Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:42 pm

Post by Umlaut »

In post 227, Titus wrote:If you want to take the whole day, do so. If it's a serious enough distraction from being your best, but you still want to play, I can give you a day 1 lynch pass. This would be true regardless of your alignment. I have been there struggling with mental, physical, and financial health during mafia games. Playing, albeit terribly, helped me get through it. This is my conftown policy unless I get too many requests like that.

Take care of yourself.
That's generous of you, but I don't expect to need all that -- things should be resolved in an IRL day or two and anyway I'm in the position of caretaker rather than patient.
In post 242, Nahdia wrote:
In post 226, Umlaut wrote:Fwog wagon is still ???
you asked and i answered. dont ignore me, friend umlaut. if you're going to cast shade, you must be willing to step into the sun.
Honestly I just missed your answer there. Looking back at : Eh, I guess. In early game I don't think it's too bad to throw out questions without really having a plan for what to do with the answer, and so while "to spark conversation" is kind of a lame response I don't really expect a good one. But on looking at it again I agree in particular is kind of a weird question to ask if one is not actually entertaining an SvS model.
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:43 pm

Post by gobbledygook »

VC 1.5
Fenraiser
osuka
NorwegianBoyEE
ManateeDude
Black Ranger (1) - LuckyLuciano
bob3141 (2) - osuka, Umlaut
Wake88 (1) - fwogcarf
fwogcarf (4) - Nahdia, bob3141, SirCakez, Black Ranger (L-4)
Umlaut (1) - Drew-Sta
Titus
Drew-Sta
LuckyLuciano
SirCakez (1) - NorwegianBoyEE
Nahdia


Not Voting
(4) - Fenraiser, ManateeDude, Wake88, Titus

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to remove someone from the town.

Deadline
: (expired on 2020-06-09 12:00:00)

Umlaut is a traitorous banana for stealing my page top.[/color]


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Last edited by gobbledygook on Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm

Post by Umlaut »

Bwahaha

*twirls mustache*
“There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say, ‘There are two kinds of people in this world: those who say there are two kinds of people in this world,
and the other kind,
’ and those who
don’t
say. Well, then there’s me.” — J.R. “Bob” Dobbs
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:29 pm

Post by SirCakez »

In post 222, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 54, Black Ranger wrote:1. Your story gives scum a means of coasting through the game all under the guise of "it's all in good fun"!

2. Calling it out prematurely denies information.

3. Calling ME out on not continuing the story means you surely don't care about using this story as a means of finding coasting scum.
This is the kind of post that is usually made by asshole town, i mean sure. The attitude is kind of douchey, but probably town.
Why though? I see asshole scum making this post too.
In post 224, NorwegianboyEE wrote:VOTE: SirCakez Dislike some of your posts.
Post , it's apparently a "scummy reaction" from BR to shit on a guy making story time in the Mafia thread? Why would that be indicative of scumminess? The story thing had nothing to do with the game, so any emotional outburst from it you can apparently deduce as scum/town?
Post , Nahdia asked why you scumread BR and you give some half-assed explanation about scum trying to get in "content". I do not see what you mean? Post elaborates, but why would a single RVS vote give off such an strong reaction from you?
Because it's a huge overreaction. Like scum defensiveness in response to the accusation part of Lucky's post.
2. It's not really a strong read? It was five pages into the game. Why assume it was?
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:32 pm

Post by fwogcarf »

In post 249, Titus wrote:@fwo Don't worry about proving yourself. Go forth with confidence. Act as if there's no wagon on you. You can do this. Tell me your current theory.
Osuka and Bob certaintly isn't SvS (Scum v Scum). I don't see two wolves attacking each other like they did and might continue doing. I can see them both being scum, and I'll present these points with refreshed information from other people.

Osuka's tone is horrible and a good reason to scumread for. He taunts Bob for half the time while also giving out points that i can somewhat agree with. But like I said before, his attitude of "I'm better than you, so agree with my points" is worse than Bob's own anger imo.

Bob's rushing to answer is NAI. He also brings some valid points, but he brings his anger out on everybody else after the main event of the argument ended, which I can see a wolf doing out of pure frustration.

Regarding other players, Nahdia is meh, Cakez and Drew are reachy, and Umlaut is fine
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm

Post by Fenraiser »

I think any earlier townreads on Black are kinda weak because they assume scum wouldn't be aggressive early on when I feel it's really more up to an individual player. I feel Cakez on this.

