it seems completely useless, but I figure there MUST be something we can do with it.

Right?

-Cerb

pedit: But...it is OBVIOUSLY overly paranoid? 12 votes to lynch. 2 votes on almost already. No combination of known mechanics makes putting that extra vote on him significant, barring someone beginning the game with a large amount of insight/beasthood and one of the weapons tied to it, and using that power to hammer him. Though I can certainly think of ways it would be "risky" to put someone at 3/12 votes, none of them are reasonable things to be concerned with at this stage in the game.

Now, the fakeness, that's something else entirely, and not something I would expect anyone to be able to articulate without a good deal of meta experience with the other player in question.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I had the intention of voting random(idget) with the reason being it's a "random" vote. Seeing he already had been voted twice though I chickened. I read something in the frequently asked questions that made me second think the whole process of "random voting" and/or even "voting for pressure". the thing I'm referring to is someone with "bolt" could count for 5 votes all by their own. That combined with the game I've just finished (with many of those involved in this game) that had double voting mechanics, vote stealing mechanics and threshold messing mechanics ... *Shrug* I just didn't want to take a chance this early into the game (at least not until I know what I'm doing in the first place).

VOTE: Almost50

This vote seems sort of unprompted to me. Why?

Arg!
In a normal game, I'd be claiming, but Varsoon specifically warned us against doing that. :/

Just...keep it in mind.

I don't like this post - it's generic albeit useless advice made to appear helpful when it isn't.
VOTE: ranger

I'd like you, Shinobi, to compare and contrast your own vote with that of Nahdia. Why is yours okay, while her vote is "weak, and generic, IE the type of thing mafia would come up with."?

-Cerb

I felt like mine was adequately explained - Ranger said some generic nothings and had an opening that I would think mafia would make, since the whole point of being mafia is to look helpful when you aren't.
Nahdia just said "almost's post looks fake and overly paranoid" which is just a bunch of buzzwords and doesn't really explain anything.

Do you agree or disagree with my assessment?

Actual, Shinobi, now that I look at Rangers post again...yours is kinda shit. I think she said volumes with that post. Unless you're trying to say she's advising us all to not claim, which ISN'T what she's doing. What she's doing is telling us to, based on any previous experiences we may have had with her play, consider the sort of things she has claimed D1 in the past, and keep that in mind with regards to her slot. It's a not so subtle hint as to a NU role or asceticism or something along those lines, without any outright claim as such. Is it town? I don't know.

I do know that it's not the empty air you're making it out to be though.

-Cerb

I've played two games with her and she claimed super-bulletproof (and was a super-bulletproof) in one of them.
She didn't claim anything in the other one I don't think.

I don't really understand why you think this doesn't make her suspicious. Can you elaborate a bit more for me?

I don't understand why you think it's suspicious in any way. There's nothing particularly suspicious about claiming/hinting at negative utility of some sort. It would be standard to outright claim it, the mod themselves noted that outright claiming may be detrimental, so they're not...but she still wants town to have SOME idea that her slot is potentially negative in some way. So she does so, but doesn't tell us exactly how.

That all makes perfect sense to me.

-Cerb

pedit: xkfyu, it's your job to come up with the topic, if I knew what I wanted to talk about I would have asked a specific question! I mean, I guess you could comment on this whole little Nahdia/A50/Sensei/Me thing we have going on here.

R&L: I'm not really certain what would come of outright claiming the negative aspects of either your role or Rangers(assuming that's what she's hinting at). *shrug*

[Reasonably Irrational]

Disappointed.

Disappointed that I would try?
{D&D}
{Mixed 6, Reasonably Irrational, Nahdia}
{Sensei, Nahdia, Klingoncelt}
{Fire Assassin, Toogeloo, Zulfy, Xkfyu}
{Patches, Almost50}
{Shinobi}

Disappointed that I wasn't already on the list, somewhere near the top...since if you're scum, you already know I'm town, and if you're town, you should know I'm town by now.

Shinobi: Under the interpretation that you just stated, that you believed she was just making noise and not really accomplishing anything with her post, yes, her post was suspicious and scummy etc. I simply don't believe that's all there was to the post, and it's that added layer of intent that makes it a post of significance, rather than just noise.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Why is nahdia on the list twice, in three separate lists you've made?

Also, Ranger, umm, just so you know: There was nobody named Patches The Spider in the signups for this game. So...it seems likely you're looking at a proxy slot of some sort, like Bright in Suikoden.

Are you evaluating that slot as an individual, or as a proxy of a player, and saying by your placement that you believe the owner/controller of that slot is scum?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

pedit: xkfyu, it's your job to come up with the topic, if I knew what I wanted to talk about I would have asked a specific question! I mean, I guess you could comment on this whole little Nahdia/A50/Sensei/Me thing we have going on here.

Alright, here's something. I too have a negative utility (technically two, but one will likely go away relatively quickly) that would normally warrant a first-post claim, but just like Ranger, I'm also going to forego the claim. As such, I see absolutely nothing about Ranger's post that causes me any concern.

On the Almost50 stuff, I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with his posts so far. In fact, they seemed to me to be coming from a well thought out mindset.

And Nahdia seems to be her usual over reactionary self when people question her. I've played a few recent games with her, and that seems to be pretty standard for her. Though, she was town in all of those games, so I can't say that she doesn't do that as scum as well.

Interesting. Three of you so far. Bloodborne doesn't really have "good guys" per se, so a variety of negative slots isn't exactly unlikely, but it's definitely worth noting.

Regarding A50: So you found his post to be genuine? And you believe his paranoia is well founded?

Nahdia is being Nahdia, yes. I also need a game with her as scum to have any idea if it means anything. :-/

If you have any questions about the flavor of Bloodborne, just ask me, either privately or in this thread.
For many of you who are not familiar with the flavor, it should not be a mystery or huge investigation to figure out something you want to know.
Knowing the flavor may help players in this game, but only marginally.

Can you add some flavor to each quest?

You mean the Chalice Dungeons? He already said they'd be flavorful, right? Any thoughts to share? From in hydra, preferably.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

What's got your knickers in a twist newfriend?

One of the safest entrances I think I've ever seen.

OMG Senseis here! I literally got up from bed just to get to my computer to type to you!

Are you referring to my post as the "safe" one, or Elbirns?

A50: There is nothing indicating that the huntmaster vote can't be changed, as far as I can tell. In all previous Varsoon games with similar mechanics, the MC/Captain vote could be changed after it had been cast. However, this is more of that weird paranoia, and now this is actual activity that runs contrary to that. If you sincerely don't believe that this vote could be rescinded or moved, WHY would you cast it on someone so early in the day? As much as I appreciate the vote of confidence in my play, it doesn't make sense to make that vote, while attempting to appear "cautious".

-Cerb

Pedit: Fair enough XKFYU. What about his most recent post, the one I referenced above?

[Reasonably Irrational]

Mixed6: The thing with the D&D voteless issue is that in a scenario where they were scum and trying to use that for town credit, they would simply NOT utilize their vote until it was game winning to do so. Stockpile insight by doing whatever it is scum do, and use that insight to power through late game lynches with multiple votes. It would be a high risk/high reward strategy, though. As I said though(and as you said) the move itself IS quite townie, but the fact that it's so obviously townie, so much so as to be mandatory if they are actually town, does probably make it more null alignment wise than I want it to be.

What does caution in voting tell you about the player in question? You call it an experience tell. Are you saying it's something more likely to come from inexperienced players? Experienced players? Or merely those, inexperienced or not, who have in the past been placed in situations where said caution was warranted/lack of caution cost them? In short, is it an experience tell, or an EXPERIENTIAL tell?

R&L: I understand your posts, I think. I'll look at it again right now, I was sort of engaged in that whole Shinobi interaction, so I was skimming your posts a bit.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Disappointed that I wasn't already on the list, somewhere near the top...since if you're scum, you already know I'm town, and if you're town, you should know I'm town by now.

Well, you hadn't posted on the first page.

For what it's worth, you're vaguely near the top now, but I'll need more from Elbirn to be sure, not to mention, my read on you always gets better with time so the more I see from either head, really, the more sure I'll be.

Why is nahdia on the list twice, in three separate lists you've made?

Didn't notice. The higher level is the more accurate one.

So...it seems likely you're looking at a proxy slot of some sort, like Bright in Suikoden.

Well in that case, move Patches to the bottom tier. It's a scum ability.

I was evaluating it as a player (it was a scummy post), but if it's a proxy slot, auto-scum.

I don't really think my case on Ranger is good anymore but I'm struggling to find an alternative.

So...this is basically an exact replica of what Shinobi did last game. Having points that he says are in the wrong, but doing nothing about it.

Ah, true, I should have realized you had no posts to go off of on the first list. Alright, acceptable.

Please tell me more about this thing you say Shinobi is doing, and the situation you're comparing it to.

What's got your knickers in a twist newfriend?

One of the safest entrances I think I've ever seen.

OMG Senseis here! I literally got up from bed just to get to my computer to type to you!

Elbirn's.

Jumping into the game and townreading a majority of the people who have posted so far and then proceeding to rvs is safe. There's no chance to make any "enemies" when you do that.

It's supplemented by the fact that half the reads I couldn't quite see where he was coming from either.

Ah, makes sense.

Maybe I can try to clear those up?

D&D read we already explained, though Mixed6 is right in that it probably doesn't deserve as much town credit as I'd like to give it.
Zulfy=idk, Elbirn likes Zulfy though. Which isn't a good reason to townread someone, but *shrug*.
A50: We also have discussed this a bit. He liked the cautiousness(he says so a bit later on)
KC: Clearly displaying a mindset of maximizing the likelihood of a success on the first dungeon, which is a town mindset to have, but an obvious one for scum to duplicate. Probably giving too much credit there.

Any thoughts on anything else so far Sensei?

Fire Assassin: Care to elaborate on what you dislike about that post?

-Cerb

pedit: Okay, so you answered Assassin. I'm confused. What about that post strikes you as me attempting to peg someone as scum? I'm admitting that I gave too much town credit to D&D for their openness regarding their lack of a regular vote, not saying that I believe they're scum for it.

[Reasonably Irrational]

On the Almost50 stuff, I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with his posts so far. In fact, they seemed to me to be coming from a well thought out mindset.

How so?
And why does that have an affect on your read of him?

Somehow, I knew you were gonna ask me about that post, just as soon as I posted it...

Anyways, I was talking specifically about the post where he was being paranoid about putting a random vote down. His thought process, while almost certainly ill-founded, was elaborate, and I think that suggests that he's town.

Do you have a lot of experience with A50? If so, do you believe he, as scum, wouldn't both with an elaborate explanation for something as likely to be questioned as his post was? If not, why does the elaborate thought process suggest he's town?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

aw man aw man aw man

VOTE: Zulfy

Elbirn you're so great

I wouldn't mind hearing mixed6's response to your question, Sensei, but...

That's the Zulfy ISO. It seems pretty self-explanatory. I'm probably getting in your way though, so I'll just be quiet.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

On another note, it might have been lost in my longish post, but does Ranger typically post tiers like she has been?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Yes. That is her standard style. Wholly NAI.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

That's the Zulfy ISO.

You remember how he was in Saga right?

So, I just reread the beginning of his ISO in SF, then remembered when I saw the post numbers that he was a replacement. There was a massive difference between his entry into the game there and his content here though, but I don't think the two can be compared at this stage. There we were 3k posts into the game, and he started pushing ABR very quickly. Here, he's just taking up space and not attempting to accomplish anything. Is that scummy? Not really. It's not pro-town though. *shrug*

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Reasonably Irrational, for Daenerys and Dragons, again, there's a lot to gain by voting in this game in particular. It's possible scum could try to gambit around that and hope for a game ending swoop, but it seems like that would put a lot of faith in everyone buying into the only town couldn't vote argument. I don't think it's that strong a move. In the end we agree conclusion-wise so I'm not interested in wasting thread space beyond this arguing about the theory that gets us there. That doesn't help town.

For the tentative opening it could be either, but I had experience in mind in particular. Someone in an overly complex setting compared their previous experiences is more likely to drop into analysis paralysis territory. Bad experiences with a similar setting could have a potentially similar effect though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Realized I never addressed the second half of this.

A50's last game, as far as I know, which just ended, was Soccer Spirits Mafia, which was quite complex with regards to the roles, but simple compared to the overall additional mechanics added on top of the basic game of mafia which Varsoon has here. I don't know about the rest of his experience, but alright. Fair point. It could have just been AP. I take it from the most recent vote, though, that his latest post has raised some more suspicion? As it seems to have done throughout the game?

-Cerb

pedit: A50, I'm...not so sure I buy that? I'm inclined to think that, overall, it's more of a townslip than scummy behavior overall(because of the fact that scum teams are collective consciousnesses and are thus less likely to misunderstand a particular mechanic(which doesn't mean they can't DELIBERATELY townslip, but it does mean that the fundamental misunderstanding that makes the post appear to be a contradiction is more likely to come from town than scum, if genuine), but it's CERTAINLY significant that you chose to cast a vote which you believed couldn't be rescinded or moved, even if it isn't a vote to lynch.

HD: I did not notice when Patches was added. They were definitely there at the start of D1, given that the very first VC posted by Varsoon to start the day off, with the list of players and the status of everythiing, includes Patches the Spider.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I should clarify the previous post: I'm uncertain as to whether or not the reasoning/logic he's using is genuine, but regardless of whether it is or not, I outright disagree with his conclusion that it's not a contradiction to place that vote.

@Varsoon: Are there any differences between the way the huntmaster vote works compared to the way a standard vote works, other than the fact that it is separate from all normal vote modifying mechanics? Can it be unvoted? Can it be cast elsewhere after it has been placed on someone?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

What's got your knickers in a twist newfriend?

One of the safest entrances I think I've ever seen.

OMG Senseis here! I literally got up from bed just to get to my computer to type to you!

Elbirn's.

Jumping into the game and townreading a majority of the people who have posted so far and then proceeding to rvs is safe. There's no chance to make any "enemies" when you do that.

It's supplemented by the fact that half the reads I couldn't quite see where he was coming from either.

Bruh this is what I do, I gave you people #gold in the form of a solid townbloc and then tried to wagon out of rvs

*snip*

This does not leave an assassin with much confidence.

What's wrong with it?

It reads as a player trying to peg someone as scum more than actually scumhunt.

What the fuck does this even MEAN
"He's not trying to scumhunt, he's trying to scumhunt"

Plus the post you quoted was elaborating a townread

Ranger ALWAYS scum reads me at the start of the game

Even when you're confirmed town.
{D&D}
{Mixed 6, Reasonably Irrational, Nahdia, RyLina, Sensei}
{Klingoncelt, Almost50, Hastur}
{Fire Assassin, Toogeloo, Zulfy, Xkfyu}
{Shadow_step}
{Patches, Shinobi}

So at this point you've got d&d as top town and patches as bottom scum but I was under the impression at this stage in the game that patches was d&d's spider vote and I thought everyone thought this and I was thinking like how did you not think that but this leads to nothing I give up

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

So whoever is controlling patches is kind of like a town crier with an anonymous vote? (not at varsoon, at other players)

Seems so yes. His dialogue seems a bit varsoony. I wonder if the "master" merely dictates actions and varsoon does the talking. Either way it's probably not an alt account that the player has access to, it'd be that the master pm's a message and action to varsoon and he goes from there.

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

Wgeurts: I'm always this engaged...but it's rare that my engagement is as purposeful as it's been in this game, yes.

Shadow_step: Zulfy is the trolliest of trolls imo. I've never seen him self vote, but I've seen him do things which display a degree of incompetence such that I wouldn't put anything past him. A singular self vote, though, isn't a big deal. So, do you have any meaningful contributions to make? Your ISO is exactly as useless and empty as Zulfy's.

ABR: Stop it. Your other head is being reasonable, but you're ruining all of that and making me wish you'd just let them play without you.

-Cerb

pedit: Yay, a truce or something.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, I thought we could be friends.

A50: So prior to you targeting her, Nahdia was your strongest scumread, and now she's your strongest townread? Just want to make sure I'm reading your post correctly.

Let's get these low content people engaged!
Bogre, KC, H&M, Toogeloo : Do you have anything to share with the class?
Shadow_Step: Does your 228 mean you don't see it as scummy at all, or just not to the degree others think? Do you have any thoughts on anyone other than A50?
Randomidget: Yes, it seems that they're an unlimited town crier(or maybe not unlimited, since they decided to say they would stop posting) with a vote, that can be lynched. There's been a decent amount of content already in this game. Any thoughts? I want you engaged in this, and not just autoscumread because you're not participating, like in SD2.
xkfyu: Please respond to my 141. I want to understand how the "elaborate" thought process you can see in A50 makes him more likely to be town. Actually, I'd like to see if you can outline the thought process, because I don't see anything particularly elaborate about it.
Ranger: Let's talk about your bottom 5, excluding Patches. Toogeloo, Zulfy, Bogre, Shadow_step, Shinobi. It seems to me like everyone you have there, except for Shinobi, has been largely absent this game. What are you basing these reads off of, or if this purely a (perhaps unintentional) instance of connecting inactivity to scum play? Regarding Shinobi, you never explained what you meant in your 104, or rather, never elaborated. The idea that you're suggesting makes sense as cause to suspect someone, but I'd like to know more about the situation you're comparing his current play to.
D&D: Please demonstrate that you may move this vote privately.

@Varsoon: I'm pretty certain you've already answered this, but just to be certain: If an individual uses something which does not place a named vote on someone(say fire), and that individual is eventually lynched, do they receive the spoils as though they were on the wagon themselves? For the more specific situation I'm referring to, as a general rule, assuming their role has no modifiers clarifying that the vote counts as though they were on the wagon themselves, would the controller of the Spider vote gain credit for slaying someone via a lynch that vote is on?

Fire Assassin: I would appreciate a response to the end of my 139. I'll repeat it here. " What about that post strikes you as me attempting to peg someone as scum? I'm admitting that I gave too much town credit to D&D for their openness regarding their lack of a regular vote, not saying that I believe they're scum for it."
Zulfy: Regarding your 235, do you mean the individual defending the person who is voting you is scummy, or the individual who is defending YOU from the person who is voting you is scummy? Why? Is there anything else about Mixed6's play that is worthy of commentary? Why did you reveal/suggest that you have a nightmare to invite individuals to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

we can be friends i just feel like you in particular cerb feel a bit different this time around. also asking lots of questions really early also rubs me the wrong way. i might go reread your d1 in soccer spirits or something because that kind of play always strikes me as scum trying to look like they're hunting. imo statements > questions.

Ah. You should probably go reread my D1 in a billion other games as well. The problem wgeurts had with me was the prevalence of statements I was making, because generally asking questions is what I do. ^^ How do you hunt without asking questions? Without seeking clarification, and locking people down in position and making them explain their thought process, so you can identify when that process is contrived or contradicts previously established positions?

Also, interesting. Yeah, D&D, please demonstrate to us that you could have secretly controlled that vote and gained echoes at the least, without anyone realizing it was you who was doing it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

After discussing with Zorblag, the wise and level-headed professor, I'm announcing our candidacy for master of the hunt Night 2.

We're going to find scum.

We're going to get powers.

We're going to win.

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Mixed6

Please don't. I really don't look forward to a repeat of SF D1.

Ceeeeeeeeerrrbb I'm reading ur ISO from soccer spirits and I do not see any walls of questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: Reasonably Irrational

ok actually as i typed this out i found one but it's way smaller!!! there's also this post which kinda highlights my point from u here in SS where u

give opinions

about everyone who is low content thus far in SS rather than just putting a bit of attention on them and asking them stuff. it's like "hello friend yes i am town yes i am faciliating discussion that is pro-town hello yes i am pro-town yes i am town"

Nahdia, I did say for you to look at a bunch more games than just that one.

Wgeurts' issue with me is the involvement, the direct statements, blah blah, I made earlier. He expected more questioning from me(I think?). He did not play in the last couple games I was in. Thus, it seems obvious(to me at least) that if you're looking at my meta, it has transitioned over time, and I'm doing more substantive direct stuff on D1 than I used to...which means you have to look further back into my history(and actually, usually I do that kind of thing later in the game) to see similar situations in the past.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Zulfy: Regarding your 235, do you mean the individual defending the person who is voting you is scummy, or the individual who is defending YOU from the person who is voting you is scummy? Why? Is there anything else about Mixed6's play that is worthy of commentary? Why did you reveal/suggest that you have a nightmare to invite individuals to?

The person defending me.
Scum does that. Cuz scum can have accurate reads.

Town's usually the one to make an advance on a piece of nothingness like a self-vote in RVS. Scum can be dumb and wagon it or say "ehh that doesn't look scummy I don't think"

Gut tells me they'd do the latter.
No one really did how I wanted them to, abr came closest to doing so in quote I quoted.

Realized later it's ABR, all of it irrelevant.

My attempt at contribution was useless. Will try again.

Regarding my nightmare, just trying to figure out mechanics and therefore setup, dialectically.

That particular comment was Zorblag, not ABR. Is it still irrelevant? How does announcing to the whole game that you have a nightmare help you with figuring out the mechanics? Wouldn't you simply want to invite people who you believe are town into it(Unless, of course, you do bad stuff to the people in it, in which case you want to invite scum)?

Bleh. I don't really know how I feel about that whole line, it doesn't make sense to bring it up, I can't see any good reason to do so, but I can't see any scum reason to do so either.

-Cerb

pedit: I think meta is stupid, honestly, but you're the one who decided to bring it up. I don't know why you did. I think you're well enough acquainted with me to know that if something is a "signature" of my meta I would easily be able to replicate it. My playstyle is mechanical enough that doing so is pretty effortless.

ABR: No, where we spent 6k posts arguing about who should be the MC, and then eventually gave you that power in t he late game after constantly dealing with you harping on about how you should be the MC, at which time you promptly used to create a situation that resulted in my anti-town slot winning. ^^ I'm more concerned about the massively bloated thread that will come from you prompting every single person who posts to vote for you than with the latter part though, which I really just said because it made me chuckle.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and Nahdia: I never said I do walls of questions all the time? I do that shit when I get bored and there's nothing happening in the game, same with walls of actual commentary and thoughts on people. Throughout my ISO there tends to be a lot of questioning of people period, if I'm actually engaged in the game.

