The Walking Dead Season 1 Finale (GAME OVER)

[MagnaofIllusion]

i'm here and i'm town.

hi all

Nope my Daycop says othewise

VOTE: Maxous

[MagnaofIllusion]

I guess I should be happy that this stayed at a manageable number of pages over the weekend while I on V/LA …

Personally I’d support a lynch on Other Head simply to stanch the flow of spammy shitposting from the Fire head.

Also anyone who wants to give Beeboy Town cred for shitposting can fight me also …

VOTE: Iprobably - the response to a single vote from Maxous at 36 is “Why Me” which needs rope. And then disappears into the backgroup. Note too busy to actually provide content but not too busy to say “I’m too busy”.

@Maverick

– if you liked Maxous’s points ( 35 ) why didn’t you vote Iprob?

@Cakez

– so coming off Science Upick where a not-insignficant reason for the scum sweep was your 100% derp Town meta read on Radiant please sell me on why you would lean heavily on meta for a Vedith Town read. Did you just not learn a single thing from that game or were you scum trying to force a Town read early?

@Catdog

– Any particular reason you are buddying Molly I should be aware of?

I’m inclinded to lean BBT as scum for actually being engaged in the game thus far. I’ve never seen BBT engaged Day 1 before as Town.

--

what is the scum to town ratio of your games so far?

Kuroi’s Alignment in Completed Games –

Town (14/13) – Open 643, Large Theme Mass Effect Mafia, Open 644 (Replaced Out but Town Slot), Micro 620, Micro 609 (Times two, Town on both Worlds), Mini Theme 1773 Symphonic Metal, Open 634, Micro 602, Mini Theme 1778 Buzzfeed, Open 627, Open 625, Open 630, Newbie 1671,

Scum (4 ) – Mini Theme 1795 Science UPick, Mini Theme 1794 Gunslingers, Micro 589, Large Theme A Song of Fire and Ice

3rd Party (0 ) – None

So there are the non Marathon statistics for you. The split on Town is if you consider his double Town alignment in Micor 609 as two Town slots or one. I eagerly await the scintillating output on Kuroi’s alignment this info provides from you.

before I out my role, some pple might want to save themselves the embarrassment and unvote me

Yeah after seeing this I’m very interested to see your input based on Kuroi’s games …

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think meta is a lot stronger on Vedith then RC (>.<). Even without the meta I'm townreading the slot anyway because the scumhunting and effort looks real.

So explain to me again with solid details how your Vedith meta is strong. Links to games that support your "Vedith would not do this as scum". It should contain both Town and scum games as support.

And then explain what posts from when you made that Townread led you to your Town assessment. I don't care about your later reasoning as that later reasoning didn't have anything to do with your early read.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok Cakez can go in my “Willing to Lynch” pile as I didn’t buy his meta statements originally when he made them in the back and forth with Vedith head. I’m not sure he’s scum but if he didn’t learn to stop Townreading for crap reasons from Science UPick I don’t want him in the game for long regardless.

--

I approve of cat-dog.

I disapprove of Cakes.

VOTE: cakes

Young and witless is probably scum, whether cakes is or not. The explanation of cakes as town without the explanation of me as scum in his post 166 167 171 and 172 is scum posting.

So you regardless of whether your current vote on Cakez would be a mislynch you think YAR is scum. And you didn’t vote him?

Dislike.

--

We will butt heads this game. It seems like it's destiny.

Please elaborate. I’m curious why you think this is if you think that post is on point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Historically we have.

Maybe this time will be different. We'll see.

Really? Now I have to dig up old games because I didn't recall that at all. If it was the case it paled in comparison to others I butted heads with.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah Iprobably is so busy that he can't post in this game but can post elsewhere on site ...

Lynch it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Looking at some ISOs to try to fix my reads deficiency

This is kind of a mess since I did the reads in the order I looked at ISOs

Maverick looks scum
IPS looks scum (both of these two for posts that look like there was no actual thought put into them and were just scum faking posts instead)
Beeboy null (he's done nothing AI yet)
Maxous looks townish (posts look real, unlike top two people here)
Xkfyu null (same as beeboy)
Kuroi leans awkward town
BBT leans scum (lots of coasty shitposts, not sharing reads, etc)
PV looks town (not his scum meta at all, and I don't think PV is one to adapt to his meta)

So now I have
Town - Maxous, Kuroi, PV, MOHIS
Null - Beeboy, Xkfyu
Scum - BBT, TD, IPS, Maverick

Feel a lot better now readswise

P-edit: I didn't like it, it was hand waving

Color me skeptical that it took you a whopping 5 whole minutes to do ISO reading and took the time to form actual reads for this many new reads and writing up the post ...

But why specifically is Maverick scum to you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Hebi -

Is Molly more scummy than Kuroi to you?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I would say so, yes.

I always hate softclaims though, and I have almost mislynched over it in the past in the last pick your power.

However, this softclaim is also ATEing, so its like a double dose of scummy to me.

Regardless, I have personally mislynched you because of your ATEing.

So Molly is double scum to you for things you actively acknowledge are are not necessarily alignment indicative?

Am I reading that right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

That's a post.

The next person who Townreads beeboy gets Dayvigged ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

We both know that IPS post was really bad.

Yes we do. Are you voting him? Is your ISO filled with any significant attempts to sort the game?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Did it ever occur to you that i'm busy because of other games? I doubt it.

VOTE: Maxous

Why aren't you voting me as I'm the one who actually made the point in the first place?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I agree I have done almost nothing this game but what I find odd is how you aren't actually addressing anyone with town reads on me directly. All you are really doing is discrediting the reads on me which is pretty meh since I don't get the impression you are scum reading me.

P.S: If you did ask people why they where town reading me and I missed that ignore this entire post.

Interesting response. Anyone Townreading you has to have a reason. You agree that you aren't doing anything. I think, therefore, that anyone Town-reading you are doing it for "Gosh, that's Beeboy" reasons which make me want to dayvig them with all my righteous rage about Townreading people for bad reasons.

I'm certainly not Scum-reading you is correct. That would require readable content. I'm just not going to let you skate by getting Townreads for "Gosh, that's Beeboy".

[MagnaofIllusion]

magna, hebi, beeboy all have me as scum but catdog as town? catdog who is townreading me (with good reason)?

So I'd really like for you, once you get done answering back questions, to point out specifically the posts I made where I said

1. Mollie is scum.
2. Catdog is Town.

Furthermore why should I give two shakes what Catdog's read on you is anyway? That's for extra credit.

[MagnaofIllusion]

what wld have been really kewl is if kuroi wld have answered this in the first place.

that way it wld have given me a hint into how he organizes his thoughts.

as of rn I have no clue and it makes me think he has something to hide.

I have played 2 games with kuroi and in neither did he bitch about sheeping but then he was scum. :/

I need to know if this is a player that I can work with or if he is doing the same boring ass tired routine of trying to throw me off cos of overly defensiveness which tends to come from scum!him. application of info is my primary focus here in trying to determine his thought.

my question was not a "fluff" question, i don't normally ask those. hey mav was around the last time I had to explain it to some1. which I think was cake boy.

So go to this thread - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66399

ISO Kuroi and search for the word sheep.

Read the results.

Note that his alignment in both worlds.

Now that doesn't mean that whole game was some long con to establish a Town meta just to save it for this specific game ... I'll leave that to judge for yourself.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't really care if you scumread me or not.

I cared about 5 minutes ago but now I don't.

you win

What do you have to hide? It should take you no time at all. It is a very simple request?

Why are you not cooperating?

/Irony

[MagnaofIllusion]

So yesterday sucked and today isn’t going to be much better so I’ll get what content I can in now.

Xkfyu can be Town. See 406 for why.

One player who seems to be getting Town reads that I can’t quite figure is BBT. Frankly my experience with BBT is that Town BBT Day 1 basically is a low content lurk-sack. He does a lot of naked voting, doesn’t answer questions, and generally doesn’t play a very Town looking game. This BBT is active which to my mind means he’s playing to get Town reads himself which I find suspect from my experience. Although we’ve never played together in a Large so that could be skewing my perception.

Mollie I’m setting aside as her soft-claim of a role that will settle the issue means I’m not going to waste time jousting with her at this stage. I live long enough to see Day 3 and she isn’t settled and then the digging will begin.

Beeboy’s back and forth with hebi around 356 actually makes me feel better about Beeboy and worse about Hebi. Beeboy’s point about hebi’s response in quoting a post after hebi called Beeboy scum is on point and hebi’s response isn’t very convincing.

Hebi’s “Oh, I don’t know who I should vote” at 441 is suspect given her own response to me on Mollie and Kuroi indicated Kuroi was still as scum read. Into the scum pool with her.

@Maverick

– you didn’t answer this. Please do so –

@Maverick – if you liked Maxous’s points ( 35 ) why didn’t you vote Iprob?

--

I am trying to understand why you think I would "strategic AtE" this early as scum.

If you were scum and knew it would work to get you Town read please explain why you wouldn’t choose that exact route?

--

I would like to say more but honestly, too many of this game are very null to me here.

Then why aren’t you actively asking questions to help you sort them if you are worried about it?

--

I'm not buddying her? Like at all. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

If you're referring to me telling Kuroi that mollie does shit for a reason and he should cooperate with her, that comes from playing a lot with mollie and hydraing with her. I'm starting to understand her and how she works (I've also learned a lot from her). If it's something else can you point it out to me please?

Um you just quoted me a textbook example of buddying. You went out of your way to defend Mollie’s question process in saying that everyone should just cooperate with her when Mollie should be able to defend her own position without assistance.

I need to know (and you subsequently explained here) if there is some built in relationship between you that would possibily compromise your ability to read her. Yes, yes you play with her / hydra with her and understand her. I’ve seen that explanation before. I ‘m not big in buying into it. You obviously like playing with her and that is going to color your reasoning.

--

Is this a meta thing or just a general aversion to people townreading shitposters?

This is a bad question. There is no reason why shitposting should EVER get Townread. Period. It’s a playstyle to emphasizes protecting their scum games by compromising their Town games. Frankly it is the absolute worst trend I have noticed on MS since returning. Back in the day chronic shitposting was distained. Now it seems to be almost celebrated which makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

Does "Why Me" come more often from newbscum than newbtown?

“Why Me” on basically a single vote in a Large game comes from players overtly worried about their survival. That is more likely to come from scum regardless of how new they are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, you don't know me.

Like, at all.

Are you disputing that in the games we've shared before you haven't played in that manner Day 1 as Town? Yeah, I know it is a fairly small sample size but that's what I have to go on.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Right. It's a super small sample size.

Contrary to current belief, I am usually one of the most active posters in any game I am in. Over the past 9 months or so I have been super busy and just not had the time for it.

Even so, after all the 'lurking' you have seen me do, my average post count is still 20 posts per real life day sooo that should tell you to never try and meta me again.

Thanks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah apparently Mollie has gone full slack mode given her soft. I’m whelmed by that.

--

So far, YAW, Hebi and SC all look like good lynches.

So given the sparsity of reasoning on hebi as scum (which I agree with) in your ISO why are you scum-
reading her?

--

It was a figure of speech, I didn't ISO people who I hadn't noticed in the game so far

Um how can you honestly say you hadn’t noticed me when you previously had given a heartly LOL to my saying you would be a good lynch on policy reasons? You should have been poring through my (limited) ISO for signs that I was scum if you are Town given that alone. Yet I don’t appear in 289 and your rundown.

You are scum not wanting to make waves aren’t you Cakez?

--

Iso of CatDog puts them squarely at null- they have "reads" by not reasons behind them. There is one post that might be pointing something out, but I can't parse it.

Iso of Young and Witless looks like they are scumhunting. They are a slight townlean.

I haven't looked at Cake yet, but CatDog's case on Young looks to be that Young thinks Cake is town and CatDog finds that scummy...?

Vote: CatDog

So you have a full Large game going on here and you decide to vote a Null read? Is that what I just read here?

Who is scum Pere?

--

because pulling people's teeth out ain't my idea of a good time

Well then your response to people not putting in enough effort to be Townread is to not put in effort yourself but to complain elicits the following response from me



Yes the above sentence is incredibly unwieldy and awkward. Deal with it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EDT today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

VOTE: Hebi

Since iProbably has apparently flaked his replacement is going to get a halo and I don’t have the energy to fight with everyone about that right now.

--

It was off the top of my head when picking people, if I didn't remember you I didn't remember you. Suck it up big boy.

See .. this is why I might join Catdog’s Cakez crusade eventually. Because this response doesn’t pass the smell test. Like day old fish in the farmer’s market. I think your explanation for who you ISOed and why is suspect.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm actually incredibly disappointed in the fall of the cakez wagon. Somebody tell me why isn't scum?

Nah the burden is on you to convince others why your case should be sheeped not the other way around ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Mollie

– please give me some detail on why you think this is scum Wisdom. The only game (and really it is half a game since I replaced in late) I’ve shared with him he was scum and there was kind of a loudmouth jerk. I’m really not seeing that here so far. Is my experience unusual?

@Max

– please remind me of your Cakez read please.

--

Cool sure, why am I scum and not YAW after his whole thing about pushing activity being a town thing.

Fallacy in full effect – prove how I’m scum when player X is doing something scummy. Nice!

Hebi you’ve yet to explain how the following sequence makes any sense from a Town perspective …

Sure, I think I have a good one here, why is it that you seem to be so scum this game?

I need to catch up a bit more since my computer KEEPS DYING every time I fix it, but I think I can place a vote here for now.

VOTE: Kuroi

Honestly I didn't even notice that vote.

Oops.

Still think you're scum.

Honestly willing to get some more pressure on this slot. Thought I also dont understand the sudden kuroi townreads, he hasn't done anything that impressive since I voted him.

