Micro 530: Auction Mafia II Final!

[HellBringer]

Evening all,

VOTE: Hellbringer

Scum confirmed!

@Lucky - Nice, 4 items this time! ^^

Someone wants my attention.

Don't pick on the newb.

I don't like that first post without a RVS vote.
VOTE: Flubbernugget

[HellBringer]

Sorry to break your circle jerk but we can actually talk about the game.

I believe it would be beneficial for us to coordinate bidding. We have an advantage over the scum because we have a larger player pool which translates to more funds. The only role I could specifically see them wanting today is the tracker (As that the role cop will do nothing to help us determine alignment). However we could use that role to identify a player who is attempting to circumvent bid coordination.

And fuck your RVS. I never understood why thats a thing. You can nail down scum D1 no problem if you actually play. At best that troll shit is funny. At worst it prevents coordination and content that could generate reads for players that are actually scum hunting. I would like to see players drop this nonsense and start the day off right.

[HellBringer]

The difference between our posts is mine was an effective poke to adjust the play level and content. Yours is just a smart ass thing to say : )

I believe we should ensure some players set aside 100% of their funds so when needed they can snipe a role we specifically want or do not want the scum to have. This gives us the advantage (with some conformable role feedback) of knowing exactly who has the ability as well as giving us the chance to look at how it was used and how that action could reflect alignment. An additional advantage of this will be giving TPR's something to play off making it harder for scum to play effectively. This is particularly useful if our mafia block is inexperienced.

We could also attempt to keep bids low. If we do this effectively it means that we keep more money in the town holding that advantage.

Another plan could be to publicly declare all bids but that can backfire somewhat having every TPR known to the scum. I would not care too much for this

[HellBringer]

How do you go about finding scum in the beginning of a game with nothing to base anything off of... teach us

Sure-

The fact that the mafia have to fake scum hunt and the rest of the players do not creates a gap in the scum players ability to judge how certain they should be on their reads.
For a townie its simple- You read a player and your conclusion is honest and based off that information
For a scum its hard- They already know who the scum is so they instead poke things they believe they can read as scummy and have to feign their amount of certainty on their read.

There are other methods but this is one I believe is very effective. I can give examples of it working as well as references where the technique has been debated but regardless- You can effectively scum hunt D1 if you get the players to actually contribute and shake that troll fluff nonsense.

[HellBringer]

I'm all for it, but you have to get players to talk when there's nothing to talk about. That's why the RVS exists, to create something to talk about.

I agree. But this is pretty much how I go about that. Present ideas and people react to them. In the process of talking about town coordination content is generated that allows us to read players. For example Vedith just poked that last game a scum player presented a similar idea to what I am saying. From my talking about plans he poked at my alignment based on what I said. In return I can consider how he poked at it and what it says about him.

Content creates itself just from debating coordinated action. Then interactions come from this content and can be looked at. All in all everything works itself out as long as the town gets behind the idea of pushing against troll fluff. It also puts scum in a position that they have to either lurk or contribute. These are all good things for the town

[HellBringer]

I say we organize who bids on what items and how much, we can do this better than last iteration of game.
Town put bids as high as 50 but not higher, preferably stick to one item.

If scum want to win, they will have to bid 51 and then we can win all items from then on.

[HellBringer]

Except I fire, will fix the problems in last time!!

[HellBringer]

Wait, who suggested it last time, was it scum or town? I think it was Red, right?

He was actually town. Why did you assume that he was scum and that is what I said?

I think its pretty global that Red=Scum, Green=Town in the majority of setups. These quotes speak for themselves

Although just to humor you I saw your comments as pushing against my proposed idea. In line with the other comments it just makes sense that you were insinuating it would be a scum driven plan. I am a little curious about you now. Some of your comments seem out of place. As if you are floating on the edge of looking like you are contributing while staying vague enough to back track. Nobody can call it a slip if you float in that grey area of neither outright supporting or opposing a plan right?

[HellBringer]

And you clearly didn't read the first game... correct?

Yes. I have not read it

And you don't think scum would want roleblocker? Cause that's clearly the only logical scum bid right thurr

I disagree. It seems theres 2 roles that could peek the scum player. Getting the RB would be less effective than getting the peek role itself because once they have the action they would have to be

lucky

enough to target a player that both bought the peek and was attempting to use it. Because of this it is a much less effective counter. And as a town tool the RB is less effective than the investigative ability. As scum I love preforming no kill. Most players loose their minds and if there was 1 RB everyone immediately hard pushes on the player (Assuming your standard lobby is full of IIoA players). Reguardless I believe scums strongest move is to lock down invest roles opposed to attempting to counter them at night.