-Cerb

pedit: That's fine. I'm just trying to save you from wasting a bunch of time. ^^

peditx2:

Spoiler: SF stuff directed at ABR, not relevant to this game

You lost because you guys prevented your team from preventing the kills of the slots you had who could have guaranteed instant death for all the potential scum suspects remaining in the game. You had the ability to guarantee every scum suspect died before the night phase, and chose to pass on it. You also gave everyone the ability to "hide" for the rest of the day phase, and terribly complicated the execution of all the plans that had been setup by town throughout the game. Then you proceeded to use that power in an extremely scummy fashion, creating a situation where it was entirely possible you could have got conftown killed for free. I mean, there are a lot of factors in that, but the events of the last day of that game were spurred on in large part by your decision to go adventuring in the place that gave everyone the ability to hide, in a situation where you had to make sure would be lynched.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Zulfy: Regarding your 235, do you mean the individual defending the person who is voting you is scummy, or the individual who is defending YOU from the person who is voting you is scummy? Why? Is there anything else about Mixed6's play that is worthy of commentary? Why did you reveal/suggest that you have a nightmare to invite individuals to?

The person defending me.
Scum does that. Cuz scum can have accurate reads.

Town's usually the one to make an advance on a piece of nothingness like a self-vote in RVS. Scum can be dumb and wagon it or say "ehh that doesn't look scummy I don't think"

Gut tells me they'd do the latter.
No one really did how I wanted them to, abr came closest to doing so in quote I quoted.

Realized later it's ABR, all of it irrelevant.

My attempt at contribution was useless. Will try again

So zulfy, I included you in my town pile intro-post, quoting your self vote as reason for that. You responded to that merely with "Elbirn I love you"

Why aren't I scum, if the above is your thought process?

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

Anyway, back to this game. We need a leader.

Rampage

Yup

Master Of The Hunt: Reasonably Irrational

[Reasonably Irrational]

No Cerb. Zulfy was confirmed town and decided to piss his role away to troll the town as he was upset with me, and Titus was also upset with me and decided to tunnel on me for the entire game.

Rampage

After Zulfy pulled that move I mentally checked out of the game so I don't really count whatever happened after. I still consider it a town victory due to the wording of my role pm as well.

Anyway, back to this game. We need a leader.

Rampage

Yeah, the zulfy thing was very significant as well. And upon reflection, I realized that my slot had to remove 5-10 unknown slots in order to win, while town had to remove 6...so the idea of considering the loss unfair because Varsoon didn't express the victory condition the way he intended is kinda crappy. ^^

Anyways, you're right. You're a good advisor ABR. However, you are unfortunately a fairly terrible leader. I think I might vote for the slot if it was just zorblag, but I don't want you anywhere close to power. Sorry.

-Cerb

pedit: Oh look, Elbirn showed up.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Anyway, back to this game. We need a leader.

Rampage

Yup

Master Of The Hunt: Reasonably Irrational

Elbirn, homie, it's

Huntmaster Vote: Reasonably Irrational

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Would rather Daenerys and Dragons than you.

This is an interesting position to take. Once D&D demonstrates that they could have hidden their control of that vote all game long, I'd be slightly more inclined to vote for them, but..

Well. Is there dissonance going on here? Your partner expressed the belief that what we've seen out of them shouldn't be considered anything other than null. Has he changed his position, or do you simply disagree on this?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

This is the Troll head speaking, and I do endorse the plan of voting for Mixed6 as Master of the Hunt. This is a solid plan that benefits town. It has a backup, a secondary backup and a tertiary backup for when things go wrong, wronger and wrongest. You should all vote for it.

@Nahdia, it might surprise you to learn that I actually think that you getting a scum read on me is fine. Having said that, I'm astounded at how off I think most of your reads of the game are. I don't mean to offend there, it's just that it's so remarkable! It's not even in a "scum would go with these reads to try to get town lynched," sort of way. If you have trouble scum hunting, what do you plan to do to improve, or do you?

@Zulfy, as Reasonably Irrational pointed out, it wasn't Albert B. Rampage that commenting on your self-vote. In so far as anyone was in this hydra it was me. And curiously enough you don't seem to have realized who was defending you in the exchange in which it happened. Given that you spent the effort to set up something you thought was a trap, would you care to look back again and see if you can see who it might actually have caught? It sort of doesn't matter, as that catch isn't particularly better than the one you thought you had and then threw out, but I'd think you'd be interested in seeing what your efforts actually caused to happen.

@Reasonably Irrational, for what it's worth, my opinion of Daenerys and Dragons has improved. The initial reveal is a null tell, but behavior since then looks good to me. On a related note, I don't know if you ever got your answer from them that you raised in Post 196 about the difference between scum hunting and pegging scum, but I think context makes it pretty clear that they found the action to be an attempt to get a scum accusation to stick (peg someone as scum,) rather than actually determine someone's alignment (scum hunting.) They're engaged in the game and looking at interesting places, getting people to talk. Even if they're not town, they're actively helping town at this time. It's the same sort of thing that they didn't like my phrasing of when I applied it to you. They'd be a terrible lynch today unless something related to their power changes it, and at this time I'd be comfortable having them lead an early hunt if Mixed6 wasn't. They're not actually my top choice, but they're way up there.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

In 196 we were referring to a post by Fire Assassin, not D&D. I just want to be certain you're attributing the correct behaviors to the correct slot. In the post in question, which was about D&D, I never expressed any sort of scum read on them, which is why I'm curious how Fire Assassin came to the conclusion that I was using that post to attempt to cast shade on D&D.

On the Almost50 stuff, I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with his posts so far. In fact, they seemed to me to be coming from a well thought out mindset.

How so?
And why does that have an affect on your read of him?

Somehow, I knew you were gonna ask me about that post, just as soon as I posted it...

Anyways, I was talking specifically about the post where he was being paranoid about putting a random vote down. His thought process, while almost certainly ill-founded, was elaborate, and I think that suggests that he's town.

Do you have a lot of experience with A50? If so, do you believe he, as scum, wouldn't both with an elaborate explanation for something as likely to be questioned as his post was? If not, why does the elaborate thought process suggest he's town?

-Cerb

I only have one game of experience with him, but it was more of a generalization, instead of something specific about Almost.

The reason an elaborate thought process suggest he's town is because those kinds of thought processes come from town more often than scum. Same goes with elaborate gambits, and the like.

Hm. I'm not certain I agree, but alright.

@Nahdia, it might surprise you to learn that I actually think that you getting a scum read on me is fine. Having said that, I'm astounded at how off I think most of your reads of the game are. I don't mean to offend there, it's just that it's so remarkable! It's not even in a "scum would go with these reads to try to get town lynched," sort of way. If you have trouble scum hunting, what do you plan to do to improve, or do you?

what, are you gonna apply to be my tutor or something? now hiring, pal.

ILU Nahdia. You go learn things!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Mixed6: yeah, I understand what he MEANT, but I don't see any reason for him to arrive at that conclusion based on the original post. That's where the confusion came from (though both Elbirn and I responded to that post in different fashions, and the post you're quoting waa Elbirns, so he may have been surprised by it in a way different from my own.

Also, I really don't want to end up in a huge campaign against your slot for the huntmaster position. This strikes me as somethng which will be largely a huge distraction from the scumhunting. How can we resolve this in the smallest number of posts possible?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

So zulfy, I included you in my town pile intro-post, quoting your self vote as reason for that. You responded to that merely with "Elbirn I love you"

Why aren't I scum, if the above is your thought process?

-Elbirn

Thats not even what I said.

I just thought you should know.

Zulfy I swear if you don't shoot straight with me here I will bamboozle you to heck and back. Swear on me mum.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Ranger: Let's talk about your bottom 5, excluding Patches. Toogeloo, Zulfy, Bogre, Shadow_step, Shinobi. It seems to me like everyone you have there, except for Shinobi, has been largely absent this game. What are you basing these reads off of, or if this purely a (perhaps unintentional) instance of connecting inactivity to scum play?

Why is it that people keep on assuming that inactivity factors into my scumreads?

I mean, sure, I suppose if it continues over a long enough period of time it would, but no, it's always for post-based reasoning.

Regarding Shinobi, you never explained what you meant in your 104, or rather, never elaborated. The idea that you're suggesting makes sense as cause to suspect someone, but I'd like to know more about the situation you're comparing his current play to.

This game has a lot of parallels to Killer Instinct, Shinobi's play among them. It's a dead-ringer.
{D&D, RyLina, Gee Willikers}
{Mixed 6, Reasonably Irrational, Nahdia, Sensei}
{Klingoncelt, Almost50, Hastur, Xkfyu}
{Fire Assassin, randomidget, PeregrineV, Zulfy}
{Toogeloo}
{Shadow_step, Bogre}
{Patches, Shinobi}

I don't think inactivity factors into your reads, generally, but it was something I noticed when I looked at your ISO and your latest read list. The main point of the question was...what are the post based reasons for your reads on each of those slots I listed?

Also, I'm sad that you're voting MIxed6 instead of us. :-/ The list of potential candidates you listed, btw, basically matches up with the list of those who I'd prefer be within any such huntmasters party. D&D/Gee Willikers/Mixed6/Myself would be my preferred composition at the moment, I think. Ranger is also a possibility, but honestly, I don't think Ranger needs any more of a target on her than she already has. ^^

I do need to ask wgeurts something though, because he gave me some doubts with his most recent posts...

Wgeurts, in your last set of reads you had *this* slot as towniest, immediately followed by Mixed6, yet when there was a clear choice between the two for which you believe to be towniest(or at least, you used such as your reason, since you said "there was nobody else you trusted as much"), you voted for them. What caused the switch in positions/the strengthening in your town read on them/weakening of your town read on us? You know how I feel about contradictions, and that particular choice feels like a contradiction. It's like voting for your second or third scum read, instead of your strongest scum read. It just doesn't make sense.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You can vote us for huntmaster too.

Rampage

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

I've seen him do it before.

Klingon, are you endorsing us for master hunter?

Rampage

See this? This is what I was referring to in my earlier post directed at you, ABR. You're going to flood the thread with posts designed solely to push people into voting for you, and it's NOT a protown thing to do.

The flooding, that is.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb if we're the master hunter, we're taking you hunting too buddy.

Rampage

Ditto. I think we already established that.

See this? This is what I was referring to in my earlier post directed at you, ABR. You're going to flood the thread with posts designed solely to push people into voting for you, and it's NOT a protown thing to do.

It is absolutely pro-town, because it is what I do as town. This is my game.

Rampage

Less noise, more signal, please? It's not pro-town because you're just spamming it(or rather, I know your behavior in similar circumstances, and you'll just spam it more as the game goes on).

-Cerb

pedit: That would be what they're saying, yes. It's a preemptive defense of sorts?

[Reasonably Irrational]

"Whatever happens...
You may think it all a mere bad dream."

-Blood Minister

VOTECOUNT 1.05

Almost50 (3):

Sensei, Mixed6, Randomidget

Patches the Spider (3):

Rylai and Lina, Zulfy, Toogeloo

Toogeloo (2):

Fire Assassin, Klingoncelt

Shinobi (2):

Ranger, [SPIDER]

Zulfy (1):

Shinobi

randomidget (1):

Reasonably Irrational

Hastur and Muriel (1):

Bogre

Xkfyu (1):

Shadow_Step

Reasonably Irrational (1):

Nahdia

Rylai and Lina (1):

Patches the Spider

Not Voting (6):

Yume, Hastur and Muriel, PeregrineV, Almost50, Gee Willikers, Xkfyu

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-06-06 23:00:00)

The Master of the Hunt is

Klingoncelt

The Hunter's Party is

Mixed6, Shinobi, and Almost50

The Chosen Chalice Ritual is

Pthumeru Chalice - Depth 1.

Available Chalice Dungeons:

Spoiler:

Pthumeru Chalice

- Depth 1

Hintertomb Chalice

- Depth 2

Ailing Loran Chalice

- Depth 4

Great Isz Chalice

- Depth 5

Spoiler: HUNTMASTER VOTE

Reasonably Irrational (2):

Almost50, Reasonably Irrational

Mixed6 (2):

Mixed6, Gee Willikers

Guys. Please vote somewhere else. If you want to vote for an inactive, vote for one that actually has a chance of being scum, rather than just potentially being a scum mouthpiece.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

After discussing with Zorblag, the wise and level-headed professor, I'm announcing our candidacy for master of the hunt Night 2.

We're going to find scum.

We're going to get powers.

We're going to win.

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Mixed6

You know that you're on my team already, right?

They want you to vote them as Master of the Hunt for tomorrow.

I also want you to vote me as Master of the Hunt for tomorrow.

Anything we can talk about KC? What's on your mind?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Unvote

Why people sheeped my test vote? Patches is worst case scenario a survivor (at least flavour wise)


Ok here is the deal folks #and by folks I mean RI and mixed)

I like both of you for town so which one of you can guarantee me a spot in the hunt? I wanna kill some beasts.

One a side note I think this is the first time I am townreading Klingoncelt.

@Abr

Well I mean yiu did kinda speed lynch me even though I was obv town

~Lina

I likely won't be including you in the hunt, barring some insane obvtowning on your part over the course of the rest of this day, and I won't compromise my desire to include those I view as the most likely to be town just to garner your favor.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Allo' cerb, although you don't tend to how many reads right now do you have any possible suspicions or stuff that doesn't currently make sense?
~wgeurts

Umm, I directed a question at you noting a particular contradiction already. Perhaps you could address that? Other than that and the weird thing with A50 earlier where he performed an act he believed couldn't be reversed super early in the day in spite of urging caution, not many contradictory actions occurring yet.

I suspect that randomidget is town now, because I suspect something may have occurred outside the thread and I didn't react the way he expected me to react to it. Then again, I may be wrong and someone else could be the source, but I don't see any reason for him to have cause to think I'm scum other than the thing I'm not going to say anything more about.

Of course, if any of you know what I'm talking about, you should let me know so I can retract this townread on randomidget.

That's about it right now though.

Shiro: maybe you can just tell yourself that I deliberately chose to answer that way, knowing that it was the towniest way to answer? :p That way you can justify voting for Mixed6, since you know ABR isn't above promising to put people "in his party" to get their support. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm not sure what you think is going on with Randomiget however if it is what I suspect it is I doubt that's likely. Random has the tendency to change reads without explaining them instantly, I've played with him before. It's nothing to do with us at least. Also Cerb, consider me to be DGB in this head of the hydra this game.

I currently have some suspicions on Shinobi and almost50 however I dont have enough information to feel okay with going after them just yet. I'll make a post asking them about some stuff once I have PC access.

The ammont of players lurking or posting fluff is also too high for my liking. We need more people to start posting soon. If that doesn't happen I would be happy to help pressure a few of them into producing content.

Wgeurts....still not addressing my question. What happened between your readslist and your vote for Mixed6 as Master of the Hunt to either 1) change your read on me or 2) change your read on them, such that you "trust"(which implies, townread) them more than me?

I will let you know that I'm trying hard man, and not picking up on what you're saying regarding being DGB. I'll comb over the appropriate resources and see if I can figure it out. ^^

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, I agree regarding the high level of lurking/fluff posting going on here. Yume hasn't even posted yet and we're almost two days into the game, after 3 days of "no activity required".

...

How do you feel about shadow_steps preemptive lurker defense?

-Cerb

pedit: Announcing ourselves FA? I'm uncertain what you're referring to.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Anyway, back to this game. We need a leader.

Rampage

Yup

Master Of The Hunt: Reasonably Irrational

this

~Rylai

Ah, got it. For what it's worth, there are two strong mechanical reasons for that in this game, unlike other games where I didn't push for that position.

-Cerb

pedit: Hmm. Got it wgeurts. Well, I think. You know I'm bad at this subtlety shit man. ^^

[Reasonably Irrational]

and why do you want to take the people you think are more scummy with you in hunt ?

~Rylai

What? I didn't say that?

This is what I said:

<snip>

I likely won't be including you in the hunt, barring some insane obvtowning on your part over the course of the rest of this day, and I won't compromise my desire to include those I view as the

most likely to be town

just to garner your favor.

-Cerb

Like,I literally said the opposite of what you thought I said.

-Cerb
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

We literally spoke about you possibly needing to be more subtle and less blunt in Skype last time we played together in Saga frontier. You should really take my advice for that Cerb
Although my views on things aren't always correct. (There's a reason my town win rate is still lsss than 50% right now )
~wgeurts

Meh, one of these days man. It's hard enough keeping on top of the game and playing properly without trying to be clever about things.

-Cerb

pedit: I think it's pretty obvious why Sensei voted the way he did in both those cases.

[Reasonably Irrational]

What was your reason to vote him?

Well if you were paying attention you'd have noticed I already answered this.

His readwall back on whatever page it was where he threw out like 10 townreads based on nothing and didn't call anyone scum looked like trying to make friends a bit. Or rather not someone really looking for scum.

But I don't know though, the fake dayvig on nahdia and then him sorta dissecting his own wagon sorta looked town later on so meh.

Decided to move on to different things.

Yoouuuu are referring to two different slots here newfriend.

-Elbirn

Oh bullshit *picks up post*

I'm talking about almost's #103.

My reading comprehension got dumb because I thought you two were also discussing why you voted RI, nvm carry on

UNVOTE: randomidget

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

UNVOTE:
OK RI can be town for now. It is what you were thinking of. That was a good reaction to the vote.

Hmm. Fourth word of the flavor associated with what I'm thinking of, Random? Ask the mod if you don't already know, should have access to that information, making sure we're both on the same page here.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Where is Cerb? Cerb what do you want to do about the huntmaster?

Do we have a consensus on lynching shadow?

Rampage

Yo. As I said, so far I'm pretty content with tomorrow nights hunt consisting of Mixed6, myself, D&D, and *possibly* Gee Willikers, although if Random responds correctly to my last question, they might be a better choice because I'll be almost positive they're town. As I said before, there is an actual mechanical reason why our slot should be huntmaster, but I think we mostly agree on party composition.

I want to see more from shadow, but we have a definite consensus on scumreading the slot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

man i never get to do the cool varsoon vote-in mechanics i suck at popularity contests :[

If it's any consolation, I've been in three games with this mechanic, and this is the first time I've participated. I wasn't even part of the cool private areas ever/was never selected as one of the "towniest" people except that one time in SD2, and that was just cause we had to switch dimensions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sorry Nahdia. Look super town and then people will want you to hunt with them!

Anyways, you never responded to my points about your suspicions. You seem to be laboring under the belief that when I said I ask lots of questions, I meant that question walls are a standard part of my play. That's not what I said. I said that questioning people on things frequently is standard part of my play, rather than making statements.

Mixed6: PV has done nothing, why him in particular? Fire Assassin...has some content. I didn't understand why he threw shade on me for my post downgrading my townread on D&D, but other than that he seems fine. Tell me what you see man.

-Cerb

pedit: wgeurts....sorry. :-/ Just don't say I'm disappointing you cause of the randomidget thing, because if that's the case, then I need to reevaluate all these things. If I'm disappointing you for some other reason, then...I suck, but you don't need to tell me anymore.

[Reasonably Irrational]

{Reasonably Irrational, Daenerys and Dragons, Gee Willikers, Toogeloo}
{Mixed6, Ranger, Rylai and Lina, Nahdia, Xkyfu}
{Fire Assassin, KlingonCelt}
{Hastur and Muriel, Zulfy}
{Yume, PeregrineV}
{Sensei, Shadow_Step} (these two probably aren't scum together)
{Bogre}
{Shinobi, Almost50}
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shinobi
I'm willing to let Almost wait for a bit. Shinobi's tone is really off.

What does that mean, exactly?

Alright, this is going to sound weird. I feel like you are trying to emulate a tone and posting style rather than using one naturally, which makes me think you are trying to emulate your town game as scum.
Cerb, I'm not 100% sure this is what you are asking, but "to"

Counting from the beginning or end?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Man I think I might have difficulty keeping up with this game.
And the complexity to it, this might be a repeat of Space Dandy if I don't start dropping other games to focus.

All my other games are suffering right now. Fuck em. Half of me is twice the effort they'll get out of a replacement, and it's worth it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

{Reasonably Irrational, Daenerys and Dragons, Gee Willikers, Toogeloo}
{Mixed6, Ranger, Rylai and Lina, Nahdia, Xkyfu}
{Fire Assassin, KlingonCelt}
{Hastur and Muriel, Zulfy}
{Yume, PeregrineV}
{Sensei, Shadow_Step} (these two probably aren't scum together)
{Bogre}
{Shinobi, Almost50}
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shinobi
I'm willing to let Almost wait for a bit. Shinobi's tone is really off.

What does that mean, exactly?

Alright, this is going to sound weird. I feel like you are trying to emulate a tone and posting style rather than using one naturally, which makes me think you are trying to emulate your town game as scum.
Cerb, I'm not 100% sure this is what you are asking, but "to"

Counting from the beginning or end?

-Cerb

Beggining.

Huntmaster Vote: randomidget

That's...that's not the right answer man. :-/ This is a problem.

Oh very clever cerb. Only just realized why you asked that.

I mean, I know why I asked the question, but you don't have the right answer, so I don't know how you know why I asked it.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sorry Nahdia. Look super town and then people will want you to hunt with them!

Anyways, you never responded to my points about your suspicions. You seem to be laboring under the belief that when I said I ask lots of questions, I meant that question walls are a standard part of my play. That's not what I said. I said that questioning people on things frequently is standard part of my play, rather than making statements.

dude im town as hell how do i even amp it up further

and uh i guess you're referring to 304 i didn't really respond but i did say elsewhere that im watching your slot closely for development since im still really not sold you guys are doing any genuine hunting. you're on my #radar pal.

Idk. I suck at acting townie. The way I act just generally makes people think I'm a condescending asshole who they don't want to work with, but find it too difficult to try to push a lynch on, so I just hang out in the game.

