Mini 2074: Madness at Port Arthur (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

[Irrelephant11]

Persivul you town?

[Irrelephant11]

Ye
Gonna lovktown you for now because I really do struggle to read you and randomness is on my side
Nobody touch Persivul he’s our D1 IC

[Irrelephant11]

Yoooooo.
Something that maybe needs to be said: We are a 5-people hydra, and we don't plan on signing our actual usernames, and use magical girl code names instead, hopefully that won't be a problem. We're cool though, I promise. Also It's not exactly hard to find who the five of us are.

Anyway, I believe the only person I played with before is Chara, so, hello hello to people, this is Cure March. I'll leave the RVS to the other girls.

- March

WOW I’m not sure how I missed the 5 headed hydra in signups
That’ll... be a thing

[Irrelephant11]

Persivul come vote skitter
It’s almost a real wagon and your vote will help it cross that special threshold

[Irrelephant11]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

Man what a boring vote
Not only is it on obvtown but you’re super missing out on a quality wagon over here!!
Stop having FOMO and start joining the best RVS wagon!

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

Oops this should have been a PM huh
Well whatever functionally I’ll probably still make time to show up all week tbh

[Irrelephant11]

But but but insomnia you forgot to vote skitter instead!

[Irrelephant11]

38. There are two Jailkeepers in this setup. The first time they both target each other, they are both protected. The second and subsequent times, they are both roleblocked and not protected.

This is even more interesting imo
Suggests claiming jail keeper will be useful at some point though maybe not d1

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

Oops this should have been a PM huh
Well whatever functionally I’ll probably still make time to show up all week tbh

The first post pinged me as self-conscious, but first post so whatever.

Talking about it AGAIN so soon...pretty sus.

It was a sort-of apology to funkybike because you pointed out something from a mod post so I read through all the words of the mod posts and i noticed the rule about PMing the mod if you’re v/la which is already done wrong
I’m also just very bored and posting anything that comes to mind
But yeah I mean if someone has to be scum on the first page I’m definitely a top 3 candidate (after Chara and insomnia) so I don’t blame you

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Skitter

That’s a hammer, see you tomorrow

Ooh maybe you ARE town
Way to hammer scum

[Irrelephant11]

Role PMs will be sent shortly. Night 0 begins now; Day 1 will begin after everyone has confirmed and night actions have been taken.

Since I'm sure at least one of you skimmed through the rules: There are two Jailkeepers.

I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

[/b]

That seems to imply both JKs are town, no? thoughts?

- March

Interesting point
I feel it’s reasonable to assume at least one is

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Skitter

That’s a hammer, see you tomorrow

Ooh maybe you ARE town
Way to hammer scum

That’s one scum pinned, who’s next?

I'm looking for a biiig beefy hunk to vote with me wyd

how do u feel about Percy+Elephant together

I feel good about me and Persivul being the same alignment
I’m trying very hard to pocket him so from the outside looking in I find SvS a weird explanation

VOTE: irrelephant this Skitter wagon offends on a personal level.

Ouch but at least you’re joining a wagon
If you L-2 skitter I’ll vote where you ask later (L-2 is currently my goal here, for anyone wondering)

mmmmmmmmy only idea of Percy comes from replacing in for him in Zulfy's game. I also expected him to immediately shush and table the role-fishing Town JK discussion because of his "by the book" playstyle that Vedith described. Percy in post 23 should have voted elephant since he is the type to hop on players like skitter for pressure in the first place anyway I also got a bad feeling from elephant's first few posts in the same way that I did on Flavor Leaf in that game.

Not the first time I’ve been compared to Flavor Leaf but it’s weird every time!!

Initially as I read p1 I had the same thought process as Percy had in 23, elephant felt self-conscious in the two VLA posts. In addition a player who's experienced enough to be comfortable with writing the underlined thoughts below!!! vv

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

VOTE: skitter

@mod I’m on v/la this week

I should maybe do the v/la tags huh

Oops this should have been a PM huh
Well whatever functionally I’ll probably still make time to show up all week tbh

The first post pinged me as self-conscious, but first post so whatever.

Talking about it AGAIN so soon...pretty sus.

It was a sort-of apology to funkybike because you pointed out something from a mod post so I read through all the words of the mod posts and i noticed the rule about PMing the mod if you’re v/la which is already done wrong
I’m also just very bored and posting anything that comes to mind

But yeah I mean if someone has to be scum on the first page I’m definitely a top 3 candidate

(after Chara and insomnia) so I don’t blame you

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me. If elephant is an experienced player they should be ignoring that thread of convo completely until absolutely necessary.

Show me where I “encourage early role discussion”
I would suggest that my few comments were directed toward bringing that conversation to a quick end, having said what needed to be said

[Irrelephant11]

I didn't see any rolefishing. That was setup spec, which in a semi-open is fair game according to the book.

My top of the head thoughts on it: JKs are town. At some point they can claim and thereby conftown themselves, as a fake claim would presumably be CC'd. PLUS, they can protect each other that night. If they can avoid being NK'd or run up and forced to claim, they should probably claim a day before potential lylo.

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me.

I get that if someone does nothing but setup spec it's scummy, but aside from that - what do you have against it?

Site meta lately is premature ejaclaimation. People can't keep their mouths shut. If proper use of known roles is to wait until later before claiming, pointing that out seems appropriate.

like... in my head this feels obvious and not worth talking about lmao. what I have against it is competent scum potentially combing through conversations related to this topic to Jailkeeper-hunt. Is my point clear yet let us join hands.

Your point is clear. Is the value in pointing out the obvious so there is not room to speculate wildly not also clear?

wtf it’s page 3 already

Not the towniest entrance, I agree with Smile

VOTE: vote

Is there a player named vote
No there’s not
What is this

Hi Im town

You and tris better start proving it, even if you are town, claiming it doesn’t excuse you from game solving.

Tris the towny one for being original when he posted it imo

[Irrelephant11]

So sorry for the misgender tris!
Chara why do you townread me

[Irrelephant11]

Also I lightly townread the hydra

[Irrelephant11]

I think I can read you fairly well when I’m not lazy about it
e.g. I townread your tone *always* but am improving over time at my ability to search for your motivations

[Irrelephant11]

The way the jail keepers can protect each other is also town-indicative for the roles imo
If nothing else I doubt the JKs are mafia - though the OP does mention the possibility of 3p’s

[Irrelephant11]

I think I can read you fairly well when I’m not lazy about it
e.g. I townread your tone *always* but am improving over time at my ability to search for your motivations

got it.
and i'm guessing that you're trying to see if u can rattle an ai response out of me rn?

No I’m trying to make as many people as I can vote you as a roundabout way of catching scum!you by forcing your scumpartners to play with a forced early wagon on you that actually nearly approaches a lynch
Then when I flip your theoretical partners I’ll ideally have a clue to stop townreading you (which is my tendency if I’m lazy, which I sometimes am)
Alternatively I was kinda hoping a meme wagon would form on you that would semi-spew you town to make reading you easier but that didn’t happen which I think is probably NAI for you

But feel free to rattle

[Irrelephant11]

ok pretty confident on town!irrel i think
and that is ... an interesting approach to trying to read me that i don't think anyone has ever tried before and i'm pretty interested in seeing how you'll apply it.

and yeah idk if meme wagons form on me? heck even actual wagons don't form on me that often really at this point

Yeah it’s kinda contingent on your partners being worse at being scum than you > therefore making them play around you before you show up is a good idea in the long run
But maybe your partners are good at scum too or maybe you’re town or maybe this wasn’t that effective; I think only time will tell it was just an idea I had on page 1

[Irrelephant11]

I’m losing interest in lynching Chara/Persivul/Smile today
I’m gaining interest in lynching Shiidaji/Clearly/Fuscezu
VOTE: Shiidaji

[Irrelephant11]

That makes two of us. However this is a different setting, I'm one of the strongest players she had to face off against and I'd argue most if not all present are better players than me. I don't expect her to panic but I also don't expect her to be so dismissive of early scumreads on her slot. It's not a strong read but my initial impression.

I'm always going to default to town side on slots that try to transition out of rvs unless it's generating social reads, which I didn't get from this game. Plus Shiidaji proposing the persivul/irrel team read townie to me because it's a nontown statement if that makes sense.

What I mean is it's considered antitown to make assumptions around preflip associations and I think Shiidaji is cognizant of that. So at best it's an attention grabbing statement that scum generally avoid. Also it encourages town to consider new perspectives which opens the door for scumhunting even if it isn't directly done by him. I dont know if that was really the intention but that doesn't change my mind all too much.

If you’re town I think you’re wrong in townreading Shiidaji for early play
If you’re scum, though, interestingly I think you’re spewing Shiidaji town a little bit here
I guess all I’m saying here is scum!RCE makes me think town!Shii but town!RCE doesn’t affect my Shii read

[Irrelephant11]

today i townishly slept through all my alarms, townishly rushed to work, put in a good full towny day, townily went to the gym afterward and then returned home where I am now. reading the thread and striving to do so with the same townish zeal I put into everything else I did today

Totes locktown
Actually though I have basically no read aside from a slight tonal townread here

[Irrelephant11]

With that said I'm on the other side of the fence from both of you since I think CC is probably town on demeanor and I kind of like shiidaji.

Talk to me more about CC “town on demeanor” and explain why it’s more likely than “newbscum playing the part of cheerful-newb”

[Irrelephant11]

With that said I'm on the other side of the fence from both of you since I think CC is probably town on demeanor and I kind of like shiidaji.

Talk to me more about CC “town on demeanor” and explain why it’s more likely than “newbscum playing the part of cheerful-newb”

Because it was indifferent newb. Which is imo bolder and less likely from someone that may feel outclassed.

Show me which posts give you “indifferent” vibes

Also my point about Shiidaji is not just that I disagree with you about your read on Shii (I don’t feel especially strongly about Shii yet anyway), just that your reasons for townreading Shii are bad imo

[Irrelephant11]

skitter did town things and i decided i could rest instead.

tell me more

[Irrelephant11]

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

What's the difference between fuscezu and me, and irrel and rcenigma here?

I'm more confident on irrel's and rc's

have you explained the rce read? I don't see it

[Irrelephant11]

That makes two of us. However this is a different setting, I'm one of the strongest players she had to face off against and I'd argue most if not all present are better players than me. I don't expect her to panic but I also don't expect her to be so dismissive of early scumreads on her slot. It's not a strong read but my initial impression.