He hasn't done anything that scummy either though.

VOTE: pirate mollie

I would say so, yes.

I always hate softclaims though, and I have almost mislynched over it in the past in the last pick your power.

However, this softclaim is also ATEing, so its like a double dose of scummy to me.

town- magna, bunch of letters starting with X
null- PV, cakez, other head, IPS
scum- Pirate Mollie, beeboy, Kuroi,

currently where my head is at.

UNVOTE: Mollie

Sounds like mollie is claiming stump, I don't want any part of this anymore. If she is and doesn't die then we have a lynchable, if she does stump all the better. Just don't do it yet.

Hmmm... I'm not sure where to vote for right now. Maverick has a point with Mollie's questioning. Though I would argue Kuroi did the same exact thing as mollie did just without the claim to fall back on. If you really want to argue about pointless questions, maverick.

So you went on and on about how Kuroi was scum. Sure, Mollie was more scum to you but Kuroi was still scum. But you wanted pressure on Mollie’s slot. Yet once you unvoted Mollie suddenly you “don’t know where to vote”. If that whole sequence was actually scum-hunting on your part I would have expected a Kuroi vote.

Yet next you just jump on the YAW bandwagon which happens to be the biggest wagon ( in 451 ) while using a weak “I might be tunneling” excuse.

Doesn’t read as Town to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

14. TiphaineDeath (strongest)- I like thier posting
13. MagnaofIllusion- Hasnt posted enough
17. Wisdom- Hasnt posted enough

Please reconcile these claims given the following from the Activity Overview –

Wisdom Aug 06, 05:10am Aug 15, 03:14am 0 days 10 hours 31
MagnaofIllusion Aug 06, 01:31pm Aug 15, 12:23pm 0 days 1 hour 23
TiphaineDeath Aug 06, 12:25pm Aug 11, 04:53pm 3 days 20 hours 9

I do not see a path to reads on Wisdom or myself as Null for “Not posting enough” that allows for a “Strongest Town read” on TD when she has less than ½ my posts and 1/3 Wisdoms.

And before you make the “Postcount does not mean content” response I would like you to with a straight face suggest that TD has in her 9 posts provided more content than I have in my 23.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well since Mollie has decided to ignore my question and apparently doesn’t want my help in pushing Wisdom I’ll just keep forging ahead with scum-hunting in other places …

Hebi also ignoring 696 makes me even more comfortable with my vote. And since she’s responded to posts after that one I can only assume it was deliberate. Last I checked we needed 3 more votes. Let’s get this done and swing scum.

I mean 733 looks pretty fake to me given she has a Null rating and yet doesn’t bother to include Maverick, DGB or myself anywhere on her reads list.

--

The only thing I like about hebichan is his mollie vote

Mollie isn’t getting lynched today. Join the Hebi wagon and lynch scum and I’ll help you out on Mollie tomorrow if she isn’t dead or Mod confirmed overnight.

--

i don't think i gave one previously?

I'm very unsure about SC.
I would lean the scum side of null simply based on how long he has sat on the farside wagon for no reason.

I didn’t know if you had or not but wanted to know your read regardless.

So the issue I have is that at the time I asked the question YAR, hebi and Cakez were the leading wagons. As much as I think dualing scum wagons on Day 1 of a Large are possible I don’t think all three leading wagons are going to be scum unless this is some sort of Multiball scenario which we will not have any clue about until at least Day 2.

So you think all three of those wagons stand a chance of being on scum, even with a weaker Cakez read. Gun to your head which of YAR or Hebi do you think would be Town if you suddenly knew only 1 could be scum?

Also given the following bolded (which I think is absolutely a valid thing to think)

MagnaofIllusion - seems fine I guess. nothing scummy to note.

I don't think he has done anything he wouldn't be capable of faking as scum

which is why it's a fairly light town-read.

Why are you solidly Town reading BBT for traits that are 100% easily faked as scum? And I don’t buy “he would not be more passive Day 1” for a second given BBT’s earlier back and forth with me about his previous activity levels the last 6 months.

I get the feeling that they are more concerned with defending themselves from the lynch than they are with solving the game.

YAR has been either the leading wagon or a strongly competing wagon for much of the day. Do you expect them not to defend themselves at all in that position? If yes do you think your perception might by that reality?

[MagnaofIllusion]

eh maybe i'm underestimating him but i don't think he would be able to fake the genuine conviction feeling of the push.

I think you are way overselling the ability of scum to tunnel on a slot (which is mainly what he has been doing, I noted that after he got called out for tunneling by both Farside and Wisdom he went back and tried to widen his net as it were) and appear to have conviction.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So the above post warrants more votes, I would say.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maxous has been going back and forth on me and YAW for most of the game. Some of the time he says my wagon looks nicer and some times he feels like YAW is the best.
It genuinely feels like he's keeping his options open for towncred.

For those (yes, mainly DGB) who think the following thought process is from Town let's read carefully.

Hebi is asserting that Maxous is keeping his options open between YAR and Hebi for

TOWNCRED

.

I've capitalized and bolded the important word.

How, from a Town perspective, does Hebi expect that Max is keeping the option open between the two of them to get Towncred? By jumping to a hypoTown Hebi lynch? He's not going to get Towncred for that. From staying on a YAR lynch if Hebi's goes through? He's not going to get Town cred for that even if YAR is scum ... Max has been too passive and not pushing YAR hard.

The only way Max should be keeping his options open for Towncred is if Hebi is scum and Max can eventually shift from YAR to Hebi to help a successful scum lynch (bus or honest move either way this is the only scenario that makes sense).

Town Hebi should not have come up with that scenario and say Max is looking for Towncred. Scum Hebi on the other hand ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

YAW wagon collapsing and if it continues to there will be no CW to Hebi.

I wonder what that could mean.

Does it mean you are not effective at pushing your pet wagon?

--

People carelessly throw bus'ing accusations all the time. If you scrutinize the semantics of player's posts to this extent they will all look scummy regardless of their alignment - lurksacks will lurk to win because they'll never post content you can semantically nit pick.

I did find his attitude to be townie, as in genuinely puzzled as to how s/he came to be wagoned.

I mean if you are just going to dismiss a valid assessment of why Hebi’s post didn’t come from a Town perspective I don’t know what to tell you DGB.

Maybe go back to whining about Mollie or something.

[MagnaofIllusion]

if you were not swayed by what I explained to far then I doubt there is anything really compelling that I can add that wld entice you to help me. it is a feeling based read. it isn't that I ignored you I just did not know what to say. your snark doesn't make it any easier.

Given there was no response at all I drew the only conclusion I could. Glad I was incorrect.

I mean - I'm more asking if there was some meta basis that you could point to fueling that particular gut on Wisdom. Despite what BBT says meta has its place in Mafia.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: hebichan

eh

So talk to me about your Hebi as scum read Catdog. Because a quick search of your posting this game comes up with only 1 mention of Hebi and it is this vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I have had a very hard time drawing the read out in a way that I cld clarify it for myself and for other pple to see it is cos he will do a 1v1 thing (he has done this in the past) and pple wind up townreading him for it, it is how he wins as scum.

If you have a link or two showing this and it plays out that way this game I will grind him into the dust for you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

who are you talking about here

Um ... Catdog? Hers is like the 3rd question or so question/ comment on her hop onto Hebi.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’ve mulled it over on my drive this morning and don’t think I will unvote.

Hebi’s claim is … meh. It isn’t a role that can be proven one way or the other in any way that is alignment indicative as Hebi stipulates to herself. The claim itself is a perfect cover to explain why as Mafia she isn’t Nightkilled and presents Negative Utility WIFOM for a potential Town Vig. And even if she’s Town her play has rendered any potential she’d be a Nightkill target moot.

The main reason why I’m not unvoting is not the claim itself but her play surrounding it. Hebi isn’t engaging her wagon in any way or trying to parse out alignments anyone. All she does is appear to make a claim and do nothing else. She looks scum trying to minimize her links to teammates with her lynch possibly imminent and hoping that the claim bails her out for another day.

Hebi flipping scum would make we want to look more closely at Catdog, Wisdom and Xk.

Given that Maverick popped back up to say “Hey I’m here” and “Hey, I’ll get to your questions soon” following a generally unimpressive prior ISO I think he’s prime bullet material if we have a Vig.

--

Secondly, I've been reading Wisdom as town, based on the transparency in Post 679, and

the general ease in which he seems to be posting.

The bolded is an absolutely crap reason to Townread anyone.

Why do you think “ease of posting” is in any way alignment indicative. It is 100% playstyle driven.

YAW seems like a real good choice.

Then given me a short case on YAW in your own words then …

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't really care that you think the reason is crap. I disagree. The only way that you can know that it's 100% a playstyle thing is if you have seen Wisdom make such carefree and non-calculated posts as scum. If you have, then I'd like to see them.

Soccer Spirits Mafia – http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65649

Here’s his ISO - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

So yeah – please tell me that his posts that game were “not effortless”.

Regardless, post 679 is townie enough anyways, which you apparently agree with since you didn't take issue with it.

Yeah more spurious reasoning. 679 is null. Wisdom has been on my radar since very early on in the game with his seemingly effortless Town read of me. He’s not being as aggressive as when we directly interacted in in SS but this is Day 1 and I didn’t replace there until like Day 4ish. Which is why I’ve been after Mollie for more depth on her read as I wanted a sounding board.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What is your read on YAW MoI?

Null. I've had irons in the fire that I was tending and haven't seen anything from anyone pushing the wagon that made me go "Hmm, maybe I should re-look at them". The fact that my prime suspect since IProbably replaced out was on the wagon didn't give me any further motivation.

[MagnaofIllusion]

That reminds me - add Maxous to the list of players who really need drilled down into if Hebi flips scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

However, I'm still trying to weigh the likelihood that she is telling the truth and the likelihood of having an investigative that could confirm her claim versus the benefit of having her be conftown. (And I want to see what Creature thinks too, not sure what he's been doing.)
-smart

So you think that a Cop Innocent would make her Confirmed Town? I want to be clear that is exactly what you are saying.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think there was a lyncher? are you wanting me to go check, if so just say so and I will go look at the twd games I played. a cple of them were with hydras.

If you aren't really interested I'm going to do a full inventory of his completed Walking Dead / Pokemon / other games in the AM. So that might save you some work ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

No problem I'll do the grunt work

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok this Mod Meta dive was driven by YAR’s (specifically the SS head) statements about what he thinks Radja would do in a game. Keep in mind this is just gathering data. Given I think all of these completed games are Micros or Minis the fact that we are in a Large means that there is nothing that can be taken for granted about the set-up. More specifically I’m looking at Mod inclusions of Bulletproof roles and Godfathers / Cops because those are most relevant to Hebi’s claim and how it should be handled. I also am not including Newbie or Open games as those are completely different animals.

Walking Dead Games

:

Micro 615 – Walking Dead Episode 5

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66739

Town 2-Shot Cop, Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Bodyguard, Mafia Framer

Micro 607 – Walking Dead Episode 4

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66255

Town Cop

Micro 593 – Walking Dead Episode 3

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65696

None of the three roles I specifically am looking for

Micro 579 – Walking Dead Episode 2

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65288

None of the three roles I specifically am looking for

Micro 565 – Walking Dead Episode 1

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64880

Town 1-Shot Cop

Pokemon Games

:

Micro 617 – Pokemon Episode 5

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=66863

Mafia Godfather. Of note because there was additionally a Miller role and no Cops to be seen.

Micro 602 – Pokemon Episode 3+4

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65942

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof

Micro 589 – Pokemon Episode 2 -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65526

Town Odd-Night Cop

Micro 581 – Pokemon Episode 1

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65312

None of the three roles I specifically am looking for

Other Games

:

Mini Theme 1815 – Game of Thrones S1E1

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=67522

Scum 1 Shot Bulletproof

Mini Theme 1735 – Radjarock 2

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=64070

None of the three roles I specifically am looking for

Mini 1709 – Radjarock

- http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63100

Town JOAT with 1 shot of Cop

--

So what is the take-away? YAR seems to be right that Radja doesn’t have a strong history with Godfathers although that may be more a function of running so many Micros.

Cops to tend to appear in his set-ups as well but generally there seems to be some sort of balance for them (Roleblockers who I didn’t note but appear fairly often, limited shots, or the noted Framer).

Bulletproofs also appear fairly infrequently and of both alignments but tend to be limited in some fashion.

Nothing in this Meta dive gives me enough doubt about the Hebi lynch to overcome the fact that she has stopped posting any content (which I noted earlier) and looks to be minimizing her interactions for future analysis purposes which says scum to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

its why I have not unvoted either but I am starting to struggle with it cos there is no hint of a cc and the role is believable cos I have had town bp in twd games twice now. so for that reason I think I might be leaning towards believing her.

who wld be your next choice?

I’d really have to dig back through the game to find who I’d go to next. Farside seems Town to my eyes but I’d really want to re-examine if we are looking at a Hebi as Town world since my IProb read was fairly strong.

Wisdom might be another place I’d go given the hop off Hebi earlier.

--

mollie your new sig is brilliant
-smart

Nothing else to add? Who is scum (putting aside Hebi) in your mind?

[MagnaofIllusion]

fwiw I'm pretty sure I'd have pushed a counterwagon if I was her buddy and I decided I didn't want to bus her anymore

Um Mollie asked me in a world where Hebi was effectively Town where would I look next. Or at least that's the interpretation I made.

So yeah ... your response doesn't really matter in that context.

But I don't think Hebi is Town so I was responding to Mollie simply to allow her to see how I approach the game.

[MagnaofIllusion]

but wait, how is the hebi hop off relevant then? You think I'm the type of scum who tries to stay off wagons?

