Micro 71: Lucid Dreamers - Night 4

[screamlampost]

What the actual fuck?

- Neighbour circle is a bad idea. Turning this game into nightless is terrible. We have like 7 town unlimited JoaTs vs. 2 scum. Night actions are going to win us this game.

- Yes, there are 2 scum. No discussion on this.

- Siv taking his time to edit posts is null. Siv making time on following posts just to make people think "hey he does take some time to edit posts" and calling other people ninjas so everyone notices it is a scumtell.

- I didn't active lurk. And I doubt my other head did.

You had way more reasons to vote someone else. Voting a pseudo-lurker is not going to help town in this game. And I'm defenitively not voting Piggy based on activity.

unvote; Vote: Siveure

~m - a.k.a. Head #2

[screamlampost]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

I did not. The call out was for voting an actual lurker (me), not an active lurker. All of your posts prior to that were setup speculation. You felt the need to vote someone for not contributing without having contributed an awful lot yourself.

[ProHawk]

Time for my reads.

~ Town ~

Mit

- Is actively hunting, seems genuine

~ Leaning Town ~

Mist

- Participating, willing to stick her neck out.

Qwints

- Scum hunting has been little to none, however he was the first most vocal against making plans when most everyone else was trying to come up with something

Sive

- Uses logic that I can't really follow, but seems to genuinely believe it.

Scream

- Seems to be actively participating, although the double personality is throwing me off a bit.

~ Leaning Scum ~

Empking

- Super Lurker

~ Scum ~

Piggy

- Scummy posts, and responses

Zoidberg

- Fence sitting hard core.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone would like any more explanation on my reads, just ask.

With that said

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zoidberg

Take a stance on something Zoid.

Side Note: Piggy is still scum.

[Zoidberg]

Take a stance on something Zoid.

You mean like on Siveure being scum? ok

[screamlampost]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

I did not. The call out was for voting an actual lurker (me), not an active lurker. All of your posts prior to that were setup speculation. You felt the need to vote someone for not contributing without having contributed an awful lot yourself.

Ummm, you really haven't been a fountain of conversation yourself there SD. Also, I would add that my point still stands. You don't vote someone for voting a lurker when you've just called them a lurker...that would mean that you yourself are guilty of what you're voting somebody for. Your logic is fundamentally flawed.

@ProHawk: Yeah, we're new to the whole Hydra thing. We'll be toning down the schizophrenia as we get more used to this. Apologies.

~M

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

I also find it stupid that Siv basically called us out for voting an active lurker (which we're not) then...voted somebody he'd called an active lurker.
Therein doing exactly what he just voted us for.

Vote co-signed.

~M a.k.a. Head #1

I did not. The call out was for voting an actual lurker (me), not an active lurker. All of your posts prior to that were setup speculation. You felt the need to vote someone for not contributing without having contributed an awful lot yourself.

Ummm, you really haven't been a fountain of conversation yourself there SD. Also, I would add that my point still stands. You don't vote someone for voting a lurker when you've just called them a lurker...that would mean that you yourself are guilty of what you're voting somebody for. Your logic is fundamentally flawed.

@ProHawk: Yeah, we're new to the whole Hydra thing. We'll be toning down the schizophrenia as we get more used to this. Apologies.

~M

How is my logic flawed? The push to contribute when you aren't contributing a whole load yourself is, in my very limited experience, scummy.

I'm voting you for being scummy by voting a lurker and active lurking, not for being anti-town by lurking.

Um, I'm voting you in part for the vote.

[ProHawk]

You mean like on Siveure being scum? ok

It is possible to fake taking a stance, which is what I believe you are doing with Siveure. Lets take a look at your vote post.

Piggy has a eensy weensy townread from me, so can't take that wagon.

Whoa there, nugget. Why can't you vote someone who says they have a town read on you?

VOTE: Siveure Dtsomething

First, from what I understand, you read this post wrong. Siveure said he has an eensy weensy townread on Piggy, which is why he didn't vote her. Not the other way around as you seem to imply.

So to me, your stance on Sive was faulty to begin with, and to top it off rocky on its own.

Second, you make no other argument, mention, or attempt to find out if Siveure is

really

scum. I would go so far as to say you don't even care to find out. You only indirectly address him in one post in which you quote qwints who quoted Siveure just to say you wouldn't be on board with his plan, failing to address anything about scum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now onto my point of fence sitting. You leave your vote on Sieve without any real solid evidence/rationale

Post #71 - Scummy reads on Qwints and Prohawk
Post #84 - Obvious attack on Mist without deliberately calling her scum for her action.
Post #118 - Imply Mit is scum for making a scum-slip about the number of scum in this game

You seem to think that other people are scummy yet maintain your vote on Sieve and don't continue to pursue your reads.

