512: Bojack Horseman Season 2 (Over)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

present.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Beautiful.

VOTE: sthar8

♥

p-edit: *sigh*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wisdom, I'm going to say this once and only once.

I told the mod I did not wish to play with you. I agreed to give it a go anyway. I will do my best to leave my personal feelings out of the game, but do not test my patience with stubborn pigheadedness. I'm bringing this up because I realize my feelings may be clouding my perception of your behavior, so I will try to keep it in check.
/ooc

MS. Where are you?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

My last encounter with you was distasteful. Or perhaps it was the one before it. I've heard you've been working on your aggression, so I'm willing to give it a chance. I know I'm no angel to play with sometimes either, but I just wanted to make it known.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

mk.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is me acknowledging that I choose not to RVS.


I don't need to this game.

You can still participate in the discussion.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why is that?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

This is me acknowledging that I choose not to RVS.


I don't need to this game.

You can still participate in the discussion.

maybe later.

absolutely not. i asked you to join because i wanted to play with you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: polar vortex

I am, without having a second head.


Anyone else here in the 90s was on a famous tv show? Just me?

Sheep me then!

VOTE: Firebringer

You can't trick me.

All aboard this for town glory!

I don't trick, I use subtle diversions to cast your eyes on me when their is actual scum lurking.

We're you on a famous tv show ?

I feel like you're semi-rolefishing.

it pinged but i didn't really have a reason why. i was going to say something about it being jumpy. why do you think that means kaboose is scum?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

is your push to wagon ETL RVS-based?

"nah" lol

of course it is.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you know more than me about the wagons I'm pushing, ETL?

Yeah. I know I'm town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Even if you were town, you would still not know whether my push on you is RVS or not.

I know what you're getting at. Stop it. I know your push isn't because of anything I actually said. So whether you're town or scum, it's because you're trying to piss me off on purpose. RVS is RVS no matter alignment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not trying to piss you off :/ Why would I want that?

Sorry, it's not RVS.

Ok. lol...

I'd love to hear it then.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

waiting for the case, wisdom.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am already regretting my decision.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

actually, this is better than replacing out

VOTE: Wisdom

[EspeciallyTheLies]

holy fuck lol wisdom I am spectating 3 ongoing games in the dead threads... lmfao

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ms knows that for a fact. pretty sure sthar does too.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

there is no reason for a damn reroll. jfc

[EspeciallyTheLies]

wisdom you should never have fucking /inned in the first place based on the fact I told you last time not to. and instead of playing the game you come with this bullshit. why am I not surprised at all?

I should have /outed when I saw it but I wanted to play with my friends.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

*sigh*

[EspeciallyTheLies]

let me reread everything so far.

i would probably be fine with no lynch but i don't know what we would get out of that except for saving us another day. we need information going into night.

be back in a minute

[EspeciallyTheLies]

so far my strongest townread by far is wingback,

which brings me to wanting more information about his read on kaboose.

(Just read post 91.) i know he was pointing out 22 but i think 56 is more troublesome than 22. "I always look scummy" is.. eugh.

The fact that Kaboose never asked Firebringer any follow-up questions or tried to develop a read on him makes me think his initial accusation was just a throwaway comment.

I like this a lot though. And the fact that Wingback felt the same way about 56 as I did. Definitely strengthens my read there. And his point about Polar Vortex throwing shade at me while voting elsewhere. BUT I do find Firebringer scummy so I don't think this point is enough to damn PVx. (Also, explanation in 98 seems reasonable.)

I'd love to hear more from Snowstorm - it seems like BBD is doing most of the posting right now, correct?

Did not realize that there are multiple people on 90s shows. It nullifies one of my reasons to suspect Kaboose.

How do you feel about Kaboose now?

ms makes me nervous. i feel like he may be giving me a fence-sitty town read to see how that will change my read of him, and i don't particularly like that.

sekai (ffery/pieguy?) - can you tell me more about your townread on firebringer? i didn't see anything as of 54 that made me feel one way or the other.

@ Sekai, explain your townread on Firebringer.

I thought he was softing something. had no idea what it might be. The reason I said it was a maybe town read rather than a town read was because it felt a little overdone/look at me, and because there were no obvious town-minded inquiry/reactions going with it.

ok. How do you feel about him now?

Re: 63/fake claims in AP games, he does provide fake claims if necessary. in sabotage mafia it was on request and i dont remember if he gave fake claims to scum in house party (i think he may have, but on request?)

I promise I will engage and play in this game... just not right now.

ily sthar. who's town?

Actually, Wingback's comments are following my very train of thought. I like him more and more. 100 asking Sekai about Firebringer townread is pulled right out of my head.

I like wisdom playstyle but I kinda think could be scum given his thoughts just on flavor for this theme.

I'm not a fan of this post. At all. Sekai - has your read on Firebringer remained the same or changed at all?

@ ETL, what's your read on Wisdom? I'm confused about whether you have an actual scumread there.

It was an actual scumread. At the time I felt like he was posturing and planning to deathtunnel me to avoid getting on any other wagons, and if he managed to get rid of me early, that would have been even better for him as scum.

i don't like metal sonic either. i think asking titus to replace into the game is more likely to be coming from him as scum than him as town because of how successful they generally are as scum and how much he enjoys spam posting as scum (they spent the majority of their recent scum game, we the purple, deliberately making a bunch of spam posts and shitting up the thread and i think he would really be looking forward to doing the same thing with her again).

I didn't even think about it like that. I didn't see that game but yeah he did that in... not orgo (was it?), the other anti large theme game, where he was scum with pirate mollie (i think.... feck i have the worst memory). what do you think about his treatment of me so far? take a look at uh... uh... we just finished a game where he played me like a fiddle. i'll get it. i just want to get this post out first and then i'll get links. in that game, he totally strung me along townreading me and validating my shitty reads.

i agree on wingback-town and, while i think the case on kaboose is mostly misguided (especially now that we know there's multiple people who appeared on a 90's show in the series), the point about him not asking any probing questions to follow up on it is a good one

Agree and agree. though i get the feeling that you think kaboose could be town here. can you expand a bit? i am not feeling great about him.

i don't like metal sonic either. i think asking titus to replace into the game is more likely to be coming from him as scum than him as town because of how successful they generally are as scum and how much he enjoys spam posting as scum (they spent the majority of their recent scum game, we the purple, deliberately making a bunch of spam posts and shitting up the thread and i think he would really be looking forward to doing the same thing with her again).

thats rude as fuck

is that your first thought when i ask titus to play with me?

thats absolutely shallow and thats only 3 steps higher than what mollie insulted me with.

why is it rude?

