Shadowrun Mafia - Game Over

[MathBlade]

Can someone please give a list of what is available and what is taken? I can't read the chart on mobile at work?

[MathBlade]

Draft: Gender Neutral Street Samurai

Picture upper left gender neutrals

[MathBlade]

For the messages is there a limit to how many characters are in the message?

How will we be able to know if we can buy things/do things with this shop?

Will scum on an adventure auto fail it or are their dice just contributed regardless of alignment?

[MathBlade]

Major transmission issues just got my baby (car) back. Won't be on til late tonight

[MathBlade]

Also been reading more of hte setup.
So basically anyone we lynch goes to jail and they won't flip till no one can be released.

I wonder if jail might be a good place to put strong town so as to protect them?
Or if they aren't protected in jail then that won't matter

~Fire

This is a good idea in the middle of the game. In the beginning we need good town voices in order to help lynch scum. I don't like this as we have no idea if/when that strong town will come back or if that strong town read is actually town.

FoS Grovyle

[MathBlade]

guys, we must put jaereed in a jail cell, in order to protect the shadowrunners!
Also if we have someone who can execute the treestumps, like a jailor who can also release or something.
They should instant execute jaereed.

VOTE: Grovyle

We have no way of knowing what happens in jail and you want to just randomly put the person in charge of missions in there? And how do you know if they are/are not tree stumps? For all we know they could be completely separate. In Shadowrun lore prison was really bad for a runner and they sure as hell couldn't communicate.

[MathBlade]

I really don't think jailing people we think are town is a good strategy lol, because we don't know if jail actually protects them from night kills or not, and neutralizing towns strong players roles, seems like a terrible idea.

Forget I suggested it

~Fire

No.

[MathBlade]

Firebringer, is this JaeReed push RVS, or serious? Would you make this push regardless of who held this position on D1, or are there players you wouldn't push on this basis?

Is this a JaeReed push, or a "leader day 1" push?
-Cerb

Leader Day 1 based on Mod Meta.
I have no read on Jaereed.

I just think varsoon likes to give all the treats to scum in beginning.

~Fire

Let's give some better background.

There have been 3 games so far with this mechanic.

In the first game, Saga Frontier the D1 leader was town, and the power they gained by being the leader was limited. They could not select a group to go with them, and they basically just gained the benefits from one adventure, in addition to a single ability, and the role with said starting role had no abilities to start.

In Space Dandy there were 3 initial party members, and the leader/captain was scum. Mechanically, being leader D1 gave scum one free roleblock, one extra vote, and the ability to have moved three slots to the other game/potentially increased the chance of their team retaining control, AND (and this is most critical) a slot on their team who captaincy would always default back to in the event that they killed the captain-elect+had killed all intervening captains. This was a fairly major mechanical advantage, allowing scum to guarantee endgame scenarios where they had control of the ship.

In Bloodborne, scum were the initial leader, AND they had full control over the membership of said party. This was easily the most power the position offered to the scum team, allowing them the ability to have potentially put the game into a quicklynching situation on D3 In a 20+ player game, had they aimed to maximize power.

So, with all that said..the likelihood of scum JaeReed based on mod meta, is purely going to be based on the mechanical interactions within this game. We must also account for the fact that Titus also worked on this game, so it won't be solely Varsoon's influence showing here.

Basically, your meta argument is crap, we don't have enough information.

-Cerb

@cowboy: I fucking wish. I wanted infiltrator to be obvscum role name that I could argue was too obviously scummy to be scum. :p

Talk about this one. Not the past. This is all gambler's fallacy and useless to read you.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Jaereed

Two distinct things you gotta know about varsoon games.
Varsoon makes sme weird mechanics, and if this is anything like bloodborne, the original party leader is scum. ALWAYS!

That means jaereed must be lynched because of game mechanics, ALWAYS

No ifs ands or butts.

MOD META THIS GAME TO DEATH!!!


FOR BLOOBORNE!

~Fire

[also never moving my vote. This must go]

Hate this mod meta from Fire. Trying to out-mod meta Varsoon is absurd and will never work.
Plus his meta is inaccurate too. The initial leader was town in Saga, like others have noted.

VOTE: Jaereed

Jaereed is confirmed scum!
@Fire - Do I need to know anything about the setup for day 1?

I don't like this insta sheep from Vedith either.

Space Cowboy's posting is scummy, but it might just be DS's posting style. We'll see, holding off there.

VOTE: Grovyle

-dragons

I like this. D&D townread.

[MathBlade]

I'm interested in kidnapping, murder or scouting.

Wtf???

Like how is that even remotely town?

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

I need more rope still scumreading Grovyle.

[MathBlade]

Jaereed, Dragons is scum. If you want missions involving heavy combat and stealth, such as kidnapping, murder and scouting, I'm your guy. Pair me up with a IT guy, a demolitions guy, and we're in business. If you select other missions, I'm fine waiting until the next round.

Derp didn't realize it was about the missions.

VOTE: Unvote

Don't like the D&D ABR exchange. Want to reread it again tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

@All

Anyway, do we want to run two adventures or do we want to play this a little more cautiously N1? I read a bit of Bloodborne's PTs when they were released and saw that the runs tended to put some people in the party at a disadvantage for the next day. I'd rather go with what majority wants here.

I would say run two missions. Reason being is we only have a limited window to do two missions. And it we can get a better feel about certain groups of people. However it can be risky if we fail it. I am okay either way but I think we take advantage.

[MathBlade]

Anyway guys, it's my birthday in an hour and I'll be

V/LA for a couple days

.

Cheers

Happy Birthday!

[MathBlade]

@Abr

For the record, nope. I don't think I have found anyone difficult to deal with and I have an innate abbility of not getting offended easily by most stuff. You are headstrong and trust your reads more than whatever others say. Tbh I think that is s good trait for this game.

Only twice I have been angered by playing mafia. Once in warcraft mafia when I managed to slither away from just having flavour claimed scum only to be killed by the vig for thinking I am sk.

And second when almost killed us in bloodborn. I was bloody furious when I saw it.

@Vedith I am pretty sure it was just Japanese. horror. Having spent two days reading jinjo ito. I would rate it mild :p

P.edit

Fire how can you say that D: I am in the game. Of course it will be. ^_^

This post is horrible.

Not only does this say "Hey you don't know me" (paraphrase) and contains no useful reads it is just trying to correct meta and not solve the game. Between that and sheeping and ugh. Rope needed.

VOTE: Space Cowboy

What are your reads Space Cowboy?

[MathBlade]

guys, we must put jaereed in a jail cell, in order to protect the shadowrunners!
Also if we have someone who can execute the treestumps, like a jailor who can also release or something.
They should instant execute jaereed.

VOTE: Grovyle

We have no way of knowing what happens in jail and you want to just randomly put the person in charge of missions in there? And how do you know if they are/are not tree stumps? For all we know they could be completely separate. In Shadowrun lore prison was really bad for a runner and they sure as hell couldn't communicate.

I read that as him trying to make his wagon on me seem like a definite threat to me. I didn't think it was a serious call, tbh. Just like how he calls for speedlynching.

I hate that game. Blah :/ That at the start messed with all my reads.

[MathBlade]

Mathblade: all that noise was in response to FB's assertion that he could use mod meta to determine alignments at this point, and if you actually read the post(you did, right?) you should have noted that at the end I told him that the point of that whole wall of text was to demonstrate that we didn't have enough information for his hypothesis to be of much use as an argument regarding someone's alignment.

Also, generally speaking, I'm really not concerned with helping people read me. I don't care how you read me, I just care that when I find scum and prove that x must be scum for y reasons, the town falls in line.

(DS, I believe *this* particular brand of arrogance here is what some people were talking about when they were talking about me being an ass or something. You defended me, but, well, I AM sort of an asshole...but I'm not a jerk. )

Anyways, you are right in your assertion that all my posts so far have been pretty useless in terms of, well, figuring anything alignment related out. I'm sure it will all become clear shortly though.

Jaereed: I'm very precise in the verbiage used in my posts(when I'm at a computer, at least). I *specifically* used the words "You can certainly try" because I knew I was just about to point out why any attempt to "shove it down" my throat would be doomed to failure. I originally had the post saying "Sure, but..", and chose to change it to "You can certainly try" specifically to make it clear that I didn't agree with the conclusion that if JaeReed was scum, it meant Grovyle's logic was sound. Also, I DO clearly entertain the idea of you being scum, I just refuse to entertain the idea that groyvle's logic is a good reason to think you are.

Point being, don't expect to actually be able to determine anything alignment related from me by virtue of semantics, as either alignment I'm generally very careful about the exact words I use.

-Cerb

pedit: Oh. JaeReed apparently noticed that his observation wasn't correct.

Yes I read the entire thing. It was what lead me to think your posts were useless. It was a lot of words just to say "Don't fucking meta read" and didn't give reads. Hence useless.

Do you have any "X then Y" or "X then Z" reads? I see you may be entertaining an idea of something but do you have a read?

[MathBlade]

guys, we must put jaereed in a jail cell, in order to protect the shadowrunners!
Also if we have someone who can execute the treestumps, like a jailor who can also release or something.
They should instant execute jaereed.

VOTE: Grovyle

We have no way of knowing what happens in jail and you want to just randomly put the person in charge of missions in there? And how do you know if they are/are not tree stumps? For all we know they could be completely separate. In Shadowrun lore prison was really bad for a runner and they sure as hell couldn't communicate.

I read that as him trying to make his wagon on me seem like a definite threat to me. I didn't think it was a serious call, tbh. Just like how he calls for speedlynching.

I hate that game. Blah :/ That at the start messed with all my reads.

I didn't mention that game for a reason, lol. But now that you've brought it up... Rethink your stance on Grovyle? You misread him in that game, too.

@Math Are you town?

Is it wrong that I hope they aren't so I can lynch them?

~Fire

Be nice <3

I will see if I need to adjust after I reread tomorrow.

And it actually isn't wrong to hope I am scum. What would be wrong is to tunnel me unless you believe I am scum. You and I have had "interesting" games before so I can understand where it comes from.

[MathBlade]

Actually no, I forgot about that. It was the one where I sheeped Titus. Davsto's game. You were scum.but I townread you till very late game if I recall.

Also I am talking about melancholy nights no FA game.

Both yalls meta arguments are crap.

I hate when people look/vouch for town tells. This is a game. This game has posts.

Read those posts interact with those posts.

[MathBlade]

Or you simply choose the context of the posts you want to answer to, while ignoring the bigger scope argument debate.

~Fire

Or it is 11 pm and I realize you are right on that being looking for a scum tell and not a town tell and I still hate meta reads. Cowboy IMHO is scum but I think meta reads are shit.

[MathBlade]

Almost midnight fuck can't even read a clock*

[MathBlade]

Math didn't answer my question about whether they're town

It was implied in the paragraph to Fire.

Yes I am town.

Good night.

[MathBlade]

Too many words to read before I go to work will check later.

[MathBlade]

Stop mechanics talk start read talk.

@Karnos too many unknowns for probabilities. I can link to a simple probability calculator if that helps you or if you give a little bit to calculate I can.

Will respond in depth tonight.

[MathBlade]

Catching up people.

[MathBlade]

Scum FB is more careful of how he speaks

.

Like exact word for words what said as scum.
And Shiro was 100% making it up.

Somehow I bought it.

~Fire

VOTE: Vote Grovyle

I just don't like his tone so far combined with the attempted mod meta read earlier.

This is weird...I don't like this vote from Worldzmine. You made a point of showing how that push wasn't scum oriented but Worldz votes Grovyle without touching/interacting with your post. It's probably this that makes Grovyle likely town.

[MathBlade]

His vote

their vote

Sorry. Trying to make it a point to get pronouns correct.

This feels like a bit of a suckup and a lot of their mechanics posts are bad.

For the missions IMHO we should be doing missions that we think have town AND a hard to find skill set. A big rule of Shadowrun games is always bring a friend and never go it alone. So I would take those mission names and guess what could be on them...Like demolitions probably need good people with demolitions...Murder probably needs good combat and go from there. List the people based on the chart who seem to match those and put the towniest of those even if they have a number or two lower.

Then combine that with Worldzmine's soft defense of Karnos doing that is all kinds of fugly.

Also PeregrineV's lurkiness is a problem. They lurk a fuck ton as scum. This needs lots of poking. Same with KilingonCelt. Lots of lurkiness. Hell the MOD has more posts than people. This game feels lurktastic yet there is a lot of posting but from the same few voices.

I need more poking sticks and rope.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Probabilities table

Number of Dice rolled	Probability of at least one succeeding	Number of expected successess
1	0.333333333333333	0
2	0.555555555555556	0
3	0.703703703703704	1
4	0.802469135802469	1
5	0.868312757201646	1
6	0.912208504801097	2
7	0.941472336534065	2
8	0.960981557689377	2
9	0.973987705126251	3
10	0.982658470084167	3
11	0.988438980056112	3
12	0.992292653370741	4
13	0.994861768913827	4
14	0.996574512609218	4
15	0.997716341739479	5
16	0.998477561159653	5
17	0.998985040773102	5
18	0.999323360515401	6
19	0.999548907010267	6
20	0.999699271340178	6
21	0.999799514226785	7
22	0.999866342817857	7
23	0.999910895211905	7
24	0.999940596807936	8
25	0.999960397871958	8
26	0.999973598581305	8
27	0.999982399054203	9
28	0.999988266036136	9
29	0.999992177357424	9

Enjoy now let's get back to mafia. I have to go but this should help. The last column is because of the first post saying you need a certain number of successes.

[MathBlade]

Off to work I go. Catching up tonight.

[MathBlade]

Catching up now.

[MathBlade]

Because 1) I have a light town read on you
2) I taught Karnos a few things about being scum and he is doing those things.
3) The question could be asked to anyone.
4) When the entire game is talking mechanics and I ask many times to not do that and it still does. So I decided the best way to deal with that was to just take the 5 minutes to throw it in excel and copy paste than argue longer after I got back.

Still reading.

[MathBlade]

Pedit: Karnos, there are more town than scum. It is almost certain that an all town composition can be created to deal with ANY mission in this game. Prioritizing certain success over denying scum power is very dumb.

Sure, if you can 100% accurately detect scum on day 1 with zero false positives.

OTOH, if you can do that who gives a shit about missions? Just lynch all the scum and win, easy game is easy.

In reality, where we don't have magical scum detection on day 1, the alternative is to only send the most confirmed town, of which there might only be 2-4 players depending on who you ask. I don't think it's far fetched to suggest that those few characters might not be perfectly optimized for every mission.

This one here is a very good example of it. Namely trying to be loud and completely wrong but be so damn adamant about being wrong that no one would believe you actually do that as town. It fooled a lot of people til I scum claim hammered and then Saru recruited Karnos instead of conf!town it worked that well.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=24731

There is the game and PT towards the end.

VOTE: Karnos

[MathBlade]

As scum*

Between what looks to be a scum v scum fight to try to raise SpaceCowboy read and that they completely ignored my point earlier about sucking up and their entire fight is mechanics instead of anything useful this looks like a repeat of 1800 so freaking bad.

[MathBlade]

Also PeregrineV's lurkiness is a problem. They lurk a fuck ton as scum. This needs lots of poking. Same with KilingonCelt. Lots of lurkiness. Hell the MOD has more posts than people. This game feels lurktastic yet there is a lot of posting but from the same few voices.

I need more poking sticks and rope.

MathBlade is Scum.

They wouldn't be so concerned with PereV's and my standard NAI gameplay otherwise.

