Micro 273: There is Trouble in Paradise (Game Over)

[Wisdom]

/confirm

[Wisdom]

VOTE: katarina
ignoring the wagon

[Wisdom]

Katarina why did you ignore the Jason wagon?

[Wisdom]

Why not?

[Wisdom]

No, it's actually on you. You merely dodged the question with "lolrvs".

[Wisdom]

PhD is town

[Wisdom]

To make scum like you react like you did

[Wisdom]

That was the appropriate response, didn't really want to get into that state where you're feigning scumhunting from something as unnecessary as this. L pls.

Why feigning? There is a reason people wagon in RVS and that's to get reactions and get the game started. It looks like that's what you wanted to avoid.

[Wisdom]

And now you're ignoring the delta wagon on top of that and it's not RVS. So?

pedit: I'm not lynching on p3.

[Wisdom]

Why are you encouraging an early hammer? What if delta is actually a PR?

[Wisdom]

I don't really agree with your given translations in regards to Jason. Do some for catarina instead

[Wisdom]

However, I find skipping JasonWazza bandwagon to avoid stupid early L-1 normal, in fact voting anyone including herself is normal.

But there was not even a comment on it. She just completely ignored it.

And yes I agree with your Delta ones.

[Wisdom]

And now you're ignoring the delta wagon on top of that and it's not RVS. So?

Btw, this.
She is now ignoring the Delta wagon too.

[Wisdom]

57 is addressed to her, so I did ask her.

I am not convinced, but it's very likely that he is scum.

[Wisdom]

(until he says he was joking I'm still pretty sure I wasn't misrepping

Really?
So "he is scum because he is... posting" does not make it clear that it's trolling?

[Wisdom]

Why would I hammer on page fucking four? Will delta go anywhere if I let him flail for some more so I can be more sure?

[Wisdom]

And "fishing" for a claim? Really?

[Wisdom]

Also do explain why delta is town and why kaze is scum. You're merely trying to paint people as scummy without doing any scumhunting.

(still @katarina)

[Wisdom]

How am I pushing his wagon on you? I don't want you to hammer him. I was stating you are ignoring it.

You are not sure about delta yet you state you don't like his wagon AND look for scum on it? How does that work?

[Wisdom]

I don't see how what you quoted from kaze is scummy either. Looks like town confident in his scumread to me.

[Wisdom]

You opportunistically voted the first thing you thought you could push, that's why it's scummy.

[Wisdom]

And I don't buy you thought he is serious. Again, how is his "he's scum because he's posting" anything other than trolling?

[Wisdom]

No, it doesn't. Since the first sentence is not a question.

[Wisdom]

Once more, you're dodging. You said you don't like the delta wagon and you stated who you think is scum on the wagon (right after delta said there are scum on his wagon, no less). That means you think he is town, so you're lying about being unsure.

[Wisdom]

before you want me to agree

Still misrepping me? Where did I want you to agree? What I do want you to do is explain why he is not scum instead of lying that that's not what you're doing.

[Wisdom]

saying*

[Wisdom]

And wait a second..!
You are calling kaze opportunistic in pushing delta without knowing and without having judged for yourself what delta did? Then how do you know whether kaze is right or not?

[Wisdom]

There are three misreps in your post.
1) "PR or die" is a complete misrep of what kaze said. Kaze was confident delta is scum, I asked him why he's so hasty and doesn't consider the scenario delta is a PR, he said he doesn't because he's confident delta is scum. Absolutely nothing scummy about this, btw.

2) I have been pushing nothing on to you. I showed how you were avoiding to comment on the two wagons, not the fact you didn't join them. You only stated your thoughts on the wagon when I had already called you out on it, so that's a lie.

3) my stance on the wagon is completely clear. I think delta is scum. I have not hammered because it's early and there's no reason to.

[Wisdom]

Also, what Delta did as severely blown out of proportion,

Explain.

[Wisdom]

None of these replies tried to argue what I said is wrong, so I suppose you're accepting your fate.

(@katarina)

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom, I don't think I trust you after all... and why hammer before intent?

What?

[Wisdom]

I have asked questions to delta, they haven't been answered yet.

[Wisdom]

Wait so I'm scum for not thinking this one guy is scum? Damn, that's a solid case you guys got here.

Nobody said such a thing.