Hi guys, I just wanted most recent post!

This is shit post, ignore it.

What are your reads at the moment?

i just iso'd polar. not liking what I see.

Explain.


Ok, ignoring everything after wisdom posted his screenshot.

In only 2 short weeks we had fallen so deeply in love with each that it scared the both of us - especially since we were both still quite young. Within 3 months he asked me to hydra with him - and after 9 months I finally said "yes".

omg i read this whole thing... dying.

We need to policy lynch ETL.

I'd understand if people decided to do that.

Or we don't. I like ETL.



Wow but ETL's slot is compromised too >_>

It's not, because I don't have a PT for this game. It's literally retarded, and more so because the whole thing is actually wrong. But like I said, I'd probably feel the same way if it wasn't me in this position.

THAT BEING SAID, that's scummy as fuck, MS.

Day 1 can continue as normal.

Is the votecount reset to zeroes?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

alright yall, i know it's long but for reals read it. i'm here for a few hours and would like to talk to people.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

k.

VOTE: firebringer

@sekai: this game - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62192 BEES mafia

[EspeciallyTheLies]

We are No Lynching.

Stop trying to ruin Towns chances of winning nub.

I don't know who you are, but I hope you realize how fucking dumb this post sounds. You didn't even bother reading my posts or responding to them.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You are so bad, going to ignore your posts.

I mean you realize we just got information right? You are dumb town or scum.

Holy fuck who the hell do you think you are?

June 29 join date - either obvious alt or mistaken newbie.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

firebringer, what does wisdom's flip tell you about other players?

Yes, let's hear from the know-it-all what information we gained from the flip.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^ not sarcasm. Legit interested to see this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

firebringer, what does wisdom's flip tell you about other players?

Tells me Kaboose jumped from null to scum for me.

You are so bad, going to ignore your posts.

I mean you realize we just got information right? You are dumb town or scum.

Holy fuck who the hell do you think you are?

June 29 join date - either obvious alt or mistaken newbie.

Lol join date = skill level

So bad.

And yet with every post you demonstrate exactly how false that is in your case...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Tells me Kaboose jumped from null to scum for me.

You're going to have to do better than that. Explain why. And why, if he's scum, you feel like letting him live another day rather than voting for him right now?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

gives him the perfect reason to sidestep my questions for him

Yes, exactly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Wings and sonic. And I should be pretty solid town now too.

Agreed. No. Yes, I'm good with that for *reasons*.

I want you to look at sonic again though. Take a look at the game I linked.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

[EspeciallyTheLies]

that doesn't mean you are confirmed ms. if you are scum you already know I'm town.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok I'm here! For a few hours anyway

Looking forward to talking to sthar. Not liking MS. Claim and behavior is fishy at best; willing to let him go a night to see if he can redeem himself in some way.

Still don't like Firebringer either. Happy with my vote remaining there.

I'm confused on the Kaboose scum slip. Someone explain please?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I was adding a vote

This reads like you wanted to vote the largest wagon, which it wasn't, and you'd know that if you weren't skimming. I also know you don't skim as town.

p-edit: ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How is it damning when I don't have a PT for this game and I DO have several PTs for several other games?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's my point, MS. You can't find anything else to hang me with so you grab the only thing you can. You know getting rid of me is good for your team. I know you know it too.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

MS... there's no contradiction there...?

When a person skims, they get an idea of where pushes are happening based on the conversation. But if you were really reading, you'd have seen no votes were made.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Kaboose wasn't the largest wagon. You thought he was based on where the herd was going. You voted, thinking you were adding to the largest wagon, hoping to get an easy lynch. Instead, you just showed me how you aren't even in touch with the game because you don't need to be, because you already know who town are.

p-edit: Scum bravado.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That says more about the Kaboose pushes than it does about me, don't you think?

It tells me a lot about both of you. If you're scum, I think that almost guarantees Kaboose is not, and vice versa.

Lots of noise with no votes often indicates an actual scum wagon, BUT your behavior so far has been far more sketch than Kaboose's imo, and there are lot more points against you right now than against Kaboose.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why didn't Polar Bear vote his biggest scumread after writing a wall about it?

This is disingenuous considering they are a hydra and you know it often takes hydra more time to coordinate, especially if there is a definitive leader that one looks to for input more than the other, which is pretty clearly the case here. Whether they are town or scum doesn't change how that dynamic operates.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Kaboose wasn't the largest wagon. You thought he was based on where the herd was going. You voted, thinking you were adding to the largest wagon, hoping to get an easy lynch. Instead, you just showed me how you aren't even in touch with the game because you don't need to be, because you already know who town are.

p-edit: Scum bravado.

How can you justify your position, instead of "Metal Sonic was not skimming and he decided to start a new wagon since he knows that there were no votes on the player"?

Occam's razor. That makes no sense. I'm looking for cause/effect. Not "Here's a thing that's weird, let me make up a weirdo reason to justify it, rather than search for the actual reason."

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why didn't Polar Bear vote his biggest scumread after writing a wall about it?

This is disingenuous considering they are a hydra and you know it often takes hydra more time to coordinate, especially if there is a definitive leader that one looks to for input more than the other, which is pretty clearly the case here. Whether they are town or scum doesn't change how that dynamic operates.

Right. So I helped them.

What makes you think that is "scum wanting an easy lynch" instead of "Town wanting to help one another"?

The way you framed that question made it sound like you were trying to throw shade at them for it. Now you are saying you were trying to help them?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Kaboose wasn't the largest wagon. You thought he was based on where the herd was going. You voted, thinking you were adding to the largest wagon, hoping to get an easy lynch. Instead, you just showed me how you aren't even in touch with the game because you don't need to be, because you already know who town are.

p-edit: Scum bravado.

How can you justify your position, instead of "Metal Sonic was not skimming and he decided to start a new wagon since he knows that there were no votes on the player"?

Occam's razor. That makes no sense. I'm looking for cause/effect. Not "Here's a thing that's weird, let me make up a weirdo reason to justify it, rather than search for the actual reason."

