Micro 71: Lucid Dreamers - Night 4

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Ohcrap.

I'M HERE!

PLEASE DON'T REPLACE ME!!!!

Um, so yeah, going to work things out now.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, I can't really tell much.

Piggy has a eensy weensy townread from me, so can't take that wagon.

Don't really support the whole empking wagon.

VOTE: Mist7676

For trying to derail a wagon that could have gotten us information. Sure it will crash and burn, but it's already going so maybe stop trying to crash it?

I think I'm developing a dislike for catchup posts...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Derailing a wagon is in no way what I was doing. I might not have been contributing to it, but that is nowhere near the same thing as derailing it.

PEdit: I don't like that sort of unvote so you can vote shenanigans.

Um, I think we could potentially all do useless and confirmable actions at night, to prevent scum from doing anything except one of those useless yet confirmable actions.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Mit, I can take a LONG time to actually post stuff. I put it in, got the PEdit, then hummed and hawed about actually posting it.

The point of the useless yet confirmable actions is not to find scum. It is to make scum have no night action because they must submit a useless yet confirmable action or be outed as scum, assuming the plan is followed.

Although you do have a point about scum using each other to confirm. Meh.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, here's a proper plan.

We all neighbourise in a circle. The circle shouldn't be popcorned. If scum tries anything, they will be revealed as not a neighbour to the next player.

I think it can't be broken so long as the scum are kept away from each other, as any interference will reveal them. So, worst case scenario they don't follow it at all, scum kills several random other guys and we take down the lynch pool a lot.

Say both scum interfere with two townies? They then become also not confirmed

If scum doesn't do anything and goes with the plan, which is the desired result, then it basically becomes a nightless game...

Hmm, it doesn't really work in the long term. But yeah, I'm trying to break the setup into nightless, which is town biased imo.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You debated on posting your comment... only scum ever are unsure if they should post. Humming and hawing about a comment means you were thinking "Oh, maybe I should re-word this so that I don't get scum points"

Caught scum, right here.
VOTE: Siveure

Wow. Do you think I don't realize this is the sort of thing which is very close to a scumtell? If I were trying to re-word it to prevent it coming through as scummy (which I sorta was), do you think I'd leave in the whole P-Edit bit, or even answer the question in that manner?

What it is is I get too perfectionist occasionally.

Also, Mit, yeah, it was just a thought. And it's broken too easily.

PEdit: Emp is correct, yeah. (lol 15 minutes by now?)

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Zoidberg, exactly what are town going to do against three scum? 3:6 is insanely scumsided. That's why it's really unlikely.

PEdit: The plan would make it JUST scumhunting if successful, although it is not going to work for other reasons.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, english IS my first language though, so nope, that argument doesn't work.

If it is anything, it's that communication with other people is not my first language. I occasionally get perfectionist about what I should be saying and take ages to say it.

I'd kindof like mist to say more.

PEdit: Mist is a ninja. Anyway, good.

UNVOTE: Mist7676
VOTE: ScreamLampost

for active lurking, and voting an actual lurker.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

I did not. The call out was for voting an actual lurker (me), not an active lurker. All of your posts prior to that were setup speculation. You felt the need to vote someone for not contributing without having contributed an awful lot yourself.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

I did not. The call out was for voting an actual lurker (me), not an active lurker. All of your posts prior to that were setup speculation. You felt the need to vote someone for not contributing without having contributed an awful lot yourself.

Ummm, you really haven't been a fountain of conversation yourself there SD. Also, I would add that my point still stands. You don't vote someone for voting a lurker when you've just called them a lurker...that would mean that you yourself are guilty of what you're voting somebody for. Your logic is fundamentally flawed.

@ProHawk: Yeah, we're new to the whole Hydra thing. We'll be toning down the schizophrenia as we get more used to this. Apologies.

~M

How is my logic flawed? The push to contribute when you aren't contributing a whole load yourself is, in my very limited experience, scummy.

I'm voting you for being scummy by voting a lurker and active lurking, not for being anti-town by lurking.