[Wisdom]

YKV is playing like I remember him in that one game where everyone was a random role and he was a Town Guard. Micro 239, I think?

I was scum in that game!

[Wisdom]

Kat scum => Delta not scum,

That's another reason I'm against lynching delta right now. There is a chance delta is just scummy town, with katarina being the actual scum with someone else.

[Wisdom]

Because if he's a PR, we're obviously not lynching him unless there's a counterclaim.

You have still not explained why Delta is town (or why he's not scum, or why the reasons given were insufficient, or why Kaze was opportunistic scum for pushing him, etc etc. Word it however you want.

[Wisdom]

@Katarina
No, you just said something that was incorrect. Kaze never said anything like "PR or die". You are either misrepping it on purpose or have misunderstood it - if the latter, I believe it has been explained enough to you and you should go back and realize you're wrong instead of making yourself look even worse by repeating it.

Scum might get caught in their first post. It happens sometimes. It doesn't matter if it's RVS or not. It's the motive behind what was posted that matters.

@Citizen
Explain your vote.

[Wisdom]

What opportunism are you talking about exactly?

[Wisdom]

Aggression is related to playstyle and has no bearing on alignment. Unless you can prove that he is not aggressive as town over a large span of games.

pedit:
Why do you find that opportunistic? Do you disagree that Delta and Kat have been scummy? Why couldn't he just be town confident in his scumreads?

[Wisdom]

You're wrong. Lots of players are quite confident in their reads as town.

[Wisdom]

It was not from RVS, but from the reactions to it. And I ask you again, do you disagree that delta and Kat are scummy?

[Wisdom]

on the basis of nothing

So you don't find Delta voting Phd like he did, despite the obvious trolling, a possible opportunism?

[Wisdom]

And you don't find Katarina's posts scummy at all either?

[Wisdom]

So saying "Wisdom-scum posts. Right now he is posting. So he is scum" is not obvious trolling? Really?

Wow.

[Wisdom]

Or "I have ONE game with Wisdom and I know everything about his meta" is not obvious trolling?

Really, people?

[Wisdom]

Anyway, Citizen having that opinion proves that Delta could be town. I suggest letting Delta be for now.

[Wisdom]

Maybe, but you wouldn't be claiming to know everything about their meta like PhD put it. It was an obvious joke.

[Wisdom]

The reason I didn't like Delta was I thought he tried to push the first scummy-looking thing he found. I believe it is genuine that he didn't realize it's a joke-

Oh, right. I get what you're saying. Nvm what I said about letting him be.

[Wisdom]

wow, the misreps this game

[Wisdom]

Wisdom claimed Delta is scum without voting nor

pushing

.

No pushing? Really? What are 42, 77, 87 and 88?
The only one Delta answered to was 42.
As for the voting, don't put him at L-1 on page 3 next time if you want me to vote him.

And I hope that you are not deceived by a lot of misreps Wisdom added in.

What misreps? How is anything I have said about Katarina a misrep?

What about Wisdom then? Jumping on Kat for not following the wagon.

My point was that Katarina completely ignored the wagon and fluffposted, not that she didn't join it. But you do have a point in comparing the two actions, and it makes me think that Delta could actually be just town trying to get reactions from Phd in order to move forward, like I initially did with Katarina.

Wisdom consistently call Delta's play scummy. Yet did not vote. Yet did not ask for claim.

What part of "we don't need a lynch this early" you don't get? And we don't need a claim either. What we do need is Delta to post more so we can develop our read on him. And for that he needs pushing.

And further he tunneled on Kat for ignoring Delta's flash wagon (by then L-1) and for not finding Delta's play scummy enough.

I never said the latter.
I am scumreading Kat for ignoring two wagons, for continiously misrepping people, and most notably for arguing Kaze was opportunistic for pushing Delta without having even judged what Delta did herself. Not finding Delta scummy is weird, but not scummy. Though, like Kagami said, it could be an indication of WKing a person who looks like he will get lynched in order to get cred.

You are doing it wrong if you think calling other scum for false reasons is town motivated (referring to Wisdom's pressure on Kat).

Do explain how my reasons on Katarina are false.

Not when you call others scum for similar behaviour in the meantime.

Kat's behavior was not similar to Delta's, and even if it was, I would not hammer Delta when Kat is also potentional scum and makes little sense as scum with Delta. Or when it's page 3.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom said he was confirmed scum in his books, how does claiming that not have intent to lynch?

