Newbie 2012 - Game Over

[ItalianoVD]

@ Everyone:

1) What is your experience with playing mafia?
2) Do you prefer playing town or scum?
3) What do you think of the Policy lynch of Lynch All Lurkers?

Well I’ve played the wolf game variation on a boxing forum I’ve been a member of since probably 2006, but this would be my second actual mafiascum.net game.

I prefer being town/villager because I like trying to

find

the puzzle piece instead of having it.

Note completely sure of the policy per se, but I’m always of the opinion that if you seem disinterested and don’t contribute you shouldn’t have signed up to play and hence I have no problem lynching.

[Ydrasse]

i really like 45 and 48 from 72offsuit, particularly 45? doctorpepper from what i see didn't answer it but i think it might be good to hear doctorpepper explain what they think 72offsuit gains from pushing on them. i presume it would be to discredit doctorpepper, but given that in 39 doctorpepper said they were already finding 72 scummy i'd like to hear the why behind it all.

Hey everyone. I'm coming in witH the two following questions that I would like all to answer please. Mostly for fun since it's so early in the game.

1) Random guess or analysis of what we have so far, take a crack at the scumteam. Who is the mafia team in this game?
2) If you were mafia in this game, who would you like to be your partner, or who would most likely be your partner.

i think that so far, doctorpepper's pinged me because they seemed to jump on the defensive when it came to 72 (@doctorpepper, i'd still like to hear why you thought 72 was scummy), and then you as well. your second question in particular set me off a bit too when i read it earlier, because i don't really get why you think it's a good one despite your explanation? also, i guess that asking number one is a baseline sort of thing that i could see as a scum player asking in an effort to seem helpful/game-solvey. it doesn't seem to have too much weight towards scumhunting behind it right now.

dwelling on the second question, i can only think that later down the line it might help to go back if someone flips and see who they said, but there could be a myriad of reasons why and i don't think that it's a rewarding enough question to think too hard upon.

VOTE: TheThirteenthJT

(REGARDLESS. you for another god-hammer and fun game in 2009!)

[Ydrasse]

other than that:

unowen: why did you put jt as your second scum option? (58)
pii: who do you think is scum, if you think italiano's post is nai? (65)
guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)
walter: why did you put doctorpepper as your second scum option? (69)

okay, i think i should be caught up now w the thread and i'll be around a bit to talk!

[WaltertheDunce10]

To me, doctor pepper has been reactionary in his responses.

[ItalianoVD]

I have a question for my voters: DoctorPepper and UNOwen

Even though I am a noob to this version of the game and on this forum, it’s pretty normal and common in scumming/wolfing 101 to not bring any undue and unnecessary attention to yourself. It pretty much puts a target on your back. I don’t know the meta of this site yet, but that seems like something that will never change.

So my question is if I was scum what would be the benefit to me and/or my partner (whether they were a noob or experienced) to put such a blatant target on my back and possibly their back for attempting to “protect” me. If there is a benefit I don’t know about, that’s why I’m asking.

[TheThirteenthJT]

Ydrasse while your right the first question isn't really scumhunting, don't we all want to say we solved the game day 1? Bragging rights! That's why I said it's mostly a fun question.

As to the second one, I'm experimenting with RQS and I think it is a valid questions to ask this early in the game. Like I said, I have reasons for it and want to see how well it serves me. And it's not so much relatied to looking back at it down the road. More of a now reason. And directly related to question number 1, the fun part of question number two for scum would be looking back at engame and having been bold to actually put your partner down here would incredible for them. Bragging rights!

[ItalianoVD]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

[TheThirteenthJT]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

Even though I find it scummy as well, I doubt both mafia would use the same point to push you early game. One of them to me is being truthful.

Where do I fall in your reads? And Walter?

[Micc]

Everyone has confirmed. The deadline for Day 1 has been unpaused.

Votecount 1.02

ItalianoVD (2) -

DoctorPepper, UNOwen

TheThirteenthJT (2) -

GuiltyLion, Ydrasse

Ydrasse (1) -

WaltertheDunce10

WaltertheDunce10 (1) -

72offsuit

DoctorPepper (1) -

TheThirteenthJT

Not Voting (2) -

piisirrational, ItalianoVD

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to Eliminate.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-06-28 20:00:00).

[TheThirteenthJT]

Also are your scumreads not enough to vote?

[ItalianoVD]

Pretty much everyone who saw my initial post for what it was seems the likeliest to be town so far to me. GuiltyLion, Ydrasse, 72 and pii. I’ve already mentioned my two top scumreads. (my voters)

Besides I’d love to believe I could work with Hobbes to find these scum and eventually solve this game, eh?

Even though I find it scummy as well, I doubt both mafia would use the same point to push you early game. One of them to me is being truthful.

Where do I fall in your reads? And Walter?

Oh man I knew I forgot someone. You were the other one that made the same point as the others, my mistake. I agree that it more than likely wouldn’t be both scum voting for me, so I’m leaning more towards UNOwen being scum than DoctorPepper. DoctorPepper being the SE though doesn’t rule out him out for me.

Walter I’m not sure of yet. I’m gonna go read all of his posts again and see if anything stands out.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh yeah by the way

VOTE: UNOwen

[ItalianoVD]

After seeing the vote count I need to read everything again to see what JT did or said that has em at 2 votes.

[DoctorPepper]

This is a newbie, and with newbie games come the misconception of "scum want to push easy mislynches". The last newbie game I played, I won as scum not by pushing for mislynches but because I intentionally stayed under the radar. I hard defended the day 1 mislynch, knowing full well that it will flip town. The rest of the mislynches I joined but I never drove the wagon, I found flimsy reasons to do it. So Italiano, while I don't think it automatically means you're scummy, it's odd that you're painting it as such because I am pushing for your mislynch

I mean I agree, being reactionary and painting a target on your back isn't a good way to play scum. That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't do it.
In fact that's weird that you're scum reading people just because they're voting you. If either of us were scum, why did we single you out as the mislynch of the day?