VOTE: MathBlade

It is AI here. However your responses after my push likely make you town. As town when you lurk and post you do try to sneak in periods when people are online. As scum it is a lot less. And as town you inexplicably scumread me a lot. I still remember the USMafia games maaaaan.

By calling out lurkers I can then see how they respond if at all to being called a lurker. You're wrong on me being scum but I think you are town for it.

[MathBlade]

Eyyyy I got another strong townread. This time of the "holy crap you voiced what I thought" variety.

Math, what's your opinion on Klingon's vote on you?

Was just responding to that. I think it is indicative of Klingon being town.

[MathBlade]

Firebringer read list:

Town: ABR, Yume
Leaning Town: Jaereed
Null: Everyone Not Listed
Leaning Scum: Cowboy
Hoping Is Scum: Mathblade

~Fire

I noticed you hope I am scum, but what is your read on me?

[MathBlade]

How can you not have a read on me FB?

Probably because everything you have done and said I expect out of you from any alignment.
So you are not one I think gives good tells on your alignments.

Though in Bloodborne I distinctly remember having you as strong town from day 1.

~Fire

This may have partly been due to an obv town role related interaction between me and him.

Firebringer read list:

Town: ABR, Yume
Leaning Town: Jaereed
Null: Everyone Not Listed
Leaning Scum: Cowboy
Hoping Is Scum: Mathblade

~Fire

Update

Leaning Town: Jaereed, Randomidget, Klingoncelt, and Karnos
Leaning Scum: Worldz, Cowboy, Daenarys

I agree with this except on karnos and D&D (no read on D&D slight scum lean on karnos)

Agreed on JaeReed,Midget,KlignonCelt probably town. I am actually leaning towards putting D&D as town because SirCakez is in there.
Scumreads Karnos, Cowboy, Worldz, and Kogg although I don't think both Kogg and Cowboy can be scum together.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade is acting a bit weird compared to the last game, maybe this is town MathBlade? I dunno. I've just never seen them not tunnel one person continually.

I'm kinda busy today, not sure if I can be active or not. I don't feel any reason to move my vote, Space Cowboy still looks like a good pick for prison IMO.

This feels icky.

[MathBlade]

At work til late.

[MathBlade]

..

You are a low content player. Always.

You are rarely around, and you do not post very much when you are around. Always.

These are not necessarily bad things, but they are things lurkers do. Just because you are not attempting to lurk, it does not mean that your play isn't analogous to that of lurkers.

Why are you so offended by someone choosing to use a shorthand for describing your play style?

-Cerb

Yes, I'm always a low-content player.

Deal.

It's better that I keep my low content limited to a few sentences in a few posts as opposed to wallposts of fluff, no?

But that's not what MathBlade said.

She said I lurk. Lurk means hang around and not do anything.

I don't do that.

I'll often log into a game and then have a shit-ton of meatworld things to do, so it takes me hours to go through a few pages.

But that's not lurking.

Sometimes I can come in, read through, make my post(s) and split.

That's not lurking.

I don't lurk. I don't have time to lurk.

It doesn't matter what your opinion is: what matters is mine. I absolutely do not agree with you on it. To me a low content poster is a lurker. There is a definition on the wiki called active lurking that sums up thoughts nicely. It is the amount of content that is provided to where I define a lurker.

Therefore until you do stuff like you are now, I will always consider you a lurker. To quote you: "Deal."

The question becomes why does how I perceive you bother you so much?

[MathBlade]

@RR there are like 5 posts in the matrix pt. So far i nullread the ppl in there
But i kinda dislike the way you implied that we are most likely a good PR because of low stats. If you want just openly ask scum to kill us?
Im not going to say if we have a lot of power or not for obvious reasons, but did it ever cross your mind that we have low stats because we have rasther rare stats? Maybe the combination of our stats is needed often? There are so many possibilities, why point out that single one that is not good for us?

I didn't imply anything. I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already) and shared the numbers, very deliberately avoiding mentioning the obvious possibility that your role has powers to make up for the low stats.

It was Space Cowboy who came along and actually pointed out that possibility while ignoring all others (such as the fact that your role may have some unique utility on missions, or some other effect that makes up for the low stats).

Why did you believe I was the one who noted that? Do you still dislike that it was mentioned, regardless of who actually brought it up?

-Cerb

Why are you assuming scum are data driven? And furthermore why mention the lower stats people at all? It is like you are assuming scum would do things like you. Reminds me of what got told to me a lot in the Yuri game and what I am working on fixing. Furthermore I find it weird you are okay with mechanics decisions yet post scum are trying to do data calculations to find PRs. If they were doing such a thing mechanics spec helps them which is why I tried to keep the game focused on Mafia rather than setup spec because scum can't hide there.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[MathBlade]

@RR I think that its a bad comment to make, as either alignment. But its also not nonsensical. If it comes from scum it could be a try to buddy, if it comes from town its just baiting scum to the players he mentioned. Both are wrong and should be questioned.
So i would have pointed it out, regardless of who said it. And yes, if it really were you who said that it was more worrying, since im townreading you while i have no clue about cowboy.

Also i believe 21 pages with content is very poor for a 17 player game. I made a catch up post and only koggz and D&D mentioned some part of it. Where is the discussion? Ask away, attack, whatever?

-S

Horrible post.

As I posted earlier I was at work. Not even waiting 24 hours before going "hey where's the replies?" is bad. Furthermore if you think something is a horrible comment as either alignment what makes you town read them?

Lastly in your catchup post you said "Let me try to start a wagon...." And the person you try to wagon isn't in your scumreads list and you say Cowboy's posts are scummy as fuck.

Karnos, Space Cowboy, DM all aligned?

[MathBlade]

I had a big multiquote then it disappeared somehow q.q
I'll just put my thoughts here

RR - at the time of your comment that said "I only make early pushes when there's massive contradictions but no one is talking" there were nearly 20 pages. How is that "no one talking"?

I didn't mind Grovyle's Koggz's vote but Space Cowboy following them on it was really awful.
Koggz is a town lean for me
Also lean town on PV
-dragons

15 pages would be more accurate, and the majority of that was groyle and space cowboy, with a bit of JaeReed and myself, and it was largely setup and mechanic discussion.

So yes, that is no one talking.

-Cerb

And you townread everyone who was posting during that time?

-dragons

I like dragons head. Not sure who is who of the heads but dragons head seems to have good questions.

[MathBlade]

@RR I've put in placeholders just in case, but there's some further tweaking I'd like to do.

Comments/Thoughts on the recent postings?

[MathBlade]

1. Then you should probably explain the read, because the only post he made since your last post was that readlist...

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

But of course I probably sound like some condescending jerk who thinks that they are above everyone else. So what do I know?

koggz be more specific then

I won't rank my townreads. I'll list them in order of how much information I feel I've given as to my reasonings for why they're townreads, though.

like this
is pro town behavior

So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise.

not like this


also

2. Yeah yeah yeah, you've beat the dead horse over and over that you don't like my mechanics/setup spec posts. But that's what I do. If you don't like it, I'd suggest you get over it, because that's how I play the game. To me, it's a number game, and by looking at the numbers, I can beat it.

more exaggeration
koggz have zero problem with mechanics/setup speculation

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used. Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players. This worries Math.

Math is concerned that maybe Cowboy is town lynchbait then Koggz is scum.

Any particular reason for the third person talk Koggz? Would Koggz prefer a specific pronoun?

[MathBlade]

From that post -- I noted the data ( as I'm sure *someone* on the scum team was smart enough to do already

Yes you said that scum were doing calculations.
And scum don't have to find town. So why the hell else would they do calculations?

Thirdly why the hell do you put me as scum as a townread of yours.
You said and I quote "if after this game I go to the scum PT and see you didn't think to do this".
Guess what genius I am not in the scum PT and trying to suggest that is all kinds of bad.

Mafia is a game of reading people. I use numbers to supplement but not make my case. Posting certain things only hurts people regardless of how easy it is to do. I could use my math degree and post a shit ton of things and write a program to do a lot of things. however I find the more numbers talk the less engaged people can be.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

Pedit: KlingonCelt as they said have many different things to do in meat world at times. I asked again specifically to see if a certain response comes up. But now that you mentioned ignoring it is invalid. *sigh*

[MathBlade]

Never said you thought that post was AI. I asked why you townread them. They have a bad post and you posted as such and I wanted your updated read on them.

Missed Grovyle in the list in my read sorry. And IMHO it is because of how Fire posted a derpy suggestion in here and reacted similar to the Yuri game I townread them. It warrants a townread because Firebringer.

What you post is your actions? Not quite sure the distinction you are making but I find it weird after I vote RR you immediately want me to switch gears to Cowboy.

I think something is off there or my alignment theory. What do you think of RR?

I have waaaaaaaaaaay too many scumreads. *Yanks hair on head*

I will work on the Cowboy case but RR I think needs rope more.

[MathBlade]

Umm, aside from Math and Grovyle, all of those are generally universally townread...

I don't see how that readlist could catapult him to town.

Which makes me suspicious...

It is a lot of little posts like this. Where he digs at other players stances but yet doesn't seem to have any stances of their own.

They made a post about "I am so scummy but don't lynch me please"

And Shiro's sig while in Mass Effect Mafia was about being so obviously scum but yet no one wanted to lynch them.
Hell that game I pointed out he was scum (wrong faction but still....)

Space Cowboy looks like they are deflecting to try to stay alive that much I agree on and it is a matter of if it is town or scum survivalism. Right now I think scum but RR needs rope for their bad posting a bit ago.

[MathBlade]

Umm, aside from Math and Grovyle, all of those are generally universally townread...

I don't see how that readlist could catapult him to town.

Which makes me suspicious...

It is a lot of little posts like this. Where he digs at other players stances but yet doesn't seem to have any stances of their own.

They made a post about "I am so scummy but don't lynch me please"

And Shiro's sig while in Mass Effect Mafia was about being so obviously scum but yet no one wanted to lynch them.
Hell that game I pointed out he was scum (wrong faction but still....)

Space Cowboy looks like they are deflecting to try to stay alive that much I agree on and it is a matter of if it is town or scum survivalism. Right now I think scum but RR needs rope for their bad posting a bit ago.

Shiro hasn't posted for 3 days. This has legit only been me. So your read is now bullshit.

-DS

Lol. Wow.

I point out all the scummy shit your slot does. You say my points are invalid because of Shiro not posting. How the hell would I know that when you can't be fucking bothered to sign your posts.

Furthermore the survivalism and not posting reads is true regardless of which head it is. The fact that you deflect me instead of scumhunting is crap. Do you have a scumhunting bone in your body? You complete gloss over the fact that you aren't even trying.

@RR: it is about where that conclusion goes. People just don't note "Oh a 2 has a curve at the top and a flat base." No. They make conclusions off of it. If scum are stupid so be it but I am not going to make life easier on them. For me it is about reads and quite frankly that post rubbed me all kinds of wrong. The only game I have been with you is ongoing so I can't really speak to much of your meta argument but that last post does explain why it is not a slip while actually trying to figure out where I came from on it.

And no. You don't explicitly state "X is a townread." It is how you carry yourself e.g. In the interaction with KlingonCelt earlier. Most people I have found here don't do that and it pisses me off. I always try to be as transparent as possible which is why anytime any where you can ask me for my read on a player. Like you pushed JaeReed to list them in a post I try to look for what a person believes when they post.

However they one thing I definitely did not do is put words in your mouth. I am extremely literal. Anyone who knows me knows I am Titus's sibling and that as much as I hate to admit it we share common traits. Like reading literally and thinking strategically.

Again I will restate what I said to KlingonCelt in a new way. Intent doesn't matter. What matters is how that message is received. And let me tell you. Message fucking received that you use lots of sarcastic humor and that wasn't a slip. Message fucking received.

VOTE: Space Cowboy

Gonna contribute to this game soon anything useful?

[MathBlade]

Everyone, thoughts on likelihood of scum within those separate groupings?

-Cerb

I'd say it's safe to assume there's a scum in both groups.

koggz think this approach is flawed
unless alignment not chosen randomly

Because Koggz participate in setup spec in a small way and Koggz says they have no problem with it. Ergo Koggz likes setup spec. Koggz doesn't have to say certain words to leave an impression.

@KlingonCelt -- Neither is yours. In this case it is my perception of you and I am that arbiter. Right now you are not lurking. Before you were.

And I do not expect that no. I wanted to see how you responded to that question because IMHO you respond to pressure as town and scum as different alignments.

[MathBlade]

I would like all people who can view the matrix/astral pt to claim this, please

I have no access whatsoever to either of the PTs at this time.

Ditt to the O.

[MathBlade]

Math thinks Koggz likes setup spec because of how they responded not because they did.

It is not a leap. If Math says they have zero problems with cheese and then is seen eating cheese, it is therefore a logical conclusion math likes cheese. Similarly you did the same. The last question Math does not follow.

[MathBlade]

@Koggz Math cannot show what Math did not say. Math merely stated their perceptions. Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't. Math does not understand your concern.

@JaeReed Post restrictions are fun. I love doing fun things! Hell I feel honored that you would consider me. The entire point of the game is to have fun so if people have fun then I do too. Tell me more please! I am so glad Titus and Varsoon may have put in post restriction things!!

[MathBlade]

Lynched players wind up in prison, rather than killed outright. A maximum of two players may return from the game after being imprisoned. Lynched players do not flip until no one can be released from prison anymore. There may or may not be mechanics that allow people to communicate with those in prison. When no one can escape or be released from prison anymore, all players in prison will flip and will die. All flips are confirmed accurate (no actresses/tricksters, death millers, godfathers, etc).

^^ Lynched players do not flip WorldzMine

[MathBlade]

Missed Grovyle in the list in my read sorry. And IMHO it is because of how Fire posted a derpy suggestion in here and reacted similar to the Yuri game I townread them. It warrants a townread because Firebringer.

Is this your way of saying you don't want to have a huge fight between us?

I see zero similarities between me now and Yuri.
I don't really believe you have a townread on me.

~Fire

I see lots of them.
Post something dumb.
Be townread for posting that dumb thing.
Never apologize for dumb thing.

You are less loud than in the Yuri game but you are similar to it IMO.

[MathBlade]

Umm, aside from Math and Grovyle, all of those are generally universally townread...

I don't see how that readlist could catapult him to town.

Which makes me suspicious...

not townreading jaereed because of the names on jaereed read list

Thank you sir numbers. Interesting the spread of numbers, but that was probably dangerous to do, as it's a safe assumption that the low stats roles make up for their stats in other abilities... So, if you've got a protective role, DM, Mcmenno, and Koggz are probably good ideas for a target, statisticswise. However, that's to say nothing about your reads on them, which should always be paramount. But if you townread them, and you've got a protective role, then they're likely a good choice.

koggz not like this post

Here is an example for Koggz.
Koggz says they don't like Cowboy's post that was nothing but mechanics. So why does Koggz think it is bad for Cowboy to do yet has zero problems with it?

Math is phone posting getting to other quote from Koggz in a second.

[MathBlade]

Pedit: Still maintain mass claim was dumb.
Even if you don't the launch out of the gate with mechanics talk which was shot down looks like Yuri again.

[MathBlade]

@Koggz Math cannot show what Math did not say. Math merely stated their perceptions.

Math wonder why koggz likes setup spec but then is selective about where they like it being used.

where did you perceive koggz being selective about like and not like setup speculation?

Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't.

Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players.

Koggz not responding doesn't mean not answering all questions. It means Math wonders where your natural responses are to events in thread. Math doesn't see any.

[MathBlade]

Agree to disagree. Mass claim is terrible until required always.

Pants. These are the most important thing.

[MathBlade]

Math must operate their vehicle to their domicile now. Math wishes everyone a good night.