There's the problem, you see. You need to explain how you reached the Occam's razor of "Metal Sonic was skimming and mistakenly thought that it was the largest wagon."

You're already making 2 assumptions:
1. Metal Sonic is skimming.
2. Metal Sonic is wants to vote the largest wagon.

And two more bonus:
3. Metal Sonic's action is scum-motivated
4. Metal Sonic-Scum feels that Kaboose is an easy lynch.


Are you applying Occam's Razor correctly?

Here's how it occurred to me - I saw you make your vote and explain why when snowdra asked. The explanation sounded superficial to me, and I wanted to know why. So if you had another motive for placing your vote, what was it? In this game, there are two motives - town and scum. Town motive to place a vote should be based on suspicion and/or reaction gathering,

neither of which you indicated,

which means scum motivation, i.e. getting a town lynch as quickly as possible without being caught. So if that's true, why vote Kaboose over someone else? Like Firebringer (answer: because he's probably partner here). It must be because you thought that's where the vote needed to go. So how could you have missed that he had no votes? Must be because you've been skimming, which also supports the idea that it is scum motivation behind the vote, rather than town.

It is very easy to skim a thread and get a gist of where the town is moving. You thought the town was moving on Kaboose, you jumped.

p-edit: I'm at work.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Kaboose - I agreed with many of wingback's points about you.

p-edit: I was speaking generally.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

OH i see what your question is. I meant more in terms of one person posting but conferring with the other on votes, etc.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But the point was a general one in that his statement read to me like he was trying to cast suspicion on your slot by saying that you didn't vote despite writing a wall about a suspicion that you had, which I found to be disingenuous regarding hydra in general.

With him now saying he's townreading you, negates the statement, however, I really feel like that was the intention. His reads are flipfloppy and make zero sense, and none of them really substantiated.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But the point was a general one in that his statement read to me like he was trying to cast suspicion on your slot by saying that you didn't vote despite writing a wall about a suspicion that you had, which I found to be disingenuous regarding hydra in general.

With him now saying he's townreading you, negates the statement, however, I really feel like that was the intention. His reads are flipfloppy and make zero sense, and none of them really substantiated.

Yes, it also looked to me like he was casting doubt. But I don't understand the motivation of changing his read there...

Because I called him out on it right away and now he is backpedaling.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, you may have missed my point against Kaboose. It's an acute version of yours on Sonic. He mentioned he voted firebringer because other people(me and you) jumped on him. That's the wall(if you think that's a wall... ) he's mentioned(and also the "scumslip")

ah... ok. I have a full reread planned for today, but it's quite busy at work at the moment. I will have time for it in a few hours most likely, when the bosses leave

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Here's an analogy. B walks up to a girl in a bar and says, "Hi". You, upon seeing this, immediately call B out for "attempting to rape a minor". Your explanation is that "He was striking up conversation with a young girl whom he did not know", and "The girl is young and pretty", therefore, using your rule that "Men usually talk to young pretty girls in order to go to bed with them", you finally arrive at the aforementioned conclusion. None of your speculations, however, are supported by the evidence.

Except in your analogy you are assuming a false dichotomy, whereas in this situation, there is EITHER town motivation OR scum motivation. I ruled out town motivation as I did not see it. You then saying it is there whether you show it or not does nothing for me, unless I see it. The burden of proof is on you to show me that you are town if you are. The burden on me is to determine your alignment correctly. If you don't show it to me, whose fault is it that you are read one way or the other? Mine? Or yours? You are not exhibiting town signals. Therefore, I wonder why they are missing.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In this game, you are either an angel or a demon.

A man in a bar is many things in between, but certainly never only angel or demon.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why do you keep ignoring what I'm saying?

When one skims, it is easy to get the gist of where the town is heading. If you skimmed, it's likely that you got the idea that Kaboose was a leading wagon based on where the thread was going.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You're being really impudent and it's beginning to irritate me. If you aren't willing to have a real discussion without being antagonistic, we can stop right now.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But if I did not skim?

Again, we come back to the initial line that I responded to - you said you just decided to add it. Why would you just decide to do so? If town, then it must be due to some suspicion, except you've made no mention of such suspicion. So, yes, I have ruled that out because you have not provided this as such a reason, and in fact, despite it being brought up several times, still have not said anything about suspicion on Kaboose.

Therefore, there is another reason this vote was made. You made no mention of townreading the snowdra (I'm sorry, I can't remember the actual name - I'll get it in a second). Yet when pressured to explain your vote, your first response is NOT "I was helping them push a target" (which... um.. you did in BEES with me), it was "to add a vote".

So then you decide to backpedal and say it was because you wanted to help them push the wagon, and then clarify that you are town reading them and this is why, despite saying at first that it was just to add the vote.

So... really, MS. Enough.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I actually agree with MS on this. The fact that technically people didn't vote kaboose doesn't mean he wasn't paying attention. The distinction is superficial

No no. It's not that by itself. It's the fact that he said he just wanted to "add it". Don't you see that the language implies he thought there were already votes there?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the fact that people weren't actually voting him is a bit irrelevant

Actually quite the opposite. It says a lot about the game state and those who are making the noise without the votes.

Why would people not be voting a suspect they all agree on?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

MS was the only one to jump on it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Looking forward to talking to sthar. Not liking MS. Claim and behavior is fishy at best; willing to let him go a night to see if he can redeem himself in some way.

Still don't like Firebringer either. Happy with my vote remaining there.

What are your reads on everyone else?

Still forming on everyone else besides you, MS and Firebringer. I haven't gotten to the stage where I can put everyone in a proper place yet. I generally try to gather a couple townreads first. So far I think you are town almost definitely, and that's pretty much it at the moment. I'm leaning town on the hydrae - ffery is harder for me to read than Snowstorm though not by much, but in terms of strength I'd say the snowdra is stronger than the fferydra. I'd be more comfortable holding onto snowdraTown for right now than fferydraTown.

You voted, thinking you were adding to the largest wagon, hoping to get an easy lynch.

This seems like you now have Kaboose as town. I thought you agreed with my earlier posting that Kaboose was scum so what changed your mind from Kaboose-scum to MetalSonic-scum looking for an easy lynch (of Kaboose)?

Only if MS is actually scum. It's less that I think Kaboose is town and more that I think MS is scum.

