Micro 273: There is Trouble in Paradise (Game Over)

[YellowKingValley]

@PhDScar, Kat,
for my post 52 asking Wisdom to early hammer, it is definitely manipulation if I'm asking some newbie to do it, but Wisdom is no newbie.

Hey don't abandon Delta wagon before he answers... I'll make my case after he answer...

I didn't say anything about you manipulating people. I said it seemed like you were going for an easy lynch, without brining your own reasons and buddying Kaze.

P-edit @YKV this is a question that has nothing to do with the game but do I troll post/ troll post often?

Sorry, but still applies to Kat's statement.

From my less-than-a-single game with you? Didn't notice any. I don't meta anyways. But is it within your ability to post stuff with veiled jokes/sarcasm? My answer is yes. Did Delta thought the same? I do not know. He fled after answering a question from Wisdom which allowed him freedom to make excuses but ignored mine which asked specific questions.

Easy lynch? The remaining non-voters are not newbies/noobs. Screaming Delta is scum, please hammer, lets end day early woo hoo will obviously not appeal to the remaining voters - Jason, Wisdom, Citizen, Kat. I find his "mistake" particularly missing your second "because posting" highly suspicious. Was already said by others anyway. Worth putting extreme pressure on him and possibly his buddy.

Won't give my detailed reasons for voting him before he answers.

Buddying Kaze eh... well scum buddies for a few reason:
1) Endear themselves to a townie to control their votes
2) Look towny to a PR to avoid being investigated
3) Gain trust of a town leader before killing him at night and usurp his place
4) Infiltrate a town bloc
Did my "buddying" try achieve any of the above objectives, or any others that you can think of? If not that is not buddying.

[Kagami]

I think her confidence that Delta is not scum is unreasonable, and her belief that kaze is scum is inconsistent with that, since the best argument against Kaze is that he did almost exactly what Delta did.

[PhDScar]

Buddying Kaze eh... well scum buddies for a few reason:
1) Endear themselves to a townie to control their votes
2) Look towny to a PR to avoid being investigated
3) Gain trust of a town leader before killing him at night and usurp his place
4) Infiltrate a town bloc
Did my "buddying" try achieve any of the above objectives, or any others that you can think of? If not that is not buddying.

Well this is just a generalization, but 2,3, and 4 could in away apply. He might be a PR, with the way he pushed the lynch and a lot of people seemed to agree with him he could arguably have been a town leader in that moment, and this could allow you easy access to a town block later.

But more importantly a 5th reason you left out was that it makes Kase less likely to vote you, and more likely to defend you.

[YellowKingValley]

I think her confidence that Delta is not scum is unreasonable, and her belief that kaze is scum is inconsistent with that, since the best argument against Kaze is that he did almost exactly what Delta did.

What about not convinced enough that Delta is scum to vote him and instead find Kaze (also me) suspicious for asking hammers, thus suspicious of the whole wagon? And I hope that you are not deceived by a lot of misreps Wisdom added in.

[YellowKingValley]

Well this is just a generalization, but 2,3, and 4 could in away apply. He might be a PR, with the way he pushed the lynch and a lot of people seemed to agree with him he could arguably have been a town leader in that moment, and this could allow you easy access to a town block later.

But more importantly a 5th reason you left out was that it makes Kase less likely to vote you, and more likely to defend you.

I'll skip 2, 3, 4 for the timebeing. 5 is same as 1 yeah.

[RachMarie]

The first day is just barely started, and in the first hours already much heated debate of who the blood mages could be has happened. Clearly the town council has a great deal invested in figuring them out before they commit murder most foul....



Vote Count 1.01

Deltabacon (3) Kazekirimaru, Kagami, YellowKingValley (L-2)
Kazekirimaru (1) Citizen M
PhDScar (1) Deltabacon
Citizen M (1) JasonWazza
Kagami (1) Katarina LeBlanc
YellowKingValley (1) PhDScar,
Katarina LeBlanc (1) Wisdom



Not Voting



With 9 it takes 5 to lynch


Deadline is in (expired on 2013-12-27 01:09:33)



Mod notes:

Thanks to YKV for stopping the olive font it was hard on my eyes with the MafSepia skin.

JasonWazza is not yet in prod range.

For the most part liking the activity though ya all dont have to be QUITE this active.... I will do my best to keep up with vote counts though.