Role cop doesnt help us determine alignment if the result is that person gets a night kill? Hmm... interesting. Your post is littered with incorrectness. Unless I'm confused about what you're saying

I am use to Roles, Movements and Alignments being 3 separate things. But it seems that roles are really alignments in this game and the actions purchased do not change your role. When I posted that earlier I thought actions altered your role and your alignment would not be detected by a role cop so I kind of saw the role cop ability as moderately useless.

[HellBringer]

You really should look into the last game. It will give you a clearer understanding.

I plan on it. But not for a while. I think this is a lobby full of players who played the last game together. This means if scum is good they will play off players impressions from the last game. I will keep a perspective free of that for a while. Probably N2 or D3 I will go through it and re-read the game. Forgive my ignorance for a day or two : )

[HellBringer]

I am not sure why that word is orange btw. It should not be.

[HellBringer]

Lucky

- In my post 54 mid way through.
Maybe its just some weird advertising add on in my browser or something if you can not see it.

[HellBringer]

Wait, it's not in mine or the others. lucky must have changed it? XD

Thats pretty funny if he did. I can not imagine accidentally changing the color on one word.

Well orknight has 2 votes, we could talk about that.

What sticks out to you about that specifically in regards to the 3 players?

[HellBringer]

@mod: does role cop see if a player is performing a night kill?

[HellBringer]

So yeah, that role is less useful. Good for late game claims though.

That role is completely useless.not just "less" useful.

[HellBringer]

I agree with fire. Whoever gets it should hang on to it.. It is effectively worthless D1 and not really useful later. Role abilities do not give us anything to suggest alignment.

[HellBringer]

I agree with fire. Whoever gets it should hang on to it.. It is effectively worthless D1 and not really useful later. Role abilities do not give us anything to suggest alignment.

Player List

H. Role powers last during the following night phase and forfeited at the beginning of the next day phase. Unless specified otherwise.

You can't hold on to it. you buy it you have to use it N1 or lose it.

So it is totally worthless then.

[HellBringer]

No, it's not totally worthless. Just not great.

Are you trying to get town players to waste their money on that??

[HellBringer]

Well all alone just threw a vote on him and left, he hasn't said a word in this game that wasn't in vote tags. Other than that, Lane's vote is the first and thus far only serious vote.

Then again there's 3 posters who have posted minimal content and a vote (Ricastle, Ork himself, and Alone), plus Tetaes who hasn't posted at all. Alone is only notable in that he's on the biggest wagon right now. So maybe the serious vote is the only notable thing at the moment.

I am probably going to kill you tonight

[HellBringer]

@Vedith-
How would you use each role if you were scum?

[HellBringer]

@Vedith-
How would you use each role if you were scum?

What are you on about?
Scum would only want RB and Tracker out of the list to ensure a kill and no results.

As a cop - If I saw RB and Tracker on someone for example I would assume scum over town.
Cop going to scum - To find out if a certain person has money or not. If they know that Mr X spent $40 on an a role, that means that they can rule them from their list to kill next.

Im asking for your reasoning on how you would use the ability's as scum. Which players would you target and why?

[HellBringer]

Well all alone just threw a vote on him and left, he hasn't said a word in this game that wasn't in vote tags. Other than that, Lane's vote is the first and thus far only serious vote.

Then again there's 3 posters who have posted minimal content and a vote (Ricastle, Ork himself, and Alone), plus Tetaes who hasn't posted at all. Alone is only notable in that he's on the biggest wagon right now. So maybe the serious vote is the only notable thing at the moment.

I am probably going to kill you tonight

Do I even need to point out what is wrong with this reply?

Nope. You just need to make your peace with God : )

[HellBringer]

I find it odd that vedith is thinking both the tracker and role blocker will definitely be going to scum, especially tracker which I would think is heavily town favored item.

[HellBringer]

I'm not in scum mind set so I can't answer that.

And when did I say that they would definitely go to scum? This is another one of your intentional misinterpretations.

FB - Come and make your Other body look less scummy please because he is setting off the bells.

We share same role Vedith, if he is scum, I am scum.
Besides you always scum read me, I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by appealing to me.

Helz thinks you look odd, I tend to agree.