I don't think it is outside your ability as scum to extricate yourself from a wagon on Town, no.

Your "I don't do this or that" really doesn't impact me much after Soccer Spirits so probably best to not waste time responding to me with that sort of comment FWIW.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fuck this. I'm hammering.

VOTE: Hebichan

This would have worked better if the last vote-count wasn't like 2 posts above yours ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

This would have worked better if you didn't just say that.

Maybe but I could see the vote-count and your post on my screen at the same time. Have to assume that others can also.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't know if I'm more shocked about how I led the lynch on scum, or if it's because everyone is alive.

Did someone protect me? That'd be super sweet.

Um I think you get credit for voting them but I hate to say it and shatter your ego but you probably came in about 5th or 6th if we were determining who drove that wagon.

Sorry.

--

@Mollie

- so what's this about you be self-resolving and all? Do tell please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

*waves* omg I'm so excited rn and I have no idea why hello friends!

Hello MariaR.

Please read up and get your thoughts in thread ASAP. You replaced a player on my short list of wanting to hang after how yesterday turned out.

How does that make you feel?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Makes me feel even more excited on wanting to prove everyone wrong 40 pages to read hm? I'll read a little and see who started leading the bw on scum but I don't think i'm gonna read 40 pages mostly cause I don't think I need to (or semi want to heh...)

VOTE: MariaR

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so now that I have some time I’m going to lay out my thoughts …

I’m having a internal conflict based on Hebi’s flip as it was announced and the fact we had no deaths last night. I mention it so that people can remind me later on but for today I’m shelving it.

Young and Restless can be Town for today in my mind simply based on how they were an opposing Hebi wagon and my general dislike for the make-up of said wagon.

Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan
hebichan (5) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum

hebichan (7) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum, farside22, Ankamius
Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, hebichan, DrippingGoofball

These to my eye are the pivotal vote-counts based on the push for Hebi. Anyone who was on the Hebi wagon by the second vote-count and stayed on until the end gets to be Town for me also.

So Kuroi, MOHIS, farside and Ank all get Town reads from me in the short term.

Now let’s talk about the players I think probably are good rope candidates –

Catdog – It’s already been mentioned that there has been no good explanation for why Catdog jumped onto the Hebi wagon given Catdog’s ISO mentoned them never before voting. Furthermore the ISO is pretty unimpressive. My best guess for a bus vote.

DGB and BBT – BBT’s soft-claim of an investigation result on DGB (which is bad that he isn’t even giving room for possible Godfather issues in his stance) makes this a package deal. DGB was absolutely useless yesterday. BBT spent the whole day trying to strong arm a YAW lynch while paying lipservice to Hebi as scum while doing nothing to develop why he thought that or move the wagon forward. His “this claim and lack of counter-wagon are making me nervous” statements at the end of day were sketchy.

@BBT

– please indicate why you chose DGB.

Maxous – Another case of paying lipservice to theHebi wagon while constantly pushing YAW instead. I also don’t like the way on several occasions he responds to suspicion with “Nope I’m Town” on a gut level.

Peregrine – After a strong start yesterday went into lurk mode as the Day went on. As others have noted he does nothing to establish a read on Hebi.

MaraR – This is my weakest read (simply because it is based solely on some early suspect play by Maverick and his subsequent lurking and replacement request) but still worth considering. The AtE self-vote fest since my prod vote and “I don’t have to read” spam doesn’t dissuade me from pursuing further. Also hate the fluff like 1044.

VOTE: Catdog is where I want to start.

--

no1 is more surprised than I am that there was no nk. I am pretty sure I shld be dead for a cple of reasons.

This isn’t an answer …

Given no kill occurred I’m dubious that you are that surprised.

Unless you have a better answer to my question you can absolutely kiss my support goodbye on your Wisdom crusade.

--

I seen nothing really about Maverick/Maria.
Care to fill me in?

As said above … it isn’t strong. The thing that tipped me was 35. Maxous had just dropped a non-RVS vote on IProb that Maverick said “I like”. Yet he keeps his RVS vote on BBT. That’s the kind of play I can see from scum especially Newb scum … praising and buddying up to someone actually scum-hunting while not actually thinking through the fact that Town who thought there was a case on IProb would be moving their vote.

And his active lurking / acknowledgement of open questions that he never came back to answer on a gut level I can see from Newb scum.

--

Lmao 1-shot bulletproof claims are always fake

So aside from the fact that it was a Full BP claim why if they are “always fake” didn’t you vote the fake claim?

--

I was fairly solidly town-reading them but their vote on hebi really rings alarm bells.

Yeah I’d like you to go into more detail about why you think they are Town because looking at that ISO I don’t see it.

--

Dgb because i dont think she plays like that while a buddy is being lynched but im not extremely confident

DGB is certainly capable of playing that way if she expected the claim to get Hebi off the hook for yesterday.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I chose DGB because she did nothing to me that helped me read her.

It was between DGB and Pere. Also, I was a 1-shot gunsmith which means DGB is clear as even a GF shows up with a gun, no? Also means we probably have a vig who didn't shoot for false positives.

Fair enough. Why didn’t you explicitly make it clearer given that you are now saying you are 1-shot instead of being vague originally?

XK covered it pretty well. DGB is not confirmed Town given the realities of Mafia Doctors but your claimed clear covers most other realistic scenarios. I don’t see DGB as a Mafia Traitor playing that passively Day 1 as it made her a viable lynch in the eyes of plenty of players.

The above is probably getting OMGUS'ed after I have read the thread.

YAR isn’t getting lynched today. Move on and be productive instead of acting like Radiant and pointless voting someone for ego purposes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

YAR I agree Wisdom here - do you think BBT makes a weak claim (1 Shot Gunsmith) that isn't going to give him a free ride the rest of the game (and may be open to counter-claim) if he is scum in light of scum losing a Member yesterday and Town losing no-one?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think BBT does whatever he thinks he needs to avoid being lynched. (Plus, it would be easy for him to change his claim to 2- or 3-shot later and say he claimed 1-shot to avoid being killed.)
-smart

You must be not reading then because the trend today has not been very BBT lynch oriented.

What are your thoughts on Catdog?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Saying this now as I re read I do a ton of fluff post and LAMIST posts now that we got that out of the way I'm gonna go ISO read the 2 people I was asked to read (the person who died habi w/e and...I forgot I'll remember dw)

I'm not sure why you think "getting this out of the way" means you should continue to make clearly anti-Town posts if you are Town.

Why is that again?

You can also look at my recent big post for my explanation of what problems I had with Maverick.

[MagnaofIllusion]

except it wasn't.
i pointed out that hebi was scummy as early as #480 when she was only on two votes and transparently supported the wagon even though, yes I had a preferred lynch target votes

So you just basically are restating my argument here ...

Thanks!

[MagnaofIllusion]

That entire post on Sir Cakez ignores the burning question of brimstone sitting in your lap Catdog ...

Why did you not mention Hebi even once before voting them?

[MagnaofIllusion]

That entire post on Sir Cakez ignores the burning question of brimstone sitting in your lap Catdog ...

Why did you not mention Hebi even once before voting them?

Nevermind I missed the short part at the end where you addressed this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Catdog who else besides Sir Cakez is scum?

[MagnaofIllusion]

just stating facts.
there's an implication that i only called hebi scum after she was being wagoned to distance from her but that's not actually true.

No the implication is that you called Hebi scum weakly and never did anything to further her lynch while clinging to YAR's lynch because it was "your preferred choice".

Remind me - why aren't you voting YAR today?

[MagnaofIllusion]

YAR=YAW?

Yes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If we could lower the volume of discussion of Summer in Wonderland that would be great. Because it is a single game and if you are leaning on it for meta without leaning on the tons of other games SirCakez has as scum (including Soccer Spirits) then you are doing it wrong.

I’m whelmed by Catdog’s content since being called out. A single (no matter how well detailed, scum can make cases also) case on a single player and excuses about personal duties. Personal responsibilities are fine and dandy but Catdog is a hydra and I see no reason why the head without a birthday party to attend to isn’t picking up the slack. Especially since I know that head is active on site.

Maria’s posting is so difficult to parse given who generally light they are on volume. That makes me scrunch up my face in unhappiness.

Also here’s something that is perculating in my brain about Day 1 –

hebichan, Zombified Amy, Zombie Mafia Ninja, lynched day 1

This is a pretty powerful role for scum. Especially with the inherent fear of Tracker / Watcher / Motion Detector out there for scum when seeing a Ninja role. My feeling is that scum worked hard to protect Hebi as much as possible. So I’m going to focus away from possible bussers like Catdog and more on those who worked to downplay the wagon on Hebi / kept fueling the YAW wagon.

--

I mean, I felt good yesterday that we had two scum wagons as leading wagons.

See this makes no sense …

Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan
hebichan (4) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom
SirCakez (3) - CatDog, My Other Head Is Scum, TiphaineDeath

I don’t see it as viable for the game-state to be here as it is and for scum wagons to be on both YAW and Hebi and for the wagon on Cakez to just fall away while the other grow if you are stating he is Town and both the others are scum. Especially given the heat he is getting today. It doesn’t make sense for Hebi to be power-bussed over Cakez given her role. And if you are floating that Cakez is also scum I have the same problem I had with Maxous floating that possibility Day 1.

Care to explain why you think this?

--

Basically DGB is town unless shes mafia doctor or mafia traitor

Or, you know, BBT lied. Why isn’t that possibility on your radar at all? I mean it seems less likely but shouldn’t be dismissed.

--

My scumreads were very stale (really nonexistent besides CatDog >.<) so I went looking around the people who were dodgy around the hebi wagon.

Then how did you not come up with Peregrine on your suspicions list?

Also shouldn’t you be included in that pool for players who aren’t you given your play regarding the Hebi lynch? I see your 1235 but it doesn’t make sense that you supposedly were looking for players sketchy about the Hebi wagon and apparently didn’t read up on everyone when you make your list.

--

i'm still not delighted with them but eh, being the counter to a scum-wagon gets them enough leeway for now
though their BBT push doesn't endear me further.

Well this is where we reach an impasse where I can’t cross a chasm away from you as scum.

You specifically went out of your way yesterday to discuss how your Day 1 reads were not dependent as they were pre-flip. That’s a fine stance to take but you just blindly stuck to a wagon on YAW and gave lip service to the Hebi wagon. And now think people shouldn’t find your behavior suspect especially given the flip?

There is nothing wrong with his BBT push. I think BBT fits well into a pool of viable scum reads today based on how he handled the Hebi wagon yesterday. I’ve already explained this. His claim is just that – a claim that I take at face value. Do I think it makes sense from Scum? Probably not but it is not outside the realm of possibility for reasons that I have in the back of my mind that aren’t relevant to today. So your second reason for suspecting them makes little sense to me.

ankamius needs to give a reason he's town here too.

How about the fact that he actually helped push the Hebi wagon past the YAW counter-wagon and stuck with it to the end?

VOTE: Maxous

--

I am pretty sure won't be able to reach your expectations with any answer that I am able to give then.

Ok … at least I know where to proceed from at this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why does BBT come out and fakeclaim that while under no pressure whatsoever?

Why does he pre-emptively as Town come out and "clear" DGB when DGB was under no pressure whatsoever at that point either? It's a non-starter question as it makes sense as neither alignment.

[MagnaofIllusion]

It's already been laid out today in posts from Farside and myself.

Read the thread.

[MagnaofIllusion]

DGB is being a lurksack which is terrible given her claimed Town status via BBT.

Oh and 1457 makes me both laugh at the unwarranted confidence the threat is meaningful and want to Powerlynch that slot for pre-emptively setting up a lynch if Max somehow is Town.

@BBT

– There is an important question for you at 1316 . Don’t think I don’t want a serious answer. What happened to your super Pro-Town active player from Day 1 BTW?

--

At the time of the vote it wasn't pressure on herbi at all.
He just sat there afterwards without commenting on anything else and he sure as hell didn't push to have her lynched
Just my 2 cents.

Moi any thought on this from you?

I’ll look in more depth at Kuroi when I have more time. As I’ve said – I’m more focused on the non-bussing element of that wagon given the Ninja flip.

I’ll give it some thought and get back to you.

--

Mollie isn’t getting lynched today. Join the Hebi wagon and lynch scum and I’ll help you out on Mollie tomorrow if she isn’t dead or Mod confirmed overnight.

reminding Magna that this needs to happen

Well given you ended up bailing on the Hebi wagon before it went through I’m not sure why you think we have a completed bargain …

But I do have my mind on the fact that the “Resolving Role” issue is hanging out there.

--

:shrug:
you can find it suspect if you want, I explained my thought process pretty transparently on both Day 1 and Day 2 here.
i had a scum-read on both slots BEFORE they became big competing wagons which contradicts this idea that I was pushing YAW to protect hebi.
i mean, it's not even as if i was town-reading hebi or putting her null/ avoiding an opinion. I was pretty supportive of the wagon.
I don't think you even have a problem with the logic reasoning on my reads.
The big issue is that I didn't actually vote her...which is whatever?

You are either purposefully missing the point or just don’t understand the issue. You claimed a scum-read on Hebi and did NOTHING with it. You sat on a YAW wagon simply stating it was your preferred wagon. In fact all the points you make about how you pointed out this and that about Hebi reinforce my thought you were softly distancing from Hebi and thus my vote.

If you don’t think the way you went about not voting confirmed scum and sitting on a counter-wagon you did little to push isn’t scummy then I don’t know what to tell you.

in fact counter-question: if i was so desperate to protect my ninja buddy then why did I highlight her shit vote here in the first place?
this was back when hebi wasn't under a whole lot of pressure

You mean the crappy vote that many other people also pointed out and actually acted upon? I mean I’m not sure I get why you are asking the question. Your response in that post of “I’m starting to come around on Hebi Scum” is hardly putting pressure on the slot. It reads as soft distancing, which is a theme you are purposefully downplaying.