I'm always going to default to town side on slots that try to transition out of rvs unless it's generating social reads, which I didn't get from this game. Plus Shiidaji proposing the persivul/irrel team read townie to me because it's a nontown statement if that makes sense.

What I mean is it's considered antitown to make assumptions around preflip associations and I think Shiidaji is cognizant of that. So at best it's an attention grabbing statement that scum generally avoid. Also it encourages town to consider new perspectives which opens the door for scumhunting even if it isn't directly done by him. I dont know if that was really the intention but that doesn't change my mind all too much.

So if I understand correctly, your townread on shiidaji is because they did something anti-town and you think highly enough of shiidaji to expect that only town!shii would be so blatantly anti-town + by being bad it lets other people scumhunt better (which I don't agree with btw)

My response is: anti-town things are done by scum sometimes. Duh?

So I'm not really seeing the towncase

[Irrelephant11]

why did the game stall? scum apparently feel comfy

Let's go.... here VOTE: chara

[Irrelephant11]

why did the game stall?

well I guess this is a bit of a subjective call, maybe this game is just a bit slower
But it definitely feels like the stakes have gone down since the first few pages when takes were spicy and play felt exciting so I'm gonna ride this subjective take onto a chara wagon
join me!

[Irrelephant11]

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

What's the difference between fuscezu and me, and irrel and rcenigma here?

awkward charisma, interesting contributions. in four words.

Oh I read these as connected

[Irrelephant11]

skitter did town things and i decided i could rest instead.

tell me more

i did. i gave you four more words!

do me a favor and quote me some skitter posts with interesting contributions?

[Irrelephant11]

Why not I'm all about that unnecessary paranoia it's like my default
VOTE: shiidaji

[Irrelephant11]

skitter you should come vote shiidaji

pedit: I reminded myself of why I scumread shiidaji and it's stronger than my (just now remembering that it's finals week) gamestate read

[Irrelephant11]

oh are you not voting shii? yes come join
have we had any vc's idk where people are voting

[Irrelephant11]

Debating theory/outguessing the mod always tends to be a thing in these games. It very rarely works.
The text of the OP regarding the Jailkeepers was intentional; this is

not

a confirmation that both are Town.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Shiidaji (3):

Chara, Irrelephant11, tris

skitter30 (2):

Persivul, insomnia

Irrelephant11 (2):

Shiidaji, RCEnigma

Fuscezu (1):

Smile

Miss Kobayashi Maru (1):

ClearlyClarity

ceejayvinoya (1):

skitter30

ClearlyClarity (1):

Miss Kobayashi Maru

Not Voting (2):

Fuscezu, ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Oh apparently I've just been glossing over the orange posts because they're orange
I redacted a thought here - not because it relates to ongoing games but because I think it'd be more helpful to say after a flip than before any flips
someone remidn me later

pedit: I have no read on skitter yet

[Irrelephant11]

Since my vote on Persivul isn't going anywhere and people don't hop on him for some reason, I'll do this

VOTE: Smile

5 headed hydra and you can't come up with a read and you are so neutral when it comes to giving reads. it feels off. you're like "insomnia is scum because of this, but i can see him being town" , "not feeling cj's posts", plenty of Iioa

I don't see how those sorts of comments are iioa. Can you explain that to me?
They're not very strong comments, I agree, but what about a five-headed hydra being a bit neutral feels off to you? I have a hard time seeing how the slot would be moving strongly in any direction as either alignment
That said my townread there was always weak, I don't really mind the vote

Debating theory/outguessing the mod always tends to be a thing in these games. It very rarely works.
The text of the OP regarding the Jailkeepers was intentional; this is

not

a confirmation that both are Town.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Shiidaji (3):

Chara, Irrelephant11, tris

skitter30 (2):

Persivul, insomnia

Irrelephant11 (2):

Shiidaji, RCEnigma

Fuscezu (1):

Smile

Miss Kobayashi Maru (1):

ClearlyClarity

ceejayvinoya (1):

skitter30

ClearlyClarity (1):

Miss Kobayashi Maru

Not Voting (2):

Fuscezu, ceejayvinoya

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Oh apparently I've just been glossing over the orange posts because they're orange
I redacted a thought here - not because it relates to ongoing games but because I think it'd be more helpful to say after a flip than before any flips
someone remidn me later

pedit: I have no read on skitter yet

so you got no reads off your plan with the fast wagon? thought you were pretty good and you thought you were confident in reading town skitter?

The vote thing was originally meant to be a post-scumflip way of reading skitter (how many scum were on her wagon, did any scum choose me to vote instead of her, etc)
And she hasn't done much I consider strongly indicative of her being town, nor really of being obvscum. So I don't have a read yet
I'm not sure why I should have a strong read this early - do you feel like skitter's alignment is obvious here? You've got posts on this same page saying you don't know how to read her so far

[Irrelephant11]

you said you're pretty good at town reading her

scumslip?
I have a pretty good read rate for skitter, but to be frank I've almost always townread her and the read rate partially comes from the fact that she, like most, is usually town. I am trying new things to make sure she stays on her toes. I have also read a lot of her games/played with her a lot so I like to think I won't be tooooo easily duped by townreading her tone - her tone being something I think is a big contributor to that badge she wears. None of that means that by page 13 I am guaranteed to have a read on her.

[Irrelephant11]

Also, I forgot that this is a god damn hydra because I've never played with one and then I figured why people want them vetoed from their games. It's so hard to keep track of everyone's read and it's weird to see one account having different scum reads and town reads, so that's totally on me

Willing to bet this isn't ever SvS

[Irrelephant11]

lol been there

I've decided to townread you for now, CC. Got any scumreads?

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah why is this game slowwww

[Irrelephant11]

I was about to try to make a PoE but I have to go into a meeting

Hot take: fuscezu is scum
idk if that take is hot it's just something I'm feeling in this moment

[Irrelephant11]

Are you trying to convince me? ...I'm the reason you're voting shiidaji, I thought?
I agree shii's posts are sorta scummy. Pretty sure shii's been absent sitewide though, so idk how AI that is

[Irrelephant11]

Feeling sick. Glad my “hot take” got a conversation moving
Kinda don’t townread the two votes that followed my read, but I also doubt they’re ever s/s
Hopefully I’ll be healthy and clear headed tomorrow

Skitter I’ve only mindmelded with you like 1.5 times this game. Are you scum

[Irrelephant11]

I meant tomorrow irl
Idk about Smile’s meaning of the word
Yes I want to talk to you about things but not right now I’m gonna sleep now

[Irrelephant11]

Alright time to remove some townies from our collective lynchpool
Let's do playerlist order:

ceejayvinoya
Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu
insomnia
Irrelephant11
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji
skitter30
Smile
tris

[Irrelephant11]

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

a pretty meh vote for page 4, not necessarily alignment indicative on its own.

i like them too. it's cute.

Shiidaji: i liked insomnia's entrance and agreed with what he said about both elephant and Percy, two players i'm townreading so far. and he feels good, feels organic.
you feel marginally less good and less organic with the focus you've chosen right now, and i have to echo insomnia's point of you appearing to make judgements based on what you think someone's playstyle should be rather than what it actually is. you can contrast that with what i feel from insomnia with a genuine desire to understand.

it's great to see you as well! i hope we can have a fun game together again. <3

This is an improvement.

UNVOTE:

I think I sort of townread the quick change in mindset? Not sure scum!CJ gets much out of this anyway

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

the only time a vote has hurt my feelings so... deeply.

We always hurt the ones we love

I remember townreading the tone here att. Still kinda do.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

Not sure I see all these reads (fuscezu and RCE being the most surprising at this point in the game imo)
If CJ's town the "ugh" might mean "It doesn't make obvious sense but my gut tells me"
If CJ's scum this post probably contains one if not both of his partners

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

what do u mean by 'dull'?

Their early posts were not interesting.

Which struck me as blending in for some reason.

....
i'm not sure i agree with u that chara's early posts were not interesting

i'm also not sure that that having 'not interesting' posts is indicative of trying to blend in?

refer to the reply I gave to insomnia.

it's not really indicative in the sense of "oh they did this, that must mean this.". But it's a start. Remember it was my rvs vote.

This is probably the scummiest post from CJ so far - taking the time to further this defensive conversation about his own vote, and mischaracterizing his own post in the process (before now he has never insisted the Chara vote was RVS, in fact just the opposite). Meanwhile no other reads get furthered, no scumhunting done here... etc. Enough for a scumlean if I didn't have one before

I think there was something else I meant to respond to, but I lost it.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

Why is rcenigma town?

I like his posts, he makes more sense to me as town.

This looks like s/s but also maybe like s/t if cj's just trying to get on RCE's good side. CJ I would love to see you explain what gave you a strong townread on RCE before post 183.

Ugh I have fuscezu and tris as townleans for some reason.

Maybe chara too.

I like irrel and rcenigma for town

What's the difference between fuscezu and me, and irrel and rcenigma here?

I'm more confident on irrel's and rc's

Again, not furthering any reads or scumhunting, just endlessly explaining his own actions... Yes people are asking him questions, but that shouldn't cut off his ability to ask questions himself.

VOTE: Fuscezu

Another meh vote. Sheeping the read of someone he's said he townreads (me), but also voting someone he says he townleans (fuscezu). Doesn't look like genuine scumhunting from here.


Towniness: ★☆☆☆☆
Out of the PoE? NOPE

[Irrelephant11]

Quick caveat about CJ: I've seen him in the LHF seat before I think. I'd suggest we double check his meta on this before lynching

[Irrelephant11]

hello everyone! nice to see those of you i know.
VOTE: irrelephant

Quoting this here to remind myself to explicitly do the mental work of not townreading Chara's cheery tone. Being happy and making sense are two tools some scum get very far with, and from experience I'd put chara in the list of those who use them as scum.

VOTE: Shiidaji
i feel the exact opposite about his elephant/Percy proposal!

-snip-

Good reason for a vote, and a good vote imo.

So sorry for the misgender tris!
Chara why do you townread me

you're a good player and i have some knowledge of your scumgame. innocent until proven guilty is good for me.
same sort of situation as skitter.

This makes sense to me I guess. Not sure I love that I'm getting a "free pass" because it doesn't make Chara easier to read fmpov but given our past experience it's not out of character.

i could go into it further, but i don't see a reason to start talking about how i think you should be read as scum when i don't need to.