Fwog coming in and analysing was refreshing to see after the previous arguments. I cant follow all of what he's saying rn in regards to Bob/Osuka (will dive later) but it seems to be a refreshing take on bob/osuka compared to other people. Also, his level head is a good look for us overall.
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:03 pm

Post by Drew-Sta »

In post 174, bob3141 wrote:@drew regarding question pointed at post 60. The question was to ask what lucky thought of blacks push. I made no inference on rangers push my self. A question that was intended to dig out luckys reasoning for his scum read of black

A question lucky just answered with fluff question.

I personaly doubt rangers push comes from scum. And do find it a bit suspect that lucky cant come up with reason as to why he thinks rangers push comes from scum
In post 175, bob3141 wrote:
@drew regarding question pointed at post 60. The question was to ask what lucky thought of blacks push. I made no inference on rangers push my self. A question that was intended to dig out luckys reasoning for his scum read of black

A question lucky just answered with fluff.

I personaly doubt rangers push comes from scum. And do find it a bit suspect that lucky cant come up with reason as to why he thinks rangers push comes from scum

corrected. vestigial word got left in
I don't understand the bold.

You're scum reading Lucky based off their vote? Just making sure I'm clear on what you're saying.

@Black Ranger:

Spoiler:
In post 179, Black Ranger wrote:
In post 148, Drew-Sta wrote:
In post 43, Black Ranger wrote:But I suppose we're only missing two people that matter.

Hm
Who? And why do they matter?
Tchill and Saudade. Titus was the third player not in the game, but she's conftown and wasn't necessary to break ourselves out of RVS.
In post 148, Drew-Sta wrote:1. Why do you think this?
2. Does it? Why?
3. I don't think that was their aim. I believe they cleared it up but it seemed fairly easy to see early on what they were trying to do, which was generate content.
1. Basic sensibility.
a. 2. Sure. Once you announce a tell you can't accurately use it again, either because scum will now avoid the trap or they will
purposely
fall into it as a means of subversion. It wouldn't be useless, but it now becomes something in the realm of "not a singular reason you should be applying against someone".

In post 148, Drew-Sta wrote:This has dissonance with your and previous posts. The reason why is you deliberately take the game out of RVS with what you say, and then put us back in with an RVS vote.

What was your intent with driving for this? .
b. osuka had 2 votes, so with Luciano's vote change onto me that wagon overtook wake. I wanted responses to the osuka wagon. RVS was already declining:

In post 35, Umlaut wrote:
In post 28, osuka wrote:
In post 27, Umlaut wrote:Hah, my plan to pre-emptively OMGUS has succeeded after all!
What do you hope to accomplish with said plan
All I really hoped to accomplish was entertaining myself, but your weirdly oversensitive response is an unexpected bonus.
In post 41, Umlaut wrote:
@osuka
Want to talk about your vote on me? No one else wants to talk about anything, so you might as well.
I really didn't like this series of posts because
this
was threatening to take us out of RVS, and failing some miraculous series of events I always view these types of posts with suspicion. I might be wrong - but scum
love
getting out of RVS so they can claim they did something.


Listed and bolded what I wish to discuss:

a. I feel like you're stretching there. I agree it looked odd, but the intent seemed to be to get engagement with the game by making people post glib shit. I don't think you're misrepresenting of them but I don't agree with your assessment.
b. This pings me. Seems like you made a fuss, then got caught out, and back tracked in your behaviour.
In post 192, Nahdia wrote:i legitimately just didnt want to read it.
Ping. You're in a game about reading. It was painful, I agree, but skimming is something scum would do, not town.
In post 199, LuckyLuciano wrote:I've only done a brief skim, but there are two topics I want to immediately address, and I will go back through and answer some of the smaller things.

(1) Lucky not wanting to scumhunt prior to all of the players being in the game.