It tells me a lot about both of you. If you're scum, I think that almost guarantees Kaboose is not, and vice versa.

I'm assuming you think Metal Sonic is the more likely one.

[Correct]

Also, can you answer my question on your scumreads of Kaboose and Firebringer. They were both pushing each other but you didn't eliminate them as a scumteam. But with Sonic/Kaboose, you rule out that pairing. What are the differences between Kaboose/Fire and Kaboose/Sonic that you rule out one pairing but not the other?

Nothing that Firebringer has said has had any weight behind it. None of his posts show any real conviction. His "push" on Kaboose is completely flimsy, and Kaboose is.. eh. He's not doing a lot but the last page or so he seems to be doing more. To be clear, I didn't have a scum read on Kaboose. I was more trying to sort him out and agreed with some of your observations - just not necessarily the conclusion of those observations.

His reads are flipfloppy and make zero sense, and none of them really substantiated.

This was one of my problems with Metal Sonic as well but I wondered if he's just that type of player. You indicated you played with him before. Is any of it playstyle-based?

It's a general scumtell, in that scum often like to waffle on their reads so that voting anyone is a viable option without too much suspicion. They can say "But look! I have been scumreading him." as a way to justify votes.

If you're asking about meta, I don't have the impression that he is a flipfloppy player, but realistically I could go look at past games to see what his tendency has been. If a person is especially waffley as a playstyle, I do tend to remember that. AP is a waffley player. Tammy is a waffley player. MS never stood out as a waffley player to me so in this game, yes, it does seem significant to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ETL, Snow may be easier to read for you, but he's had like 3 posts

Yes I know. I said that both reads were very weak at the moment.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

How about the fact you questioned MS's vote, but then defended it against ETL?

I questioned it because it wasn't explained, but I still thought ETL's accusations were unfounded. Try to pay attention please

You disagreed with my assessment that he was probably skimming. But it does not negate the fact that his vote was placed with no verifiable or observable town intentions, and the only intentions it appears to have is a scum motivated.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But why don't you think he could be partnered with kaboose? It's very easy to see a scenario where scum sonic thought kaboose partner was doomed so he wanted to be seen on the mob. And like Wingback has mentioned, he didn't mention kaboose before which again makes the partnership more likely

Hm. This is a possibility I suppose. I don't think MS is that obvious a scum player though.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

boring

This post is where my vote came from. If anyone else suggests it was for any other reason, they can kindly fuck off for being ignorant.

Ok, explain why that post is suspicious

because I took the time and effort to read the thread and provide my thoughts on everything in detail, and it was an opportunity for him to contribute/interact, and he chose to dismiss it entirely and not make a single comment on anything i'd said instead.

does that sound like something town would do? or something that scum would do in an effort to discredit a town player and brush off anything they had to say?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sorry i know that was meant for kaboose but that post really pisses me off.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

But dom't you think the way he said he'll ignore me is a very very convenient way to ignore all my pressure on him?

Fuck yeah I do.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sthar i found a new member for my blacklist.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Like, it's one thing to argue about mafia theory and be a stubborn ass about it when you're right, but it's totally another to do that when you are dead wrong and have been told so several times by players who have far more experience than you do.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's another to blacklist them because you disagree with them.

Not why I've decided to blacklist you at all.

I disagree with several players here. You are the only one I wish to never play with again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

In any event, via scum hunting, it is NOT a "completely random lynch". Let's cut that bullshit short right now.

Bottom line is, we're not no lynching today. Move on. Do something useful or stfu, Firebringer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

who?

p-edit @etl

Catch up and get back to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I gotta ask, what do you gain by telling me that you are blacklisting me?

Like you honestly could just play the game and after just stay clear of games I am in.

I don't get the point of telling me other than to let me know you are mad.
I am clearly not going to change my style of play to accommodate you. I don't think I have said anything personally to you I should feel sorry for.

So I don't get it.

Play the game.
You don't have to play with me after.

I'm letting you know so you don't sign up for games I'm already in.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I gotta ask, what do you gain by telling me that you are blacklisting me?

Like you honestly could just play the game and after just stay clear of games I am in.

I don't get the point of telling me other than to let me know you are mad.
I am clearly not going to change my style of play to accommodate you. I don't think I have said anything personally to you I should feel sorry for.

So I don't get it.

Play the game.
You don't have to play with me after.

I'm letting you know so you don't sign up for games I'm already in.

If I like the game I am signing up for it.

I don't have a problem with you, you have problem with me.
Either get over it or don't but why should I accommodate you because you can't be a adult?

I'm asking you politely not to. I provide all mods with my blacklist upon signing up. If I signed up first, the onus will be on you.

I've said what I had to say. This is no longer game related.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't really agree that his opinion of no-lynch even if wrong, even if he persistently continued defending it is indicative of alignment

I don't think anyone is saying that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sthar, i assume you're fully read up?

why kaboose over firepants?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

saying "lalalalala I can't hear you"

Seriously.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Polar there is no way in hell I agree that he's just "bad townie".

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sthar please save my sanity. tell me you looked at the link i posted for BEES re: metal sonic. if you say you are townreading that after his posts today i will die.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

EBWOP no i didnt have time to look. But it doesnt matter.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ok.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not ready for the day to end yet. I need more solid townreads before going into night.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Sick today but I'm at work so I have access. Don't like how "unvoted me = town". Can't decide if Firebringer is just horrible town or horrible scum. Don't like MS at all, but agree with sthar. However, Kaboose logic makes sense in "if I'm a JOAT, cop is unlikely". Curious to go see if Kaboose had a marked reaction when the claim occurred. Will check that later when I'm more awake/able to breath/see.

agh. something pinged me hard this morning and i thought it was from one of the hydra and now i can't find it.