Like yeah I've heard these words from town!Chara before. If scum, Chara is mostly trying to avoid stepping on anyone's toes - I'm not sure they'd be so intensely careful like this. I should glance through our shared scumgame to verify.

I’m losing interest in lynching Chara/Persivul/Smile today
I’m gaining interest in lynching Shiidaji/Clearly/Fuscezu
VOTE: Shiidaji

elephant after my own heart. except for Clearly.

Saying my reads are good with one exception is basically NAI (either we're mindmelding or I'm an easy pick to sheep as scum) but I include it to remember Chara's reads from here forward

though i'm not sure of the scum motivation of ceejay finding a problem with me, then unvoting once the problem had been resolved. the post he quoted was the first one that really held any thought process from me.

Again, giving a lot of room for townreading players, not pouncing on anything.

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

And again. My main concern here is Chara's only showed two scumreads and has townread most other players so far. Not a huge deal, but could be indicative of scum having an easy time townreading town.
I think I'm more inclined to believe they're town so far, though. Scum!Chara is not making it easy for itself to be part of a mislynch this gameday, unless their partners are strong as scum and Chara's confident a mislynch will happen regardless.

i'll never understand the business of saying one head of a hydra is scummy but not the whole hydra. usually that just means it's a personality thing.
and i'm townreading Smile, but that's besides the point.

Chara could you explain this townread?

i don't know if scum Clearly would keep talking about experience anxiety here.

Chara could you explain this townread?

oh, and given another game just ended, i'm more comfortable saying i townread Fuscezu, and i agree with skitter's take that you quoted there.

Chara could you explain this townread?

[Irrelephant11]

Towniness: ★★★½☆
Out of the PoE? Yeah probably, as long as the townreads have good reasoning.

[Irrelephant11]

Anyone around and wanting to participate? This is more fun with a friend

[Irrelephant11]

yeah we can do shiidaji
I was doing list order because I didn't have an order

[Irrelephant11]

you go first on shii

[Irrelephant11]

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

I'm looking for a biiig beefy hunk to vote with me wyd

how do u feel about Percy+Elephant together

tbh I kinda expected someone to partner-read my play with Persivul but only in a shallow sense i.e. "Irrelephant giving himself an excuse to not scumread Persivul right off the bat sure is a convenient scum/scum play... but oh wait, it also draws a lot of early attention to them both... maybe it's not" is the thought process I expected at least one person to have. I originally scumread that shii stopped halfway through this thought process, though rereading more posts I'm not sure I still feel that way...

mmmmmmmmy only idea of Percy comes from replacing in for him in Zulfy's game. I also expected him to immediately shush and table the role-fishing Town JK discussion because of his "by the book" playstyle that Vedith described. Percy in post 23 should have voted elephant since he is the type to hop on players like skitter for pressure in the first place anyway I also got a bad feeling from elephant's first few posts in the same way that I did on Flavor Leaf in that game.

That game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79035
I see now the connection between my play here and FL's play there, actually (he fakeclaimed masons with a scumpartner on page 2 or so). So I'm not as bothered by this as I was originally.

Initially as I read p1 I had the same thought process as Percy had in 23, elephant felt self-conscious in the two VLA posts. In addition a player who's experienced enough to be comfortable with writing the underlined thoughts below!!! vv

-snip-

It was a sort-of apology to funkybike because you pointed out something from a mod post so I read through all the words of the mod posts and i noticed the rule about PMing the mod if you’re v/la which is already done wrong
I’m also just very bored and posting anything that comes to mind

But yeah I mean if someone has to be scum on the first page I’m definitely a top 3 candidate

(after Chara and insomnia) so I don’t blame you

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me. If elephant is an experienced player they should be ignoring that thread of convo completely until absolutely necessary.

This is still my least favorite post from shii. I wish shii hadn't disappeared before answering my question about why my very shallow role speculation was scummy, given I didn't encourage anything that would out anyone really.
but especially the scummy thing was agreeing with Persivul that my v/la comments were self-conscious. I don't think they were (I mean I know for a fact they weren't, but my point is I think it's a bad read) and this sorta reads like "hmm if I can't get Persivul and Irrelephant to look scummy together, maybe I can turn Persivul on Irrel by sheeping Percy?"

As for Percy, it seems like you are casing him based on what you think is his playstyle and he should strictly follow your line of action that you made for him. I don’t know how accurate your reads are based on that, it would certainly take me a lot of games with someone in order to determine how they would usually act.

I'll continue this discussion after Persivul explains why he didn't just vote elephant in 23

Okay so for a second I was gonna give this one to shiidaji with the following thought process:
- shiidaji has seen scum fakeclaim masons and is reminded of that here
-- in that game, shiidaji was a replacement for persivul, so persivul has also seen it
--- shiidaji has the somewhat reasonable expectation that persivul should scumread me for doing the weird thing FL did, even though Persivul knows he himself isn't scum

But post 23 is the one where Persivul scumreads me for being self-conscious.

but on

second

third thought maybe it's still reasonable for shii to expect Persivul to follow up on a scumread with a vote?

-snip-

but still encourages early role discussion felt counterintuitive to me.

I get that if someone does nothing but setup spec it's scummy, but aside from that - what do you have against it?

Site meta lately is premature ejaclaimation. People can't keep their mouths shut. If proper use of known roles is to wait until later before claiming, pointing that out seems appropriate.

like... in my head this feels obvious and not worth talking about lmao. what I have against it is competent scum potentially combing through conversations related to this topic to Jailkeeper-hunt. Is my point clear yet let us join hands.

I did townread this post from shiidaji tonally. "Let us join hands" being actually very towny tonally, the more I think about it. I don't necessarily expect scum to go "I am trying to talk in such a way as to avoid scum understanding, but so that town

will

understand. Lock eyes with me and

get it

, please."

-snip-

I don't really feel Percyscum anymore Chara. It is nice to see you again my friend. Do you feel like insomnia's entrance was natural? I liked post 45 trying to follow up on my thought process.

This post is basically NAI without the followup.

Towniness: ★★★☆☆
Out of the PoE? Depends on replacement

[Irrelephant11]

i wanted to pressure him, but with the disappearance i can't, nor can i discuss with him to see where his head's at.
i also didn't like the elephant case being about the jailkeeper thing because that was one item in an ISO that, at the time, was not just mechanical content.

same
good point

I landed townier than I expected on reread. Gonna move my vote to VOTE: ceejay while I continue my rereading

[Irrelephant11]

Let's do skitter next since I promised skitter some thoughts and questions

[Irrelephant11]

I mean my goal here is to remove townies from the POE so if you have any skitter town points you feel are strong bring those up please

[Irrelephant11]

Spoilers to make this readable:

Spoiler: Some weak thoughts on early posts

kinda think irrel is town?
and maybe gut-town on smile?

Okay so mindmeld on smile here, but I said it first. .5 mindmelds.

-snip-

i kinda feel like the op meant for the jk's to be alignment neutral, but the below kinda slipped/insinuated by mistake taht they're town-aligned (or, at the very least, that the jk's being alive is helpful to town which would imply that they're probably not scum). i'm not sure if we were supposed ot have that info tho

Since I'm sure at least one of you skimmed through the rules: There are two Jailkeepers. I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

I sort of feel like this is a weird thing to speculate and sort of agree.

-snip-

really tho i do think that you've been kinda townie so far. idk what ur scumgame looks like but you have a sufficiently nuanced and town-oriented thought process that i feel is unlikely to come from scum

In retrospect att this was a good read

Spoiler: posts I didn't like

getting gutscum pings on rcenigma

not sure I see enough for this read att, though.

Also, skitter's response to the wagon is very scummy.

not sure scum!tris says this really?

Ah yes I'm remembering now, the previous quote, this quote, and the next on are where I was really like "I don't see what you mean". Anti-mindmeld, because I don't see why scum!anyone wouldn't make this sort of joke post. 0 mindmelds so far.

-snip-

i dont' like this trajectory on chara much at all really

I've said before and will say again I think it's a fine trajectory.

I’m losing interest in lynching Chara/Persivul/Smile today
I’m gaining interest in lynching Shiidaji/Clearly/Fuscezu
VOTE: Shiidaji

why smile? i don't feel like they've said much ai really

i kidna want to vote ceejay actually

So here's the weirdest thing I see in skitter's ISO:

she questions my townread on Smile, who so far she has only gut-townread in agreement with me. feels like skitter "forgot" her townread when she realized it could actually take a mislynch off the table.
otoh maybe she forgot her townread for real.

Spoiler: Summaries of things I really do townread

In retrospect 244 is actually a really accurate description of why CJ's play is scummy.

I am actually quite interested in the mechanics of this game, though.

What's the usual meta for Mini Theme games that have a closed setup?

i'd love to answer but i don't understand the question, sorry

This post feels entirely unnecessary, which Idk what to do with.

252 is #goodposting.

355 - Mindmelding with me re: "insomnia prob isn't scum with smile" (.5 mindmelds for agreeing with me again - it's obviously not as strong a reason to townread skitter when I'm the one who said it first but it's still a reason to scumread skitter because I don't know that her goal as scum is to pocket me in such a roundabout way) and asking Clarity for reads are both towny. @skitter why did you move from CJ to RCE in 355? Felt like your case on CJ was only getting stronger at that point.
Also why gut-town on Fuscezu?

....
i'm voting rce; i said earlier he was pinging me as scum
i said pretty clearly that i'm townreading insomnia; i kinda believe his meta tbh
i don't have a read on clarity rn; that's why i asked her if she had any reads she'd like to share

ngl those questions kinda feel like busywork; like four posts above this one i talked about insomnia and voted rce?

I like this post a lot. .5 mindmelds for asking clarity for reads.

I was about to try to make a PoE but I have to go into a meeting

Hot take: fuscezu is scum
idk if that take is hot it's just something I'm feeling in this moment

Kinda seeing this too actually

i'm not seeing this really; what are you seeing here?

I wasn't really seeing it strongly either, it was 2/3 a reaction test, 1/3 a flash of paranoia. 1 whole mindmeld for disagreeing with Clarity here.

The whole interaction with Fuscezu that ends around 380 is good.

Spoiler: This read progression is good

? y does that make you like irrel?

do either of u have a read on chara?

march i kinda think that you lot might be scum

@skitter there's only a few questions in here

pedit: some good points from Chara re: skitter's play has extraneous stuff that scum!her probably doesn't post.