[MathBlade]

Koggz has answered all questions. Again math did not imply you didn't.

Math wonders why Koggz is not responding to more players.

Koggz not responding doesn't mean not answering all questions. It means Math wonders where your natural responses are to events in thread. Math doesn't see any.

koggz comment when have something to say
koggz respond when asked something

Math says they want you to be more proactive instead of reactive. This is Math's point.

Math wonders if they are an attempted counter wagon as Space Cowboy picks up steam.

[MathBlade]

Trade: Devil's Bargain Ring
To: MathBlade
Conditions: All references to yourself, such as your name or a first person pronoun, must be replaced with 'The Great and Powerful Trixie'.
Number of charges left after passing: 1

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know how to submit The Great and Powerful Trixie's agreement to the ring. The Great and Powerful Trixie also wishes to know if The Great and Powerful Trixie can abbreviate TGPT.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie has to do meat world things now.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to hear from JaeReed about ring acceptance criteria.

The Great and Powerful Trixie accepts the ring if mods needed The Great and Powerful Trixie to type in bold

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie puts on the ring.

The one ring to rule all pronouns.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know why you picked them.

The Great and Powerful Trixie finds that D&D is right about me being town but reasoning flawed. The Great and Powerful Trixie tries to poke everyone regardless of The Great and Powerful Trixie's alignment.

@McMenno - Will you post something soon? Or just ask for PT claims? *glares* The Great and Powerful Trixie is worried about McMenno.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is using this site to define first person pronouns:

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/educat ... ird-person

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie will use multiple Great and Powerful Trixie if referring to Great and Powerful Trixie is with another person as great and powerful Trixie cannot say w with the next letter after it being the letter after d.

The great and powerful Trixie will figure out how to make the other pronouns work later.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know if the moderator considers this the same understanding the Great and Powerful Trixie has. For the Great and Powerful Trixie is wanting to make sure the great and powerful Trixie meets these conditions

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie hopes this doesn't annoy all the players in the game.

[MathBlade]

Trade: Devil's Bargain Ring
To: MathBlade
Conditions: All references to yourself, such as your name or a first person pronoun, must be replaced with 'The Great and Powerful Trixie'.
Number of charges left after passing: 1

WHAT IS THIS ?!

THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TRIXIE WILL NOT BE MOCKED BY SOME RANDOM FORUM GOERS

P.S

I WANTED THAT POST RESTRICTION, I WILL GO CRY NOW ;~;


~Shiro

The Great and Powerful Trixie says Space Cowboy doesn't have to use the ring. Space Cowboy may call Space Cowboy anything. All about love and calling players by what they wish to be called.

[MathBlade]

Trade: Devil's Bargain Ring
To: MathBlade
Conditions: All references to yourself, such as your name or a first person pronoun, must be replaced with 'The Great and Powerful Trixie'.
Number of charges left after passing: 1

WHAT IS THIS ?!

THE GREAT AND POWERFUL TRIXIE WILL NOT BE MOCKED BY SOME RANDOM FORUM GOERS

P.S

I WANTED THAT POST RESTRICTION, I WILL GO CRY NOW ;~;


~Shiro

The Great and Powerful Trixie says Space Cowboy doesn't have to use the ring. Space Cowboy may call Space Cowboy anything. All about love and calling players by what they wish to be called.

[MathBlade]

Ahh The Great and Powerful Trixie approves. The Great and Powerful Trixie is unsure what the Great and Powerful Trixie would do with it assuming the Great and Powerful Trixie doesn't make a mistake.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is having a hard enough time not typing the letter before j a lot.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know about that abbreviation.

[MathBlade]

So the Great and Powerful Trixie is a pony. Okay. Guess the Great and Powerful Trixie must use the great and powerful Google.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie puts on the ring.

The one ring to rule all pronouns.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know why you picked them.

The Great and Powerful Trixie finds that D&D is right about me being town but reasoning flawed. The Great and Powerful Trixie tries to poke everyone regardless of The Great and Powerful Trixie's alignment.

@McMenno - Will you post something soon? Or just ask for PT claims? *glares* The Great and Powerful Trixie is worried about McMenno.

I'm sorry, I've retreated into my pts to discuss the next course of action with my buddies

the great and powerful mcmenno thinks a space cowboy lynch is very good today indeed

he would not lynch mathblade or jaereed or karnos or grovyle

he would be okay with a worldzmine or d&d or detective moonlight lynch

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know about that abbreviation.

my little pony friendship is magic

VOTE: McMenno

The great and powerful Trixie is sad. The Great and Powerful Trixie has no buddies but you have buddies ergo you be scum. The Great and Powerful Trixie wanted you to be town.

[MathBlade]

McMenno said McMenno has multiple PTs.

McMenno says they have buddies.

McMenno only should be in Matrix PTs because Riggers hate Astral in Shadowrun.

McMenno must explain.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to know why RR and Space Cowboy are not voting McMenno after my explanation.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is sleepy. The Great and Powerful Trixie will look at things in the morning. Apparently even ponies need sleep.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie must go to work.

VOTE: McMenno

Putting The Great and Powerful Trixie's vote back til I can come back and read what happened.

[MathBlade]

Okay. Been doing some thinking on McMenno and I think there are four options:
1) McMenno was intentionally trolling to try to put attention on himself and then took out Space Cowboy as a good will gesture before they got likely lynched today. (This option is also town panick McMenno after a bad troll attempt.) This option McMenno is town. Space Cowboy's alignment unknown but likely scum based on prior play.
2) McMenno scum-slipped and then tried to frame Space Cowboy and when he realized that didn't work and direction was shifting off of Space Cowboy panicked and used their power to take out a townie before their lynch. This option McMenno scum and Space Cowboy town.
3) McMenno scum-slipped thrice. First time in thread the second to ask Space Cowboy for help. This makes both McMenno and Space Cowboy scum. (The third option in detail in a minute harder to explain)

Now let's take a look at each option in detail:
Let's assume McMenno is trolling and is town and had a dayvig. Why troll in the first place? And why use the dayvig? A dayvig is an extremely powerful power and up to this point McMenno was lurking yes.

They asked asked about using their power "rashly" since no one has CC'd McMenno pretty sure it is safe to say whatever happened to Space Cowboy McMenno is the cause of. Peregrine V while still being a lurk sac *glares* gets a light town read if McMenno is town for just saying no when not given anywhere near enough information to answer. At first glance this looks like a troll but could be meant for the scum PT instead. I don't really see a town vig hitting someone who was likely going to be lynched anyway. A town vig is supposed to hit someone who they believe is likely to be scum AND unlikely to be lynched.

Using it on Space Cowboy would have to mean they had a mortal fear of not surviving and no one breaking them out. However this option seems unlikely because as soon as I posted they reacted when I believe to be sarcastically. They had numerous times to explain what they did and yet they have not. For McMenno town they would have to be panicking and of which I see no evidence. Therefore option one is unlikely.

Now let's take a look at option two. In option two McMenno has slipped not once but twice. Once asking about the power use (unless planned gambit) and then again with the post I referenced before. The Space Cowboy slip would have to be a third slip which at some point I have to believe that people just don't slip that much. Furthermore I don't see a scum McMenno taking a scum Space Cowboy to prison. Therefore if McMenno is scum then Space Cowboy surely isn't. From the original post, only two people could come back from prison so sending a scum buddy d1 is a ridiculously risky gambit. This is further indication if McMenno scum space cowboy is not.

Furthermore let's take a look at the scum anonymous day vig post. This is a role madness game. Very likely without flips until much later in the game. Since this is role madness I am assuming two things: 1)Scum have more than 2 players and 2) Scum likely have powers to help with the craziness especially since scum have to not just account for getting a lynch they must think about the long term strategy itself.

This means in the world where McMenno is scum scum may think there is very little reason to have anyone bring them back. This means that in terms of long term play for McMenno they likely said "fuck it" since McMenno in this hypothetical slipped.

This means I would have expected one or more scum to have hopped on the wagon or be pressuring McMenno.

Daenerys and Dragons, Mathblade, karnos, Yume, Worldzmine are on the wagon post whatever from McMenno and RR is a loud vocal player about it. In a scum McMenno world, I remove myself because duh,town. Then D&D, Karnos,Yume, WorldzMine and RR remain. Of these I am tow reading D&D and null read RR so that means Karnos, Yume, and/or Worldzmine would be on the wagon. Likely only one because of the fact if too many pile on it becomes too apparent of a bus and then Space Cowboy then becomes townfirm unless McMenno is believed to be town which defeats the purpose of the vig as he would be broken out once we found out how. Between that and the hella weird interactions between McMenno and Worldzmine Worldzmine would be my top pick.

Now in a McMenno town world there would likely be scum trying to capitalize on McMenno's trolling. If McMenno town then Space Cowboy likely scum which makes it harder to capitalize which means if too much eagerness some flags start going up. In this world, Karnos who seems to be replicating what I taught him as scum or lurker Yume are helping to contribute to this and Worldzmine and McMenno are wtf with each other.

I think the biggest thing that becomes clear here is that it is extremely likely that McMenno and Space Cowboy are opposite alignments. It becomes a matter of we need to decide as a group of McMenno is likely scum and therefore Space Cowboy town and break him out OR McMenno is town and Space Cowboy can rot in jail.

Of the two options I actually think this makes Space Cowboy town because of all the hoops I would have to jump through to make McMenno town world work but I wanted to see what others thought. Especially since the first post says only two people may be broken out of prison then we would want to decide this as a group and not have to force a person to make a unilateral decision on their own. Pretty much I think any attempt to break someone out of prison should be a town decision. We don't know when an attempt could happen to break someone out and if the group thinks both are scum then they should both rot in prison. Or maybe we don't take the chance. But the first post says up to two people could be broken out so I wanted to throw the thoughts out there.

[MathBlade]

Oh and I got a PM stating I failed the post restriction sorry guys. Will try again tomorrow I was sicker than a dog this morning so probably where I messed up.

[MathBlade]

Oh and I got a PM stating I failed the post restriction sorry guys. Will try again tomorrow I was sicker than a dog this morning so probably where I messed up.

I hope you feel better now

Brought a box of cold and flu meds. Apparently the great and powerful Trixie can be defeated by a bug. On the bright side I didn't have to write that doing The Great and Powerful Trixie everywhere that would have been hard to read.

[MathBlade]

My PM said I could try again tomorrow but the ring reverts to Jae Reed so he could target anyone should he wish to. Since JaeReed suggested I could try again tomorrow I would like to but it is up to him. It is whatever he wishes far as I understand. JaeReed?

[MathBlade]

Whoops mod corrected my understanding/a sentence. Technically still have ownership. So I just try again.

[MathBlade]

Whoops mod corrected my understanding/a sentence. Technically still have ownership. So I just try again.

O.o

So the ring is still yours?

So...what exactly does the post restriction accomplish? Meh. Don't bother answering, I don't think I need to know.

-Cerb

Well I am answering so everyone understands because it was confusing the way it was worded.

As of right now it is a paperweight. If I ever finish the post restriction then I end up being able to do something similar to what JaeReed did.

It is always best to be transparent.

I keep coming this close to having a town read on you and then you mess it up by doing things like asking me not to answer a question that you open with?

So yes everyone needs to know because then everyone can understand what I am doing and why. Or do you not want people to be able to read me? FOS RR again.

[MathBlade]

koggz think it would be funny to have post restriction where player can only speak in palindromes
would be a bit too evil and restrictive though

While I found that completely hilarious I plan on thinking things through and seeing what I could do to help out and definitely try to avoid a post restriction. Honestly I want to keep it in town's hands as long as possible. i have a couple ideas but I want to make sure they aren't from flu induced haze and are smart before voicing them.

[MathBlade]

Whoops mod corrected my understanding/a sentence. Technically still have ownership. So I just try again.

O.o

So the ring is still yours?

So...what exactly does the post restriction accomplish? Meh. Don't bother answering, I don't think I need to know.

-Cerb

Well I am answering so everyone understands because it was confusing the way it was worded.

As of right now it is a paperweight. If I ever finish the post restriction then I end up being able to do something similar to what JaeReed did.

It is always best to be transparent.

I keep coming this close to having a town read on you and then you mess it up by doing things like asking me not to answer a question that you open with?

So yes everyone needs to know because then everyone can understand what I am doing and why. Or do you not want people to be able to read me? FOS RR again.

My assumption was that if you had possession of it, then successfully completing it would allow you to *use* it, and I assumed it had some usage beyond just being passed around. Thus, I asked the question, then realized I didn't actually want you to tell me what it did.

-Cerb

Why not? I mean it is open and available for everyone to see. I don't plan on hiding anything except my role through very obvious use of pants. Like I really don't understand you or how this is coming from town.

[MathBlade]

Town mindset* fuck my phone.

[MathBlade]

Both Detective Moonlight and karnos confirmed that. Randomidget is also in that PT, but he did not say anything about it.

McMeno's smarter than that (Only just, but still smarter).
I don't buy it.

Yep, you're the 3rd Scum.

And you know three because? It is the most logical but two and one seems a little weak. But multiball seems weird too. Like Lonestar+Aztechnology. Until we answer that question not sure we should guess three scum.

[MathBlade]

I'm a little wary that Menno might want to be in jail with Space Cowboy for some reason. Perhaps to permanently kill the slot? Something about this is sending up thousands of alarm bells in my head. Looking at it logically he is the only person we should be lynching today, I think. If he is trolling to that extent as town then we can't let it live to lylo, and there's a non zero chance that he truly scumslipped then tried to cover for himself.

VOTE: McMenno

L2

Townreading Koggz btw.
I have things confirmed but I'm on the verge of swapping my picks due to paranoia.

What did you think of my big theory wall?

[MathBlade]

So here is the thing. Without breaking the rules I can't quote directly what he said in the matrix, but I can say what he said is started to look incredibly weird.

So he posts something along the lines of: 'oh no I slipped, give me advice to dodge the wagon' and then he calls out space cowboy by name.

And then her makes another post claiming the previous post was accidentally posted in the wrong pt.


So, not just scummy, he would have to be really bad scum or perhaps scum pissed off at his teammates, or throwing the game to post anything like that. I don't know the player, maybe someone who has played with him before can speak about whether or not he is likely to make such a grave error and not just slip himself, but also call out a scum buddy.

TBH, it sounds like a fool's tactic. Is there any chance that the game could include a role that has a win condition based on being sent to prison on day 1? Or, maybe I am just reading too much into it, maybe the first slip was real and this is just some lame misdirect slip.

I dunno. If there is some town incentive behind such a gambit I don't see it.

Well, I am in no PT right now. Not matrix, not astral, and certainly not a scum PT. He is definitely trying to frame me, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop falling for it.

He's a scumfuck who is trying to frame us.

VOTE: Mcmenno

That you aren't in the Astral or Matrix PT's makes this look slightly worse for you. It implies that it was a true slip, which makes you both scum. Nobody would try such a weird "frame-job" that also implicates themselves as scum; especially not in some strange way like this. I think it is what it looks like: you both are scum.

I'm still quite a bit behind, so maybe some of this will be covered as I read.

I can't really see the frame job here. As soon as McMenno slipped he was caught and made no efforts to fix it. Then killing Space Cowboy makes no sense for scum v scum. Then two scum in prison. This means at most 1 or 2 more scum against rest of town. Not sure I buy scum being that risky. See my read wall for more.

I think you are likely scum for trying to avoid the question of who is more likely scum: McMenno or Space Cowboy and what should be done about it if anything. I really don't like this at all. If anything McMenno's posts reek of desperation and it is trying to figure out McMenno to find out why. But he isn't talking right now.