[Zoidberg]

Whooooooops, you're right, I misread "from" as "on"

UNVOTE:

Re-reading

[Empking]

Empking - Super Lurker

What metric do you use to think that I'm a super-lurker and not Mist.

[qwints]

At this point I think there is exactly one scum between Piggy and Siv.

@qwints: Go on, why is Piggy obvscum? Is it the lack of a vote, as Mist suggested? Or is there something additional?

Piggy is obvscum for several reasons. First, her reads:

Spoiler: reads

Emp, Zoid, Mit, you three are town, no doubt.
No idea about the rest of you.

Qwints

might

be town. We'll see.

[Prohawk] and Mist are my biggest scum reads, though I doubt the interaction between them comes from scumbuddies.

I think [you, Prohawk, are] scummy because you're actually thinking logically.

There are two things here that make her scum. First, she gives no real reason for these reads. Reading her iso, she says that the first three town reads are based on consistent play style and that Prohawk is being too logical. Those are both poor reasons for reads. More important are two factors. The lack of a vote (instead leaving her RVS vote on Mit), and the fact that's she dropped Mist since her first mention of her. Piggy's only mention of Mist is that she is the second of Piggy's two biggest scum reads. That's a scummy move and reeks of distancing to me.

Second, piggy's position that pro-town play like logical, well thought out posts is scummy.

Spoiler: scumtells

I think your scummy because you're actually thinking logically. By now I'm just thinking that's just you, but when I'm looking for scum, I'm looking at who seems to be really putting thought into every single one of their posts. Making them perfect and well-worded and thought out. So far, that's exactly what you've been doing.

You debated on posting your comment... only scum ever are unsure if they should post. Humming and hawing about a comment means you were thinking "Oh, maybe I should re-word this so that I don't get scum points"

Logical, well thought out play is pro-town. Those kinds of posts give town more information to work with. Attacking players for pro-town play is scummy.

Third, piggy's push towards wasting town actions. It's a waste of an action and no one should do it. I'm incredibly suspicious of everyone who's trying to decrease the efficacy of town's night actions by pre-planning them or limiting them to weak actions. Siv is as or more scummy for this.

[PiggyGal15]

Lawl Qwints, you should go read me on day 1 of ANY game, me not giving reasons and having horrible reads is just a given. It's because I'm horrible at day 1. I can admit that and have come to terms with it. If you want to lynch me for that, I won't blame you. But with me, lynching me for those sorts of reasons becomes a policy lynch... Even though I get so much better on later days.

[Siveure DtTrikyp]

Third, piggy's push towards wasting town actions. It's a waste of an action and no one should do it. I'm incredibly suspicious of everyone who's trying to decrease the efficacy of town's night actions by pre-planning them or limiting them to weak actions. Siv is as or more scummy for this.

I've kindof given up on breaking the setup.

So, piggy, meta is your defence? Do you have any other defence?

Qwints, why exactly one scum? Why can't we both be scum, or neither of us?

[qwints]

You're not scum together, but you're both very scummy.

[screamlampost]

This setup is unbreakable by defenition. I thought we already knew that.

But maybe if we make a tracking circle instead of neighbourizing it'll be more obvious if scum doesn't follow the plan. But still, I don't see why wouldn't they just follow it. Unless we can make some kind of action that is triggered during the day or something. I saw that kind of stuff in the other game, but I'm not sure how can we successfuly use them without "kill only if Nightmare" kind of stuff. I'm just throwing ideas in the air, but I think we can do better than just throwing night actions away.

And Siv, you voted a lurker for voting a lurker. Yes you did. And the funny thing is that we aren't even lurking.

[ProHawk]

@Qwints,

Not seeing how Piggy and Sive are not scum together aside from I don't have a scum-read on Sive. I somewhat agree with your reasoning about scum wanting to be apart of the town planning night actions, however for a much different reason. I believe that scum are doing it not to decrease the efficacy of the town or by limiting them to weak actions, but rather to blend in by looking like town.

Empking - Super Lurker

What metric do you use to think that I'm a super-lurker and not Mist.

Content vs. Fluff. I consider this post even as a content-less ball of fluff. Get to playing, you are quickly dropping down my list of reads.

Initial posts, basically agreement posts, not really offering any insight.
ISO #4, 5, 6, 7 - Short answer question response
ISO #8 - The first post I find content in, and even then its scarce
ISO #10-12 - Very scummy, you want in on the wagon, but don't want to hammer. I could see bussing here.
ISO #13-14 - Fluff

[Zoidberg]

Prod dodge, brother is in from out of town, I'll be back tomorrow.