Total mindmelds: 2 I think
Towniness: ★★★★☆
Out of the PoE? Ye

[Irrelephant11]

Someone convince me why I should vote your top scumread. Give me something an idiot like me can work with.

Vote CJ!

Reasons for:
-Slow gamestate implies scum feel comfortable and/or are mostly absent (CJ fits in the second)
-Has spent 90% of his time itt defending himself
-Has five townreads and is voting one of them
-Has no scumreads

Reasons against:
-Small chance he's low hanging fruit, but if so I don't see scum taking advantage of it, sooo

[Irrelephant11]

I've since noted that my read on Fuscezu was mostly a way to get things moving/reaction test, with a little paranoia. I think CJ's vote (and yours, though probably not both together) looked like scum trying to turn a bad read into a wagon

I would like to hear more from you about why you scumread Fuscezu, though.

[Irrelephant11]

Oh! Well, then instead of voting Fus you should vote CJ!

[Irrelephant11]

I was about to try to make a PoE but I have to go into a meeting

Hot take: fuscezu is scum
idk if that take is hot it's just something I'm feeling in this moment

Kinda seeing this too actually

zzz

VOTE: Fuscezu

Also, as of 231 clarity has done fuckall for content

ClearlyClarity - liked the initiative? kind of green

These votes implied there was more to your Fus scumread, though. What did you mean when you said "kinda seeing this too actually"?

[Irrelephant11]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Chara when you get a chance can you explain what exactly about a recently completed game gives you reason to townread fuscezu?

[Irrelephant11]

ceejayvinoya - null with green garnish
Chara - lightly scum for complete lack of anything
ClearlyClarity - liked the initiative? kind of green
Fuscezu - Devil Snek
insomnia - still weak tr
Irrelephant11 - Hate it, but guttown it. I feel like I shouldnt have to guttown a player like irre
Miss Kobayashi Maru - null. Seems like if they do play they could produce good content
Persivul - percy is never easy to read for me, but id go with nullscum if i had to. When in doubt, burn it out.
RCEnigma - very telling that their biggest post is a setup post about shiinji
Shiidaji - kind of light green? Willing to give their replacement some room.
skitter30 - sneeky breeki player. Dont have a meta and hear their scum game is fire.
Smile - I go back and forth between modest green and light red. Ill wait and see how i feel about them. Helps that March is the main head.
tris - No real read yet.

Disagree on chara - what makes you say this?
what gives ceejay a green garnish?
I have no clue where you're getting expectations of "a player like irre". If you can, please explain what you mean.
Is your read on RCE a scumread?

[Irrelephant11]

I scumread your intro post? I don't even remember it

[Irrelephant11]

wtf it’s page 3 already

Yeah you're definitely more defensive about this than you should be, my read on this post was long gone before you brought it back up

Sometimes scum complain about having to catch up because it's more work to fake towny responses to a lot of posts than it is to just *have* towny responses to lots of posts.
You complained about it being page 3 already, which is slightly scummy. I'm not stuck on it, my read on you (and everyone) is always changing in response to new material.

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: fuscezu

[Irrelephant11]

Mm those aren't bad reasons, actually.

Chara when you get a chance can you explain what exactly about a recently completed game gives you reason to townread fuscezu?

going to be busy until the evening, but you can check my larger posts around the end of Forkbomb mafia regarding Fusco.

right okay, thanks.
VOTE: ceejay

[Irrelephant11]

But I gave you the D1 IC pass Persivul! No need to back off

[Irrelephant11]

ceejayvinoya - null with green garnish
Chara - lightly scum for complete lack of anything
ClearlyClarity - liked the initiative? kind of green
Fuscezu - Devil Snek
insomnia - still weak tr
Irrelephant11 - Hate it, but guttown it. I feel like I shouldnt have to guttown a player like irre
Miss Kobayashi Maru - null. Seems like if they do play they could produce good content
Persivul - percy is never easy to read for me, but id go with nullscum if i had to. When in doubt, burn it out.
RCEnigma - very telling that their biggest post is a setup post about shiinji
Shiidaji - kind of light green? Willing to give their replacement some room.
skitter30 - sneeky breeki player. Dont have a meta and hear their scum game is fire.
Smile - I go back and forth between modest green and light red. Ill wait and see how i feel about them. Helps that March is the main head.
tris - No real read yet.

Disagree on chara - what makes you say this?
what gives ceejay a green garnish?
I have no clue where you're getting expectations of "a player like irre". If you can, please explain what you mean.
Is your read on RCE a scumread?

[Irrelephant11]

what gives ceejay a green garnish?

A desire to not lynch him today. I think a little encouragement would help him.

But like
What that he’s posted is towny
Do you disagree his vote on you is terrible

[Irrelephant11]

For some reason it seems like no one's really expressed a read on me. Does anyone want to give it a shot?

I had a tonal townread on you before now and the fact you’re completely ignored and called it out seems kinda towny
Like probably at least one scum partner would take a mild stance on you by now if you’re scum kind of a thing

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: RCEnigma

[Irrelephant11]

I dont really get why people dont like irrel's posting tbh

Obviously this sounds different coming from me but I agree wholeheartedly
It’s not like this game has extremely scummy lynch candidates rn so my D1 goal is a good PoE (I can provide meta of me doing this at least once before). I obviously didn’t finish since I only had time for four slots but like since when is reading ISO’s and coming away with reads scummy? Like call it NAI busywork if you *really* want me to stay lynchable but my reads changed on two of the four players I’ve reread and I feel I’ve provided good points for why skitter is town, why Shiidaji might actually be town, etc.

I don’t like that fuscezu and RCE are scumreading me for, well, basically just scumhunting and playing the game. Feels like they’re hoping to be townread for the audacity to call one of the townier players scum

[Irrelephant11]

Do you mean your reads changed on Chara and Shiidaji? I don't recall you pushing Chara. Plus the way you phrased the Shiidaji read leaves it open to flip if the replacement looks lynchable.

No, my reads on Skitter (null > very town) and Shiidaji (scum >null) changed.

If Shiidaji is town, I have succeeded already in preventing their mislynch. Nobody is voting there, and I doubt we will end the day lynching there, unless their replacement is extremely scummy.
If Shiidaji is scum, I have not gone so far as to say the slot should never be lynched.
How exactly would you like me to treat a slot I don't know the alignment of who isn't playing? Locktown them?
Your thought here that I'm "keeping the slot lychable" actually looks like TMI about the slot - how do you know the slot is town?

[Irrelephant11]

whoops, didn't finish the post.

@ rce:

and i know that town!you is fully capable of good!posting, and nothing youv'e posted thus far really feels that way to me rn

and yeah i'm starting to see if i can get a wagon going; i'm hoping doing so will provide some interesting insight into the gamestate, which feels kinda ~stagnant~, and if you think that'll make you do ai things, even better

do u think scum is pushing u for your shiidaji read? if so, who in particular do u think is doing this?

Irrel in particular, I haven't gotten anything that tells me he's town. Initially I tried to put it off because I tend to avoid omgus type reads. They tend to be biased.

But things like his player by player reads to cut town out of a Poe is??? I think Fusco is probtown for thinking along the same lines.

So I ask myself why scum would do it:

- looks busy
- gives scum a general idea of who is bussable/mislynchable today/savable today.
- town cred

The problem is I haven't gotten anything out of it, it's basically a culmination of ISOs to point out what he thinks is good or scummy but the analysis isn't there. The questions are more for others to generate the content but irrel posed the questions so he gets the town cred for pushing discussion.

I was around when he started this and is exactly why I avoided engaging with it.

That said I don't think it was a scum theater thing with Chara so they at least aren't together.

I have other general thoughts but I'm still pages behind and my break is up so to be continued or something.

Everything in this post is bull$&!# btw

[Irrelephant11]

MKM where you at
Insomnia you've seemingly gone quiet too

[Irrelephant11]

and CJ
man maybe the whole scumteam just isn't playing

[Irrelephant11]

- gives scum a general idea of who is bussable/mislynchable today/savable today.

How does scum giving their own reads do this?

Through the slots that interact with the reads. Players are going to give their own opinion on what they think is wrong, why X slot isn't actually scummy etc. Etc.

Then they can decide where they can pivot or push. Insomnia wasn't in the game at the time Lycan did this in schadds scumstomp normal but he replaced in towards the end. It's not dissimilar to Lycan's puppetstring approach. I probably wouldn't link the game since it's a cringeread but the mafia pt would give a general idea of what I'm talking about.

The Gist.

Yes good point. If I provide my reads and reasoning you will all be compelled to tell me which townies I am allowed to mislynch, and I will do so with no problem.

Like I'm flattered at the level of manipulation you think I 'm having but so far none of the things you've said I'm aiming for have happened, aside from Chara providing some skitter and shiidaji reads at my request.

If you're going to scumread me for providing content because "oOOooOOooO the rest of us might interact with the content!!!" then I don't know what game you would like me to play. Solitaire?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm sorta wavering on my RCE scumread rn actually because I'm not sure scum go for the "whoever's towniest must be scum" paranoia case when, meanwhile, multiple slots seem to have lurked out of the game (I think town might do this if they're actually experiencing an overwhelming amount of paranoia)
But otoh it's not like his ISO is balanced out by incredibly towny scumhunting and I don't know what else to do with my vote, at least until the lurkers come back/are replaced

[Irrelephant11]

Insomnia is Smile currently your strongest scumread
how do you read RCE rn?

[Irrelephant11]

Well this game certainly just experienced a change in...

Wait for it...

Flavor

[Irrelephant11]

irrel, remind me, do you have a read on tris?

The lightest of townreads, mostly for tone and a little bit for accurately pointing out how the slot was being ignored

irre is kinda scummy.
flavorslot is enh - not happy he placed into a slot that needs content
idk how i feel about rc
tris is townish

Are you gonna case me ever or just try to keep me mislynchable
And what changed since the last time you gave a read on me

[Irrelephant11]

Hi CJ! Ummm talk to me about Clearly Clarity. Shorter ISO: Newbtown or Scum using newbtone for towniness?