--

I thought his cross posting with you looked townish but wis has never misread me, the only time he thought that I was scum when I wasn't he was scum. it is 1 of the handful of times I got mislynched and it was cos he shoved my wagon through much like how he is in this gamer. he was lynched the next day round but kuroi went on to win the game. he really really feels like scum here.

I have him in my “Meh, probably Town” pile. Your personal interactions aside I like where his head has been Day 2 so far. He might be agreeing with me and trying to pocket me as scum but that’s not anything I’m not aware of so I don’t find it a big issue at this point.

how does it make sense as either alignment?

Did you misread my post? I said his claim made sense as

neither

alignment.

I think your read on max is baseless,

Here’s where you lose me Mollie. Have you ignored my posts on Maxous today? Because I was the first one to actively start pressuring him. So you are basically shitting on my thoughts indirectly and while I think your Wisdom read might be emotionally tainted I really want you to look at Maxous’s play Day 1 and tell me honestly you don’t see soft distancing going on from that slot. Look at the weak ways he acknowledges Hebi is scummy but does nothing to further that read or even interact with Hebi. Notice how he sits on the YAW wagon (which if Maxous is scum makes me more assured on BBT as Town given I think he was trying to draft in BBT’s wake) and doesn’t really push it either.

I also think your Townread on Maxous as stated in 1476 is trivially easy for scum to implement and is a pocket attempt on you.

The other thing I’m wondering about you are so worked up about Wisdom mislynching if you have that sefl-resolving role you claimed. You are sort of hinting that you’ll get Mod cleared and I’m not sure why Wisdom’s scum read would have meaning to you since that clearage would make him look bad.

@ magna

plz plz plz plz look at this game:

I have skimmed it before. I’ll look at it in more detail maybe over the weekend.

You aren’t getting lynched today given your help lynching Hebi so I wouldn’t worry about Wisdom’s read too much if I were you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What is it you want answering Magna?

Here I’ve isolated it so you can see clearly my issues / question –

I mean, I felt good yesterday that we had two scum wagons as leading wagons.

See this makes no sense …

Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan
hebichan (4) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom
SirCakez (3) - CatDog, My Other Head Is Scum, TiphaineDeath

I don’t see it as viable for the game-state to be here as it is and for scum wagons to be on both YAW and Hebi and for the wagon on Cakez to just fall away while the other grow if you are stating he is Town and both the others are scum. Especially given the heat he is getting today. It doesn’t make sense for Hebi to be power-bussed over Cakez given her role. And if you are floating that Cakez is also scum I have the same problem I had with Maxous floating that possibility Day 1.

Care to explain why you think this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Prodded- I'm here.

That's some whelming content right there ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

All the “Mollie contradicted herself” talk needs to end. It only makes sense if you choose a very narrow reading of both posts steeped in confirm bias of her being scum as you read.

Basic needs to come through shortly on the promise of content in 1592.

--

Sitting down to catch up tonight. Had unexpected doctor's appts come up.

Oh look another empty post and promise of content that didn’t arrive …

--

I don't understand your issue Magna.

Well either your reading comprehension skills are lower than I thought or you are playing dumb.

Either you believe Sir Cakez is Town in which case there is no way that YAW could be scum with Hebi and the wagon that existed on Cakez just fades with scum choosing to cross-vote each other as I showed in 1316 over voting Cakez …

Or

All three wagons are on scum [YAW, Hebi, Cakez] which makes no sense since scum would not have chosen to sacrifice their Ninja over whichever of the other two has a weaker role (and that is a basic truth given any strength in set-up analysis). And all three could have been pushed to lynch with scum’s help.

So I don’t think your YAW stance makes any logical sense. And despite your claim you look more scummy for that.

--

Just one thing I noted.
If wis is scum this game I'd say that YAW is scum too since wis didn't vote for them on day 1 to save herbi.

Same thing I pointed out to BBT above I want you to comment on farside. Please do so when you get a chance.

--

I think so. I took it as "neither alignment" as it cld mean either/or. am i wrong?

It means that it doesn’t make any sense for either alignment. I mean as Town BBT could have kept the read back to see if a push developed on DBG for being a useless lurksack and tried to find scum in that push but didn’t bother. And as scum claiming like that is pretty suboptimal for a number of reasons.

So it is a big fat Not Alignment Indicative pile of uselessness for me.

I wld really appreciate if you looked at the game but I kinda feel like you need a comparison to clarify, which is why if you are in the spirit of looking up other games I wld really like for you to look up other games.

Link them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I was just saying that neither YAW nor Herbi voted each other till both wagons were big enogh.
At that point bussing is very possible.
If you disagree with that I'd like to know why.

I'm asking the question - how does a Ninja get lynched if you think both YAW and Hebi were scum regardless of your read on Cakez?

The wagons that I quoted from the Mod were YAW 5 / Hebi 4 / Cakez 3

I'm not saying bussing is impossible. I'm saying that I don't see world where either -

1. Cakez is Town and both your hypo scum YAW and scum Hebi choose to cross bus as opposed to supporting a Cakez wagon, or

2. Cakez is Scum and scum don't push the lynch onto the least useful role in the three (and there is no way Ninja is the least useful Role).

I could be wrong but I'm not seeing it and I've yet to see an argument where either of my assessments is incorrect. Just "bussing is possible" which is true and completely useless in terms of explaining the scenario realistically.

If one of YAW / Cakez is scum I'd wager large on Cakez.

Do you disagree?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA from now until Monday morning for my usual family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

i feel like this is going in circles.

should probably just get rid of one of the low content players

eh, i'll vote back on PV

vote: PeregrineV

basic or ank either whichever.

How this hasn't drawn enough votes to lynch by this point is a strong sign that scum are not bussing after losing their first member.

I mean read the above - he's basically saying "Meh, let's not scum hunt let's just policy lynch on activity. I don't care who"

Maxous scum means odds of scum Peregrine is very, very low.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Let play, lets make a deal.

I think your town MOI.
If max isn't scum would you follow me onto Kuroi?
I'm pretty certain based on behavior he hasn't done before in a previous game he is just lurking scum here.

I'm V/LA so not sure when I can do a full re-read before Monday but I will do a full ISO on Kuroi and look at a couple of games we have in common (with both Town and Scum Kuroi) and decide.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Maxous is town

VOTE: Ankamius

Nope.

Ank is not being lynched today because he helped lynch scum which is more than I can say for most of the people trying to get that wagon started.

"Waa waa waa bussing" you cry. I don't give two shits about your bussing theories. I'll lynch anyone off the wagon Day 1 when we are in Day 2 over someone whose vote helped get a powerful scum role lynched.

BBT and DGB I'll lynch one of today over Ank. Both haven't contributed anything today that warrants being alive. BBT's weak claim isn't a shield for quasi incompetence and DGB's content is just barely above the Mendoza line.

I'm drawing a line in the sand - if you aren't with me on this Maxous lynch you are lining up for rope behind him.

I'm tired of watching this solid wagon on scum just falter as people play "I'd rather lynch people who make NO sense being lynched today given they helped lynch scum" for reasons that border on ludicrous.

It would not be this hard to get Maxous lynched as Town. Scum are not bussing and it is completely obvious.

[MagnaofIllusion]

looking at the wagons here, assuming magna is town tunneling here,
wisdom would lean town because i don't think he needed to get his hands as dirty as he has with my lynch (unless he thought the lynch would be easier? but maybe not)
Firebringer/vedith are town regardless.

you have 3 votes on my wagon {YAW,SC,Maria} that largely sheeped magna/wisdom and have just sat there without trying too hard to talk to me and that would likely be where you would find the scum. I would guess there is exactly one scum among the three.
if it's true magna + wisdom are both town then scum aren't really gonna bother trying to push me over the line, they already have players doing the heavy-lifting for them and they can just wait out the wagon until the other town-players finish it.

i would guess there are 2 scum off the wagon.

not BBT,DGB,farside or mollie but i realise that still leaves a large pool.

/VCA

Look a pile of garbage.

I have yet to see a single person explain

IN ANY WAY

how YAW makes any sense as scum given how Day 1 turned out. Sorry, no-one has and no-one will because it makes zero sense regardless of whatever obtuse and stupid scenario you try to concoct.

Oh and for kicks and grins remember where Max's vote is ...

i feel like this is going in circles.

should probably just get rid of one of the low content players

eh, i'll vote back on PV

vote: PeregrineV

basic or ank either whichever.

Oh look not a single mention of PV as scum in this piece of garbage. And suddenly no mention of Basic or Ank as scum here either. It's like he's just fishing for names .... oh that's right he is because he's scum.

The bolded just happens to be buddying to the most veteran players not currently on his wagon. Stupidly obvious.

The worst part about this is that there a no conclusions actually drawnabout who is actually scum - there is maybe 1 of 3 in a group and the rest are in a large group that he doesn't even bother to name names on. What's fucking easy for scum who know their partners to do? Call out Town because DERP THEY KNOW WHO TOWN IS. If you think this is Town actually scum-hunting you need a reset.

If anyone can't tell I've had it up to my neck with how stupid this Day has gone with lots of stupid counter-wagon attempts to Maxous.

Seriously getting off to a good start Day / Night 1 with 1 scum down and no Town down is no reason to act like morons today.

[MagnaofIllusion]

See vote count.
Sees max name.

Don't care.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am not going to be bullied into voting some1 who I think is town. sorry.

Ok.

@Wisdom

- I'll join you on a Mollie lynch once Max isn't the leading wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm still waiting on MoI to realize that max was on the wagon for hebi.
If your going off the wagon pick someone off the wagon.
I'm thinking scum bussed.

I'm waiting for you to realize I don't care in regard to Maxous. I'm just sick and tired of hearing other names with people chirping "He bussed" when Maxous's vote is the most bussy of every vote on the fucking wagon.

Maxous's player to a tee fit scum partner interactions. Much more than any of your other bussing theories that relied on scum voting their partner early and just going with it which is so weak it is frankly stupid.

Don't like it - I don't care.

You've done nothing to explain why I'm wrong and I'm not listening to alternate theories about bussing until Maxous is dead.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I started a large post about Maxous and 1/3 of the way through scrapped it. It’s there to see.

The only thing I’m going to requote from my ISO relates to players off limits for lynching today as follows –

Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, pirate mollie, hebichan
hebichan (5) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum

hebichan (7) - KuroiXHF, Young and Witless, MagnaofIllusion, Wisdom, My Other Head Is Scum, farside22, Ankamius
Young and Witless (5) - BlueBloodedToffee, Xkfyu, Maxous, hebichan, DrippingGoofball

These to my eye are the pivotal vote-counts based on the push for Hebi. Anyone who was on the Hebi wagon by the second vote-count and stayed on until the end gets to be Town for me also.

So Kuroi, MOHIS, farside and Ank all get Town reads from me in the short term.

So again – none of Kuroi, MOHIS, farside or Ank are getting lynch today. If you dislike it I’m sorry but it doesn’t make any sense given the development of Day 1.

Catdog continues to provide no content after that little flurry after they drew a wagon. Still scummy.

--

Oh by the way for anyone who doubts Maxous wouldn’t distance from and ultimately bus Hebi from his own discussion of YAR today on that topic –

distancing from partners > keeping useful PR's alive.

--

At MOI. A reminder. An internal conflict based on the hebi flip and no death last night. I dont know if this was addressed yet or even has any baring on whatever the current situation but its there.
Taking a break now.

This isn’t relevant to the discussion currently.

--

I mean, I think YAW was pushed pretty hard so I'm not sure I agree with that.

But not hard enough to be lynched over the Ninja. So why you feel the need to disagree I can’t fathom.

DGB is confirmed town dude.

Maybe to you. And putting aside the Mafia Doctor / Traitor issues. But until I see you flip Town 1 Shot Gunsmith I’m not assuming it to be the Lord’s Gospel.

--

I can't explain something like that moi.
You should also know im not in a hurry to just lynch a player and do fuck all.
Idk about max. The wagon it's self doesn't bug me, well sc vote does, because it just reads as following.
Consider me waiting.
I'll drop my argument on Kuroi and Anka and you can push your case, but don't expect me to support you if you can't look at more then one player as scum here.

Well if you can’t explain why I’m wrong on my scum read I can’t really work with you if you are going to fight tooth and claw against my preferred lynch then very well can I? I mean your reason for not supporting it is “I don’t like one particular vote and I’m not in a hurry”. To which I can say .. Ok.

When have I only looked at one player at a time exactly? I’ve had multiple scum reads this game and just because I’m pressing Maxous strongly doesn’t mean I don’t have others.

--

MagnaOfIllusion: Same type of question to you as I gave to Mollie. Top 1-3 posts of yours that indicate Maxous is scum; I'll cross-reference from there.

1847
1316
1074

Reading how Maxous defended Hebi at various points Day 1 in his own ISO is also important.

[MagnaofIllusion]

1847

1316
1704

EBWOP on the third link.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yet he wants to lynch both of us? Mkay

Over players whose votes helped wagon scum Day 1?

Absolutely.

It's not like "Cleared Town" players have never been scum with no flips and only claims to back it up. Like, for example, scum claiming Masons.

But I'd flip BBT before you if that makes you feel better.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Pere

- want to discuss why you had absolutely nothing to say about Hebi and the wagon on her yesterday? That would be great!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hes not the one pushing the two as likely scum, thats magna

Well let's be clear.

I'm pushing that both have way underwhelming ISO and Hebi interactions and that I'd lynch either over a player on my do not touch today list.

That's a bit different than the way you are framing it here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

magna's real estate has plummeted

Well we are in agreement on this (in cross reading each other) then because I stopped Town reading you today when you spent too much time worried about people calling you scum with your supposedly self-resolving role.

