Micro 381 - 999 Mafia (Nonary Game Complete)

[Not_Mafia]

Egopost, catching up later today

[Not_Mafia]

Caught up. Not seeing what not randomising the groups gains us in particular, What constitutues a "bad group"? If someone wants to be in a neighbourhood with a certain player for whatever reason then we'll honour that guess but we have a the day phases where we can talk to everyone and talking about meticulously planning the groups seems like bogging us down in discussion that could be better used elsewhere.

Don't like how completely generalised Akane is keeping her theory talk so far. Everyone else has had content at least somewhat game-specific

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Akane

[Not_Mafia]

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell, not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

[Not_Mafia]

I read it as a vote for "mafia" so
If I were a mod I wouldn't count that but apparently Pie did
Ok then
34 are you trying to scumhunt or are you putting on the guise of scumhunting; answer honestly it's important

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell, not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

yes
but aggression is a nulltell always, y'know
and are those *really* the only things you have to say after 50+ posts prior?

[Not_Mafia]

Fail

[Not_Mafia]

I read it as a vote for "mafia" so
If I were a mod I wouldn't count that but apparently Pie did
Ok then
34 are you trying to scumhunt or are you putting on the guise of scumhunting; answer honestly it's important

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell, not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

yes
but aggression is a nulltell always, y'know
and are those *really* the only things you have to say after 50+ posts prior?

"50+ posts prior which included a lot of theory babble that had largely been resolved. And as Jackel said, aggression isn't always a null tell, it's largely dependent on the player

[Not_Mafia]

Wait did we have an accidental hammer?

[Not_Mafia]

Parama claimed doublevoter, might have been a derphammer depending on how the doublevote works

[Not_Mafia]

"50+ posts prior which included a lot of theory babble that had largely been resolved.

Oh come on. It's totally possible to glean useful things from "theory babble," so don't just dismiss it. You can get reads based on how someone entirely posts about theory, or actually puts new ideas out and then some other good non-theory content, etc.

I got a couple of townreads from it, just not ones I feel the need in sharing at this point

And why the callout for Thirty Four's unvote and not Flame's? Both seemed pretty appeasing

If that's enough to vote them, I can do that, of course.

You should pretty much always be using your vote, this is the kind of thing that usually gets ironed out in the newbie queue.

@ Parama: This mostly comes down to personality and being afraid of playing badly.

You're going to play less efectively and get more scumreads the more the more self conscious you play

I agree that putting Flames at L-1 was silly. I don't like Parama being wanting to leave him there.

@ Parama: Why were you fine with putting Flames at L-1 on the second page over one post?

Do you think L-1 is inherently bad?

[Not_Mafia]

P-Edit: I was ninja'd on a lot of this after stepping away from my computer for a bit

You haven't answered my question. What's good about putting someone at L-1 on the second page over one post?
And I said why I didn't like it in my last post.

Some people hate L-1 minus early, personally I have no problem with it as long as it's clearly L-1 as I think RVS wagons and L-1 are good for pressure and that they tend to come from town and tend to come from town cos everyone knows how much attention gets put on thme for it and the inevitable discussion about derphammers that comes up every time.

After him acknowledging the misunderstanding with Bins way too late when it really should have been obvious and putting Flames at L-2 without a good reason (and without explaining his reason when I asked for it), I think Parama is pushing for easy mislynches.

And voting someone doesn't necessarily mean intent to lynch, sometimes it's just to help a read, and someone being wagoned doesn't make you or anyone else a bad player or a liability.

inexperience doesn't automatically make you town. newbie-town and newbie-scum still both make newbie mistakes. if you're town you shouldn't care how you look, you worry about the people you think are scum.

This is great in theory but fails often in practice in regards to newbies, some people are just going to get emotional and prioritise staying in the game for their few games. This is the same low-info lynch on a newb town I've seen many times.

Yeah, I think Parama is fine now. I'm trying to calm down. I'm not sure if I can. You might have to look for a replacement.

Sometimes it's better to step away from a game for a bit if you're getting stressed out. This is a game first and foremost, it's meant to be enjoyable.

[Not_Mafia]

gut read, but his posts just seem of

Man it's a good thing we're not like way past the point where having "gut reads" and posts seeming "off" are acceptable justifications for reads, right

Gut reads exist, what's the big issue with this?

[Not_Mafia]

Jumps on Jackel quickly saying "Did you only vote me because you disliked my suggestion on how to use the doors? How did that make me vote worthy?" as if there were any worthier reasons to vote anyone 22 posts in.

oh so we should just never leave rvs or try to ask ppl about their reads right? ok ty glad to know youre functionally retarded

This is definitely what he meant

[Not_Mafia]

V/LA for the next few days due to personal reasons. This is LA not V but I can't tell how active I'll be exactly

[Not_Mafia]

Quilford's case read to me like the type of case someone subbing in makes, considering this...

Sorry, had to do a bit of study over the weekend.

I think it's relatively applicable

[Not_Mafia]

I actually don't get what you're saying

Ditto

The POINT of his case was you could have had strong opinions or weak opinions. We wouldn't have known. And you've been vote hopping the most

I like the wagon I'm on but I'm starting to dislike my company on it.

[Not_Mafia]

tbh i was very null (maybe even letting town) on reck because of the aggressiveness (i mean, i can't read it, but it looked pretty confident), but quil said he's like that as scum as well. can anyone else +1 this?

my only problem with reckoner is really his entry to the game. setup talk is good, but i know when i'm scum i try to be as helpful as possible with the setup. this game (if anyone wants to bother, its like the first two pages) : http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=58457 is a good example of that. marky mark and i were both scum, and we basically talked about math and shit and tried to sound as stupidly useful as possible. we were called for it too.

That's an extremely common scum tactic.

My read is basically the exact opposite of yours, I had as an early townread as there is some setup talk necessary and he actually kept it pertinent and kept moving us forward through that stage as opposed to others who waffled, it's the recent stuff I haven't liked.

The only person with a "strong read" in the game is Quilford, ironically enough, and it's a scumread on

me that is predicated on me not having strong reads.

This is really oversimplfying his case though, he talks about how your vote hopping and scatter gunning with lack of explanation indicates you're unable to articulate your reads. It's just you not having strong reads. You're painting him as a hypocrite when there's a reason he's voting you over everyone else who doesn't. have strong reads

[Not_Mafia]

notmafia when you said you didnt like your company on the wagon did you mean both akane or also quil?

I'm voting Akane, by my company on the wagon I mean Reck

[Not_Mafia]

I agreed with this by Reck

Akane was just PoE? A very noncommittal vote? Then why is Akane now 'real scum actually'? What changed?

Dislike how Akane tried to fling shit in 34's direction after he started melting down by calling it AtE. Pointing at someone and shouting "Appealing to Emotion!" is a very easy way for scum to setup a mislynch, because way more often than not AtE is committed by a town player than a scum player... so trying to use it as Akane did feels really slimy.

which concerns me as I'm starting to like Reck less and less but his Akane read synchs up with mine.