As an aside: ngl I'm extremely nervous that Flavor repped in an a very mysterious slot

[Irrelephant11]

^Agreed

If CJ is town (not sure he is but I at least kinda feel like the way the PL is treating him is semi-spewing him town),

I'm not lynching skitter/chara/persivul today,

I've decided to townread smile,


Mmmmm I'm just now realizing I'm just gonna need Flavor Leaf and Brown Eyes to play before I can really narrow down who I'm most interested in lynching

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Clarity

[Irrelephant11]

I think their play so far is kinda like coalition, kinda like forkbomb which I was following along with
I think their reads on you, me, and fuscosco make sense for town!them
The only reason I can think of to scumread them is their high number of townreads in a game where I don’t know that someone uninformed should have that many townreads, but I somewhat believe Chara is playing in the “kill paranoia, hold to townreads where they’re deserved” way they profess to be using.

Oh I also liked their recent moment re:CJ read

[Irrelephant11]

RCE might be scum but also might just be telling the truth when saying “I’m out of sync with this game”

[Irrelephant11]

Skitter talk to me about your Smile and tris scumreads
I’m leaning town on both

[Irrelephant11]

[spoiler-If I towncased smile]

Role PMs will be sent shortly. Night 0 begins now; Day 1 will begin after everyone has confirmed and night actions have been taken.

Since I'm sure at least one of you skimmed through the rules: There are two Jailkeepers.

I suggest that the Town try and keep them alive.

[/b]

That seems to imply both JKs are town, no? thoughts?

- March

This was the first time I thought about Smile being town, iirc. I don't think scum so blatantly goes rolefishing (maybe I'm wrong), but also the setup spec is town indicative because
-The mod quote does indeed imply that both jailkeepers are town, SO:
-> in the scenario where one jailkeeper is scum, scum gains nothing, and kinda outs themselves, by starting a discussion on the alignment of the jailkeepers.
-> In the scenario where neither jailkeeper is scum, scum gains nothing, and kinda softconfirms two roles that will probably later claim, by pointing out the way the mod post implies they're both town

Anyway if Smile is scum this post was more helpful to town than scum, so
If Smile is 3P jailkeeper then I guess this post was maybe good for them tho


249-253 is a fine/good progression & conversation on insomnia imo

Anyway lemme make it clear. If I were to choose someone to lynch rn it's insomnia, then CJ.
It's not my fault you misinterpret how I say things and/or manipulated it to make it seem like theres no reads from us or whatever

- March

Towny self-righteousness

Actually now I think about it I don't recall much about a lot of players

um

Skitter
Does RCE ping you somehow
Do you have thoughts on insomnia's spew about his own meta and all that
Reads on Clarity

- March

Based on skitter's 340, I don't think Smile is partners with skitter

You know I somehow thought it was irrelephant who said those things =.=

anyhow I call these questions yelling at people until they spew their alignment *shrug*

- March

Not over-defensive when called out on "busywork"

Why has Baezu not been replaced yet?

-Beauty

Not partners with Fuscezu

the real hot take is I actually like irrelephant a lot for throw out a random ass hot take

- March

This maybe made me more warm and fuzzy than it should have but I thought

If I can put it into words

I guess I don't see the scum motivation for randomly saying this dude is scum and unnecessarily make enemies
because he sure aint doing anything with the hot take

- March

This was a reasonable explanation for liking my post

Percy why did you drop your push on insomnia, when we could have gotten something going
especially when the new vote is shiidaji which fundamentally does nothing

- March

Somewhat towny to follow up on the insomnia scumread and keep another player accountable for pushing an empty slot
Not towny if Shiidaji-slot flips scum tho I guess

I've given enough of a grace period for prods. They start now; Shiidaji has been prodded.

VOTE COUNT

7 of 13 votes are required to lynch.

Shiidaji (4):

Chara, tris, Irrelephant11, Persivul

Fuscezu (3):

Smile, Miss Kobayashi Maru, ceejayvinoya

Irrelephant11 (2):

Shiidaji, RCEnigma

Miss Kobayashi Maru (1):

ClearlyClarity

insomnia (1):

insomnia

RCEnigma (1):

skitter30

Not Voting (1):

Fuscezu

Deadline is in (expired on 2019-05-22 12:00:00)

Stagnant game state probably implies top wagons being villagers or something
Or it's just shiidaji and he can't post and his partners don't really bother defending there

either way I think its a good look for fus? idk

- March

Maybe not a good post for smile to suggest that Fuscezu is towny because of the wagon on them..... when Smile is part of that wagon....
Yeah this is actually a red flag in retrospect but not damning on its own

ceejayvinoya

[line]Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu[/line]

insomnia

[line]Irrelephant11[/line]
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji

skitter30

[line]Smile[/line]

tris

never touching strikethrough names d1
should probably lynch within bolded
underlined is shit thrown at the wall scum for post game ego

- March

Consistent reads from earlier in the game and a fine PoE. Maybe too much consistency, actually. Not sure what to glean alignment-wise from this post now that I think about it.
Still not scum with skitter though
595-605 is not my favorite progression on tris but if the Beauty head is who I think it is, then the fact that I think they're overanalyzing things is somewhat NAI.[/spoiler]

Not the strongest townread, in retrospect. Hm. There's a few flashes of towniness in the ISO that I was holding onto but I'm not sure I actually like the direction of their pushes

@Smile can you explain what caused you to rule out ClearlyClarity and Fuscezu from today's lynch?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh no! those bb tags :'(
At least the wall isn't as long as some others

[Irrelephant11]

659 from irre is good.

that's what i like to see from him

what's the difference between that and the other ISO explorations I've done this game?

[Irrelephant11]

- Smile
- Chara
- Irrelephant

---

- Fuscezu
- skitter
- CJ

Rest are null. Best I can give you for now

Have you explained your scumread on skitter? If so can you go a little more in depth?

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

At the same time, with this mantra, even if i’m Not currently doing anything, it’s known that regardless of alignment, I would be coming and giving reads, so

i’m Not sure the point of this comment.

I state my reads when i state my reads. If i don’t state them, i don’t really have them. And I state thoughts on specifics

I am simply asking you to provide your reads sooner rather than later.

[Irrelephant11]

Jk on the BPTown

, just gotta defend my throne this year, and when else was I gonna Role 3rd.

What does the bolded mean?

[Irrelephant11]

I will say it’s ironic to have you rep in after being compared to you in this game
Not the first time I’ve been compared to you either

Would you like to vote Clarity with me?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh got it
I thought JK meant jailkeeper
“Jailkeeper on the bulletproof town” and I was confused

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor as fun as it is to read your crazy claims as a spectator I’m much more interested in you providing reads rn please and thank you
I recognize that if you’re trueclaiming then your trueclaiming but your reputation precedes you to the point where I can’t really take anything relating to setup or role stuff at face value from you so please give me some reads that will help me sort you

townposting ^^^^

Disagree. Irrelephant’s actually my first scum read.

I’m having ptsd right now

[Irrelephant11]

The thing that’s already stressing me out is how Flavor and I have in a previous game tunneled each other to a town loss, mostly out of frustration with each other’s personalities, and I’m already frustrated with how he’s engaged with me/my slot in the short amount of time he’s been in the thread and I’m actually like having to take really intentional slow deep breaths rn

That was possibly my least favorite loss and I would like to at least get along with Flavor this time

[Irrelephant11]

But then otoh if he’s scum (and I do sorta scumread his entrance) then I shouldn’t be giving him any room to breathe I should be lynching him as hard as I can which sounds like an unfun road to travel down

[Irrelephant11]

The thing that’s already stressing me out is how Flavor and I have in a previous game tunneled each other to a town loss, mostly out of frustration with each other’s personalities, and I’m already frustrated with how he’s engaged with me/my slot in the short amount of time he’s been in the thread and I’m actually like having to take really intentional slow deep breaths rn

That was possibly my least favorite loss and I would like to at least get along with Flavor this time

I think it was more because I couldn’t get anyone to see that RC was scum and thus I got pushed for it.

I mean I have a distinct memory of reaching out to you in lylo and having you shut me down hard because, and I quote, “this is town RC”
But however you want to remember it

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I don’t actually want to relitigate that game I was a goodish PR and a terrible scumhunter and I don’t think the town loss falls on either of our shoulders as much as the D1 fakeclaimer and I learned some things so yay
I’m just trying to be very honest about why I am likely to change my play now that you’re here, intentionally or not

[Irrelephant11]

I think it was already voting me?

[Irrelephant11]

*sigh*
Care to explain your read?

[Irrelephant11]

It’s different, though. When I’m scum, people don’t know I’m gambiting.

This made me chuckle. You've already insisted you're not gambiting here, either, so......

I'm fine with treating Flavor's claim as true for the day. If he hadn't claimed I think I'd have townread him around now actually (tbh I started writing this post as "I think Flavor might be town?" because I had forgotten/mentally ignored his claim but w/e it doesn't super change things to just think of him as pro-town 3P), because I actually think "I'm here! Who's uncomfortable - they're scummy" is a kinda reasonable entrance to the game for him specifically, even though I don't think it actually applies well here since I've only ever played TvT with FL and am made uncomfortable by that memory specifically/I townread Chara and am kinda mindmelding with its feelings regarding the replace in.

Actually if there's a reason to scumread Flavor it's that I don't see anyone I think is scum being made uncomfortable by his entrance/claim, except potentially tris? who I don't have super strong reasons to townread
Which like sorta implies his teammates are just glad he's here to save the slot

But I'm probably overthinking things since there's so many barely active slots this might not be a useful marker for anything rn

[Irrelephant11]

Also yes Brown Eyes/Fuscosco explain what from me you've found scummy asap please, we're running out of dayphase

I guess FL/RCE/Fuscezu/Brown Eyes can't all be scum
Wait FL can be 3P and the other three can be scum lol
in theory anyway
(I'm not actually pushing this as a scumteam, btw. This part of the post is a joke)

I would love to hear RCE give a read for FL, and FL give a read for skitter

[Irrelephant11]

I would still lynch RCEnigma btw the towniest thing about him was the fact he had a completely crap reason to scumread me
Whereas on the other hand I thought the wagon on him was good and he's contributed very little imo

[Irrelephant11]

I would still lynch RCEnigma btw the towniest thing about him was the fact he had a completely crap reason to scumread me
Whereas on the other hand I thought the wagon on him was good and he's contributed very little imo

So not that I've done anything scummy, but that I've not done enough tonight. That sounds null but ehh.

This is
actually a sorta towny response

Give me something to work with though
Assume I'm town and give me some new reads for a minute, or try to find my partners, or give a readslist. You're not making it easy to work with you if you're town

[Irrelephant11]

the Thor connection.

