Micro 273: There is Trouble in Paradise (Game Over)

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Confirming.

Looking forward to playing with everyone.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

VOTE: Kagami

Someone with a cuter avatar than mine? Unacceptable.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Jerk put penguin-kagami in a zoo.

VOTE: Wisdom

Are you an alt, katarina?

I am not. I am currently a hydra with a friend in another game. Well, we died.

This is my second game here so far. So hi.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Why should I care at RVS?

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Burden of the response was on you.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

No, it's actually on you. You merely dodged the question with "lolrvs".

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.


Also, did I miss from this Bacon wagon?

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I don't like that katarina ninja vanished.

I went to bed *sniffle*

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.

Why feigning? There is a reason people wagon in RVS and that's to get reactions and get the game started. It looks like that's what you wanted to avoid.

As you said, the it's RVS. The votes have no meaning nor does any reaction you try to get. The reactions you get from there are standardized to make it look like someone is scumhunting and trying to make something out of votes that don't carry at all in that game (specifically that wagon and not this L-1).

Why should I try to intervene and get into something not worth investing on. Avoiding it doesn't mean I object to the wagon, I'd say so myself. I just simply don't care.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

This is pretty bad, js!

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Acting newbie and friendly... probably newcomers to our village... newcomers are Blood Mages...

Then again, why would scum claim hydra? Ain't the reason for alts is to hide your identity to fool meta scumhunters?

Got me, big woop. Also, I'm not claiming to be newbie nor friendly. I've played Mafia in other websites but this is my second game here that's not in a hydra.

Suspiciously cool answers. I find lack of profanities disturbing...

Otherwise it's normal.

A lady with class should withhold from swearing.

I don't like the phrase: "That was the appropriate response". Don't know what she meant.

It meant it was the only response he was going to get and not the one he was expecting. Nothing more, nothing less.

Acting defensive! Scum scum! Lacked commitment to this game, she rather sleep. Only scums lack commitment.

If not, I'll ignore this.

Sorry for sleeping at 3am when the thread watered down. Boohoo.

Your pseudo-scumhunting translations are pretty bad. You should work on your impressions before you bring it to the table~

I'm not a fan of this Bacon wagon. Wisdom is just prodding the the bull without actually doing anything productive. If you were confident he was scum then you'd hammer it without a wince. Fishing for a claim at this point won't make us achieve anything. If there were scum on this wagon I'd say it was

Kazekimaru

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Also do explain why delta is town and why kaze is scum. You're merely trying to paint people as scummy without doing any scumhunting.

(still @katarina)

I'm not sure about Delta, lol. I just said that rushing his wagon seems like a silly idea. You're pushing a wagon on me that I don't particularly agree with, when it was pushed towards

you

.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

How is that not scummy at all? "

Either you claim a PR or get lynched.

" You expect me to ignore that and call Bacon scum?

If you don't want to hammer him, then quit painting him in a manner where you'd much rather have someone hammer on your call without actually having the need to cast your vote on him.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

How am I pushing his wagon on you? I don't want you to hammer him. I was stating you are ignoring it.

You are not sure about delta yet you state you don't like his wagon AND look for scum on it? How does that work?

The first sentence answers the second.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Wait no, the second sentence answers the first! Silly me.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Once more, you're dodging. You said you don't like the delta wagon and you stated who you think is scum on the wagon (right after delta said there are scum on his wagon, no less). That means you think he is town, so you're lying about being unsure.

Key word "

IF

"

I won't ignore Kaze's horrid and opportunistic play at this lynch. I think that's scummier than what Bacon presumably did.

In fact, I don't even

know

what Bacon did. ISO gives me nothing. Mind even explaining the wagon before you want me to agree with whatever you're bringing forward?

I am unsure on what he is. I've said this already. I don't know whether or not he's town or scum. I'm just saying that in the case that this lynch goes awry it should be noted that Kaze put him in a position where the only way to drop the L-1 was a PR claim, while simultaneously pushing the lynch on him. Here and here.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

And wait a second..!
You are calling kaze opportunistic in pushing delta without knowing and without having judged for yourself what delta did? Then how do you know whether kaze is right or not?

Are you going to gamble his "PR or die" claim for a mislynch? Seriously? That's not pro-town at all. I don't have to know the results, just to bring that up is scummy in itself. You're putting a person on stake for no productive reason at all.

Also, what Delta did as severely blown out of proportion, though his reaction doesn't help all.

I'm not misrepresenting you. You're pushing this wagon on me

when I've already stated what I had regarding the people on it.

You seem to not have any stance on this thus far, yet you're continuing to redirect it towards me.

Now answer me this, do you think Delta is scum? If not then will you entertain the possibility that there are in fact, scum in his wagon?

Also YellowKingValley there are scripts that let you automatically format your posts to be colored. You should look into that.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

There are three misreps in your post.
1) "PR or die" is a complete misrep of what kaze said. Kaze was confident delta is scum, I asked him why he's so hasty and doesn't consider the scenario delta is a PR, he said he doesn't because he's confident delta is scum. Absolutely nothing scummy about this, btw.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

Put on L-1 with the only claim to ever excuse him of that lynch is a PR. Didn't appeal to reasoning at all. Even nudged you to hammer. How exactly does that seem to you. Put two and two together from what he asked of that post.