Cuz I don't care how new you are,

you should have at least one read by page three even if it's not a solid one yet. It reads as overly cautious and avoiding making any waves and I think it's worth a vote.

Also didn't like the bold, someone being new should always factor in to your read and 34 reads as really obvious newb town to me

PEdit: Bins is slight town, I've played with her a bit and I've never seen her in this sort of limbo no scum reads mode but I feel is she were scum she'd at least be throwing out something so it seems to be an issue with a lack of synergy with the playlist

[Not_Mafia]

As for the points on me... I think this comes down to differences of opinion more than anything but it kind of makes me think N_M is town. In my opinion AtE is a personality tell more than an alignment tell and also my biggest pet peeve... and newness really,

really

shouldn't be a factor because that's how you get newbies playing the "oh I'm so new I don't know how to do anything" card and sweeping as scum.

I think that's just a boogeyman that I always hear about but never actually see, I just find newb town tentativeness (and then the flailing that followed) so easy to distinguish.

I've never played the source game

someone explain the game specific number rules for me in a short and succinct way

We don't really know exactly how night actions (specifically NKs) work with the doors yet, but I'm guessing it's the digital root thing you're not quite getting. We all have numbers 1-9 assigned to us (you can find them in the OP), to find the digital root you add everyone number together and then keeping adding the digits of that number until you get to single digits. For example if you (6) , me (4) and Bins (1) went in to a room, it would be door 2 as 6+4+1=11, 1+1=2. Something to keep in mind is the number 9 will never change the digital root of a group.

No, read the fucking rules or don't replace in.

How about read the fucking game and stop trolling or replace out. You're only impressing yourself.

I agree we should be doing that 3-3-2 thing in regards to rooms, will place my rooms vote in a moment

[Not_Mafia]

Also, I feel like Bins only really makes sense as scum with Reck, if she were scum she wouldn't have hedged so much on the Reck wagon unless they were partners and well...

vote [Not_Mafia, Quilford, Jackel - 9], [Grib, Reck, yoncé - 1]

[Not_Mafia]

Mines not set in stone or based on being inclined to talk to anyone in particular, I put me and Reck in separate rooms and then added the other people in one by one based on a combination of my townreads and who I think are least likely to be lynched.

We should be aiming to protect the towniest towns obviously but we also don't want to advertise to scum who they should be killing as we don't know yet if their kills a restricted to a room or if they have x-shot strongman kinda things where they can kill across rooms or a myriad of other possibilities where scum could wifom the shit out of NKs and all we end up actually doing is telling scum who to kill. Flavour wise kills within rooms only makes the most sense (I'm guessing, I've only played Virtue's Last Reward) but I feel like the game could be breakable like that as well, so I'm not sold.

[Not_Mafia]

The above post is about the rooms votes if that was unclear, so much ninjaing in this game

[Not_Mafia]

I'm curious though; you have me in your top 3 scumreads then? Even though a quick scan of your ISO shows exactly one comment that could even possibly be interpreted as an indication of suspicion and only says "odd" at worst.

I'm PoEing this game hard, you're at an intersection of not being in my top townreads and being a potential lynch candidate but I could see putting you in over 1 or 2 people I have in a room at the moment.

[Not_Mafia]

I don't really want to go in to detail for reasons mentioned earlier, once we have a better grip on NK mechanics and if they're something we definitely can manipulate then I'll have no problem going in to them

[Not_Mafia]

If Reck isn't confirmed town tomorrow we can lynch him then, trying to drive a wagon on him today is silly but I'm not going to bend over backwards trying to create some sort of foolproof plan for him with his attitude to/in the game so far.

[Not_Mafia]

I think the more pertininent issue is why you decided to post those lists in the first place. "Because I felt like it" is not an answer

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Grib

I like town!Reckoner for lack of self-awareness in 18. This post reads genuine as a townie who is sure the game will be over long before the 9 Day limit with so few players. It's safe to assume scum know exactly how their NK will function w/r/t the door mechanic. Admittedly, that's all I have for him, because the quality of his posts just go down from there.

Why are you retroactively posting a town case on someone who claimed a confirmable role?

To be honest, for a lot of my reads I assume that if a person is scum, they wouldn't do their partner the disservice of, say, throwing a huge fit and drawing so much attention to yourself. Or hardcore lurking out the game, which is a (or rather, the) reason I'm townreading Flames. Lurking is a little difficult to work with, unless it's a huge scumtell for the person.

Scum won't be anti-town? Scum can't flake? I'm honestly not following this argument at all. Seems like you're trying to force a townread on Reck for town points, I don't see what the point of this whole thing is otherwise.

And your Akane case has a couple of good points, but is largely just dragging out everything someone could find slightly objectionable but ultimately non-alignment indicative stuff like her RVS vote switch and her doors thing

[Not_Mafia]

What I mean is, his readflip comes conveniently follows Reck's claim and not even due to "well he isn't confirmed yet but I don't think scum would claim a confirmable role as if they're lying it will only buy them one more day" or something similar. It's just, oh look I have a towncase on Reck now he's claimed a confirmable role.

PEdit: Indeed

[Not_Mafia]

Let's not let this reads list trend thing spread past Grib and Bins. I'm fine with Bins as I think it may help her standing in the game if people can see her thought process and that lack of scumreads =/= no reads at all. I still think she's disengaged town, if she were scum she'd know better than to go lol no scum reads and pussyfoot so much around the Reck wagon, I've seen her as both alignments and she's not an idiot. I only see her as scum with Reck and I don't think Reck would fakeclaim a role that could only buy him one more day if his partner was a likely lynch candidate.

[Not_Mafia]

I think that's what he means.

???
the problem is that the claim cannot affect a read at this point in time. and in the scenario where 1. it's fake but we can't prove it is or 2. it's real but the person he confirms to is killed then the claim stops mattering entirely, so it's entirely okay to try to get a read on Reck despite the claim since it could come in handy later to have a solid read on him

I'm not saying people shouldn't look outside the claim for a read, I'm saying I think he's just trying to do some weird form of white knighting for tomorrow if and when Reck is confirmed.

[Not_Mafia]

The only reason I say weird is it's not the traditional definition of whiteknighting but it's the best word I can think of presently, maybe towncredding would be more apt

[Not_Mafia]

vote [Not_Mafia, Quilford, Jackel - 9], [Parama, Reck, yoncé - 7]

[Not_Mafia]

It's also because his reads list and Rack case achieved nothing and I don't know why he did them them other than "he felt like it" and

For reactions. For questions. For content.

Which is just the boilerplate generic answer that really means nothing, that's what everything you post should be doing and we just got finished discussing why we shouldn't be making our top town reads so explicit

[Not_Mafia]

Forgot Grib replaced 34, now I have to like, think and stuff.

