Micro 1018: The King's New Robes | Game Over

[Pink Panthers]

VOTE: ArcAngel9

She called NM a liar for claim but made no CC.

Hoppy and I are in agreement about this.

Her being the best lim.

[VFP]

Every night you may target a player. You will receive a suit which is a copy of that player's role, of which you will be informed of.
The suit will cause you to reveal as whatever the suit shows if you either have your role revealed or die. A player may not receive a 2nd suit once they already have one, however the Actress has an exception that allows them to override their current suit.

So if NM is scum and for example targeted you (Pink) then they flip town, right?

[Pink Panthers]

Flips of town players will be real UNLESS they were targeted by a night action that would change their flip to fake. they would be informed of this and nobody has claimed this

The scum actress role will always flip as town but will be accompanied by scum killing someone as scum only get vengeful shots and not nightkills
The scum princess role we're checking with DK since me/Enchant aren't sure- but in either case it would be accompanied by a vengeful shot

Mafia could chose not to use their vengeful shot, but given we have an otherwise unremovable conf.town, you would always shoot them

-Hop

[Pink Panthers]

VOTE: ArcAngel9

She called NM a liar for claim but made no CC.

Hoppy and I are in agreement about this.

Her being the best lim.

to clarify we're on the same page- she did claim, but her claimed role can easily exist with the role that he claimed

-Hop

[VFP]

Flips of town players will be real UNLESS they were targeted by a night action that would change their flip to fake. they would be informed of this and nobody has claimed this

The scum actress role will always flip as town but will be accompanied by scum killing someone as scum only get vengeful shots and not nightkills
The scum princess role we're checking with DK since me/Enchant aren't sure- but in either case it would be accompanied by a vengeful shot

Mafia could chose not to use their vengeful shot, but given we have an otherwise unremovable conf.town, you would always shoot them

-Hop

So NM is still possibly scum, just very unlikely. Okay that makes sense for now I guess.

[Pink Panthers]

Every night you may target a player. You will receive a suit which is a copy of that player's role, of which you will be informed of.
The suit will cause you to reveal as whatever the suit shows if you either have your role revealed or die. A player may not receive a 2nd suit once they already have one, however the Actress has an exception that allows them to override their current suit.

So if NM is scum and for example targeted you (Pink) then they flip town, right?

OIC, well it would make sense since the only one who’s actually scumpinging me right now is AA9, so that would be awesome if we won this on D2.

[Rockhopper]

in the scenario of Arc!scum who would you read as more likely town/scum?

-Hop

Town- Gamma Faria, VFP based on interactions
Scum- NM based on mechanics

Why i am not Town in this situation?
Why NM mafia based on mechanics?

Conftowns excluded.

The theory I had in mind was that Arc fakeclaimed oracle and bussed NM as an attempt to convince town the setup was indeed seamstress/seamstress who disguised each other since it would have looked really bad for NM otherwise.

why are you still considering NM as possible scum?

-Hop

Scum only with Arc.

That's the only reason I can think of for why she would have done that as scum.
And I don't really believe her claim because I find it unlikely that the setup is {actress,seamstress}

[Pink Panthers]

Flips of town players will be real UNLESS they were targeted by a night action that would change their flip to fake. they would be informed of this and nobody has claimed this

The scum actress role will always flip as town but will be accompanied by scum killing someone as scum only get vengeful shots and not nightkills
The scum princess role we're checking with DK since me/Enchant aren't sure- but in either case it would be accompanied by a vengeful shot

Mafia could chose not to use their vengeful shot, but given we have an otherwise unremovable conf.town, you would always shoot them

-Hop

I’m so glad we’re hydraing. <3

[Enchant]

in the scenario of Arc!scum who would you read as more likely town/scum?

-Hop

Town- Gamma Faria, VFP based on interactions
Scum- NM based on mechanics

Why i am not Town in this situation?
Why NM mafia based on mechanics?

Conftowns excluded.