Yeah, and I'm probably not going to scumhunt after all of the players are int he game either. It's not how I intend to play the game. My first game on mafiascum, Newbie 1988, came after a multiyear hiatus from mafia offsite. Titus was in that game. I ended up figuring out the game at the end, but not before I confbias tunneled nearly every single town in the game. I thought a lot about what went wrong that game, and how my play that game was different from my old town games before. The main difference I found was that I focused more on building town blocks before to minimize my tendency to be paranoid of people and assume everyone has an ulterior motive. My solve of that game game when I stopped looking for reasons people are scum and started looking for reasons people are town. My town play in Newbie 1995 is notably different than my town play in Newbie 1988 because it is a direct response to the flaws I saw in my play in 1988. I took this a step further after the game by observing Newbie 1998. The idea was I could put myself in a situation where it is not possible for me to pursue scumreads, as I wasn't in the game, making it easier to focus on townreads. I solved the game very early in my PT through PoE. The next game I played where I focused really hard on implementing this strategy was Newbie 2002. I made two pushes that entire game. The first was a reaction test which I explained throughout the game helped me develop strong townreads and limit my solve to 3 players on day 1. The second push was the only actual push that wasn't justified as "mafia by PoE", i.e. the only active push onto one of the 3 players in my PoE. It happened to be on the only town player in my PoE. While we won the game easily, and I had a correct solve early Day 1, it was further proof to myself that when I scumhunt, I confbias hella hard and even when I'm picking between 2 scum and a town to case, it's easy for me to zone in on the townie and convince myself they are scum.

That doesn't mean I won't call out things that I find scummy. If something pings me, I note it. I just prefer to build a town block because I'm better at that, mostly via being really, really bad when I confbias tunnel. Examples where I confbias tunnel and it's bad for town include, Newbie 1988, Newbie 1996 (I actually had a correct PoE early, and then let myself get so annoyed with a player that I pushed them so hard it derailed the entire game), and Micro 938 (I went into 5p LYLO knowing with pretty high certainty at least 1 of the mafia and planned to wait until 3p LYLO to finish the solve, but let another player's weird behavior throw me into a confbias tunnel that prevented me from even considering the second player, Umlaut, as scum).

It's kinda funny really, I sniped this game in the signups after Titus signed up, because she was largely the reason I didn't straight leave the site after how poorly I performed in my first game here. I literally cased every single townie in the game at some point. Now she's conftown and isn't going to be leading with reads so I don't get to interact with her how I wanted to. That is to say, I was excited to play with her now that my strategy revolves more around cooperative play than trying to solo carry the game, and she's in a position to observe an give her thoughts at EoD rather than actively work with players as they develop reads.

---

Change of plans. I cut the second topic I wanted to discuss and pasted it into a word doc to bring up at a later time, I've realized it has more value discussing later. I'll be back in a few hours to address other topics that popped up while I was gone.
This is an inordinate post trying to justify your decision not to scum hunt. I don't believe this comes from a town place. It's like you're flashing your cards to us to feign innocence and makes me think you have something hidden.
In post 211, SirCakez wrote:
In post 161, Nahdia wrote:so realtalk, did anyone else just like... not read the whole bob/osuka thing? show of hands? o/
In post 148, Drew-Sta wrote:Why?
sarcasm, my dude
In post 157, SirCakez wrote:Nahdia seems sort of townie? I haven't played with her in ages so my meta is junk.
mmmmm why? any reasoning besides stale meta?
you seem to not care about other players which is a good thing alignment-wise

Black Ranger's posts read really overwrought. like they're trying to make sure everything looks right. I dislike it.
I get that sense a little too. It's a 'I'm trying hard, guys, I'm town' feel to it.
In post 226, Umlaut wrote:Only half here today, dealing with RL medical things

VOTE: Bob
Osuka looks a bit better over time and I agree upon consideration that Bob's plagiaristic approach to reads is unnerving.

No real read on the replacements yet.

Fwog wagon is still ???
Can you expand why you think bob is scum?
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:04 pm

Post by Drew-Sta »

Just catching up. More I will post, soon.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:08 pm

Post by osuka »

In post 254, fwogcarf wrote:Osuka's tone is horrible and a good reason to scumread for. He taunts Bob for half the time while also giving out points that i can somewhat agree with. But like I said before, his attitude of "I'm better than you, so agree with my points" is worse than Bob's own anger imo.
Why is my tone a good reason to scumread me? You really should know that 1. I’m not being nearly as big an ass as I can be, and most importantly 2. I can be an ass regardless of alignment.

I’m actually a little surprised that I come across as “I’m better than you and you should agree with me”, because that’s not typically my mindset when I play. I just don’t like to mince words and I get annoyed fairly easily

That all being said, though, I probably am better than many and you should agree with me.