[Not_Mafia]

Are the people pushing a Reck lynch doing that 'pushing a policy lynch as a scum lynch to push it through' thing? Otherwise lynching a claimed Friendly Neighbour d1 is so stupid, if he isn't either confirmed or dead tomorrow he can be lynched then.

Will respond properly to stuff a bit later, things moving way too fast right now.

[Not_Mafia]

Will be getting to this tomorrow sorry

[Not_Mafia]

378:

Can you elaborate on why you only think Bins can be scum with Reck?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I said if Bins is scum, I can only really see Reck as her partner and his claim makes me doubt even that. If Reck is scum, there's maybe 2-3 people I'd be inclined to rule out, would have to look at when the claim came.

I think y'all are cutting Reck way too much slack based on the claim and are gonna be kicking yourselves when we have to kill him tomorrow anyway. But I guess we'll see.

I look at it this way, if Reck is scum he'll be here tomorrow and will have to out his partner to evade a lynch. If he's town we've lynched a claimed friendly neighbour.

It's not so confirmable that I feel comfortable slotting him as a townfirm. The role leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Besides, fake townfirms are a thing (not likely though).

There's not really wiggle room, either he get's lynched tomorrow, or he has to use his scumpartner to 'confirm' himself.

It's not so confirmable that I feel comfortable slotting him as a townfirm. The role leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Besides, fake townfirms are a thing (not likely though).

Scum won't be anti-town? Scum can't flake? I'm honestly not following this argument at all. Seems like you're trying to force a townread on Reck for town points, I don't see what the point of this whole thing is otherwise.

And your Akane case has a couple of good points, but is largely just dragging out everything someone could find slightly objectionable but ultimately non-alignment indicative stuff like her RVS vote switch and her doors thing

I think it's a fair assumption to make for Day 1, at the absolute least. Town!Reck is my read here, not yours. I stated it, I'm not pushing or forcing it. Why would I want to push a weak read? The point is I was asked about it so I gave my reason. That's it, w/r/t Reck.

Well, what do you know. My reasons aren't infallible. Who would have thought. Point out the good/bad points for me.

It was Quilford case that drew attention to him though, and then the rage and insults came, which is apparently characteristic of him. And I don't see what the relevance of you pushing it is, it was the timing of it I hated. But apparently Akane asked you for it.

I'm not criticising it for the sake of it, it looked to me like throwing out anything and everything and seeing what stuck

Spoiler: Akane

4: Her first vote is for Bins. Innocent enough. Her advocating on saving the doors is only bad if it’s proven the scums’ kills are restricted to rooms/groups.

12: Switches her RVS for...some reason. 34 questioned her on this as well.

20: Claims she switched her vote because she liked Bins’ reaction to her RVS. Which. I dunno, feels really fake. Akane didn’t ask anything particularly difficult, there isn’t really much to be nervous about in this context.

Of course this could just be waved away with “oh it was just a random vote who cares?” but hhh.

I don't understand the problem here, she RVS'd someone, thought they looked townish, moved it elsewhere

81: This is the first post that tipped me on a reread, after I’d been posting for a couple pages. She criticizes 34 for unvoting someone who was at L-1 (what?). And then she goes on about how he should have voted for someone else, or laid out some reads -- in fact, nearly half of the second paragraph could apply presently to Bins. I’m still waiting for Akane to catch up and explain her gut townread on her.

105: Dismisses 34’s above posts because AtE. I only find it scummy because she dismissed all three posts that way. She could have at least addressed the parts of the posts that weren’t AtE.

108: Says 34 is gunking up the thread with his emotions. Bins has been gunking the thread with pure void, but it’s totes okay when she does it.

AtE =/= lack of contribution are completely separate things, so I'm not seeing the hypocrisy angle you seem you be implying

142: Not gonna lie, this is my favorite part. Akane asks Bins why she still has her vote parked on NM, and asks for her reads. Bins replies with “no reason” (and doesn’t unvote, even though she just stated her vote is dead and useless) and that she’ll “address her reads tomorrow” (she in fact does the opposite of that, by unvoting AND saying she has nothing right after Quil posted a case against Reckoner).

Akane of course addresses this steaming pile of bullshit in her next pos--oh. Wait. She doesn’t readdress this. Ever. In fact, I think this is actually the last time Akane has ever spoken directly to Bins.

Of course everyone is guilty of letting Bins cruise, except Parama, I guess. It’s just more damning for Akane because she’s the one who asked and didn’t follow up.

204: Asks NM for a read on Bins. Because? Who knows. I'm guessing she's trying to justify her gut townread here, by seeing if anyone else is townreading her.

She asked because I've played with her before and wanted my perspective, she states this later

304: Basically calling Reckoner conf!scum. “1% chance that it’s true”? Please.

She didn't believe the claim and kept with the read, guilty of hyperbole maybe but again not see the big issue

((Also, just kidding -- Akane does talk to Bins in 310, but it’s a mechanics question so it doesn’t really count.))

Akane then engages Reckoner in some bullshit meta/identity argument, clogging up the thread and being a distracting mess.

Why is her being a distracting mess scummy and make Reck townish?

And now we’re mostly back to the present. That was fun.

What I mean is, his readflip comes conveniently follows Reck's claim and not even due to "well he isn't confirmed yet but I don't think scum would claim a confirmable role as if they're lying it will only buy them one more day" or something similar. It's just, oh look I have a towncase on Reck now he's claimed a confirmable role.

PEdit: Indeed

It's almost like I went back through the thread and read the game from a town!Reck perspective. Wow.

And it's not a case, it's a weak read.

Well I'd call any standalone justification of a read a case, but that's semantics, and I'd forgotten/hadn't realised Akane had asked you for the read

It's also because his reads list and Rack case achieved nothing and I don't know why he did them them other than "he felt like it" and

For reactions. For questions. For content.

Which is just the boilerplate generic answer that really means nothing, that's what everything you post should be doing and we just got finished discussing why we shouldn't be making our top town reads so explicit

There seems to be a divide in the members here on whether or not sharing townreads is a good thing. That's your own opinion.

I shared my reads because I felt like it and we're all posting and using our brains and junk. Sulk about it if you really want to.

I could quickhammer Yoncé right now because I feel like it, it doesn't stop it anti-town, you say we have a different opinion but I don't know why you think it's a good thing and it came just after we finished discussing why we weren't making our townreads so explicit

Well, I do it every game. I'd make an exception for the rest of the game, but I wouldn't want to summon the wrath of NM the Knowledgeable.

I prefer NM the Righteous

Whoops. Yeah, the rest of his iso is reading very much like townie that can't handle pressure to me now.

This is a pretty stark turnaround. Why do you think you didn't see what you're seeing now at the time?