[YellowKingValley]

Thanks to YKV for stopping the olive font it was hard on my eyes with the MafSepia skin.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Wisdom is being wisdom and kaze is being kaze; nothing to complain about in either case. The delta push was good no matter how you look at it, though if I think Kat is more likely scum.

Eww meta.

The reason the Delta push happened was bad. Joke posts turned serious all too fast.
The Delta push is good because as you said it pushed us out of RVS and gave us the most to work with.
The Delta hammer is bad. People are not justifying it at all. The best everyone has is

"Wait does he joke around in his games?"

. I'm a lost sheep when it comes to metas but pardon me for disagreeing and using common sense!

I think her confidence that Delta is not scum is unreasonable, and her belief that kaze is scum is inconsistent with that, since the best argument against Kaze is that he did almost exactly what Delta did.

u avin a giggle m8? I've already said I'm unsure on what Delta's stance in this game is. I never said he was town, I just said that everyone's biggest scumtell on him was taking a joke post seriously. That's literally the only reason I see this wagon on him. Unless someone clarifies why I should think otherwise then I don't see the reason in calling him confirmed scum. You're all silly.

I think what YKV and Kaze did were both smart while scummy at the same time. Their #56 and #59 towards Wisdom made me wonder about his intentions towards the lynch. Made it seem like he had no intent to lynch. Like right now he's already wussed out :3

You don't have a confident scumtell on someone, then back off because he

might

be a PR. That to me looks like he's town trying to get a reaction (which he did out of me, I admit). Or scum who pushed for Delta a bit too hard that backfired on him and now he has to save ass because he can't push this lynch without looking scummy.

Either way, only YKV and Kaze had the most to salvage out of either possibility. And my gut leans towards Kaze because his avatar looks all mean and suspicious and all.

[Kazekirimaru]

Avatartells are legit.

Kat, mind humoring me with a T/S list so I can see where exactly you're standing at the moment?

[Kagami]

You realize that the reason we jumped on delta was not that he took the joke post seriously, right Kat? Taking the joke seriously is obviously null. The problem is that he was very quick to jump on the first little "scummy" thing that he saw (which unfortunately for him was a joke that he didn't get), together with his awkward reactions when called on it.

[YellowKingValley]

The problem is that he was very quick to jump on the first little "scummy" thing that he saw

What about Wisdom then? Jumping on Kat for not following the wagon. I don't see you finding him suspicious...

[YellowKingValley]

The problem is that he was very quick to jump on the first little "scummy" thing that he saw

What about Wisdom then? Jumping on Kat for not following the wagon. I don't see you finding him suspicious...

I mean Jason's wagon...

And oh... PhD, I'm buddying Kat. On a unrelated note, 6) If caught as scum, drag your scapegoat town buddy down together.

[Kagami]

Similarly kaze jumped on Delta, but that's obviously less scummy then Delta jumping on phd, and more consistent with his meta.

Wisdom

is

suspicious, just not suspicious enough for me to attack him for it; I don't have him as a town-read for a reason. In any case, Kat deserves some of the questions she's gotten, imo, and I would hardly call asking her why she ignored the wagon "jumping on her." That's pretty much the standard thing to say about whoever votes third/fourth, they either "ignored the wagon" or "brought someone to L-1 on page 1." I consider that just a move to get out of RVS


I'm actually somewhat against a wisdom lynch even if he were being significantly scummier simply because his presence generates a lot of content.

It's not like Wisdom has seriously pushed for a lynch, either, even though kaze and I has already voiced support for it, so I don't see anything particularly damning there.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

Avatartells are legit.

Kat, mind humoring me with a T/S list so I can see where exactly you're standing at the moment?

I'm laying down at the moment.

You realize that the reason we jumped on delta was not that he took the joke post seriously, right Kat? Taking the joke seriously is obviously null. The problem is that he was very quick to jump on the first little "scummy" thing that he saw (which unfortunately for him was a joke that he didn't get), together with his awkward reactions when called on it.

His awkward reactions are bad but not confirmed scum bad. Not at this early stage of the game. Not going to let you get away with

"Sometimes it's that easy."

Similarly kaze jumped on Delta, but that's obviously less scummy then Delta jumping on phd, and more consistent with his meta.