Vote Count 1.4

Firebringer(2) - EspeciallyTheLies, Kaboose
Kaboose(1) - sthar8

Not Voting(5): Metal Sonic, Sekai no Ki, Polar Vortex, Firebringer, Wingback

-----------

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Aypee... You are missing vote on MS from 540.

feck man. even reading backwards i couldn't find it. i will re-read and hopefully it pings again. for now i am going to drown my face in green tea. bbl.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh my jesus how did so many pages happen? i'm at bottom of page 25. losing steam. i need someone to have a conversation with me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ms/firebringer makes a lot of sense to me. why isn't firebringer raising hell about ms lying? why isn't ms raising hell about firebringer being a lazy sack of .....? instead they are stroking each other's cocks about how towny they are and how wonderful it is to play with each other.

sorry. that doesn't fly. scum hunt or get dead.

my allergies are worse today than yesterday but again, i am at work and have access so i will check in every so often but then i am going home and staying home for two days.

p-edit: you are not on my town list.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

we can talk. i'm just at the point where i cant do anything about you until tomorrow. i strongly believe you are scum, and therefore find conversation pointless as all you will do is attempt to manipulate me, and i'm not interested in that. for today, i want to make my own conclusions and find town buddies who aren't going to lead me to the volcano like a blind puppy.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm not telling you how to get me to town read you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i dont care if you townread me or not ms. i'm going to lynch you tomorrow if you dont have something better than you had today.

hi kaboose. who is your strongest townread?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I can also help if you want. But you don't have an inno read on me, so... You said something abour one of the hydras pinging you I think. Do you remember what?

i don't but i haven't had a chance to reread from where i was when that happened. it was a "*raised brow* that's a weird thing to say" thing.

i'm ambivalent about both hydra. i don't have confidence reading ffery at all. she always looks like she's scumhunting no matter what. she looks like she is here, and it's more paranoia going "don't town read that so fast!!!" than anything actually missing or pinging i think.

and i just dont really know how to evaluate what you and snowstorm are doing. it looks good on the surface.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i'm surprisingly ok with having kaboose near conf town status just for the way the claim happened and how he played it, and also while i'm not entirely familiar with the flavor, i know bojack isn't a bad guy, not really, in the show and he's the main character so i kind of don't think AP would make that character scum.

I will town read wingback because of you, but I don't know if I would if it wasn't for your read on them.

i do believe very strongly that wingback is town. a lot of his posts have mirrored my own thoughts. if i weren't townreading him, how would you feel? why would you feel that way?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I've already explained the same question to pieguy. Maybe you are lazy to look it up. Let me show you the sparknotes version

1) he is not giving me town vibes

2) everyone is giving me town vibes

3) I must suspect 2 people or something


So that is why he is a suspect

this literally made me smack my hands against my face and drag my cheeks and eye lids downward.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

you mean like this?

no. more like this.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

woohoo! accidental pagetop!

let's have a checkpoint

Town

Metal Sonic
Kaboose (Only because Claim)
Firebringer
Sekai no Ki
sthar8
Polar Vortex
EspeciallyTheLies
Wingback

lol wow

[EspeciallyTheLies]

and that is how i know you are scum.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

because i know you aren't that bad and yet you've got me and my top town read at the bottom of your list.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

and my top scum read at the top of your list!

you are an amazing player. BoP absolutely applies to you.

p-edit: if you were town, you'd actually take the time to look at firebringer more closely. you'd see that his ISO is full of bullshit, and attempts to dismiss valid arguments. but you aren't doing that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

saying "but he's playing too badly to be scum" is such a terrible cop out...??? especially if he's your partner?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Polar, i agree with sthar that he's better lynch for tomorrow based on what he does. i'd rather lynch firebringer today.

p-edit: i suppose but i think you are wrong about firebringer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because if he's NOT scum, he's an asset, and giving him a night to prove himself is beneficial in that case. He's the new oldMastin.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Because if he's NOT scum, he's an asset, and giving him a night to prove himself is beneficial in that case. He's the new oldMastin.

How is he an asset? You don't seriously believe he's a cop, do you?

Because he's an INCREDIBLE player. He's an expert scumhunter with great instincts. I would LIKE to trust him. If I can determine him to be town, I want that. I want the ability to lean on him and work with him. I'm more willing to allow that possibility than I am to throw it away if I'm wrong.

I don't know if he's a cop or not and I don't particularly care. I am hoping that he'll do something fantastic, because if he's town, I can almost guarantee that he will. (That being said, if I die tonight, lynch the fuck out of him tomorrow.)

Besides, he IS scum.

There's no way you can know that for certain. I have plenty of reason to believe that he is, but I also recognize that a lot of it is paranoia, and I want more time to sort him. So in the meantime, even if he is scum, there's still one other mafia out there to find. And I believe it is Firebringer.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sthar for jesus get off kaboose, get back in the thread and talk to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

etl, how confident are you that sthar8 is town?

not at all. he's totally null. i need to interact with him significantly and haven't had a chance to do that yet.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm a little skeptical of your assertions that my scum and town games are so similar. You had no trouble at all discerning I was scum in the Arcadia game.

I had antihero to bounce my thoughts off and i was in the zone during that game. I haven't played a lot lately, just been spectating games.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Do you find pieguy to be equally difficult to sort?

I don't even remember a game I've played with pieguy so it's just reading the way i would read any new person. like wingback or firebringer. never played with either of them before, so i'm going by gut.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

hopefully now by interaction. at this point i'm wanting to lynch firebringer and go from there. i feel like you will fall into place after that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

a hypothetical scum-Sthar8 would have to townread etl I think if she's town

no. ETL, you wanna dig up that little game with snork?

did you know i was snork in there?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i dont htink you did. you wouldn't have called me a hyperaggressive little prick if you did.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

that was the other snork game. i'm talking about the 5p where i kept saying "you should hydra with ETL! you play exactly the same!"

oh lol.. i remember that but i dont remember that game at all

[EspeciallyTheLies]

anyway have you finished reading? what do yout hink

[EspeciallyTheLies]

oh you little jerk. i just reread your ISO in that game.

you didn't know i was snork there either! that was just before i told you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think there's one scum between him and ETL.

called it lol

[EspeciallyTheLies]

unless you are doing that to make me townread you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

answer my other question.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

anyway have you finished reading? what do yout hink

[EspeciallyTheLies]

nevermind. i'm dumb.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i feel like firebanger is the low hanging fruit here.

so you're townreading him then...? because... yuck?

liking sonic a whole lot less, and I'm still annoyed with his claim. I think there's one scum between him and ETL.

i don't think it's impossible that sonic could be town here.

pfferie are pinging me but I'm not sure why. Might be because y'all are such cute little bunnies and they've got teeth.

gimme more on this.

Can someone summarize the wing case for me? I don't see it.

i think that's sonic's thing. wing is super duper town for me.