2) I have been pushing nothing on to you. I showed how you were avoiding to comment on the two wagons, not the fact you didn't join them. You only stated your thoughts on the wagon when I had already called you out on it, so that's a lie.

Katarina why did you ignore the Jason wagon?

And now you're ignoring the delta wagon on top of that and it's not RVS. So?

pedit: I'm not lynching on p3.

You called me out and I reacted on the wagon, and I did. It is what it is, I find Kaze scummy and Delta not as guilty as you propose. You've said or done nothing otherwise that would convince me it isn't except claiming that what I believe is misrepresenting you and Kaze.

3) my stance on the wagon is completely clear. I think delta is scum. I have not hammered because it's early and there's no reason to.

I'm sorry for trying to adhere to our objectives!

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Oh god I can't English at all I'm ashamed ; A ;

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Wait so I'm scum for not thinking this one guy is scum? Damn, that's a solid case you guys got here.

Wisdom, can you go in depth on why Delta is scum. Like what exactly is your case that you're hovering over the L-1

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I don't like this theory

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I don't like how you guys twisted this in a way that I'm scum. It makes me hella paranoid at the moment and paranoid me sucks under pressure!

I didn't like Delta's wagon and I explained why. How come it's a scumtell that you guys start realizing that Delta isn't as scummy as you played him off as and I was the one who actually went against your L-1 Wagon? That's just silly. Super silly.

Also, asking for a claim in this kind of setup is practically worthless, you're only going to get Townie or a PR, that's about it? Why would you even try to get a claim this early into the game?

I haven't looked into anyone's meta here. All I have is that Kaze and YKV have been making a bunch of suspicious plays and that Wisdom is trying too hard to get on my nerves. Which he is!

[Katarina LeBlanc]

because the basis of his lynch was him reacting to an RVS vote the wrong way. If you were going to work off any day 1 start, that's a horrible reason for a lynch.

I've already said why I felt is Kaze's opportunistic scum, I don't see the need to repeat myself YET AGAIN.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Wisdom is being wisdom and kaze is being kaze; nothing to complain about in either case. The delta push was good no matter how you look at it, though if I think Kat is more likely scum.

Eww meta.

The reason the Delta push happened was bad. Joke posts turned serious all too fast.
The Delta push is good because as you said it pushed us out of RVS and gave us the most to work with.
The Delta hammer is bad. People are not justifying it at all. The best everyone has is

"Wait does he joke around in his games?"

. I'm a lost sheep when it comes to metas but pardon me for disagreeing and using common sense!

I think her confidence that Delta is not scum is unreasonable, and her belief that kaze is scum is inconsistent with that, since the best argument against Kaze is that he did almost exactly what Delta did.

u avin a giggle m8? I've already said I'm unsure on what Delta's stance in this game is. I never said he was town, I just said that everyone's biggest scumtell on him was taking a joke post seriously. That's literally the only reason I see this wagon on him. Unless someone clarifies why I should think otherwise then I don't see the reason in calling him confirmed scum. You're all silly.

I think what YKV and Kaze did were both smart while scummy at the same time. Their #56 and #59 towards Wisdom made me wonder about his intentions towards the lynch. Made it seem like he had no intent to lynch. Like right now he's already wussed out :3

You don't have a confident scumtell on someone, then back off because he

might

be a PR. That to me looks like he's town trying to get a reaction (which he did out of me, I admit). Or scum who pushed for Delta a bit too hard that backfired on him and now he has to save ass because he can't push this lynch without looking scummy.

Either way, only YKV and Kaze had the most to salvage out of either possibility. And my gut leans towards Kaze because his avatar looks all mean and suspicious and all.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Avatartells are legit.

Kat, mind humoring me with a T/S list so I can see where exactly you're standing at the moment?

I'm laying down at the moment.

You realize that the reason we jumped on delta was not that he took the joke post seriously, right Kat? Taking the joke seriously is obviously null. The problem is that he was very quick to jump on the first little "scummy" thing that he saw (which unfortunately for him was a joke that he didn't get), together with his awkward reactions when called on it.

His awkward reactions are bad but not confirmed scum bad. Not at this early stage of the game. Not going to let you get away with

"Sometimes it's that easy."

Similarly kaze jumped on Delta, but that's obviously less scummy then Delta jumping on phd, and more consistent with his meta.

Wisdom

is

suspicious, just not suspicious enough for me to attack him for it; I don't have him as a town-read for a reason. In any case, Kat deserves some of the questions she's gotten, imo, and I would hardly call asking her why she ignored the wagon "jumping on her." That's pretty much the standard thing to say about whoever votes third/fourth, they either "ignored the wagon" or "brought someone to L-1 on page 1." I consider that just a move to get out of RVS


I'm actually somewhat against a wisdom lynch even if he were being significantly scummier simply because his presence generates a lot of content.

It's not like Wisdom has seriously pushed for a lynch, either, even though kaze and I has already voiced support for it, so I don't see anything particularly damning there.

Wisdom said he was confirmed scum in his books, how does claiming that

not

have intent to lynch? But I agree, I don't think Wisdom lynch is the best course today.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That to me looks like he's town trying to get a reaction (which he did out of me, I admit). Or scum who pushed for Delta a bit too hard that backfired on him and now he has to save ass because he can't push this lynch without looking scummy.