Sorry for not posting more, but half of the time I don't know what to post. Most of your posts are directed are directed at specific people, and anything I want to point out is ninja'd. That combined with Real Life makes it hard to post as much as I want to.

It's better you post something and not just oh lol beaten to it, sheeping is a crappy tell anyway

I really don't fucking buy that there's a VT in this setup... I mean, maybe, but this seems like the place where Pie would put a bunch of cool power roles that interact with the room mechanic. Hmm.

That early claim is really bad, and also pretty noobtown though, I don't think newbscum fakeclaims VT that early with no danger of a lynch.

Well the only way you can believe both of these things is if you think he's lying town, so if it's not that which one is it?

And a role madness Micro sounds excessively hard to balance, especcially with the door mechanics. I'm inclined to believe the claim.

Pedit: Okay just saw Yonce's self hammer, has to be scum, self hammering as town when we haven't agreed on doors or self hammering as town at all? No

[Not_Mafia]

378:

Can you elaborate on why you only think Bins can be scum with Reck?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I said if Bins is scum, I can only really see Reck as her partner and his claim makes me doubt even that. If Reck is scum, there's maybe 2-3 people I'd be inclined to rule out, would have to look at when the claim came.

I think y'all are cutting Reck way too much slack based on the claim and are gonna be kicking yourselves when we have to kill him tomorrow anyway. But I guess we'll see.

I look at it this way, if Reck is scum he'll be here tomorrow and will have to out his partner to evade a lynch. If he's town we've lynched a claimed friendly neighbour.

It's not so confirmable that I feel comfortable slotting him as a townfirm. The role leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Besides, fake townfirms are a thing (not likely though).

There's not really wiggle room, either he get's lynched tomorrow, or he has to use his scumpartner to 'confirm' himself.

It's not so confirmable that I feel comfortable slotting him as a townfirm. The role leaves a lot of wiggle room for scum. Besides, fake townfirms are a thing (not likely though).

Scum won't be anti-town? Scum can't flake? I'm honestly not following this argument at all. Seems like you're trying to force a townread on Reck for town points, I don't see what the point of this whole thing is otherwise.

And your Akane case has a couple of good points, but is largely just dragging out everything someone could find slightly objectionable but ultimately non-alignment indicative stuff like her RVS vote switch and her doors thing

I think it's a fair assumption to make for Day 1, at the absolute least. Town!Reck is my read here, not yours. I stated it, I'm not pushing or forcing it. Why would I want to push a weak read? The point is I was asked about it so I gave my reason. That's it, w/r/t Reck.

Well, what do you know. My reasons aren't infallible. Who would have thought. Point out the good/bad points for me.

It was Quilford case that drew attention to him though, and then the rage and insults came, which is apparently characteristic of him. And I don't see what the relevance of you pushing it is, it was the timing of it I hated. But apparently Akane asked you for it.

I'm not criticising it for the sake of it, it looked to me like throwing out anything and everything and seeing what stuck

Spoiler: Akane

4: Her first vote is for Bins. Innocent enough. Her advocating on saving the doors is only bad if it’s proven the scums’ kills are restricted to rooms/groups.

12: Switches her RVS for...some reason. 34 questioned her on this as well.

20: Claims she switched her vote because she liked Bins’ reaction to her RVS. Which. I dunno, feels really fake. Akane didn’t ask anything particularly difficult, there isn’t really much to be nervous about in this context.

Of course this could just be waved away with “oh it was just a random vote who cares?” but hhh.

I don't understand the problem here, she RVS'd someone, thought they looked townish, moved it elsewhere

81: This is the first post that tipped me on a reread, after I’d been posting for a couple pages. She criticizes 34 for unvoting someone who was at L-1 (what?). And then she goes on about how he should have voted for someone else, or laid out some reads -- in fact, nearly half of the second paragraph could apply presently to Bins. I’m still waiting for Akane to catch up and explain her gut townread on her.

105: Dismisses 34’s above posts because AtE. I only find it scummy because she dismissed all three posts that way. She could have at least addressed the parts of the posts that weren’t AtE.

108: Says 34 is gunking up the thread with his emotions. Bins has been gunking the thread with pure void, but it’s totes okay when she does it.

AtE =/= lack of contribution are completely separate things, so I'm not seeing the hypocrisy angle you seem you be implying

142: Not gonna lie, this is my favorite part. Akane asks Bins why she still has her vote parked on NM, and asks for her reads. Bins replies with “no reason” (and doesn’t unvote, even though she just stated her vote is dead and useless) and that she’ll “address her reads tomorrow” (she in fact does the opposite of that, by unvoting AND saying she has nothing right after Quil posted a case against Reckoner).

Akane of course addresses this steaming pile of bullshit in her next pos--oh. Wait. She doesn’t readdress this. Ever. In fact, I think this is actually the last time Akane has ever spoken directly to Bins.

Of course everyone is guilty of letting Bins cruise, except Parama, I guess. It’s just more damning for Akane because she’s the one who asked and didn’t follow up.

204: Asks NM for a read on Bins. Because? Who knows. I'm guessing she's trying to justify her gut townread here, by seeing if anyone else is townreading her.

She asked because I've played with her before and wanted my perspective, she states this later

304: Basically calling Reckoner conf!scum. “1% chance that it’s true”? Please.

She didn't believe the claim and kept with the read, guilty of hyperbole maybe but again not see the big issue

((Also, just kidding -- Akane does talk to Bins in 310, but it’s a mechanics question so it doesn’t really count.))

Akane then engages Reckoner in some bullshit meta/identity argument, clogging up the thread and being a distracting mess.

Why is her being a distracting mess scummy and make Reck townish?

And now we’re mostly back to the present. That was fun.

What I mean is, his readflip comes conveniently follows Reck's claim and not even due to "well he isn't confirmed yet but I don't think scum would claim a confirmable role as if they're lying it will only buy them one more day" or something similar. It's just, oh look I have a towncase on Reck now he's claimed a confirmable role.

PEdit: Indeed

It's almost like I went back through the thread and read the game from a town!Reck perspective. Wow.

And it's not a case, it's a weak read.

Well I'd call any standalone justification of a read a case, but that's semantics, and I'd forgotten/hadn't realised Akane had asked you for the read

It's also because his reads list and Rack case achieved nothing and I don't know why he did them them other than "he felt like it" and

For reactions. For questions. For content.

Which is just the boilerplate generic answer that really means nothing, that's what everything you post should be doing and we just got finished discussing why we shouldn't be making our top town reads so explicit

There seems to be a divide in the members here on whether or not sharing townreads is a good thing. That's your own opinion.

I shared my reads because I felt like it and we're all posting and using our brains and junk. Sulk about it if you really want to.

I could quickhammer Yoncé right now because I feel like it, it doesn't stop it anti-town, you say we have a different opinion but I don't know why you think it's a good thing and it came just after we finished discussing why we weren't making our townreads so explicit

Well, I do it every game. I'd make an exception for the rest of the game, but I wouldn't want to summon the wrath of NM the Knowledgeable.