Um, I'm voting you in part for the vote.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Third, piggy's push towards wasting town actions. It's a waste of an action and no one should do it. I'm incredibly suspicious of everyone who's trying to decrease the efficacy of town's night actions by pre-planning them or limiting them to weak actions. Siv is as or more scummy for this.

I've kindof given up on breaking the setup.

So, piggy, meta is your defence? Do you have any other defence?

Qwints, why exactly one scum? Why can't we both be scum, or neither of us?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wrong wagon to push.

VOTE: Zoidberg

Sheeping prohawk now.

PEdit: Okay, yeah, we push piggy then.

UNVOTE: Zoidberg
VOTE: Piggygal15

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Same here, we all work our own things out privately.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Zoid, why announce intent to hammer in this sort of game?

I don't understand the question.

I think it's basically saying that the only reason for intent to hammer is to get a claim from the about to be hammered person, not everyone else.

Also, please, if anyone wants to vig mist for that, let's not make it two or three of us. Does anyone want to claim responsibility to do it?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Oh great. I wanted to do a sortof weird (and potentially OP) action , so I asked for confirmation if I could then I siteflaked for the rest of the night and didn't submit any action.

I was going to make myself a one shot daycop, so I didn't accidentally hit the same person as anyone else, but meh.

I'm so screwed.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

No kill?

I think scum must have done some weird stuff that tries to get town lynched by day, or something...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I admit I am scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, um, I don't know what made me do that.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Aw come on? Why can't anyone get online? It almost makes me want to vote someone, but I don't know who.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I admit I am scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Go on about what?

Anyway, who goes next with night actions?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Yeah mit. I was going to make myself a 1shot daycop and I asked for clarification then I siteflaked the rest of the night.

And yes, I did admit I was scum. Twice.

Um, emp, what's aesthetic?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I admit I am scum.

I have no idea what you're talking about with post-restricted.

Mit, why keep action secret?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Oh god. Now I have vague unformulated suspicions I can't voice.

I'm going to make sure of something with T-Bone.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay, um.

I think mist is telling the truth about his action, and is slightly more townie for it.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Oh yeah.

I admit I am scum...

Yada Yada Yada.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I wasn't really clear on something.

It had to do with my post restriction.

I've actually already said it.

PEdit: Yeah, I definitely thought that it wasn't aesthetic.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I can't really.

I said the vague unformulated suspicions anyway in 258.

The other thought I had for why to have the post restriction is to try and lynch somebody by making them scummier. Idk.

I'm kindof too paranoid to vote, but the first vote thing is kindof a global action, isn't it?

The other obvious possibility is maybe Scream-Zoidberg, as that sort of reflecting investigation could have been faked. Especially given that they went last.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I admit I am scum.

Mist, you REALLY suck for that.

I doubt that plan will work, but I'd rather not say why.

Also, the cross-invesigation/double investigation is why I went for a daycop. I just messed it up.

@Mod, would a first person to vote kills themselves and the person they vote for action be allowed?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Ummm. Not that.

I still doubt how it's possible for mist to be lying. If there is no person willing to counterclaim it, then she is the person who did it.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Ummm.

Care to figure it out on your own?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

...

You know there's only one way I can respond to that.

Yes, I admit I am scum.

It's not quite close enough, I don't think.

ISO me and check today's posts. Seriously.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

And yeah, that's it.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

There is the whole question of how the post restriction would be enforced... Did you want a modkill? This is really irritating.

I think, given that scum didn't have any tangible night actions, it doesn't really matter that mist has a confirmable action.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon, qwints, why vote mist?

VOTE: Qwints

I admit I am scum.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Well, I was going to give myself a dayvig.

Actually, I was going to set up somebody so I could vig them at any time (basically one of the ways that arsonist works). Then I realized how unhelpful that was, and that I should just make myself a dayvig and give town the choice. Then, I decided to make myself a daycop.

Pity I siteflaked. Actually no, I didn't, to be truthful, I admit I am scum. With mist.