-Fire

[HellBringer]

Okay, what makes you think that? Without claiming that I said something other than I have.

To clarify, looking scummy and actually being scummy it two different things.

I would say scum FB though if you are the one who did 82 - Confirm if this was you or not?

That was indeed me.

[HellBringer]

#7- Troll vote
#18- Fluff (Shows he is paying attention to players and potentially reading into meta)
#28- Pushing Orc for a contribution, Obvious logic on roles
#29- Pokes at the vote count
#41- Making assumptions on my meta, References last game
#42- Push against obvious shit plan
#43- More pushing against obvious shit plan- Lots of bidding for obvious town cred.
#48- Semi trap, Pushing against me
#49- Referances last game
#53- Pushing me to read last game
#57- Fluff
#60- Fluff
#61- Fluff
#64- Fluff
#66- Suggests role cop is not a good role
#73- Insinuates it has some value
#77- Slight slip, He either bid on it and couldn’t remember if he voiced as much to the town or he considered saying he would bid on it but did not. Either reflects some level of deception which is out of place.
#78- States the obvious logic on scum targets. I find this particularly interesting- There is nothing personal or transparent about it. Its giving the obvious level of information everybody already knows while hiding his perspective. This lack of transparency..
#83- Calls himself town and refuses to give his perspective from a scum PoV. I strongly believe that scum do not like to give thoughts from a scum point of view. It is mainly because they have to hide this perspective from the town. I would expect a town player to be more transparent and not so mindful of how others read him. I can not imagine any town being unable to think from a scum perspective. This is a pretty damn big tell.
#86- Clarifies who posted what

All in all I see a pointed effort to avoid releasing specific information while attempting to get read as town. I would like to push for a pressure vote at this point.

@Vedith- Why are you so unwilling to express yourself from a scum PoV?

VOTE: Vedith

[HellBringer]

If I have looked so scummy why don't you point out what I have said that could come from a scum perspective and most importantly "Why"

I saw your post 83 as a hard dodge. And I bereave the reason is because you are scum and did not want to reveal this side of your thinking. You could ask me right now what I would do as scum and I would have no problem saying quite a bit. This is because I am constantly thinking of what scum may do so I can counter it and this is something I do not believe you are doing at all because your mafia.

[HellBringer]

Random.org may not be the worst way to pick a kill but I could not imagine using it to push a lynch.

The idea is to determine what level someone is playing at. Then figure out what level the scum is playing at and match them up. For example- If I were scum today I would bid on nothing. And tonight I would do nothing. That way all ability's are useless, town looses money, and some poor asshole who got roleblocked would get pressured by the town the next day and make a great misslynch target. From our conversations I would expect that if I had a night chat with you that you would be totally against a no kill. But these scum actions have tells that can help identify the scum's slot. This is why the information is not useless at all. Not even a little bit.

Mafia at its heart is a game of deception. Theres an unfortunate amount of players who never see past IIoA and miss the real beauty in the game. But back to my FoS on you intentionally dodging questions with a decent reason to do so if scum aligned looks bad.

[HellBringer]

I would be willing to start claiming my posts as I post them if it helps.

[HellBringer]

Firebringer here- I do some cross-dressing on the weekends

[HellBringer]

For a start, asking what I think scum will do it better than wgat I would do as scum.
Still, what you do as scum is different. You said that it's for you to counter. Now... I can't see anyone else not killing, it's a waste of a kill and its too messy. So we go into day 2 with a kill and 9 possible outcomes that were put onto the table (assume you are consistent with asking this question). 1 of the ideas provided was used by scum. Where do you go with that? As you wouldn't be countering all 9 outcomes, right? It's left no where and you counter tactic actually helped the scum.

There's a very strong reason why only you would go with that plan - the risk of you getting RB or your partner is high enough to not make it valid. There is also a BP so that would have to be taken into consideration. Just means that it's shakey all over.
Again - when there is a kill, what will that tell you?

Depends on the player killed. I would rather debate this kind of thing after the game as that talking too much about it now just coaches the scum to avoid being read. Or is that what you had in mind?

[HellBringer]

I'm just looking on the surface here, I'll dig deeper into Hell's and Ved's argument.

I hope you do. I would love to see other players thoughts on the matter.

[HellBringer]

Just noticed the day is 10 fucking days long. Jesus titty fucking christ that is a ton of time. I now understand why the players on this site play 20 games at a time.. I am kind of astounded.. Who's life is THAT busy. Lol..