The theory I had in mind was that Arc fakeclaimed oracle and bussed NM as an attempt to convince town the setup was indeed seamstress/seamstress who disguised each other since it would have looked really bad for NM otherwise.

why are you still considering NM as possible scum?

-Hop

Scum only with Arc.

That's the only reason I can think of for why she would have done that as scum.
And I don't really believe her claim because I find it unlikely that the setup is {actress,seamstress}

Possible we have this.


We in Actress+Actress world, which include only one Oracle (me).

When NM claimed Oracle, mafia already assumed him as fake one, because of how this was ugly. It doesh't need to put any effort to actually claim Oracle, call NM liar (which is in fact truth) and push him to death, without so many suspicious. Even if plan somehow fails, there's no way to disapprove Arc-claim mechanically, as there's possible up to 3 Oracles, and also it gives town-points for "Oh she CCed him, why would mafia do that". It explains why Arc was so confident NM is lying.


Arc, who you suspect and why?

[ArcAngel9]

DkKoba

Town Mystic

You are a Town Mystic.

Every night, you may choose a player.

Upon your death, the player you chose will have their role publicly revealed. If the chosen player has a suit, the suit will show instead.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. Good Luck.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment,

as well as your n0 action.

ArcAngel9

and

Enchant

, who did you target on N1?

~

Faria

I have targetted Enchant.

I won’t really have time to post much but I can say I did approve massclaiming when asked
Also I kinda think ArcAngel is sus

~Gamma

Why? Because I caught with you a lie? Your discord story is one-sided. You seem to want to push it back because I may have already smelled you correctly.

VOTE: Gamma Faria

Lol! What lie btw??

~

Faria

Faria said that they want to discuss with Gamma first before confirming on the mass claim and after few posts they just claimed VT. When I asked about it. I became a suspect.

would you deny this?

For the last time and my time zone is UTC+6, so calculate yourself!

Spoiler: On Your Face!

For the last time, we are over this topic multiple times already. We have moved on but you're the one still hanging on this important discussion and trying to prove so damn hard.
Even what you're saying is true, noone actually cares. How are we supposed to know that you were talking to your hydra partner outside the game? I am not sure if that is even allowed in the game.

Requesting @Mod to look into this.

POE={

Rockhopper

>

ArcAngel9

>

VFP

}

VOTE: Rockhopper

~

Faria

Is that your scum list?

VOTE: NM

In what world does Arc lie here?

Oh, I thought you scumslipped, nevermind.
I lied about having a seamstress suit, Arc.

VOTE: Pink Panthers

What why pink panthers? His role is literally confirmed by the mod.

There can only be 1 mystic, right?

Not necessarily!!

Mafia Actress x2, D1 Town Bride, Town Mystic, Vanilla Townie x5
Mafia Seamstress, Mafia Actress, D1 Town Bride,

Town Mystic x2

, Vanilla Townie x4
Mafia Seamstress x2, D1 Town Bride, Town Mystic x3, Vanilla Townie x3

If NM is telling truth, we should lynch Enchant. His oracle claim is bird shit then.

NM is probably town.

@VFP - what changed for you to go from NM town > voting NM there? There was no setup related reasons for him to be lying. Any of (town NM+town Arc, town NM+scum Arc, scum NM+town Arc, scum NM + scum Arc) are all possible.

Arc - did you think the bride is 100% at this point? that feels like a weird overlooking at this stage
Arc - why did you bold the 2 mystics setup & assume NM was lying when there were 3 mystic claims and it could have been the 3 mystic setup? bolding the 2 specifically is part of this question

Faria quoting private chat with timestamps feels like the kind of thing DK might modkill for.

You have multiple quotes and asking multiple questions at the same time.

Bride is obviously town. How are you not aware of this? and what is there to overlook here?
I don't recall why I didn't bold the 3 mystics, I thought I did but I did mention it in my post. It was not intentional.