[DoctorPepper]

So DoctorPepper and UNOwen voting for me on day one without explanation. Seems pretty convenient. You two just shot up my scum read list.

Plus this is a huge discredit.

[DoctorPepper]

@ydrasse

I think I answered it in my post 50? Where scum would want to discredit other players? In an attempt to drive townies to that player or potentially buddy up to ther players the other is attacking.

I called it as discrediting because e moving past RVS is being painted as "shallow" and "looking townie"

[ItalianoVD]

This is a newbie, and with newbie games come the misconception of "scum want to push easy mislynches". The last newbie game I played, I won as scum not by pushing for mislynches but because I intentionally stayed under the radar. I hard defended the day 1 mislynch, knowing full well that it will flip town. The rest of the mislynches I joined but I never drove the wagon, I found flimsy reasons to do it. So Italiano, while I don't think it automatically means you're scummy, it's odd that you're painting it as such because I am pushing for your mislynch.

I’m not familiar with that meta, but I can’t just completely throw out that thought process because I know you didn’t say that, but my point is if that

I mean I agree, being reactionary and painting a target on your back isn't a good way to play scum.

That doesn't necessarily mean that you won't do it.

This is very true and you can’t rule out that possibility. But I promise you that in only my second game I am definitely not be bold enough to make a move like that.

In fact that's weird that you're scum reading people just because they're voting you.

Why? I don’t think it’s weird at all imo. If a player knows that they are townie then to me it’s logical for them to think that the people voting for them is suspicious, especially when the reasoning is somewhat weak. As a matter of fact I think scum would refrain from revenge voting and would be more inclined to either look elsewhere or try to befriend their voter(s). Again I’m not familiar with the site’s meta and how newbie games go, but I assume things are the same and that’s the information I go by.

If either of us were scum, why did we single you out as the mislynch of the day?

If your vote was random and if UNOwen’s vote was random then I wouldn’t have had a problem with it, but because your vote was specifically due to my RVS vote and shortly after UNOwen piggybacking off of that my suspicions went up. Hence the reason why I said you two seemed opportunistic two find a reason for mislynch.

[DoctorPepper]

Italiano, that assumes that I know for sure you're a mislynch

Even assuming you're town, it's equally valid for me to think you're scum because of your actions.

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not familiar with that meta, but I can’t just completely throw out that thought process because I know you didn’t say that, but my point is if that

Arghh that’s supposed to say

I’m not familiar with that meta, but I can’t just completely throw out that thought process because you think I’m targeting you.

you can disregard the rest of that.

[ItalianoVD]

Italiano, that assumes that I know for sure you're a mislynch

I’m not speaking for you. I’m speaking for myself and I know it’d be a mislynch so that’s the information I’m going off of in my evaluating. I will interact with more of the players so I can try to solidify my other reads, but my reads for you and UNOwen are where they are for now.

Even assuming you're town, it's equally valid for me to think you're scum because of your actions.

But townie do stupid scummy things sometimes right so basing your reads on just actions seems off target. Scum generally don’t do scummy things unless they slip up? But I’m guessing in newbie games slip ups are more common, so there’s that, lol.

[DoctorPepper]

Strangely enough you remind me of the townies I played with in my last newbie.

[GuiltyLion]

I called it artificial because that what it looks like. Basically I need a reason to start a push on someone to make myself useful to the town on page one, get early scumhunting credit and zoom out. I've seen this done before and always pings me early in games. Both Doctorpepper and Uno have done this with what I found to be a lol vote by Italiano.

Now don't get me wrong. Early game voting is always a crapshoot. So since Italiano was receiving early game pressure, I want to pressure the counterside and see reactions as well. Thus my vote.

You didn't really answer the heart of my question though, let me try again. There are two possible worlds based on DoctorPepper's alignment

1) DoctorPepper is town, and pushed Italiano's vote because they genuinely thought it was a bad entrance/RVS vote
2) DoctorPepper is scum, and used Italiano's vote as a reason to start a fake push and pretend to be scum hunting

Without having any information, the odds of world 1 are 75% (assuming a town POV), and the odds of world 2 are 25%.

You're saying it looks like world two, but I'm asking

why

. What specifically about the way DoctorPepper pushed it makes you think it is more likely fake than not? Because while it certainly

could

be fake, I don't see a good reason to think it's likely that it is.

[GuiltyLion]

So DoctorPepper and UNOwen voting for me on day one without explanation. Seems pretty convenient. You two just shot up my scum read list.

this isn't really an inspiring post

[GuiltyLion]

Even though I find it scummy as well, I doubt both mafia would use the same point to push you early game. One of them to me is being truthful.

I agree that it more than likely wouldn’t be both scum voting for me, so I’m leaning more towards UNOwen being scum than DoctorPepper. DoctorPepper being the SE though doesn’t rule out him out for me.

Both of these quotes kinda sum up why the whole idea is flawed to begin with

if you think Action A is scum-indicative but you have two people who committed Action A and you also think one of them is Town, then it follows that Action A by itself cannot be something that you consider scum-indicative, because town literally also did it.

[GuiltyLion]

guiltylion: why do you have the trs that you do? (63)

would it be okay if I just lazily said that I've played somewhere in the range of 60-70+ games at least on site and altogether their posts and behavior so far vibe town to me? Given that most players are town it only takes a few really genuine sounding thought processes and attempts to sort in order to move someone into my 'prob don't want to lynch today' pile