I prefer NM the Righteous

Whoops. Yeah, the rest of his iso is reading very much like townie that can't handle pressure to me now.

This is a pretty stark turnaround. Why do you think you didn't see what you're seeing now at the time?

Sorry for not posting more, but half of the time I don't know what to post. Most of your posts are directed are directed at specific people, and anything I want to point out is ninja'd. That combined with Real Life makes it hard to post as much as I want to.

It's better you post something and not just oh lol beaten to it, sheeping is a crappy tell anyway

I really don't fucking buy that there's a VT in this setup... I mean, maybe, but this seems like the place where Pie would put a bunch of cool power roles that interact with the room mechanic. Hmm.

That early claim is really bad, and also pretty noobtown though, I don't think newbscum fakeclaims VT that early with no danger of a lynch.

Well the only way you can believe both of these things is if you think he's lying town, so if it's not that which one is it?

And a role madness Micro sounds excessively hard to balance, especcially with the door mechanics. I'm inclined to believe the claim.

Pedit: Okay just saw Yonce's self hammer, has to be scum, self hammering as town when we haven't agreed on doors or self hammering as town at all? No

[Not_Mafia]

Will continue catching up, hopefully inb4 lock, that will be the bulk of it I imagine

[Not_Mafia]

Are the people pushing a Reck lynch doing that 'pushing a policy lynch as a scum lynch to push it through' thing?

This wasn't rhetorical btw

I haven't played 999 (only Virtue's last reward) is the 8 doors thing because of flavour? I imagine not cos y'know 9 doors. If it's breaking flavour there might be something significant there.

Also, this will probably be shot down, but has anyone thought about an Akane/Reck scumteam? Is it possible that scum has daychat?

That would break flavour so I imagine no, Akane/Rack team is kinda crackpot theory regardless though

Twilight votes aren't counted iirc but

7-vote: xRECKONERx, Quilford, Not_Mafia
8-vote: Parama, Akane Kurashiki, Bins

Not ideal but at least Reck will either have to confirm himself to me or Quilford, who I most doubt is his partner at the least.

Ugh. I'm paranoid about fucking everybody, especially after

Quil's recent posts

. But whatever.

Why?

Yoncé's vote might not be counted? If it isn't consider this

intent to hammer

also, Grib being 34 and that fact that Akane asked him for a Reck read has kinda sunk that ship for me, still a couple of things to address though

[Not_Mafia]

RE: Reck's claim, if it were really that simple I wouldn't have nearly as much of a problem with it, but you're forgetting the possible outcome where the person he "confirms" to is NKed, leaving him still unconfirmed and we're just simply worse off than we were before. Or "lol I was roleblocked." Or any number of things really. But it's whatever at this point, the wagon I want most isn't going to happen today and I've made my peace with that.

If he's here tomorrow and there's any bs about his claim and he isn't confirmed to anyone I'll absolutely be lynching him, but I'd rather give him the chance to confirm himself.

[Not_Mafia]

@mod requesting VC

Once I see the doors are definitely locked in I'll drop the hammer

[Not_Mafia]

@mod requesting VC

[Not_Mafia]

Use your words

[Not_Mafia]

@NM:
1. In 369 you said the case on Akane had good points but didn't elaborate, which points did you agree with at the time, and do you still agree with them at this point in time?
2. In 574, you said there were 2-3 people you'd call town if Reck was scum. Name them. Next post. No exceptions.

These points, if I didn't criticise them when I was responding to Grib, that was me implicitly agreeing or at least finding them valid

Spoiler:

105: Dismisses 34’s above posts because AtE. I only find it scummy because she dismissed all three posts that way. She could have at least addressed the parts of the posts that weren’t AtE.

142: Not gonna lie, this is my favorite part. Akane asks Bins why she still has her vote parked on NM, and asks for her reads. Bins replies with “no reason” (and doesn’t unvote, even though she just stated her vote is dead and useless) and that she’ll “address her reads tomorrow” (she in fact does the opposite of that, by unvoting AND saying she has nothing right after Quil posted a case against Reckoner).

Akane of course addresses this steaming pile of bullshit in her next pos--oh. Wait. She doesn’t readdress this. Ever. In fact, I think this is actually the last time Akane has ever spoken directly to Bins.

Of course everyone is guilty of letting Bins cruise, except Parama, I guess. It’s just more damning for Akane because she’s the one who asked and didn’t follow up.

And Quilford, Akane and Jackel are I don't see as scum with Reck, Quil and Akane are obvious I imagine, Jackel is because her hop on the wagon doesn't look like newb-scum wanting to be on their partners wagon to me, this is the weaker of the 3.

Also. I will restate this here for emphasis:
The arguments against Flames/yonce were all ENTIRELY VALID. The slot just sucked that hard. Literally the only thing we gained from that lynch is Vote Count Analysis that won't be relevant yet and one less worthless slot.

Why did you feel the need to say this, no one criticised the lynch

I really don't want to play the WIFOM game with Reck's claim and his claim to be Roleblocked and being notified his shot is intact reeks of bullshit to me, but I don't find myself wanting to vote him like I thought I would if this situation arose. But as long as Reck isn't confirmed I feel one of Reck and Quilford (and only one) is scum, so I'm currently working with Reck + [Bins, Parama] or Quil + [Akane, Jackel, Parama]

[Not_Mafia]

And yeah we did fuck all in our QT, which was all our faults, it was yesterday morning before I remembered the QT even existed. I'm not sure what we would have even talked about though to be honest, and if I would have trusted the room enough to really be able make use of it. So tonight if I don't sit it out I want to be with either my townreads and/or people who I need to see more from. I also think it's important Grib and/or Jackel are in a room if they aren't lynched.

Something like [NM, Bins, Jackel]

One thing I'm concerned about is scum having a factional roleblock, I don't mind Reck picking a group and then letting us sort out the other one amongst ourselves, at least for now.

So something I noticed when checking our QT back, the one thing Quilford said was he doesn't know how to read anyone anymore, implying Reck is/was confirmed town already. I'm not sure if I'm ready to call it a slip per se but looking at it now I don't like how it was phrased

VOTE: Quilford

[Not_Mafia]

Is there an actual reason you shouldn't be in a room or are you just being polite? If it's the latter then I'll be voting for you to be in a room, if it's the former I'll take your word for it.

[Not_Mafia]

You said today that "it was yesterday morning before I remembered the QT even existed". Does that mean you read the PM with the QT link in it and then forgot about it entirely until the time when you remembered and made your first and only post in it?

Pretty much, opened the PM just before going to sleep, clicked it to get the QT in the list of topics, forgot about the site.

I really think a massclaim would be a good idea.

Why?

[Not_Mafia]

uhhhhh?