Pedit: reading your wall now.

[MathBlade]

Between that and the hella weird interactions between McMenno and Worldzmine Worldzmine would be my top pick.

Now in a McMenno town world there would likely be scum trying to capitalize on McMenno's trolling. If McMenno town then Space Cowboy likely scum which makes it harder to capitalize which means if too much eagerness some flags start going up. In this world, Karnos who seems to be replicating what I taught him as scum or lurker Yume are helping to contribute to this and Worldzmine and McMenno are wtf with each other.

Him unvoting me midstream of my catch-up posts where it was clear I had no clue about the more recent events involving him and Space Cowboy, and saying he now had to rethink things is what caused me to respond the same.

I immediately thought if he's scum attempting to mislynch me being that I've been scumread a bit, why abandon it there? Scum doesn't immediately and unilaterally abandon a mislynch just because of something like this. (By "this" I mean it being rather evident that I'm not in some scum chat by having no clue of rather major events in game yet, while catching up)

It made me instantly realize, that *he* also may not be scum, and had possibly truthfully scum read me till he saw that.

After his rethink post, when I said I needed to also rethink a bit because his reaction implies things, I meant pretty much all these points and also the ones you just posted although none of it was as crystallized in my own mind to the degree you have shown in your post.

Anyway's all this means I agree with the scenario's you've laid out except for the world where I could be scum obviously.

Re-read my series of posts before our "weird interaction" again and you'll see I almost derp town-cleared myself there. He noticed that, then I noticed that he noticed it and my first thought was "Immediately unvoting me for this would be a weird reaction for scum" as I stated above. I swear I'm not trying to wifom btw, it's just that the truth to the "weird interaction" was a few layers deep from my side of it.

Okay...Let's assume for a minute you are town and agree with my scenarios.

Which of McMenno/Space Cowboy is town and why in your own words? And what should we do about it?

I am rereadibg your posts but I really don't like the sudden shift and the trying not to WiFoM. It feels really defensive. Like you are trying to hide from me asking questions. Also not sure why you dropped the third person either as that is your thing?

[MathBlade]

I'm a little wary that Menno might want to be in jail with Space Cowboy for some reason. Perhaps to permanently kill the slot? Something about this is sending up thousands of alarm bells in my head. Looking at it logically he is the only person we should be lynching today, I think. If he is trolling to that extent as town then we can't let it live to lylo, and there's a non zero chance that he truly scumslipped then tried to cover for himself.

VOTE: McMenno

L2

Townreading Koggz btw.
I have things confirmed but I'm on the verge of swapping my picks due to paranoia.

What did you think of my big theory wall?

Um, honestly? The moment you said that vig should be shooting someone they scumread who wouldn't get lynched I had something to say about it and stopped reading to type out a theory disagreement to you before deciding against it. We can talk theory after the game.

I will say, I don't believe being a dayvig makes him any alignment. What I do believe is it's plausible for a dayvig who looks like they might be going to jail to decide to use their ability before they lose the opportunity to do so. In that case, using it on the person that you're a counterwagon to isn't necessarily a bad idea, imo. If the person is town then we were essentially spared the mislynch. That said, we don't get the flips, and I can also see scum motivation behind that.

Put the "should we break one of them out" talk on hold til D2 I think, when we'll have more information.

Townreading Klingon.

Well right now the prison holds two people. Those two people are likely Space Cowboy and McMenno. If I am wrong then I need to be adjusted as that is why I spilled my thoughts. What do you think about them both?

[MathBlade]

Between that and the hella weird interactions between McMenno and Worldzmine Worldzmine would be my top pick.

Now in a McMenno town world there would likely be scum trying to capitalize on McMenno's trolling. If McMenno town then Space Cowboy likely scum which makes it harder to capitalize which means if too much eagerness some flags start going up. In this world, Karnos who seems to be replicating what I taught him as scum or lurker Yume are helping to contribute to this and Worldzmine and McMenno are wtf with each other.

Him unvoting me midstream of my catch-up posts where it was clear I had no clue about the more recent events involving him and Space Cowboy, and saying he now had to rethink things is what caused me to respond the same.

I immediately thought if he's scum attempting to mislynch me being that I've been scumread a bit, why abandon it there? Scum doesn't immediately and unilaterally abandon a mislynch just because of something like this. (By "this" I mean it being rather evident that I'm not in some scum chat by having no clue of rather major events in game yet, while catching up)

It made me instantly realize, that *he* also may not be scum, and had possibly truthfully scum read me till he saw that.

After his rethink post, when I said I needed to also rethink a bit because his reaction implies things, I meant pretty much all these points and also the ones you just posted although none of it was as crystallized in my own mind to the degree you have shown in your post.

Anyway's all this means I agree with the scenario's you've laid out except for the world where I could be scum obviously.

Re-read my series of posts before our "weird interaction" again and you'll see I almost derp town-cleared myself there. He noticed that, then I noticed that he noticed it and my first thought was "Immediately unvoting me for this would be a weird reaction for scum" as I stated above. I swear I'm not trying to wifom btw, it's just that the truth to the "weird interaction" was a few layers deep from my side of it.

Okay...Let's assume for a minute you are town and agree with my scenarios.

Which of McMenno/Space Cowboy is town and why in your own words? And what should we do about it?

I am rereadibg your posts but I really don't like the sudden shift and the trying not to WiFoM. It feels really defensive. Like you are trying to hide from me asking questions. Also not sure why you dropped the third person either as that is your thing?

Not sure who, I still think we should lynch McMenno for the slips regardless without a full explanation that makes sense.

What third-person?

Derp never mind I misread a sentence in my notes. Still rereading and honestly will probably take overnight to sort you as McMenno is probably getting lynched today.

[MathBlade]

I will admit that I faked the slip... partly for the lulz and partly to see space cowboy's reaction, their wagon seemed very likely to derail

I felt their reaction was very bad so I shot them

admit that it was a mistake to fake some "slips" but it's better if I get lynched day 1 instead of in lylo so you can catch the real scum later

see y'all in prison

oh and I feel like worldzmine is town probably

Which is it? You faked one or some "slips"? Explain. And keep in mind to be transparent I don't believe you. But I am not doing my due diligence if I don't ask.

[MathBlade]

Agreed. Furthered by the fact I asked them to be transparent and they aren't doing anything of the sort towards a reads list except if he is right or wrong makes him trolling highly unlikely.

Furthermore trolling with a dayvig is hella risky. It feels like he is caught scum trying to say what we want to hear instead of what is really the truth. I could see trolling with a role that is not powerful but a dayvig? He could have just taken the shot and claimed ownership afterward or maybe not even claimed it at all. Like what makes you think he could be town?

Let's assume for case and point McMenno and Space Cowboy both town. Then we get into a world where we have 3-4 scum and 14 players alive and not in prison. This means either 11 town v 3 scum or 10 town versus 4 scum right now pre kill. Assuming one town kill tonight:

10 town v 3 scum or 9 town v 4 scum either is a recipe for disaster.

Hence why we need to figure out what we are doing.

[MathBlade]

in mcmenno space cowboy both scum scenario
sending partner to jail may not make sense on surface
but perhaps deeper look can make some sense of things
here is one possible explanation

mcmenno realizes both mcmenno and spacecowboy are caught because of slip
in desperation caught scum more likely to go for hail mary type strategy
so in desperation mcmenno gets trolly to add confusion which is proper scum play after scum slip

without any mechanic to return from jail then killing partner makes zero sense
however prison break mechanic and no flip at lynch changes everything
it gives caughtscum a longshot but at least possible out

exactly because it seems unlikely on the surface to dayvig his partner
town may decide mcmenno and space cowboy cant share alignment
at which point town could attempt to rescue 1 of them
then because of belief they cant share alignment when the jailed scum does flip scum the rescued scum could be wrongfully cleared to coast into win

so the motive behind vig partner would be a desperate attempt to clear a caughtscum

Unlikely. If we can't figure out who is town before any potential opportunities then we leave them both in jail to die. There is no reason we have to break anyone out we just have to decide as a group what is most likely and then if the opportunity arises we act on whatever the group has determined.

I figure we have three options
1) Break out Space Cowboy -- I think McMenno is scum so likely he tried to take a town on the way down.
2) Do nothing. Let the flips sort things out. -- Possible idea but that doesn't sit right with me.
3) Break out McMenno -- I hate this option. If we choose this we should just not lynch him today.


Those are in order of priority asked IMHO.

Pedit: @ABR --
Lynched players wind up in prison, rather than killed outright. A maximum of two players may return from the game after being imprisoned. Lynched players do not flip until no one can be released from prison anymore. There may or may not be mechanics that allow people to communicate with those in prison. When no one can escape or be released from prison anymore, all players in prison will flip and will die. All flips are confirmed accurate (no actresses/tricksters, death millers, godfathers, etc).

I feel like I have copied this before...oh wait....

[MathBlade]

Agreed. Furthered by the fact I asked them to be transparent and they aren't doing anything of the sort towards a reads list except if he is right or wrong makes him trolling highly unlikely.

Furthermore trolling with a dayvig is hella risky. It feels like he is caught scum trying to say what we want to hear instead of what is really the truth. I could see trolling with a role that is not powerful but a dayvig? He could have just taken the shot and claimed ownership afterward or maybe not even claimed it at all. Like what makes you think he could be town?

Let's assume for case and point McMenno and Space Cowboy both town. Then we get into a world where we have 3-4 scum and 14 players alive and not in prison. This means either 11 town v 3 scum or 10 town versus 4 scum right now pre kill. Assuming one town kill tonight:

10 town v 3 scum or 9 town v 4 scum either is a recipe for disaster.

Hence why we need to figure out what we are doing.

The thing that makes me think he could be town is that I didn't have a solid read on him before all this went down. If someone is going to troll then it doesn't matter what role they have, they're just gonna troll.

If they're both town, who would be the scum in that scenario?

I would look at Vedith for starters with the confirmed scum comment. I would also look at those who pushed McMenno right after the vig flip. I was offline but still dropped my vote in the AM but I would look at the most vocal McMenno pusher at the start as scum because if McMenno is town they would know he was trolling and want to eliminate that mind set. Whoever suggested trolling first would also require a harder look at as well.

Pedit: McMenno's gotta be scum. Still not giving reads or any detailed thoughts. If McMenno is town I am going to be severely disappointed.

Pedit 2: what is newton's flaming laser sword?

Pedit 3: GMTA JaeReed
Pedit4: OMG would like to post sometime tonight.

[MathBlade]

Okay then when will you be at a computer...A natural thought would be "hey phone posting be on in blank hours" or something. So when will you be at a PC?

[MathBlade]

At work The Great and Powerful Trixie will read later.

Of note the Great and Powerful Trixie received a gun. The Great and Powerful Trixie needs time to read the responses today to see what the Great and Powerful Trixie should do. Please do not quick hammer until The Great and Powerful Trixie is ready.

[MathBlade]

The great and powerful Trixie wishes that we lynch the obvious scum flailing.

Karnos says more obvious scum. Means that karnos himself is a part of the scums.

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to note that Karnos is at L-2.
The Great and Powerful Trixie does not yet vote confirmed scum in order to have a discussion of a few things.

About the jail plan, The great and powerful trixie sees some benefit in it to stop scum from escaping but the great and powerful trixie is concerned that if we put people the town townreads in jail then they may not make it out. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks it should be the decision of the person of whom we send to jail. The great and powerful trixie wishes to think a bit more on the way to the great and powerful trixie's stable (home).

The Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to ISO Karnos as well but that will take more time and the great and powerful trixie must use their legs (car) to get to their stable (home).

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

Also who are possible scum partners of the evil Karnos? The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks maybe Scout, Worldzmine, or to a lesser extent Koggz.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

Two deaths means possibility of multiball or serial killer. I think Koggz is right in that we have to play this cautiously. The cop might have been on opposite faction or something (not sure if this fits flavor-wise).
As far as the jail plan, we don't know for sure that town can break anyone else out, let alone two people, so it's best to tread carefully there.

Is it a coincidence that Grovyle is dead?

Night action kills would have been sent by scum before my supposed guilt was announced,

so it's not like scum!karnos could have chosen to kill Grovyle after realize JaeReed's cop on me

.

Can we talk about this? It's sus considering there were two kills. Is that an admission to his scum team killing Grovyle (pre-planned defense?), or is it more likely they killed Drixx?

Not voting til party leader is ready to end the day.

@The Great and Powerful Trixie the thing you thought was a pants drop last night actually wasn't - there was no relation. I was told the thing related to it wasn't used, either. I hope that's not too cryptic.

The Great and Powerful Trixie understands what you say and nods. However while untrue it may be the reason Grovyle was killed. Do you understand why The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks this? Or do you think the Great and Powerful Trixie is on track or off track?

The Great and Powerful Trixie will consider multiball overnight. The Great and Powerful Trixie sees that point.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie does not believe there could be an SK because of flavor and Lonestar or Aztechnology.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie finds your attempts at comedy hilarious and would hammer now if not for wanting to continue to scumhunt first. The Great and Powerful Trixie looks forward to seeing humor as a power on your role card.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie finds your attempts at comedy hilarious and would hammer now if not for wanting to continue to scumhunt first. The Great and Powerful Trixie looks forward to seeing humor as a power on your role card.

Are you JaeReed's scum partner?

The Great and Powerful Trixie sneezed Sprite through the Great and Powerful Trixie's nose at this suggestion.

Let's assume for case and point that Karnos was town.
Karnos would claim.
Karnos would give reads.

Karnos did none of those things so Karnos bleeds.

The Great and Powerful Trixie has the power of rhyme. Conf scum get lynched by the Great and Powerful Trixie every time.

[MathBlade]

....The Great and Powerful Trixie lovingly questions what JaeReed has been smoking and if they will share.

Translation:

The Great and Powerful Trixie Bucks their legs upwards and neighs loudly begging for an explanation of why vigging Karnos is a good idea.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is curious as to if confirmed scum Karnos is telling the truth though. The Great and Powerful Trixie supposes Koggz could confirm? The Great and Powerful Trixie says it couldn't hurt to keep hearing the story.

[MathBlade]

And Karnos is back to comedy.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is going to sleep and is offline most of Saturday and around half of Sunday. The Great and Powerful Trixie will do what they can.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

possible multiball
having 2 nightkills and the whole lonestar and aztechnology thing both seem to point to the possibility

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks multiball possible however thinks based on people's play and mechanics single ball more likely. As mentioned before The Great and Powerful Trixie will consider multiball overnight.

strong town lean on jaereed
would say the cop on karnos confirms as town but not quite because koggz suspect we may be playing multiball

did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

Again. In the Great and Powerful Trixie's humble opinion this is single ball but will consider multiball overnight.

The Great and Powerful Trixie Bucks their legs upwards and neighs loudly begging for an explanation of why vigging Karnos is a good idea.

what is your objection to vigging karnos?
koggz can see no town motive to choose lynch over vig the cop guilty considering things like escape and no flip on lynch
the only motive koggz can see to not want karnos dead rather than in jail is if you do not want karnos flip shown for some reason

Based on the flips this seems to be role madness. Scum could have a blocker or redirector or doctor or .... (this is a Titus game Lord knows what Titus would come up with) which lets him live. The only way to guarantee his death is to lynch him. Besides when no more players could escape prison Karnos will flip anyway. If we didn't lynch scumreads/firms on the fear of not receiving a flip, if single ball scum they will control this game quickly. If it is multiball scum then The Great and Powerful Trixie would think that each scum team would not know if the other scum team would be gone yet. The prison would be as much a hindrance as a help. The Great and Powerful Trixie would think this make things insane for scum in role madness. Making things harder for scum is what The Great and Powerful Trixie does.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is curious as to if confirmed scum Karnos is telling the truth though. The Great and Powerful Trixie supposes Koggz could confirm? The Great and Powerful Trixie says it couldn't hurt to keep hearing the story.

confirm what?