I'm, however, intrigued that your Town read on me mostly seemed to occur when you thought you had an ally against Wisdom and when that seemed to evaporate suddenly you "don't get what I'm doing".

What I'm doing was pretty clear. Pushing through a lynch on my top scum read. If it turns out that Maxous is telling the truth I'll go back to the drawing board tomorrow if I live through the Night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from now til Tuesaday morning.

I should have a bit more time than usual due to the holiday and somethings going on around here. May get some content in before Tuesday.

VOTE: Catdog

Peregrine is another vote I’ll make once we have significant content from the whole playerbase. But I don’t want the day to end before my V/LA is up.

Catdog caught some heat, came in and gave just enough content to buddy up to a segment of the playerbase who likes UTL and then disappeared with no content for the rest of the day.

Mollie also probably needs votes. And when I’m going to have time I need to look back at the Ank voters from yesterday.

Ank kill means that almost certainly scum found out about his role N1 somehow. I cant see them killing him of all people over 2 semi-conftown.

Meh. I think “scum scared to death of their Nightkill being Watched” given the dead Ninja plays as significant a role in the kill choice as anything else. Maybe both?

Yeah, they must have a role cop.

I was only one-shot Farside, I have no results.

If so I have suspicions it could be you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Not a bad point but still, why Ank instead of say, you? Even if they wanted to avoid killing DGB or BBT there were better choices than Ank unless they had info.

Many possibilities. Maybe the better choice was Doc protected N1 and they didn't want to risk a fail again. Maybe BBT isn't Town. Or maybe you are right. Too much unknown at this stage to for certain say why he died. Maybe his scum reads were accurate ... that's a reason to have Role-Copped him in the first place N1. I also need to look over his reads again in that light.

[MagnaofIllusion]

CatDog has requested to be replaced. Searching now.

Dwlee99 replaces Catdog!

If this is not dead well before MYLO time I will be very, very unhappy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wisdom please explain your Catdog Town read because I don't see that and Dwlee is playing very useless which is his scum play so ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

I just replaced in immediately cause I knew I had to take the opportunity right away. Doesn't mean I have the ability to do stuff ~yet~

Yet you have the ability to post fluff posts like this and "hey what's happening posts". Very useful for Town ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

I dont have a townread on catdog

Well then color me confused why you are defending Dwlee so hard since he is Catdog ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well then perhaps you might consider writing in more than quick soundbite-style posts because that's the take-away I got.

What is your read on the Catdog / Dwlee slot then?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh I've read I just generally don't put anything you write into "important things to remember" because they generally aren't.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@SirCakez

-

I should have a bit more time than usual due to the holiday and somethings going on around here. May get some content in before Tuesday.

VOTE: Catdog

Peregrine is another vote I’ll make once we have significant content from the whole playerbase. But I don’t want the day to end before my V/LA is up.

Catdog caught some heat, came in and gave just enough content to buddy up to a segment of the playerbase who likes UTL and then disappeared with no content for the rest of the day.

Mollie also probably needs votes. And when I’m going to have time I need to look back at the Ank voters from yesterday.

I've bolded the important point that you might have missed. Do you think waiting a few days is unreasonable? I don't.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What is taking so long?

We have a guilty and people are dragging their feet.

If Peregrine is Town this is so good a place to lynch. Worst case it confirms that DBG is mostly confirmed Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because my role will become basically useless if claimed

Nah, my role is extremely obvious town

I can't say that I'm a fan of you softing a claim that's supposedly obv-Town but will be useless if fully claimed ....

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why do I get the impression people care more about sir Cakez claim then Pere scum.
Nice that Pere gets to do lurks a lot play with barely a push from some people.

Why exactly do you post this Farside? Total serious question.

Because Pere's complete absence from the thread means any questions or pressure directed at him are pointless until he returns. You have to understand this. And as I've now pointed out multiple times the only reason I haven't vote him is that I don't want the Day ending before my V/LA ends so I can dig into multiple things I've pointed out (like, for example, wanting to dig into the push on Ank yesterday).

So aside from light shade throwing I don't get the purpose of your post. Should SirCakez be off-limits as far as examining and commenting on his soft-claim? What's my takeaway?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I didn't read the game lol

Look, scum!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because right now my softclaim isn't giving anything away to the scumz
If the scum know what my role is then it will be mostly useless (at least from what I'm predicting)

Seems clear

The big threat that makes roles useless vis-a-vie scum interference is the possibility of a blocking role.

The manner in which you soft-claimed today does nothing to insulate you from that.

So you might be postulating some weird edge-case but that's unknowable to people not-you from the information we have.

Color me not impressed with the logic employed here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now that I am fully back from V/LA …

First thing I need to do is look at the Ank votes from yesterday (specifically any that happened after Max’s wagon developed) … it is possible that those votes were scum who were sidelining the Maxous wagon.

This is the mini wagon that appeared - Mollie at 1820, farside at 1838, DGB at 1842

Mollie and DGB both get at least another Day or so of lack of push due to claims. Farside I’ll have to examine further but this isn’t getting resolved until after Pere flips in any case.

--

Next I want to discuss Peregrine’s reads list from Day 2 …

Sure


(+)
3. Ankamius beeboy- no change from before
6. farside22 Iprobablysuck- Like posting, but haven't tried to deconstruct yet
14. Basic TiphaineDeath- Maybe bias, but feels like basic is has sharethink with me
12. Young and Witless(Creature/Something_Smart hydra)-Hebi counterwagon +
13. MagnaofIllusion- disagree but + on the logic presentation

(0)
1. BlueBloodedToffee
2. SirCakez
16. Xkfyu
17. Wisdom
18. Maxous

(-)
4. KuroiXHF- It's complicated
5. pirate mollie- DNME
8. MariaR Maverick1102-
9. DrippingGoofball*- DNME
10. My Other Head Is Scum(Firebringer/Vedith hydra)**- Nothing to improve my opinion from yesterday
15. CatDog(UpTooLate/hiplop hydra)*- Nothing to improve my opinion from yesterday

Have no clue what the notation DNME means.

The thing that sticks out to me on this list are the discontinuity between his BBT and DGB read. BBT is Null as close to Town as you can get on his scale but DGB is deep in scum.

It’s not unreasonable to have doubts about BBT’s claim and thus the clearing of DGB. I have them myself. But given BBT has a Gunsmith clear (meaning, as we have rehashed to death, DGB could only be a Mafia Doctor or Traitor) it makes no sense for DGB to be a significantly lower read than BBT. It would make some semblance of sense to have those reads possibly reversed on a “Reading DGB as Town anyway” basis but not as presented here.

And Peregrine flipping scum would lead me to also to looking at Maria. Look through his ISO and search for Maverick or Maria. Here’s the only thing he said about Maverick or Maria before the above reads list -

Null
…
8. Maverick1102- posted something I didnt love or hate

That is the full extent of his interaction with the slot. If there is someone Peregrine is looking to smuggle as a bus / distance from a Partner on his reads list it is Maria.

--

r u bad town or bad scum i gotta know

Nope you don’t get to play this game with me. We both know you as scum love to float along basically active lurking ...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66039

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65515

So I have to decide whether you are ballsy enough to pretend otherwise right to my face.

Probably are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Magna

Don't mind me

Also DW his mislynch written all over him I don't think he's ever gonna be a good vote.

Yeah so I have to decide if you are indeed White-Knighting scum with this "Dwlee is a mislynch" post or just clueless Town.

Because Dwlee isn't an easy mislynch ever.

So are you indeed trying to protect what you incorrectly perceive to be a weaker player for "correct Town read" points? Or Town who doesn't have a clue about Dwlee and thus has a superficial understanding of his play?

Peregrine flips scum today and I'm strongly leaning the former given my scum-read on Maverick.

[MagnaofIllusion]

the last Magna posts are starting to making me doubt my townread on him

Yawn.

Plus his argument about how Peregrine had you as null and DGB as scum is weaksause. He had you as null, not as town, and his readlist is clearly player number ordered, not read strength ordered. And given he had you as null I'd find it likely he missed your claim altogether anyway. Yet Magna presents it like it's the super damning argument of the century.

You manage to dodge the whole point of that analysis with style Wisdom. Why dodge the salient point – that there is no reason to have BBT as Null and DGB as Scum from a Town point of view Wisdom?

I mean, if you want to throw around insults about lack of solid reasoning I can call your statement stupid if that’s the way you wish to proceed.

he doesnt, no. maybe it's bussing, given he's already looking for buddies. idk, the posts just felt off.

This is so derp it is painful to read. If Pere is scum then I’d have chosen to bus Hebi as opposed to taking the easy route and just helping to wagon YAR when it was the dominant wagon. I mean engage your brain for once Wisdom.

--

Really? I'd love to hear it.

Vote: Cakez

This would be a vote for Peregrine if he wasn’t already at L-1 (ok, trusting Xkfyu's ability to do math on that here).

@Pere

– claim in your next post or get hammered without a claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

How is it not? Null doesn't mean town. It doesn't mean he believed or even acknowledged BBT's claim. Therefore why can't he have DGB as scum?

Again - engage your brain. If he doesn't believe BBT's claim why would he be Null? How does he not believe BBT is telling the truth about his claim and not think BBT's scum? It makes no sense to approach it from that perspective as Town. The only way DGB gets into a scum pile is if he thinks BBT is scum covering for him if Pere was Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

or if he missed BBT's claim, which is totally believable for a lurker who has barely done anything

Maybe mind beams from Mars affected his memory about it also. Don't forget that possibility.

I mean you are bending over backwards to defend Pere's placement of players on his reads list while calling him scum. Why is that?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Because your post is shallow as fuck

No shallow as fuck would be your ISO.

But nothing more is to be gained from this back and forth.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am but it started today.

Something struck me and I need dgb to care enough to awnser a question.
Dgb: does moi play this game remind you of Princess Bride? The push on Max reminded me of the push on DGB that game.

Then try to lynch me then.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Daryl Dixon

Oh, you wanted flavor with that? Daryl Dixon.

Want some fries too?

Forgot your buddy used that safe-claim already I see.

VOTE: Peregrine

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok so I did some VCA work overnight. Need to drop in Mollie as Town and I'll get you the summary of my results shortly.

I can say that on re-read I feel less like I want to vote Kuroi or Catdog based on Pere's posting Day 1 and Day 2.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EDT today until Monday morning for normal weekend duties.

So I ran the first three days lynches through the MoIputer and came up with the following tiers of players, most suspect to least suspect in descending Tier order.

Tier 1 – Wisdom, Maria
Tier 2 – Kuroi, Basic, Sir Cakez, DGB, YAR
Tier 3 – Dwlee, Xkfyu
Tier 4 – BBT, Farside

Don’t ask me to explain in detail how I do it. I’m not going to bother. I don’t expect you to see the end product and just follow along anyway.

That said based on Pere’s pushes on Kuroi and Catdog / Dwlee Days 1 and 2 I don’t feel like pushing either of them today. No matter how stupid Kuroi’s posting at the end of yesterday was.

So combining the MoIputer with my reads yesterday I’m going to start here –

VOTE: MariaR

The slot was off both scum lynch wagons. Maverick’s fade out and replacement I certainly can see from Newb scum who got heat Day 1. Enough for the start of today until I have time to really dig into her ISO and both scum’s looking for associations beyond what I pointed out yesterday about her placement in Pere’s reads list.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmmmm, MoI, you put SirCakez as to the tier next to scummiest. Do you think he bussed his partner?

No that ranking is 100% solely on where the VCA analysis puts them. I don't think Cakez is scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmmmm, MoI, you put SirCakez as to the tier next to scummiest. Do you think he bussed his partner?

To further clarify - the MoIputer puts Wisdom and Maria just on VCA as the best bets for scum, with Tier 2 as the next most likely place.

For sake of clarity I think we only have 2 more scum left. Both Pere and Hebi flipped powerful Roles. Especially in context of the claimed / flipped roles of Town. Bodyguard is effectively a 1 Shot role if it is used correctly. 2-Shot Doctor. Claimed 1 Shot Gunsmith. Whatever role Cakez has. I very, very much doubt that scum started with a 5 man team given the Mafia roles we've seen flipped even if the rest were Goons.

So among those Tiers I hope to find the last two scum. So there are going to be Town in those Tiers also. Casualty of having more Town than scum to start and scum already being 2 bodies down.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm hoping people look into and follow me on a Maria lynch personally ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yoy have no reason to scumread me and until you say why I will assume you're just saying bs after bs

I've already said several things - your lack of appearance on both scum lynches and the play of your predecessor that I found scummy. And your magical placement on Pere's claimed scum list. But don't worry - when back from V/LA I'll have time to really dig into your ISO.

This smells of "Caught for the wrong reasons" TBH.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wait so I'm scum for scum putting me on there scum...WAT SHOULDN'T THAT BE THE OPPISATE

Nope. Peregrine never interacted with your slot at all. He placed Maverick in a Null state in his first reads list. Then, after making not a single comment on scummy behavior from you suddenly you appear in his scum list. And no push to even vote you ever. Trademark weak distancing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I already debunked your "lack of being on the wagon" bs

Nope you’ve made excuses. For example your claim that you were “a strong supporter of the wagon” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny –

Your first direct reference to Peregrine is 1999 where you say the following –

I want to vote Pere for having the worst reads list yet a lot of it feels half assed like he's barely reading

That’s certainly not a smoking gun of calling him scum. In fact it’s fencesitting 101.

And you effectively soft-defend him by attacking Max for his Peregrine vote in 1737

And further we get this …

If you skipped pages nevermind then that makes sense for the reads then but a tldr is a lot of focus on shifting to Kuro Wis Max and Mollie with Farside going all detective of everyone and a mini ank wagon started but that's over with

Again no suspicion of Pere at all.