Arc - why did you wait until after the bride using their action (which i think they said they planned to do post massclaim) to change your claim? there's an obvious incentive for scum you to switch there when you know it can't be proven false

-Hop

I didn't care about the bride's action. I was not ready for the mass claim. I counterclaimed Not_Mafia only when he denied to share the N0 action. I felt that he was definitely lying there because a real mason wouldn't have any reason to hold back about night target.

Targeted ActionDan.

NM is not mafia, because he didn't shot anyone. He is also not Oracle, because there should be reveal. Of course it's possible he is mafia/Oracle who decided to do nothing... Do you believe NM will not shoting when he can and not using ability when he can? Don't answer on this one, and assume him as VT.

Why? What was your motive?

Targeted ActionDan.

NM is not mafia, because he didn't shot anyone. He is also not Oracle, because there should be reveal. Of course it's possible he is mafia/Oracle who decided to do nothing... Do you believe NM will not shoting when he can and not using ability when he can? Don't answer on this one, and assume him as VT.

The role pm states that scum on death

may

use their 1 shot vengeful ability, no?
{Arc, NM} is still possible because scum choosing seamstress just to confuse town with an extra oracle seems unlikely, with the potential briding element.
Does NM usually fakeclaim as town just for the lulz?

Explain How I and NM are possible scum here? He was a lousy townie and screwed up this town. I caught him on his lie. Do you think anyone would do such a thing as a scum?

how was it a CC? what do you mean

Arc CC NM.
And Arc was right.

Of course I am damn right.

how was it a CC? what do you mean

Arc CC NM.
And Arc was right.

Arc didn't counterclaim NM, they said they thought one oracle might not be oracle.

I don't get how you're reading this as though one of them had to be oracle and exactly one and hence it's a counterclaim. can you explain this

bearing in mind that scum!arc would

know

that NM was fakeclaiming because scum Arc would know there's 1 oracle (assuming Enchant is only oracle), so isn't being right there a scumtell when scum would know it's fake but town don't have as good of a reason to see it as fake?

-Hop

Are you even reading the game? So If i didn't counter claim, what do you think my claim was about?

I never claimed oracle. I claimed Town mystic after Not_Mafia confirmed his claim as a mystic.

And where the hell this is oracle role? I don't even see it in the setup. Why are we evening using a term that not even in the setup list.

[Enchant]

Arc, why you targeted me?

[Hopkirk]

Bride is obviously town. How are you not aware of this? and what is there to overlook here?
I don't recall why I didn't bold the 3 mystics, I thought I did but I did mention it in my post. It was not intentional.

To rephrase the first part - the bride being 100% meaning 100% accurate. Since you said our role was confirmed by the mod either you didn't realize how the bride worked at this point, or were pretending you didn't
Second part - Notmafia/i think others mentioned this yesterday as a sus point. bolding the 2 mystics as TMIing the setup which fits with being confident on NM being scum (i don't get the read)

Scum have a strong incentive to do what you did (claiming VT prior to the bride then claiming mystic to widen that pool) which is why you should care about the bride's action as town - because if you're town you should know mafia would do what you're currently doing to advance their interests

--
you didn't counterclaim because you were clear that 3 oracles could exist. it's only a counterclaim if your roles can't exist together.i am clearly aware of what you claim was about
oracle is what Enchant wanted us to call mystic

-Hop

[Enchant]

Bride is obviously town. How are you not aware of this? and what is there to overlook here?
I don't recall why I didn't bold the 3 mystics, I thought I did but I did mention it in my post. It was not intentional.

To rephrase the first part - the bride being 100% meaning 100% accurate. Since you said our role was confirmed by the mod either you didn't realize how the bride worked at this point, or were pretending you didn't
Second part - Notmafia/i think others mentioned this yesterday as a sus point. bolding the 2 mystics as TMIing the setup which fits with being confident on NM being scum (i don't get the read)

Scum have a strong incentive to do what you did (claiming VT prior to the bride then claiming mystic to widen that pool) which is why you should care about the bride's action as town - because if you're town you should know mafia would do what you're currently doing to advance their interests

--
you didn't counterclaim because you were clear that 3 oracles could exist. it's only a counterclaim if your roles can't exist together.i am clearly aware of what you claim was about
oracle is what Enchant wanted us to call mystic

-Hop

Who are you again

[ArcAngel9]

Not Mafia has been eliminated, they appear to have been:

Not_Mafia

Vanilla Townie

You are a Vanilla Townie.