I need to think about who I want to vote.

ETL for president 2016

[EspeciallyTheLies]

how do you feel about ffery rn?

no feelings. i've been losing steam the last couple days but could be due to allergies being a bitch. i'm isong now

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There's actually a really big easy push on me that's not happening for some reason

cuz i'm not scum. otherwise i'd be trying to lynch your face.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Post 225 is the first obviously ffery post I've noticed. Having no experience with pieguy that I can recall, ffery is probably going to be my meter for the hydra. I like the "talking out loud". She said she was going to go through my reasons on Firebringer but I don't remember if she ever followed up on that.

258 is another ffery post. 259 as well. 260. Interesting note on the claim, I wonder if there's one town "seeking neighborizer" and one scum one. I can't imagine AP putting two of these in the same faction. With Wisdom's flip, honestly this makes me want to vote sekai right the fuck now.

284 another ffery post. (Am I right so far?) Meh.

317 is the first notion, that I recall, of MS lying about his claim.

Why did you instantly assume he was lying?

Based on your claim in 260, there's no reason you should have had, setup-wise, to suspect such a thing.

349 another ffery post. 355. This is.. yes. Ok. I don't remember if you agree that MS is pretty damn scummy today, but this is pretty much the same thing I have been saying. Same in 407. Agreed. Strongly.

494 another ffery post. The waffle on kaboose rubbed me the wrong way.

Did you review his play in TM nightless?

513 looks and sounds like another ffery post.

Why doesn't it bother you that Firebringer isn't screaming for MS's head for lying? Doesn't it seem too easy to "town read" a player who is townreading you and push those who are pushing you? If he's as idealistic/other-site-meta/newbie as you believe, why the disconnect on this here?

This is a major thing that needs investigating and no one is talking about it. You pointed it out and then let it go, saying you think FB is misguided town or something like that, low hanging fruit. I am saying, that's BS and there are more things here people are missing.

It looks like pie for a while, though 584 SOUNDS like ffery, I don't think it is. I like pieguy. I feel like the thoughts are easy to follow.

I think 605 is another ffery post. PBPA is something I'm always certain to find in a ffery-ISO. There's a lot of information in this post that I don't have the energy to really sift through at the moment. Tons of ideas I need to evaluate. I want to, but I don't want to. I'd like to check the rest of the ISO and if I can't grab a better feeling of their alignment after that I will come back to this post.

610 is a ffery post.

What do you mean "it felt off"?

I don't understand that timestamps thing. Oh wait now I remember. You said something about me/MS as a team. What am I supposed to say to that other than "no you're wrong"?

611 another ffery post. Missed this question first go around. It was more of an "at the moment that is probably ok but let me read the thread and see if my mind has changed" statement. I needed to work out the benefits/losses of a no lynch before deciding if I really felt that was the right thing to do. After reading, I didn't feel like Wisdom's flip did anything for me, except make me angry at Wisdom. I wanted to get more out of the day, and felt that agreeing to a no lynch, at the time, would stagnate the game. If the threat of lynch was real, then reactions would be more real. At this point, I am fine with either because I've gotten more out of the day than I initially had.

ffery again in 613. I kind of like the comments about MS but the excessive use of "bothered" as a qualifier/justification is iffy, buuuut they are backed up with explanation, and I do like that a lot. There is a transparency here that I think would be, not difficult to fake, but difficult to maintain.

A bunch of pie posts followed by ffery in 631 (I think?) 643 is what I was referring to when I told MS that his shade-throwing at Polar was basically gross.

More pie then ffery from 743 onward.

ok so my basic conclusion is that sekai is probtown. a lot of the same ideas and thought processes are occurring there that I am following and agreeing with and having myself. Wingback is town for much of the same reason and this method of townhunting has often been a good marker. I like the hydra so much more after ISO.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's not so much about being antitown as it is being overtly antagonistic, impudent and stubborn

in order to

avoid contributing anything substantial. He may feel like he isn't able to do so believably as scum. This was actually one of the things I resorted to quite often as my scumgame deteriorated. You can see it in whatever most recent Anti game where I was scum, I think with Guyett and Flubber or someting like that, and ended up with mastin in LYLO. it was super rough. i've lost the will to be scum these days. I lose interest in the game. scum hunting is so much more fun.

anyway my point is that it is an easy and unconscious switch from puzzle-solving to combativeness and even ffery pointed out a marked difference in his playstyle.

what are you talking about, soft claiming? i didn't see any other claims? the only thing i got was kaboose and ms who claimed outright. oh and ffery who said they were a neighborising neighbor something. and sthar who basically said he can confirm himself.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

STHAR I DID THIS FOR YOU AND YOU DISAPPEARED WITHOUT A WORD.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think she was saying that in that game, there were more European players in contrast, so the interaction was not as direct as it is here, where one can immediately go back and forth with him on what he's saying.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't know. I gave my understanding of the statement. She'll have to answer, but in any case I don't see the relevance of the argument at hand?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Just wanted to comment on something

ok..... why?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You haven't bothered to ask me anything about how I feel, why I feel that way or anything. You're not trying to sort me at all.

You're looking for friends who won't lynch you LYLO.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

If he turns out to be lying

He already has admitted to lying, but you have not said a thing about it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I have not been antagonistic. You were quite rude in the beginning, and as a matter of record, I mentioned black listing. But otherwise, I am treating you as a player in the game, one that I must interact with in order to sort.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

^ what?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

The "even if I'm lying" kind of is an admission, don't you think?

Oh that's what he's asking about. Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I get the feeling that FB is taking this a solo game, when it is very much a team game. If he is town, it would make for a far better team effort if he tried to communicate without so much hostility. You don't need to be friends with someone to not be rude.

p-edit: See Polar's post. MS said, "Even if I'm lying, I'm still town."

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Why would I lie about something that can be proven with thread history......

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There's a difference between discussion and antagonism. You accuse me of antagonism, but when people post things looking for feedback, and your feedback is "You're a bad player. This post is boring." the reaction is not going to be very favorable to you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

There's a difference between discussion and antagonism. You accuse me of antagonism, but when people post things looking for feedback, and your feedback is "You're a bad player. This post is boring." the reaction is not going to be very favorable to you.

What?

You can discuss and be antagonistic at same time

you dolt.

One doesn't exclude the other.