[Mitillos]

Hmm, I was thinking qwints is scum from how he jumped two wagons right after me. His response in 160 kind of shook that though.

So far, I have town reads on Emp and qwints in descending order of strength, null on Zoid, Mist, Hawk and scream (slightly to the scum side for Mist, slightly to the town side for Hawk and Zoid) and scum on Piggy and Siv, again in descending order of strength.

[ProHawk]

Would love to hear some details on your reads Mit, specifically on your Emp's town read and Siv's scum read.

[Mitillos]

Naturally.
Emp: He's reacted three times as I would expect from town. When I asked him why he picked Zoid over Piggy, when there was a wagon on him and when I unvoted Piggy for him to vote. He may have been posting mostly fluff, but when he posted non-fluff it was solid stuff.
Siv: His attack on Mist when he started posting was in no way pro-town. How exactly was her opposition to a wagon the same as derailing it? His insistence that scream's vote was scummy stinks of obfuscated OMGUS. Voting lurkers and inactives in general is a good thing, because otherwise we're allowing scum to slide by unnoticed. The whole thing about taking for ever with p-edits and how he did it again and then drew additional attention to it with the ninja comment is a very slight scumtell on its own, but with everything else, it's additional evidence.
Piggy: Should be clear, from everything that's happened so far. I only unvoted for her to check Emp's claim. You can consider my vote as tentatively on her, for now.
qwints: His response in 160 is what pushed him up the town ladder. As I mentioned, I had a slight scumread on him before, but that changed my mind.
Hawk and Zoid are slightly town because they seem earnest and eager in their scumhunting attempts.
Mist was slightly scummy because of 83, but 93 helped mitigate that quite a bit. On the whole, hers is the read I'm not too big on and could very easily move up the town scale.
scream: Each head of the hydra is throwing me off my reads on the other. And the reads themselves are way too weak to constitute much. Completely null.

[Mist7676]

Oh so we are doing reads now?

I enjoy seeing myself on everyone's null leaning scum list [/sarcasm]

Well I will do the reads after I read up a bit. Maybe tonight, maybe not, but I will get this done

[Mitillos]

@Mist: We've been doing reads for a while, actually. Just not quite so explicit. Some more would be appreciated, from everyone.
And hey, at least everyone thinks you're null leaning scum. That means that you could get lynched tomorrow, so scum won't kill you tonight. With people calling me strong town, mafia would only not target me for WIFOM purposes. So, you know, it's actually a good thing, in a way.

[qwints]

Mit, what did the mod say last game about nightmares and guns? He said that only if a person chose to be a vig that night, they would have a gun. Meaning nightmares don't by default have guns. I was being sarcastic about the "scumslip", hence the

Siveure... that... that was just...

Mit, I can take a LONG time to actually post stuff. I put it in, got the PEdit,

then hummed and hawed about actually posting it.

You debated on posting your comment... only scum ever are unsure if they should post. Humming and hawing about a comment means you were thinking "Oh, maybe I should re-word this so that I don't get scum points"

Caught scum, right here.
VOTE: Siveure

If we're neighbourizing people, sorry Mit, we had some fun times, but I'm going with Siveure or Prohawk. I suggest if we do this, the towniest town reads should be put with the scummiest scum reads. That way there's little chance of scum being paired together.

Two things about this post that make me post it in full. First, I don't think scum piggy makes that kind of attack on her scum buddy which is why I don't think they're scum together. Second, can we talk about just how stupid this neighbourizing proposal is? What a waste of an action. Not only is this discussing plans of actions (which is anti-town), it's proposing incredibly weak actions. If scum piggy convinces just one townie to neighborize instead of doing something more useful, she'll have achieved a victory for scum. Piggy needs to be the lynch today.

[ProHawk]

Two things about this post that make me post it in full. First, I don't think scum piggy makes that kind of attack on her scum buddy which is why I don't think they're scum together. Second, can we talk about just how stupid this neighbourizing proposal is? What a waste of an action. Not only is this discussing plans of actions (which is anti-town), it's proposing incredibly weak actions. If scum piggy convinces just one townie to neighborize instead of doing something more useful, she'll have achieved a victory for scum. Piggy needs to be the lynch today.

I concur on your point about the attack.

I know scream will scream at me for this, however I think Piggy is on board with the neighborizing because she really thinks its a good plan, not because she is scum trying to convince the town to make poor night choices. My evidence is from the game you linked to. She

did

neighborize in her last game as town which says to me she

thinks

its a smart move.

[PiggyGal15]

I just love neighbourizing ^.^