Oh I didn't realize you were talking about me when you said that
Flattered tbh

and flattery will get you everywhere! I'm into your readslist you can come off the table for me today

[Irrelephant11]

The rest are like null or nonreads.

this is actually probably the biggest reason why
Scum says this occasionally but here it's also more reasonable than in any random game

[Irrelephant11]

It feels weird to throw Skitter in my townreads, I'm not sure how deeply I believe that. Her pushing me makes me want to say town but I don't have any solid reasoning outside of that.

Well,

this

is actually probably the

biggest

reason why I think you might be town
Scum doesn't think they can mislynch skitter easily
Town is paranoid of skitter, though (been experiencing it on and off all game)
so unless you're partnered with her this comes across pretty towny to me

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Smile

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Smile

Is this a sheep or do you have your own reasons for voting?

yes

[Irrelephant11]

@Irrelephant

If CJ is town (not sure he is but I at least kinda feel like the way the PL is treating him is semi-spewing him town),

The PL?

-> in the scenario where one jailkeeper is scum, scum gains nothing, and kinda outs themselves, by starting a discussion on the alignment of the jailkeepers.
-> In the scenario where neither jailkeeper is scum, scum gains nothing, and kinda softconfirms two roles that will probably later claim, by pointing out the way the mod post implies they're both town

Don't these two lines of logic contradict each other? If, in the second scenario, it softconfirms the jailkeepers as town, then wouldn't scum benefit from having their jailkeeper be assumed to be town in the first scenario?

PL = Playerlist - I feel like too few people are treating him as scum for him to be scum. I don't know if that makes any sense actually, but it's my thought

Let me try to explain better.

Given

the mod

already

softconfirmed the jailkeepers as town
Scum who have a jailkeeper are better off not bringing up the question of whether or not the jailkeeper is town (because before Smile's post, I was just sort of living in the belief they were both town without thinking about it)
And scum who don't have a jailkeeper are better off not reminding the entire playerlist that the mod did so

[Irrelephant11]

Don't these two lines of logic contradict each other? If, in the second scenario, it softconfirms the jailkeepers as town, then wouldn't scum benefit from having their jailkeeper be assumed to be town in the first scenario?

Good observation. Keeping this in my ISO.

What about the observation is noteworthy to you? If it's just the setup spec, you can ignore this. If it's something about tris' or my alignment, please answer.

[Irrelephant11]

*tris' or my or Smile's alignment

[Irrelephant11]

This town needs some cohesion and some wagons
Y'all are really out here trying to make your vote do nothing

[Irrelephant11]

I still think that's contradictory. Either making that post calls into question whether jailkeepers are town, or it calls attention to something that suggests they are.

Agree to disagree. In the long run I only brought it up to explain why I lightly townread that post from Smile. It's not a strong point in any direction, as even if I'm right about its effect, scum could still write it. It just seemed lightly towny to me

[Irrelephant11]

The things you’re accusing insomnia of are true about your slot

[Irrelephant11]

Flavor Leaf please explain your win condition
I prefer a Smile lynch to a tris lynch and also am losing my townread on skitter for changing the lynch direction after smile’s crap scumcase on insomnia

[Irrelephant11]

This is a surprisingly slow weekend, considering that you only have 2½ days left before a plurality lynch.

This is weirdly judge-y coming from the mod

[Irrelephant11]

I'm kinda fine with a Clarity lynch because I agree with skitter's points about her meta. Otoh, her response that she'd be doing better if she has experienced partners rings sorta true, but there's situations where scum might bus her early or something so that's not exactly a clearing reason.
Can't shake the feeling Smile is a good lynch and skitter's avoiding it, though

[Irrelephant11]

Can't shake the feeling Smile is a good lynch and skitter's avoiding it, though

I shook the feeling
VOTE: Clarity

[Irrelephant11]

I have no idea which lynch I want most.
Clarity/Fuscezu/Smile/FL seem to be the ones that might happen. We have 26 hours. Anyone got a strong reason to not lynch any of this list?

I get the feeling the people I townread are just sorta *generally* townread and ditto for my scumreads, which means either I've had an outsize influence on the game and have good reads or scum are happy with the current consensus because there's still a good chance today will end in a mislynch
But that gamestate read isn't helping me figure out which of Clarity/Fus/Smile is/are scum and which are scum-led counterwagons

[Irrelephant11]

I think Clarity townreading me and skitter is maybe town-indicative? It's easier to push a counterwagon if you label your own wagon as the scum-designated mislynch. I also don't entirely disagree with clarity's points about having no reads, since scum have more information, not less.

Brown Eyes might also just be scum here hmmmmm

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Smile
Their posts on the last page pinged me a bunch, though I'm not 100% sure I can explain why. I'll try to explain anyway I guess so that this vote doesn't just add to the list of potential-scum-defending-scum-by-shifting-wagons

[Irrelephant11]

I think my main problem with 911 is that Beauty is basically just saying "I'm voting fusc, because I think tris might be scum". There's a lot of words but the thing that's missing is definitely any actual reason to vote fus.

Maybe it's because a lot of what you said in RVS wasn't very funny and can be read as light reads rather than jokes. I look back at your reads over the trajectory of the day and some of your read developments particularly coming out of RVS just look fake. Look at your joke and give me one reason not to see it as weak distancing? OK sure, you can say, 'haha that read was a joke' but there's basically no difference between one of your jokes and someone else giving a basic gut reaction. Except that in each case your later reads on your "joke reads" ends up being townreads.

-Beauty

The issue for me is more that your RVS has a lot of joke reads, which says to me that you weren't really trying to sort people but were just playing politically instead.

I feel like you're trying to goad me back into voting you right now though which is weird.

Maybe you're not groupscum?

-Beauty

Then these two posts are bizarre. Which if I'm right about who Beauty is, that's a word I've used to describe their scumplay before - But regardless, "you weren't really trying to sort people but were just playing politically" is a terrible terrible scumread on tris' early posts that reads to me like a blatant refusal to believe something completely believable and very likely - that tris was joking - in favor of just *choosing* to scumread tris.

I agree with tris' point that "If fus flips scum, I'd look at tris" probably doesn't come from scum trying to bus their partner (though that was already kinda obvious from the survivalistic vote) - but it does read to me like "If fus flips town, I'll probably still just scumread tris" because the only reason Beauty gives for voting fus is that tris is probably scum

I also think {Brown Eyes, Clarity} isn't a pair of people town!Smile sheeps here near end of day. I think skitter is right that the vote is for survival
If this flips scum like 3-4 people become much townier in my eyes

Oh also the way Beauty tries and basically fails to scumread tris --> then tries to label them 3P to get away with scumreading tris --> then just sorta drops it and disappears without any real conclusion does NOT feel like scumhunting

[Irrelephant11]

I could settle for a Flavor lynch but if he's really 3P my internal setup spec-ometer (which is not reliable) says killing him D1 makes the setup an uphill battle for town.

[Irrelephant11]

Well mainly I mean to say that if he's telling the truth about his role it sounds powerful and if he's telling the truth about his wincon he can win with town. So killing him kills a strong semi-town PR
Which are of course reasons why it's a stellar fakeclaim he might just ride out to D2 or later but it does give me pause (and this is besides the fact that town!him would potentially make the same fake claim, though I don't believe very strongly that this is the case)

Smile, otoh, I scumread.

But your points are good too, which is why, like I said, I'll vote FL if the votes are there.

[Irrelephant11]

How do you read Smile, Persivul? Do you agree/disagree with my recent posts about them?

[Irrelephant11]

Actually sheeping brown eyes is 90% of the reason I want fusco. I don't know why you think I wouldn't? Read undertale, she tends to just have the best reads. Its almost like she is the type of player that would win awards for her townplay. I guess some of the rest will of what I said wasn't that compelling because sheeping brown eyes is literally where I started.

And why exactly do I not want to survive? There is nothing pro-town about being mislynched as town.

As for your other points, no, I wanted fusco before tris and my read on fusco brought me back from tris being the best wagon. Tris is probably just town actually. why are you misrepping like every single thing I wrote?

Please quote your reasons for voting fuscezu from before my 934. If you can, I'll agree I must have misrepped you. If you can't, I stand by my read of you.

survivalism is scummy when it seems to take precedence over lynching scum.

Ditto what persivul said re:Brown Eyes.

[Irrelephant11]

If you can, I'll agree I must have misrepped you.

This was meant to say "if you can quote a scumcase from you on fus, then I'll agree...."

[Irrelephant11]

Actually sheeping brown eyes is 90% of the reason I want fusco. I don't know why you think I wouldn't? Read undertale, she tends to just have the best reads. Its almost like she is the type of player that would win awards for her townplay. I guess some of the rest will of what I said wasn't that compelling because sheeping brown eyes is literally where I started.

Brown Eyes has all of 3 posts. You can't possibly be confident she's town at this point. Why would you sheep someone if you're not pretty sure they're town?

Did you want to tell Smile that Brown Eyes' vote was a holdover from their predecessor or should I?

[Irrelephant11]

lol we caught 1

[Irrelephant11]

If you would like to start a wagon on me, go ahead. It will not make your survival any likelier.

[Irrelephant11]

I think you're scum, Smile. Feel free to make a better-than-"complete-garbage" case on someone you think is scum, and I will consider it wholeheartedly. Until then, you are far and away the scummiest player I can find.

pedit: is insomnia scum now?
What changed your tris read btw?

[Irrelephant11]

I said that the main issue I had was that fusco reminds me of how scum skygazer plays. I guess you missed that because that post was probably too wordy but I guess that's my own fault for coming off a long conversation on discord and trying to remember what I had argued to march

I did miss that.
It's also not really a case, seeing as fuscezu is not skygazer.

[Irrelephant11]

I said that the main issue I had was that fusco reminds me of how scum skygazer plays. I guess you missed that because that post was probably too wordy but I guess that's my own fault for coming off a long conversation on discord and trying to remember what I had argued to march

I did miss that.
It's also not really a case, seeing as fuscezu is not skygazer.

Wow

no u

pedit: I know March's read on insomnia. Your "why is this slot still alive" did not jive with the fact that you moved your vote to fus, so I don't feel I know your read on insomnia. Is it the same as March's, then?

[Irrelephant11]

Or at least suspicion, I think you're right though, given your wking fusco is probably town too

I forget - aside from pushing obvtown Smile who townily makes "complete garbage" cases 36 hours from deadline, what makes me scum?