I never said such a thing - I specifically said I am not convinced. Here:

I am not convinced, but it's very likely that he is scum.

So why are you still misrepping?

[Wisdom]

I posted 42 to get a reaction from him. When none came, I went to sleep. Next time I checked the thread, he was at L-1.

[Wisdom]

because she did not put JasonWazza at L-1 during RVS

Do you know the meaning of the word "ignoring"?

[Wisdom]

RVS is there to get telling reactions. In order to accelerate this process, many times there are wagons in RVS (like the Jason one). People react to these differently, and that's the first telling reactions of the game that will move the game forward.

As scum, the best thing to do is either comment on such a wagon in a townish way to leave a first good impression, many times even join it in order to look like you are helping gathering information (therefore you are being pro-town). Not every scum is skilled enough to know that though, so sometimes scum will just avoid the wagons altogether, as to avoid leaving telling reactions. The thing is that doing that is a telling reaction in itself.

Of course, there is always the chance that a townie will also ignore the wagon and just do what someone is supposed to do in RVS - random vote. Which is why you cannot be completely sure someone is scum just from that and you need to further explore such a player. But it's a place to start.

[Wisdom]

My problem right now is that I cannot find a partner for Katarina.
YKV, Phd, Kaze, Kagami and Jason all look town to me.
Citizen came and produced a belief almost identical to Katarina's - "Kaze is opportunistic" and "I don't see how Delta was scummy". I think it's too blatant for them to be scumbuddies.
And Delta, while scummy, doesn't make that much sense for her buddy given how she reacted to his wagon. Though it's not impossible, given she didn't completely defend him either.

[Wisdom]

Why would I look silly for pushing my scumread?

[Wisdom]

Good vibes from his post

[Wisdom]

You were wrong.

[Wisdom]

no
I just felt good reading his post
Maybe the fact he was agreeing with me had something to do with it

[Wisdom]

Yeah, it could be.

[Wisdom]

I couldn't understand how he didn't see the obvious trolling, but Citizen also not seeing it proved it was possible not to see it.

[Wisdom]

I don't know, I just find scummy anything that I think doesn't make sense

[Wisdom]

I have, but I still always expect people to think like I do.

[Wisdom]

Look, the thing I found him scummy for was what I said in 87. 88 was just something that I thought was not making sense because in my eyes it was too obvious that Phd was trolling. I didn't stop to think if that actually makes him scum or not, I just threw that in as well because it didn't make sense to me and whatever doesn't make sense annoys me. Of course I did and do expect to see reactions to these posts, but no, it wasn't purposefully "difficult". It's just what I felt.

[Wisdom]

.... is wisdom scum?...... probably

And why is that?

[Wisdom]

Because I thought for a moment that the reason I was accusing delta was invalid. But then I realized that actually wasn't the reason.

[Wisdom]

I'm not voting delta

[Wisdom]

Delta backed off immediately and parroted me once I stepped in. Cute.

And you saw that just now..?

[Wisdom]

Nah, I like you being lynchbait. You've won me two scumgames. <3

[Wisdom]

Anyway, I don't like Citizen either. But his play could be just a fucked up way to play town, so eh.

[Wisdom]

I have done nothing scummy in this game

You are in no position to judge whether you appear scummy or not to others. Trust me, you do.

[Wisdom]

Kaze what do you think about Citizen?

[Wisdom]

If Citizen is scum, would you find Citizen/Delta or Citizen/Kat more likely?

[Wisdom]

(@kaze)

[Wisdom]

Kaze is the only person posting ATM that I can read and he seems bad to me (because of his weird opportunism and stuff like it).

See, my problem is that Citizen entered with this, which is sheeping Kat's position on things. I don't know if he would do that if he was scum with Kat.

[Wisdom]

Citizen/Delta would make more sense, with Citizen sheeping the townie who doesn't agree with the Delta wagon.

[Wisdom]

Jason, what are your thoughts on people who aren't Kagami?

[Wisdom]

Jason, what are your thoughts on people who aren't Kagami?

[Wisdom]

wisdom you only think im scum because im voting you

nope

[Wisdom]

How is kagami scummier than delta or katarina?

And why is citizen town?

[Wisdom]

Who are you talking about?