My read on Wisdom.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Replying to you makes me feel like a broken record.

I'm not sure you understand the futility of your read or how silly you are looking by desperately latching on to this.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Delta backed off immediately and parroted me once I stepped in. Cute.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

What?? Isn't Mini 622 just some random game??

What bugs me is Kagami hasn't been relying on statistics in this game. Kagami is a crazy person who believe that meta stats is the key to finding scum. Nothing of that this game.

Last I checked, Kagami isn't a robot.

I could be wrong about that, possibly. The point is that this angle is bad. Reminds me of people jumping on fferyllt whenever she doesn't metadive people immediately. It's null.

Didn't you say not long ago that you don't meta? Now you're using it?

I was expecting an answer for this, Citizen.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Hmm, me as a scumread? Alright.

Is this all solely based on my reaction towards Delta because if so, then lol.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

AWK AWK PARROT

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Is Kagami really this overanalytical?

I'm sort of feeling the similar vibe as Kaze on her except hers is more jargon!

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Alright I've decided

Unvote

vote YKV

Jason is mad town tunneling a suspect. One that after I read back had the scummiest tone.
Kaze was on same boat as YKV except my gut read made me lean towards him, giving YKV some space to breathe.
Wisdom likely to be VI.
Kagami seems townish.
Delta wagon was bad to begin with, people played his inactivity too much and theorized without him being able to defend early points.
PhD likely partner for YKV.
Kat is the cutest.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

My post will be bad because I'm on Android but here goes.

Delta wagon started c.o of PhD and Kaze. YKV chimed in and sheeped Kaze at both points. Pushed for Delta hammer on Wisdom. Naturally Wisdom won't hammer, so YKV can focus on him because Wisdom pushed too hard without voting. If he did hammer, Kaze was better target over him.

YKV is just echoing whoever while staying behind them. Was on Delta wagon then now against it with me. Either way the lynch goes he had the most to benefit. Even bringing up WIFOM at one point in the game to excuse himself of sheeping. " scum only sheep because of x reasons "

I believe he should be lynched today. Sorry for bad engrish

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Vote him u butt

[Katarina LeBlanc]

But at least she did acknowledge that the wagon exist by saying: "Also, did I miss from this Bacon wagon?". Lesser scums will just go "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil". I interpret her lack of additional comments as "not too convinced of the wagon to demand claim". Why did you not ask for her opinion on Deltabacon then?

In contrast to you... you are convinced that Deltabacon is scum but yet avoid asking for claim? If you are worried that he might be PR, why don't you devise a method so that he will survive the night even if he claims?

I'll unvote if you convince me... so tell me...

Because he's tried rather hard to pose it as a serious vote with piss-poor reasoning.

Are you complaining that I'm taking things seriously?

You are voting him because you thought that
1) he is trolling
2) he is stupid scum
3) he is stupid town that needs to be policy lynched

If he didn't, then why did he reply in a serious fashion?

Quote the reply you are referring to.

So I caused a stir, I misrepped something (until he says he was joking I'm still pretty sure I wasn't misrepping)

Until when? By which post?

and then I used a little bit of sarcasm in a response.

Which post?

Which proves I'm scum! Yes! The case has been cracked! (is my sarcasm clear enough now?)

The case on me is weak as shit. It's so very forced and yet it's taken me to L-1. Are we really going to shoot ourselves in the foot this early? It's idiotic at best, lambs to the slaughter-esque at worst.

What do you expect for D1 lynch?

At least 1 scum is on my wagon right now.

Not me...

"Dedicated"

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I swear I'm not high

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I enjoy how Kaze's scum read on me was pinned on Delta's flip. The gist of why you were being all mean and stuff was because you claimed I was a careless scum partner trying to defend Delta. That I was that

easy

.

Push on me all you want, I just sort of proved you wrong and you're salty.

I dislike how everyone backed off delta on the VT claim, it was expected that the PR claim wasn't going out. If he were his activity and defending himself at L-1 would triple. This makes Kaze and Kagami look kinds bad but I don't want to put them in cahoots.

I don't really understand why people are pushing for my lynch but I'm assuming it's s um motivated!

Also will redo my reads. YKV seemed to be spot on about my state of mind!

I'm not a fan of Jason's aggressiveness, but it's not really a scum tell.
Wisdom needs to explain why he's been tunneling the shit out of me since page 1.
Kaze is sort of rising through the scumreads and my gut is just screaming for a lynch on him.
Kagami I honestly can't read at all because she's super boring.
Delta is ded lurker, that close to a lynch and minimal reactions is a bit unnerving.
PhD is kinda cool.
I am intentionally ignoring Citizen. Mostly be cause after backing me up at one part his posting was just all irrelevant.
YKV is so.. ugh I don't like him being all involved and stuff. But gut says to trust him idk.

Anyways, that's probably what I have for this game.

vote Kaze

I'd theorize a partner but I'm too lazy. I'd say it wasn't Delta, Cit, or YKV but w/e.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

...
I dislike how everyone backed off delta on the VT claim, it was expected that the PR claim wasn't going out. If he were his activity and defending himself at L-1 would triple. This makes Kaze and Kagami look kinds bad but I don't want to put them in cahoots.
...