If mist is scum, she's going for a too scummy to be scum attitude. Which works so rarely it isn't worth bothering your time with as scum. If scum, why waste your time with a confirmable action that is also scummy? If you're scum and doing a useless yet confirmable action, you'll have thought hard about the choice before you make it. If you have thought about it that hard, you'll also have probably thought somewhat about WHAT action to do, and you won't do a dumb action.

FML when mist turns out to be scum though.

I'm pretty sure you haven't stolen anyone's vote as there'd not be 7 votes out already, zoid.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

So I don't need to keep track of how many posts I've made since I last did it.

I admit I am scum.

Also, UNVOTE: qwints
VOTE: empking

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

@Hawk and Siv: Your biggest scumread seems to be Emp. Who would his most likely partner be?

Speaking for myself, I've hit the brick wall of no reads and no motivation. Um...

Also, I'd probably have just lurked megahard were I to I admit I am scum.

Emp, why am I the obvious scum? Based on night actions, unless I'm lying about siteflaking (which I'm not), I'm scum with mitillos if I'm scum, and mist did some weird stuff to me, or I'm scum with mist and lied about siteflaking

Also, why lie about a siteflake as scum?

(Massive WIFOM, but this WIFOM is a big and unnecessary risk for scum. Seriously).

Anyway. To get at least a little bit of a read.

VOTE: Zoidberg

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Emp, why am I the obvious scum? Based on night actions, unless I'm lying about siteflaking (which I'm not), I'm scum with mitillos if I'm scum, and mist did some weird stuff to me, or I'm scum with mist and lied about siteflaking

Why does being scum with have to involve you lyinng about siteflaking?

If I did no night action due to siteflake, why did mitsy come up with innocent on me unless somebody else disrupted it / he was scum. And if scum planned on both just self-godfathering. Well yeah, I was here at the start of the night for that to sortof work, but I didn't plan on the siteflake.

PEdit: I make all my reads up as I go along anyway. And they're never coherent. Yeah, I'm never a help to town unless it's a breakable setup.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Er, yeah zoid. Is it scum-motivated either? It happens as town who isn't really taking things very seriously.

Anyway, I'm sortof reading somewhat scummy on zoid.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Yes, scream. You're right. There is no post restriction. I admit I am scum faking this whole post restriction business.

*phew* It's so much easier just getting it off the chest.

Also, delayed kill is what I was considering setting up as town... Um, when I get to the scum possibilities I shiver in dread.

We've kindof been going around in circles all the time. You could probably manufacture town reasons for everything, so we need to find something that's scummy. And I don't really know, but,

VOTE: empking

PEdit: why do we need mist votes?

Also, mitsy, if we have a godfathered scum we could have ONE of zoid/scream (more likely scream) being scum and faking an investigation on the other.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, why should I?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um, why should I?

Because clarity and transparency are pro-town.

Are you saying you were going to set up a delayed kill on N1, not having any investigation info available?

Oh, right. I'll keep the setup spec to myself, and the planned actions out.

I was going to setup a vig on somebody that could be activated in any future phase I liked (similar to arsonist in the wiki, I think), and give it to the town as to when to do it. I quickly decided that was a bad idea, and I should make myself a dayvig and give the choice to the town. I then figured daycop, and give the investigation to the town.

Prohawk's action is townish. It deals with the kills, and goes alright on everything else.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Made myself a dayvig with as many shots as I could have... one.

Who should I be shooting?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon.

At minimum my vig gives us two lynches before night. Is that a bad thing?

Also, qwints, I made myself 1shot dayvig.

I'm half wondering whether just to vig mitsy (I can call you this now that mist is dead right?), based on all the investigations. Neh, I'll do it on whoever we agree to lynch.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Qwints, I'm not conf-town. I fail to see the relevance? Oh, you're asking scream. Um.

VOTE: Prohawk

Circular voting yay!

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

But apparently there are two retards in the thread who think that if you claim first you are automatically not scum. Am I taking crazy pills here? Seriously what the fuck?

I think it's that if they claim last they're more likely to be scum.