@Mod: If an action requires being in the same room as someone, does not going through a door (and therefore being in the "main room") with someone count for that? Or do they have to go through a door to use it?

The "main room" does not count as a Door.

I imagine this applies to scum NK's and NA's aswell.

[Not_Mafia]

@Bins
Perfect. That means I'm not scum and there is literally no reason to vote for me.

You'll have to explain this leap of logic to me

[Not_Mafia]

@Bins
Perfect. That means I'm not scum and there is literally no reason to vote for me.

You'll have to explain this leap of logic to me

If staying outside prevents you from NA'ing players in doors, I am very likely not scum because I am requesting to be left outside. Outside alone, to be specific. ToNight, and if I have my way, every Night after that for as long as the doors are in play.

If I were scum, I'd just be hurting my team by continuously not killing anyone.

Unless you're solo scum this makes no sense.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm more confused than anything

I'm lost.

I feel like I'm missing something.

[Not_Mafia]

Right. The reason I thought Reck/Akane was because their tunnelling on each other was absurdly strong and out of character or for suspicious reasons. I didn't state it explicitly because I thought it would be clear, but the conclusion was that it looked like distancing.

Do you still believe it is/could be Reck + Akane?

[Not_Mafia]

That reminds me of something I thought about earlier, how does scum night chat and selecting an NK reconcile with flavour? Maybe they can only kill when together.

[Not_Mafia]

What is it you don't like about me and the yonce wagon?

[Not_Mafia]

@Jackel, what purpose does not voting serve?

[Not_Mafia]

Pedit: Okay just saw Yonce's self hammer, has to be scum, self hammering as town when we haven't agreed on doors or self hammering as town at all? No

N_M, I just didn't understand how you came to this conclusion? I see the doors argument, but I didn't really like the immediate read.

I reacted capriciously I guess? My first instinct when I see an early and unnecessary self hammer is scum.

About the doors, seems pretty simple to me this turn, Grib is sitting out, Reck gets to choose 2 of [Akane, Bins, Parama], the last one goes in to a room with whoever of myself, Jackel and Quilford is not lynched. I can go through all the possibilities later and see if they're all possible

[Not_Mafia]

It's just an odd reaction to the self-hammer because you've been so... careful with your read on me? Or at least with reasoning that was very on point. The sudden "Must be scum." came as odd to me.

Define careful in this context

[Not_Mafia]

Bins, I fail to understand, when Akane asked me what? And when did my read on you come in to this?

[Not_Mafia]

Would prefer this

1-vote: Bins, Quilford, Not_Mafia
5-vote Akane Kurashiki, Parama, xRECKONERx

It's up to Reck in the end though

@Mod Could you put a list of the door numbers and which ones we have used in the OP please

[Not_Mafia]

About the doors, seems pretty simple to me this turn, Grib is sitting out, Reck gets to choose 2 of [Akane, Bins, Parama], the last one goes in to a room with whoever of myself, Jackel and Quilford is not lynched.

[Not_Mafia]

Ninja'd

Grib needs to be outside a room for his role. Are you reading the thread?

[Not_Mafia]

Tempted. So very tempted.

[Not_Mafia]

Parama let's mind meld

Pedit: lol

[Not_Mafia]

I would really like to talk with Bins in private, or as close to private as the set-up allows

[Not_Mafia]

About the doors, seems pretty simple to me this turn, Grib is sitting out, Reck gets to choose 2 of [Akane, Bins, Parama], the last one goes in to a room with whoever of myself, Jackel and Quilford is not lynched.

This is not hard

[Not_Mafia]

Bins, I fail to understand, when Akane asked me what? And when did my read on you come in to this?

Oh, that's my bad. I was thinking that I had explained something I didn't. When Akane asked you what your read was Day 1, you seemed very y'know wellthoughout on your answer. Carefully planned and stable read. It just seemed like you reaction to yonce was quite sudden in comparision from my point of view.

You mean my read on you yes? I'm confused as to whether you findthe yoncé read independently scummy, in contrast with my read on you, or both?

[Not_Mafia]

Both? Like independantly scummy and then increase that by a bit because of the contrast.

The first part I understand, the second; they're different reads based on different things, one a player-based read, one a reactionary read to an attempted self hammer. What is it exactly you dislike about the difference?

If someone is going to replace in, we should probably give them a pass for the Day? Otherwise what's the point?

Never do this. If Jackel replaces out the replacement will get a fair shake obviously but no one gets a free pass

yeah idgaf honestly. I have no reason to give a fuck. Jackel has had basically 1 out of every 25 posts. In a 9 player game. It's ridiculous. Quilford isn't much better.

Yes, if only they would refuse to read the game and shitpost.

[Not_Mafia]

You said today that "it was yesterday morning before I remembered the QT even existed". Does that mean you read the PM with the QT link in it and then forgot about it entirely until the time when you remembered and made your first and only post in it?

Pretty much, opened the PM just before going to sleep, clicked it to get the QT in the list of topics, forgot about the site.

Then why in the QT did you say "keep forgetting this exists", as if you had forgotten more than once?

Because other games since PTs were introduced

[Not_Mafia]

Your point being?

[Not_Mafia]

Jackel was still inactive and far too cautious voting and pursuing anything. None of that has changed. The wagon is just as valid as it was before the replace out

[Not_Mafia]

I wake up to 5-6 pages of content out of nowhere and L-1. Good morning to you all too, catching up now.

[Not_Mafia]

Spoiler:

haha reck defending gamma's slot so hard. literally four out of the last five posts.

Your point being? Seems to be out of them being mates more than anything else

No, wrong. Defending Jackel's wagon, which is primarily where it is because "Jackel hasn't posted a lot", doesn't make me have to have a townread on him. It means I'm using my brain and thinking, "Huh, well if everyone's primary concern with Jackel was his activity, and we just got a replacement, then the wagon shouldn't really hold up."

Jackel's inactivity doesn't disappear because he replaced out, I don't get why you keep pushing this angle

I don't have a town read on anybody in this game. Literally nobody. I have reads that vary between "null", "scum" and "veryscum".

I'm having close to the opposite problem

I assumed you had the mental capacity to say, "Hey, wait, Reck isn't voting Jackel and has been voting Not_Mafia for awhile, that's probably who he wants lynched!" I apologize, I will not overestimate your brain function in the future.

NM has done basically nothing since I voted him except take potshots at me and avoid me. I'm not going to sit there and

keep

screaming for his lynch.

Except you've done nothing to actually push my lynch other than "I was roleblocked and Quil made that one post that looked town"

- After voting for Akane because her "theory talk is too general" (I don't really know what that means and I don't think he does either),

It means exactly what it says...?

18 19 - Game specific. Nothing in Akane's iso at that point was any real game specific content

he immediately throws mud on Parama but leaves himself an out. "Parama is so aggressive! That's odd. But maybe it's just playstyle..."