If Karnos was lying earlier about what people are supposedly saying in prison chat. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks Karnos could be making it up to try to survive.

[MathBlade]

@everyone
if only 1 of spacecowboy and mcmenno is scum
who do you think is more likely to be the town?

Almost certainly Space Cowboy. JaeReed came up with that conclusion last night that if Karnos was scum then Space Cowboy was likely town based on 436. A thought The Great and Powerful Trixie concurs with.

If we discount that and go down the rabbit hole of what ifs.....

Spoiler: The Great and Powerful Trixie Rambles

If single ball....
Given Karnos scum, Space Cowboy likely town. Karnos say they have access to PTs and after McMenno's slip probably concoct plan to make Space Cowboy seem scummy. If anything this makes it seem to me McMenno genuinely slipped and in a panic came up with a reason to remove Space Cowboy. Makes it much more likely since at that point McMenno was caught anyway and didn't instantly say that they were trolling supports this belief.

If multiball....

If Space Cowboy and Karnos were scum together the beginning of day 1 simply doesn't happen like that IMHO in multiball and same team. So let's consider Space Cowboy scum on a separate team than Karnos. Then explain why Karnos D1 as a member of a multiball scum team would proclaim access to multiple PTs when asked. McMenno asked and Karnos answered. Not seeing that happen in a McMenno Karnos multiball team. Given that it would be likely McMenno and Karnos not aligned in that case The Great and Powerful Trixie doesn't see him not immediately screaming Space Cowboy is obviously town in that case or at least pushing it for town cred. Instead he laser hawks on McMenno.

Given that The Great and Powerful Trixie taught Karnos the scum meta The Great and Powerful Trixie would use and noticed some similarities at the start of the game to that and Karnos as scum if anything he would immediately distance himself from that to avoid further FoS after The Great and Powerful Trixie brought it up. However after the McMenno slip he probably couldn't backpedal. This is another point that means if single ball McMenno likely scum with Karnos and then bussed because he had to not because he wanted to.

The only thing that gives me pause is Vedith instantly saying Space Cowboy is confirmed scum afterwards. The Great and Powerful Trixie is having a really hard time understanding where that comes from. If anything if the Great and Powerful Trixie could break someone out of jail (who is already there) it would be Space Cowboy.

[MathBlade]

Lets talk about the missions tonight

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks missions are incredibly important.
The Great and Powerful Trixie wonders what Scout will do with the missions.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks they should be town blocks as much as the Great and Powerful Trixie usually hates them. In this case the Great and Powerful Trixie thinks they work well.

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks that this is the reason for one of the rules in the original post.

If the group given is a town block then the rewards will almost certainly benefit town. Especially since it looks like the Party Leader makes the final decision so The Great and Powerful Trixie says it is likely the Lieutenant chooses the other reward. D&D correct me if The Great and Powerful Trixie is wrong.

Who would you put on a mission ABR?

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie must drive now but the Great and Powerful Trixie wishes to hear more about what people think. The Great and Powerful Trixie will not be back until very late tonight if at all as they must spend 2 hours driving to their destination and 2 hours back assuming scum cars don't get in the way.

[MathBlade]

Warning: The Great and Powerful Trixie is catching up while inebriated.

[MathBlade]

The Great and Powerful Trixie is becoming suspicious of koggz though. Why would a scum player cop their buddy? This does not compute for the Great and Powerful Trixie. Why would JaeReed only be a lean?

possible multiball
having 2 nightkills and the whole lonestar and aztechnology thing both seem to point to the possibility

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks multiball possible however thinks based on people's play and mechanics single ball more likely. As mentioned before The Great and Powerful Trixie will consider multiball overnight.

strong town lean on jaereed
would say the cop on karnos confirms as town but not quite because koggz suspect we may be playing multiball

did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

Again. In the Great and Powerful Trixie's humble opinion this is single ball but will consider multiball overnight.

you avoided koggz question did you read "would say the cop on karnos confirms as town" and then not read what koggz say immediately after?

you say you think we are in singleball for unexplained reasons
fine
but this not explain why you asked "Why would a scum player cop their buddy?"
when koggz reasoning is right there in the same sentence
and has nothing to do with a scum player cop their buddy

The Great and Powerful Trixie does not understand your point. Your point seemed to be JaeReed confirmed town unless multiball. Great and Powerful Trixie says they will consider multiball but doesn't think it is the case. There is direct relation: If single ball JaeReed cop buddy. If not they might have. The Great and Powerful Trixie fails to understand here. The point was addressed by the italics?

Because the Great and Poweful Trixie was making the point JaeReed is conf!Town to the Great and Powerful Trixie. JaeReed and the Great and Powerful Trixie had long discussions about who the cop check would be on. To assume anything less means that JaeReed would have copped a buddy. Even if this is multiball JaeReed is conf town to the Great and Powerful Trixie. There were things on the mission you'd have to have seen.

This pony bucks at the idea of JaeReed being anything but town.

[MathBlade]

what is your objection to vigging karnos?

Based on the flips this seems to be role madness. Scum could have a blocker or redirector or doctor or .... (this is a Titus game Lord knows what Titus would come up with) which lets him live. The only way to guarantee his death is to lynch him. Besides when no more players could escape prison Karnos will flip anyway. If we didn't lynch scumreads/firms on the fear of not receiving a flip, if single ball scum they will control this game quickly. If it is multiball scum then The Great and Powerful Trixie would think that each scum team would not know if the other scum team would be gone yet. The prison would be as much a hindrance as a help. The Great and Powerful Trixie would think this make things insane for scum in role madness. Making things harder for scum is what The Great and Powerful Trixie does.

so much bad vibe from this post and you lately its like you want koggz to scumread you

so you objections are that he might not die if vigged and because the other scum team will know who he is???
VOTE: mathblade
if he does not die from vig then lynch
he is a cop guilty you think the other scum team can not see the cop guilty?

any other objections to vigging karnos?

If Karnos was lying earlier about what people are supposedly saying in prison chat. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks Karnos could be making it up to try to survive.

koggz can not see prison chat without being locked up

The great and powerful Trixie says one of those two objections is what the great and powerful Trixie said.

1) Scum could do something to fuck with my kill. They could make it do weird bad awful things. Lynching scum is a sure thing and Karnos would flip anyway.

Prison doesn't deny a flip it delays it. Anyone breaking Karnos out would be a scum claim.

Side note: Technically the Great and Powerful Trixie could have hammered unless math is off because drunk.
While The Great and Powerful Trixie things the smart thing is to lynch Karnos if popular opinion is to have me vig Karnos the great and powerful Trixie will do so. Thinking something stupid and explaining why is not scummy. The Great and Powerful Trixie prefers one in the hand.

The latter point is about thread dominance. If we let scum guilties off for vigilantes and they make it alive to the next morning then after more deaths thread control happens and the scum still plant suggestions. The point was about townie votes for single ball. For multiball there is no guarantee that if it exists the numbers are the same. Because the other hypothetical scum team couldn't see the flip they do not know what they were dealing with in power scum to assess the other hypothetical team. Therefore it provides more benefit to town in a multiball or single ball to lynch. That was the Great and Powerful Trixie's suggestion.

[MathBlade]

....The Great and Powerful Trixie lovingly questions what JaeReed has been smoking and if they will share.

Translation:

The Great and Powerful Trixie Bucks their legs upwards and neighs loudly begging for an explanation of why vigging Karnos is a good idea.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is curious as to if confirmed scum Karnos is telling the truth though. The Great and Powerful Trixie supposes Koggz could confirm? The Great and Powerful Trixie says it couldn't hurt to keep hearing the story.

Humor me. If scum had the power to view the mission topic, do you think it's a stretch to assume that they would have realized I was going to choose karnos? Especially with how concerned I was in helping you get your reads sorted and the fact that we both found his play off due to meta reasons.

My main concern about this is I've seen Nacho talk his way out of a guilty before. But Nacho was fairly calm in the game where he was guiltied. I don't believe his first reaction was an emotional "no fuck you the guy who copped me is scum" but rather he was trying to work with that person to figure out where things could have gone wrong with their result. Karnos is eager to be vigged which could indicate a scum bodyguard or bulletproof or something if he's scum, or if town it could indicate that something fucked with the result (meaning either one of us is scum as he suggests, or someone could read the mission thread and knew what was going to happen).

It would be nice to have an actual flip from karnos to know for sure.

Would a flip be awesome? The Great and Powerful Trixie believes so. It is more about risk and whether it is worth it. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks it is always dumb to not lynch conf!scum.

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks if scum could see the topic doesn't think that is a stretch no. It could be another reason for the Grovyle kill since Grovyle townread Karnos. However as KlingonCelt said the Great and Powerful Trixie doesn't see a framer on a public cop.

Bodyguard bulletproof redirector a Titus shenanigans could be a ton of shit. If you are so concerned about him talking his way out why not lynch him here today? The Great and Powerful Trixie is confused. They blame the Blue Moon.

[MathBlade]

We have the ability to permanently lock one mission from being run going forward. ABR's suggestion was to lock the mission that would break people from jail, his reasoning being that the sooner we block all ways we can break people out, the sooner we're able to see flips. (Honestly, I think the fastest way to do that is to break two people out of jail as soon as possible.) We still haven't chosen a mission to lock, so Cakes asked for thoughts on how best to utilize the reward. I don't think anyone has responded.

-Daenerys

I'm not nuts about the idea of breaking people out, I'd hate to have to lynch Scum twice.

ABR is very likely Town.

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks of we can keep scum in and extract just town it is worth it. If scum get out the Great and Powerful Trixie agrees that is bad but if we get out likely town and leave scum behind we add to the amount of votes we have.

[MathBlade]

Oh and Great and Powerful Trixie thinks both KlingonCelt and ABR town.

The Great and powerful Trixie is going to sleep now

[MathBlade]

Fuck mod just told The Great and Powerful Trixie they failed again. The great and powerful Trixie thought only I and We

No. "I me my myself and Mine" all count. God fucking damn it this post restriction is hard.

[MathBlade]

If the Great and Powerful Trixie lives to tomorrow they will try again

[MathBlade]

Does Random have any opinion at all about the recent posts?

The Pronoun confused MathBlade doesn't like your lack of content.

[MathBlade]

@SooperDetective I'm trying ...Trust me it's really hard. I dare you to try it.
-- Drixx was scumreading you and mentioned so yesterday. Drixx and Grovyle both died. Both suspected you. It makes sense for you and Karnos to be scum. Especially if Karnos could see the mission PTs and could see what was coming down the pipeline. Drixx tried to gain steam for scout in the PT and JaeReed also mentioned suspicion of you in the mission as well. I was waffling but after Drixx and such died you are probably scum.

@WorldzMine -- Any reason you're content on lurking? I'm interacting with the people that are posting. If you interact with the thread I interact with you. Simple concept. What's your thoughts so far here?

[MathBlade]

....The Great and Powerful Trixie lovingly questions what JaeReed has been smoking and if they will share.

Translation:

The Great and Powerful Trixie Bucks their legs upwards and neighs loudly begging for an explanation of why vigging Karnos is a good idea.

The Great and Powerful Trixie is curious as to if confirmed scum Karnos is telling the truth though. The Great and Powerful Trixie supposes Koggz could confirm? The Great and Powerful Trixie says it couldn't hurt to keep hearing the story.

Humor me. If scum had the power to view the mission topic, do you think it's a stretch to assume that they would have realized I was going to choose karnos? Especially with how concerned I was in helping you get your reads sorted and the fact that we both found his play off due to meta reasons.

My main concern about this is I've seen Nacho talk his way out of a guilty before. But Nacho was fairly calm in the game where he was guiltied. I don't believe his first reaction was an emotional "no fuck you the guy who copped me is scum" but rather he was trying to work with that person to figure out where things could have gone wrong with their result. Karnos is eager to be vigged which could indicate a scum bodyguard or bulletproof or something if he's scum, or if town it could indicate that something fucked with the result (meaning either one of us is scum as he suggests, or someone could read the mission thread and knew what was going to happen).

It would be nice to have an actual flip from karnos to know for sure.

Would a flip be awesome? The Great and Powerful Trixie believes so. It is more about risk and whether it is worth it. The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks it is always dumb to not lynch conf!scum.

The Great and Powerful Trixie thinks if scum could see the topic doesn't think that is a stretch no. It could be another reason for the Grovyle kill since Grovyle townread Karnos. However as KlingonCelt said the Great and Powerful Trixie doesn't see a framer on a public cop.

Bodyguard bulletproof redirector a Titus shenanigans could be a ton of shit. If you are so concerned about him talking his way out why not lynch him here today? The Great and Powerful Trixie is confused. They blame the Blue Moon.

Last sentence, Math.

I know it's generally the correct play to always lynch a guilty but karnos doesn't look like caught scum. A flip would make me feel a lot less paranoid about the whole thing.

I'm also wondering if I shouldn't just do the thing I did last night in this thread and go ahead with that. Thoughts?

Alrighty. Will vig Karnos. I still think that lynching is better but will vig Karnos if it comes to that.

About that thing: I suppose we could. You start so people understand. I think after Karnos dies it would be nice to see what if anything Karnos told the truth on.

[MathBlade]

1) Scum could do something to fuck with my kill. They could make it do weird bad awful things. Lynching scum is a sure thing and Karnos would flip anyway.

Why is it you think it's likely that scum could do something with your kill, but you don't think it's even worth talking about the idea that scum could have a framer or maybe some sort of target-swap role or something else silly when it came to the investigation?

Why would I flip if lynched? Wouldn't I go to prison exactly like the last lynch, and not flip? Hell, if you can show me why I will immediately flip upon lynch, I'll vote myself right now just to see the scum get burned on the implications. But if you are just trying to imply that I will *eventually* flip, several game days from now, then that is exactly what I'd expect from scum.

(responding to a comment in prison thread)
McMenno: I'm not going to self-hammer, because I would much rather get flipped so my alignment is revealed.

At the least then, the town among {MathBlade:JaeReed} will know the other is scum.

I'm going to make a more extensive post tomorrow, don't have a lot of free time today.

Your flip came before NAR...So powers of scum irrelevant. You are conf scum.

And we are both town. There is no way IMHO JaeReed is scum.

[MathBlade]

town needs information
karnos vig gives more information than karnos lynch
if scum interfere with vig this also gives information and we can lynch after
we cant stop seeking information for town just because scum will also be informed

now that math not drunkposting
care to try again to explain how you got from koggz saying think jareed town and would be confirmed if not for multiball
to you inserting the weird copping the buddy thing?

on a side not koggz was wrong about the confirmed town if not for multiball thing anyways
at the time koggz had not considered framer nor the fact that cop target was not decided by jaereed alone
koggz still think jaereed town regardless just not confirmed

Asked and answered? Not sure why you are asking again?

[MathBlade]

@WorldzMine -- Any reason you're content on lurking? I'm interacting with the people that are posting. If you interact with the thread I interact with you. Simple concept. What's your thoughts so far here?

I posted quite a bit before EoD 1 that's contents should of been pretty AI as well as having some okay content. I've also posted quite a few times today that has mostly been ignored because it seems people have locked in reads and stuff without considering that they are wrong.

What do you think about what Karnos is saying?