Also, this is more hunting than I've ever done on a D1 Nahdia.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

"…I pray you have found meaning, and comfort, in the waking world."

-The Plain Doll

VOTECOUNT 1.06

Shadow_Step (5):

Shinobi, Sensei, Gee Willikers, Bogre, Nahdia

Patches the Spider (2):

Zulfy, Toogeloo

Toogeloo (2):

Fire Assassin, Klingoncelt

Shinobi (2):

Ranger, Randomidget

Hastur and Muriel (1):

[SPIDER]

Sensei (1):

Shadow_Step

Rylai and Lina (1):

Patches the Spider

Bogre (1):

Rylai and Lina

Almost50 (1):

Mixed6

Not Voting (7):

Yume, Hastur and Muriel, PeregrineV, Almost50, Xkfyu, Reasonably Irrational

With 22 Alive, it takes 12 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-06-06 23:00:00)

The Master of the Hunt is

Klingoncelt

The Hunter's Party is

Mixed6, Shinobi, and Almost50

The Chosen Chalice Ritual is

Pthumeru Chalice - Depth 1.

Available Chalice Dungeons:

Spoiler:

Pthumeru Chalice

- Depth 1

Hintertomb Chalice

- Depth 2

Ailing Loran Chalice

- Depth 4

Great Isz Chalice

- Depth 5

Spoiler: HUNTMASTER VOTE

Mixed6 (3):

Mixed6, Gee Willikers, Ranger

Reasonably Irrational (2):

Almost50, Reasonably Irrational

@RI: please note we have proved we are able to move our spider vote privately.

-Daenerys

Yep, noted.

Randomidget: The word I consider the first is "Through". If that is the first, what is the fourth? Please ask the mod what I received, if you were indeed the source, because if you get this wrong again I'm going to have to conclude that you're trying to just ride on the fact that we can't be precise in this conversation to get yourself a townread from me. :-/

-Cerb

pedit: Ditto Nahdia. I have a few people like that, and it is a shitty way to play, but we are only human, and there are people we feel more confident in our ability to interact with and understand.

[Reasonably Irrational]

OH SHIT RANDOM WAIT I THINK I JUST FUCKING GOT IT!!!!

YOU PROBABLY ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE QUOTED STUFF!!!

Alright. Second test. Just from the quoted stuff, now that I understand the frame of reference(I fucked that up by not thinking things through). Eighth word from the beginning. The first one in my count from that position is "You're".

Go! Let's get this resolved!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Scum vibes is utter crumpets and tonal reads are horrifically unreliable.
I'm afraid it's those that don't know how common sense and reason work that should learn to improve, as until they do so they're simply a hinderance for themselves and others. The best town play is that when every town player is putting all the thoughts they can on the table and analysis of it from all sides ensures. This is a game of logic and probability, I'm afraid you don't seem to get that.
~wgeurts

QF FUCKING T!

On a related note, Nahdia: Who will you refuse to lynch today, for actual game related reasons? Whose play has struck you as certain to be coming from town?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

OH SHIT RANDOM WAIT I THINK I JUST FUCKING GOT IT!!!!

YOU PROBABLY ONLY KNOW ABOUT THE QUOTED STUFF!!!

Alright. Second test. Just from the quoted stuff, now that I understand the frame of reference(I fucked that up by not thinking things through). Eighth word from the beginning. The first one in my count from that position is "You're".

Go! Let's get this resolved!

-Cerb

What does it mean when wgeurts compared himself to DGB in saga? I know some players here including us three and klingon were in saga, but DGB was scum, so I'm not getting what he's hinting at or why he's so confident in a townreading our slot this game. Did wgeurts and you guess what role DGB was in saga and were wrong about it? Or is it a strategy she was adopting? I don't see how comparing himself to scum is helpful in any way but I'm glad for the huntmaster support.

Why did you quote what you did? And, I haven't yet figured out what he's referring to with DGB yet. I think that's why he's disappointed in me. ^^ DGB did very little, was scum, and wgeurts and I determined EXACTLY what her role was and were correct about it, and got her lynched for it. Well, not just us, but yeah. And ABR blindly defended her until we pointed out what her role likely was and how scummy it was that she hadn't claimed it.

Those are the only parallels I see so far, and none of them make sense in this context.

-Cerb

{Reasonably Irrational, Daenerys and Dragons, Gee Willikers, Toogeloo}
{Mixed6, Ranger, Rylai and Lina, Nahdia, Xkyfu}
{Fire Assassin, KlingonCelt}
{Hastur and Muriel, Zulfy}
{Yume, PeregrineV}
{Sensei, Shadow_Step} (these two probably aren't scum together)
{Bogre}
{Shinobi, Almost50}
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Shinobi
I'm willing to let Almost wait for a bit. Shinobi's tone is really off.

What does that mean, exactly?

Alright, this is going to sound weird. I feel like you are trying to emulate a tone and posting style rather than using one naturally, which makes me think you are trying to emulate your town game as scum.
Cerb, I'm not 100% sure this is what you are asking, but "to"

Based on what?

Your approach to RVS and your interactions with people who pressured for it.
LMAO cerb this shit is too complicated. Eighth word from "you're" I make to be "then"

You totally got it wrong again(off by one word, if the first word is You're, then what I'm looking for is the SEVENTH word from it, the 8th total word in the sentence, but I understand what you were thinking, I will place my faith in my original read of the situation being correct. Enough of this. You get to be town, and if you're not, good job.

-Cerb

pedit: Absolutely not wgeurts. It's okay man. Don't worry about it.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb are you fucking dense or something?

Umm..

Apparently?

I told him I don't do subtle. Like, seriously guys. I don't do crumbs. :-/ If you want me to know something fucking tell me, or tell me in the night with the cool messages thing or something, if it's really necessary that I understand where you're coming from and you can't speak clearly.

-Cerb

pedit: It would be hilarious, but you got it right twice in the frame I understand the conversation was referring to, so..it's unlikely. But yeah. I was aiming for much more notable words than fucking "to" and "then" for that exact reason.

peditx2: I just said I guessed her role before she flipped. And I was right about it.

...

But I don't see the relevance of that to the current situation. So....

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb you're too stupid for this game, you need to surrender your huntmaster vote to me.

Don't insult my intelligence. I know it was(probably) a joke, but seriously. Don't. I'm very good at some things, and not good at this in particular.

I've put exactly the amount of thought required to arrive at those basic conclusions regarding the DGB situation from Saga, and I've moved on because I simply don't give a fuck. It's not worth it to me to actually try to determine which particular nuance of that situation applies here, especially if it's not one of the things I just mentioned, which means I'll need to go back and actually reread something from that game.

Random: Don't insult ABR's intelligence either. :-/ The entire thing is not so cool all around.

Wgeurts: Okay.

For the record, I love all of you and want us to all be happy and shit. So let's do that k?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Cerb, you need not read the game itself. Some theories of mine I only shared with you, and not with the public because that's what you deemed best. The bolded is important.
~wgeurts

Yep, I got it. Noted.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Huntmaster vote please.

The mechanical reasons for my slot being hunt master still exist. :-/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Huntmaster vote please.

The mechanical reasons for my slot being hunt master still exist. :-/

-Cerb

And we'll hear all about it in a party chat PT I'll organize for you.

I need an honest answer here: Is there ANY mechanical benefit to you being huntmaster? Much less multiple benefits. Seriously? If there isn't, in a universe where you are conftown, and I am conftown, I would naturally vote for myself, 100% of the time, because it's simply superior play.

That's where I'm coming from here, and why I'm bothering with this popularity contest. :-/

-Cerb

pedit: Trust, it is.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Let's fucking move on to something else. We can table the huntsman discussion, especially until I've had the opportunity to talk about it with Elbirn.

Shinobi and Assassin were here and saying stuff, right, and I kinda just didn't let any of it sink it because I was trying to figure out what was going on with randomidget etc. Anything important happen there?

-Cerb

ABR: You can refuse to answer the question, best for WifoM, but I'm just telling you that in a universe where we are both conftown, I am voting and campaigning for myself 100% of the time, with the information I currently possess.

[Reasonably Irrational]

This has gone from "CERB REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED IN SAGA"

To you not having a single clue about anything

To you softclaiming out of nowhere AFTER THE MOD SAYS CLAIMING IS ALWAYS BAD IN THIS GAME

To you blatantly asking me for my role information.

Go to hell.

ABR: I mentioned that there was a mechanical benefit to the huntmaster thing blah blah before my epiphany today. That has no relation to this. I'm simply telling you that there is a reason why I support myself over others.

-Cerb

pedit: ...I just asked you not to do that.

[Reasonably Irrational]

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Reasonably Irrational

I don't know how this makes me feel. I kinda agree with Ranger that this power seems more likely to be scum than town(BUT Varsoon does like mixing things up, the mechanic this matches from Suikoden was a scum one, so this one might be town just because "lol fuck you guys for trying to outguess the mod"). That means this vote is intended to rile up the discussion and keep us spamming the thread about it. :-/

Random, Shadow is the only person who I find super suspicious. I need to reread A50. I dislike the contradiction, but I think I need to judge him off more than just that. I want to hear from Yume, period.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I am truly sorry for your lots.

Haaaa, references


Anyway I have nothing of value to add. Cerb and I talkytalky about stuff. We understand the things we need understand. Cryptic metaphors. We're discussing the merits and drawbacks of a mixed6 presidency. Exciting times yes

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

Is almost50 just bad at mafia or what?

VOTE: Fire Assassin

This is the real scum.

Attaboi

VOTE: Fire Assassin

So zulfy, I included you in my town pile intro-post, quoting your self vote as reason for that. You responded to that merely with "Elbirn I love you"

Why aren't I scum, if the above is your thought process?

-Elbirn

Thats not even what I said.

I just thought you should know.

Zulfy I swear if you don't shoot straight with me here I will bamboozle you to heck and back. Swear on me mum.

I don't know man like I said, I saw you were in the player list and got excited.
I guess if you want more from me I could ask why you think a selfvote is towny but I know what you would say already so

What I want is an answer to this: if people defending you for self-voting are scum, and I loudly announce a townread on you for self-voting, then why do you not think I'm scum?

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, I thought we could be friends.

A50: So prior to you targeting her, Nahdia was your strongest scumread, and now she's your strongest townread? Just want to make sure I'm reading your post correctly.

Let's get these low content people engaged!
Bogre, KC, H&M, Toogeloo : Do you have anything to share with the class?
Shadow_Step: Does your 228 mean you don't see it as scummy at all, or just not to the degree others think? Do you have any thoughts on anyone other than A50?
Randomidget: Yes, it seems that they're an unlimited town crier(or maybe not unlimited, since they decided to say they would stop posting) with a vote, that can be lynched. There's been a decent amount of content already in this game. Any thoughts? I want you engaged in this, and not just autoscumread because you're not participating, like in SD2.
xkfyu: Please respond to my 141. I want to understand how the "elaborate" thought process you can see in A50 makes him more likely to be town. Actually, I'd like to see if you can outline the thought process, because I don't see anything particularly elaborate about it.
Ranger: Let's talk about your bottom 5, excluding Patches. Toogeloo, Zulfy, Bogre, Shadow_step, Shinobi. It seems to me like everyone you have there, except for Shinobi, has been largely absent this game. What are you basing these reads off of, or if this purely a (perhaps unintentional) instance of connecting inactivity to scum play? Regarding Shinobi, you never explained what you meant in your 104, or rather, never elaborated. The idea that you're suggesting makes sense as cause to suspect someone, but I'd like to know more about the situation you're comparing his current play to.
D&D: Please demonstrate that you may move this vote privately.

@Varsoon: I'm pretty certain you've already answered this, but just to be certain: If an individual uses something which does not place a named vote on someone(say fire), and that individual is eventually lynched, do they receive the spoils as though they were on the wagon themselves? For the more specific situation I'm referring to, as a general rule, assuming their role has no modifiers clarifying that the vote counts as though they were on the wagon themselves, would the controller of the Spider vote gain credit for slaying someone via a lynch that vote is on?

Fire Assassin: I would appreciate a response to the end of my 139. I'll repeat it here. " What about that post strikes you as me attempting to peg someone as scum? I'm admitting that I gave too much town credit to D&D for their openness regarding their lack of a regular vote, not saying that I believe they're scum for it."

Zulfy: Regarding your 235, do you mean the individual defending the person who is voting you is scummy, or the individual who is defending YOU from the person who is voting you is scummy? Why? Is there anything else about Mixed6's play that is worthy of commentary? Why did you reveal/suggest that you have a nightmare to invite individuals to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sorry Nahdia. Look super town and then people will want you to hunt with them!

Anyways, you never responded to my points about your suspicions. You seem to be laboring under the belief that when I said I ask lots of questions, I meant that question walls are a standard part of my play. That's not what I said. I said that questioning people on things frequently is standard part of my play, rather than making statements.

Mixed6: PV has done nothing, why him in particular? Fire Assassin...has some content. I didn't understand why he threw shade on me for my post downgrading my townread on D&D, but other than that he seems fine. Tell me what you see man.

-Cerb

pedit: wgeurts....sorry. :-/ Just don't say I'm disappointing you cause of the randomidget thing, because if that's the case, then I need to reevaluate all these things. If I'm disappointing you for some other reason, then...I suck, but you don't need to tell me anymore.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, this is more hunting than I've ever done on a D1 Nahdia.

Not true. You did even better in SS

Eh. I was sheeping Mastins reads, and just pushing like, one person and defending myself. *shrug* Very different circumstances.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Nahdia
@Cerb
&
@Anyone else:

Do you actually play the theme game (i.e. Bloodborne on PS4)???

I bought the game the day Varsoon posted his advertisement, but I haven't played very much. I keep getting distracted by Fallout 4 and Endless Legend and various anime I'd like to watch.

Why?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Attaboi

VOTE: Fire Assassin

mate, your attachment to the Mixed slot is starting to get to me. This is the DS slot of this game, and you're going after the EP slot I think!

I have no idea what any of that means

At any rate mixed is town, you shouldn't use that thingy you're using on him. Remove pleaz

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

At any rate mixed is town, you shouldn't use that thingy you're using on him. Remove pleaz

No he's not, and yes I should. Sorry. Cannot comply. Syntax Error @ line end.

Come on bro. I implore you good sir.

How about this. Mafia is a team sport. I believe you and I are on the same team. We should work together. Cooperation is wonderful! And this means that we need to weigh the input of our fellow town in our decision making. Other players have input, ideas, opinions, and knowledge that you may not have, and this combined input from everyone allows us to make the most informed decision as a collective.

I'm rambling absolute nonsense at the moment because I'm really dumb but the point is, please consider the viewpoints of others, and that they may know something that you do not. I very strongly believe mixed6 to be town. So do many others. I know that you don't think so, and that's fine! But we need to be a bit more democratic about the way we use our powers. Don't just pick up your ball and go home bro, be a team playa

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

I'm town reading Almost50 and Ranger. I feel like I want to town read RI, but Elbirn completely fooled me in Space Dandy, so I'm cautious.

I don't have a clue as to who my scum reads are yet though, but I have a bit of catch up to do right now.

Xkyfu, you and I didn't interact once during space dandy 2 if I'm not mistaken, and I can't recall you ever even commenting on me really. How did I "fool" you?

[Reasonably Irrational]

Sigh....that ^ was me again. Elbirn.

Look just....if a post isn't signed, it's me. Okay?

Pedit: fuck you Shinobi I hope you get caught picking your nose at work

Pedit2; you too rylai let me post dammit

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm the one that said Varsoon wouldn't make it that easy. "What's easy about voting for Patches" you ask. It's probably a dummy slot, we could all very easily vote for that. Taking the easy way out can't bring great rewards.

I chose the current Hunting Party out of those players that I know fairly well and can get a half-decent read of.

I don't know why they don't choose me.

Yeah the patches convo is dumb and I don't think it would award anything for lynching it

Klingon, you chose the current party? It wasn't rng'd at game start?

"Not being scummy, but lazy isn't anti town at all"

I'm lazy town all the time; I found nothing suspicious in Almost50 saying that.

...It's

other

things that have raised eyebrows on him.

That said...mind explaining how you take the above stance for Almost50, and yet...

I am kinda thinking Mixed6 is going for a "These are the lazy slots that we should focus on" which is really bad

...Immediately after, you take this one?
{D&D, RyLina, Gee Willikers, Sensei}
{Mixed 6, Reasonably Irrational, Nahdia, Klingoncelt}
{Hastur, Xkfyu, randomidget}
{PeregrineV, Zulfy, Almost50}
{Toogeloo, Fire Assassin}
{Shadow_step, Bogre}
{Patches, Shinobi}

This confused me. In the first quote he says that being lazy isn't antitown. In the 2nd quote he questions someone pushing lazy people as scum reads...unless I'm missing context I don't see a contradiction

whoever gets online please put down their reads on Shinobi and My vote and action.

~Rylai

His reaction was terrible and I haven't felt good about Shinobi this game. Will stop/collaborate/listen with cerb when he gets on

Shinobi is leaning town for me.
Not putting vote there.

Might put huntsmaster vote on RI, though I still like Random better since I have stronger town read on him.
His (RI) "Mechanical reason" sounds like a little fib in order to get the vote tbh.

So you have a stronger townread on random...but you might huntmaster vote us

You think we're lying about their being a reason to huntmaster vote us.....buuuut you might huntmaster vote us.




-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

But if you think random is more likely to be town, why wouldn't you vote for him?

If I'm town, why would I lie?


-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

So you have a stronger townread on random...but you might huntmaster vote us

You think we're lying about their being a reason to huntmaster vote us.....buuuut you might huntmaster vote us.

Yeah....and none of this contradicts each other.
If you are town it doesn't matter if you are lying about reason to be huntmaster.

It kinda does. If you have a stronger townread on random, then you should vote them for huntmaster. The exception would be if you have a stronger townread on them, but still a strongread on us, and think we're telling the truth about the benefit. In that case you may decide the benefit is worth voting for your 2nd choice rather than your first. However, if you both believe that we're less likely to be town AND that even IF we are town, there is a decent probability that there is no actual mechanical benefit, then you should vote for random.

I also pored over your ISO before I made that post just to be certain I hadn't missed a reply, and no...I hadn't missed a reply. You never said *why* you felt that post was me "pegging" D&D as scum.

Klingons party being chosen rather than random is a pretty fucking big deal. It means we may only extend any analysis regarding that position to kling alone, and means there is a high probability that there is at least one scum within the current party. IF you give Klingon the benefit of assuming she's town, since it's arguable that giving scum the ability to be the entire party on the first day at least might be a bit much, then it's not as high, but there's still a decent chance.

Klingon, I would like your reads on your hunting party please, given that you selected them specifically for your ability to develop reads on them. Words about the reads too please, even if it's something that came from the PT, at least let us know that it's because of PT interactions.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

please consider the viewpoints of others,

What "others" are you referring to? You seem to forget that there are also other suspects. We're not looking for a single scum person, but for a group of them. How do I know those providing the "input" are not out to mislead me? And why do their reads have any priority over mine??

Let me try to sum it up for you:

In this game I scum read an inactive slot (Starbuck) on D1. The "Town" ridiculed me. He was SCUM.

In this one I laid a trap on D1 and it caught 3dice. I was lynched myself on D1 instead of him, but he flipped SCUM still.

This one I successfully pegged Titus on D1, and almost got lynched for it. Ranger had my back though and we ended up lynching Titus.

In this game Ranger was scum though, so no wonder we lost. I did peg KT as scum though on D1 long before Ranger even replaced in, but he wasn't lynched bc nobody listened to me.

In this one I don't claim to have played well enough, but still got KT pegged on D1 (ranger took over and won the game for scum) and got shotty later on, and pretty much was responsible for his lynch despite his false claim.

In Killer Instinct It was Shinobi & SirCakez all the way for me. I gave in to others "input" though and I was NK'd before any of the scum was lynched.

Now even when I was scum myself on Soccer Spirits I still got DS from the opposing team pegged early on D1, and -again- nobody wanted to listed and many read him as town.

FA can also back my claim up that when I'm the Cop on the other site we play on (and I'm the Cop like 50% of the time there) My first night investigation almost always yields a guilty result.

Suffice it to say I'm spot on more than I'm wrong on my prime suspect on D1. And I'm not going to yield just bc you guys like ABR's play.

Now what really bugs me is that many of you are turning my one mere vote into an issue in a LARGE GAME on DAY ONE. It's not like I'm King and have the authority to lynch any given person all by myself! All I did was pin his vote, which does not even affect anyone else's vote.

Pinning his vote is anti-town as fuck. It means we can't examine his vote movements later on to evaluate his play. That's why people are making it a big deal.

Also, I loathe ABR's play. I think he's a toxic asshole who ruins every conversation he becomes a part of. However, I like his partners play.

-Cerb

pedit: Hmm. I need to give you some background on my thought process before I just give you a number. 10 is an IC. 9 is a cop clear from a flipped cop. 8 is a cop clear from an unflipped cop. A mason claim is also an 8. The cop clears may become less more or less trustworthy depending on the nature of the game, that is, hints at redirection/godfathers will decrease the certainty of those reads. Bascially, nothing that doesn't include mod confirmed information is greater than 7.

With all that said, he's about a 5.5-6 for me.

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Reasonably Irrational, thanks. That's slightly lower than I expected, but for the purposes of a base line, what's Yume on that same 1 - 10 scale?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Yume has not posted yet this game. I don't have any degree of certainty regarding any read on them, however, I would say everyone begins at 1.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Varsoon: Is that vote count correct? In particular regarding Reasonably Irrational on Patches the Spider?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Good catch--it should be properly updated now.
I missed their Fire Assassin vote in post 679.

But we never voted for patches. Why was our vote listed there :/

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

people who include themselves in their own readslists are my trigger

same

also pagetop

{Reasonably Irrational}
{Everyone else}

<3

-Cerb

P.S. Naw Nahdia leave A50 alone. I'm like, not seeing much scumminess from him, and no towniness really, but Elbirn think's he's town so *shrug* I'll be out for the day, sorry all, I slept all day and now I'm leaving. :(Gotta reread shadow_step and Fire Assassin, those are kinda the top suspects for Elbirn and myself right now(well, shadow_step is mine, and Elbirn put our vote on Fire Assassin, so I assume that's his, he kinda blamed it on just sheeping ABR so I need to see if there was an actual reason buried deep in his psyche).