[Wisdom]

I have no clue, you don't make any sense.

[Wisdom]

If nothing else, this paranoia is what makes kagami town. Why do you think otherwise, Jason?

[Wisdom]

Delta, thoughts on everyone else?

[Wisdom]

That's kinda what I was thinking but I wanted to let Citizen reply to it on his own. I think that he defines 'meta' as looking up past games, while he doesn't consider experiential meta (experience from having played with people) as meta. As such, there's no contradiction.

[Wisdom]

Experiential meta (Using your experience from having played with people before) is also meta. For some people (like me), it's actually the only form of meta used.

[Wisdom]

you know what also pisses me off: the idea that you have to

1. have a top suspect at all times

and 2. vote that suspect at all times


how stupid

Not sure what the point of this post is or how it's related to anything?

[Wisdom]

I guess I can buy citizen-town

Maybe it's just delta/katarina then.

[Wisdom]

How do you expect the wagon to go anywhere if you don't put in any effort to show us why we should vote her?

[Wisdom]

Yup

[Wisdom]

Then Delta lynch looks better and better. For every scummy player, delta looks like the most likely partner to me.

Why couldn't it be, say, Katarina/Jason?

[Wisdom]

and now he's on a wagon having only scumvotes?

I don't think that means anything. Katarina has been voting you since RVS, it's even possible that Jason didn't even remember that was the case.

[Wisdom]

Jason's not uncomfy with butting heads with people so I'll roll with him being town.

He's not uncomfy with doing that as scum either, so

btw, no read on me?

[Wisdom]

Also, do you think Citizen is town now? You didn't explain your unvoting.

[Wisdom]

What actually troubles me is Citizen not caring about Kaze's confident attitude, despite his earlier "town cannot be confident".

[Wisdom]

Delta are you L-1?

[Wisdom]

k, claim.

[Wisdom]

k, not hammering. I think scum would definitely claim a PR given the situation their partner will be after they are lynched. May as well out one PR.

[Wisdom]

The one I'm voting, Phd.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, what do you think of Citizen and Kaze from their posts this page?

Citizen is troubling me for the reason I said.
Kaze is confident town tunneling.

[Wisdom]

It's a possibility, but I'm not quite confident on Jason. I am on Katarina.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom likely to be VI.

Please guys. Vote Katarina already.

[Wisdom]

Can someone explain why they think Kat is town?
Not why they don't see why she is scum or why they don't understand the wagon on her;
Just why they think she is town.

[Wisdom]

How?

[Wisdom]

I'll try, after someone who is against the Kat wagon explains why she is town.

[Wisdom]

So you consider yourself such obvtown that I am a VI for tunneling on you?

[Wisdom]

So you consider yourself such obvtown that I am a VI for tunneling on you?

[Wisdom]

Reason you're VI is because you're needlessly pushing without any ideal motivation or reasoning when asked.

That's funny, I'm pretty sure I explained why you are scum many pages ago.

[Wisdom]

Nope

[Wisdom]

The site was down, that's why

[Wisdom]

Citizen-Kat as the most probable scumpair.

:/
The way Citizen sheeped Kat when he came in the thread.. I doubt they're buddies.

[Wisdom]

I also don't think Jason is scum based on those reactions

Don't agree. Jason is good with reactions.

[Wisdom]

If you specify what things, I might be able to help you.

[Wisdom]

-471 rubs me the wrong way. Because of the framing, there's not a very good way to answer, and I would be unsurprised if a townie answers it in a "scummy" way. In short, it feels like a trap question.

It kind of is. My intention was to show that her calling me VI is bullshit. I did not really expect to change my mind, regardless of her answer. Still, I didn't like her ignoring me, so I made her answer.

-463 is a weird question as well. It's limiting the ways to say "kat is potentially town" for no clear reason. Both failing to understand the wagon on her and not seeing her as scum seem like reasonable counterarguments to me.

There have been at least two people who "don't get the Kat wagon" or "don't agree" with it. Kat has been very scummy so I don't understand how someone does not get or agree with the wagon. I wanted those who claimed those things explain why Kat is town - I was betting nobody would be able to.

-I'm not crazy about your reaction to her L-1. I would have expected a little more enthusiasm, given you've tunneled her the entire game. At least an attempt to convince a bystander to force the claim.

Nope, I don't do these things.