[MathBlade]

Fuck mod just told The Great and Powerful Trixie

they

failed again. The great and powerful Trixie thought only I and We

No. "I me my myself and Mine" all count. God fucking damn it this post restriction is hard.

What about "they?"

Will ask later tonight. At friends so quick posting.

[MathBlade]

Based on ABR's posts do you wish to go or not on super secret plan of awesome JaeReed?

[MathBlade]

Nah im not reading mathblades posts until she drops the stupid PR.

It turned out to be way harder than seemed at first glance. I'm dropping it for the rest of the day.

[MathBlade]

[quote="In post 1074, MathBlade"
What do you think about what Karnos is saying?

Mostly I don't. I think what he's saying is maybe possible but that he should be lynched anyways because of the cop result.[/quote]

You don't think? I asked what you think about what he is saying. More so than whether he is survivalistic which he is being but about his posts or anyone's posts. Some kind of anything.

[MathBlade]

Fuck mod just told The Great and Powerful Trixie

they

failed again. The great and powerful Trixie thought only I and We

No. "I me my myself and Mine" all count. God fucking damn it this post restriction is hard.

What about "they?"

If I use it to refer to myself and/or myself and others yes. Otherwise no.

[MathBlade]

What secret plan?

The thing we came up with in the first mission neighborhood.

[MathBlade]

Ok i think i kinda know what to do

Ill do arson, together with peregrinev and vedith (their stats are great)
Doubting about vedith here cuz i have him as a more null read

Abr, jae and math seem the towniest to me and abr requested something. I think ill let you go on demolitions

If this is ok, ill submit and we can move on

Pretty sure if we are vigging Karnos there is no "moving on" we gotta lynch a different scum.

[MathBlade]

You don't think? I asked what you think about what he is saying. More so than whether he is survivalistic which he is being but about his posts or anyone's posts. Some kind of anything.

I'm saying I haven't considered it past the first reading because there's no reason to based on the cop result. I also think vigging him instead is a dumb idea because the vig could be rb'd, etc.

Boo bad. Always read claimed scum's posts. Then you can try to see what they leak about scum.

[MathBlade]

Personally, my take is SC could still be scum, McMeeno seems pretty towny. I don't disagree with his point regarding his ability- if he was scum, why the fuck would he claim the kill he was making? he could have just taken the kill and stayed anonymous. Even better question: why would scum dayvig someone who is already largely read as scum, and potentially easily miss-lynched? Wouldn't scum go for a kill on a more obvtown player?

Talk about your day1 posting. What made it so awesome that a scum framer picked you to frame on night1?

...Talk about day one and night one.
The cop check was submitted during the missions part. JaeReed set a trigger on it for one minute before night.

So the question becomes what was so special about Karnos's posting it requires a day framer. And if they had it why would they not use is on a universal town read?

For a day framer to work they'd have to have eyes in the mission thread. Which in that case scum would be flipping out about the super secret plan of awesome. Since they aren't Karnos is scum no framer:

[MathBlade]

Why are you saying it was hard to achieve the cop result? Team size of 3 was the minimum possible, so it would seem to be the EASIEST mission, not the hardest. Also, MathBlade was apparently awarded a vig kill, and who knows what else might have been awarded to other players? Maybe the pub investigation was intended to be weak, because it was so easily to win it as an award and it could have been really strong if there was no scum among the mission team.

Second of all, I don't mind being killed. My flip will vindicate me and either jae or math will get lynched after, I'm okay with that trade, but I'm not going to willingly get sent to prison where I do not flip and my framer can get away.

I was not awarded anything from the mission. It was in my day open feedback.

[MathBlade]

Math cant go with jae again. Pick you, me, jae on one run.

Noted. Although I find it odd that you specifically ask for jaereed.

Talk about your day1 posting. What made it so awesome that a scum framer picked you to frame on night1?

Why would any of it matter?

I'm sure scum had an inside man in the mission, unless there could be a scum role that allows them to read mission chat.

At some point they saw that I was the planned target for the public investigation power, so they sent in their night action to frame me. It's the most obvious course of action.

No the most fucking obvious course of action is that you are scum trying to talk your way out of stuff.

Seriously though, why is everyone so off focus? Lynch this guy, protect mathblade and let him save the vig for later game, to fix a possible mylo scenario or something more useful i dunno. Why waste a shot and possibly mislych because nobody has a decent clue? Hell, this guy is confscum, you can keep him alive and hope for associative tells to happen. Occam's razor: why would the mod make a cop result, that is not easy to achieve, incorrect? It makes no fucking sense.

No. Everyone is right we need a flip. It is safer to lynch and just keep him in there but after careful thought we really need a flip. It is riskier yes but a flip is needed.

[MathBlade]

So the question becomes what was so special about Karnos's posting it requires a day framer.

Holy shit Math you're right. Karnos investigate would have resolved before any night actions. I am fucking dumb.

Nah just stole some of my left over Blue Moon XD

[MathBlade]

So the question becomes what was so special about Karnos's posting it requires a day framer.

Holy shit Math you're right. Karnos investigate would have resolved before any night actions. I am fucking dumb.

I'm not following the logic.

The order of events:

1. Night begins. Actions sent.

2. Missions.

3. Mission results/rewards.

4. Mission reward result.

5. Night ends.

So you are saying that actions submit in step 1 can't possibly effect results revealed in step 4?

I submit, as evidence to the contrary:

ABR any specific reason you want to be with jaereed?

We are both widely townread and were on different successful missions last night, so we are able to be on the same mission tonight.

Btw, our mission was sabotaged by scum last night, they made the rolls more difficult, but we still managed to succeed.

UNVOTE:

Who is vigging who?

&

We were informed in the pt that scum sabotaged the run, making it harder.

Unless ABR is lying scum, that should put the nail in the coffin for this crazy theory that night scum actions couldn't possibly effect the mission reward results. We already know that night scum actions sabotaged the mission itself, which occurred BEFORE the reward results.

Night actions can be changed up til deadline.

The trigger was 1 minute before deadline.

Therefore no night actions could change it only day ones.

[MathBlade]

I dont care if mathblade is not selected for a mission. Shes not a townread.

And ABR also drinks the Blue Moon. Everyone is getting drunk lol.

[MathBlade]

SC was vigged, why did he go to jail as a result instead of flipping? This won't also happen with a karnos vig? What am I missing/not understanding here?

The night kills happening at night are flipping. My guess is since it was a day vig it would act like a lynch?

[MathBlade]

I dont care if mathblade is not selected for a mission. Shes not a townread.

And ABR also drinks the Blue Moon. Everyone is getting drunk lol.

You think that its unreasonable for any player to not have you as a townread?

No. I don't. I think you have played with me enough that either a) you are derping and drinking Blue Moon or B) You're scum. I don't think you are scum so the most likely option is you are derping. So I think it is reasonable for someone who doesn't know me to not townread me yet. However you I think should have a strong indication I am town.

[MathBlade]

So the question becomes what was so special about Karnos's posting it requires a day framer.

Holy shit Math you're right. Karnos investigate would have resolved before any night actions. I am fucking dumb.

I'm not following the logic.

The order of events:

1. Night begins. Actions sent.

2. Missions.

3. Mission results/rewards.

4. Mission reward result.

5. Night ends.

So you are saying that actions submit in step 1 can't possibly effect results revealed in step 4?

I submit, as evidence to the contrary:

ABR any specific reason you want to be with jaereed?

We are both widely townread and were on different successful missions last night, so we are able to be on the same mission tonight.

Btw, our mission was sabotaged by scum last night, they made the rolls more difficult, but we still managed to succeed.

UNVOTE:

Who is vigging who?

&

We were informed in the pt that scum sabotaged the run, making it harder.

Unless ABR is lying scum, that should put the nail in the coffin for this crazy theory that night scum actions couldn't possibly effect the mission reward results. We already know that night scum actions sabotaged the mission itself, which occurred BEFORE the reward results.

That's not evidence. We knew that scum could affect the rolls on a mission, and I highly doubt that's a night action thing. That only means that it's more likely there was scum in {Random, D&D, ABR} sabotaging the mission from the inside. Which makes the chances of Random being scum increase for me because I put him in there A) because he said he wanted to be in a run since he had access to another PT as well, B) for D&D and ABR to get a read on him because he had been pretty null for me, and C) to get the stats well rounded enough to give the team a decent chance. Though there's a chance that I'm off on my townread instead (which Random if town should be looking into but he said he townread both of them).

If that

was

an action it could have been submitted during D1 in a manner like "sabotage the second mission" so I still don't see the point there. Someone framing you during D1 would have to be smoking something pretty strong.

We didn't narrow things down definitively until quite late in the night in any case, there were only a few hours left, then I put you on a timer to be copped, with the choices being between Worldz and you. I forgot that it would have resolved before any night actions did. Like, what you are arguing is literally that me or Math are scum. But Math didn't know for sure that I would follow through on their preference or just flip a coin or what. It was very heavily implied that I wanted to help my townreads get their reads sorted, but Worldz was also stated as a decent check, and with grovyle townreading you I could very easily have gone for Worldz instead.

I'm townreading Math, and I know I'm not scum. So the only option for me that involves you being town was that someone could read the mission thread and mess with the result through night actions. Which I'd forgotten would be impossible because you flipped during the night. I really doubt we have a day framer. A night one I coulda bought. Like, even Math couldn't have known for certain that I chose you iirc, just heavily suspected. So that means you're levelling the accusation of being scum solely on me, and I ALSO have to have a framing ability that works whenever I activate it (or my supposed scum team would have to). I can't see it.

Oh btw, while I'm thinking about Math and Karnos, Koggz you said you couldn't see town motivation for wanting a lynch over vig. While that might be true for a lot of people what you need to think about is whether it's an opinion town

MathBlade

would have. Because I did a double take too before I realized that to Math, the cop result is as good as a flip (unsure whether this is still the case, but at the time this was the conclusion I came to). You need to take into account personality. For Math, I don't believe that was a scummy thing to push.

QFT

[MathBlade]

I dont care if mathblade is not selected for a mission. Shes not a townread.

And ABR also drinks the Blue Moon. Everyone is getting drunk lol.

You think that its unreasonable for any player to not have you as a townread?

No. I don't. I think you have played with me enough that either a) you are derping and drinking Blue Moon or B) You're scum. I don't think you are scum so the most likely option is you are derping. So I think it is reasonable for someone who doesn't know me to not townread me yet. However you I think should have a strong indication I am town.

Are you factoring in what grovyle and I said last night? That could be the reason?

I don't follow the question?

[MathBlade]

Ooooohhhh *light bulb comes on* Right. Derp.

[MathBlade]

To answer your question yes that is possible. But I don't think it is the most likely.

[MathBlade]

No. I don't. I think you have played with me enough that either a) you are derping and drinking Blue Moon or B) You're scum. I don't think you are scum so the most likely option is you are derping. So I think it is reasonable for someone who doesn't know me to not townread me yet. However you I think should have a strong indication I am town.

if you are scum in a game should someone who knows you be able to tell you are scum?

If I am scum in a game yeah. If I was scum and someone I knew didn't pick up on it they would be derping yes. Derp is a thing. When I first played forum Mafia I got lynched for the stupidest little things as town that people didn't expect. By opening myself up more and being transparent mislynches happen a lot less.

[MathBlade]

There are a few exceptions who scum read me because I exist but most of the time people read me right if they poke enough.

[MathBlade]

Date night tonight will catch up afterward if it isn't too late.

[MathBlade]

No objections to Math lieutenant. Why do you townread PV? I have trouble reading low content posters. At best he's nulltownish, more on the side of null for me.

I kinda want to go ahead with lynching Karnos but I have reason to not want to be on the run. I'm just gonna full claim this shit. I'm drunk so it seems like a good idea and it stops us from turning in circles trying to figure shit out. I'm one of the two people who can escape from prison. So I either have to be vigged or lynched in order to get us 50% of the way to our condition for flips. I full claimed that last night in thread but the only person who survived was Math. We were gonna try to work it in a way that VCA would be useful too but see: Math only remaining living player I claimed to. I figured we'd lynch me today or tomorrow, but karnos came back guilty as well. So, up to town whether we're lynching me today and holding off on the karnos vig.

Basically my thought process is: I can confirm what karnos is saying about the prison chat, I can check in with Menno and SC on what their opinions/reads are and try to get my own read on them based on what's in prison chat, and I can get their opinion on who to break out if town ends up with that option.

That would require me breaking out during the night phase so scum doesn't just nightkill me to deny information (probably after 24 hours of nightstart), and koggz setting up a PT between me and someone Koggz thinks is town while at the same time I send a night message to someone I think is town. My thoughts on this are: If scum have a roleblocker or something to stop me from sending the night message, they can't also stop koggz setting up the PT, so there'll be a backup if I die. I'll tell both people a secret code to confirm them. (Also any town protective role could be on me if they so desire, scum might have strongman or more importantly, watcher, so use your own judgement or a coin flip or something if you wish)

So: do we lynch me and hold off on karnos either vig or lynch, or lynch karnos, or lynch someone else and vig karnos?

Quick addition with that plan btw: both Cerb and fb were hesitant about lynching a townread on purpose. I think this plan is fine though? As it is I'm useful to scum kept alive because we're not getting flips in part because of me. Once I'm dead or used my escape then I'm useless to them, and a threat since I have seen inside the prison chat.

Sorry Math <3 I drop my pants a lot. I wanted to make this a game of trust like I usually do with neighbourhoods but the rest of my "masonry" died so I figured it was better to just be open with everyone.

....OMG just why ...

Pants are an incredible thing and now you are streaking down the thread. *sigh*

As I said in the mission, it is your risk so IMHO up to you.

[MathBlade]

I am vigging Karnos FYI if not lynched today. There is no holding off on Karnos vig business if he isn't lynched. Karnos will die.

[MathBlade]

Okay, that is useful. We know grovyle and drixx were town. Either you or mathblade are scum. Thinking about it, it doesn't matter who suggested my name, it would have been obvious to frame the cop target regardless of who it was.

This makes no sense
If its a Framer that messed with you like you've been pushing, then "math or Jae must be scum" doesn't fit at all
You're just scum flailing

How do you not get what I am saying?

Scum framed me BECAUSE I was going to be copped. If scum knew I was going to be copped, someone in the mission told them. of the 4 players in the mission, 2 died and flipped town. QED one of the remaining two players, Jaereed or MathBlade, are scum. Possibly both.

Unless you honestly believe scum would have some sort of spy ability to view the mission PT without being on the mission, the only other possibility is a scum JaeReed or a scum MathBlade.

Also, in the interest of transparency, the bounty on WorldzMine is indeed a real bounty.

There is a reward, if he is lynched, for the fifth player on the wagon to vote for him. Doublevoting the following day or 1X bulletproof. So there is another reason to vig kill me, if you must, so that you can actually lynch WorldzMine later and collect the bounty. As far as I read my role, it doesn't matter if I am already dead, the reward should still occur.

I'll have moe time to post tomorrow, and I can go over more details of my role and various happenings in prison chat, if there is interest.

This looks like scum trying to create interest in a last ditch mislynch
Which is lol

Does it? So do you think MathBlade is probably scum then? I picked Worldz based on MathBlade's scum read on him, and PoE knowing his other scum reads are town, except Koggz, but I have a strong feeling koggz is town, so defaulted to worldz.

Read the day opening. There was an accusation on wordz written out by the mod. Nobody has counterclaimed my accuser role. Does it make sense for you that a bounty hunter would be able to set a bounty on someone (accusation) and there wouldn't be any actual bounty to collect (the reward)?