Why doesn't this make citizen look bad as well?

He wasn't really as committed to the lynch as Kaze was plus I won't pair them for hell.


Also, Wisdom not explaining

[Katarina LeBlanc]

...
I dislike how everyone backed off delta on the VT claim, it was expected that the PR claim wasn't going out. If he were his activity and defending himself at L-1 would triple. This makes Kaze and Kagami look kinds bad but I don't want to put them in cahoots.
...

Why doesn't this make citizen look bad as well?

He wasn't really as committed to the lynch as Kaze was plus I won't pair them for hell.


Also, Wisdom not explaining

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That's how I always talk.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I don't doubt that's how you talk in real life, but on the internet you're actively typing out the things you say. You're purposely sounding non-committal.

Contradicting first part.

I type it as it goes through my thought process. As does anyone? I feel like you don't have that much and you're just grasping at straws.

Wisdom, I asked you a question. Reason you're VI is because you're needlessly pushing without any ideal motivation or reasoning when asked. You just want to peg me as scum so bad, kinda like Kaze!

[Katarina LeBlanc]

You give out PR/scum vibes...

wat

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Reason you're VI is because you're needlessly pushing without any ideal motivation or reasoning when asked.

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I explained why you are scum many pages ago.

Was that the horrible WIFOM towards me going against Delta wagon cos if so, then lol.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

PhD, the reason both reads list are different from one another was because I felt the need to make one to sum up my stance in the game. I wasnt really thinking it through as I made the first reads list. YKV felt the need to point out all my inconsistencies and to be honest I felt extremely dumb for making those reads on the whim.

I made the follow up post (after actually taking the time to read back on the game) to fix my errors that I naively made.

I do agree that my first reads were bad, I'm not sure what I was thinking of in the first place. But rest assured that I'm trying to make it up now.

Lynching me is an extremely bad choice right now because you know, it sucks. (I mean no one likes being d1'd). I still do strongly believe that Kaze is scum.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I'm frustrated at your tunneling. You've replied to Kagami and I've ISO'd you about 3 times now and still your explanations come lackluster. You're not even explaining at all, the gist of all your cases against me is either "why can't Kat be scum" or "why not." All you've been saying is that I'm acting scummy with no evidence, backing, or even examples. The moment I mess up a post that I've already explained you immediately bring up that smug "I knew it all along" stance.

I called you VI because it seems that all you're doing is trying to fish a negative response for me despite the numerous instances I asked you for an explanation. You're deliberately pushing my buttons by it actually providing any information or reasoning behind why I'm actually scummy. You just pegged me as that ever since somewhere in day 3.

It's complete bullshit that I'm being suspected for not favoring the Delta wagon. Scum looking for towncred? Um hello it was a bad wagon to begin with why would I

not

oppose it as any logical player. Reasons why I'm scum as I read back were "potential scum partner for Delta" which is just hilariously bad and disagreeing with your dumb votes.

I want Kaze gone. 1, took full part in the Delta wagon

and even got the claim he wanted

that I've been trying to point out ever since he entertained that. See what I meant back in #64 #83 #94. And 2, he lost all reasoning to lynch me but still wants me gone. Lynching me would just leave Wisdom as the foolish scapegoat for his tunneling. I don't want that chain of events to happen.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kaze is the center of my reads, so I'm probably going to round it to you, PhD, Kagami or Jason. To be honest I'm starting to like Kagami more too. I don't want to rule her out just yet though because I always doubt myself and think of every worst outcome.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

So wait I'm scum again?

I'm just rounding down potential partners for Kaze considering both of you haven't really clashed interests. It's not that you are, scum but its that it's possible. I just don't think that the players I didn't list are possible partners for him.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kaze wagon please.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

LoL you can't even suggest a partner for Kat die scum I don't trust you anymore.

First we lynch scum, then we find partners.

You are so bad.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Yeah, I know, I'm a VI because I pegged you

Pegging is bad.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Go away YKV stop sheeping me, also why are you not voting Kaze?

P. Edit: Wisdom probably has no actual solid read one me.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

They've yet to react considering only 2 other people are active. You are not as conf town as you say you are.

Wisdom I'm asking nicely and not calling you VI, why do you think I'm scummy. Please explain of cite posts.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Thank you, now as for my response.

I will stand by calling Kaze's play as opportunistic. He pushed the hammer on you, this not only makes your reluctance to hammer a scumtell but let's him get away with the terrible early Delta wagon.

I am not going to let him get away with choking the clam out of Delta, that was just scummy as hell. One, he laughed at me pointing out that he was fishing for a claim. Yet wording and actual events proved me right. Two, he got exactly what he wanted under the guise of pressuring Delta. An unwarranted claim and a reason to drop the wagon for no reason. He managed to out someone who claimed VT as a potential target.

I believe that his actions are scum motivated, you cannot ignore these.

Whether or not you continue this lynch is entirely up to you.

Also, Kaze, I don't think you're town. I'll try my best to convince everyone as well. I think your alleged towntell came from pressuring Delta. Clearly this wagon has lost all momentum at the moment.

You pushing on me when the main reason you suspected me was the best potential partner of Delta makes you seem awfully desperate.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I will stand by calling Kaze's play as opportunistic.

Sigh. This female.