Also, the logic behind my whole dayvig being scum looking for towncred is wrong. I'd be scum looking for nullcred, and it's easier to just shoot somebody at night than try to argue my choice of a vig. I assume any protective actions last until the next dream phase.

Hangon, just realized the most BS thing about pro's action. It only works if both mit and qwints are scum. If he's convinced they're both scum, or even that just mit is scum, why not make mit target himself?

VOTE: Prohawk

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Whatever. This is taking too long.

Dayvig : Prohawk

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

To answer your questions.

I just dayvigged prohawk.
I really doubt he's a dreamer. He's a nightmare, and must die die die!
Yes, I am.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay. Meh. Dangit T-Bone.

That was a completely fake vig, and it's not how I use it at all.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Mitly has it right.

Pro, why did I need to be lynched if that was a real dayvig?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Vig: Screamlamppost

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

You're dead, unless my misspelling your name matters.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

It's the actual vig.

If the innocents are all correct, then mitly is scum, and... I shot the wrong person, dangit.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Scream isn't active. Scream is a hydra. Scream hasn't really said V/LA.

That's my basis for shooting scream.

Also, the cross-innocents really don't work.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Here.

What was your night action?

I don't want to claim mine first, due to confirmability.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Also I apologise for the vig ending the day. I had no idea that would happen. I guess that's what happens when you don't specify things clearly enough...

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Right.

I redirected every action aimed at me at zoidberg. Thanks for the idea, zoidberg!

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I think it's fairly likely zoid was turned into a death miller. This is possibility A.
Possibility B is that there are three delayed kills lined up, one on each of us, and the game will be scorched earth draw.
Possibility C is that there are 3 scum. I really doubt this.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Empking.

What's your good reason for claiming last?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I didn't want to go first incase anyone claimed to have targeted me. That's it. I think the fullclaiming all at once of our actions is wrong, after some thought.

I was going to both commute AND make everyone targeting me bulletproof, but our wise and generous mod said no.

You suck T-Bone.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Why no lynch?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

What would you do after a no lynch?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I was going to both commute AND make everyone targeting me bulletproof

Actually, this is wrong. It was protect and roleblock all people targeting me (basically reflecting a jail, lol), but lolnopenty. What I said there is how t-bone interpreted it.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Screw it.

I'm really close to voting empking.

It doesn't make sense to no lynch, as all that does is put it to night and emp only has the idea of making himself untargetable as a good role. And if he's going to think that's the best choice, we might as well just lynch now...

Unless we do all make ourselves untargetable.

Dangit, mit is V/La...

Well, this sucks.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Not an OMGUS or anything, is it? Do you have any other reasoning, or even an elaboration on what I'm faking?

I would have voted you there, but it doesn't make sense because it won't be a lynch without mit, and just in case he's the last scum I'd rather have his feedback first anyway.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Emp, you STILL have no reasoning as to why we should No-Lynch.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

My action was to

vig t-bone

be reflective.

I really don't understand WHY emp was suggesting no-lynch.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Um.

My action choices I have explained already, I think. My votes I try to explain when it happens. You'd need to give specific examples.

I was going to vote emp for the whole no-lynch idea. It was going to bring the game to day when we're not going to win this during the day...

Actually, I just had an idea. Dangit.

Oh, and

Vote Empking[/vote]

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

VOTE: Vote Empking

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

My idea is a day plan, so we need to no lynch to do it.

I don't want to explain it as that wrecks it.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Hangon, when is the end of the game?
Is 1v1 a win for scum?
Is 0v0 a win for scum?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Mitly?

Also,

Mod, Is 1 town and one scum a win for scum?
Is scorched earth a win for scum?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Okay.

I can say, that the last person being a serial killer makes sense, because of the town win condition.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

5. No quoting PM's for ANY reason. If you have a question about your role, PM me. Do not ask in the thread.

Don't want to be modkilled. Go read it and work it out yourself.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Townie townie towny town here. Why lynch me?

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Wow.

Emp has a point, but his point is complete BS, as his actual CLAIMED ACTION works for sk.

Dangit.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Yeah.

No lynch was the problem. And a giveaway, emp.