-I don't like that you're so unconcerned with possible partners. You're pushing jason-kat in a very non-committal way. I also think your argument against citizen-kat is weak and doesn't feel consistent with your stance that citizen is suspicious. I get the impression that your not worried about the partner, because you don't think she'll flip scum.

I am not even confident about Jason being scum, so no. I just don't see anyone else making sense as her partner. I do think Citizen is scummy, but for the reason I said I doubt they are buddies. Like I said in the penguin game when Phd sheeped Mittens on me, scumbuddies rarely do that. It's certainly not impossible, neither this nor any other pairing.

[Wisdom]

I am scumreading Kat for ignoring two wagons, for continiously misrepping people, and most notably for arguing Kaze was opportunistic for pushing Delta without having even judged what Delta did herself. Not finding Delta scummy is weird, but not scummy. Though, like Kagami said, it could be an indication of WKing a person who looks like he will get lynched in order to get cred.

This, and everything she posted afterwards did nothing to make me change my mind on her. Some of her posts (like calling me VI, or her inconsistent reads) in fact made me more confident.

[Wisdom]

I see what you did there

[Wisdom]

We don't lynch for information.

[Wisdom]

Her flip will definitely provide information. The point is that we don't choose who to lynch based on what information we will gain, but based on who is most likely to be scum.

[Wisdom]

Delta is more likely scum.

What do you think of #519 and #522?

519 is nonsense.
522 is bullshit. Cooperating is not a towntell. Scum will often do it in attempts to appease their accusors.

[Wisdom]

What do you think of YKV openly lying in order to push his read, more to the point?

He's just always a VI

[Wisdom]

Adjust Kat to being a scumread and you're good

[Wisdom]

LoL you can't even suggest a partner for Kat die scum I don't trust you anymore.

First we lynch scum, then we find partners.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I know, I'm a VI because I pegged you

[Wisdom]

wat
I was using "pegging" to mean that I caught her early. Didnt know it has more meanings.

[Wisdom]

It can't always be obvious to everyone.

[Wisdom]

You refused to give details too.

What are the details you gave about who is scum?

[Wisdom]

You mean the wagon that was at L-1?

[Wisdom]

Wow, what a scumtell.

[Wisdom]

I am scumreading Kat for ignoring two wagons, for continiously misrepping people, and most notably for arguing Kaze was opportunistic for pushing Delta without having even judged what Delta did herself. Not finding Delta scummy is weird, but not scummy. Though, like Kagami said, it could be an indication of WKing a person who looks like he will get lynched in order to get cred.

This, and everything she posted afterwards did nothing to make me change my mind on her. Some of her posts (like calling me VI, or her inconsistent reads) in fact made me more confident.

[Wisdom]

Explain her town motivation to me.

[Wisdom]

I don't see why that answer can't come from scum. She was supposedly looking for partners (before a flip) and that's what she said she was doing. It's not anything that cant be faked.

[Wisdom]

I will stand by calling Kaze's play as opportunistic.

It isn't. He's the most obvtown here.

He pushed the hammer on you, this not only makes your reluctance to hammer a scumtell but let's him get away with the terrible early Delta wagon.

Reluctance to hammer is not a scumtell no matter how much you stretch your imagination, and much less in page 3.
The early Delta wagon was not terrible by any means given how scummy Delta was.

I am not going to let him get away with choking the clam out of Delta, that was just scummy as hell.

Nope, that's what I did when I asked him to claim. Kaze was just pushing his scumread.

One, he laughed at me pointing out that he was fishing for a claim.

Yeah, it's still laughable. He never did that.

Yet wording and actual events proved me right.

Nope. The most he said is that we shall rethink whether we will lynch him if he claims a PR, which is absolutely normal since we can't exactly afford lynching our PRs. He said nothing else about claiming, everything else is misreps by you.

Two, he got exactly what he wanted under the guise of pressuring Delta. An unwarranted claim and a reason to drop the wagon for no reason. He managed to out someone who claimed VT as a potential target.

Completely warranted given Delta's play.
And lol, as if scum would ever kill Delta. What potential target?

I believe that his actions are scum motivated, you cannot ignore these.

I just proved everything you said incorrect. No scum motivation at all there. All the scum motivation is in your misreps.

Whether or not you continue this lynch is entirely up to you.