I don't really care if worldz is lynched or not, but if he is lynched I want the bounty going to town, rather than scum. I want to lynch MathBlade or Jaereed today, and hopefully I'll get it after I am vigged and flip town.

I'm fine with vigging karnos. He can get out of jail if we lynch him.

The only problem I have with this is possible night bullshit like redirectors and scum docs being possible.

-dragons

This is unbelievable. The idea of a false guilty is something you call BS on, when it's a well known mechanic used in games and listed in the wiki, but when it comes to being killed outright you don't trust the idea because you think I'm going to magically reflect the kill onto someone else?

Do you really think my role is an accuser, + bulletproof ninja, + kill redirector, +read prison/astral/matrix, +scum nightkiller, +scum chat? Doesn't that seem like a bit much?

Honestly if we aren't lynching Karnos and if we don't go through with now pants dropped plan of semi awesome because no pants then I am strongly considering whether or not Karnos was wifom ing.

Based on being outed one minute before the night end either A) Karnos picks a townie or B) intentionally wifom'd the shit out of us and knew what was coming and picks a scum buddy.

Karnos already admitted to being able to read both the matrix and astral PTs. What if he could read the mission one too and his entire argument of scum being able to read the mission PTs feels true. Just if he is that reader.

Also Karnos is being ridiculous.
1) D&D is arguing your scum buddies would help you.
I do think you can read the mission PTs and that scum probably have a factional kill.
However as for any of the other powers that since this is a Titus game can be anything it is much safer to lynch you.

However I think since JaeReed is pants less it is best to do what they'd like.

[MathBlade]

That's not evidence. We knew that scum could affect the rolls on a mission, and I highly doubt that's a night action thing.

Okay, you are turning this into an argument of semantics. Obviously scum had to submit some communication to sabotage the mission, and the mission occured at night. Thus it was a night action, in my words. In the same way, my theory is that scum shared the info that I was going to be copped in scum PT, and some scum framer framed me. Call it a day action if you want, it occurred at night and had effects at night so I would call it a night action.

We didn't narrow things down definitively until quite late in the night in any case, there were only a few hours left, then I put you on a timer to be copped, with the choices being between Worldz and you. I forgot that it would have resolved before any night actions did. Like, what you are arguing is literally that me or Math are scum. But Math didn't know for sure that I would follow through on their preference or just flip a coin or what. It was very heavily implied that I wanted to help my townreads get their reads sorted, but Worldz was also stated as a decent check, and with grovyle townreading you I could very easily have gone for Worldz instead.

So you are a scum framer, you can frame anyone you want, and your scum buddy is telling you there is a good chance karnos is going to be copped. Please explain how you would logically choose to frame anyone else other than karnos in that situation.

If you have knowledge that player X is going to be investigated, you would absolutely frame that player if you are trying to win, no question.

It was literally impossible IMHO to frame you.
You are just stalling here.

It can't be a day action because it wasn't day anymore.
It can't be a night action because it was before night actions were due.

You be scum please die.

[MathBlade]

SC was vigged, why did he go to jail as a result instead of flipping? This won't also happen with a karnos vig? What am I missing/not understanding here?

MathBlade said they had a GUN. A gun kills, it doesn't send to jail, so that is the assumption I am working from.

Maybe MathBlade can clarify on how exactly the ability is worded.

Got told I got a gun and I can use it at night. That is it.

[MathBlade]

Basically my thought process is: I can confirm what karnos is saying about the prison chat, I can check in with Menno and SC on what their opinions/reads are and try to get my own read on them based on what's in prison chat, and I can get their opinion on who to break out if town ends up with that option.

That would require me breaking out during the night phase so scum doesn't just nightkill me to deny information (probably after 24 hours of nightstart), and koggz setting up a PT between me and someone Koggz thinks is town while at the same time I send a night message to someone I think is town. My thoughts on this are: If scum have a roleblocker or something to stop me from sending the night message, they can't also stop koggz setting up the PT, so there'll be a backup if I die. I'll tell both people a secret code to confirm them. (Also any town protective role could be on me if they so desire, scum might have strongman or more importantly, watcher, so use your own judgement or a coin flip or something if you wish)

So: do we lynch me and hold off on karnos either vig or lynch, or lynch karnos, or lynch someone else and vig karnos?

Quick addition with that plan btw: both Cerb and fb were hesitant about lynching a townread on purpose. I think this plan is fine though? As it is I'm useful to scum kept alive because we're not getting flips in part because of me. Once I'm dead or used my escape then I'm useless to them, and a threat since I have seen inside the prison chat.

By my knowledge, there is a 50% chance you are scum, so that makes me nervous about accepting this plan at face value. Who is to say you will be honest about what was said in prison chat?

Is this some last ditch effort to stop me from getting vigged and flipping town, revealing the investigation for the sham it is?

@MathBlade

, you can take the shot. I don't want scum getting away like this.

... This coming from confirmed scum whether a townread would be honest about what is in prison chat. Lol you are scum firm XD Why would I take anything you say at face value?

Gee conf!scum giving me permission to kill them. *rolls eyes* I would do it with or without your blessing anyway. And why the hell would you after screaming I or JaeReed are scum then go "you can take the shot" to me. This implies you know I am town and your scumread of me is a load of shit.

[MathBlade]

"I put you on a timer to be copped."

Not a scumslip if they specifically set the trigger for a minute before night. And both Mathblade and Jaereed said this, so if one scumslipped about deadlines then the other did too. Also it makes no sense for the scum deadline to be different.

-Daenerys

Lol Karnos is just flail city looking for someone to try to mislynch. He treats me as town to shoot him then hunts for scum slips. Quite honestly I think his posts are just distracting at this point and we need to focus on the matter at hand:

Do we lynch Karnos?
Do we lynch JaeReed and try the plan?
Do we lynch someone else?

[MathBlade]

So: do we lynch me and hold off on karnos either vig or lynch, or lynch karnos, or lynch someone else and vig karnos?

I'd rather a Karnos lynch, but not if it won't flip him.

The whole vig thing is kind of dumb because night actions are subject to shenanigans.

I have said this earlier.
However confirmed scum living to another day is not something I want. So if we don't lynch Karnos I am killing Karnos. Lynched players go to prison so that means no flip.

[MathBlade]

I townread PV
Vedith for his stats
But i think ill take out vedith and put koggz on the mission

That gives me-jae-abr and math-koggz-PV
Math is lieutenant.
Any objections?

Yes, I'm being left out for no reason when my across the board stats are good. Leaving me off the missions is town playing bad.

Odd you didn't say town playing bad or scum picking a bad mission. Leads me to believe one of two things:
1) You know who town is and genuinely think that because of your stats town would pick you.
2) You are town but think stats are more important than townreads on missions...Wait a minute who said that...Or right confirmed scum.

[MathBlade]

Math is probs town. I wouldn't be surprised if karnos was distancing space cowboy. Vedith could be scum

If Karnos is distancing anyone it would be McMenno not Space Cowboy. What makes you say Space Cowboy?

Null on Vedith lurk city.

[MathBlade]

Date night tonight will catch up afterward if it isn't too late.

Hope you had fun!

Thank you! It was!

[MathBlade]

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. I kind of want to lynch karnos. There's no longer any doubt in my mind about whether the cop investigation could have been messed with. It couldn't have been. I do not believe an instant framer exists in this game. That said, we still need to get my lynch & escape out of the way to get our flips.

I am one of the two people who can escape. A prison break I think will only allow one person to escape. There's a 50% chance I die in a prison break but if I am still alive after one I can still use my ability to escape. My role says nothing about being able to escape during the break if I live, on the contrary, it suggests I'd still be in prison even if I survived the prison break. I can't remember who it was that suggested that more than one person would be able to escape during the break but that's my answer to that.

Please stop arguing with scum. They will not say they are confirmed scum. All it does is clutter the thread and since they are confirmed scum gains no benefit. If you are analyzing what they say and figure "Player X" must be scum or town because of it that is one thing. However confirmed scum has incentive to continue to spew bullshit in the thread and hope to god you buy it. Correcting then only provides an avenue for more bullshit.

About lynching Karnos or vigging I see the merits in both:
1) If we lynch Karnos no one would be dumb enough to release him as it is a scum claim.
2) If we vig him it is risky but then we can learn more about what scum can do and use that to make a more informed hypothesis about single ball or multiball.

What looks like is happening here is you are so pissed at Karnos that you just wanted him lynched so he would quit talking. I have explained how Karnos couldn't have been framed yet it is after a big long argument you are convinced. If after stepping away from the thread you still feel lynch is the optimal play I will gladly give Karnos a vote smack down.

[MathBlade]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

I've had a look at your ISO and I get a bit of a wishy-washy feeling. There's some hedging there, and now you're pushing to go on a mission because of your stats. I think it's pretty much agreed to choose mission-runners according to townreads and then look at stats to try and pick appropriate missions. That's what I think anyway. If you want to go on a mission, or if you think you can help town by going on a mission because your stats are good, then you can try a bit harder to help town in the game in order to be townread and taken on missions.

About your point above - ignorance is not an impossible thing to fake, especially as we're talking about over a short period of time. Added to that that you're now pointing it out explicitly, makes me more suspicious of that point and less likely to take it as valid.

-Froot

Lol well whatever floats your boat. I'd like to know *why* you and others are scum reading me, and have asked that question in a post that I got no response to. I was trying to help town with a mission but it's whatever, you all can just do your thing I guess, even though I know many people are on the wrong path when it comes to myself.

It is reasons like this post chain here I suspect you. You say no reasons are presented. Yet you interact with the reasons I provide and call them bad. Ergo you may not like the reasons but they do exist. To paint them as nonexistent is blatantly false for me and I think a majority of the high post posters.

If you think someone has an unjustified read of someone you should be saying "Hey Math why the hell are you townreading Player X?" Then I would answer why I am if I am. However empty posts like this do nothing to further the game and exist only to appear townie IMHO.

[MathBlade]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

The series of posts you made is easy to fake and not a "townslip" by any means (plus, uninformed could just mean you deliberately didn't read scumchat first). Then you keep trying to push your own posts as townslips when they're not, which is different than if someone else pointed it out and was townreading you for that reason and then pushed it. But you're the one pushing it to be confirming you as town so I'm less inclined to believe it. And it's getting pretty annoying when that's all you can talk about.

-Daenerys

I listed the reasons why it's not fake in a post earlier. I'm "pushing it" because it proves that I'm town. There's nothing else to say on the matter. I think you all *want* me to be scum for reasons that aren't clear to me, but it's whatever. This game is ridiculous imo.

No. It absolutely doesn't.

In my scum and town games alike I post about having no clue. Having "no clue" is a great tool for scum to disconnect from their prior reads and go hop onto something that isn't justified by their prior posts. Trying to townfirm yourself over hunting scum especially in a game where scum seem to be in trouble (more on this in a minute) is to me a scum tell.

[MathBlade]

1) You know who town is and genuinely think that because of your stats town would pick you.

2) You are town but think stats are more important than townreads on missions

...Wait a minute who said that...Or right confirmed scum.

I think reasons should be listed on why you think I or anyone for that matter is scum or town. You can't just randomly decide someone is a certain alignment with no reasons. Which has been done repeatedly in this thread. Not listing reasons for a read is just bad play imo. Because it shows nothing. For all I know you could be scum picking names out of the air.

Again. See prior post. If you think I am making up reads then ask me why I think the way I do. Then I explain and we have a dialogue. The only thing I can really do to a blanket post like this is one of three things:

1) Invite dialogue and see why you think the way you do.
2) Post a long wall which I have learned no one usually reads and is empty space.
3) Refute the point and move on.

I am choosing a mix of 1 and 3. What are you choosing to do?

[MathBlade]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

When you make a "town slip" and then you point it out yourself, it doesn't actually make you look towny.

I wasn't the one who pointed it out though, McMenno was. When he saw it he immediately unvoted me and said he had to re-think about the game. I also think that implies that Menno is actually town himself.

With Karnos's confirmed scum McMenno town makes little sense to me.
In fact it looks like you are trying to revive multiple arguments used by confirmed (Karnos) or likely (McMenno) scum.

Look at how little Karnos talks about McMenno. Karnos controlled the entire thread for a little bit. When scum do this it is always interesting to see what they talk about as it is likely alignment indicative. This also makes me think while Karnos is confirmed scum he is likely telling the truth about prison chat because as I hypothesized before one of McMenno or Space Cowboy is likely scum and Karnos's play makes me think it is McMenno.

[MathBlade]

You're not reading. THE MOD'S TIME ZONE IS DIFFERENT TO THE FORUM'S TIME ZONE. I SPECIFIED MOD'S TIME ZONE.

You were unkillable when you were publically copped... "This player that is publicly copped cannot be killed that night." So yes, scum would absolutely want to change their kill if they were targeting you because they would be denied the kill. That's if you were town, which you're not.

The post from the mod, 987 shows it was 1 minute before the deadline. The PTs were locked even though the flips didn't come later because it was late and the mod needed sleep before going through NAR.

This is really pissing me off. I'm not sure if you are legitimately mistaken, or just fucking trolling me, but (for the last time) I checked once again. This time, I changed my time zone to pacific time, MATCHING THE MOD TIME ZONE.

976 STILL shows deadline as 12:50AM

978 with your cop reward, STILL occurs after that, at 12:59AM

You are still wrong, and your constant failure to understand this most basic aspect of time makes me really wonder why anyone should believe you about the specifics behind your public cop ability, you could certainly be describing it wrong as well, even if you aren't scum intentionally misleading us.

I'm not going to waste any further time on this particular line of discussion. I know how time works, apparently you don't. The time-stamps on the posts trumps your argument, and you aren't going to be able to change them no matter how hard you try.

Mod gets time to type.
Moving on.

[MathBlade]

@Worldz if you want to be townread then do something towards solving the game instead of pushing how you should be on runs due to stats or how you "townslipped" (you didn't). Analyze, give stances, do something is isn't centered around you wanting to be on a freaking run, man.

No. Absolutely not, why should I have to do a bunch of bullshit that no one else had to do/did not do, to be a part of the fucking game. I'm on the edge of telling you all to go fuck yourselves with you shitty reads and bullshit cliques that have formed for no fucking reason.

Except we are. This just looks like empty posturing rather than posting a read.

[MathBlade]

I am thinking Karnos/McMenno/Worldzmine are all scum together. I don't really see another team of comparable size in a 17 player game. This would be 3v3v11 or 2v2v13 or 4v4v9. SK doesn't make sense based on flavor. The last two options mean this game would be horribly unbalanced so those are likely out. So if multiball it would have to be 3v3v11.

Now with two town deaths on n1 this would be 3v3v9. With one likely scum in prison and another outed I would be expecting more division if this was multiball. Instead I think it is single ball and scum are flailing.

[MathBlade]

They picked to publically cop a player.

Karnos is confirmed to be aligned with Aztechnology or Lonestar and not the Shadowrunners.

Night continues for 1 more minute. Adventure PTs will be locked then.

I'll be resolving all night actions after I get some sleep.

(my italics underlined)

@karnos - do you think SM posted this when he'd actually resolved a scum night-frame? That's impossible to me. So I think a night-frame is impossible and an insta-frame is super unlikely, so you're scum. Just clarifying this because I don't foresee responding to any of your other points in the game.

No. Absolutely not, why should I have to do a bunch of bullshit that no one else had to do/did not do, to be a part of the fucking game. I'm on the edge of telling you all to go fuck yourselves with you shitty reads and bullshit cliques that have formed for no fucking reason.