Max lynch gives us more info then Pere imo that's why i'm lynching it both are good ones

And this … soft-distancing (calling Pere a good wagon but pushing Maxous that day).

And your vote on Pere? It comes at 2278 after SirCakez has already claimed. And you unvote at 2294 with not a single post by Peregrine between them. No mention of waiting for a claim to be found in your ISO.

And you spent the rest of the day talking about how you wanted to power-lynch BBT if Pere flipped scum despite the fact that Pere had already shown to be scum for his blown safe-claim.

So your ISO is a lot of “hey, he’s sorta scum, nevermind, oh a Guilty I’ll vote that, nevermind unvote” which doesn’t look like strong support for Pere to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What part of as scum I would of joined the Pere wagon do you not understand?

Probably the part where you did hop on and then hopped off immediately hoping his claim would save him, perhaps?

[MagnaofIllusion]

The one you should be looking at in this list is Kuro and Basic

I get the sense this comment is 100% driven by Kuroi already having pressure today and prior days and likewise people indicating Basic would be a good lynch too.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm thinking the last scum are moi and Kuroi.
The whole thing with MoI push cakez has pretty crappy

Then lynch me. Frankly your routine is boring farside.

Which is another reason why I'm happy with my Maria vote. Town is in a good position as it stands - 5 people dead and 40% of them scum. A stupid decision to mislynch me isn't going to kill Town. But Maria put on a display of pure desperation there which I think is much more likely to come from scum who already is behind the 8ball with two powerful roles dead. Losing a third member would set them up for what is probably a very nasty PoE deathmarch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

because his Maria push is fake as fuck. Has been since yesterday.

Hi. Don't forget to lynch this after I flip Town. Especially in light of Mollie's constant requests for such as she was heavily scum reading Wisdom.

Not claiming - feel free to hammer at will. Amazingly I go V/LA and a quick-wagon appears. Scum definitely on this wagon.

Lynch MariaR / Wisdom / Basic first.

If that doesn't find the last two scum lynch Farside / YAR / DGB

[MagnaofIllusion]

no she wasnt, she was going back and forth
Not to mention that the exact same can be said about you

Nope she was. Pretend it didn't happen all you want. The remaining Town can look at her ISO and see the repeated requests to not let you get away with staying alive after she died.

[MagnaofIllusion]

she wasnt as sure towards the end
anyway besides the point, magna's flailing

Yeah, come on ... someone hammer so Wisdom can eat rope all the sooner.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is serious.
He pushed max.
Didn't push Pere.
Asked for a claim from sir.
And just all in all reminds me of his scum game.

Now you explain

For future reference if you aren't scum Farside - this is pretty bad.

I pushed the hebi lynch more than any other player. And further - what pushing of Pere did you think I should have done given he was completely absent from the thread, I threatened him with a claimless hammer if he didn't claim and when he did claim I made sure his slip on the safe-claim doomed him when no-one else spotted it.

I never asked for Cakez to claim and that you keep repeating it is terrible.

Finally - get over the Max lynch. He was a perfectly reasonable lynch Day 2 and pretending it wasn't is also pretty bad.

Actually typing this I hope you are scum because otherwise ... I expect better of you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

meh Mag doesn't have any reason to sr me so I blame him 100% if he flips town can't be my fault at all not at all

This is scum posting right here ... can't be more blatant than this.

[MagnaofIllusion]

i mean theres no way town doesnt see maria is town today
and the "scumread" on me is out of nowhere based on "vca" that is not even in the thread

Nope. My scumread on you came from yesterday when you went balls to the wall defending MariaR.

But continue your shitposting Wisdom .. it will make lynching you in future days even easier.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: xkfyu

VOTE: Wisdom

Scum abandoning the wagon after the tiniest bit of scrutiny their way.

MariaR is still scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I think magna is town
Why wouldnt he fakeclaim something? They have fakeclaims

Even better.
Why would town magna through in the towel and give reads that make no sense.

Should I point out that during the max push he had a scum lean on Pere he never pushed too?

Let me know.

Remind me who you were voting Day 2 again?

Oh that's right it was Kuroi not Pere correct?

I think it was. So are you scum for having a claimed scum read on Pere you didn't push?

[MagnaofIllusion]

When I get back to a computer I am going to quote ALL the Day 2 posts of farside showing her not pushing Pere and dropping votes on Ank and Basic and Kurio all day long because simply quoting where you vote was at the very end is deceptive as hell.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside pretending that OMGUS isn't a meaningless buzzword and trying to divert from his deceptive posting is bad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Still meaningless buzzword .

True story.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You should also ask moi when he stared doing vCa.
He didn't do it
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
I'm sure I'll fine more.
I had a feeling it's not something he uses to scum hunt.
Ever.

And this goes to show you that Farside isn't actually looking for the truth but looking to find facts that support her stated worldview.

She's pointing to this game as if it proves I didn't do the MoiPuter as Town. However she didn't bother to look at my Neighborhood (I was a Neighborizor). You can see in -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

at post 90 I show the MoIputer results. Low and behold the top result was Lowell scum who I went on to lynch the next day.

I can find more examples as needed when I have better access.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You should also ask moi when he stared doing vCa.
He didn't do it
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
I'm sure I'll fine more.
I had a feeling it's not something he uses to scum hunt.
Ever.

And this goes to show you that Farside isn't actually looking for the truth but looking to find facts that support her stated worldview.

She's pointing to this game as if it proves I didn't do the MoiPuter as Town. However she didn't bother to look at my Neighborhood (I was a Neighborizor). You can see in -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

at post 90 I show the MoIputer results. Low and behold the top result was Lowell scum who I went on to lynch the next day.

I can find more examples as needed when I have better access.

I saw you do it as scum, do I need to pull the link there?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66833

That game you did it to save your scum buddy pre flip.
I think it was magnificent play that no one caught you saying you scum read the spot but never vote him
That's like magic or some junk.

Oh look it's what I said you did with Pere this game.

Magic!

Nice move the goalpost there Far.

In your original post you claimed I never do this as town. And then posted a link to a game where I actually did it as town. My response was to show you you were wrong I do it as town and actually did it in the game you claimed I didn't. Now you go to "oh you do as scum also". I do which means it is not alignment indicative as you were attempting to portray.

So once again you're just trying to find things you think you can show our scummy as opposed to honestly looking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

does that fix the "moiputer" Magna?

Yeah a mod error in the vote counts certainly changes the outcome of my calculations. I'll have to revise on Monday when I get back to my computer.

My question to you is why the fuck would you vote for me for pointing out Farside's out right lie about inspirational mafia and me never using VCA as town?

Unless you think out right fabrication is totally town and I shouldn't point out her doing it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You should also ask moi when he stared doing vCa.
He didn't do it
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
I'm sure I'll fine more.
I had a feeling it's not something he uses to scum hunt.
Ever.

And this goes to show you that Farside isn't actually looking for the truth but looking to find facts that support her stated worldview.

She's pointing to this game as if it proves I didn't do the MoiPuter as Town. However she didn't bother to look at my Neighborhood (I was a Neighborizor). You can see in -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

at post 90 I show the MoIputer results. Low and behold the top result was Lowell scum who I went on to lynch the next day.

I can find more examples as needed when I have better access.

I saw you do it as scum, do I need to pull the link there?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66833

That game you did it to save your scum buddy pre flip.
I think it was magnificent play that no one caught you saying you scum read the spot but never vote him
That's like magic or some junk.

Oh look it's what I said you did with Pere this game.

Magic!

Nice move the goalpost there Far.

In your original post you claimed I never do this as town. And then posted a link to a game where I actually did it as town. My response was to show you you were wrong I do it as town and actually did it in the game you claimed I didn't. Now you go to "oh you do as scum also". I do which means it is not alignment indicative as you were attempting to portray.

So once again you're just trying to find things you think you can show our scummy as opposed to honestly looking.

Oh hey you missed the vast difference between that time and this and how much more analysisingredients of why those vCa moments were scummy.
I'm just saying you do it as scum but, and I say this with love and respect, you town game is 10x more anatilitical then it is here.

Now move on with the omgus attitude. Why don't you share with the class when you were lynched and flipped town.

Yawn. Just repeating that there were vast differences when there are not doesn't make it true.

Appeal to repetition at its finest. Again I hope you are scum this game because if you are town this is just downright sad.

[MagnaofIllusion]

My question to you is why the fuck would you vote for me for pointing out Farside's out right lie about inspirational mafia and me never using VCA as town?

because farside is town and you focusing on trying to deflect her via omgus instead of a million other things you should be doing feels like bullshit

Showing her push on me is fabricated isnt vote worthy and if you don't understand that go ahead and vote me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EDT today until Monday morning for normal weekend duties.

So I ran the first three days lynches through the MoIputer and came up with the following tiers of players, most suspect to least suspect in descending Tier order.

Tier 1 – Wisdom, Maria
Tier 2 – Kuroi, Basic, Sir Cakez, DGB, YAR
Tier 3 – Dwlee, Xkfyu
Tier 4 – BBT, Farside

Don’t ask me to explain in detail how I do it. I’m not going to bother. I don’t expect you to see the end product and just follow along anyway.

That said based on Pere’s pushes on Kuroi and Catdog / Dwlee Days 1 and 2 I don’t feel like pushing either of them today. No matter how stupid Kuroi’s posting at the end of yesterday was.

So combining the MoIputer with my reads yesterday I’m going to start here –

VOTE: MariaR

The slot was off both scum lynch wagons. Maverick’s fade out and replacement I certainly can see from Newb scum who got heat Day 1. Enough for the start of today until I have time to really dig into her ISO and both scum’s looking for associations beyond what I pointed out yesterday about her placement in Pere’s reads list.

because his Maria push is fake as fuck. Has been since yesterday.

Hi. Don't forget to lynch this after I flip Town. Especially in light of Mollie's constant requests for such as she was heavily scum reading Wisdom.

Not claiming - feel free to hammer at will. Amazingly I go V/LA and a quick-wagon appears. Scum definitely on this wagon.

Lynch MariaR / Wisdom / Basic first.

If that doesn't find the last two scum lynch Farside / YAR / DGB

First and foremost mollie was also scum reading Kuroi, which MOI neglects to mention, but the post MOI makes about VCA is just one post and then he has groups that he hasn't explained for any reason at all.
Also if you look at the first post of tiers it has kuroi's name but by the second post it magically disappears as an option.

If you look at the game MOI linked you will see the following:

he explains why he thinks lowell vote is scummy
he discusses exchanges that bother him and why

In short none of this is happening in this game.

Oh you mean all the stuff I said I would do when I actually can be at a computer when I'm back from VLA? Seriously this is pathetic far side.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hows that V/LA going anyways MOI?



I'll point out the push on Sir Cakez next if you want.
And the question you never responded to that I asked.

Phone posting while I'm in the car driving with my family but cute of you to try to present to the scummy.

I also like that you point out the bolded with that I'm not going to explain the VCA mechanics as why I'm not going to explain why Maria is scummy. I mean it's actually completely incorrect but so is your assertion that I never use the VCA town that you then go post move to say oh it's a different situation.

Keep moving the goalposts and misrepresenting in your attempt to get this Mislynch far side.

[MagnaofIllusion]

like, i literally typed a vote and deleted it
get it together or i *will* vote you

Then vote me. My flip provides further evidence of who needs to get lynched.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok back from V/LA –

First order of business was revising the MoiPuter outputs for the “Mod Oops” on not counting Wisdom’s Peregrine vote. The revised vote-count would knocks MOHIS from voting Peregrine and adds Wisdom. Also fun fact – when revising my number I didn’t list MOHIS in my tiers at all the first time. Seems like all the players supposedly scum-reading me would have noticed that and pointed that out. Maybe I missed them doing so in my phone reading this weekend but I doubt it.

In an event the new tiers (with a fifth Tier since the changes sits Scumbag Maria all by herself at the top of the heap with the worst voting profile in the game) –

Tier 1 – MariaR
Tier2 – Kuroi, Basic, MOHIS
Tier 3 – Wisdom, Sir Cakez, DGB, YAR
Tier 4 – Dwlee, Xkfyu
Tier 5 – BBT, Farside.

Again for those of you who can’t understand pure VCA Tiers – these are solely the results of crunching the stats in the MoIputer and don’t reflect my in thread reads.

--

VOTE: MariaR

Still scum. I mean look at the following posts and tell me this comes from Town –

I'm prob chainsaw lynching xk and Moi regardless of flips

At the point she posted this myself and xkfyu are by far the most likely lynches to go through. And MariaR basically says “I’m voting here regardless of flips”. Which means someone else flips scum and she isn’t revising her mindset at all.

I mean, she could just be VI level bad Town but I try to not label people I’ve never played before with that label until they’ve proven in multiple games that the tag applies.

meh Mag doesn't have any reason to sr me so I blame him 100% if he flips town can't be my fault at all not at all

And this is absolutely a scum mind-set. Setting the stage for abdication of any responsibility with a Town me flip. And despite Farside and MariaR’s ranting that is exactly what would happen.

--

Finally all I will say on the “MoI is scum from single game meta” – laughable. I mean SnarkySnowman levels of terrible.

Have some other games to catch up as well. Back to muddle through the weekend’s spamfest and see if anything of import is hidden in Farside’s herp-a-derp posting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The fact is that there's no way Xk doesn't shoot anyone in three nights as 1-shot and his excuses are bullshit. You can't just unvote him because you think there has to be a vig. Look at his play.