Are you trying to get yourself killed, punk!?

[Katarina LeBlanc]

You gonna be the one to make it so? ;D

Nah. She will ask me to kill you and then kill me.

Oh my..


Just make sure to keep you mouth shut when I do.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

No idea who that girl is from.

So, Kat, I'm scum, huh?

Blood mages have red hats and your avatar has one.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Unfortunately, town never play like the ideal image of town you have in your mind. That's why all those stuff are null and jumping to conclusion based on those is ultra bad.

Then no harm removing them early. Not that they will be any useful late game.

Stop right there. This is super bad by you and I agree on Wisdom's point. Lynching those seemingly inactive is horrible for town. For one, they could be a PR laying low as to avoid major suspicion from scum. To base your lynches off activity is a bit desperate and shows off you lack of solid reads in the game.

Wisdom and Delta interaction pushes Delta up to town for me.

Wisdom is still lost.

As for Delta, meta is an important factor and I think that in this game it is important to focus on the usage.

I think that Kagami has built a reputation for going in depth with meta and as such her meta checks have been brought into account. I think part of why she thinks Kaze is town is due to meta, will read back on this to confirm.

But shouldn't knowing that someone in the game is reliant on meta be a factor on how you act? Interaction with Kaze and Kagami makes it seem that Kaze was indeed aware of this fact. This is heavy WIFOM but I don't want to clean him for the sake of acting like he does as town. Doesn't he have the capacity to manipulate his own meta in order to look town? See #563. He brings up that townreads on him are based on is meta and I don't like that at all.

I just don't want him in this game right now. My insides are screaming he's scum.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Quick Kagami ISO

I actually kind of agree with his opportunism. I wouldn't feel bad forcing a claim out of either Delta or Kat.

The only thing I don't like about kaze is
"Sometimes it really is that easy."

He knows we saw him post that exact phrase when he was town, and it might be an attempt to get a town metaread.

Wisdom is being wisdom and kaze is being kaze; nothing to complain about in either case. The delta push was good no matter how you look at it, though if I think Kat is more likely scum.

And you forced a claim out of Delta, gj.

Similarly kaze jumped on Delta, but that's obviously less scummy then Delta jumping on phd, and more consistent with his meta.

Wisdom

is

suspicious, just not suspicious enough for me to attack him for it; I don't have him as a town-read for a reason. In any case, Kat deserves some of the questions she's gotten, imo, and I would hardly call asking her why she ignored the wagon "jumping on her." That's pretty much the standard thing to say about whoever votes third/fourth, they either "ignored the wagon" or "brought someone to L-1 on page 1." I consider that just a move to get out of RVS


I'm actually somewhat against a wisdom lynch even if he were being significantly scummier simply because his presence generates a lot of content.

It's not like Wisdom has seriously pushed for a lynch, either, even though kaze and I has already voiced support for it, so I don't see anything particularly damning there.

Wisdom being Wisdom, Kaze being Kaze. I am not crazy, HAH!

I'm fairly sure Cit commented on Kaze meta too but meh.

P. Edit
Yes, but when you openly acknowledge that reads towards you are based on you town meta rather than actual towntells it seems as if you're just trying to find leverage on someone

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Really, the only way what he said reads is "no matter what you do, I'm obvtown and I'm not getting lynched."
Which is true, and is also how I treat scum who try to push me when I'm town. It clearly shows confident town.

No, that means he has a "mislynch anyone and get away with it because Kagami is backing me up meta-wise" card. As scum, town cred is just the best you can get which he blessed himself by supposedly acting in his meta. No one suspects (except me!) And it is easier to misrepresent someone. Following his wagons means he has "scapegoats" who has done exactly what he intended except without the town-backing he has. You.

I was thinking through potential things to happen if he manages a mislynch on either Delta or I. He could immediately jump at you or YKV. I don't think either of you are scum atm but your actions and tunneling could easily be misrepresented. Both of you.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kagami, why is Kaze town to you.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I hope I'm not the only one who notices Kagami has no actual strong scumreads and her only votes are PoE. Makes me a lot more paranoid on how possible it is to fool her metaputer. Don't want her just nudging people as town and ignoring scum tells because they acted that way before.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Because...

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Because you keep talking about how Kaze is trying to fool Kagami which is bullshit. It feels like a manipulation attempt.

Or I legitimately think Kaze's scum?

I think he's the best lynch option today. Why would I not point why he doesn't look town to those who think he does?

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kaze pushes Delta to L-1.
Nudges you to hammer, your reluctance to hammer wasn't scummy in his eyes despite being confident that Delta was scum that early.
Jumps on me for disagreeing with Delta wagon.
Scum read on me as the scum partner of Delta.
Some tunneling here and there.
Delta claims.
Jumps on Kat wagon.

Why would he drop his main read for the alleged partner read? At this point Delta is leaning towards town due to interactions and explanation, his push on me is unnecessary considering his main reason for my scum read is solely pinned on Delta.
Delta he can have a town or scum read on, I don't care. He already got out the VT claim he wanted. As scum, it's a benefit to their scum team can seeing that's a higher chance to actually snipe the PR's in this game. That's why I was against his and Kagami's whole claim or lynch play.
I don't like that he did that. He got the claim he wanted, and STILL claims that Delta and I are scum team. I'm just the only lynch out he has right now because one, my flip would give him momentum to having a scum read on you, YKV, and Cit. Your tunneling was completely unwarranted 20 pages back and yet you're still here not being productive. YKV and Cit I can see him misrepresenting for the same reason Kagami has a potential read on me (scum defending a town player so you get that "I told you so" on the flip.) It's one or the other.