Ok, I will.

[Wisdom]

I don't do such stuff. I might relook at you though if you keep unreasonably WKing my scumreads.

[Wisdom]

"I'm very stubborn. Correct me quickly if I say things that are flawed. I will insist on them forever if you don't.
Also, I'm known to hard tunnel on people. Very hard. And usually it's on town. Though I think that I'm starting to control it."
That is a quote from your own Wiki.

So what did I say that was flawed?

[Wisdom]

unreasonably WKing my scumread

s

You never told us the other one.

Prod Citizen M
Prod Jason

These two, though not quite as strong as Kat. Which I've already said.

[Wisdom]

Kat is kinda town, but I don't have much reasoning beyond the fact that they aren't Kaze, YKV or Citizen.

If you accepted that kaze is stubborn town, YKV is VI town, and citizen is useless town, would you see Kat as scum?

[Wisdom]

Also remind me what your read on Jason is.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, that doesn't answer my question. To word it differently, what happens if kaze, YKV and citizen are all town?

[Wisdom]

So what would that look tell you?

[Wisdom]

Nope.

You are reading people based on reads you have on others. This is a completely wrong thing to do. You don't even know why Kat or Jason are town yet you're stating townreads on them as if your suspects have flipped scum.

[Wisdom]

I explained to you why at least two of your scumreads are wrong. Did you do anything to check if I'm right? Did you check whether kaze is always confident like this and whether YKV is always a VI? No? Then how do you expect to change your mind? People are not going to change their playstyles because you don't like them.

pedit: I also explained why what you pointed out about Jason is null at best.

[Wisdom]

Sure, I'm doing that for Kat but that's because I'm going for the people who I feel are more likely to be scum.

The fact you are suspecting others doesn't make Kat town. That's what you dont understand. You have to judge each player individually because you don't know if any of your other reads are right.

[Wisdom]

Well I do meta and I have played with both of them enough to know your reasons for suspecting them are bad. That's why I want you to think who is scum in the event you are wrong, because, well, you are wrong.

How did YKV lie, btw?

[Wisdom]

I don't see any lies there. Just him jumping to conclusions.

[Wisdom]

Then why do you not scumread Kat? She has been the queen of misreps.

[Wisdom]

When you post "Jason is lurking on purpose", it is a misrep. You do not know what Jason's IRL schedule is, how much time he has for this game and whether he cares about this game at all. You jump to conclusions.

Knowing you, you're not doing it with scum intentions. It's just how you think. But don't be surprised if people scumread you for that.

[Wisdom]

And that was just an example, you do it all the time.

[Wisdom]

Unfortunately, town never play like the ideal image of town you have in your mind. That's why all those stuff are null and jumping to conclusion based on those is ultra bad.

[Wisdom]

Nope, the key is learning to figure out when someone is town even when they're being anti-town. We have to lynch scum, not scummy townies.

[Wisdom]

Don't hop over the point. We have to lynch scum, not anything that is not scum.

[Wisdom]

In Jason's case I don't know it, and I actually think he has decent chances of being scum.
In delta's case, the claim, and I can actually understand his thought processes now.

[Wisdom]

The point is, you don't lynch people for the things you want to lynch people for.

[Wisdom]

Scum will only claim PR when they are sure they are going to die.

And he wasn't?

[Wisdom]

. Scum for adding in legitimate accusations.

What?

[Wisdom]

And he wasn't?

No.

Initial accusation is not strong.
Too early for lynch.
Lacked support from remaining voters.

All of these are incorrect.

[Wisdom]

I don't understand 625.

[Wisdom]

You don't need to know there is a meta user in the game to try and play to your town meta. Also, it's not that easy to do it.

[Wisdom]

I liked your post though. It's the first time I asked myself if you could actually be town.

What does everyone think about Jason/citizen as the scumteam?

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

He brings up that townreads on him are based on is meta and I don't like that at all.

Why do that as scum?

[Wisdom]

That's not what he said. He said that people who have experience with him are reading him as town.

[Wisdom]

Really, the only way what he said reads is "no matter what you do, I'm obvtown and I'm not getting lynched."
Which is true, and is also how I treat scum who try to push me when I'm town. It clearly shows confident town.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: jason

[Wisdom]

Nope. You are struggling for reasons to assign scum motivation to an obvtown player, and that's worse than what YKV is doing.