I really don't know how to explain this response. Has someone called you scum? Are you angry that you're not being strongly townread? I just replaced into the game and I read your ISO and told you what I think. You quoted my post and commented that you want to know why people are scum reading you. I didn't say anything about scum reading you and I gave a response to your ISO which you didn't respond to. Is this overreaction a response to me calling you wishy-washy?

I am one of the two people who can escape. A prison break I think will only allow one person to escape. There's a 50% chance I die in a prison break but if I am still alive after one I can still use my ability to escape. My role says nothing about being able to escape during the break if I live, on the contrary, it suggests I'd still be in prison even if I survived the prison break. I can't remember who it was that suggested that more than one person would be able to escape during the break but that's my answer to that.

Thanks for that. I'm taking it then that your ability and a prison break are two different things, so there isn't a 50% chance that you'll die if you use your ability? Or is that what we'd be trying to circumvent using the threads etc?

-Froot

QFT except the last little bit to JaeReed. I think it is an ability separate from prison break but JaeReed can explain better I think. I don't think he dies if he uses his ability. That would be lame and no one would use it lol. Would be more likely that he dies if the event occurs.

I like the Froot part of the hydra. Scout still gives me heebie jeebies.

[MathBlade]

Don't get me started on that ring JaeReed.

That is quite possibly one of the hardest post restrictions I have ever seen. Thank God that was loud or my posting would have made no sense at all. If I ever pass this restriction I am going to make a much simpler something. Still no idea what.

[MathBlade]

Ta, Math, for the emotional help there. I got dragged into an argument that was shitting up the thread so yeah. Taking a step back to look at other stuff.

I don't think Worldz is a partner for Karnos due to Karnos placing a bounty on him. If I were scum with the ability to place bounties I'd be looking at who is mislynchable not on my team, especially as we don't get flips yet. If we had flips guaranteed I could understand a hard bus like that since neither of them were in particularly good standing, but as it is he'd have nothing to gain from sending his buddy to jail.

So if singleball I think it's likely that Worldz is town, based off Karnos' action in placing a bounty on him.

You're assuming though that Karnos didn't know what was coming. If he did that was probably WiFoM to make that exact argument.

Karnos and I did the same in 1800. Why would a scum Neopolitan townfirm someone? It doesn't make sense. The answer is it does if Karnos knew what was coming. I think because of that Karnos bountying Worldz is NAI.

[MathBlade]

I am hypothesizing that Karnos could actually read the mission thread we had.

[MathBlade]

Oh wait never mind that is stupid else they would have freaked about plan of awesome never mind :/ blah.

[MathBlade]

Ta, Math, for the emotional help there. I got dragged into an argument that was shitting up the thread so yeah. Taking a step back to look at other stuff.

I don't think Worldz is a partner for Karnos due to Karnos placing a bounty on him. If I were scum with the ability to place bounties I'd be looking at who is mislynchable not on my team, especially as we don't get flips yet. If we had flips guaranteed I could understand a hard bus like that since neither of them were in particularly good standing, but as it is he'd have nothing to gain from sending his buddy to jail.

So if singleball I think it's likely that Worldz is town, based off Karnos' action in placing a bounty on him.

Now that you have had time to chill would you like to lynch or vig Karnos? If the latter do we lynch you today? Oh and what does TA stand for?

[MathBlade]

Going to bed now people. Sweet dreams. Would love it if low content posters would do something.

[MathBlade]

On the bright side, Yume's posting... So there's a positive.

@D&D It was this. It's very heavily implied there, especially after I mentioned to FB last night that I found it weird that Yume was posting since I played with Yume twice now, and she has been replaced as both alignments due to inactivity (once on the fallout shelter in Fractals, and once in yuri mafia on here. Once as scum, once as town). FB said that it was a towntell for Yume, so that put this post in a "well Yume's town" light for me. I can't see the scum motivation for Vedith to post this.

Worth noting that FB said it was weird that Vedith didn't gun for him. If you want me to paraphrase everything in the mission PT I can do so but tbh I'd

really

prefer not to bc I'm lazy as fuck. But I will if asked, for anyone who isn't confscum.

Okay. Isn't the fact that Grovyle was town and also noticed it enough to cancel out Vedith's towniness from doing this, though?

-Daenerys

Honestly I think that what is going on is scumplosion just a matter of figuring out where. I got called into work early will read rest of thread later.

[MathBlade]

I think one of ABR/KlingonCelt is scum and the other is derp town.

I find it very suspicious that they are trying to lynch the player that could vig Karnos if we don't lynch Karnos. I also find it suspicious they do so without arguments. Both of them know I am utter shit under pressure. I ask anyone scumreading me to post reasons why. I have done nothing but be forthright and honest.

Suspicion of me is okay. In fact I welcome the scrutiny. But until we figure out what we are doing with Karnos lynching the player with the gun is a bad idea. Even if I didn't have a gun it would still be downright horrible. So bring on your reasons. But if all you have is a desire to vote me without being able to articulate why you might want to check your role PM. It probably says scum or scum puppet on it.

Back to the matter at hand: what are we doing with Karnos?

[MathBlade]

YOU HAVE CONFIRMATION THAT TOWN PLAYERS THOUGHT MATHBLADE WAS SCUM AND WERE VOTING TO LYNCH HER. SCUM ARE NOT PUSHING MATHBLADE. TOWN IS.

AND OF COURSE DEAD TOWN ALWAYS HAVE CORRECT READS BECAUSE TOWN IS THE INFORMED MAJORITY. /sarcasm

CAPS LOCK BEING STUCK ON YOUR KEYBOARD IS NOT A CASE.

Even confirmed scum votes for me. This is bullshit.
You realize for me to be scum I would have to suggest to Karnos that I cop a buddy while I was already making an argument that one of McMenno/Space Cowboy is in jail?

I have no problems with lynching or vigging Karnos. What I do have a problem with is you declaring you are high and mighty and then when you are inevitably proven wrong not actually changing a damn thing about explaining and convincing others. All you are doing is spam.

Look at Majiffy. He did the same thing to me in a recent game. No case and just kept repeating it to mislynch town. My enjoyment in that game soured to a new low because I couldn't interact with "You're scum". For the interest of those not as "enlightened" as you, please share with the class why you think the way you do.

[MathBlade]

OK here's how it will be. My vote stays on mathblade for the rest of the game until she dies. Point blank period.

VOTE: PeregrineV

This is why you have such credibility issues.

And why you come across as scummy.

Furthermore it is blatantly inconsistent. Why would you vote a person I am scumreading if you truly thought I am scum? What world does this make sense in ABR?

Fuck this. Going to work. Will check later tonight and VLA for weekend.

[MathBlade]

Serial killer.

Straws are just outside your reach ABR. Keep trying. You might just realize how insane you are. At work gtg now.

[MathBlade]

V/LA Til Tuesday for a Labor Day Holiday

[MathBlade]

Again this is pure bullshit. I am being wagoned so Karnos lives. It is why there is no case.

Definitely can get behind a Worldz lynch. Worldz or Klingon. ABR is just salty over Gistou.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Worldzmine

[MathBlade]

I feel that all the mathblade votes are protest votes because some players are being quite self-absorbed and difficult to interact with without losing patience.

You mean yourself?
I asked a thousand times for a case and I never got any word apart from 'hes scum.'

Worldz is town. You bet your ass he's town. Just like koggz. All the town are voting Mathblade.

So in your eyes PV and random and math are scum and worldz is town? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Do you scumread menno?


-S

Math is 80% to 90% scum and I'm 100%... so not so stupid. I've asked 5 million times but not one person will answer. What are the reasons why anyone thinks I'm scum? List them; preferably in a short bullet point way.

Already answered in my ISO. Will quote when I have more time.

At a friend's birthday party. Push on me has no reasons. I can't explain what has no reasons. Worldzmine/Random/Klingon two of the three are scum with McMenno. I highly doubt McMenno is town based on Karnos's D1.

Will check again on Tuesday.

[MathBlade]

Got a brief moment to sneak on but not enough to read this. VLA til Tursday night.

[MathBlade]

Tuesday*

[MathBlade]

here

Yume needs poking too. :/

TBH the prod dodge like that is shit.

Yume needs to post something resembling content or be replaced.

[MathBlade]

I left cause I don't want to get killed. It's in the rules in the OP.

....

Explain how you read the first post yet are still hypothesizing I am the SK?

YOU ARE ALIGNED WITH THE TOWN FACTION (SHADOWRUNNERS) OR YOU ARE ALIGNED WITH AZTECHNOLOGY/LONESTAR (SCUM)

That is in the first post.
IMHO that is mod confirmation that there is no SK.

The fact you have read it and had multiple times to correct your bullshit theory makes me think that you are scum.

There is no way ABR is this dumb.

VOTE: ABR

[MathBlade]

Scum FB is more careful of how he speaks

.

Like exact word for words what said as scum.
And Shiro was 100% making it up.

Somehow I bought it.

~Fire

VOTE: Vote Grovyle

I just don't like his tone so far combined with the attempted mod meta read earlier.

This is weird...I don't like this vote from Worldzmine. You made a point of showing how that push wasn't scum oriented but Worldz votes Grovyle without touching/interacting with your post. It's probably this that makes Grovyle likely town.

FYI Worldz you were asking for reasons. Here's one.

[MathBlade]

@Worldz if you want to be townread then do something towards solving the game instead of pushing how you should be on runs due to stats or how you "townslipped" (you didn't). Analyze, give stances, do something is isn't centered around you wanting to be on a freaking run, man.

No. Absolutely not, why should I have to do a bunch of bullshit that no one else had to do/did not do, to be a part of the fucking game. I'm on the edge of telling you all to go fuck yourselves with you shitty reads and bullshit cliques that have formed for no fucking reason.

Except we are. This just looks like empty posturing rather than posting a read.

And another.

[MathBlade]

Look at my posts near the end of D1. I had *no clue* what was going on and was answering interesting post in real time. My thoughts continually changed as I got more caught up and the progression of my thoughts were plainly laid out. If I was scum I wouldn't of did that because I would of obviously caught up with all the game changing things that happened in the scum thread before posting.

It shows clearly that I'm uniformed and that points to one alignment and one alignment only--

town

.

I've had a look at your ISO and I get a bit of a wishy-washy feeling. There's some hedging there, and now you're pushing to go on a mission because of your stats. I think it's pretty much agreed to choose mission-runners according to townreads and then look at stats to try and pick appropriate missions. That's what I think anyway. If you want to go on a mission, or if you think you can help town by going on a mission because your stats are good, then you can try a bit harder to help town in the game in order to be townread and taken on missions.

About your point above - ignorance is not an impossible thing to fake, especially as we're talking about over a short period of time. Added to that that you're now pointing it out explicitly, makes me more suspicious of that point and less likely to take it as valid.

-Froot

Lol well whatever floats your boat. I'd like to know *why* you and others are scum reading me, and have asked that question in a post that I got no response to. I was trying to help town with a mission but it's whatever, you all can just do your thing I guess, even though I know many people are on the wrong path when it comes to myself.

It is reasons like this post chain here I suspect you. You say no reasons are presented. Yet you interact with the reasons I provide and call them bad. Ergo you may not like the reasons but they do exist. To paint them as nonexistent is blatantly false for me and I think a majority of the high post posters.

If you think someone has an unjustified read of someone you should be saying "Hey Math why the hell are you townreading Player X?" Then I would answer why I am if I am. However empty posts like this do nothing to further the game and exist only to appear townie IMHO.

And yet another.

When I point out there are no reasons for scum reading me from ABR that is 100% accurate. I dare you to provide that justification. Oh wait you can't can you?

Both ABR and Worldzmine need rope today. Tis a shame only one can be lynched.

[MathBlade]

Drixx my biggest townread.

Okay.

Significance?

What are your reasons?

Somehow ABR's letter wound up in my mailbox.

There's nothing much in it, the usual "Ohai, I haz Townz I thinks u haz townz 2" stuff.
If ABR were Scum, he wouldn't send a letter to someone he was going to kill.

What makes you think he would kill you? And if you weren't the intended recipient then how did you get it? The first post says that shouldn't happen. So let's assume ABR sent this to you. Then it would make more sense to do so from a buddying or info leak perspective. I agree he wouldn't send it to someone he was going to kill but I definitely do not think this makes ABR town. ABR is a strategic player. I don't see him doing just spam as either alignment. But especially town.

I know what I use my message for each night and it sure isn't spam.

[MathBlade]

To kill immediately*

[MathBlade]

Mathblade are you 100% convinced karnos is scum yet? Will you 100% shoot karnos tonight or be lynched tomorrow?

As I have said a billion (sarcastic) times yes.

[MathBlade]

I am not sure how you see ABR as town when they are suggesting that an SK exists when the OP set up posts say town or scum. There were two colors green or red. Ergo single ball. I bring this up and ABR doesn't interact with it at all. ABR's slot might as well be replaced with an RNG robot that declared a slot is scum and repeats it.

However I also find it completely weird what KlingonCelt is doing. It looks like blatant message/rolefishing. It seems really odd and scary that ABR said the message went to Drixx but KlingonCelt claimed to have received a copy when redirection is impossible.

VOTE: Unvote

Something is going on there that I think will clarify which of the two are scum. Because while I think that ABR's responses are shitty I have to determine where it is just his arrogant incorrect self or if KlingonCelt is scum.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Yume


Prodded 3 times here, yet definitely active in other games.

This vote is horrible IMO.

Yume crumbed <redacted> move on please.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Worldzmine

Vote Count looks off by the way.

[MathBlade]

Town is taking jabs at each other and getting upset, then they ignore the scum. That's what I feel like is happening.

karnos getting desperate

Do you think PV is also my scum partner?

Okay, I am desperate. Lets go and lose the game together, faster:
VOTE: PeregrineV

Logic would kind of dictate you vote the person you put the bounty on...

Bold mine.

Another piece of evidence that I'm town, and karnos is confirmed scum.

Another empty post. Worldz doesn't post a damn useful thing here. It is painfully clear Karnos is confirmed scum. Same with Peregrine V. We don't need more confirmation of what is tattoo'd on Karnos's ass.

[MathBlade]

Combining that with what ABR said makes no sense. Between the lack of content from Worldz, Peregrine V, and Random's defense of ABR (which is sketchy as hell) scum has got to be in these three.

ABR always is smart as either alignment. The fact he is completely messing up simple things confuses me. I also don't like how Kling is town for supposedly having the message. What is possible is that they pick up the message off their corpse if Kling killed Drixx. After all we only have conf scum word for it.

[MathBlade]

Klingon and worldz are town.

You are the only voice of sanity in this thread. If you are really scum nice pocket.

I'll give more content and play an objectively better game when we see some flips and I can make more sense of certain things. I've responded negatively so far because I think I was unfairly scumread counter to evidence in the thread. So if I live past a couple flips I'll be able to start game solving a bit more. If I end up being the lynch instead, I think it's a bad town play in general, but it's whatever I guess.

This reeks of scum going "Nooooo don't lynch me yet. I swear I will be towny later." This is just blatant AtE and horribad. Worldz needs rope.

[MathBlade]

Or we could not follow the ABR derp train.

[sarcasm] Let's vote the person who confirmed scum is voting for. That sounds soooo smart. [/sarcasm]

Worldz should be the lynch today.

[MathBlade]

And Klingon I will use it because it is confirmed via mod flip. Confirmed is confirmed. It has been demonstrated a frame is impossible. If you can show how Karnos could have been framed when it was before NAR and not day then I will stop using confirmed. I will use things that reflect reality.

I think you want Karnos to be so desperately not confirmed scum and for your vote of Peregrine V to not be AI but IMHO it is. Both you and ABR are voting with confirmed scum. Vedith and D&D also need additional scrutiny.