MY FIRST SLIP DAMNIT!!!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

on a scale of 1 to Frozen Angel, who is gonna take those posts seriously/

Frozen Angel

On this note - I would also like Elbirn to post more. He's much easier for me to read then Cerb.
-Dragons

Everyone keeps insinuating that I'm not here and not posting and referring to this slot as just "cerb" and I really don't understand why



@Mixed: consensus seems to be shifting towards RI slot being huntmaster. Is there any reason why we should be rallying behind you instead? Are you a better candidate than us?

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Mixed6: agreed regarding the master of the hunt situation. We still believe we're the best choice, but we're not so opposed to you that it's worth distracting from play.

KC: why do you read those slots the way you do?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

OK let's ignore Huntsman discussion for now. We can talk about it later.
Would everyone mind listing three people they would be OK with lynching today?
Mixed6, Shinobi, Almost50

You want to lynch my Hunting Party?

You are so much Scum.

VOTE: Randomidget

I didn't actually know there was a hunting party at that point. It was a complete coincidence and really not a good reason for me to be scum.

The Party's been listed since the Post 6 vote count.

There's no reason for you not to have known.

This is what you call a town slip KC. Not something to be concerned about. Ignorance isn't a scum tell. Do you have any other scum reads? Have you looked at the echo chambers focuses, that is, shadow_step/shinobi/fire assassin?(A50 goes here too, but you already expressed your opinion there)

-Cerb

Pedit: it is mostly me posting, but that's cause I'm spammy and Elbirn is efficient.

[Reasonably Irrational]

This is what you call a town slip KC. Not something to be concerned about. Ignorance isn't a scum tell. Do you have any other scum reads? Have you looked at the echo chambers focuses, that is, shadow_step/shinobi/fire assassin?(A50 goes here too, but you already expressed your opinion there)

-Cerb

Feigned

ignorance

is

a Scumtell.

I was in an offsite game with Fire Assassin and FrozenAngel where Scum won mainly through lurking, so I'd be happy to lynch all lurkers here. Residual anger issue...

I haven't had the chance to go into associatives, R/L in Grand Central, once the holiday weekend's over I can ISO everyone.

Sure. But I'm not seeing the scum benefit to that whole move. Why would he even bother with the lie.

Also, can't you read me by now? Or if not me, Elbirn?

Also, Zorblag is 100% correct about everything he's said in the last page.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Rylai and Lina, he has stated that ability, yes. Albert B. Rampage is right when he says that should never have been brought up. We should drop it now.

Additionally, or on the other hand, as appropriate, I'm drunk, but sometimes town play is town play. I've just asked him not to be scum and I'm hoping he's reasonable and rational enough despite the user name to comply. Because clearly that's how this works, right?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

You wouldn't know this, but the name we have comes from a play on the name of my other hydra with Drixx, Reasonably Rational. Given that the difference here is that Drixx has been replaced with Elbirn, I think it's safe to say that you should expect me to be both reasonable and rational, while Elbirn may be a bit less so.

Just to be certain, i have double checked my role PM, and I have indeed succeeded in complying with your request. Regarding the lynchpin thing...ditto. In spite of assurances to the contrary, barring mod confirmation of someones alignment I'm always quite paranoid. Hopefully you're as town as you appear to be.

Rylai: Honestly, when have you ever seen me be mean? I've been a dick to ABR this game a bit, because he rubs me the wrong way because he's not a nice person more often than I'm comfortable with(and, for the record ABR, I apologize for the previous(and current, I suppose) comments. They were uncalled for and unproductive.), and I tend to be a bit abrasive with people when they do things which are either very dumb/do not make sense to me, or they simply refuse to understand something that seems straightforward to me. If you look back at our past experiences, you should see that those are pretty much the only times when I'm less than cordial to people. Those circumstances simply haven't really happened so far this game.

Also(and you're totally gonna call this one of those "doing what other slots want to see/trying to be a friend of each slot" things, but it's 100% true) like ABR, I'm extremely proud of you for walking away from the conversations that don't help the game out and are just a chance to draw you into an emotional whirlpool and ruin things. Really. The girl I played with the first time we played together, and the one you are right now, couldn't be more different in that regard. Well done.

Is anyone else around right now? I'm debating between looking into those ISO's I mentioned earlier and playing more Fallout 4, and actually having someone to chat with about the game is certainly going to make it feel more important to get that handled now.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I didn't thought you were ever mean. I never said that , not sure what gave you that idea. I'm just curios about the way Elbrin is so friendly with everyone and the way you announced your candidacy for being huntmaster is just bugging me.

and ty , I quit drinking alchohol and doing whatever I can to make myself a better person generally .

as I said whats bugging me about your slot is the way your bringing up case about everyone and lead the town in certain directions without putting yourself in a questionable position. you act with everyone the way the like.

or maybe thats just how I feel.

~Rylai

I think Elbirns always been friendly with everyone, in my experience at least? idk. :-/ And alright, idk, I wasn't actually going to bring up the huntmaster thing *at all* until we had seen how the day played out, but Mixed6 brought it up and I felt it was best to get involved at that ponit.

And I'm super glad to hear that. Not enough people try to better themselves. I know I certainly don't do nearly as much as I should.

SO, here's the thing: I don't really see that I'm actually doing a lot of leading. It's more like when people who weren't talking very much popped up, I prompted them to give their opinions on the current events, basically, the thing that we had the most material to work with, so I could see where they were coming from I don't *think* I actually started any of those conversations, but I did try to get everyone's thoughts nailed down as much as I could. I do get what you're saying about the "not putting myself in a questionable position thing" but I think that's more an artifact of the current echo chamber of the game, rather than anything I'm trying to do. There's a fairly sizable "town bloc" growing, and everyone within that bloc seems to be suspicious of the same group of players...and everyone within that bloc also happens to be the more active posters. I'm not really getting a lot of well reasoned contradictory positions regarding shadow_step for example, and that makes it so we're all just sitting in a circle and nodding at one another. I was actually talking to Elbirn earlier today about how much that concerns me. I mean, it's possible that maybe we're just REALLY fucking in sync, and town is recognizing one another, and the scum just aren't blending in, but I'm super fucking scared that we're just all pointed in the wrong direction, so scum don't have to do anything to try to distract us. :-/

Not sure what my objective was there, I'm just kinda rambling. I really really really need to read the ISO's of the people who are being generally scum read and specifically try to find redeeming qualities for them/engage with them more after doing so, just so I can make sure I'm not just blindly following along with a mob mentality ya know?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and I guess I interpreted your point that I'm just doing stuff what people want to see/being friendly as you thinking that normally I don't do that kinda thing/act more contrary, and just kinda interpreted that to mean I'm normally mean, since you said now we're being friendly. Does that make sense? I kinda threw it all together, and the best word I could come up with for the opposite of what you were saying was mean.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

I'm town reading Almost50 and Ranger. I feel like I want to town read RI, but Elbirn completely fooled me in Space Dandy, so I'm cautious.

I don't have a clue as to who my scum reads are yet though, but I have a bit of catch up to do right now.

Why are you town reading ranger? Just because of her first post about not wanting to claim or anything else?

Hey you. I was just talking about iso'ing you and interacting with you and stuff.

Share things with me. Give me a window into your mind.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spoiler: First half of Shadow_steps ISO, with some commentary and questions which I'd like him to respond to.

Had to read 7 pages in one go.

Super saturated.

VOTE: Xkfyu

This was dumb. What does super saturated even mean? Were you incapable of offering up any sort of commentary on the game so far at this point, or what?

I don't like this entrance at all. It doesn't add anything and has a vote on someone who hasn't been scummy at all.

Want to hear more from this slot.

Sure.

It's not a serious vote.

As to why I voted him, it's because we know each other from another gaming site.

Null, meaninglessness.

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

What was your objective with this question? What is your first thougth when you see someone self vote like that, and how does that position change if you have meta knowledge that they've done it before?

Wgeurts: I'm always this engaged...but it's rare that my engagement is as purposeful as it's been in this game, yes.

Shadow_step: Zulfy is the trolliest of trolls imo. I've never seen him self vote, but I've seen him do things which display a degree of incompetence such that I wouldn't put anything past him. A singular self vote, though, isn't a big deal. So, do you have any meaningful contributions to make? Your ISO is exactly as useless and empty as Zulfy's.

ABR: Stop it. Your other head is being reasonable, but you're ruining all of that and making me wish you'd just let them play without you.

-Cerb

pedit: Yay, a truce or something.

Since I'm not 100% on top of all game mechanics I will skip the "random" part (just in case someone can empower my vote to some degree or someone can lower the lynch threshold ridiculously).

I'm not really seeing this ^ as scummy as some others are.
There isn't much scum benefit in posting something like this.
Whatever little is there doesn't outweigh the risk. (IMO)

Valid. Now, did you mean you didn't see it as scummy at all, or that you just didn't see it as being AS scummy as others saw it?

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

XKFYU interaction again, noted.

@Shinobi, there are no threats there, I'm just letting you know what the situation is. You're acting scummy right now. I'm not being nice about it. You seem to be implying you've got more than just reads, though. Unless you think we're idiots we can probably handle leads. If you're not just blowing smoke and you want to help town here you should pick up your game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

No, I'm implying that I'm hard to read. Try asking your other head about it some time.
I'm not really trying to come off condescending or anything about it either - I've played this game for a long time and I'm so confusing that a surprisingly large number of players outright give up trying to read me after a few games.

I don't think that your case is that strong considering most of the people posting (aside from me apparently) look okay and there's very little separating the slew of current inactives warranting voting any of them over any others, which puts me in a weird spot considering

I don't really care who we lynch among them since, you know, they're not doing anything and they're not trying to move the game in any significant direction.

Lot of scum benefit than town, in getting players with lower activity lynched. As it generally means that town won't learn much.

Okay. This is the scummy thing that lots of people get all super suspicious of right? It is terrible, I agree. Let me school you on something here Shadow_step: when you get to the endgame, the last people town want alive are the ones who have done NOTHING all game long, who you have nothing to go off of when you're trying to figure out that crucial lylo lynch. Lynching for information is dumb, and that's basically what you're saying here. You're suggesting that it's more important to lynch active players because they offer more information, than it is to lynch inactive ones. Though I can somewhat see your perspective, the problems with that are twofold: One, by doing so, you stagnate the game, and leave it populated with players who aren't actually doing anything. Town apathy mounts, and scum easily win. Two, there is much to be said about inactivity as an indicator of scum play. It's much easier to be inactive than to actually engage with the game and have to fake it. There isn't necessarily any causation there(that's very dependent on the player) but there IS frequently a correlation.

You may have addressed this. If you have, I'll run into the post in this read through. If you haven't, please explain why you feel that lynching active players for information is more valuable than lynching slots who are innately more likely to be scum.

I think that we've got my top scum pick as of now. Congratulations! That takes some work. It's a lurker saying that going after lurkers is anti-town unless I'm not seeing what they're saying. Care to help me out?

What is this, RL day 3 of Day 1, neh?
The time during which the thread is mostly active also happens to be the time when I'm asleep.
I don't intend to clog the thread with stuff that's already been said and parrot people.

Well, then what do you have to say that hasn't already been said? Do you agree with EVERYTHING that had been said up to that point? You don't have to clog the thread and parrot people in order to establish which side of the various issues you support, and we NEED you to share that information with us, so please do.

Just tell me what your reads are.

I'm reading Almost 50 as town(slightly) because of the reasons stated in #221.
It's relatively easy to jump on his wagon right now, I think there is at least one scum on his wagon.
Sensei most probably, never explained his vote on A50.

Nahdia seems to be getting a free ride so far for her weird posting style, which apparently she does a lot as town, which she can easily duplicate as scum too. Weak vote on A50 before, now she's voting RI for meta reasons.

i HATE META.

So what the fuck is going on?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sensei

How well do you know Sensei? Have you played with him before? Same with Nahdia. Do you know she can easily duplicate what she does as scum? Are you simply assuming a certain level of competence from her? If that's the case, why aren't you assuming Sensei is competent enough to state a reason for his vote, as scum, in an environment where many others had already stated reasons to vote A50. Is it really scummy to not "parrot" others, as you refuse to do yourself? Do you demand that every vote be accompanied by a decent explanation, or are there occasions where context is sufficent for you to understand why someone made a vote?

instead of assuming I'm some drooling idiot who couldn't bullshit up something about him looking like a glob of fake or whatever if I were scum.

Why can't I make that assumption?

Why would you make that assumption about him, but not about Nahdia?

A better question is - why would you?

You don't want to assume, you want to understand my motivation for doing things.

Or do you?

You expect me to assume that you have a legit reason to vote A50, but I cannot make this assumption?

It's your job to explain why you are voting someone, neh?

Agreed on that, btw, in spite of my earlier prodding about it. I hate when people just make naked votes, but I find it more productive to ask the individual in question why they made the vote. Read their ISO, look at the context, and question them to see if what they say makes sense. I don't understand why you'd jump to the assumption that Sensei is scum wholly because he made a blank vote.

I'll have the rest up in the morning, unless he actually shows up and responds to this portion before I go to sleep.
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't have much to say to people who have already decided that I'm scum.
Sensei is coming off as really arrogant scum to me right now. Surely he couldn't be this confident about me flipping scum if he was town. I would love to see his reaction after my flip(I wish could).

Shinobi wasn't bothered at all, before Mixed asked him to pressure lurkers, his initial vote on me was a "pressure" vote, he's decided to keep it there cause idk it's convenient maybe?

Bogre and Nahdia are both voting me because of Sensei's case on me which is kinda lame if they are town they shouldn't be so easily led.

I haven't decided that you're scum. I'd think that as any alignment, you would want to engage with the people attacking you and show them how wrong they are. Alternatively, I'd think you'd want to just ignore them, and go on actively scumhunting and make yourself useful, and prove yourself through your play.

You're not doing either of those things. You're saying it's because of the time zone you play in, but that's certainly not the reason. There have been plenty of occasions where our most active slots have been around at all times of day, you simply haven't chosen to participate as far as I can tell.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Who was that who claimed that KC is most probably town, since she is the current huntmaster and got to decide her hunting party?
Don't remember what page it was.

Anyway I don't like that logic, simply cause its entirely possible that she is scum and there was a limit on the amount of scum buddies she could have included on her party.

Add to the fact that (IMO) she has avoided all the major discussions mainly and has answered all the easy peasy stuff thrown at her,

I'm reading her as nullish scum.

I was the one who said the thing closest to what you just described, but I did not say that. What I said was IF we assume she's town, which is something that COULD be argued as probable due to balance reasons(which is something we don't have enough information to discuss at this point), then it's less likely that there are scum within the current party. My point here was that if we attribute a probtown status to her due to her role, then the pool of slots which each have ~25% chance of being scum is only 3 slots large, rather than 4, making it more likely that the entire set is town.

It was an exercise in probability, not a ringing endorsement of her towniness.

Are you familiar with KC and her play?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spoiler: Second half of Shadow_steps ISO

You voted RI for some crappy "this entrance is too safe" reasons, and then backed off when you realised the wagon wasn't going anywhere, saying "meh".
You're vote on A50 seems completely opportunistic.

Now you're OMGUS voting me ofc.

Good, only quote the bits you can answer.

*slow claps*

These three quotes are sorta lacking in any sort of value. Sensei actually said why he backed off, he attributed it to the play of this head of the hydra, versus the play of the other head.

You expect me to assume that you have a legit reason to vote A50, but I cannot make this assumption?

No, I just said. I don't think that you should assume anything and asked me for my reason first.

Feel like we're talking past each other a bit.

Are you thinking anyone besides me is scum?

okay, first things first then.

What was your reason to vote him?

Leaning scum on Nahdia, mixed6 and Shinobi.

The whole conversation Nahdia and Mixed6 had from 14-16 looks staged to me.

for instance, this is how she reacted when asked something by Shinobi

It was a bad post.

I'm going to need a little more than that, you know.

UUUUUUUHHHHHGGGG FINE.

It seemed overly paranoid and disingenuous.

This is how she reacted when mixed6 attacked her

Forgot how overwhelmed I feel on Day 1 of large games :\

Scumvibes from Mixed6.

This is bullshit and I'm going to call you out on it right away.

Why are you voting with us from randomidget to almost50?

Wtf is scum vibes, it sounds like you made that shit up for the sake of attacking anyone. We are two active heads and you can't be more specific? And you keep voting with is?

Stand the fuck down and recant immediately.

Rampage

I read the thread. Something about you pinged me. That's scumvibes. It's a gut feeling. I don't really feel like picking apart your posts because stuff this early is bullshit and I fucking suck at scumhunting anyway so it's just what I think and I'm so freaking sorry for outting my single freaking thought on the game state. Let me just step off and start making purely mechanical posts, would that please you?

Seems to have more patience when talking to mixed6 than with anyone else.

THIS! Now this is actually of value. Did Nahdia ever respond to you about why she was so much more patient with Mixed6 here? She's definitely inconsistent in the way she reacts to things in general, but that inconsistency is generally consistent. When people are being stupid or attacking her for dumb reasons, she gets much more vocal/agitated/snarky than when someone is actually making sense and being reasonable(in my experience). In the set of posts above, I see snarky Nahdia, and then I see snarky Nahdia again, actually. I don't think I see what you do there, I just think the form of her being a smart ass changed between the two posts.

Would it be accurate to say that at this point in the game, you were looking at a Sensei/Mixed6/Nahdia/Shinobi scum team? How has that changed over time? Any of those reads moved anywhere? Why?

Shadow why are you only bringing up this "opportunistic vote" over 10 pages after it was made?

-Dragons

I hadn't read his ISO before today, didn't have much time to post properly earlier.

What other ISO's have you read/what other slots have you spent time analyzing?

What was your reason to vote him?

Well if you were paying attention you'd have noticed I already answered this.

His readwall back on whatever page it was where he threw out like 10 townreads based on nothing and didn't call anyone scum looked like trying to make friends a bit. Or rather not someone really looking for scum.

But I don't know though, the fake dayvig on nahdia and then him sorta dissecting his own wagon sorta looked town later on so meh.

Decided to move on to different things.

Yeah, I was typing #446 when you replied.

the fake dayvig on nahdia

I think you're talking about A50 here?

You were typing 446 when I answered wgeurts on pg 17?

I was referring to this

We'll have to just agree to disagree about my original reasons for voting RI.

Don't know why you didn't bring this up sooner?

I backed off because Cerb is carrying the hydra super hard right now and he looks town.

blah blah clarification back and forth with Sensei nothing of note here.

@Shadow - step

You think Nahdia has more patience for Mix6? - with a post like 'UGGHHHH FINE' ? Because it seems like at least ABR portion of hydra and Nahdia -definitely- did not have much patience for one another.

Is that where your presumption of it being staged is coming from, or somewhere else?

to be clear are you scum reading nahdia becuase of her style of posting and her wordings?

~Rylai

Nope

Question to anyone who has played with Zulfy before.

Does he tend to self vote a lot ?

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

so why'd you ask these if you followed up on neither of them.

i dislike Shadow but not really for the reasons ive seen other people saying. he's doing the "asking questions and then not caring about the answers" thingie. also has misrepped me a few times with regards to my RI vote and my interaction with Mixed6. the stuff about defending lurkers is less alignment indicative; i've done that as town. minicase in 408 is good.

VOTE: Shadow_step

Say what ?

XK hasn't answered that yet.
About Zulfy, what do you expect me to reply "okay" to the 3-4 people who have replied to that ?

There was hardly anything to follow up to that.

Following up on something is as simple as reiterating the question if you see them speak without answering it. You also never expressed WHY you were asking that question and what it's significance was to you. That makes it appear as though you're just asking questions for the sake of asking them. If you don't tell us why you're asking the question, it seems like you're just attempting to look busy.

So, why did you ask them? What sort of reads from XK would you have expected and in what way? Were you intending to sheep his reads because you believed he was town, or did you believe his reads would allow you to determine if he was town or not? If so, how would you have done that?

XK hasn't answered that yet.
About Zulfy, what do you expect me to reply "okay" to the 3-4 people who have replied to that ?

There was hardly anything to follow up to that.

What followup do you expect to have with XK's reads? What did the answers you got about Zulfy tell you? What are you doing to try to do anything >_>

You don't seem like you're trying to find scum, that's my inclination so far. You seem like you're asking questions to that deflect attention but hopefully make it look like you're doing stuff. Same thing RI is doing except RI at the very least seems proactive and engaged. I'm watching development there closely tho. Wanna fight?

Gee Willikers would also be a good huntmaster candidate. Forgot them earlier.

I find it extremely unlikely that "all" 6 hydras are town, don't you?

Gambler's fallacy is knocking at your door friend.

Not quite what Gambler's Fallacy means but close enough

His reads will help me read

him

better.

I would have considered self voting scummy if people hadn't pointed out that Zulfy is apparently very trollish.
So I didn't pursue that further. Is there anything improbable here ?

Cool, answer to the previous questions, FINALLY. How have his reads helped you read him so far? In what way? Do you expect his reads to match your own? Differ significantly? Are you looking for the REASONS/lack thereof, or do you just care about the existence of a read?

@ Xkfyu any town/scum reads so far ?

I'm town reading Almost50 and Ranger. I feel like I want to town read RI, but Elbirn completely fooled me in Space Dandy, so I'm cautious.

I don't have a clue as to who my scum reads are yet though, but I have a bit of catch up to do right now.

Why are you town reading ranger? Just because of her first post about not wanting to claim or anything else?

Why do you only ask about Ranger? He mentioned 3 slots here.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I haven't played with anyone before cerb, except XK. So whatever my thoughts are not affected by meta.
Is that how she generally plays ?
Can you see where I'm coming from ?

KC tends to play like this in the early game, yes. And she CLAIMS to get better in the late game, but honestly I've never really seen it happen yet. :)Of course, I think she's always been scum every time I've seen her live later in the game, so it's not a situation I can really analyze properly. In any case, meta is crap.

