Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

UNVOTE:

I’m going to need more from you than this, that’s for sure.

[Datisi]

which brings me back to asking why are you singling me out like that, acting as if they didn't have a townread on me at all. (and like, i'm going with the assumption that someone's reads in the later part of the day trump those in the earlier part.)

I’m not just singling you out. But you’re voting Dunn while thinking everything is good and dandy when you were so obviously wrong D1 and you don’t seem to even want to re-evaluate what happened. I would say that applies to a lot of the Dunn voters who’ve remained where they are actually. And you were vocal and wrong - and seemed smug about it. You should feel the need to re-read and make some arguments and you’ve made a basic one about Dunn and that’s it. Do you agree with RLotus that there’s few chances of there being Scum on the Italiano wagon? Do you really believe that’s the universe we’re in right now? And what are the rest of your reads?

it looked like you were singling me out in 1779 with an argument that i couldn't make sense of (bc rtp's read on both me and baltar was similar later in the day). ok, i was wrong day on day one. i partly did reevaluate - dunn's post on midway looks bad with italiano's flip, dunn's read on italiano, and dunn's amount of effort spent in trying to convince others of that read on italiano (zero), which sunk them lower than the previous "lol lurk coinflip". you're making assumptions on how i play. i think we need *more* info right now rather than rehashing the old - let's see the newcomers catch up, and let's put some pressure on the person i find suspicious.

here's a take: i don't have a clue. i'm a moron for vca on best of days, and here i feel like both sides of the argument could be made fairly easily - scum voted bc italiano misyeet vs scum didn't vote bc didn't wanna get on a dirty misyeet wagon. i don't know which one is true, i'm not gonna pretend i do. i don't solve like that, i'm going to be looking at individual actions rather than trying to big brain the amount of scum on or off wagon.

like, i'm probably gonna go back and reskim parts of d1 to get a better idea of what might have happened. but i'm also not going to wait to push things i find suspicious *right now* - as soon as there's no lolhammer cutting the day short, there is no downside to pressuring dunn now.

if you think my arguments were bad, fine, say that and let's discuss it, but i don't feel like that's the argument you're making?

What is there to discuss? Italiano is dead and it’s in large part because of you. So unless you want to actually express some more detailed reads all around, why would I not put you on the spot? You deserve it.

you didn't like my push on italiano. ok. italiano flipped green i was wrong. ok no shit. i'm asking how/why you're reading it as scum shitpush vs town genuinepush. like i'm not saying i shouldn't be put on the spot. i'm asking to see your thought process.

[Datisi]

andre, can you talk to me how 1810 follows into a green crayons vote? like i feel like i'm hearing you say that the wagon was pushed/voted by scum, and you're talking about scum sealing yesterday's outcome, i don't think green played a part in that at all?

[Andresvmb]

you didn't like my push on italiano. ok. italiano flipped green i was wrong. ok no shit. i'm asking how/why you're reading it as scum shitpush vs town genuinepush. like i'm not saying i shouldn't be put on the spot. i'm asking to see your thought process.

I just hate your smugness about it. I do. Green Crayons and VPB both expressed doubts (which btw makes me thing you’re the one with the genuine push and they’re the potential Scum), but I’m getting constantly annoyed about being in these games and not really being able to form a solid Town core early. I dislike that you didn’t re-evaluate there at all even after Italiano’s emotional content skyrocketed, and were so dismissive about the whole thing.

[Andresvmb]

i don't think green played a part in that at all?

If I remember correctly, RTP’s strongest SR was GC, and they were in most of their solves.

[Andresvmb]

room-temperature take: italiano is hoping that the "i give up" ate makes townies defend him / reconsider

also if he flips scum i'd bet good

money

brownie points that he's being bussed rn

Yeah I mean that’s what bothered me but why I asked for his explanation re town POV.

Green Crayons might not have voted Italiano, but they definitely left themselves open. And they expressed a TR at times but they were happy to discredit at others as well.

[Andresvmb]

Post 1378 and Post 1429 echoed suspicions i had about RTP at the time.

i've put a pause on my RTP suspicions for reasons, so this is a "other player voiced reasons to suspect RTP that mirrored my own reasons" read

And once Italiano becomes a near certainty, this comes out? And you’re not suspicious?

[Green Crayons]

i preferred elements over VD, but still had them both on town side of the line. i would've voted either to avoid no elim, obviously.

[Green Crayons]

Post 1378 and Post 1429 echoed suspicions i had about RTP at the time.

i've put a pause on my RTP suspicions for reasons, so this is a "other player voiced reasons to suspect RTP that mirrored my own reasons" read

And once Italiano becomes a near certainty, this comes out? And you’re not suspicious?

this was in reference to RTP backing off of his GC vote

I thought he had spotted something in the thread which i think is obvious

[Datisi]

you didn't like my push on italiano. ok. italiano flipped green i was wrong. ok no shit. i'm asking how/why you're reading it as scum shitpush vs town genuinepush. like i'm not saying i shouldn't be put on the spot. i'm asking to see your thought process.