[Irrelephant11]

Or at least suspicion, I think you're right though, given your wking fusco is probably town too

I forget - aside from pushing obvtown Smile who townily makes "complete garbage" cases 36 hours from deadline, what makes me scum?

VOTE: relly

Got it, thank you.

[Irrelephant11]

I never said your case on fusco was dependent on tris being town. Quotes or it didn't happen
I never said I scumread you for not reading the thread - I guess this part is probably to Percy?

[Irrelephant11]

Ah. I

still

think that a majority of the words you said while giving reasons to scumread fusco are based on interactions and things with a potential!scum!tris
You're right that in the midst of that you also pointed out the fuscezu's play here reminds you of scum!skygazer.
The only other reason you listed was that you were sheeping Brown Eyes - who hasn't yet played.
That is an extremely thin case to make this close to deadline, I have called you out for it and for the survivalism it represents.

I think that if you were town you'd understand well (especially since you called your own case garbage) why I would scumread the opportunism and lack of scumhunting your recent posts represent, and nullread or townread me while looking for scum elsewhere. Instead you are using your vote to attempt eliminate the biggest threat to your survival (and in the process starting a vanity wagon which, iirc, was something you wanted to avoid when placing your vote on fuscezu) - something that is scum's number 1 priority, and not a direct priority for town in most cases.

If you want me to place my vote somewhere else, make a non-garbage case or reach out to me regarding insomnia.
Nothing from our 1v1 here has felt like a reason to townread you, though. So for now my vote stays where it is.

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah and yet that's the other 50% of relly's case on me.

Again, false. The fact that your play here reminds me of a time you played scum is incidental to the actual case I provided to others to read and only marginal to my own read on you (something like 5%).

I guess I get that you don't need my vote to try to mislynch me so you're done appealing to me but I'm still gonna call you out on BS

[Irrelephant11]

I guess I'm the safest player in the playerlist to try to lynch without spewing somebody new as town?
Not sure what else Beauty is doing with their vote

[Irrelephant11]

So you're unwilling to towncase your strongest townread who you are also sheeping?

So you’re unwilling to scumcase your strongest scumread who you are also voting?

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, in a stagnant gamestate with three equally viable lynches I am thirsty for the mislynch of the mighty, terrifying Smile, capable of garbage cases and not reading the thread
You are my mislynch priority rn, and for good reason

[Irrelephant11]

I'm a day 2 IC

VOTE: Smile

harder

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, in a stagnant gamestate with three equally viable lynches I am thirsty for the mislynch of the mighty, terrifying Smile, capable of garbage cases and not reading the thread
You are my mislynch priority rn, and for good reason

I have carried you as town so yeah I think you know how strong my townplay can be when I actually bother to play

Well this is actually baffling because I've never T/T'd the person I thought you were

[Irrelephant11]

I don't know what "during" means

Either I'm wrong about who you are or have a bad memory. I'm leaning towards the first rn, because I just double checked and still can't find any t/t games with who I thought you were. There are not many potential grand reveals here that would dramatically change my read on you though

[Irrelephant11]

you're not a duck, penguin, or zebra, right? 'Cause those are the only three dramatic reveals I can think of that would break my read on you

[Irrelephant11]

A D2 IC is not enough of a reason for me to not lynch you in a role madness game

To reiterate, your goal in voting fuscezu was not anything you said here:

I mean, we have a lot of vanity votes on solo wagons right now. At some point people have to start being willing to work together. If you want tris to go through today you should push that but I don't see that happening right now. I'm not really in love with your CC wagon. You seem to townread Fusc but if I remember right you basically said "I can't explain why" one of the last times you were asked about it. Maybe you explained somewhere else that I missed. So what's bad other on fusc than your gut townread on the slot? So if you want to lead on tris then go for it, and yeah my vote can be seen as survivalistic because I don't really see a point of starting a new wagon at a point when there's so much apathy in the game that half the player list is barely posting at all. -Beauty

But rather to further the wagon on yourself so you could find a new scum to start a wagon on within the last 24 hours of the game day?
And, presumably, this scum you've found is me, who you have not yet cased for the rest of the town to be able to sheep you.
You played this way because you knew that drawing the lynch toward yourself by playing poorly near deadline would not, in fact, lead to your own demise, but would rather be easily explained away, your (new) preferred lynch would go through, and then you'd be an IC D2.

Is that summary correct?

pedit: I am not trying to backpedal. Talk about misrepping. I don't care who you are, you're clearly scum.

[Irrelephant11]

I guess I trust town will just know what to do here. I'll check in before deadline but I've let this endless arguing distract me from work for too long

peditx2: I'm actually laughing

[Irrelephant11]

Still on page 38. I don't want to come around to irrel just bring town, I've been on the opposite side if all his reads up to this point afaik. So I either have really terrible reads or he's likely scum putting the game in his hands right?

But I agree with the assessment on CC though I wouldn't doubt her to placate town voices if she's scum. Also agree on the FL assessment, he's not going anywhere, it's not an immediate issue.

Didn't dive too deep into smiles case on fusco whom I think is town. I remember thinking smile was indirectly deflecting from CC with the vote and even though I think CC is town... It's a believable team.

Sounds like we agree on CC, FL, fuscezu, and smile. What reads are we on opposite sides of?

[Irrelephant11]

One reason scum might fakeclaim D2 innocent child is that they might have a very powerful night PR. Letting them live to D2 gives them a chance to both:
-get a mislynch in for D1
-use their powerful PR once before dying
-be the one to perform the nightkill so trackers can't get guilties on their partners
-etc

If Beauty felt certain that their slot was going to die, that claim might help them get a mislynch and a night action in before dying. It's not a very believable claim imo, because it doesn't match how the slot has played thus far.

pedit: So the only read we disagreed on was each other? I've come around to you being town. I don't see why you wouldn't, given we agree on reads and I posted most of those reads first (so you know I'm not just sheeping you)

[Irrelephant11]

huhhhhhhh
kinda doubt Smile's vengekill and FL's wincon lol

[Irrelephant11]

If this flips scum I think fus is town
if this flips town I'm gonna have such a bad feeling all night phase

[Irrelephant11]

FL do you really win because that would be sorta fun but also awkward if your thing is true and Smile’s isnt

[Irrelephant11]

My rolecard suggests that nobody else has my role
If I flip I’m not sure that part will flip so I’m posting it

[Irrelephant11]

Never lynch Persivul

[Irrelephant11]

Well played FL
VOTE: Clarity

Fuscezu, Insomnia, and tris are 90% towncleared from Smile’s flip in my eyes

[Irrelephant11]

I think scum might just be two of Clarity/CJ/Succinct

[Irrelephant11]

Chara/Smile isn’t entirely clearing aside form Chara’s vote but I townread them anyway

[Irrelephant11]

Skitter could be scum if that trio I listed really town it up/are cleared by PRs but there’s some not-bad distancing if so

[Irrelephant11]

I don’t think Clarity/skitter are scum together and I think a Clarity is scummier

[Irrelephant11]

Actually now I think about it I don't recall much about a lot of players

um

Skitter
Does RCE ping you somehow
Do you have thoughts on insomnia's spew about his own meta and all that
Reads on Clarity

- March

....
i'm voting rce; i said earlier he was pinging me as scum
i said pretty clearly that i'm townreading insomnia; i kinda believe his meta tbh
i don't have a read on clarity rn; that's why i asked her if she had any reads she'd like to share

ngl those questions kinda feel like busywork; like four posts above this one i talked about insomnia and voted rce?

You know I somehow thought it was irrelephant who said those things =.=

anyhow I call these questions yelling at people until they spew their alignment *shrug*

- March

This is weird for S/S

[Irrelephant11]

Skitter could be scum if that trio I listed really town it up/are cleared by PRs but there’s some not-bad distancing if so

tell me about the distancing?

also, i see why you have Clearly and cj (though i have no read on cj), but i'm going to look for why you have Succinct slot. it's possible i'm still missing pages but i don't believe so.

I spent the night phase combing Smile’s ISO and also skimming most other ISOs for associations
Smile has s/s associations with Clarity and basically no associations with CJ/Succinct

[Irrelephant11]

march i kinda think that you lot might be scum

Lets talk about it tomorrow

-march

skitter are you here

I'm gonna try to get some work done here and you can talk about anything you want to me in the mean time idk

- March

This also felt kinda like scum trying to impress/appease town!skitter

[Irrelephant11]

skitter are you tring tris?

-Beauty

i could vote tris too btw i think

somehow I missed this 0.o

nvm on that last q

-Beauty

ceejayvinoya

[line]Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu[/line]

insomnia

[line]Irrelephant11[/line]
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji

skitter30

[line]Smile[/line]

tris

never touching strikethrough names d1
should probably lynch within bolded
underlined is shit thrown at the wall scum for post game ego

- March

These could be s/s but it’s not my first thought

[Irrelephant11]

Idk I’m on mobile so I don’t remember what my spreadsheet showed for some slots
I wanna say skitter/Smile and RCE/Smile were the similar ones?

[Irrelephant11]

Smile wanted insomnia/tris/fuscezu lynched
All three participated in catching Smile dead
If one of those three is scum they planned a bus from real early on

[Irrelephant11]

Fuscezu is only scum if Clarity is scum and town had the three scum wagoned at EOD (which, lol)

[Irrelephant11]

If there’s a 3P out there I’ve spent basically no time trying to find them
Just throwing that out there because I forgot to look for a 3P after FL claimed

[Irrelephant11]

can you go over the s/s associations with Clarity and Smile?

i also don't know if i buy skitter's interactions with Smile there. they aren't hard to fake, while behaviour that actually has to do with who gets lynched in the end (end of day behaviour in this case, when plurality wagons were moving) is more convincing to me.

pedit: i mean, that's possible. if i remember correctly, March said they only had experience with me as a player, but i have no idea who they are.

Oh right Clarity/Smile stuff
Yeah I’ll pull some up

[Irrelephant11]

three people: -comments on arbitrary scumminess of an innocent intro post-
me: -old man shrug meme-

@Clarity Are you town? And, does anything from anyone stick out to you?

No point in answering the first question.

I like the Pretty Cure hydra. Y'all are neat.

you got any impressions of anybody? I'm still reading

All I've got is a slight townlean on the PreCure hydra and that's it

Tbh I'm a bit intimidated by the amount of clearly experienced players in a bigger game than I'm used to, not to mention it's a semi-closed setup. Feels like a lot of the experienced ones are debating mafia theory rather than anything about this game too so I'm kinda just hoping for a brainwave rn.