How is what she's doing any different from how you're playing? Why shouldn't everyone be scum reading you for being similarly uninvolved? You've had pressure on you which you've addressed to some extent, but you've ignored everything else in the game.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Nahdia: in general, I view ignorance of the game state as something which is far more likely to come from town than scum, because scum have 4+ eyes on the thread, and it's thus very likely that any given piece of public information has been discussed at least in passing in the scum pt.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I wasn't paying enough attention to A50 in Soccer Spirits since I died D1, so I can't really comment on that. But as I said, Elbirn calls him town, so sure.

How does everyone feel about shadow_steps responses to my questioning? It wasn't exactly the most..in depth response, but it was something at least.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Klingon

So kling, if you chose your party based on people you can read and have experience with, why didn't you choose my slot? You and I have played many games together, and cerb as well I believe.

-Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

D&D: I disagree. I actually had that thought earlier. Unless we have good reason to think KC is scum, it's likely that succeeding at the chalice dungeon tonight will be of more benefit to town than scum, so it's in our best interests to maximize their chance of success by not decreasing the size of the party without VERY good reason to do so.

Of course, if she's scum, then it's certainly worse for them to succeed. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other regarding the slot. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

So I talked to Elbirn, and this is what should be happening, really. I was kinda giving them the benefit of the doubt and considering Jan's virtual V/LA, but fuck it, they've done fuck all, and the slot has two heads for a reason.

VOTE: Hastur and Muriel

Come play mafia with us and give me a reason to not actually try to get you lynched with every bit of persuasion available to me.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh boy a thing!

Here is, for everyone's convenience, h&m's iso. It is 4 posts long. Let's read.

Spoiler:

Hastur head here. I'm liking RI so far. Not a big fan of Ranger's entrance, because "I'd claim but the setup discourages claiming" is ultimately meaningless but nudges people towards thinking "town." Not enough to form a read, but enough to have me looking in that direction.

Also, two spider-related roles is two too many, so I'm at least hoping the two are connected. Did anyone notice WHEN Patches was added to the playerlist? Prequel phase? Start of Day 1? After the Spider Vote was placed? Could be relevant. Although, possibly not, since Patches is listed as not voting. Equally interesting is that the vote on us is just listed in the VC as [Spider], not adding the D&D player name. Not sure if that's standard for extra votes (i.e if a Fire or Bolt vote would display the same way), but if not, that could be important. I also don't really see revealing the Spider Vote as giving D&D credit either way.

Do believe that's all for now, especially seeing as it's nearly 2 in the morning.

-HD

HD: I did not notice when Patches was added. They were definitely there at the start of D1, given that the very first VC posted by Varsoon to start the day off, with the list of players and the status of everythiing, includes Patches the Spider.

Oh, so it does... although that post was edited, but that was two hours later. Thank you for pointing that out, though, because while that initial votecount does include Patches, it doesn't list D&D as "Not Voting." So however their lack of vote works, it's enough that they aren't even counted there.

-HD

Hi everyone! Muriel head here!

Overall, the reads have been pretty much null in my eyes. I find Shinobi to be scummy. I’m not sure how much I believe the “I’m disengaged as town” excuse, although this is my first game with Shinobi. Seems I’m not the only one to see him as scummy though.

The person without a vote that Cerb referenced near the start of the game was me. It was certainly a pain, however I chose not to reveal it right away.

D&D can you tell me why you chose to not keep it a secret specifically? Or was it really just a feeling that revealing that would be a proper town thing to do?

Something else that concerns me is the differences between my role in Space Dandy II, and the role that D&D has. Does your voting mechanic prohibit you from reaping any rewards after the lynch? Or would the spider vote allow you to get the blood echoes still? I’m attempting to look at this from every angle.

RI is looking town to me although Space Dandy II was my only interaction with either of them and Cerb was town while Elbirn was scum, and I can say that both of them appear to be playing similarly here although Elbirn simply strikes me as the easygoing type regardless of alignment.

And now a personal note, I've been busy and I’m still gonna be unable to post for a few days, my boyfriend is at my house and it’s almost my birthday and as such I trust my other head to hold down the fort for a bit. (Glad to know I'm not the only one to use that phrase ;3)

~Jan :3

Oh whoops, forgot to add that I actually wrote that post last night before sleeping and thus the reads are already a smidge out of date although they were my thoughts as of last night. I'll revise them/Hobbes might revise them as soon as possible.

~ Jan

Posts 1 & 2 (HobbesDuncan): "RI is town *whuup dee doo*, let's throw doubt on ranger and d&d for some reason, here's a wall of mechanical speculation that means absofuckinglutely nothing and bears zero relevance on anything"

Posts 3 & 4: (SugarJan): "Everyone is null. Shinobi is scummy for a reason I won't give. Let's note that other people think he's scummy. Yes I am one of you notice me senpaii I think Shinobi scum too yup totes *such blending in* here's more of that useless mechanical questioning, comparing two completely different roles for some reason and deciding that makes d&d 'concerning'. RI seems town because of *wishy washy bullcrap that says nothing* I am now going to make excuses for going away instead of just going away because I am concerned about appearances. Also I typed this post in my scum chat and copy pasted it here, I didn't need to revise my thoughts on anything because I have none."


Fite me irl
1v1

Gladiate: Hastur & Muriel

~☆Elbirn

[Reasonably Irrational]

If varsoon loves me he'll edit in a signature for that post and delete this one before anyone replies to it

~☆Elbirn

Elbirn, I do love you, but not enough to go against my policy on deleting posts.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I can accept this lynch too.

I don't remember that slot at all...

~Rylai

I also remember questioning Sensai on this topic but I'm still sorta okay jumping onto this wagon as well considering that the slot has done nothing and called me mafia because of some nonexistent reason.

Me likes this vote
Me would join but they posted a huge catchup
-Dragons

Dear God this resistance fuck me

Okay you first two, I don't know what you think you're doing sending my wagon good vibes but not actually getting involved. Your faux support whilst not getting on board is slimy and I expect votes on h&m in your next posts.

And you D&D, idk what the hell this is. You like the vote...but oh they caught up so nah.

Literally

What?

You don't even say that you liked what Hobbes had to say or expressed any opinion, just "oh they caught up so they're good now"

CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKERS THIS IS HAPPENING

i assumed the gladiate was a joke. my gladiates always are.

Shhh bb *pets face*

H&M's catchup post was fine. i like most of the reads there though admittedly they're kind of "easy" at this point. there are other lurker lynches i would prefer if that's what we end up going for.

the only hesitation i have is that i remember Shinobi as an intelligent, sneaky dude. so i'd kind of expect a bit more subtly, but maybe appearing audacious is his angle.

don't see why town!shinobi takes this position tho. i see no reason to latch onto Elbrin's H&M "push" when really RI was just trying to make H&M participate. calling the bluff.

VOTE: Shinobi

Hobbes catchup was contentless garbage, what in the world makes it good? It was a mountain of nothing, a reaction to a wee bit of pressure.

Then you discard my read by assuming I'm TrollMaster2017 and actually just want h&m to play? Not cool dude. We're burying h&m today get on board

If you've got more to say about a slot that's posted maybe 5 times then by all means dazzle me.

I mean

I did.

:3

-Elbirn (hey I remembered this time!)

[Reasonably Irrational]

The ? is an important thing.
D&D, why are you acting like you don't have a vote? Just because your name isn't there, Varsoon confirmed it will benefit you the same way a normal vote would, and it seems to be counting the same as a normal vote. Therefore, your opinions are worth exactly as much as anyone elses. Also, and you don't need to answer this because it might be a dumb thing to reveal, but for future hunting party composition it might be important: can you other weapons/items to vote? Feel free to not answer, but think about it, cuz if you can never provide more than 1 vote worth of power to a party, that means we need to make sure we don't risk going on a hunt at a higher level with you as part of the party.

Dwlee: I am currently assuming you've read nothing except the back and forth since you said you wanted people to talk to you about the game. If that's correct, I'm not going to waste time talking to you when I could talk to wgeurts, who has actually read the game (probably twice by now). If you have anything to offer the game, offer it and we'll judge it's merits, but I'm not going to spoon feed you commentary on the game state.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and the actual pushing posts against H&M came from Elbirn, not me, but I agree with them.

They still need to die. The last post did not inspire confidence.

-Cerb

@Shinobi: not sarcasm at all. People usually have a reason for putting a ? next to a name in a readslist, it generally indicates uncertainty of some sort. It's a reasonable thing to ask about. If you don't have a reason for why you put it there, that's fine, but there would normally be some sort of explanation attached to it.

[Reasonably Irrational]

No. H&M.

-Cerb

Pedit: ...seriously lilith? Me noting that it was reasonable to ask someone why yhey put a question mark next to a name in a reads list skeeved you out? Please use your words and explain what you mean.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I had the intention of voting random(idget) with the reason being it's a "random" vote. Seeing he already had been voted twice though I chickened. I read something in the frequently asked questions that made me second think the whole process of "random voting" and/or even "voting for pressure". the thing I'm referring to is someone with "bolt" could count for 5 votes all by their own. That combined with the game I've just finished (with many of those involved in this game) that had double voting mechanics, vote stealing mechanics and threshold messing mechanics ... *Shrug* I just didn't want to take a chance this early into the game (at least not until I know what I'm doing in the first place).

VOTE: Almost50

This vote seems sort of unprompted to me. Why?

Arg!
In a normal game, I'd be claiming, but Varsoon specifically warned us against doing that. :/

Just...keep it in mind.

I don't like this post - it's generic albeit useless advice made to appear helpful when it isn't.
VOTE: ranger

I'd like you, Shinobi, to compare and contrast your own vote with that of Nahdia. Why is yours okay, while her vote is "weak, and generic, IE the type of thing mafia would come up with."?

-Cerb

i'm not going to pour my heart into analysis of literally A50's first post. it was fake sounded so i placed a vote there. step OFF, lamer.

Why not? I mean, it clearly meant *something* to you. You should be able to articulate that thing.

I'm TORN on it. It does seem a bit contrived, but if you take it at face value, it's reasonably townie.

-Cerb

EBWOP.

-Cerb

Nahdia, should I be on your side in this conversation? I feel like Shinobi is being dumb about both your post, and Rangers, but...idk. Not sure what my objective was when I started typing this, other than to say hi.

Talk to me about something.

-Cerb

The posts in question. Cakez is right in that I do tend to play devils advocate, primarily because no matter how strong my town read is on someone, I want them on the record about exactly why they feel the way they do about some particular issue. I could always be wrong. Plus, I like to try to determine the value of actions taken from the perspective of both someone playing as scum, and them playing as town.

In the Nahdia and Shinobi conversation, I actually have issues with both of their posts. I don't see why Shinobi felt he could attack Nahdia's vote was unsubstantiated when he made one which was equally unsubstantiated, and I pushed Nahdia because even though Shinobi's attack was hypocritical, I still wanted her to explain that particular point in more depth if at all possible.

With this most recent exchange between Shinobi and yourself, I just thought him saying things to the effect that you were overreacting regarding the question mark was simply wrong. The presence or absence of a question mark in that context can be extremely significant, so you asking him about it is perfectly reasonable. His defensiveness about the subject was over the top, but if he says there is no reason for the question mark, there's not much more for us to say on the subject.

Regarding the read on your slot, which is mostly mechanical+your early claim: There are only two reasons why I believe scum you would claim your hidden voting power. 1) You assumed people would simply connect the floating extra vote to your claimed voteless slot if you ever used it, thereby forcing you to never vote all game/never reap any benefits from lynches, and that loss of potential power and influence wasn't worth it, or 2) Because you knew it was what a town slot would do in this situation.

Now, I need to gauge whether or not you would believe the townread you would garner from being "voteless"+the ability to spring an unexpected vote on the town and hammer for a win in the late game outweighs the benefits of being able to lynch throughout the game/be invited on hunting parties since you can contribute/the town read you gain from outing that information.

I believe scum you would opt to pretend to be voteless. I may be wrong in how you'd evaluate the situation, but that's my evaluation. Therefore, your decision to out that information makes you probtown.

I'm just outlining this to illustrate to you that my process is far from arbitrary.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Shinobi:

My read on you is based on the colour of the test at the top of your role card. It's RED and that's SCUM.

But really, I have a negative impression of your play here, as it feels more similar than not to your play in Killer Instinct. You were scum in that game and your play here is a lot similar, so I'm scum reading you.

This is the second time(Ranger was the first) that someone has compared his play here to Killer Instinct.

Give me details.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

This game has too much low hanging fruit. Bogre, H&M, toog, pv, and now this new hydra. All apparently mislynch bait, either based on their past play, or simply because they're not giving anyone any reason to town read them.

This concerns me. They can't all be bad scum. :/

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Ranger, please use words to tell me why Toog is scum. I can certainly see it as a possibility, but I don't see why they couldn't just be bad town.

Also tell me why KC is so town. KC's alignment is pretty important.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm really fucking sad about this game now. I don't even know Fire Assassin, but this bothers me a lot.

I'm sorry.

I'll be back tomorrow to play and address the things people have asked me.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, god. Is there drama that I'm about to read?

Unfortunately. Only a page of it though, game is mostly content heavy honestly.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

(Toogeloo, Randomidget, Fire Assassin, Rylai and Lina)
(Ranger, Zulfy, Shadow_Step, Shinobi)
(Almost50, Daenerys and Dragons, Klingoncelt, Mixed6, Reasonably Irrational)
(PeregrineV, Xkyfu, Yume, Hastur and Muriel)
(Gee Willikers, Nahdia)
(Patches the Spider, Sensei, Bogre)

There ya go...

Actually looking at the list again, move Ranger and Zulfy down, and everyone on the third line up to the second line.

Reasons for the reads please? Most interested in the shadow/shinobi/Gee Willikers/Nahdia reads, since I disagree on those pretty seriously. Like, those reads make your list really really bad.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Hey everyone I'm back. Deprioritized mafia and probably shouldn't have, ah well. There were a couple questions asked of me so I'll address that. *shrug*.

This game has too much low hanging fruit. Bogre, H&M, toog, pv, and now this new hydra. All apparently mislynch bait, either based on their past play, or simply because they're not giving anyone any reason to town read them.

This concerns me. They can't all be bad scum. :/

-Cerb

The posts like this concerns me about you cerb.

I don't like the way you just come and mark all the main wagons of game as "lynch bait" and while your pushing them too , trying to make a bad feeling about pushing them. This kind of behavior is "pre flip sympathy" and make me feel you have pre flip knowledge about the pushes.

I like your response to this

~Rylai

I'm not sure what response you want me to give to this? You know how I feel about feelings. I don't like them. So, umm, x makes you feel y doesn't do anything for me. I'm stating facts about those slots. Slots that don't engage with the game, as those slots aren't(for the most part) are extremely hard to accurately read, and extremely likely to cause a loss in LYLO if they live that long. It's dumb to just go lynching them all willy-nilly though, because it's unlikely they're all(or even *mostly*) scum, cuz math, but if we don't deal with them, they'll just always be...there, unreadable and problematic.

Also, for the record, the main wagons of the game have been shinobi and shadow_step. So it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that I'm actually dissuading any wagons that are actually being actively pushed to any strong degree. In addition, the fact that I want H&M dead at this stage in the game, in spite of including them in that list, is something you should THINK about more, rather than just assuming there's some sort of scum motivation. There's a reason why I am pushing that SPECIFIC slot in this game, among the group of lurky mclurkers: Elbirn was the scum partner of one of the heads in the last game we played(thus, I'd be willing to bet he'll be able to pick up on tonal differences between the way the HD head posted in their scum PT, and the way he posted in the main game), and because of my limited experience with both heads, among EVERYONE who is being lurky, they are the ones whose posting style is most likely to lead to actual content when they respond, whether they're scum or not. If they're town, they'll throw out real commentary about things. If they're scum, because it's what they'd do as town, they'll still throw out lengthy commentary, which is helpful whenever they flip.

In short, yes, they're on that list, but the reason why I'm pushing them in particular over anyone else is a lot more complex than just "herp derp, they're lurking, push them!"

scumhunting seemed a bit faked (the walls of questions and not much sorting as i recall). a bit too diplomatic (i think that's what u were getting at). and after all the questioning and such the slot has done they push a lurker slot.

RI whenever ur around what's your current thoughts on shadow_step? im totes goin' somewhere with this promise.

Umm.

Did you miss that I went through his entire ISO giving my thoughts on everything? Or the fact that his responses were all fluffy and dismissive? The main problem I see is the inconsistency between the BoP he placed on Sensei and yourself. He assumed you would be competent, while simultaneously assuming Sensei would be incompetent, in spite of knowing nothing about either of you. It's possible that this was caused by a low level reaction to the way you both play(Nahdia posts lots, therefore good at mafia, Sensei posts less, therefore bad), so I hesitate to demand his head over it, but it looks pretty bad. Nothing else is overtly scummy or alarming, I don't believe. At least, not in a way I can vocalize. Elbirn and I are willing to vote him, but we're more concerned with the H&M situation for the time being. Although actually he and I haven't spoken since we've both been gone from the thread, so that may change after further discussion.

Mixed6: Again, everything Zorblag head is saying is perfectly correct. Anyone who is giving credit to H&M for posting a modicum of difficult to read analysis without arriving at ANY conclusions about ANYONE in response to *two* of the most vocal individuals in the game expressing a willingness to vote them/desire to push them is making a mistake. It could very well be town, but it's the simplest thing to do as scum. We need them here, and talking to us.

I'm going to grab the H&M catchup posts(what little they did) and add post links for anyone who wants to actually go through that and respond to it. Not sure I feel up to actually addressing everything in it right now, but I'll at least do that little bit of prep work to make it easy for me to look at and evaluate.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

H&M's catchup posts, with post links added.

...Well, that's one way to finally get me to stop procrastinating and pay attention, thank you RI.

3 a.m

4 a.m

5 a.m dammit

6 a.m whyyyy catchup and giant wall, let's go. I'll have

final

partially complete thoughts at the bottom, but if you want thought process, (which will have some recap) feel free to open the spoilerbox.

Spoiler: From the Very Start: Pages 1-33

Page 1- 23 is the only one that stands out. The concept they're worried about is unlikely, but the paranoia is plausible.
Page 2- RI still looks town, still not a fan of 47. Also don't think D&D's ability claim makes them look like any alignment.
Page 3- 51 is fine, 53, 56, and 58 don't read well to me. 72 actually makes a lot of sense.
Page 4- Okay, Ranger and R&L have both claimed NU... I guess consider this page-by-page notes, as well. Xkyfu has also claimed NU.
Page 5- the puns in 103 are lynch-worthy on their own, but the reads are fine. The Huntmaster vote didn't strike me as odd, but the points people are making about it are good. Liking 113.
Page 6- Disagreeing with the reasoning in 127, especially in light of how D&D's vote works. 133 is kinda nonsensical, but I remember that gets brought up later. We shall see! 137 is good. And there it is, 139 points out the issue with 133.
Page 7- Mm. I suppose 154 is a fair explanation, but it's... not strong. 155, though, is clearly obvscum, lynch that. (By which I mean, it's mine and I'm being humorous- although I will say that having looked at things besides the vote on our slot more carefully, I'm rescinding my opinion on Ranger.) Answering 169- D&D were not in the "not voting" pile even BEFORE they had voted. Which means their revealing that ability isn't particularly town-aligned, 'cause someone would've figured it out.
Page 8-185 answers the bit of mechanical wondering I had about the spider vote, that's good. 195 is... not my favorite. 196 is good. Actually just not liking Bogre this page.
Page 9- Iiiiii am not a fan of ABR's playstyle, but people are saying it's their town play, so... not scumreading, but you won't seem me voting that slot for Huntmaster any time soon. Gee Willikers and Nahdia are both reading fine to me, but I disagree with GW about Cerb.
Page 10- Toogeloo isn't reading well to me. 235 also doesn't make much sense. 236... I'm just making a note of that, I guess, but somehow admitting to being a nightmare host doesn't strike me as a good thing. 238 makes me regret trying to read 50 pages of thread in one sitting starting at 3 a.m., but otherwise I like it. Townreading GW at this point.
Page 11- @252, while I actually was skimming the game at that point, the spider vote stuff was the main thing I WAS paying attention to. You're misinterpreting. Deliberately? Hm. As to asking you directly, beats me, call it a playstyle difference or call it late night posting, because apparently I'm only productive when I'm tired and hungry. And now 261 is interesting, far more interesting than 262. Guessing a role name? Just bullshitting? It does come across as COMPLETELY different from their previous play, I must say. 268... how is a nearly random dayvig town? I don't get this?
Page 12- 278 reads well to me. 279 bothers me just because it doesn't give reasoning or actually push for anything. Role ability, maybe? I'd guess role-related. 285 is another post that makes me regret what I'm doing at the moment. But it still points to town Cerb, basically unless something changes I'm townreading that slot. 289... I disagree with their reasoning, and still feel like nightmares don't sound like town abilities, but sure, okay, their reasoning at least sounds like something they're actually thinking, not made up.
Page 13- Regretting this already. Anyway, RI/M6 competition for Huntmaster... well, if you're this far along, you know who I'd back for that. Still think D&D are pretty null overall. 317 is good. 323 is not good, I personally am just as paranoid as scum as I am as town... or maybe that's just me.
Page 14- I am filled with regret. 330, while it sounds good, doesn't actually add much. Very vague. 340... nope, sorry Nahdia, 'fraid we aren't doing anything. We'll try, though. 349 is kinda strange, why ask Xkyfu in particular?
Page 15- Klingon is thoroughly null at this point. Not much else on this page.
Page 16- I continue to regret still being awake. 388 is good. 390 has my attention, let's see where that goes. 392... hm. Mysterious. Wonder what happened. Dangit this whole page is subtly hinting at stuff. Booo.
Page 17- I'm liking Sensei and R&L on this page.
Page 18- D&D is looking more town, I'll bump them up off of the null list. I think I'm hitting my second wind, feeling a little more awake. While I disagree with Shadow's reads here, I'm not scumreading them for it. Bogre is getting a little better, still leaning scum on them though.
Page 19- Page 16 mystery is "resolved" without explanation. My curiosity is piqued even further. Siding with Nahdia on the Nahdia/Shadow debate that seems to be forming at the moment.
Page 20- More references to the mystery. This way lies madness, my friends. Almost50's bowblade was definitely some kind of actual ability, I think. Curious. The vehemence in 492 also seems a bit unusual to me. As of the end of this page, whatever mystery stuff RI and Random have going is keeping me interested. Guess I'm gonna keep reading.
Page 21- Hmm. Nothing to say here. Gonna see how this conversation unfolds.
Page 22- Shinobi/Fire Assassin interaction has FA reading better and Shinobi reading worse. Not sure why FA doesn't want Mixed to get the Huntmaster vote? But then, I'd probably prefer they don't get it as well, so I can't complain.
Page 23- Well, Cerb is finally settling on Random as town... and it's morning now. Not getting anything in particular over these last few pages, mostly because they're all part of one faster-moving conversation. General reads are building, though.
Page 24- Not a fan of ABR's playstyle, but they aren't looking scummy. This page has no real info.
Page 25- Toogeloo's 621 is doing nothing to make me think they're town. Liking D&D more for seeing it the same way.
Page 26- Yeah, I can see why people are disliking Almost here. They're still kinda null, but I'm watching to see how this unfolds now.
Page 27- Yeah, not liking Almost here. Still not liking Zulfy. 664 comes completely out of nowhere. Bogre... I'm less certain on Bogre, now, but still not townreading them.
Page 28- And Almost breaks out the Bowblade again? Really quite curious to find out what this is all about. RI's vote on FA I can understand even though I'm townreading both slots, still not seeing why M6 did that. Did Almost finish that off by claiming the ability was to force someone to be unable to unvote?
Page 29- Okay, Almost is seeming not-scum again. I'll promote them to a null/uncertain read. And oh look, it's my other head! Hello, other head. I completely failed to hold down the fort in your absence, sorry about that. Really though why am I pulling an all-nighter for this game. Xkyfu mentioned townreading Ranger, I don't even remember when Ranger last posted. Let's see how their catchup goes.
Page 30- Oh look, it's Ranger. Hi Ranger. I have no reads on you at the moment. And Klingon appears at the end. Otherwise, the page is pretty much meaningless.
Page 31- Wasn't the Hunting Party predetermined? Also the VC at the top of this page might've revealed the effect of the Bowblade. Not gonna go back and see what it does, I'm sure somebody will pick up on it. Liking R&L's catchup, I think.
Page 32- Nobody has mentioned that the Bowblade is in the VC, now? And, ooh, a new ability. Wonder what it does. Still preferring R&L to Shinobi anyway.
Page 33- I got nothing out of this, might be time to call it a night. Or, morning, now. Good night/morning, everybody. I'll get the other 22 pages after some sleep.