I just hate your smugness about it. I do. Green Crayons and VPB both expressed doubts (which btw makes me thing you’re the one with the genuine push and they’re the potential Scum), but I’m getting constantly annoyed about being in these games and not really being able to form a solid Town core early. I dislike that you didn’t re-evaluate there at all even after Italiano’s emotional content skyrocketed, and were so dismissive about the whole thing.

ok so i was working under the assumption that you hating my smugness = scumreading it but now i'm confused. can you lay out what's your read on me right now?

here's the thing, i'm horrible at reading emotions. i've lost games because i'd look at someone who was being emotional and i'd townread it and those people would sometimes turn out to be scum and i try really really hard to consciously ignore ~emotional stuff~ when forming my reads because i am ass at evaluating the genuiness of it.

i don't think green played a part in that at all?

If I remember correctly, RTP’s strongest SR was GC, and they were in most of their solves.

i'm thinking about their second(?) most recent poe, which was i think 5 people, and green wasn't in it
actually let me check fuck
ok yeah i'm thinking of 1580 ok i remember something at least

but i think my question still stands. you seem to insist on going back and keep calling the wagon bad - who do you think is the scum on it then?

pedits will be read later
please let me post

[Green Crayons]

I'm also happy with a maxwell vote, especially with the RTP town flip.

This, btw, is gross and nonsensical

yup, actually. i was only looking at the RTP flip, forgot to consider that RTP was probably scum killed.

[Green Crayons]

well, yup on the nonsensical. not the gross part.

[maxwell]

I...actually like that you admit it didn't make sense.

[Andresvmb]

ok so i was working under the assumption that you hating my smugness = scumreading it but now i'm confused. can you lay out what's your read on me right now?

I’m skeptical that you have the game right, I don’t think Dunn will flip Scum, and I’m just generally annoyed that there’s so much... passivity in this game. I don’t have you as Scum right now. But I don’t like arguments that are easily disproven either. Trying to discredit me by making an argument that was false IS annoying. I am not just blindly going to follow along here. I want to see people be aggressive and push to figure out what’s going on. 6 votes so quickly on Dunn - does that seem like an engaged Town to you?

[Andresvmb]

but i think my question still stands. you seem to insist on going back and keep calling the wagon bad - who do you think is the scum on it then?

I don’t want to reveal this just yet. We need more content - and I’m trying to avoid getting into a shit fight with everybody because that doesn’t help either.

[Andresvmb]

i preferred elements over VD, but still had them both on town side of the line. i would've voted either to avoid no elim, obviously.

So who is Scum to you then?

[Datisi]

Post 1378 and Post 1429 echoed suspicions i had about RTP at the time.

i've put a pause on my RTP suspicions for reasons, so this is a "other player voiced reasons to suspect RTP that mirrored my own reasons" read

And once Italiano becomes a near certainty, this comes out? And you’re not suspicious?

no? wasn't green like consistently calling italiano town throughout most of (the important/relevant part of) d1?

and like, as green was a possible wagon at some point close to eod1 (fuck if i remember at which point), i kept an eye out on possible opportunistically-on-italiano posts, i don't remember thinking i saw any. that quote does look ~ehhh when quoted by itself, i'll have to reread the context around it to see what i was thinking. which is gonna happen later bc i am not in the brainspace right now. also dinner. cheers.

[maxwell]

midwaybear goes from townleaning Italiano in 414 to being willing to elim him in 640. I don't think the change in stance is inherently scummy but looking in his ISO I can't find a good reason for his read to have shifted, there never seems to be an actual case on Italiano.

[Green Crayons]

i preferred elements over VD, but still had them both on town side of the line. i would've voted either to avoid no elim, obviously.

So who is Scum to you then?

i was riding high on my maxwell theory until about five minutes ago

Dunn and Duchess slot still in my elim pool

I'll reread Lotus's, midway's, and Elements' ISOs later today, as i think they were on the lower end of my town reads, but i might be confusing midway and andre

[midwaybear]

I can't find a good reason for his read to have shifted

I townread Italiano for 72 where he votes VPB for a joke scumclaim. I thought Italiano scum would try to make his votes look better, so I townleaned him for that. When he revealed that it was a reaction test, I took away the townlean because it then seemed like something that was equally likely to come from either alignments.
His later actions also seemed scummy/not townie to me, so I ended up voting him. Agree that the self hammer was sooo bad

[maxwell]

What about his later actions seemed scummy?

[midwaybear]

I'm not sure. I actually voted him because I saw that he was a viable wagon from 1602.
I was still townreading Elements, and didn't really have an opinion on GC at the time.

[maxwell]

VOTE: midwaybear again, this time with emphasis

[Momrangal]

Ugh

Why did everyone appear when I was sleeps

[Momrangal]

So the amish tell is when you badmouth your predecessors actions, but that's not what you do here

The Amish tell is when the replacement show's high levels of awareness of what their predecessor is doing while not having much of a handle of the game state. Its more than just bad mouthing the predecessor and the tell includes seemingly notable opinion on what their predec was doing. The idea is that scum are most likely going to iso their predecessor to see how messed up they are

So, yes. You were getting ready to make a push against me with the amish tell in mind

Hi andres~

Hey Mom. I want the same as Dunn actually - some sort of explanation as to why you thought Battle Mage’s posts were Scummy. Because I actually didn’t agree.

I already stated, it was a joke on the amish tell itself. I was introduced to it in the first game I had repped into, which was pretty heavy in replacements. The game was dark souls, and from memory, baltazar was the one who used the tell in that game