VOTE: Xkfyu

The claim is bad. The excuses for not shooting don't hold up very well. But the most damning thing to me is it is another limited shot Town claimed Role. Look at the scum flips - both full roles. Town at this stage is criminally under-powered. The 1-Shot Element of the Vig claim seems to be tailored to explaining the lack of multiple deaths that a full Vig claim would not be easily able to explain away.

Finally I looked through Xk's ISO and there isn't any drive to actually find scum in there. Day 1 was pushing on YAW and working against the Hebi lynch as much as possible which got dropped. Day 2 was attacking SirCakez (for his Catdog slot interactions) and a quick dalliance with MariaR. Why no interest in those off the Hebi wagon at all Xk? You could have spent Day 2 really pushing that angle and shooting Night 2 on your best bet. Town was certainly in position to withstand misfire.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok I realize I've been unreasonable. His claim is testable.

We will make Xkfyu shoot someone tonight, and if this someone doesn't die, he's scum and he dies tomorrow.

How does that sound?

Flawed given that if the target is Town and no other deaths occur overnight you have no confirmation he isn't just scum who used the Mafia NK to "prove" his role.

Now if we get two deaths - sure he's proven. But I want to know your course of action if the target gets killed and no other deaths occur given the already flipped Town Protection roles.

[MagnaofIllusion]

we'd still be forcing scum to kill who we want, so win win

That doesn't answer the question - do you lynch Xk then? Because sure scum would probably not play a WIFOM game and not kill that Night to incriminate him given the scum already down but it isn't assured.

[MagnaofIllusion]

it's still favorable if they nokill

He wont be clear if only one kill happens, but scum have to change their schedule and shoot outside who they want to shoot or no-shoot for it to happen, so it's worth it

VOTE: MariaR

Ok. Have it your way.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Anyone else care to cast their vote right now for who they want me to shoot?

Depends on who gets lynched. If I end up getting lynched I'll leave my first choice in my last post.

If Maria gets lynched and is scum I'd choose Basic or Wisdom.
If Maria gets lynched and is Town I'd say me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Right now, it's between Maria and Basic.

If I get lynched don't forget Wisdom. My Town flip will confirm the what I'm saying is from a Town perspective but his play today surrounding me is very, very forced.

He started the Day pushing me for calling Maria scum.
Then when the wagon got taken over by Farside he abandoned ship to hardcore defend me.
Then when the heat comes back on Maria he's back to me as scum.

His play today very much looks like a Maria partner - went on a chainsaw rampage early and then when the wagon was nice and established hopped off to defend for "Town credit" for having a correct read on me later. He at one point today "toyed" with that he was mis-reading Maria but has quickly moved away from that and is back to lynching me when Maria becomes viable.

All this assumes you are actually Town of course Xk ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Your vote log tier shit is stupid because no mafia would ever allow themself to even be i that tier you're not even trying to counter my facts I put against you and are just being stubborn and ignoring them @Moi

See that's where you are wrong. In fact Farside quoted the exact game where that happened recently in trying to say I don't use the MoiPuter as Town -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=66239

Post 90.

Interestingly enough running MoIputer with Shea as Town gives the following suspicion groups

<Lowell>
Empty Space
<Aristoph>
<Untrod>
<KMD, Creature, Snarky>

Literally Lowell is almost an order of magnitude worse than Arist in the revised MoiPuter.

Lowell scum lynched the day after I posted this at Night.

I can't say for absolute certainty you are scum. Only the Mod can.

However I can say your handwaving here is wrong and makes me happy with my vote.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What part of as scum I would of joined the Pere wagon do you not understand?

Probably the part where you did hop on and then hopped off immediately hoping his claim would save him, perhaps?

Why would I take that risk when 1) Pere was already a top lynch choice before Cake outted a report and 2 I never defended him about it I never said Pere is prob town! As scum I would either try to hardcore defend him or just get on the wagon not some shitty inbetween that's the worst outcome I could possibly do because as scum I can either defend myself with A) I was on the wagon also so can't be me! or B) Why would I hard defend my partner!
I can't do either of those now can I

If I'm scum I'm in a really bad spot clearly right? So taking risks would be really bad for me the only expense of a risk I can do is if I am townread by a town of people I'm very low on everyone's totem pole in fact the only people who tr is Farside I am no place to put more heat on myself as scum

So your defense is that your play is so bad you can't be scum?

Sorry child but scum play not optimally all the time. It's how you get caught.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Answer me this Pere my scum buddy gets caught in a guilty claim and I am openly off the wagon why?

This has been gone over to death.

Perhaps with a Ninja already flipped you thought his claim would save him. Until I caught his blown Safe-claim goof it looked like that might happen. Frankly I can't tell you why you did that.

Answer me this - why, if I am scum, do I lead the lynch on my Ninja partner and then blow up my Tracker partner's only chance at warding off the Guilty that was only 85% guilty?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Going over "saves" when it would almost get a cc is really stupid

No, pretending that your defense of "I'd do better as scum" is meaningful is stupid.

I mean, if your Town play is that bad why should your scum play be a masterpiece again ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: Xkfyu

[MagnaofIllusion]

Do you think I called out my partners Tracker BS just as a question (I didn't think of it at first) but his claim would have been stupid because of the doctor death you prob knew that though

See this is where I have to think you aren't paying attention.

A scum Ninja flipped Day 1. That means that there should be some expectation that Town has at least 1 role that that Ninja can avoid for balance reasons. Not certain but usually reasonable.

So Pere claiming Tracker - one of the two most likely roles to occupy that position - makes absolute sense for Town to possibly back off from lynching him unless he is directly counter-claimed. And that never happened since he mangled his safe-claim so badly.

But you just assume someone claiming Tracker would obviously be Mafia since Ank died N2. Never-mind that the originally floated RoleCop theory still made perfect sense.

I mean ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

What I'm getting from all this silliness is that Kuroi and Maria aren't likely to be Xk's remaining buddy. Scum are more likely to react to your claim like Magna did because they know Xk is doomed. I think it's Magna.

Cool and once I flip Town a reminder that Wisdom needs to be dead before LYLO. As he said we should have the lunches to spare easily.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yup. Except you bailed on Hebi and then said "I wouldn't abandon as a partner" so you really didn't push Hebi did you?

Not sure why you are worried. As you said Town should have plenty of lynches to spare ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nope but continue to be over-anxious about even the notion that you will not cruise to endgame.

Starting to remind me of Soccer Spirits ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I'll posting my thoughts probably tomorrow. Work deadlines are in the way today.

Anyone want to claim either of the kills as a Vig?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm betting sk over vig.
I need to check something

I find it very hard to believe there is a Serial Killer in this game given the Night 1 - 3 death tolls ...

Unless there is a metric fuckton of hidden Town protective power out there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I mean ... it is a small outside possibility that Wisdom hit a PGO ... but that means the Mafia chose to kill Kuroi over BBT / Cakez.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Nah, I believe Magna also doubts my claim.

Not at this point given the scum Power flips and what we have seen so far on the Town power flips.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I feel even better about my manga vote then.

Then you have little understanding about how absurdly overpowered the currently dead scum roles are in comparison to the flipped Town roles even considering the claimed Town roles.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What are you trying to say you're a pr that balances out this "overpowered scum"

No. Dear god are you thick. I'm saying that given everything we know currently there is little reason to doubt that claim from BBT.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I doubted a 1 shot GS claim
I don't doubt an odd night GS claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So let’s start with the players who I’m not even going to glance at in my review of the three Dead scum because they are overwhelmingly likely to be Town.

Sir Cakez – claims via un-outed role have netted two scum who might have otherwise lived a significant time longer.

BBT – Like Cakez his claim is pretty much bulletproof at this stage.

Dwlee and DGB – Both their play has been sub-par but being Gunsmith clears means the likelihood that either are scum is very remote at this stage. Scum has too much flipped power for this to be a 5 man team and either being a Traitor meant that the game would either have already ended with Xk’s lynch or they got “recruited” N1 which doesn’t match with BBT’s claimed investigations. Mafia Doctor is still an outside shot. If either are in a 3 man LYLO then yeah, maybe look there. Not before.

Young and Witless – While playing up to their role-name Day 1 says that they are probably Town. Especially since SirCakez is Town, YAW had stronger pressure early than Hebi, and YAW’s role via basic set-up understanding says that any scum role YAW might have has less value than a Ninja so Hebi wouldn’t have been sacrificed to save YAW.

So that’s 5 of the 9 more or less cleared.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So looking at dead scum’s interactions with the “Gang of 4” (MariaR, Basic, Farside, MOHIS) –

Hebichan

–

General Reads lists

–

town- magna, bunch of letters starting with X
null- PV, cakez, other head, IPS
scum- Pirate Mollie, beeboy, Kuroi,

currently where my head is at.

Peregrine and XK both make the list, one as Town one as Null. All the scum list are flipped Town. Basic and MariaR are more likely their buddy than MOHIS or Farside given their specific exclusion.

YAW
Maxous
PirateMollie

Town
Wisdom
Farside
PV
XKfyu
Catdog
BBT

Townlead
kuroi
sircakez
ankamius

scumlean
otherhead

null
basic

Basic is not listed as Null and MariaR’s slot is still no-where to be seen. The fact that both Xk and Peregrine are now Town reads means farside is less likely to be scum also.

--

MOHIS – minor “hey buddy” post interactions at 20 and 22. Defends MOHIS from Peregrine (his partner’s) “AtE is scummy” early attack at 122 which no coincidently shows that Cakez is not a partner. 133 is also not a post I think Hebi made towards a partner.

Farside – Hebi defends herself to Farside at 732.

No interactions with Basic or MariaR’s slot at all.

--

Based on Hebi I’d say MariaR or Basic make the absolutely the most sense as partners. No interactions from Hebi to either slot. The early back and forth between MOHIS and Hebi doesn’t look like scum given how chummy Hebi was trying to be with Firebringer. And while there is minimal Farside interactions the one she did have doesn’t look like Scum-Scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So looking at dead scum’s interactions with the “Gang of 4” (MariaR, Basic, Farside, MOHIS) –

PeregrineV

–

General Reads lists

–

Townlean
14. TiphaineDeath (strongest)- I like thier posting
3. Ankamius beeboy- feels town (ank posts)
12. Young and Witless(Creature/Something_Smart hydra)- trying to figure people out

Null
1. BlueBloodedToffee- I have nothing on. They seem to be tunneling, but meh,
2. SirCakez- nope
4. KuroiXHF- made some readble posts, but not memeorable
6. farside22 Iprobablysuck- just got here. wow me
7. hebichan- about the same as most
8. Maverick1102- posted something I didnt love or hate
9. DrippingGoofball- Hasnt posted enough
13. MagnaofIllusion- Hasnt posted enough
16. Xkfyu- posted something I didnt love or hate
17. Wisdom- Hasnt posted enough
18. Maxous-posted something I didnt love or hate

scumlean
5. pirate mollie- Acted liek there was something there, but then hasn't since, slight
10. My Other Head Is Scum(Firebringer/Vedith hydra)*- early ATE, but slight at best

Town reads Basic’s slot despite having no interaction with them in his ISO previous to this post. No reasoning for why farside is Null other than “replacement Halo”. MOHIS is scum still despite Peregrine at this point voting someone not on his list at all (Catdog). And Maverick is completely Null.

(+)
3. Ankamius beeboy- no change from before
6. farside22 Iprobablysuck- Like posting, but haven't tried to deconstruct yet
14. Basic TiphaineDeath- Maybe bias, but feels like basic is has sharethink with me
12. Young and Witless(Creature/Something_Smart hydra)-Hebi counterwagon +
13. MagnaofIllusion- disagree but + on the logic presentation

(0)
1. BlueBloodedToffee
2. SirCakez
16. Xkfyu
17. Wisdom
18. Maxous

(-)
4. KuroiXHF- It's complicated
5. pirate mollie- DNME
8. MariaR Maverick1102-
9. DrippingGoofball*- DNME
10. My Other Head Is Scum(Firebringer/Vedith hydra)**- Nothing to improve my opinion from yesterday
15. CatDog(UpTooLate/hiplop hydra)*- Nothing to improve my opinion from yesterday

Already said my piece about how suspect MariaR’s scum read is here given the complete lack of interactions or pointing out of content by that slot when this was posted. Basic continues to be a Town read for questionable reasons. Could go either way but feels like setting the up links to the slot to me which makes me lean Basic less scum partner with Peregrine. MOHIS is still scum that Peregrine isn’t interested in pressing more which is suspect. Farside is now Town. Given how generally Town-read she was at this stage reads to me of making a safe read on her.

--

MOHIS – 121 shows an early push based on AtE being scummy. Implies that Firebringer is scummy for worrying about being Null-read on page 3 of a Large game at 266.

Farside – His agreement with my Iprob vote at 254 could be soft distancing or trying to encourage a push by me on what he perceives to be a weak target. Leaning not partners as it stands currently. Votes the slot at 412 which moves Iprob into a tie with Mollie (4 votes each) and one above Cakez. Don’t think that is likely bussing. Minor response to farside at 2476 about wanting to hear Cakez’s claim before he claimed which makes me lean less likely on farside as a partner.

Basic – responded to Basic’s question about Pere’s “flip” to Kuroi as scum at 1985

MariaR – fluff posting to MariaR at 1989. More fluff response to MariaR at 2001 which piques my interest since it quotes MariaR for saying “Yeah, I want to vote Pere for weak reasons”. Will need to see how that develops in MariaR’s ISO later.

--

Based on Peregrine’s ISO I’d lynch MariaR first hands down. Basic would come next. His MOHIS interactions don’t fall outside the possibility of weak early attempt to bus and then distancing without further development which could be buddies. Still third on my list. And farside looks very, very unlikely.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So looking at dead scum’s interactions with the “Gang of 4” (MariaR, Basic, Farside, MOHIS) –

Xkfyu

–

General Reads lists

–

So, PoE leaves me with PV, farside, Kuroi, Maria, MOHIS, Basic, and YAW

My biggest town read out of those is farside, and I'd be fine with lynching any of the rest. Well, I'd probably would prefer not lynching YAW, but that's solely based on the fact that they were the hebichan counter wagon in D1, and not to do with their play.