As of Page: 33
Currently liking RI, M6, GW, Sensei, R&L, Nahdia, D&D, FA, Random
Not liking Toogeloo, Zulfy, Bogre, shadow.
Everyone else is null or uncertain
Whoop-de-doo, be back soon, be fully caught up and actually playing the game shortly after that

Here comes catchup wall part two, yay, hooray, what fun.

Spoiler: Pages 33-37

Page 33- Rereading this when I'm not dead tired. Toogeloo still doesn't look good. Maybe it's a phrasing thing, but "don't trust their slot but not in a scumread way" from 806 doesn't really make much sense. They might be trying to articulate a similar feeling that I've got on the Mixed6 slot (i.e, town, but too erratic to give Huntmaster slot too,) but the wording doesn't sound quite right for that. Quibble quibble, though. The rest is the page isn't giving me much to go on.
Page 34- 826 is good, seems townie to me. Nothing else really standing out here.
Page 35- 850 is good, looking forward to seeing what comes of questioning Klingon.
Page 36- Honestly the whole Bowblade interaction thing is looking pretty town to me? Far from the best town

play,

but it doesn't seem scummy. Not really getting any solid reads on Shinobi from their interactions with R&L, but I know my other head isn't a fan. I'm seeing M6, FA, and R&L all as town, so seeing the different opinions those slots have on each other (especially given the two hydras) is... don't know what word I'm looking for. Messy?
Page 37- Nothing of note here.

Well, I intended to get through the rest of the thread today, but some stuff came up on my end of things, and now I'm still kinda dead from pulling an all-nighter for the catchup last night. I'll finish it tomorrow, then! My apologies for the lack of content in this one.

So, one thing I noticed: They DID arrive at conclusions/declare a firm stance on some things as of the end of the first catch up post, so that's a bit better looking than I originally thought it was, and the second catchup post was only 4 pages, so no reason to change those conclusions. I'll look at it as a whole later on.

Nahdia, why were you asking me about shadow?

-Cerb

pedit: It's mostly true. PV can be an all star though when he actually plays. When he's actively engaged in the game he is just as capable as anyone else of just being spot on in his read of the game state and identification of the scum team..the problem is just that he frequently does *this* for days on end.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia is falling down my list again.
I don't think she would be this useless/annoying as town.

How is she useless? How is she annoying?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia is falling down my list again.
I don't think she would be this useless/annoying as town.

How is she useless? How is she annoying?

-Cerb

I had this huge conversation where I started talking to her and she just kind of looked through my answers and ignored me.
Now she's just off doing whatever while she sits on my wagon.

It's really irritating and I don't get the feeling she cares very much about what I'm doing/saying.

Does my vote on you fluster you, Shinobi? ^_~

sorry for the attitude i guess. it's a mixture of Day 1 in a large game, general poor mood lately, and apathy because i was really hoping for a scum campaign in the setup. i prefer playing anti-town especially after ive gotten so many town flips lately :\

scumhunting seemed a bit faked (the walls of questions and not much sorting as i recall). a bit too diplomatic (i think that's what u were getting at). and after all the questioning and such the slot has done they push a lurker slot.

RI whenever ur around what's your current thoughts on shadow_step? im totes goin' somewhere with this promise.

Umm.

Did you miss that I went through his entire ISO giving my thoughts on everything? Or the fact that his responses were all fluffy and dismissive? The main problem I see is the inconsistency between the BoP he placed on Sensei and yourself. He assumed you would be competent, while simultaneously assuming Sensei would be incompetent, in spite of knowing nothing about either of you. It's possible that this was caused by a low level reaction to the way you both play(Nahdia posts lots, therefore good at mafia, Sensei posts less, therefore bad), so I hesitate to demand his head over it, but it looks pretty bad. Nothing else is overtly scummy or alarming, I don't believe. At least, not in a way I can vocalize. Elbirn and I are willing to vote him, but we're more concerned with the H&M situation for the time being. Although actually he and I haven't spoken since we've both been gone from the thread, so that may change after further discussion.

-Cerb

yah i did see that i was purposefully putting you on the spot.

so you pretty much have a non-opinion on him. radical.

Nahdia, why were you asking me about shadow?

-Cerb

because they were the leading wagon when you introduced your H&M push, which seemed kinda outta nowhere. see where im going with this yet? :p

Ah. So you're suggesting we're scum together and I went through his ISO to give him a "safe" place to interact and start acting townie, while simultaneously pushing someone else? Do you think i'm scum with Shinobi as well, given that he'd be the easiest person to push above shadow_step as a suspect?

And, you do realize any push on someone who isn't playing the game is going to be out of nowhere, yes? If they haven't been around, and haven't said ANYTHING worth responding to, a push *would* indeed come from nowhere.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, and no, I don't have a non-opinion on him. I have a non-opinion on PV. I have a scum lean on him, but he's a complete unknown to me, so I don't know how to evaluate the scummiest thing he's done.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Ah. So you're suggesting we're scum together and I went through his ISO to give him a "safe" place to interact and start acting townie, while simultaneously pushing someone else?

well the whole "safe place to interact" part hadn't really crossed my mind but yeah pretty much i was considering the possibility of you introducing a counterwagon. i dont really know how you play as scum but i'm guessing it involves playing the tactician?

Do you think i'm scum with Shinobi as well, given that he'd be the easiest person to push above shadow_step as a suspect?

hadn't really considered that angle?

And, you do realize any push on someone who isn't playing the game is going to be out of nowhere, yes? If they haven't been around, and haven't said ANYTHING worth responding to, a push *would* indeed come from nowhere.

-Cerb

...yes?

Oh, and no, I don't have a non-opinion on him. I have a non-opinion on PV. I have a scum lean on him, but he's a complete unknown to me, so I don't know how to evaluate the scummiest thing he's done.

-Cerb

soo... you have a scumlean on a guy with a large wagon... and instead of joining in on that wagon to get him lynched.. you opt to push some random lurker instead? why didn't you just vote shadow_step?

idk if i buy that ur had such strong scumread on H&M when they'd made 2 posts at the time. THAT'S the issue im taking here.

Hm. I'm going to go steal something from my skype chat with Elbirn to address the H&M scumread thing. I guess I'll paraphase the convo cause I don't believe I'm allowed to quote it even if I like, change shiz.

Me: I want to wagon every inactive player
Elbirn: Do it, gut feeling Hastur is scum, but I forget why.
Me: Both slots were low content in SD2, but not quite this bad. Sugarjan was definitely more involved.
Elbirn: She didn't talk too much though. Hobbes was my scum buddy and was lurky lurky then posted walls of fluff, which is what I'm seeing here. Lemme look at their ISO.
A couple minutes later.
Elbirn: Ehhhhh...
Me: Yeah, jan head is v/la, not sure what to think about them. They both strike me as extremely methodical players though, so I wouldn't expect a huge wagon on them to phase them, but we could go for it and see how it goes? Them or Bogre(although I kinda wanna keep H&M around cuz I feel bad for how SugarJan didn't get to really play in SD2).
Elbirn: Yeah, that sucks, but tbh, I'd bury them without remorse if I thought they were scum, play to win yo. Speaking of which, I changed my position from "ehh" to "okay yeah kill them now". Their whole iso is a wishy washy read on us and vague doubt casting on ranger and an unexplained scumread on shinobi(very vague) and then a bunch of mech spec about inconsequential shit.
Me: Have at them! Bury them beneath the weight of your words!
Elbirn: Maybe wait until Jan comes back from V/LA?
Me: Naw, let's force HD to handle it alone, we've seen him as scum before.

Now, the reason why we didn't just vote shadow_step is because we had just talked about him, and I couldn't make up my mind about him, and thus opted for getting more information about a slot that was concerning over joining the wagon on the person who was already talking.

It's quite important to consider the angle of me introducing a counterwagon. Why in the world would I bother? Unless Shinobi is scum with myself and shadow_step, it's very easy to just push shinobi over shadow_step. I could just claim to have been appeased by him responses, and go after shinobi. Done. *shrug* I think that were I in your position, taking this particular line wouldn't make sense from scum me(and this goes without considering that I let shitty scummates hang themselves, not worth it to sacrifice my position if the other person can't be bothered to play well, but you have no reason to know that) over the easier option of pushing someone who actually *does* have content which is scummy. Town playing bad counterwagon is a much easier one to push than a pure lurker one, ESPECIALLY when there are a bunch of pure lurkers in the game...it means you get questioned on WHY you're going after this person in particular.

Any more questions? Any thoughts on things?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

OH, and I don't think you understand me Nahdia: A scumlean is NOWHERE NEAR strong enough for me to sincerely push for someone to die on D1. Just not enough content available. I wouldn't even be voting ANYONE at all right now if I weren't hydraing. I will, however, push someone to actually see how they respond and hear what they have to say so I can develop my read on them. ^^

Does that make sense? I feel like it kinda doesn't, but it absolutely makes sense in my head.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Which lynch is that???? You've made a few suggestions, and jumped around, and now your other head supports my H&M position but you have other plans, but you're not actually doing anything.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Zorblag, who does ABR say we should lynch? I will unashamedly sheep his D1 scum read.

Also, valid points about the denial of insight to town. I was thinking only in terms of echoes (which scum should always havs more of than townx since they can throw out a kill each night to get extra echoes on specific slots), so letting a bad teammate get lynched was reasonable. Denying insight is also good play by them, I'll need to consider wagon composition a but differently.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Umm, you got emotional in the exchange with Fire Assassin . That's what he was obviously referring to, since, ya know, that's the person in question. Who has since replaced out of this game because of your play.

I'm really irritated that you just brought this crap up again. He replaced out, his replacement hasn't done anything yet, let's fucking move on.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Umm, it's a pretty obvious lis ABR?

Also, fyi, frozen, I 100% agree with fire assassin's appraisal of the way you react to pressure. It's NAI, and it's venomous, and you do do it. He was absolutely correct.

-Cerb

Pedit: sensei was equally quiet in saga, and in space dandy. He talked a bit on D1, but he was never especially vocal.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Oh, also, R&L, your role fish excuse for scumreading that slot was shit too. Like absolute crap.

ABR: okies.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Okay so best vote for huntmaster should be Reasonably Irrational?
I mean mechanically if they have a reason that makes more sense.

if you trust him, sure.

Exactly. Best vote is conftown . Then likely town. Only when deciding between likely town does mechanical advantage become relevant.

Nahdia your continued suspicion of my slot is dumb.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

going to split up your posts and answer them part part (hard to answer them in whole part in my mobile phone)

I'm not sure what response you want me to give to this? You know how I feel about feelings. I don't like them. So, umm, x makes you feel y doesn't do anything for me. I'm stating facts about those slots. Slots that don't engage with the game, as those slots aren't(for the most part) are extremely hard to accurately read, and extremely likely to cause a loss in LYLO if they live that long. It's dumb to just go lynching them all willy-nilly though, because it's unlikely they're all(or even *mostly*) scum, cuz math, but if we don't deal with them, they'll just always be...there, unreadable and problematic.

as I said this multiple times in different game I do beleive that this is no game of chess to just be played with consideration of logic, I'm sure the emotional part of the game has a very deep influence on it becuase its a game that the pawnes are human so even if you think emotions are crap , answer to my questions about your feelings becuase they tell me stuff that you even though your considering them crap , I consider them information.

so you were saying as they are lurkers they have a decent chance to be town but they must die even though their low hanging fruits becuase their influence in late game?

~Rylai

Frozen, I don't have feelings about mafia. Its a dumb game that, like most games, isn't most worth emotional involvement. I guess I get irritated at people being dumb. I guess earlier I was sad about the fire assassin thing and disgusted at your attitude about it. I can't understand just not caring at all about having a negative impact on someone else's enjoyment. If I were emotional in mafia I'd want to lynch you for that, and that alone.

I'm not though, and don't have enough of a read on your slot to make that decision at this time.

Anyways, yes, the problem with the lurkers is if they make it to the late game they fucking suck, and they're the exact people scum want in the late game, but math says a lot of them are town, so if they don't start acting like it they're just setting us up to have to waste a huge amount of time and lynches and clearing them.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Nahdia, I have a very specific composition in mind for the hunting party...but there is one spot of wriggle room. I'm trying to determine who else I have an Uber townread on to put there.

It's unlikely to be you because I really dislike the fact that you, as smart and observant as I know you are, didn't even consider the weirdness of me pushing a lurker over the easy mislynch, amd then didn't consider the obvious conclusion that given your respect for the heads of this hydra, we would obviously want to push elsewhere cause if we got shinobi lynched, we'd just he setting up ourselves and shadow_step for a very difficult rest of the game.

Like I have trouble believing you just....wouldn't even look at what other options I could have taken as scum in that spot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Also, for the record, the main wagons of the game have been shinobi and shadow_step. So it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that I'm actually dissuading any wagons that are actually being actively pushed to any strong degree. In addition, the fact that I want H&M dead at this stage in the game, in spite of including them in that list, is something you should THINK about more, rather than just assuming there's some sort of scum motivation. There's a reason why I am pushing that SPECIFIC slot in this game, among the group of lurky mclurkers: Elbirn was the scum partner of one of the heads in the last game we played(thus, I'd be willing to bet he'll be able to pick up on tonal differences between the way the HD head posted in their scum PT, and the way he posted in the main game), and because of my limited experience with both heads, among EVERYONE who is being lurky, they are the ones whose posting style is most likely to lead to actual content when they respond, whether they're scum or not. If they're town, they'll throw out real commentary about things. If they're scum, because it's what they'd do as town, they'll still throw out lengthy commentary, which is helpful whenever they flip.

let me requete the post in question again :

This game has too much low hanging fruit. Bogre, H&M, toog, pv, and now this new hydra. All apparently mislynch bait, either based on their past play, or simply because they're not giving anyone any reason to town read them.

This concerns me. They can't all be bad scum. :/

-Cerb

you called Bogre , H&M , toog , PV and I'm not sure why you added the new hydra there. all 4 are being stated as a concern from at least 1/3 of the players. the only wagons that are not your list are Shadow and Shinobi which is weird becuase Shadow was lurking as well and You never directly stated that your scumreading Shinobi.

My point here is more about H&M that your hydra is the one who was pushing it. calling your push a push on a low hanging fruit is a deep emotional play that is concerning me.

~Rylai

This is the problem with you FA. I don't make emotional plays. It's absolutely foreign to me. I've said this to you repeatedly, in multiple games, and in all of them but one I was town. Your method of attaching emotional impact and significance to posts simply doesn't work when it comes to my posts. I'll address this again momentarily.

Nahdia, I have a very specific composition in mind for the hunting party...but there is one spot of wriggle room. I'm trying to determine who else I have an Uber townread on to put there.

It's unlikely to be you because I really dislike the fact that you, as smart and observant as I know you are, didn't even consider the weirdness of me pushing a lurker over the easy mislynch, amd then didn't consider the obvious conclusion that given your respect for the heads of this hydra, we would obviously want to push elsewhere cause if we got shinobi lynched, we'd just he setting up ourselves and shadow_step for a very difficult rest of the game.

Like I have trouble believing you just....wouldn't even look at what other options I could have taken as scum in that spot.

-Cerb

See, now you're the one making assumptions. It's not that I

wouldn't

consider that, it's that I

didn't have to

. Given the motivation I absolutely could have dug into your play and sure, I probably would have come to that conclusion. But when it comes to questioning someone I know is smart, I prefer to leave defense to the defendant.

You outright said that you hadn't considered some things. I would have expected town you to have at least given a little thought to those things. At least enough that you could give more of an answer than "I hadn't considered that angle." I would have expected town you to consider a number of possible reasons why I could have done what I did, as both town and scum, and considered what my different potential responses would have meant.

That's what bothers me here, you just didn't do that at all. You didn't need to spoon feed me the possible responses, but I expected more thought on the subject from you.

Frozen, I don't have feelings about mafia. Its a dumb game that, like most games, isn't most worth emotional involvement. I guess I get irritated at people being dumb. I guess earlier I was sad about the fire assassin thing and disgusted at your attitude about it. I can't understand just not caring at all about having a negative impact on someone else's enjoyment. If I were emotional in mafia I'd want to lynch you for that, and that alone.

I'm not though, and don't have enough of a read on your slot to make that decision at this time.

not even close to what I said. I'm sure you didn't understood me at all.

I never said that emotional cases or attacking someone with emotional rage is a valid move here which makes the game unsatisfiable for everyone. I said considering how are people feeling while their posting and how are they trying to make others feel about their actions is a valid tell in mafia and has a place in game.

regarding to Fire assassin I repeatedly asked him to don't interpret my push on him personally and engage with me and to be honest i'm really angry and sad about his replace out and the fact I acted so harsh at the end with him but I strongly believe and I'm sure about it that i did nothing wrong during the time I was engaging with him. I did my best to stop him from taking everything personally and calling my push emotional which made that stupid fight.

I won't town read him for that and i won't let anyone advertise that as a town move (in any kind ) as well. for example you blaming me for what happened is what I call a try for making him look more town that i don't like at all. as I repeatedly told , I'm sorry for the last posts to him but I'm not sorry about how I felt and how I reacted and How I engaged becuase i did a pretty good job in just focusing on game and he failed.

and what is keeping you from having a read on my slot?

~Rylai

Alright, back to what I was talking about Frozen. I completely understand what you're saying. My point is I believe you, and everyone else who thinks they can deeply understand another persons emotional state and use it to somehow determine their alignment and sincerity in spite of the knowledge that people will be actively working to obfuscate that same information, are massively overestimating your own capabilities.

People are fucking complex. For example, there is NO WAY you could EVER properly evaluate my emotional state based on text alone. I deliberately and effortlessly appear emotional for emphasis and until I explain that, most people just accept it as being a legitimate show of emotion.

THAT is why emotion has no place in the game. Unless the person in question has the emotional maturity and self control of a rather small child, it's going to be useless. Any success you may have from it, will be of the crap shoot variety.

Now, regading the game relevance, this has come up twice now: you attributed an EMOTIONAL PLAY to someone who you should have realized NEVER does things with an emotional basis. Remove that "deeply emotional play" thought about the H&M post. What do you have left? Tell me your thoughts on it when you take a step outside of yourself and your emotional focus, and just look at the words alone. Look at it the way I look at everything.

The second time is right now. I don't care how you feel about *anything*. I'm telling you I'm disgusted by the post where you told him to get out of this game etc. That's all. It has nothing to do with anyones alignment. I don't expect you to care how I feel about your actions(because you shouldn't imo, the only person who can judge you, is you).

Now, was his behavior pro-town? Absolutely not. Obviously. Was it scummy? No. You were two people engaging in a moment of idiocy together.


-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

This is the problem with you FA. I don't make emotional plays. It's absolutely foreign to me. I've said this to you repeatedly, in multiple games, and in all of them but one I was town. Your method of attaching emotional impact and significance to posts simply doesn't work when it comes to my posts. I'll address this again momentarily.

There is no problem with me in this case. we can simply agree to disagree about this topic.

I used that tool in multiple games and in all of them even the one you were scum I was right.

~Rylai

That's the thing though. There was nothing insincere about anything I said prior to your exit from that game. *shrug* I could go look back at the game, but it's probably not worth it when you're going to continue to believe what you believe.