Wisdom

is

suspicious, just not suspicious enough for me to attack him for it; I don't have him as a town-read for a reason. In any case, Kat deserves some of the questions she's gotten, imo, and I would hardly call asking her why she ignored the wagon "jumping on her." That's pretty much the standard thing to say about whoever votes third/fourth, they either "ignored the wagon" or "brought someone to L-1 on page 1." I consider that just a move to get out of RVS


I'm actually somewhat against a wisdom lynch even if he were being significantly scummier simply because his presence generates a lot of content.

It's not like Wisdom has seriously pushed for a lynch, either, even though kaze and I has already voiced support for it, so I don't see anything particularly damning there.

Wisdom said he was confirmed scum in his books, how does claiming that

not

have intent to lynch? But I agree, I don't think Wisdom lynch is the best course today.

[JasonWazza]

Post.

I only read the first 3 pages and this last page so far.

YKV, you are officially the village idiot.

It's not like Wisdom has seriously pushed for a lynch, either, even though kaze and I has already voiced support for it, so I don't see anything particularly damning there.

Wisdom said he was confirmed scum in his books, how does claiming that

not

have intent to lynch? But I agree, I don't think Wisdom lynch is the best course today.

If he really believed Delta was scum, why didn't he vote?

People REACT to being called scum and having wagons on them, and because they react we can decide between ourselves whether it's a town or a scum reaction.

Also calling someone scum =/= intent to hammer. That has got to be the most stupid thing i have heard.

[Katarina LeBlanc]

That to me looks like he's town trying to get a reaction (which he did out of me, I admit). Or scum who pushed for Delta a bit too hard that backfired on him and now he has to save ass because he can't push this lynch without looking scummy.

My read on Wisdom.

[YellowKingValley]

I only read the first 3 pages and this last page so far.

Then I advise you to read the rest before commenting. Your defense of Wisdom is way off mark. Me being village idiot is correct. So keep it that way .

If he really believed Delta was scum, why didn't he vote?

Wisdom consistently call Delta's play scummy. Yet did not vote. Yet did not ask for claim.
And further he tunneled on Kat for ignoring Delta's flash wagon (by then L-1) and for not finding Delta's play scummy enough.
Let's see if you can justify any town motivation from his actions...

People REACT to being called scum and having wagons on them, and because they react we can decide between ourselves whether it's a town or a scum reaction.

You are doing it wrong if you think calling other scum for false reasons is town motivated (referring to Wisdom's pressure on Kat). And what further wagon do you expect for Delta who is on L-1?

Also calling someone scum =/= intent to hammer. That has got to be the most stupid thing i have heard.

Not when you call others scum for similar behaviour in the meantime.

[YellowKingValley]

Post.

I hope to hear something substantial from you in the next 48 hours thanks. If you are busy do inform us.

[Wisdom]

wow, the misreps this game

[Wisdom]

Wisdom claimed Delta is scum without voting nor

pushing

.

No pushing? Really? What are 42, 77, 87 and 88?
The only one Delta answered to was 42.
As for the voting, don't put him at L-1 on page 3 next time if you want me to vote him.

And I hope that you are not deceived by a lot of misreps Wisdom added in.

What misreps? How is anything I have said about Katarina a misrep?

What about Wisdom then? Jumping on Kat for not following the wagon.

My point was that Katarina completely ignored the wagon and fluffposted, not that she didn't join it. But you do have a point in comparing the two actions, and it makes me think that Delta could actually be just town trying to get reactions from Phd in order to move forward, like I initially did with Katarina.

Wisdom consistently call Delta's play scummy. Yet did not vote. Yet did not ask for claim.

What part of "we don't need a lynch this early" you don't get? And we don't need a claim either. What we do need is Delta to post more so we can develop our read on him. And for that he needs pushing.

And further he tunneled on Kat for ignoring Delta's flash wagon (by then L-1) and for not finding Delta's play scummy enough.

I never said the latter.
I am scumreading Kat for ignoring two wagons, for continiously misrepping people, and most notably for arguing Kaze was opportunistic for pushing Delta without having even judged what Delta did herself. Not finding Delta scummy is weird, but not scummy. Though, like Kagami said, it could be an indication of WKing a person who looks like he will get lynched in order to get cred.

You are doing it wrong if you think calling other scum for false reasons is town motivated (referring to Wisdom's pressure on Kat).

Do explain how my reasons on Katarina are false.

Not when you call others scum for similar behaviour in the meantime.

Kat's behavior was not similar to Delta's, and even if it was, I would not hammer Delta when Kat is also potentional scum and makes little sense as scum with Delta. Or when it's page 3.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom said he was confirmed scum in his books, how does claiming that not have intent to lynch?