Nice.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm done with Firebringer. There's no having an actual conversation with him that doesn't include insults and hostility.

There is no room for nastiness. This is a game among friends. If you can't be respectful, you can gtfo.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And the only reason you think I'm scum is because you don't like my attitude towards you, as you have admitted.

That is not a good reason.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

You like MS because he was nice to you. You liked Polar because he unvoted you, where you were scumreading him before, suddenly you weren't.

This is not scumhunting at all.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I am V/LA starting now until Friday morning, just FYI. I will try to check in at least once tomorrow when I jump into work for an hour, but otherwise, I'm not here.

p-edit: In this jury, it only has to be 50%+1.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ok i'm back. reading.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

anyway, firebringer at the very least MS has been misleading. I feel like you're

bending over backwards to minimize that

when if you're town you should be thinking about it squarely - what town benefit and what scum benefit could accrue from his actions.

This is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say.

but nothing points at me being scum? what are you talking about?

For starters, your "laugh-in-your face scum attitude". Then there are your terrible reads, your bad vote, your chit chat spam...


It's pretty sad looking at that vote count and thinking the only good vote there is ours. Come on town.

So the grass is orange, your nose is blue, and Orlando is bigger than China, and that makes me scum.

Yeah, anybody on earth can knows that's bullshit.

This is another incredibly disingenuous attempt to discredit a valid argument.

Polar brought up 4 excellent, honest points against MS here - all of which are completely true, and all MS did was try to make it look like they were totally invalid and ridiculous.

ETL, do you still think Firebringer is scum?

Yes. He's done zero actual scumhunting. If I were an investigative role, I'd be looking at him tonight.

I'm Detectivr Polar from the North Pole

I'm not familiar with the show - I only saw the first couple episodes, but a google search shows nothing for "Detective Polar".

You have no credibility as a scumhunter and we are all superior to you

Talk about rude. This is incredibly scummy coming from MS.

Sthar8. On the surface, I love what he's doing. I think it's incredibly diplomatic and definitely benefits the game in a town way. But I also know he's a crafty bastard and can easily mold a narrative to arrive at the conclusion he wants people to have. Objectively, his interaction with firebringer is pretty town. However, it's a bit of a hyperfocus and could be intended to allow him to avoid commentary elsewhere.

UNVOTE:

sthar8/MS? actually.....

No, lynching all liars, catches scum and promotes good town play. Read a wiki.

uuummmmm as idealistic as this sounds, it's a good policy. MS is right too in that it does require some critical thinking, but Kaboose is absolute correct about promoting good town play.

The reason the policy requires critical thinking NOW is because stupid townies still lie because they get away with it. Because LAL isn't a hard and fast rule. Because we DON'T promote good town play. Because we DON'T lynch all liars. It is a dwindling spiral that will turn this site into EpicMafia forum style.

Sometimes the best strategy for town is to lie.

YES

BUT

NOT THE KIND OF LIE MS MADE HERE.

/tangent

Yeah I really wanna lynch MS.

Ok, I was joking. Wanted kaboose's reaction since I was paranoid of him. Now I'm not. That reaction is pure town.

This made me raise an eyebrow. Looks kind of fabricated yo.

I will basically be here until likely endgame.

What made you say this?

I've played very little with Sthar8

I've played very lots with sthar8 and I think he's scum.

UNVOTE: ETL

I will await till day ends now.

But why remove the vote?

Given how much time you and ETL are wasting trying to deal with him,

Ya know... I don't like this. You know very well how I operate, and how I respond to misplaced arrogance. No extra effort has been devoted to firebringer. In fact, I've done more towards trying NOT to blow up at him and focus on other players than I have towards responding to him.

you stand there playing video games and wondering why the manager fired you

your analogy is wronger.

firebringer is not playing video games. he has a speech lisp and people are calling for the manager to fire him because you hate hearing his sound + he is "new on the block"



wait till he brings in the fire

then you will be fired

Sonic you are the only enjoyment I get out of this game lol.

I hope you are town.

This and Sonic's post that he quoted pretty much discounts a Sonic/Firebringer team.

wat? Why on earth do you think that?

my impression was that Metal Sonic was going out of his way to get Firebringer to townread him.

Well... yes. I suspect MS more than firebringer, and sthar8 more than firebringer at this point as well.

You pretty clearly criticized Snowstorm for me dealing with firebringer is weird

The most important thing to know about being in a hydra is to operate as a single entity, and that means taking responsibility for the things your partner has said/done. Hydra dissonance is a Bad Thing and a reason that there is so much resistance against hydra in mafia. Take it on the chin and move on, otherwise I'm going to assume that you're claiming dissonance as a way to shirk responsibility on the slot's actions.

guys, this day has gone too long. Figure out that you want to lynch firebringer already plz

What are your thougts about MS and sthar8?

Now, my problem with you is that you haven't been as present, and when you are you chose to spend time on a slot you described as low hanging fruit. When you said that about Fire you also said you believed there to be scum in MS/ETL and that Ffery was pinging you. But instead of pursuing those leads you chose to focus on the low hanging fruit you think is disruptive. That's not productive, and by focusing on Firebringer it's like you're hanging the fruit even lower.

This is actually a really good observation.

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

Yeah I could get behind this today as well.

If, after a player understands another player's reads and does'nt move on to other steps in sorting, the implicit message is that they don't have a problem with the posts and are satisfied with explanations.

Which doesn't gibe with a null read.

hence my wanting to know how she plans to sort us.

You are not a null read. At the time you were because I'd been focusing elsewhere.

Ok. I need to get some things done at work right now, and I have a meeting between 12 and 2, but I'll continue after that.

note to self - continue reading from post 969

[EspeciallyTheLies]

sorry it's so long...

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Right, so I would you be mad if I said "I want to lynch Sthar over MS because I just don't think MS is scum but I don't think he's a cop."?

Why are you asking if I would be mad about your reads?

But no... I wouldn't be mad. I'm down to lynch either of the two today.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Polar Vortex is fucking scum.