I'm going through a lot of stuff right now and I have little else to say on the matter because one, he's scum. And two, no matter what I say won't change your mind so I'm appealing to less tunnelly players. I want his head on a pike.

V/LA.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I mean, I can understand wanting to draw out the other scum and wanting to solidify more reads today and such, but considering we have two investigative PRs in a 9p set up that can also get drawn out if they talk long enough, pulling the trigger as soon as possible is the optimal play here in my opinion.

---

If anyone else wants to claim intent, hammer, or whatever - go for it. Keep an eye on Wisdom day 2 for me if I don't come back with the snacks.

I wouldn't mind a claim first

, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

Does anyone know (spelled it right this time) if Delta tends not to notice jokes in Mafia?
Also I don't like YKV at all, will explain later I'm busy right now.

I actually wondered this myself. I looked through his games very briefly and didn't see any such incredible ~Wooooosh~ moments. In his one scum game, he attacks pretty fiercely just out of RVS, and this kind of looks like an attempt at a toned down version of that. Not super compelling though.

I want a claim out of Delta

before we worry about Kat. If he's scum, then I don't expect a lot of associative tells coming from is partner while his head is halfway in the noose; that's just WIFOM bait. In my view, Kat would be playing

very

clumsily as scum if she is in fact partners with delta. I would even go as far as to say Kat scum => Delta not scum, with her resistance to his wagon calculated to get towncred.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

You do realize you just quoted Kagami, right?

As for 63, it was a response to me saying that he might be a PR.

So yeah, you failed.

I am aware I quoted Kagami. I was signifying her acknowledging his response, your ignorance to everything is somewhat annoying.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

SHE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE WAS FISHING FOR A CLAIM HENCE HER REFERENCING A CLAIM ON HER OWN POST. I SWEAR TO GOD.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Wanting a claim before a hammer = rolefishing, eh?

So everyone who ever pushes any wagon to claimrange is rolefishing! It all makes perfect sense! Revelations! Soylent Green is people! It's people!

BECAUSE IT WAS A PAGE 2 WAGON NO ONE WAS GONNA DARE HAMMER.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

So did I want a claim or did I want a quicklynch? Because this implies I knew nobody would hammer.

Both cases fully benefit a scum, and you were pushing for either. You got one. If someone hammered, quicklynch. Oh wait, that's good for you.. AS SCUM. If pressure was kept on him, he would claim. Good for scum again.... ?

If nobody dared to hammer, nobody would ask him to claim. There goes your logic.

Delta are you L-1?

I am, yes.

Kaze, how does that post even help push your point?

k, claim.

Vanilla. Nothing of value other than the fact that I'm town. I'm wondering why 50% of my wagon (at least) is deciding to conveniently overlook my most recent posts in favor of a lapse in my sense of humour.

Going to call that not only scummy, but bad play, considering the 14 pages inbetween here and then.

I am now assuming that both of you are scum and are ganging up on me ATM to make me go crazy.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

So yeah. Kaze.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I watched it up until a murder was solved based on someone slipping up during the trial about someone's jacket color. I had hoped it would actually be like a solvable murder mystery.

Well the second murder (my waifu ;_;) was more of an emotional murder rather than a logical one. Just him switching up the areas wasn't really meant to cover up his tracks but more of keep a promis to Chihiro. The next murder was leagues better though!




Cit needs a hug or something

[Katarina LeBlanc]

My lynchpool remains unchanged. Kaze is still town, YKV too. I will hammer any of {wisdom, kat, citizen}, though I would like to see citizen come back with an explanation/replacement request.

re:anime - Shingeki was pretty good at first, but I disliked the pacing as it moved along. It became way too slow for the amount of content, imo. SAO was excellent. Best recent anime was Uchouten Kazoku, imo.

Sword Art Online was disgustingly bad. Almost as bad as Kaze.

People asking for the case on him when I've been ragingly putting it forward the whole game. ISO or whatever.

Delta is a bad lynch. Kaze is a good lynch, super informative one at that.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That's why I'm leaning back, yes.

I'm also thinking that it's very unlikely that neither Wisdom nor Kat are scum, which feels like good odds to me.

If he flips scum (which I'm quite positive he will), then that would round up the scumpool suspects to half in the game. I'm already looking at you, Wisdom, YKV and to a lesser extent, PhD.

If he flips town then this would probably secure that Delta, Citizen, and Jason are possibly clean.

Everyone seems to just want to sit down at Day 1 one and catch all factions of scum, that's why we can't organize a proper vote. I think Kaze is the best lynch today because one, it's easier to round up potential partners for him once he flips scum. Other lynches (such a Jason and Delta) are mostly based on gut and PLs. What happens if Delta flips town? Who do we immediately FoS on? What about Jason? Do we lynch him now just because he's not posting in the game? His "wagon" is mostly a compromise because other people aren't getting the gut scumread they want lynched.