Clarity has one read: Smile is town. What’s the reasoning?

three people: -comments on arbitrary scumminess of an innocent intro post-
me: -old man shrug meme-

@Clarity Are you town? And, does anything from anyone stick out to you?

No point in answering the first question.

I like the Pretty Cure hydra. Y'all are neat.

I feel like if a new-ish player is a wolf then they would sound a little bit more tense than Clarity here? (yes pocket me harder)
idk her meta but she gains magical girl points from March

- Cure March

Smile’s only analysis of Clarity is in the above post

I feel like if a new-ish player is a wolf then they would sound a little bit more tense than Clarity here? (yes pocket me harder)
idk her meta but she gains magical girl points from March

Yes! I've always wanted magical girl points.

Meh

To elaborate more on Smile townlean which is pretty much the sole read I’m slightly sure about: I feel like their scattered thoughts and reads are more town-indicative because as scum they’d be more likely to collaborate on their posts so that they’re not likely to contradict each other. That they’re just throwing out their individual thoughts without much consideration vibes town to me

This post felt a little coached to me att compared to other Clarity posts but regardless of if that’s true this is the only “real” read Clarity provided D1

I was about to try to make a PoE but I have to go into a meeting

Hot take: fuscezu is scum
idk if that take is hot it's just something I'm feeling in this moment

Kinda seeing this too actually

Shown later to be a fake read, for example

Also four people have commented on my intro post and I'm going to assume scum is at least one of you

There's no other reason I see for the consistent reference to a post that should be completely NAI.

One of these “four people” was Smile

ceejayvinoya

[line]Chara
ClearlyClarity
Fuscezu[/line]

insomnia

[line]Irrelephant11[/line]
Miss Kobayashi Maru
Persivul
RCEnigma
Shiidaji

skitter30

[line]Smile[/line]

tris

never touching strikethrough names d1
should probably lynch within bolded
underlined is shit thrown at the wall scum for post game ego

- March

Never gave enough reason to cross off Clarity here

- Smile
- Chara
- Irrelephant

---

- Fuscezu
- skitter
- CJ

Rest are null. Best I can give you for now

Never gave enough reason to put Smile up high

I am taking control of our vote~~~

VOTE: Fuscezu

I've poked March about the insomnia vote. I don't hate it but I don't think we have time left in the day to get a wagon there tbh. We also talked about tris, and March saw one post that she thought was maybe townie, I disagree about that post being townie but I don't think my scumread there is strong enough to make it worth fighting about. One thing I thought was interesting though was that tris/fuscezu came up, since March pointed out that a lot of her reads are kinda vague except for Fusc. Tris started out with a scumread on Fusc and then maintained a townread. March is kinda ok with that development but I again disagree.

If Fusc flipped scum, I think it would be worth revisiting tris. But for now my bigger problem is with Fusc. I was fine with our vote on Fusc for most of the day and honestly didn't fully understand why March moved us off. Going back to reread that slot now I kinda don't understand how tris sees town there and I feel like fusco has played in a way that reminds me very much of someone like scum!skygazer where he tries to be cool and emphasize his own activity even though he's not doing much. 'im reading' 'im still reading' etc. Also notice a noncommittal read here on tris, which reinforces my thought that tris/fusc could be s/s, with fusc avoiding a read and tris trying for early distancing and then a townread.

Spoiler:

(March didn't want me to mention this but there's also the fact that I think Brown Eyes, when town, has the strongest day 1 reads of people I know, even when she's only paying about 20% attention to the game. Every other time I've played with her I've scumread her incorrectly for lack of presence and while her not doing much doesn't make her conftown, I feel like her reads in this sort of game state are more likely to be stronger than my own, or for that matter, March's. <3 u March)

I've been thinking about skitter's argument on CC, and to be honest CC is a slot that has been very much under the radar for me. Despite having 50+ posts I feel like the slot has had very little presence. On going back through the iso 674 jumps out at me -- while I appreciate the townread, the more important thing to me is skitter scum along with fusc and cj. CJ is null to me but could be scum, fusc I think is scum, and skitter is someone I can see CC being paranoid about as town. So this would not be my first preference for today. That being said, I feel like CC did not push Fuscezu very hard after voting that slot, so there's some risk of that being scum distancing. I'd vote there if I have to to avoid my own mislynch but I'd much prefer Fusc, and if not Fusc then tris.

Bottom line is I think fusc is the best day 1 for us.

-Beauty

Smile, desperate for a lynch beside themselves, towncases Clarity, who arguably would have been a much easier lynch to push than Fuscezu

Then Clarity votes Smile despite the Smile townread being the strongest and longest-held read they had all D1

[Irrelephant11]

You:

i'm also of the opinion that first-day scum lynches can be the death of town. i've talked about this before. the first day is the easiest day to put down good associations with buddies, and negative associations with town.

Me:

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

[Irrelephant11]

Sometimes town just wins real good. No reason to think I’m way off track if I’ve lynched scum and haven’t yet lynched town

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll also note that if Clarity is scum Chara is actually up there as a potential third
But associations with Smile alone aren’t enough for me to want Chara’s lynch yet

[Irrelephant11]

What about RCE’s alignment depends on Clarity’s?

[Irrelephant11]

You:

i'm also of the opinion that first-day scum lynches can be the death of town. i've talked about this before. the first day is the easiest day to put down good associations with buddies, and negative associations with town.

Me:

125[post] and [post]244.
i'm still keeping an eye on skitter, but i don't think unnecessary paranoia is helpful after our last game.

i'm not sure what your point is here?

Sometimes town just wins real good. No reason to think I’m way off track if I’ve lynched scum and haven’t yet lynched town

[Irrelephant11]

I’m never voting in {Persivul, fuscezu, tris, insomnia} unless I’m in 5-way with them or find reason to believe that group has a 3P

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I have one scum dead and four townreads of high confidence
I’m not just going to assume my townreads are wrong because that has happened to other people other times
So I feel pretty good about where I’m at and the gamestate, yes

I see what you’re saying about skitter. I don’t disagree skitter might be scum. I just think a wagon on Clarity is better at this time. Do you disagree that if {Clarity, skitter} has exactly one scum the higher information wagon is likely to be on Clarity?

[Irrelephant11]

Higher-information potential wagon*

[Irrelephant11]

I thought my/RCE’s slowly developing townreads on each other was pretty town-indicative for him
If Clarity is scum (which I think Smile’s refusal to vote her at EOD suggests) I don’t think skitter has done anything scummy

[Irrelephant11]

The main thing I’m nervous about is a 3P so whoever’s scum should probably find them so that you can have one more day to live

[Irrelephant11]

What should I be noticing there’s a lot to notice
Also I disagree, I think it’s very meaningful; I said already and will reiterate that I think Clarity was way more lynchable than Fuscezu, so air they’re both town I wouldn’t expect Smile to intentionally differentiate them and push on Fus

Pedit: I mean I’ll tell you you’re right but I said it too

[Irrelephant11]

Because I think smile spewed a lot of people’s alignments in relationship to theirs
But scum doesn’t know who third party is so my townblock could have third party in it

[Irrelephant11]

Good point
Anything else you wanna discuss besides these two slots?
And uh, wanna vote Clarity with me for now? Who knows, maybe a TPR has already settled Clarity and/or Skitter’s alignment. I’m more than willing to push skitter later this gameday

[Irrelephant11]

If I have reason to townread Clarity later (like, say, her extremely towny reaction and/or claim after getting wagoned right out of the gate this gameday) then skitter sure would look scummier
I’m losing my townread on you, voting Clarity who might be town is 0% dangerous for town!you
My spreadsheet actually told me scum was you/Clarity and I didn’t want to believe it, maybe I should have

[Irrelephant11]

If you’re town you’re being annoying
VOTE: skitter

[Irrelephant11]

Lol you weren’t even voting skitter?
And for the record “my townread asked me to” is a STELLAR reason in the game of mafia to place a vote on someone who you basically just said you scumread

[Irrelephant11]

I think scum might just be two of Clarity/CJ/Succinct

i'm not townreading any of this pool (and scumreading Clarity a bit), but i looked at skitter's behaviour around the tris and Smile wagons last night and didn't love it.

[Irrelephant11]

But like, it feels like pre-skitter-flip you’ve entirely lost your scumread on Smile because of a certainty skitter will flip scum
So unless you have a guilty on skitter your play re/Clarity has stopped making much sense to me as town

[Irrelephant11]

Someone uninformed with the reads

A is town
B is scumlean
C is scumread, but never with B

Shouldn’t get pissed with A asks them to vote B - votes can move you know

Pedit: I’m trying to regain my townread on your slot because I thought I townread you pretty strongly, which is why I’m still arguing

[Irrelephant11]

Like I’ll be real transparent and say I like you and your playstyle and had some moments last gameday I thought I really read you strongly town so I *want* you to be town but your play regarding Clarity is confirming the evidence-based Smile/Clarity/Chara team I had on my spreadsheet that I was ignoring because I thought you were town

But you’ve provided no real reasons Clarity is town aside from not being scum with skitter and I don’t get why you insist on not voting her

Pedit: fine
Someone like Percy or tris can decide if I was a chump for joining your wagon when mine made and makes more sense or if you’re still town
I’m feeling to many feelings now

[Irrelephant11]

Without arguing any further about your answer, can I ask one last question?

[Irrelephant11]

A yes/no question

[Irrelephant11]

Someone uninformed with the reads

A is town
B is scumlean
C is scumread, but never with B

Shouldn’t get pissed with A asks them to vote B

Does this^ ring true to you y/n?

[Irrelephant11]

Okay
Seems we’re at a stalemate of sorts and I’m not willing to break that for now
No hard feelings if you’re town, I’m sure we’ll get past this uncomfy moment
And especially no hard feelings if you’re scum, you’ve done a great job getting me to back off

I’m gonna exit the thread now I think it’s time for some other voices

Pedit: wait did I miss a question or you still have one?

Hi RCE
Unfortunately Chara has my mind spinning so I’m gonna ignore your post aside from saying I think it’s a good post

[Irrelephant11]

why did i bus Smile in your evidence based spreadsheet?

pedit: fine, ask it.

this was my question.

Because you weren’t itt when Smile’s lynch was turning from “one of multiple options” to “the lynch for D1”