[HellBringer]

If town can not win with days that long I will eat my hat. That is such a massive amount of time to coordinate and share reads I am shocked scum ever wins.

[HellBringer]

I would like to strongly discourage any early hammer regardless of how sure you are the player is scum. If I said more about that it would be counter-productive but use restraint people. With that amount of time we can do an ungodly amount. If players are actually willing to play, contribute reads with reasoning, and pressure I just do not see any way we can loose this. Hell. We can probably find all the scum D1 reguardless of everyone's skill level. Just play and be honest and the deception will be stupid obvious in a hurry.

[HellBringer]

@Ricastle What about those posts do you find scummy? Quoting is great and all but an FoS without reasoning is pretty worthless in every way.

[HellBringer]

Defensive justification posts and contradictions all in one post. What more could you ask for?

@AA- Why don't you like the Vedith push?

[HellBringer]

On an unrelated topic- Your avatar makes me cry on the inside

[HellBringer]

I love anon accounts because most players are dumb enough to look at their role card before grabbing an avatar- That is no the case here so avatars mean nothing. But Always Alone with that avatar paints a perfect picture with its own sense of beauty. Just for some fluff I love my name as that it fits my and fires play style and I would rock the fuck out of that handle if I was a solo account. But my and your avatar is nothing of consequence.

And its not the size that matters. Its how you use it (Or so people with small dicks would say) ; )

[HellBringer]

Not gona happen. I really do not see what it could possibly matter anyways. Sure it will reflect what plays worked and did not work but I don't see that relating to anything I am doing right now.

[HellBringer]

And I like the level of participation. If anything I wouldn't mind if we stepped it up. It makes it easier to tell players apart and harder for some scum to really maneuver when there is lots of content on the table.

[HellBringer]

So I present a shit town plan and follow it up with a shit FoS in your opinion but you are willing to follow it so you can lynch me tomorrow if I am wrong? How very townie of you.

But like I said before I can provide examples if you really think its that big of a thing. Im really not that great of a player but I put a lot of value and effort in D1 because I see it as the biggest challenge and the most fun. I can throw some reading material at you that you would probably love if you are interested on the subject. Its from proven players that actually know what they are doing (as opposed to my blundering play style that entertains the shit out of me)

[HellBringer]

I looked through the rules and saw nothing against it so I am going to post this link
http://www.debate.org/debates/Mafia-Deb ... s-On-D1/1/

I highly recommend reading it. I can not imagine any player not becoming better from reading it. For people that play the game seriously its gold.

[HellBringer]

@Lane- What makes you town read Vedith?

[HellBringer]

That answer makes me sad

[HellBringer]

I am saying that it is much harder to lie about that. It means trying to figure out how another player would read a town player thinking about how scum would behave. That shit is complicated and uncomfortable for scum to do unless they are some kind of pathological type. I believe its a question any scum player would want to avoid and has a nice potential for catching a slip.

[HellBringer]

Saying you will not give a read and saying you are incapable of doing so are 2 very different things.

[HellBringer]

Helz here, I have some free-time while I am trying out dresses.

Whats going on guys?

[HellBringer]

I would like to hear some thoughts on the less active people here:
Flubbernugget, OrcKnight and Tates, thoughts so far?
Reads?

How was your day?

[HellBringer]

If I have looked so scummy why don't you point out what I have said that could come from a scum perspective and most importantly "Why"

I saw your post 83 as a hard dodge. And I bereave the reason is because you are scum and did not want to reveal this side of your thinking. You could ask me right now what I would do as scum and I would have no problem saying quite a bit. This is because I am constantly thinking of what scum may do so I can counter it and this is something I do not believe you are doing at all because your mafia.

No no no that's not how this works

If you asked me what scum was going to do and why I would stall out too because of wifom and poor setup cracking skills

You're scumreading someone because they can't scumhunt the same way you do

It has nothing to do with his scum hunting. It has to do with him saying that he can not even attempt to consider what scum would do. As I sad before there is a huge difference in saying that you are unwilling to do something vs unable. Im not a basketball coach and I really know fuck all about the sport (Because its AIDS and I hate the players) but I could still make a guess at when the coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers is going to put Lebron James in the game.

I am saying that it is much harder to lie about that. It means trying to figure out how another player would read a town player thinking about how scum would behave. That shit is complicated and uncomfortable for scum to do unless they are some kind of pathological type. I believe its a question any scum player would want to avoid and has a nice potential for catching a slip.