You may utilize your vote in order to eliminate a player from the game every day.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. Good Luck.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Night 1 begins now and will end in (expired on 2021-07-06 13:27:15). Please submit all relevant night actions if applicable. I may accelerate the night if all players submit "fast night".

Pink Panthers will be required to check in by the end of the night, whether or not they have night actions or else they will be replaced as they were due for a prod before night started.

Why did NM fakeclaim then? Wtf was he thinking?

He's a lousy mafia player. He trolls and affects the game for everyone. This is his playstyle regardless of his faction.

Am I the only one not seeing ActionDan obvtown?

I read him NULL. He made zero contributions so far.

Blink once and there's a quick-elim.

I'm vibing with Hop's posting;

although why is your partner still under the impression the bride confirmed your slot. Did you not reply to them in discord

?

I'm more concerned that Arc thought NM had to be lying in that position only due NM's refusal to name his N0 target, than of Arc lying originally even though as PP has said, there is scum advantage to that after the bride was used. The progression from 258 to 263 to 272 feels slightly off since the original reason for going after NM changes from a belief in the certainty NM was lying to a high chance he was. If scum, the certainty in thinking NM isn't mystic could come from an actress that got a VT suit off him.

All that said,

VOTE: VFP

Terrible NM vote, and equally bad posting today. I also don't believe he's that ignorant of the setup in general.

NM has no reason to not share about the N0 action especially when he was told that it would benefit the town. He rejected it. And that's how i know that claim wasn't fitting together.

I believe Seamstress can't selftarget.


Arc very likely are Actress here.

Fakeclaiming before proposal and then "claiming true role" after with this excuse is what i expect from mafia who unlucky with visits and got simple VT suit which would give them away if proposal was made to them.

Very likely? What are you? A prophet. ? I am not even sure what visits you're referring to here. What is my connection with the bride proposal? Why are you trying to confuse everyone?

@Aa9, you are not allowed to tell another player to replace out.

You're not Mod. You're not allowed to lecture me here. Mod can send a PM about this if i am violating their rules.

VOTE: ArcAngel9

She called NM a liar for claim but made no CC.

Hoppy and I are in agreement about this.

Her being the best lim.

I couter claimed. You need to read the game and you're wrong.

in the scenario of Arc!scum who would you read as more likely town/scum?

-Hop

Town- Gamma Faria, VFP based on interactions
Scum- NM based on mechanics

Why i am not Town in this situation?
Why NM mafia based on mechanics?

Conftowns excluded.

The theory I had in mind was that Arc fakeclaimed oracle and bussed NM as an attempt to convince town the setup was indeed seamstress/seamstress who disguised each other since it would have looked really bad for NM otherwise.

why are you still considering NM as possible scum?

-Hop

Scum only with Arc.

That's the only reason I can think of for why she would have done that as scum.
And I don't really believe her claim because I find it unlikely that the setup is {actress,seamstress}

Possible we have this.


We in Actress+Actress world, which include only one Oracle (me).

When NM claimed Oracle, mafia already assumed him as fake one, because of how this was ugly. It doesh't need to put any effort to actually claim Oracle, call NM liar (which is in fact truth) and push him to death, without so many suspicious. Even if plan somehow fails, there's no way to disapprove Arc-claim mechanically, as there's possible up to 3 Oracles, and also it gives town-points for "Oh she CCed him, why would mafia do that". It explains why Arc was so confident NM is lying.


Arc, who you suspect and why?

My top suspects are

Enchant
RockHopper

VOTE: Enchant

[Pink Panthers]

Hop is one of my guys.