- He claims the first 2.5 pages were just theory babble that had been resolved. By the end of page one, people were engaged in non-theory discussion. He absolves himself of having to actually have an opinion on things by just categorizing it all as theory talk and ignoring it.

Except in my first post I talked about not caring about how the rooms were distributed. And placed an entirely serious vote on Akane

- While he's engaged with me and actively scumreading me, he leaves his vote on Akane (who I am arguing with, and who is tunneling on me).

At that point I still disliked Akane's push on 34 more and the wagon on you didn't need my help.

and his D2 speculation on the scum room kill mechanic.

Why did you like this?

How much of the Quilford/Reck mess is actually important. Serious question.

-snip-

lol, but what are you saying?

2) Chronic inactivity isn't a scumtell. Seriously? Seriously. This is a point you're trying to make...that all chronic lurkers are scum.

That's... not how a scumtell works?

so you just lost one of your points against him. either it's a scummy thing to do so you're admitting you did a scummy thing, or it's not a scummy thing to do

Well not really, town do scummy things, and hipocrisy is not a scumtell

if something is a scumtell it is indicative of scum and thus anyone performing that act should be considered scum
so it's not really a big misrep, maybe a minor one making assumptions

Again town do scummy things. Since when is a tell supposed to have 100% accuracy?

The guy has won Paragon of Mafia Hunters, for christ's sake. He does not play like a moron as town.

This is just burden of proficiency. And who even cares about site awards?

anyway I don't like gamma's catchup / reads posts, i've never seen him catchup post as town and i have seen him give reads lists as scum.

So? has he explicitly said catch-up are something he does as scum to benefit him. Otherwise this is just meaningless and a complete misapplication of meta

not to mention the reasons i've already given why catchup posts are bad.

You're the first person on site I've heard express this opinion, so it's not something I'm going to put much stock in

I only bring this up because Bins has the exact opposite feel as you re: NM; Bins dislikes this specific post a lot but doesn't find NM too scummy otherwise (or so I think IIRC?)
why you do think the reaction is town?

Because it would be so super easy to get a mislynch through by jumping on the EARLY VT CLAIM SO SCUM wagon. Nobody ever gets held accountable for that, and if he was scum, I would have expected him to just take the free lynch. I mean he could've done it for the barrels of WIFOM, but I'm not going down that route.

I had intent to hammer open after I found out yoncé's self hammer wouldn't be accepted, if a VC had been posted before Akane hammered it could just well have been me as the hammerer. And it's not exactly barrels of WIFOM is it? It would be a level 2 scumplay if anything.

NM's post was basically soft-scumreading you

because of your playstyle,

but in the very sentence admits it

could just be a playstyle thing.

It sits weird with me.

I learnt quickly with how this site glorifies lolcapsrage, insult heavy playstyles and the like that a fair bit of what would typically be scummy at my homesite is ultimately just playstyle here, like Parama's seemingly random aggression

but his posts themselves struck me as pretty weak in all the ways catchup posts typically do

If it's just typical of catchup posts why do you find this one in particular bad

In no way does that translate to OH MAN I FUCKING WANT A NM LYNCH I AM BURNING WITH DEEP GUTTERAL PASSION FOR HIS LYNCH.

There's a very big difference this and doing nothing to push the lynch

'cause that would toootally have worked

That's not the point. What was the purpose of you stepping in the middle of someone trying to bait a scumslip

Mod: replace me please

¬.¬ Sorry brah

Grib

scum

Why is Grib at the bottom of your list other than omgus? That's all I've really seen from you on him

[Not_Mafia]

so you just lost one of your points against him. either it's a scummy thing to do so you're admitting you did a scummy thing, or it's not a scummy thing to do

Well not really, town do scummy things, and hipocrisy is not a scumtell[/quote]

you can't call something a scumtell if you're the one committing it, because if you're calling it a scumtell, then you're saying the reason someone else is scum is a valid reason for why you're scum, which is to say you are discrediting your own point.
it's hypocrisy yeah but even worse than that implies[/quote]

There are valid reasons to call everyone scum, it was scummy when I did it and it was scummy when he did it, him bringing it up and doing doesn't invalidate either of those things

so are you saying town should intentionally do scummy things, because scumtells aren't 100% accurate? the point of a scumtell is that it finds scum. town can do scummy things, but the entire point is to look for things that a scum would do, and it's not my fault if other townies play like scum

That's not what I said at all. I'm saying a scumtell not being 100% accurate doesn't invalidate it. And yes I agree if a townie starts dropping tells left, right and centre it's their own fault, but the tells were still applicable.

I don't know why you're asking Quil questions, he can't answer them and Bulge isn't a mind reader so he can't answer how Quil would

I read this page and went to the last post in my ISO and worked from there, and I wasn't going to delete most of what I'd done because I found someone else asked what I'd asked and/or because Quil replaced out.

Quick. Top two scum reads. Now. And with a brief discussion of why.

I'm just going to give my reads because it's hard for me to actually put them in any sort of cogent order at this juncture without talking myself through it as I go along. Bins is still my strongest townread for reasons discussed earlier, even if Reck flips scum I'll probably be looking elsewhere first. 34 I was town reading for town flail, Grib by his posts and fixation on Bins I am not, but his softclaim out of rooms thing seems town so the slot is overall pretty towny.

You I have as a lesser townread, driving activity well but I'm not getting the gut town vibe I'm getting from the other two and then there's a post every once in a while that I don't like. Akane is largely null at this point, the scumread I had on her has slowly disintegrated due top her retconning her read on 34 feeling natural and liking her reaction to yoncé I'm still a little wary of the slot but that's probably due to stubborness more than anything.

Jackel was a very early townread of mine to due to stream of conciousness posting but complete lack of anything has eradicated that, Gamma himself is null so far. Reck like Jackel was a very early townread as I liked how he handled the RVS theory discussion, that went out the window for obvious reasons, if he's not confirmed tomorrow then he absolutely needs to be the lynch, especially as it could be the pre-lylo or pre-mylo phase depending on NKs (or lack thereof).

Some of Quils push on Reck I liked by motivation looking genuine but there's hang-ups in the content of it I'm having a hard time getting past, the crappy meta-tell on Gamma in particular was bad. My vote on him was in no small part trying to help sort a null read but I didn't really succeed with anything.

[Not_Mafia]

I legitimately don't follow where your response here comes from.

That's how I felt about your initial response. It seems we agree here but have our wires crossed anyway

[Not_Mafia]

Yeah I'm not using my power and you can fuck yourself if you put me in a room with Akane.

So use it on Parama? Or try to negotiate the rooms? You're a confirmable role and it's as if you're asking to be lynched.

[Not_Mafia]

Spoiler: Response to Bulge

Colour Codes are Fun

Theory

IC

Vague

Unoriginal/Common Knowledge

Where is the followup/point?