[HellBringer]

Yeah I haven't been on sitewide.

All I read from your post was "I'm defending my scum partner hell here". Be sure to let me know if I read it wrong though.

Vedith, I find your posts so funny.

[HellBringer]

I was originally going to vote for vedith but the scum reads comes down to too much theory posting and the same thing can be said of Hellbringer, and scum reading one slot while "feeling" the other as town doesn't sit right

This is what I said in response to Vedith, it doesn't make sense to town read a slot and scum read same slot because it is being played by two people.

So, Flubber if you are not going to vote Vedith. Who are you scum reading?

[HellBringer]

Remember that time I was talking about how scum do not know how to gauge the certainty of their reads because their stated 'read alignment' is not based on a read but rather certainty because they are scum? Right there might be a fine example of such a slip. Not that its damning in itself but pair it with his 100% certainty that Vedith is 'scum' and its not hard to build a case.

[HellBringer]

Errr.. I mean.. Ignore that. Im like, Not here and shit. Because 'reasons' : P

[HellBringer]

HellBringer I'd appreciate it if you signed off with each head of the hydra.

Sure thing

(Fire here, I have been thinking about getting booty augmentation and taking a twerking class)

[HellBringer]

Hey runner what you tink of these two leading 'trains'?

I don't quite like the one on All Alone, I have played with the guy before and he doesn't seem to be playing any different from when he is town in this game so far.

[HellBringer]

lane is a little less aggro than usual for him though, I guess nobody is really pushing his buttons though.

[HellBringer]

Also, Vedith's case of 'Hey, I didn't exactly said that!' is really stupid.

Just to confirm, saying something in a different term and actually saying something completely different is not the same.

This is pretty funny. I'm not sure if he was saying it as a joke or not but it really did make me laugh

Firebringer here, Just gweedo spiked my hair

[HellBringer]

I am kind of in the middle of something but I will fill in a few blanks. I very intentionally dropped my activity for a few reasons. Its nice to see who pushes for content and who is content to float.. Quite a few times I had to stop myself from posting in the last few days. I will say that I do not care if days are 30 days long,

Do not end them early

. Every moment of day chat is an opportunity we need to take advantage of. I would encourage all town members to remind the player base regularly that Vedith is at L1.

Pepto looks like shit to me as well but only a little worse than Ricastle (Who is either not giving a fuck, playing at a low level and projecting he is not, or off base) If we end up lynching Vedith one of these two will probably become a larger focus for me depending on the flip. If we do not I will probably iso them both just because we have such an epic amount of time and- 'why the fuck not'. Either way I feel like my time will be well spent looking at them.

If the player base is willing I would like each player to post a read wall with reasoning. I find that sort of thing a very nice tool in the late game so long as it is done each day near the end of the day regardless of the players alignment who is posting it. Naturally I will give my own reads before the days end (With much less gambits) although my LW will be the the only thing that discloses all the nonsense I was up to : )

[HellBringer]

I have been talking to my other head about this game.
We are both in agreement that Vedith is likely town in this game.

So we are going to move our vote to Peptobisbal who actually looks scummy.
My personal thoughts are very much aligned with All Alone on this too.

VOTE: Pepobislawl

[HellBringer]

243 reads like scum reaching for any reason to restart a dying counterwagon

I heavily agree with this.

It feels like every game I play with All Alone we are always on same page on a lot of stuff.
It is sometimes weird.

-Firebringer

[HellBringer]

Everyone has submitted bids right?
Cause I have, and I definitely think Pepto should be the lynch today.
I haven't talked to my other head about this game for a few days, but I think he wanted to use all the time to chat.

I think we don't have much to chat about at the moment, so I disagree with him on this.

-Firebringer

[HellBringer]

I am comfortable enough with a pepto lynch. My other head is as well. I have to admit that I screwed up playing multiple games at once. I would have liked to dedicate much more attention to this game than I have in the past few days. Tonight is a beer kinda night but tomorrow morning I will try to get my shit together and get some decent ISO's done. I do not like to go for lynches without a hard read

[HellBringer]

Why not take a few moments and make a quality post as opposed to just saying your content is lacking and it going to be the frame for a misslynch?

[HellBringer]

I believe he just admitted to being mafia.

-fire

[HellBringer]

Well if he was town, I would hope he give his reads or something useful instead of just going "Damn I got lynched, that could have gone better"

Where is Lucky2u when you need that flip and you are horrible at waiting!!!!

-Firebringer