So this PoE list of scum includes his partner PV and every member of my target group. Not exceedingly helpful except for the possibly seeing who he did not even look at after this post.

I didn't particularly like how Kuroi just sat on hebichan's wagon all of D1, without saying much except for the stuff at the beginning, and then immediately tried to take full credit for lynching her at the outset of D2.

I can't for the life of me come to a solid read on Maria. Sometimes I'm sure she's scum, and sometimes I'm sure she's town. I'm leaning more town on her than I am the rest of them right now though.

I have never liked trying to read FB, but I don't like the way he is still throwing shade on Mollie.

Basic would be my preferred lynch out of the four (followed by Kuroi). She sat on an empty scum read on me for a very long time and finally put something down, only when I prompted her to do so.

So, in order, my preference would be:
1. Basic
2. Kuroi
3. MOHIS
4. Maria

This post makes me think that Basic stands much less of a chance of being a partner than either of MOHIS or Maria. Specifically because he actually articulates a reason for wanting Basic dead but both MOHIS and Maria are nebulous “heh, I can’t actually read them” presentations.



--

MOHIS – Defends Firebringer’s AtE as Null at 258. Further fluff interactions with MOHIS in the 263 range. Asks why Firebringer shouldn’t be in XK’s PoE at 2478. Gut says this interaction is less likely to be partners. Continues to be puzzled by Fire’s “We are confirmed Town” posts at 3141 despite that being classic Fire shitposting which he should be familiar with given he claims to know Fire AtE shitposts early.

Farside – Minor buddying to farside when she replaced in at 686. Asks farside why XK wasn’t included in farside’s read list in 706. Which I don’t think is very likely to be scum partner interaction.

Basic – Asks Cakez for an opinion on a TD post at 287. Doesn’t seem to follow up on it at all per what I can see in his contirbutions. Questions TD about the what TD feels is a scum-tell in self-conscious play in 512. These both don’t really make me see partner interactions. However his move to Kuroi (Town) over Basic as his preferred lynch at 2490 muddies the waters for me. Another interaction with Basic that doesn’t say partners to me at 3054. And the cross-vote at 3058 strengthens that read.

MariaR – Agrees with some of a Maverick post which attacks Town Mollie at 461. Defends Maverick at 462 from Basic’s slot calling the post XK partially agreed with terrible. Votes MariaR at 1028 for Maria’s AtE self-vote. Backs off almost immediately when MariaR votes him. Soft defense of Wisdom when MariaR calls for him to get “Vigged” at 1133. Further explanation to Maria about why he unvoted her at 1183. 2541 I can see as distancing given Xk knew for certain Pere wasn’t flipping Town. Especially given he didn’t push the issue at all after Day opened. Still says he can’t read Maria at 3072. Switches from Basic to MariaR vote at 3104. This is part of the quick wagon Maria got yesterday that immediately resulted in Wisdom saying “Maria is town for the speed of the wagon”.

--

Maria is the hands down top choice from XK’s ISO. He multiple times states “I can’t read her”. Puts her at the bottom of his “lynch in this order list”. I think both votes he made on her were very, very weak. The first was for her “AtE self-vote” and he immediately unvoted afterwards. The second was part of a flash wagon and given his treatment of Peregrine I can certainly see the similarities.

Basic would be a grudging second but I really think there is enough in their interactions that they probably aren’t partners. His constant need to pick at MOHIS’s “I’m confirmed Town” shitposting also makes me think they aren’t partners.

Not much in the way of interactions with farside. Which makes sense given farside has been super-tunnelling me (and Kuroi) since Day 3. Don’t suspect partners.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: MariaR

If I can I'll put together a summary of her ISO and what I think are the most important take-aways.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So why I think MariaR / Maverick is scum –

Maverick set off early game scumdar for 35. I asked him about this and he never answered but my issue with it is as follows –

Maxous made a real (even if early game) post ascribing scum intent to Iprobably’s play and voted him. Maverick says he likes that post which means if he is Town he thinks it is a reasonable scum-hunting effort. Maverick was RVS voting BBT for not liking his “footy team”.

Why does Maverick not move his vote from RVS shenanigans to an actual scum read (even if early game)? Doesn’t make a ton of sense but it is possible it was from Town.

What amplifies it, for me, is the fact that after I asked him about it at 247 he never responds. He has eight posts after that point and even at 806 acknowledge he has open question before immediately replacing out. The timing of the replace-out makes me think he felt pressure to justify his tunneling on Mollie (who we know was Town) and other questions and decided a replacement halo for his slot might be warranted.

There are several things about Maria’s replace in posting I find suspect also –

1003 and 1007 are altogether too “Hey, I’m so happy to be here and I can’t wait to prove why I’m not scum” AtE style for my tastes.

And the self-vote at 1022 is very suspect given she had a whopping two votes. That’s pulling the plug desperation AtE in the most basic form. If she ends up lynched she has left not trail to her partners. If it does work (and it did work) then she gets a pass for at least a Day or so. It’s completely at odds with her later “Oh, I never said I was in a bad spot” made at 1065. If she didn’t think she was in a bad spot why the self-vote?

1125 – what is the purpose of this post other than to say “I’m going to look scummy but you can’t suspect me it’s how I play”?

I also want to bring attention to the following post she made early Day 2 –

I just did and

that's a fair enough and logical reason to sr my slot no problems I just got to fight harder to get it off

the reason why I made that statement is I like saying my emotions on a plate I do it as either alignment but from what I hear a lot of people dislike fluff and LAMIST posts so I can't help it

I’ve bolded the important point – she directly says that I have a fair and logical reason to scum-read her for Maverick’s play.

Fast forward to this later –

Yoy have no reason to scumread me and until you say why I will assume you're just saying bs after bs

How easily she forgets that she already has said I had a valid reason to scum-read her for Maverick’s play. Now this was in response to my VCA but the point still stands – she only goes on the attack against me after Farside has made it clear she has an ally in suspecting me. When she replaced in? All “Hey, you are reasonable and I’ll work hard to make you change your mind buddy”. This turn is much more likely to come from scum than Town IMO.

Next we have this –

Also why would mafia even kill a 2 shot doctor if it was role cop that doesn't seem very useful with this many people

This is a prime example what looks to me like leveraging of inside knowledge to appear more Town. She as scum knows that Peregrine got a track on Ank that prevented their kill. So when there was “RoleCop” speculation she steps right up and makes this post. Note – she’s the one who spurs Wisdom to consider a Tracker. Given we see later posts where she shows that she has very shallow understanding of balance this looks very much like “information leakage” on her part.

The one you should be looking at in this list is Kuro and Basic

Trying to deflect my suspicion of her for how Peregrine treated her slot re:scum reading them by saying “Kuroi (Town) and Basic (makes less sense as a partner to Hebi / Pere / Xk) are where you should look for scum”.

This is laid out as clearly and susinctly as possible. I have gone into plenty of other reason already – her voting patterns are by far the worst in the game and generally her OMGUS attitude towards people suspecting her combined with her multiple buddying attempts (farside, MOHIS) looks like scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

These are both really BSD
Maria is super obvious town, Wisdom agreed.
Why would Maria NK someone defending her?
And Xkfyu wouldn't spear a counterwagon on his buddy with a claim guaranteed to get him lynched the next day.

Um Cakez kindly go jump in a lake.

Wisdom agreeing really is irrelevant since his Town scum read is me and I know I'm Town. So pointing to him as the reason why Maria is Town is really meaningless to me.

And the "Why would scum Nightkill Wisdom" is WIFOM and Maria herself says that.

Vote me if you want. I've said my peace on who I think the last Mafian is. My flip will show at the minimum it is 100% Town based. You want to ignore it beyond that I can't help.

But please don't quote the post where I vote and ignore the three analysis posts of the dead scum and the analysis of Maria's play with your "this is BS".

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA from now until Monday morning as per usual on the weekend.

If I'm alive after the weekend I'll provide some content but don't plan to do any reading over the weekend. I've already done my share to get town to a win.

As a reminder for those whiny asses who think "Reading is hard" -

Don't lynch any of Cakez / BBT / DGB / Dwlee until 3 player LYLO in which case if one is still lurking around maybe re-examine everything and figure out what went wrong via all the rest of the flips. Lynch YAW only as a last resort before any of the first four.

Lynch the rest in the following order - MariaR, Basic, MOHIS, Farside

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not looking at the analysis of old scum play because stuff that happened yesterday will be a hell of a lot more accurate then stuff from weeks ago, when the scum still had a fullish team and much more room to set up distancing and WIFOM.

Then you are a bad Town player if you think Day 1 is less relevant than yesterday. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Quick phone post with two things I think are are cogent to this page.

1. Everyone should pull up MariaR's ISO and read what she claims are interactions to judge for themselves if they look like Town actually scum-hunting regarding all Pere and Xk. I'd say the same for Hebi but her slot had zero interactions with that lynched scum.

2. Look at her latest string of spam. Maria is absolutely losing her mind of two measly votes. I'm at L-2 and content that if I get lynched today I still have a solid chance to win by leaving my thoughts and scum-hunting for others to review. She is in a froth as if her being lynched dooms her team's chances of victory. Ruminate on that for a bit.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You and moi avoid voting each other like it's a page, fact.

And in this thread Farside speculates that the game we are playing is began the game 13-5 or 12-5-1 if she is still pretending a Serial Killer makes any sense with the scum Power roles (Ninja / Tracker / 1Shot Strongman) we know about.



I mean that's the only possible takeawy from somehow pretending that me not voting Basic is an indication that we are partners.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hey DGB I'm refusing to claim ...

You know what you have to do!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh look - two more derp votes from Dwlee and MOHIS. Both bad, but given the players that's to be expected.

Totally Town here. Everyone on my wagon should be either lynched (Maria for example quickly) or ignored as far as reads go. Except for Cakez because he's actually caught scum with his Night actions.

Vanilla Town (Carol something, phone posting so not bothering to look) which is obviously why I didn't claim. No ProTown reason for me to and players like DGB and Farside should have instinctively understood that when I refused to claim. Scum have been more than willing to fake-claim this game. Derps all around to anyone who didn't realize that.

Again - lynch / Vig this group - MariaR first with a bullet given all I have posted on her plus her crap "Oh, I hate to be scumread" stupidity, Basic (who refused to hop on my mislynch which means she might have known it was coming), Farside (because her reads since Day 2 have basically been Kuroi and MoI are scum when we were both Town so she's not helpful even if she is Town), and MOHIS (because their play is generally poor and I don't want them in LYLO even if they are Town).

I eagerly anticipate the Dead Thread and posting all my theories I've been holding on to because it wasn't Pro Town to post them (like what role Cakez has to have for example).

Finally

@Cakez

- if you have actual results that clear my lynch pool share them instead of pulling your "I said so" routine. Your play has been good with Night actions and that's what people will actually listen to.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Inb4 stupid "MoI is Twilight Trolling" from players like Farside. My flip will make those sorts of comment look even more dumb given that I was pretty clearly Town for being THE driving force on Hebi unlike Maria actually been on Scum lynches.

[MagnaofIllusion]

If MoI is town srsly he's one of the worst I've seen

This clearly should be hung ASAP.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What do you think of dgb 180 degree turn on you this game day moi?

I think given that BBT's claim the odds of DGB being scum are small and she's not getting lynched until 3 person LYLO anyway so your question is pretty pointless.

Especially since you stand a stronger chance of being scum than her for three solid days of tunneling on two Town (Kuroi and I ).while throwing shade at players who played a bigger role in lynching Hebi than you did.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After calling me scum for pushing a reasonable lynch on Max ( sorry but it was ) you don't get to claim the high ground once I flip Farside.

I know that eats at you ... But oh well.

And I guess you can be scum so in that case it wasn't bad play so I can't knock it if you are.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yawn. At least I didn't rely on a single game of meta as reasonable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

To repeat lynch Maria, farside, Basic and Mohis and game probably is won for Town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

As a VT name claiming is pointless when scum have proven fake claims Basic.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Thanks for the game Radja!

Thought later when I have more time ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

So now that I have a few moments I can summarize my thoughts on the game …

I’m glad Town won. Nothing personal to the scum team but I don’t think overall you played a better game than Town. The fact that YAW and Hebi both were nailed Day 1 (although YAW was let off the hook til the end by myself and others due to bad parsing of the set-up) and that both Peregrine and XK had people gunning for them from Day 2 on shows that. YAW did make the most of his pass and almost pulled it out which was well done but I don’t think that means scum outplayed Town overall.

SirCakez in my mind was the Town MVP. He made a good shot on Peregrine and made sure that the lynch went through afterwards. I also can’t complain about the Kuroi shot as it was reasonable from Sir Cakez’s perspective. And he made sure Xk got the rope also.

I think BBT, Ank, Mollie, and Wisdom played very solid games for Town and were helpful to the long term chances of victory.

DGB was the one lynch I think probably could have been avoided. It was absolutely clear from the thread that Peregrine had been protected so a Mafia Doctor was a certainty and the odds of a Neighbor Doctor was so small as to be negligible.

@Radja

– I think the set-up overall was pretty fair. I personally bit on the WIFOM of the Ninja versus the Doctor pretty hard and couldn’t get away from it until seeing the whole picture in the Dead PT. I think probably the scum Tracker should have been maybe 2 shot given how many Town roles were limited but that’s a very small nitpick. Your modding was smooth and you had very few errors. Quality work!