Everyone's current scumread is a mislynch in someone else's eyes, but take to account that we do have to get someone voted out and of the current "suspect" pool. Kaze is the one who should be lynched.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Yeah Jason doesn't give the smallest

unit

of a damn about this game.

Deal with the lurker later - kill the active scum now.

Kat2013

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If he flips town then this would probably secure that Delta, Citizen, and Jason are possibly clean.

How?

Delta should be pretty obvious at this point.

Citizen is probably not a partner too!

Jason I should reread into. His inactivity played most part in him being a major scumread. But at a lot of points during the game, he's had the opportunity to do hammer or pursue another common scumread but instead goes for (?) random non-suspect players. This may be because he believes that we're all idiots that are chasing each other and that YKV or Kagami are actual scum. I just didn't really feel the interaction between him and Kaze as scummy as interaction between you and him. Like if you read back a few pages you two were bullying the fuck out of me and my feels were hurt vry mch.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If he flips town then this would probably secure that Delta, Citizen, and Jason are possibly clean.

If he flips town then this would probably secure that the three lurkers are possibly clean.

I did nothing scummy because I did absolutely nothing.

You sheeped him early in the game.
Pushing arguably the worst lynch in my eyes now (Delta).
Plus you're doing that thing where you're just saying you're town by default because no one has objected to it. Well no one is clean ever (for me) in day 1 >:o

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Can we just lynch Jason instead.

And replace Citizen.

Why

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Oh neat I'm not dead.


Oh nobody died, wat.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Why did you sub out omg.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

God damn why both of you.


Ughhh.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Go ahead.

Let me just get things clear here, I don't like that Kagami started out the day with the claim.

Well, that doesn't do much to clear you then. You are in my lynchpool because you are not Kaze, YKV, or phd, for whom I have strongish townreads, nor jason who I was weakly townreading, nor delta who is our vanilla claimant. I'm removing kat from my lynchpool.

If you haven't noticed from this and our prior game, or even through a quick meta-dip, I put very little faith in scumreads, which generally are based on traditional ms.net knowledge and beliefs that are widely enough known that they are meaningless. I find townreads radically more reliable.

I don't understand the doubt at all. She removes Delta from the lynchpool then decides to jailkeep him the same night. It's just all so odd right now that I can't really justify or trust her claim.

Kagami, why would you jailkeep Delta? Why not other targets like me, Wisdom or even Citizen M who are among your possible lynches?

I'm seriously expecting a CC at any point right now. Her bringing this out this early in the game makes it seem all too likely that she wants to have the upper hand one Delta.

I know it makes me look hella scummy for white knighting Delta (while doing so D1 as well) but I just don't like the feel of the claim at all. It seems so unnatural and panicky.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

What's the scum motivation in fakeclaiming now though?

Fakeclaiming now could possibly mean that Kagami was Jailkept tonight.

Difficult for he to mobilize once she's held down, so account for the possibility that she is caught scum and wants the actual Jailkeeper to Counter claim. Or possibly take him down with her.

or

I could be wrong and Delta could be scum, but I just really don't like this at all.

My gut can't be wrong two days in a row.... right? ;~;

Also FU Kaze for self-hammering :v

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kagami, do you have any possible partners in mind?


Also I'm not placing a vote until Delta comes in and says his piece.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If Delta flips scum, I'm jailing you tonight, kat, since you've also slipped vanilla. I would also appreciate a track on wisdom. He's got a decent chance of being the scumpartner, and would be valuable if cleared.

I'm still thinking about the best action if it was a no kill.

I don't care if I get jailkept. Even if he's scum and I get framed for the night (which I'll be pretty upset about) it doesn't really change my stance on the current events.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If Delta flips scum, I'm jailing you tonight, kat, since you've also slipped vanilla. I would also appreciate a track on wisdom. He's got a decent chance of being the scumpartner, and would be valuable if cleared.

I'm still thinking about the best action if it was a no kill.

I don't care if I get jailkept. Even if he's scum and I get framed for the night (which I'll be pretty upset about) it doesn't really change my stance on the current events.

You shouldn't care about being jailkept. The most likely action for scum is to kill me rather than no kill (which would result in your lynch), which would prove your innocence.

Well, Jailkeeping me means. The other scum (if Delta were actually the scum) would most likely go for you considering you're left exposed.

All we have is one less PR and a "cleaned" Townie. Not exactly the best trade.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

There are three possibilities and only three possibilities:

1) Scum attempted to kill Delta, but failed because he was in jail. This is incredibly unlikely because there is indeed no motivation to kill a VT.
2) Delta attempted to kill someone, but failed because he was in jail. This is certainly possible, and would mean that delta is the best lynch.
3) Scum no killed. This is also possible, but it doesn't change the best course of action. Delta is still a good lynch, and may easily be scum even if they no killed. I think that my visible annoyance with the vanilla slips would have been caught by scum and marked me as a probable PR, and if not, then PhD's universal townread might have also compelled scum to make a kill. Anyway, I've considered this possibility and still think claiming and lynching delta is the best strategy.

Why not rather build up your own case on him and let the read run through out the day? You already have the information that he's likely to be scum, why would you put yourself and your role at jeopardy?

This just seems so reckless for you to do. (Not that I'm aware of your meta but it's just, I kind of didn't expect it at all!)