I never said such a thing - I specifically said I am not convinced. Here:

I am not convinced, but it's very likely that he is scum.

So why are you still misrepping?

[Kazekirimaru]

You know, Wisdom...

If he didn't, then why did he reply in a serious fashion?

If you want me to revert back to RVS, let me know.

To make scum like you react like you did

Delta was at a mere L-3 when this statement was made. I can understand not hammering on page 3, but why not vote at that point? I'm curious.

[Kazekirimaru]

Considering your main reason for staying off the Delta wagon seems to be not wanting to hammer, and you had suspicion + ample opportunity to vote him before L-1, it looks kinda poor now that I'm thinking about it.

[Wisdom]

I posted 42 to get a reaction from him. When none came, I went to sleep. Next time I checked the thread, he was at L-1.

[YellowKingValley]

You started your case against Kat just because she did not put JasonWazza at L-1 during RVS.

Spoiler: Exhibit 1

VOTE: JasonWazza Long time no see!

I smelt blood...

VOTE: JasonWazza

A wild wagon has appeared!

VOTE: JasonWazza

VOTE: Kagami

Someone with a cuter avatar than mine? Unacceptable.

VOTE: katarina
ignoring the wagon

And apparently you are serious...

Spoiler: Exhibit 2

Katarina why did you ignore the Jason wagon?

Why should I care at RVS?

Why not?

Burden of the response was on you.

No, it's actually on you. You merely dodged the question with "lolrvs".

I presumed you suspected Kat-Jason link (well, you need to start scumhunting from somewhere...), which is perfectly legit play. If your accusation is that Kat is scum for preventing L-1 wagon... I don't see how preventing early L-1 works in favor towards scum, and if that is the case, the proceeding voters are scummy too.

Then the Delta flash wagon. Kat acknowledge the wagon exist but didn't comment on it.

Spoiler: Exhibit 3

No, it's actually on you. You merely dodged the question with "lolrvs".

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.


Also, did I miss from this Bacon wagon?

Did you miss it? Nope. Still rolling.

Damn. Page three. My dreams are thoroughly crushed.

To make scum like you react like you did

Please hammer! Since you called him scum and have yet to vote.

I don't like that katarina ninja vanished.

I went to bed *sniffle*

You don't like her ignoring the Jason wagon (are you serious?) and not commenting on Delta wagon (which can be scummy, so you are on the right track).

Spoiler: Exhibit 4

And now you're ignoring the delta wagon on top of that and it's not RVS. So?

pedit: I'm not lynching on p3.

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.

Why feigning? There is a reason people wagon in RVS and that's to get reactions and get the game started. It looks like that's what you wanted to avoid.

As you said, the it's RVS. The votes have no meaning nor does any reaction you try to get. The reactions you get from there are standardized to make it look like someone is scumhunting and trying to make something out of votes that don't carry at all in that game (specifically that wagon and not this L-1).

Why should I try to intervene and get into something not worth investing on. Avoiding it doesn't mean I object to the wagon, I'd say so myself. I just simply don't care.

I wouldn't mind a claim first, I just kinda doubt it'll change the outcome. I very much doubt they're anything but scum.

This is pretty bad, js!

However, I find skipping JasonWazza bandwagon to avoid stupid early L-1 normal, in fact voting anyone including herself is normal.

But there was not even a comment on it. She just completely ignored it.

And yes I agree with your Delta ones.

And now you're ignoring the delta wagon on top of that and it's not RVS. So?

Btw, this.
She is now ignoring the Delta wagon too.

Apparently she is apprehensive of the wagon. Suspects that there are scum aboard on the wagon (not surprising since it's a flash wagon Kaze and YKV are bloodthirsty). Don't think claiming will help much. I think she suspects Wisdom is up to no good and tries to use her for his evil deeds.

Spoiler: Exhibit 5

I'm not a fan of this Bacon wagon. Wisdom is just prodding the the bull without actually doing anything productive. If you were confident he was scum then you'd hammer it without a wince. Fishing for a claim at this point won't make us achieve anything. If there were scum on this wagon I'd say it was

Kazekimaru

Why would I hammer on page fucking four? Will delta go anywhere if I let him flail for some more so I can be more sure?

And "fishing" for a claim? Really?

I'm tired. Will stop now. Look forward to my interesting analysis in Exhibit 6. Until next time...