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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:04 pm

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

In post 258, osuka wrote:That all being said, though, I probably am better than many and you should agree with me.
I’d like to see you 360 noscope some scum this game.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:13 pm

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

In post 253, SirCakez wrote:Because it's a huge overreaction.
Precisely what i thought about your vote.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:38 pm

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

Did anyone else polish their banana today?
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:11 pm

Post by bob3141 »

@drew na what i meant was that it was intended to try and sort lucky.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:38 am

Post by ManateeDude »

can I unashamedly sheep norwee on the cakez read
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:39 am

Post by ManateeDude »

fwog is actually really towny imo the wagon should not be there
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:02 am

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

Come hither child. Let us wagon for the sake of justice.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:03 am

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

In post 253, SirCakez wrote:2. It's not really a strong read? It was five pages into the game. Why assume it was?
It is also to be mentioned that Cakez is trying to say he wasn’t being serious about his read on BR. But a simple look into his previous posts will prove that to be blatantly false.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:06 am

Post by NorwegianboyEE »

A weak read is something you’d pounce at with the strenght of an trained attack dog? A weak read is something you’d use such language as: "scummy ass reaction" from BR to justify?
How does that fit into your explanation for your behaviour?
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:36 am

Post by ManateeDude »

In post 265, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Come hither child. Let us wagon for the sake of justice.
VOTE: Cakez
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:44 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 266, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In post 253, SirCakez wrote:2. It's not really a strong read? It was five pages into the game. Why assume it was?
It is also to be mentioned that Cakez is trying to say he wasn’t being serious about his read on BR. But a simple look into his previous posts will prove that to be blatantly false.
In post 267, NorwegianboyEE wrote:A weak read is something you’d pounce at with the strenght of an trained attack dog? A weak read is something you’d use such language as: "scummy ass reaction" from BR to justify?
How does that fit into your explanation for your behaviour?
Misrep. Not strong =/= I'm not serious. I am very serious.
What are you trying to get at here? I can call stuff out and not feel super confident about it. It's ridiculous that you're trying to paint me as scummy for not having a 100% SUPER LOCK SURE SCUMREAD on someone this early in the game.

Why are you so desperate to defend BR, hmm?
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:46 am

Post by Titus »

In post 269, SirCakez wrote:Why are you so desperate to defend BR, hmm?
This sounds fake.
Show
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You're letting Titus win the game by herself.Good luck now I guess.You have no chance to win.~Tywin

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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:01 am

Post by fwogcarf »

In post 258, osuka wrote:
In post 254, fwogcarf wrote:Osuka's tone is horrible and a good reason to scumread for. He taunts Bob for half the time while also giving out points that i can somewhat agree with. But like I said before, his attitude of "I'm better than you, so agree with my points" is worse than Bob's own anger imo.
Why is my tone a good reason to scumread me? You really should know that 1. I’m not being nearly as big an ass as I can be, and most importantly 2. I can be an ass regardless of alignment.

I’m actually a little surprised that I come across as “I’m better than you and you should agree with me”, because that’s not typically my mindset when I play. I just don’t like to mince words and I get annoyed fairly easily

That all being said, though, I probably am better than many and you should agree with me.
I'm better at making tonal reads than making reads based on points made, unless that person who's making those points has been mechanically locked scum
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:05 am

Post by fwogcarf »

In post 261, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Did anyone else polish their banana today?
Yes

Moldy bananas are the best kinds of bananas to polish
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:05 am

Post by fwogcarf »

In post 262, bob3141 wrote:@drew na what i meant was that it was intended to try and sort lucky.
I'd be willing to give them a pass for today
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:09 am

Post by osuka »

In post 271, fwogcarf wrote:
In post 258, osuka wrote:
In post 254, fwogcarf wrote:Osuka's tone is horrible and a good reason to scumread for. He taunts Bob for half the time while also giving out points that i can somewhat agree with. But like I said before, his attitude of "I'm better than you, so agree with my points" is worse than Bob's own anger imo.
Why is my tone a good reason to scumread me? You really should know that 1. I’m not being nearly as big an ass as I can be, and most importantly 2. I can be an ass regardless of alignment.

I’m actually a little surprised that I come across as “I’m better than you and you should agree with me”, because that’s not typically my mindset when I play. I just don’t like to mince words and I get annoyed fairly easily

That all being said, though, I probably am better than many and you should agree with me.
I'm better at making tonal reads than making reads based on points made, unless that person who's making those points has been mechanically locked scum
is this really all that accurate though? Most people i've played with don't really change tone very frequently based on alignment, but they
do
change thought process and game behavior


"I would also like to reiterate my claim that Osuka is sort of obviously town" - rc about scumsuka
"don't tell anyone, but there's a reason why you're one of my favourite people to mod for" - datisi

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