Also, I think I've asked before but who are your possible partners for him? I'm aware that you have a current scumread on me because I associated myself with Delta for majority of day 1 but I want to know who else you're considering as a partner.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Why would you be a partner for Delta... ?

Like me I fully understand but, you?

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I think you're missing the point, kat.

I'm planning to jail you not only because you're a possible scumpartner, but because I'm confident you aren't the tracker.

Wisdom is a very strong scum player and a pretty good town leader if conf-towned. Both these things make him a great tracker target if delta flips scum. Delta could easily have other partners, such as jason-slot or citizen-slot, but that would be something that would have to get sorted out later. I should be NKed by that point anyway.

I want to decide as much as possible with the certainty of night actions, and leave the town in the strongest possible state.

If delta is not scum, then things are obviously trickier and I'll rely on reads to figure out my night action.

Well I don't like that plan (when Delta flips scum that is) because you'd be wasting your Jailkeep on me. I'm fully aware of how things will resolve and I don't like it. The situation you proposed would leave you vulnerable for a night kill which I just can't bare to watch you do so as town.

I acknowledge that I might pass off as a possible scumpartner to Delta (heck, I'm still doubting you) but I just didn't find any reason for him to be lynched yesterday. If anything, the best possible scumpartner for him is likely to be

Citizen M

's slot.

I followed my gut on Kaze (who self-hammered like a butt, thanks jerk you totally ruined the L-1 position I can't even) and I was wrong.

If Delta flips town, then I think

Wisdom

should be the best target for you.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Happy New Years btw, everyone. (It's the 31st-1st here!)

[Celebrating intensifies]

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Those people aren't useful jail targets. There's little value in clearing lurkers. If Delta flips scum, I want you and wisdom either found clear or guilty. I know you aren't the tracker, therefore you are spending tonight in jail.

I'm not going to broadcast my target if delta flips town for obvious reasons.

Happy new year~

I don't want you to die by jail keeping me

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Why would I, as someone who drew alot of negative attention in day one decide to perform the kill instead of my partnrr if I was scum?

WIFOM

Also, doesn't Roleblocking any part of the scum team immediately cancel out all the Mafia actions for the night? That's how it worked in the Mafia game I played.

Explain why YKV is scum.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

No you have to block the specific person who is doing the kill

Oh, that sucks.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

If Delta flips scum which seems like the most likely outcome at this point I'm fine basically calling these players town. Kagami, YellowKingValley/penguin_alien, Kazekirimaru, Citizen M/Maestro Because these were the people on Delta's L-1 wagon so unless the scum partner is absolutely insane to lynch their team mate day1.

So the lynch pool for tomorrow should be this. PhDScar, Katarina LeBlanc, JasonWazza, Wisdom

Help, how to bus.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

The early Delta wagon was prolonged so much that it lost traction, the moment he claimed everyone backed off. (Wisdom and Kaze that is). Wisdom the one who pushed for the final claim with his vote on Delta. Keep in mind that Wisdom had the opportunity to lynch one of his top scumreads at any point during day 1 considering he along with Kaze and YKV were the ones pushing the wagon so hard but he didn't actually place a vote on him until it was to get the claim out.

Just something to consider.

VOTE: Delta L-1.

@ Kagami

What if that was actually my plan to look non-PRish >:o

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Kat, if delta flips scum, nothing will dissuade me from putting you in jail tonight. That's just what will happen. I hope also that the tracker will track wisdom.

Well, as a townie I completely don't like that decision at all. Playing it out on my head it just ends up with you dead which I can't really accept at the cost of cleaning me.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I don't see why it bothers you at all. If Kagami dies, you are cleared, and one more person will also be cleared by the tracker. The scumpool will be reduced to like 2 people with the tracker still hidden and plenty of mislynches to use.

I'd rather she has a chance of Jailkeeping a scum, or at least claim to clean someone else rather than me.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Well, it's most likely that you were Jailkept though.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Why?

oi katarina

Why would you prefer someone else get cleared by Kagami instead of you?

Because I know I'm town, I mean even she herself said that I'm acting like a VT and stuff, right? If she Jailkeeps someone other than me then it ends up being a No Kill then she might save herself, or even possibly clean someone else other than me.

Try to see it from POV. I'd rather have Kagami Jailkeep someone else to have a chance at her gut to nab the last scum (if Delta is bad) or just clean a different player in town. I don't like losing that opportunity just for me to be cleaned. Maybe because when I'm cleaned for whatever I won't be able to make good decisions and I'll end up losing it for the town.

(Yes I'm

that

insecure.)

I can take remaining as a scumread for the next day. You yourself said we have mislynches to afford.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That makes no sense, katarina. You're either not thinking properly or are scum. We'll know tomorrow.

How does it make no sense at all :v

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Oh hey we won.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

>In the event that the town lynch mafia on D1, it should be somewhat difficult for mafia to win, given that Trackers and Jailkeepers are both particularly potent roles when facing only one scum. It might be in mafia's interest to no-kill in this scenario until they find the Tracker and/or Jailkeeper to make a slightly safer kill.

I was doubting Kagami a lot so a Delta CC might've opened up for more.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

I was defending scum the whole time so I apologize to Kaze Q-Q

Still a bit mad that you guys expected stuff to be "that obvious"