INTRO

Polar Vortex has demonstrated a lack of scumhunting desire and engagement throughout the course of this game. Instead of wondering who the scum are, and trying to figure out what the motivations or intents of the players in the game, they delve into theory discussion and skating by through posts that attempt to look like contributing but are actually lacking in substance. They show an ingenuine thought process with regards to their scumreads, which seem like weak attempts to push mislynches. The following paper will discuss these points in detail

---

part 2 tomorrow its midnight here

are you on fucking drugs?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

ok i'm back. continuing my catch up

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I jumped on defending ETL from wisdom's attempted cheating. It's possible that the scumteam is oblivious enough to have not seen it, it is possible that ETL is scum and her team decided not to push something that implicated her, and it is possible that the scumteam didn't think they'd have enough traction from that to lynch me.

yeah that didn't happen sthar. where the heck did you defend me??

[EspeciallyTheLies]

VOTE: Sthar.

Firsts.

omgus

VOTE: polar vortex

uhh....are you voting polar because he's voting sthar....?????

lolwow. most blatant chainsaw ever.

ETL- did you catch my early game crumbs?

No. I wasn't looking for any. But you should already know what I think of your crumbs when you make them.

I think rn I want PV, but I might compromise onto sonic for all the buddying.

How about a self-vote?

Polar in 982 catching the same thing I did. I LIKE.

sldfjka;dlkfja;l I am being interrupted by work things. I'll be back again soon. 983

[EspeciallyTheLies]

no matter how demoralized ETL is hoping I am

[EspeciallyTheLies]

That's not cool, sthar. Trying to guilt me out of a scumread that I explained pretty damn clearly.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

just an update yall I am woefully behind on reading and I'm a little busy with life things but I have not given up on this game. just going through some stuff right now. give me 24 - 48 hours. <3

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ok. I'm back, at work anyway, so easy computer access. Mentally I'm still preoccupied with other matters. I am considering replacing out, I think it may be a bit too much but I will try to catch up today and if I don't get it done by the time I go home, then I will let someone who has the time to devote to this game have the slot.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

if you replace out i will consider replacing out.

Please don't do that to AP. I'm going through a fuckton of hurt IRL right now - it's a matter of necessity... if you have the time to play the game, then play the game please. sthar8, pieguy, ffery, snowstorm are all still here.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think sthar's sudden push on Polar is lame, and this bit is particularly scummy:

You'll note I'm not voting for you yet. I need to talk to the other players first.

look at ETL tell me why I should town read her?

because i'm town, and that should be clear as crystal by now. whether you know me or not, whether you LIKE me or not, is irrelevant. trust the players in the game who DO know me and like me - they cannot all be scum with me, can they? my scumgame may not be easily detected, but my town game is really obvious.

sthar's questioning re: fire is actually the exact same thing he did to me in the team mafia game where he was scum: he asked me a bunch of questions about how i play in general (which had nothing to do with what was actually happening in the game) to get an idea of "how i think". i'm interested in if he has a tendency to do this as town and, if he does, whether he does it in the same way he did it here.

this is a great observation. my impression of townSthar is aggressive and snappy but cohesive and logical. he's great at arguing and trying to get his points across so they are understood. as scum, it's far more about manipulation and making others *feel* the way he wants them to. he will act like he is trying to work through the argument with you, make a show of trying to "understand you". What's funny to me is that he always looks more town as scum than he does as town, and I'm definitely getting that feeling here - manipulative in completely "wolf in sheep's clothing" kind of way.

I'd rather resolve ETL through means other than a d1 lynch.

i.e. NK - you know exactly how i respond to being wagoned, and you know exactly how fucking bad it is for scum.

I've always been vaguely amused by how easy it is to manipulate from either side as scum.

That's not subtle gloating at all. /s

ETL- I'm concerned that because I have no solid scumreads the scum are in the strong players like ETL. Also, nobody pushed me for defending her over the wisdom thing, which miiiiight mean she's scum.

this makes me feel like i'm being slapped in the face with a floppy dick. weak, sthar. come at me or dont bother.

whenever you pull the kind of shit you pulled re: polar bears it makes me want to forget about any town read i ever had on you, because i know you can do a hell of a lot better than that whereas i know you tend to act deliberately obstructionist a lot when you're scum.

I'm really glad you are seeing/feeling the same thing I am re: ms. do you/can you see ms/sthar team here?

1020 is a perfect example of prime sthar manipulation.

/ 1025

will return in a bit. have work to do.

consider my vote on sthar8 for the moment but i would like to finish reading the rest of the thread, and avoid quickhammer if something changes.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

so, I am really sorry everyone - especially to my friends who joined because I did - but I just have way too much going on right now to even think about focusing here. I just can't do it.

AP - I'm sorry, but I will need to be replaced. I will help you find a replacement.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

AP if you're having trouble finding a replacement by tonight, I'll keep going.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

so scum wont fucking shoot me night 1 so i could get a result out day 2??

read the scum PT. I was gonna shoot you N1 regardless

[EspeciallyTheLies]

speaking of...

AP did you release scum PT?

i wanna see how TSO picked it up.

i apologize to everyone who may have joined to play with me. i'm going through a really rough patch in my life right now and i didn't have the time to devote to the game.

also... wisdom wasn't "right". i have access to multiple dead threads. in any case, he should not have said anything, he should not have posted a screen shot, he should have notified the mod and admin of the issue, and replaced out immediately. list mods need to be informed of how he handled it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

i dunno what is

[EspeciallyTheLies]

it looks like ice age adn thaw of the poles

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also I really did enjoy designing and running this game!

I thought the game panned out pretty interestingly even if not much of the setup specific interactions came into effect.

If anyone has suggestions for a game to run in the future, I'd be happy to hear them. Im thinking about coming up with another micro shortly depending on the Q size.

ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

srs question. is our avatar annoying/offputting?

no. i like it.

i like you.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

just to you, so i could care less. you weren't respecting me to begin with

Uh.. no. It was cheating.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

in order to gain an unfair advantage.

Once again, I never intended to have an unfair advantage, so this is wrong.

Intention is pointless when your actions in response were absolutely unethical.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

"I never intended to kill her, just rough her up a little bit."

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I seriously can't even believe you are still actually arguing this. It's a dead point. You're wrong. You should have been temp-banned. Period.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Nope ETL, only you and your friends think so. I am a completely ethical person and I have proven it in similar circumstances over and over. Here I just handled it wrongly, that was all.

lol ok. whatever helps you sleep at night. I know the truth.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And for the record, let me say this again very clearly -

Wisdom, do not sign up for any games I'm in.