I'm simply trying to help you stop misinterpreting my actions and their intent because you somehow think you understand me. You don't.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Alright, back to what I was talking about Frozen. I completely understand what you're saying. My point is I believe you, and everyone else who thinks they can deeply understand another persons emotional state and use it to somehow determine their alignment and sincerity in spite of the knowledge that people will be actively working to obfuscate that same information, are massively overestimating your own capabilities.

People are fucking complex. For example, there is NO WAY you could EVER properly evaluate my emotional state based on text alone. I deliberately and effortlessly appear emotional for emphasis and until I explain that, most people just accept it as being a legitimate show of emotion.

THAT is why emotion has no place in the game. Unless the person in question has the emotional maturity and self control of a rather small child, it's going to be useless. Any success you may have from it, will be of the crap shoot variety.

The point is I don't care if you beleive me or not or you think there is only a logical aspect in this game like so many other people.

I simply think your wrong and I have no intention in proving that to you! Its just like to the fact that i think whoever is just interpreting the game by gut reads and their feelings are simply wrong.

I'm simply have a unique way of playing that I can prove is way way way way more accurate than both of the above at this point with all the games I played so far.

If you think there is no way for understanding emotions and you consider everyone as same in this ability your just being blind.

and again to my point we can simply agree to disagree.

~Rylai

This is a dumb distraction. It's not actually accomplishing anything in the game. Maybe you could actually do what I asked?

(I never said everyone's ability was the same. I said all of you are overestimating yourselves, and none of you are that capable. There is a significant difference between those two points, though the relevant thing for mafia is that no matter how capable you actually are, it's simply NOT good enough, and you are fooling yourself if you think any differently. Which is something you're allowed to do. Everyone is allowed to delude themselves.)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

That's the thing though. There was nothing insincere about anything I said prior to your exit from that game. *shrug* I could go look back at the game, but it's probably not worth it when you're going to continue to believe what you believe.

I'm simply trying to help you stop misinterpreting my actions and their intent because you somehow think you understand me. You don't.

-Cerb

I'm trying to understand you better when i'm asking question or accusing you to doing something. their not always the way i'm thinking about you right now.

so the best way for you is to just answer what I'm asking you and cooperate instead of just trying to prove my methods won't work

~Rylai

I've answered everything you've asked which I've noticed.

When you say "x is y" regarding my play, when I KNOW that you are wrong, I'm going to tell you you're wrong FA. Every single time. So, every single time you try to attribute an emotional play to something I've said, I'm going to tell you you're wrong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Just for the record, btw, I think you, like many people, get lucky and tend to remember your successes more than your failures. This is a pet theory of yours, the idea that your playstyle is unique and SUPER DUPER EFFECTIVE, and your recollection of past events supports that. If that weren't a factor, I find it highly unlikely that you have a sample size of games large enough to definitely say "this particular aspect of my play, the bit that is wholly emotion based, is having a meaningful and positive effect on my reads."

I think you're just a good player, and this emotion crap has nothing to do with it. You use it to justify other subconscious connections you arrive at, and it works because people can't argue with someone who's trying to say they're showing a certain emotion in their play that gives them away. You subconsciously play well, and use intangibles to justify the conclusions your subconscious feeds to you. ^^

That's just my opinion though.

Anyways, so, umm, questions?

-Cerb

pedit: I'm not going to lie about the slot? I outlined earlier today, in my response to Nahdia, the exact thought process Elbirn and I had with regards to the H&M slot and why we chose to push it in spite of it being, as I said, "low hanging fruit", and why we chose to push IT over the other options. Did you read that post?

Ah, okay. I don't know? I don't know the nature of the relationship you two have. In a void, I would say ignoring your questions and attempting to make the game view you as unworthy of paying attention to is scummy, UNLESS he has experience with you and legitimately held those positions with regards to your thoughts. If he sincerely believed that you were simply making a ragey omgus type thing like he's seen you do before(and like I've seen you do before), then it's absolutely acceptable to dismiss you and your questions out of hand. It's NAI at best, scummy at worst if faked.

His role fishing didn't exist. You went off on what appeared to me to be an unsubstantiated sequence of thoughts. He said one thing, and you drew multiple unsubstantiated conclusions from it, and interpreted it as him role fishing. He wasn't role fishing. Nothing about what he said appeared to be role fishing to me. That's why that whole point is super wrong imo. I haven't gone back to reread that portion, but I remember reading what he said originally, and seeing you go off about role fishing, and thinking "FA is so wrong right now."

I told you why x is not y. It's not y because I DO NOT PLAY THAT WAY. Look at my hydra PT's with Drixx and wgeurts. You have like 5 novels worth of my internal thought process regarding games and how I approach them to examine to understand how I play. In all of that, YOU WILL NEVER EVER EVER see me reference doing something to cause an emotional response of some sort in someone. I am incapable of considering lines of play like that. They simply do not make sense to me.

I'll feign anger, to add emphasis. That's the closest I come to what you're accusing me of doing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Aaand, SCENE!

Now that we're done with that the two of you can never get into it again unless you're actually using it to make a case for the game and the game can move on.

Albert B. Rampage will be by later to examine the list of players not pulling their weight from Nahdia and Rylai and Lina and lead us all to a glorious scum lynch. (As an aside from the Troll head, Rylai and Lina, was that what you meant to post as a list of those not pulling their weight? It looks like something else to me.) For now this Troll will head off to his cave for a good night's sleep.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Unfortunately, she has a tendency to attribute things which simply do not exist to my play. I can't say I'm not doing some intangible emotional thing when it's wholly a construct of her imagination. I can't prove the absence of a fundamentally illogical and intangible maneuver on my part. All I can do is repeatedly tell her that there is a substantial body of work, a lot of writing done from my perspective, covering multiple games and alignments, and during all that time, I have never even mentioned playing the way she tries to say I may be playing.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

And I mean it's not like you being town is the only explanation. Without hearing it from you, I could have taken my direction in any number of ways. Sure, Shinobi is the "easy mislynch" but the dichotomy between shadow_step and he was already there. You coulda been introducing a new candidate hoping to distract from both of them.

Which reminds me

Gigalurk Tier:

Bogre
Hastur & Muriel
PeregrineV
Heuristic_Arrow

Lurker McLurkface Tier

Toogeloo
Xkfyu
Zulfy
Gee Willikers

shadow_step

LurkLite™ Tier:

Sensei
randomidget
Ranger
Klingoncelt

EBWOP

You would think more people would be interested in playing this since it has so many interesting mechanics. Though maybe it creates more apathy.

I wouldn't be against lynching a lurker today. I can get my barring on many of the other players Day 2.[/quote]

I actually view the apathy of this game as coming from the fact that there is a group of players who have recognized one another as town rather strongly, quite early on. This has lead to a schism, where those players that are not part of said group, simply haven't been participating as much. That group of "ostracized" players, have moved to support R&L, the most vocal individual who wasn't within that group(and isn't within my town read group at least, but who I believe Mixed6 town reads) as huntmaster. I'm trying to decide if this move comes from scum attempting to prevent the growth of this town blow by causing friction through support for another option, or if it's from people who are just irritated at Mixed6 and myself moving to control the direction of the game and are thus simply rebelling against it. Or some other reason I haven't considered.

Liger_Zero: Why? What about that seemed TvT? It was 80% theory talk.

-Cerb

pedit: I believe I made all the points there are to make about Hastur and Muriel already, in the post where I outlined the exact conversation Elbirn and I had which led to our desire to have them lynched.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Liger_Zero: Why? What about that seemed TvT? It was 80% theory talk.

The conversation between you two might have been about theory and playstyle, but it came from a perspective of at least you two not seeming to know each others alignments. At least more so for you. Rylai maybe not, but due to the mechanics of this game I am unsure if that is even telling.

What are odds of multiple scum factions in this?

It's entirely possible and well within the lore, but the mod dislikes multiball. However, he is not averse to designing games against mod meta.

And, alright, fair point.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spoiler: R&L and Nahdias original lurker lists

And I mean it's not like you being town is the only explanation. Without hearing it from you, I could have taken my direction in any number of ways. Sure, Shinobi is the "easy mislynch" but the dichotomy between shadow_step and he was already there. You coulda been introducing a new candidate hoping to distract from both of them.

Which reminds me

Gigalurk Tier:

Bogre
Hastur & Muriel
PeregrineV
Heuristic_Arrow

Lurker McLurkface Tier

Toogeloo
Xkfyu
Zulfy
Gee Willikers

shadow_step

LurkLite™ Tier:

Sensei
randomidget
Ranger
Klingoncelt

EBWOP[/quote]

Frozen and Nahdia, I'm putting you in charge of putting together a list of the players who are not pulling their weight in terms of activity in this game. I will go through both your lists and tell you which one I want lynched and will drive that wagon. Cerb will follow my lead and then the rest of the town will fall in line or be destroyed. I will be voted master of the hunt, we will lynch scum, and go to night.

Let's get to it.

yeah ok. the more this list goes down means more scummy

Ranger (She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while)
Toogeloo (he explained why he is busy , but he posted some stuff and they didn't trigger me off. although i like him to talk about his Nahdia read.)
Heuristic_Arrow ( hydra - replaced in a long time ago - did nothing ...)
Klingoncelt (she is making posts and she is active but I can't see progress and her reads)
Xkyfu (Not playing the game - although nothing occurred to me alarming- simply null)
PeregrineV (his posts about using patches as a tool to clear dungens , although seems stupid but felt genuine so it gave me slight town lean. but he is not doing anything in game beside that which is simply null )
Hastur and Muriel (hydra - started the game - did nothing beside some very old catch up posts ...)
Gee Willikers (hydra - one head is in page 34 as he claimed and the other is not bothering to catch up. I simply have no read on them but I consider them both as active MS players and their inactivity is bugging me.)
Sensei (I mentioned this so many times so far. I see him as a potential townleader and his inactivity is bugging me)
Zulfy (I completly forgot he is in game... wtf)
Shadow_Step (his 34 posts are basically worse than eachother - I can't see his reads or his try for sorting anyone that is deeply concerning)
Bogre (he can be nominated for worst scummy entrance post and he is siply not here after that)

ehem ^ this is incredibly bad ...

are we playing this game?

~Rylai

Combined lurker lists, with the from FA's list attached to the names on Nahdias list, the number at the beginning indicates their position in FA's list, the higher the number, the scummier her read. The higher the position in Nahdias list, the lurkier the slot is.

Which reminds me

Gigalurk Tier:

11 Bogre (he can be nominated for worst scummy entrance post and he is siply not here after that)
7 Hastur and Muriel (hydra - started the game - did nothing beside some very old catch up posts ...)
6 PeregrineV (his posts about using patches as a tool to clear dungens , although seems stupid but felt genuine so it gave me slight town lean. but he is not doing anything in game beside that which is simply null )
3 Heuristic_Arrow ( hydra - replaced in a long time ago - did nothing ...)

Lurker McLurkface Tier

2 Toogeloo (he explained why he is busy , but he posted some stuff and they didn't trigger me off. although i like him to talk about his Nahdia read.)
5 Xkyfu (Not playing the game - although nothing occurred to me alarming- simply null)
9 Zulfy (I completly forgot he is in game... wtf)
7 Gee Willikers (hydra - one head is in page 34 as he claimed and the other is not bothering to catch up. I simply have no read on them but I consider them both as active MS players and their inactivity is bugging me.)
10 Shadow_Step (his 34 posts are basically worse than eachother - I can't see his reads or his try for sorting anyone that is deeply concerning)

LurkLite™ Tier:

8 Sensei (I mentioned this so many times so far. I see him as a potential townleader and his inactivity is bugging me)
? randomidget <<< Not in R&L's list
1 Ranger (She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while)
4 Klingoncelt (she is making posts and she is active but I can't see progress and her reads)

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Spoiler: R&L and Nahdias original lurker lists

And I mean it's not like you being town is the only explanation. Without hearing it from you, I could have taken my direction in any number of ways. Sure, Shinobi is the "easy mislynch" but the dichotomy between shadow_step and he was already there. You coulda been introducing a new candidate hoping to distract from both of them.

Which reminds me

Gigalurk Tier:

Bogre
Hastur & Muriel
PeregrineV
Heuristic_Arrow

Lurker McLurkface Tier

Toogeloo
Xkfyu
Zulfy
Gee Willikers

shadow_step

LurkLite™ Tier:

Sensei
randomidget
Ranger
Klingoncelt

EBWOP[/quote]

Frozen and Nahdia, I'm putting you in charge of putting together a list of the players who are not pulling their weight in terms of activity in this game. I will go through both your lists and tell you which one I want lynched and will drive that wagon. Cerb will follow my lead and then the rest of the town will fall in line or be destroyed. I will be voted master of the hunt, we will lynch scum, and go to night.

Let's get to it.

yeah ok. the more this list goes down means more scummy

Ranger (She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while)
Toogeloo (he explained why he is busy , but he posted some stuff and they didn't trigger me off. although i like him to talk about his Nahdia read.)
Heuristic_Arrow ( hydra - replaced in a long time ago - did nothing ...)
Klingoncelt (she is making posts and she is active but I can't see progress and her reads)
Xkyfu (Not playing the game - although nothing occurred to me alarming- simply null)
PeregrineV (his posts about using patches as a tool to clear dungens , although seems stupid but felt genuine so it gave me slight town lean. but he is not doing anything in game beside that which is simply null )
Hastur and Muriel (hydra - started the game - did nothing beside some very old catch up posts ...)
Gee Willikers (hydra - one head is in page 34 as he claimed and the other is not bothering to catch up. I simply have no read on them but I consider them both as active MS players and their inactivity is bugging me.)
Sensei (I mentioned this so many times so far. I see him as a potential townleader and his inactivity is bugging me)
Zulfy (I completly forgot he is in game... wtf)
Shadow_Step (his 34 posts are basically worse than eachother - I can't see his reads or his try for sorting anyone that is deeply concerning)
Bogre (he can be nominated for worst scummy entrance post and he is siply not here after that)

ehem ^ this is incredibly bad ...

are we playing this game?

~Rylai

Combined lurker lists, with the notes from FA's list attached to the names on Nahdias list, the number at the beginning indicates their position in FA's list, the higher the number, the scummier her read. The higher the position in Nahdias list, the lurkier the slot is.

Gigalurk Tier:

11 Bogre (he can be nominated for worst scummy entrance post and he is siply not here after that)
7 Hastur and Muriel (hydra - started the game - did nothing beside some very old catch up posts ...)
6 PeregrineV (his posts about using patches as a tool to clear dungens , although seems stupid but felt genuine so it gave me slight town lean. but he is not doing anything in game beside that which is simply null )
3 Heuristic_Arrow ( hydra - replaced in a long time ago - did nothing ...)

Lurker McLurkface Tier

2 Toogeloo (he explained why he is busy , but he posted some stuff and they didn't trigger me off. although i like him to talk about his Nahdia read.)
5 Xkyfu (Not playing the game - although nothing occurred to me alarming- simply null)
9 Zulfy (I completly forgot he is in game... wtf)
7 Gee Willikers (hydra - one head is in page 34 as he claimed and the other is not bothering to catch up. I simply have no read on them but I consider them both as active MS players and their inactivity is bugging me.)
10 Shadow_Step (his 34 posts are basically worse than eachother - I can't see his reads or his try for sorting anyone that is deeply concerning)

LurkLite™ Tier:

8 Sensei (I mentioned this so many times so far. I see him as a potential townleader and his inactivity is bugging me)
randomidget <<< Not in R&L's list
1 Ranger (She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while)
4 Klingoncelt (she is making posts and she is active but I can't see progress and her reads)

EBWOP for formatting.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I added post tags to your post below so it's easier for people to navigate because I want them to read this.

Heyo, back again, hopefully to catch up to... at least where the push on our slot started, tonight, hopefully get all the way through so I can actually engage with what's currently happening. We'll see how it goes. (Also, on the subject of my not linking the specific posts I mention, I'm actually not sure how at the moment. Apologies, and thank you to RI for going back and editing those in.)

Spoiler: Second to last catchup: Pages 38-59

Page 38- Well, I'm not getting anything new here, but I do find 948 to be

funny,

at least.
Page 39- Post 945- the "two spiders" line was a joke, Sensei, I don't like spiders. As to the rest of it... I don't know. Maybe it's a playstyle difference, but I'm not going to act like I'm certain someone is scum or town unless I

feel certain.

And an entrance that I dislike isn't enough to give me certainty by any means, just have me looking in that direction. If that reads as weak to you... oh well? Unless I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here.
Page 40- Ugh, serious or not, not a fan of 975. Or 976. 994... I can see why y'all are calling this "incomprehensible," especially given the lack of links. But meh, this is as much for my own benefit as it is anyone else's, far easier to read my own notes and check the important points than reread the whole damn thread later.
Page 41- Definitely get where Ranger and Nahdia are coming from in 1023 and 1024... the only reason I'm managing to get into the game is because I might be lynched if I don't, and even with that I'm behind. Hoping they follow through on getting more active as the game progresses, I'll be watching that.
Page 42- Post 1027, @Almost- while I am scumreading Bogre, it doesn't really have anything to do with them voting us- felt like a random vote. Post 1037 looks like crumbing a scumread on IR, (THINK IR SCUM, if you read the capitalized sections,) so I have to wonder who that was directed at and why they aren't saying it outright. Or maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it, as usual. D&D continues to look town. Somehow I think the Sword of a Thousand Truths is just a joke. We shall see.
Page 43- well at least I'm not the only playing catchup forever... what even is 1068? I mean, it's kind of funny, but voting the proxy for huntmaster? Hoping it's a placeholder.
Page 44- Interesting... the Hunt vote for Patches didn't take. Currently trying to get a read on KC, but this page isn't giving me much to go on even with her posting. Nothing much else new, here.
Page 45- A bit of discussion on Peregrine's hunt vote here. I would still assume it was a placeholder, not scummy. Now with 1120 I'm already in the mindset of looking for capitalized crumbing, but I'm not seeing what it could mean, so it's probably just for emphasis.
Page 46- This is mostly focused on Peregrine, but everything they've posted has been so minimal I can't get much more than a null read on them, I'm afraid. Xkyfu... I guess I'd lean town, but not a strong read? Better start getting more categorized sorting.
Page 47- While I don't agree with R&L's points about RI seeming "buddying," I do think the interaction as a whole looks like town for both of them. Cerb's (half of an) ISO of Shadow is good. I could probably get behind a Shadow lynch, although I might like to check their stuff myself or interact with them first.
Page 48- Second half of the Shadow ISO is also good stuff. Not much else to say here.
Page 49- While I'd still lean town on Nahdia and scum on Shadow, I do have to agree that the wording quibbling Nahdia makes on this page (in 1217) is kinda nonsense.
Page 50- Okay, so Peregrine voting Patches for Huntmaster was apparently him proving a point and arguing against lynching Patches? Okay then... kind of an odd way to go about it, but okay. Still a null read, there.
Page 51- R&L is thinking Peregrine was actually serious and trying not to risk actual players... I'm kinda hoping Peregrine clarifies this one way or the other. If not, something to ask him.
Page 52- Klingon continues to look very null. Some of FA's stuff on this page is alright, some of it is pretty meh. Moving that slot back down to null.
Page 53- 1319 is a good point, but given that I think random is probably town, I'm less certain on it. Almost still gets town points for it.
Page 54- Annnd here's RI kicking us into gear and getting me back into the game. And sorry Elbirn, pretty sure you're town, so I'm not gonna fight ya. Also not really liking Shinobi this page. We'll see how that develops.
Page 55- 1358 is bad. Starting to dislike the FA slot. And look, it's me! Glad to be close to caught up, we're getting into the stuff that I've been skimming as it goes now.
Page 56- Okay I already know from trying to keep up with the newer additions how this conflict turns out. But so far it's looking like enough for me to lean scum on the FA slot, soon to be LZ.
Page 57- 1404 and all the discussion that follows is a good point. Leaning scum on Shinobi.
Page 58- 1427 is... not good. "Lack of a better one" isn't really a good reason for scumreading our slot when we've basically done nothing whatsoever. That doesn't look like actual process of elimination, that looks like "jumping on something that could easily get traction." And 1442... Elbirn, I think "contentless garbage" is a stretch for that initial catchup. I mean, it might not have been the most current, and to be honest its purpose was as much to give me something to look back at and remember why I'm thinking what I'm thinking as it was to let everyone know I was actually doing something while catching up on the, like, 40 pages I fell behind, but still. Also, just looking at this, I kinda get the feeling that no matter what I posted after y'all called me out, you would've continued to scumread me anyway? Which, given that your read was pretty much based on my not being active, doesn't really hold up... but hey, maybe you just need more from me to change your mind, I can understand that. And yeah, again, sorry about the lack of links.
Page 59- Mm... I'm still not buying Shinobi's "PoE" explanation for scumreading our slot, but it's also not a strong read, so maybe it's not that bad?

As of Page: 59/Present
Townread: RI, M6, D&D, Almost, R&L
Townlean: Xkyfu, Nahdia, GW, Sensei, Random
Scumlean: Zulfy, Shinobi, LZ
Scumread: Toogeloo, Bogre, shadow.
All else: Null/Uncertain for now.

So, from about this point on, I've at least been skimming to keep up with how everything is unfolding. Might not do another big "catchup post" and instead just finish going over everything in more depth tomorrow, respond to whatever seems relevant, and properly hop in and start engaging with people. For now, though, it's 4 am, and I'm going to sleep.

-Hastur

Please use the post tags. :-/ It's really simple. Just highlight the numbers, and click the "post" button when you use the preview screen.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Why are you guys copying all these lists of other players. Or even combining them?
Its pretty obvious to anyone looking at the game the inactive slots...

Well, there are SO MANY INACTIVES that it's valuable to look at the entire list together from these two players, and see where they agree and disagree, and if you townread them(as I believe Mixed6 does) start to work on establishing a consensus on where the best lynch is from among all the lurkers.

I was just trying to save them some legwork in making sense of it all. And then wanted to make it look prettier by removing some words that I should have removed before.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

She is acting very lazy and I don't like that , but posting reads is what he do and so far I like them. its just , she didn't post some for a while

When I don't post reads, and for that matter, don't post content, it's because there's nothing of note since the last time I did.