Parama's out of nowhere aggression seems odd aswell

,

not sure if it's just a playstyle thing

The first part I can understand. How is saying someone's behaviour is out of place but it could be playstyle vague?

I got a couple of townreads from it, just not ones I feel the need in sharing at this point

Deliberately vague, for reasons that you literally quoted in this very same post

And why the callout for Thirty Four's unvote and not Flame's? Both seemed pretty appeasing

My point was she called out one person and not the other when they did the same thing, I didn't hate her explanation and didn't really have anything to question farther. This followup thing is something I keep getting scumread for recently, I can link if you wish.

Me advising 34, too impatient to quote strip properly

I always advise newbs, regardless of alignment

inexperience doesn't automatically make you town. newbie-town and newbie-scum still both make newbie mistakes. if you're town you shouldn't care how you look, you worry about the people you think are scum.

This is great in theory but fails often in practice in regards to newbies, some people are just going to get emotional and prioritise staying in the game for their few games. This is the same low-info lynch on a newb town I've seen many times.

Except this is game relevant "theory" and actually talking about a read I have and trying to derail a bad wagon

Jumps on Jackel quickly saying "Did you only vote me because you disliked my suggestion on how to use the doors? How did that make me vote worthy?" as if there were any worthier reasons to vote anyone 22 posts in.

oh so we should just never leave rvs or try to ask ppl about their reads right? ok ty glad to know youre functionally retarded

This is definitely what he meant

(Just straight-up fluff)

No it isn't, I'm pointing out his misrepresentation of Quilford's argument

Quilford's case read to me like the type of case someone subbing in makes, considering this...

Sorry, had to do a bit of study over the weekend.

I think it's relatively applicable

This is completely taken out of context and is in response to 172

We should be aiming to protect the towniest towns obviously but we also don't want to advertise to scum who they should be killing as we don't know yet if their kills a restricted to a room or if they have x-shot strongman kinda things where they can kill across rooms or a myriad of other possibilities where scum could wifom the shit out of NKs and all we end up actually doing is telling scum who to kill. Flavour wise kills within rooms only makes the most sense (I'm guessing, I've only played Virtue's Last Reward) but I feel like the game could be breakable like that as well, so I'm not sold.

Redundant and common knowledge yet just after this we had someone do the exact thing this was warning against

I'm curious though; you have me in your top 3 scumreads then? Even though a quick scan of your ISO shows exactly one comment that could even possibly be interpreted as an indication of suspicion and only says "odd" at worst.

I'm PoEing this game hard, you're at an intersection of not being in my top townreads and being a potential lynch candidate but I could see putting you in over 1 or 2 people I have in a room at the moment.

THE VAGUENESS HURTS

Again, deliberately vague, you quoted why yourself just above this, if you have a problem with the reasons then attack that

If Reck isn't confirmed town tomorrow we can lynch him then, trying to drive a wagon on him today is silly but I'm not going to bend over backwards trying to create some sort of foolproof plan for him with his attitude to/in the game so far.

There was still people driving a wagon on him even though he was confirmable, so it obviously wasn't "common knowledge"

A lot of what you quoted is not taking any sort of context in to account about what was happening. Or is just hyperbole and/or a lie. I can go through any ISO in any game and colour code it with buzzwords with literally 0 explanation. This is objectively not a case.

I don't know how to read Reck because the passive-aggressiveness (just look at that fucking smile) could very well be fake rage. I don't think I've ever played a game with you before, reck, but you strike me as a kuribo-esque player (ie, rips your face off in a 1v1) but I know that players like that are very good at faking their town-rage.

I'm of the opinion that most rage is fake, and non-alignment indicative. Why was this, of everything, the most pertinent thing about Reck or the game that you found necessary to add on to a post about me?

As a side note, please space quotes when you do quote walls like that in the future as it so people can distinguish between a new set of quotes and nested quotes, it makes it a lot easier to respond in a decent format.

[Not_Mafia]

Basically all the tells of scum trying to look useful without actually affecting the state of the game.

This is important.

The post was not meant to be taken quote-by-quote, but as a whole just to demonstrate this point. Each post on its own is not inherently bad, but it takes up the majority of his early-game ISO.

The legitimacy of the tells themself aside, this does nothing to change that the vast majority of the post you quoted as evidence were either taken out of context for the tell you were applying to work, context you later quoted was flat out ignored to apply the tell, or was just incorrect. The whole is irrelevant if what you're saying about the quotes to justify the whole is nonsense. If you're really interested in discussing your read and not just securing my lynch then you can actually explain your problems with even one of the quotes you pulled out without distorting it or dismissing it off hand.

[Not_Mafia]

Well deadline is 6:30am in my timezone so if my wagon is a lynch wagon and people want a claim out of me it's gonna have to come in the next 4-5 hours

[Not_Mafia]

I read the replace out as null, purely out of lack of enjoyment.

[Not_Mafia]

And Reck. Not sure how you'd forget that.

[Not_Mafia]

We have to use vote tags for player votes

[Not_Mafia]

Why put Bulge in your room vote if you're voting to lynch him?

[Not_Mafia]

Reck, what exactly happened in your QT?

Me: lamenting about using QTs over PTs
Me: "so who should I confirm myself to guys"
Quil: "hey"
Quil: lamenting about not being able to read people this game
NM: also comments about using QTs over PTs, asks if we have anything we need to talk about

~fin~

This was literally it

[Not_Mafia]

The Bulge is the more difficult wagon to get through for both of us so unless you think we're scum together then I fail to see what us both being on the wagon really means. And we all seem to be acknowledging that Bulge is actively refusing to substantiate his case on me or actually comment on anyone else in the game other than a passing comment on Reck but don't seem to care too much. And is lurking off his wagon when he has plenty to talk about.

It's 2am and I'd like to sleep so if we're really really serious about my wagon I'd like intent declared as soon as possible.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm Town 1-Shot Vanillaiser, so shitty negative utility 'PR', I have no intention of using my shot outside of maybe confirming my role pre-lylo which even then is relatively pointless as it does nothing to confirm my alignment. The role only works within rooms, which perhaps counter intuitively makes me feel better about Grib's claim, as if he were fakeclaiming he'd go with what we were all assuming.

[Not_Mafia]

Ummm the whole of day 1 he had two votes

To makes this simple there are 3 possibilities here

- I'm scum vanillaiser with Reck
- I'm town vavanillaiser
- I'm scum and completely full of shit

I'll place my door vote and then go to sleepy byes

[Not_Mafia]

It's time to play twilight hangman

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[Not_Mafia]

You're disqualified, reporting to listmod

[Not_Mafia]

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_ E _ G E F _ L / M A F I O S O / _ I L L I _ G / G R I B

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_ E N G E F _ L / M A F I O S O / K I L L I N G / G R I B

[Not_Mafia]

V E N G E F U L / M A F I O S O / K I L L I N G / G R I B

[Not_Mafia]

Congrats town, thanks to Pie for hosting