[Wisdom]

Not if it stops you from looking for the actual scum.

[Wisdom]

When you're being told by several people that you are wrong, it's a sign to look for scum in the other players.

[Wisdom]

Dude. You are really bad at comprehending. It's like you want to purposefully avoid understanding what my point is every time.

Sure, Kat or anyone can get paranoid about kaze as much as she wants. That's no excuse to stop scumhunting everyone else. Especially when you're being told you're wrong. It's what delta is doing too.

[Wisdom]

The majority only controls votes to decide whom should be lynched. They have no business controlling your thoughts/scumhunting.

And thats a very wrong belief. Town needs to work together. When someone is wrong or lost, the rest have to correct them. If everyone just minds their business, scum will just sit back and let town eat each other. Which actually happens a lot.

[Wisdom]

Well, yeah, that's not gonna work here.

[Wisdom]

It shouldn't have bothered you that much if you were town. Townies shouldn't care about looking townie or driving off votes, their number one priority should be finding scum.

Again what "should be" is not what "is". Town get frustrated by the lack of reasons as much as scum.

[Wisdom]

I've never been so tempted to push my own wagon before. Maybe if I flip you'll all get your business together.

Why did you post this? This feels off considering you're supposed to be not caring at all that you're being pushed by who you consider to be scum. This would only be normal if you thought a lot of townies suspected you.

Sigh. You just destroyed my read on you.

[Wisdom]

You claimed that you thought PhDScar was being serious with his "Wisdom posts as scum; ergo, scum." line which I don't believe in the slightest.

Kagami, what do you think about this? Looks like Kaze wasn't reading.

[Wisdom]

It was a joke, as signified by the at the end that you snipped off for some reason.

I'm crushed, really.

That's not an excuse. Why make this joke? Prove you are town to whom? To the people you think are scum?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Kaze

That makes no sense.

Your push of Kat was flawed.

No it wasn't. And if you thought so, why did you never say anything about it? Or explain how Kat is town?

[Wisdom]

Actually, no, explain what exactly was the flaw in that push.

[Wisdom]

You pointed out a thing that could easily come from scum and I told you so. That doesn't explain what the flaw in my case was.

[Wisdom]

Kaze and Jason are still probably town to me.

Why is Jason town again?

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jason

[Wisdom]

I doubt scum would be locked into a read like that.

Scum are actually more sticky with their reads than town.

[Wisdom]

Suddenly I feel like voting katarina again

[Wisdom]

Because you keep talking about how Kaze is trying to fool Kagami which is bullshit. It feels like a manipulation attempt.

[Wisdom]

Scum don't focus on one single person and hope they will read them as town due to meta. Your argument is ridiculous and shows that you are just avoiding scumhunting and focusing on bullshit.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katarina

If you're going to talk about tunneling, look at yourself first. You're a hypocrite.

[Wisdom]

He got the claim he wanted

Yeah, keep spamming that. Someone might believe that in the end.

Clear as water manipulation here. Kaze never wanted any claim from Delta, it has been said a million times.

[Wisdom]

You do realize you just quoted Kagami, right?

As for 63, it was a response to me saying that he might be a PR.

So yeah, you failed.

[Wisdom]

Acknowledging what response? You're not even making sense anymore.

[Wisdom]

So stating "I want a claim" means "I acknowledge that Kaze said he wants a claim"? Seriously, do you even think before you misrep?

[Wisdom]

If nobody dared to hammer, nobody would ask him to claim. There goes your logic.

[Wisdom]

Therefore someone actually dared to hammer. You can't have it both ways.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, I'm stopping caring.

[Wisdom]

The only thing that means is they're not likely scum together.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: citizen

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: katarina

[Wisdom]

Voting him won't get him replaced

But yeah, he should, and so should Citizen.

[Wisdom]

mod

Request: Prod Jason.

[Wisdom]

Voting him won't get him replaced

Since that lurker is just prod dodging I don't want him in the game anymore. Lynch please.

There you go again

[Wisdom]

That's L-1

[Wisdom]

Maybe it's just his playstyle regardless of alignment...?

[Wisdom]

Then lynch me and find out how incorrect you are, YKV.

There you go again

[Wisdom]

Why do you AtE. It doesn't make sense.

[Wisdom]

How is Kaze opportunistic...?