As others have pointed out, the game's fairly inactive. The active posters are mostly discussing things that don't actually mean anything to me. I'll contribute my vote to whichever scumread of mine has the largest wagon. I'll stop any stupid wagons I see forming, and point out any scummy ones. If anything in my reads changes, I'll note it. If there's noteworthy content (for instance, egregious posts which solidify a scumread), I will mention it.

Otherwise, I don't have anything to say, sorry. My lists speak for themselves. When they don't, when people ask me about reads on them, I give my answer. But for the most part, as you yourself note, people like my lists. They don't see any reads they want to ask me about. So here I am, doing nothing, lazily hanging around.

Push someone for us Ranger. Do it!

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Guys. We need people to unvote before we end up with the wrong huntmaster. I feel it is absolutely essential that one of Mixed6 or ourselves ends up in that position. Who is around right now?
-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

what about me is not good enough for being huntmaster cerb?

whats your read on me? or what is stopping you from having a read on me as you claimed it before.

~Rylai

You're not obvtown, you're not me, and I don't trust your judgment in party selection.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

just mentioning

I will support mixed huntmaster wagon as an alternative to ours but i won't support yours.

~Rylai

Why? What has changed since earlier in the game?

-Cern

[Reasonably Irrational]

Why are you guys copying all these lists of other players. Or even combining them?
Its pretty obvious to anyone looking at the game the inactive slots...

Well, there are SO MANY INACTIVES that it's valuable to look at the entire list together from these two players, and see where they agree and disagree, and if you townread them(as I believe Mixed6 does) start to work on establishing a consensus on where the best lynch is from among all the lurkers.

I was just trying to save them some legwork in making sense of it all. And then wanted to make it look prettier by removing some words that I should have removed before.

-Cerb

I don't like the fact that your again are taking middle ground about the action (which is getting leaded by Mixed6 this time). whats your idea about the whole back and forth?

~Rylai

What do you mean about taking the middle ground here? What is the back and forth you're referring to?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You're not obvtown, you're not me, and I don't trust your judgment in party selection.

But I think I'm obv town , there are people who can see me that way and you can't simply just tell them to change their read on me like this (you have no right to)

and I simply don't care that you can't trust my taste in party selecting. I will bring my 3 top town reads or people who I think there is a reason for them to be in group.

Your a candidate becuase of your claim that is an open topic in our hydra chat as it stands.

~Rylai

A candidate for the party, or for the huntmaster? Are you saying that I'm only in thr running because of my claim rather than because of my play, or are you suggesting that my claim, which was only related to being huntmaster, makes me a candidate for being in your party? Because it shouldn't, that's a silly reason.

And I'm not telling them to change their read on you. Most of the people voting are townreading at least 2/3 of the candidates. They've stated they could also support others. So, we need to consolidate. And there are plenty of people who haven't voted on this who I'm appealing to as well.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

RI closer to the beginning of the day u were saying Mixed6 (ABR in particular) isn't a good leader and u do not support their huntsmaster campaign. why now r u cool with them and also sure it has to be u or him?

For reasons I can't share. I'm not cool with them, btw, because I expect ABR to be toxic in ANY PT he participates in, however, as one of my godtier townreads it's extremely likely he's going to be in any hunting party. That means it's less important that he not be selected as huntmaster.

just mentioning

I will support mixed huntmaster wagon as an alternative to ours but i won't support yours.

~Rylai

Why? What has changed since earlier in the game?

-Cern

you started playing lower than the standards I was expecting from you.

~Rylai

Vague. Details.

What do you mean about taking the middle ground here? What is the back and forth you're referring to?

your saying , assuming both are town, assuming that this is a good idea , this is the best move. (and your doing the legwork )

to much assumption instead of analyzing. your not taking stance.

and when I said back and forth I meant the thing that was shaping by mixed6.

~Rylai

I didn't say anything about assuming anything about your slots. If you're both scum it's really useful. Lynching scum is the best move for the day, but the consolidation of votes on a lurker slot is definitely the best move for the moment. What stance am I/ was I expected to take there? I wanted to put those lists together for my own analysis in the future, and there was no reason to just keep it hidden in my hydra pt. You're not making sense FA.

The thing? What thing? Seriously, you're being way too vague in what you're saying right now.

-Cerb

Pedit: I'm saying nothing about my role. I'm saying you have no reason, based on what I've said, to make the assumption you're making. You may be right. You may be wrong. Either way, you're assuming more than the data supports.

[Reasonably Irrational]

and I was considering you as a party member obviously. and not only becuase of your claim. you are a very dangerous null read of mine that I want to sort asap.

I'm not sure what is that power or what is that telling about your alignment or it even exist or not , but I'm not agreed to just vote you for it while I have these much concerns about your agenda now :/

~Rylai

That's also a terrible reason. If you want to sort me, you don't put me in the party. If you think I'm town, you put me in.

If you need information you can't have exposed to the world, ask me here, and I could consider answering using our messages. The only reason to sort me in that pt in particular is so we could have a discussion about things we want kept secret from scum, but if you don't consider me town, I'm a security risk and shouldn't be there. If you want to sort me, we have 6 days of this phase left. Sort me.

-Cerb

Pedit: I explained those things? And none of it is "bad play", which is the impression given by your phrasing. I explained, and have you responded to my explanations? Stated any sort of developed conclusions? No, you haven't. You said you accepted one answer, but you still mentioned the cause behind the answer as one of your reasons. So you don't accept it. So why aren't you asking me more about it?

D&D: dunno. Need to reread a few slots. Elbirn was scumreading fire assassin, we've mentioned our concerns about H&M, but those are largely meta (which I hate relying on), shadow_step did that inconsistent BOP assignment with Nahdia amd Sensei which still bothers me, and Nahdia was unexpectedly shallow in her approach to the recent exchange with our slot. Those are the scummiest actions which have occurred so far in this game from my pov, but none of them are damning.

[Reasonably Irrational]

I didn't say anything about assuming anything about your slots. If you're both scum it's really useful. Lynching scum is the best move for the day, but the consolidation of votes on a lurker slot is definitely the best move for the moment. What stance am I/ was I expected to take there? I wanted to put those lists together for my own analysis in the future, and there was no reason to just keep it hidden in my hydra pt. You're not making sense FA.

The thing? What thing? Seriously, you're being way too vague in what you're saying right now.

I'm making sense to me though.

You didn't said any thing about your Mixed6 read or what he was doing and you said this words exactly "I'm not town reading Rylai but I'm sure Mixed5 does" and then you combined my list and said its only valid if you are townreading me and Nahdia.

And you didn't vote for the lurker if you think thats the best move? so I guess your trying to keep yourself in high ground in all the events which are happening,

~Rylai

The point of communication is to make sense to others. If someone says you aren't making sense, rephrase, try to get them to understand, so at least you're arguing about the same things.

I made it clear what my Mixed6 read was forever ago. It's been clear most of the game that I townread them rather strongly. The fact that he asked for both your lists, and has in the past indicated trust in your slot and Nahdia's slots towniness, tells me that he's clearly townreading both of you.

And 1) you know I don't vote silly girl. 2) especially not when I'm about to go to sleep and a flash wagon could very well happen while I'm asleep given the game state.

You are again making a bunch of assumptions about my plays and why I'm making them. There's no reason to assume I'm "trying to keep the high ground" instead of "trying to keep the game from glashwagoning and ending the day when we clearly have more to talk about".

tbh I'd be fine with any of Mixed, RI or Rylai and Lina as Huntmaster, not sure about lilith.

I'm the lead.

~Rylai

What does this mean? If you're stating you're currently the leading huntmaster wagon, it's untrue. There's a 3 way tie, 4 votes each. It was 5,4,3 you, mixed6, me, but liger moved his slots vote from you to me.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

And we have 6 days to do it D&D. To make sure we're lynching the right person, and to get maximum early game interactions out of everyone.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Ok, then what do you think of Bogre?

-Dragons

Terrible, terrible iso with no opinions presented and no follow up to any questions asked. No contradictory behaviors though. Not familiar with the player, so I don't know if this is a playstyle thing or scumminess overall.

-Cerb

Pedit: It's not unreasonable for me to project meta in this sense given that I've seen, on multiple occasions, that you easily arrive at the same conclusions as me with similar reasoning.

R&L: extremely likely that I'm right, few huntmaster votes have happened since the last vc.

[Reasonably Irrational]

do u want to fight cerberus v666 becuse i wanan fight.

I'm currently in bed, posting via my phone, and don't have the energy to fight, especially when I don't think you should be lynched. If I laid too high a BoP on you, so be it.

-Cerb

Pedit: ope. You're right. I thought the last vote on you had come from fire assassin, not shadow, so thought the move on ligers part put things at a 3 way tie.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Mixed6, can you unvote Bogre until we have this huntmaster thing figured out?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

It's not unreasonable for me to project meta in this sense given that I've seen, on multiple occasions, that you easily arrive at the same conclusions as me with similar reasoning.

then metadive me, if ur so eager to rely on it. i don't answer questions about other people's play when i can just ask the person flat out

I don't metadive. I'll rely on my previous experiences with you, tyvm.

Think Bogre is not in game and the day got 5 days shorter.

who should we lynch cerb?

~Rylai

Nobody yet. D&D asked me this same question already? Maybe you should read the answer I gave her.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

[font=][/font]

I told you to assume we have only 1 day left and Bogre is not in game to force you decide between saying we should lynch X becuase you can convince us thats a good place to vote or say we just end the day with no lynch.

nobody is not an acceptable answer in the scenario I put you in.

~Rylai

Oh. Lol. That's not what I got out of what you said at all. And, still nobody, because if the day were 5 days shorter I'd have 5 days more material to work with. If you're asking me who I'd vig right now, which is a much better question, probably PV, based on knowledge that he's unlikely to become easier to sort anytime soon. He's a good vig shot.

You want to know who the person I think is most likely to be scum is. I don't have an answer for you. Elbirn might, but that's not how I play. D1 is a crap shoot, as I've said repeatedly, but everyone seems to forget that just because I'm participating in this D1. Get me a game full of people talking on D1 and a few flips, and I'll have answers about who is most likely to be scum.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

How about you, R&L? And D&D?

Considering for some reason you both decided to drill me about my scum reads at the exact same time.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

cerb i can't scumhunt being obvtown is all i hAVE don't DO THIS TO ME.

I can't scumhunt either yet.

Mixed6 disappeared and this sucks.


Why do you townread R&L Nahdia?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I believe H&M would sort themselves over the next 5 days. They still haven't engaged yet. Elbirn wants them dead, but you're asking this head. The head that needs a very high level of certainty on someone to actually want them lynched. Go look at my voting history in all my games and see how often I actually put down a vote myself, excluding guilties, deadline lynches, and lylo. That should show you how high the level of certainty I require is. Barring that level of certainty, I prefer lynches on lurkers early on, to keep them out of the late game/force scum to interact. That means there are like 8 slots that are equally worth lynching to me right now.

-Cerb

Pedit: lol. Shinobi or shadow_step, best information lynches among potentially scummy players.

[Reasonably Irrational]

And no I want one answer from you R&L, not a set of options.

-Cerb

Pedit: assuming nothing changes over the next 5 days, H&M. If they start playing and engaging, shadow_step or Bogre.

Pedit: dunno, too much work to figure it out right now, but I know they have had significant pressure and interactions with those pressuring them. Lots of conversation centered around them, thus the most information to gain.

Let's note that I'm not advocating this. Information lynches are dumb. Lynch scum. Other considerations only come into play when people are equally likely to be scum, which is rarely the case.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Most people dislike preflip associatives. R&L is trying to sort me by being irritating though, and throwing out simple questions that require lots of work to answer properly.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

And no I want one answer from you R&L, not a set of options.

-Cerb

Pedit: assuming nothing changes over the next 5 days, H&M. If they start playing and engaging, shadow_step or Bogre.

Pedit: dunno, too much work to figure it out right now, but I know they have had significant pressure and interactions with those pressuring them. Lots of conversation centered around them, thus the most information to gain.

Let's note that I'm not advocating this. Information lynches are dumb. Lynch scum. Other considerations only come into play when people are equally likely to be scum, which is rarely the case.

I will go for shadow probably. as I like to give Fire assassin's replacement - my next scum read - a chance to post and shiro is completly against that lynch.

and you won't lynch for information even if there is no one to get lynched becuase of being 'lynch-deserved' scummy as I thought you were saying is your state right now?

~Rylai

I don't understand your question.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't understand your question.

your saying there is noone you prefer to lynch even if it means that we are advancing in night phase with a no lynch

and your saying lynching for information (even though the people who are getting lynched are actually scummy) is dumb

so your saying in that scenario you prefer a no lynch?

~Rylai

No. In that situation I would only no lynch if a certain townread of mine were the preferred lynch. Otherwise, I would be here at deadline to hammer a lynch I disagreed with.

Preferred outcomes of a lynch: scum lynch, possible mislynch, no lynch, town lynch.

If someone makes it far enough up my town reads, I will allow a no lynch over voting for them. Otherwise, I'll vote for the consensus to ensure a lynch happens.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

do you have any example games that you as town didn't hammer the person you thought is town?

I like to read people selective meta at nights and I never read yours

~Rylai

Nothing I can talk about. In one game with mastin I chose to hammer her in spite of my strong read on her in the last 60 seconds of the day phase. She was town. This particular resolution rose from that instance. It rarely comes up to be honest, but when it does all hell breaks loose as people try to convince you to hammer someone you're sure is town.

-Cerb

Pedit: ...if you're seriously town, please just unvote and don't participate in this choice then, if that's really the best reason you have.

[Reasonably Irrational]

^^ my judgement of town play is exceptional zorblag! :p but you didn't ask me that.

And yes, no hammering before a clear lead is established by someone.

-Cerb

Pedit: because if you don't pick town and we end up with 3 scum and you in the team because you're voting for whoever promises you a spot, it's way worse than if we select town and end up with ( mathematicaly) 3 town and 1 scum there, without you participating.

[Reasonably Irrational]

@Reasonably Irrational, you have me at godtier town read right now. I know you've got good judgment and didn't have to ask.

@Rylai and Lina, for this particular decision is the town hunting that's much more important. It's actually what puts the town into the information advantage range over scum which is crazy powerful. Keep that in mind when making decisions.

We're not here to do cool exciting things. We're here to grind scum into nothing.

The cool and exciting things just happen along the way.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Keep this in mind Nahdia.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I read the mechanics and the hunting party and all that sounded interesting, but the obsession over it in day talk is kind....odd?
I don't know if its odd scummy or just odd that everyone talking about who should be in a party or the master or what not.

If Reasonably Irrational has a mechanical reason to be the huntmaster, they should be it.
The party should not be publically bartered with beforehand. I don't know why Nahdia or anyone is trying insert themselves in the party.
The party shouldn't be announced.

Though I think Reasonably Irrational should be the master given their early comment on reason for it.

Yeah, we had a discussion earlier about this, and decided to table the discussion until later in the day and focus on scum hunting. Then I went to sleep, and woke up to see Bogre went from 3 votes to L-2, and felt I had to speak up about it before we lynched while someone who I sincerely believe is the wrong choice was in the lead, or while we had a tie.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

she stated she has a town read on me.

whats wrong about her choosing me? your making no sense cerb?

~Rylai

What liger said. She has multiple other town reads. She didn't say you were her strongest town read, she said she chose you over other options because your slot bribed her. The person who should be huntmaster should be your strongest town read, period. If you're letting anything else influence that decision, you're doing it wrong.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

See, the activity returned.
VC. In a bit.

no lurker posted, its me , cerb , zorblag , D&D , this guy who replaced in recently while he is not cought up and Nahdia

:/

~Rylai

Yeah. The people who have been talking this whole time started talking again. The lurkers remained a lurking.

-Cerb

pedit: Apparently not wgeurts. You should convince your other head that they should be voting me for huntmaster! I look forward to your various thoughts on lots of things. ^^

[Reasonably Irrational]

Apparently not wgeurts. You should convince your other head that they should be voting me for huntmaster! I look forward to your various thoughts on lots of things. ^^

I'd rather first know why you're the better option and have your be master at a later time, in my eyes with what I know ABR is currently the better option.

*sigh*

You will know 100% of the time tomorrow morning.

-Cerb

pedit: I don't know GW. Because they're talking a lot? I don't believe anyone gave much of a reason why they were voting for them. *shrug*

[Reasonably Irrational]

I also had a theory that the A50/Toogeloo/Shadow_step votes represented a rebellion against the forming town bloc by those who have been excluded from it.

A50 and shadow_step both said they'd be willing to vote for one of the two of us as well, but for some reason they ended up voting for R&L and propping that particular wagon up to compete with ours, rather than propelling anyone into a clear lead.

It's something I'd do super deliberately to see how people reacted, but I somehow doubt that's why they did it.

A50: Why did you vote R&L over me again, for huntmaster?

R&L: Anything less than an incredibly strong town read I will not be voting for as huntmaster. You're null, and that's because I'm rebelling against a desire to scum read you solely because of the composition of your support(as GW just mentioned). You're quite far from town. What makes you think I town read you? What have you EVER done in this game that I've expressed approval of or agreement with?

-Cerb

pedit: But, I agree with it? Obviously he implied a greater degree of certainty than you can have, but he said the same thing i've been saying, only in absolute terms.

[Reasonably Irrational]

Who said I won't make a town block in the haunt? your just putting words in my mouth. I said that becuase I'm a leader I won't just decide something on my own.

even if I have to power to do so.

town needs guidence not leading. why we lost saga to you guys? for town leaders who started arguing with eachother. instead they could start trying to understand eachother. thats what i'm going to do if I get that title. I will make a town block but I won't force my opinions in game.

~Rylai

ABR was spot on the entire game, on almost everything. His plans were blown by a group of people who didn't think stuff through, which me and cerb took for granted.

And by scum who missed their auto-win.

^5

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I have something interesting to say, but that can wait. >.>

No, it can't. Speak up.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I have something interesting to say, but that can wait. >.>

No, it can't. Speak up.

-Cerb

I was hoping to get some town reads off of this exercise, but no luck.

I don't think that's going to happen anyway so here goes.

If you look at my ISO and the vote counts you'll realise that I shifted my vote twice without posting in the thread....
I didn't pm the mod to switch votes either ...

Ah. Yeah, people aren't paying enough attention to you.

FA, I enjoy playing with you. However you're be detrimental to the town.

+1

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm pretty entertained right now, and GW knows why.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm pretty entertained right now, and GW knows why.

-Cerb

Herding cats is a nightmare, care to help?

I burned all my energy sparring with R&L this morning. I'm just kinda observing now.

-Cerb

pedit: D&D, and THAT'S WHY I WAS SO ENTERTAINED! Classic wgeurts fake vig and he used AN ITEM IN THE GAMES SHOP THAT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WASN'T A VIG!!

^^

[Reasonably Irrational]

This is doubly hilarious that his own hydra partner posted in here to ask him about that, instead of asking in their hydra PT.

OH dwlee.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I need to leave , my health condition is not letting me to stay.

pedit : I'm just tired and in acondition that I don't like to talk with you anymore . and no. talk with shiro. I think me being the huntmaster is not a bad move for this town.

bye

Feel better FA. For the record, I'm sorry I laughed at the whole situation when it seems it made you feel unwell.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Interestingly, for some reason when dwlee posted, I thought he was D&D. I don't know why. So, when you get to that part D&D, it wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at dwlee. No idea why I thought it was you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

You know what this means though wgeurts? It means there's a day vig. In every Varsoon game where you fake vig someone on D1, there's always a real day vig lurking somewhere.

-cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I don't trust that she's going to put town in her hunting party. I don't believe she's as good at identifying town as either Mixed6 or myself.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

And ABR, you're being too hasty. I get that the game stalled, but it has picked up, and we do have time, as Nahdia said.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

tbt to space dandy 2 where cerb was getting his knickers in a twist because people (myself included) from dim 1 were voting in Titus as the ship captain instead of Elbrin whom he was sure was the better choice but then in the end it turned out Titus was town and Elbrin was scum ^_~

That was a mechanical miscount on my part, at the start of the day I thought he could have won by moving a certain crew, but my count was off.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

A50: Why did you vote R&L over me again, for huntmaster?

Because I didn't like one of the members you proposed to take with you (I don't remember whom as I don't even remember who you proposed to take with you, but -gun to my head and totally off the top of my head- it could've been randomidget. I COULD be totally off though about it being midget, but you get the notion.)

Thoughts on Mixed?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Re: this HUNTMASTER voting, I'd prefer every candidate to announce their intended team formation if you want my vote. I'm still behind Cerb bc he's obv.towning the most + his mechanical bla bla (whatever that is), but I don't like him taking ABR along with him. If someone else has a better formation (including themselves being obv.town) I would consider switching my vote.

RI, Mixed, R&L and GW are all confirmed townies to me.

Ranger & KC are strong town leans, while H&M, D&D and Zulfy are mild town leans.

Everyone else is between null-town and a strong scum read.

OK, done! *Sigh of relief*

HUNTMASTER VOTE: Mixed

vote: Bogre

Please explain the progression of your Mixed6 read.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

I'm also kinda confused why any of the three hydras care about who's going to be huntsmaster?
You're all going to end up in the hunting party together regardless so why is it even relevant?

R&L isn't going to end up in my party. I *doubt* they'll end up in Mixed6's, but I could be wrong.

Toogeloo: How have they been more transparent than anyone else? I said I have a mechanical reason for it. Mixed6 just says they're the best choice for it. R&L just said "they have a plan that guarantees a town win".

-Cerb

[Reasonably Irrational]

Please explain the progression of your Mixed6 read.

Not today. Just trust me on -at least- my top 4 town reads for now.

There's a clear contradiction there. You disliked Mixed6 strongly enough to prefer R&L over me, your top townread at the time, but you forgot that they were the reason for that choice. As far as I can tell, no major statements were made about them over the intervening 1500 posts or whatever, and they have suddenly become strongly town.

There is no "not today".

A lynch isn't happening until you explain yourself.

-Cerb