@Arc - so how exactly did you

catch

NM on a fakeclaim?

-Hop

[ArcAngel9]

Arc, why you targeted me?

Because you're scum.

Since day 1, you are doing everything but scum hunting.

[ArcAngel9]

Hop is one of my guys.

@Arc - so how exactly did you

catch

NM on a fakeclaim?

-Hop

Again, Read. It's fundamental. ISO my claim and read posts before.

[ArcAngel9]

Bride is obviously town. How are you not aware of this? and what is there to overlook here?
I don't recall why I didn't bold the 3 mystics, I thought I did but I did mention it in my post. It was not intentional.

To rephrase the first part - the bride being 100% meaning 100% accurate. Since you said our role was confirmed by the mod either you didn't realize how the bride worked at this point, or were pretending you didn't
Second part - Notmafia/i think others mentioned this yesterday as a sus point. bolding the 2 mystics as TMIing the setup which fits with being confident on NM being scum (i don't get the read)

Scum have a strong incentive to do what you did (claiming VT prior to the bride then claiming mystic to widen that pool) which is why you should care about the bride's action as town - because if you're town you should know mafia would do what you're currently doing to advance their interests

--
you didn't counterclaim because you were clear that 3 oracles could exist. it's only a counterclaim if your roles can't exist together.i am clearly aware of what you claim was about
oracle is what Enchant wanted us to call mystic

-Hop

Please stick to the term "Mystic"

this is exactly what enchant doing since day 1, he is either talking about setup or change terms or accuse people scum without contributing anything to the game.

[Pink Panthers]

There can only be 1 mystic, right?

Not necessarily!!

Mafia Actress x2, D1 Town Bride, Town Mystic, Vanilla Townie x5
Mafia Seamstress, Mafia Actress, D1 Town Bride,

Town Mystic x2

, Vanilla Townie x4
Mafia Seamstress x2, D1 Town Bride, Town Mystic x3, Vanilla Townie x3

If NM is telling truth, we should lynch Enchant. His oracle claim is bird shit then.

or there is Town Mystic X3 - i am not sure if there are three mystics then

I'm not lying

Then tell us what is your role?

Mystic

Wrong answer.

Hard Claim. I lied before.

I am Town Mystic. I targeted ActionDan on night 0

spoilers, i have been reading the game. you're acting like you know there was exactly 2 mystics in the game since that has to be true for it to be counterclaiming NM. despite knowing there could be three. why do you think you counterclaimed there and why were you confident there couldn't be 3 mystics?

-Hop

[Pink Panthers]

what's your read & thought process like on VFP Arc?

-Hop

[Enchant]

Arc, why you targeted me?

Because you're scum.

Since day 1, you are doing everything but scum hunting.

Another reason why Arc is not real Oracle. Because in this situation, using ability on other Oracle claim is bad move. I know you are Oracle OR Actress (who visited me and now will have disguise in case i target you), so it's waste and doesh't prove anything. You probably will say the same.

You didn't put many thoughts in who you point as your target, are you? Do you even read ability of other roles, before claim as them?

[Pink Panthers]

Eh, if Arc thinks she's the solo oracle then i think it's very reasonable to pick the other oracle

For someone who thinks there's one oracle (which is Arc's stated perspective if town) then they think the setup is actress/actress who picked suits n0. Assuming they picked different players, there's only around a (1-(6/7*5/6)) 29% chance that either of them managed to get their hands on an oracle suit

Although you claiming Oracle should move it more towards a world where scum!you would have an oracle suit, in that world your partner would also have a VT suit, so i think it's the most sensible action

-Hop

[Pink Panthers]

like in actress/actress worlds the oracle only does something if someone is claiming something and doesn't have that suit. presumably anyone claiming VT has either a VT suit, possibly but unlikely a mystic suit, or a bride suit and is sweating. So someone flipping VT from mystic tells us very little because scum would presumably play their claims around what they get.

anyone claiming mystic could have an oracle mystic (although bearing in mind it's a below 30% chance scum have this option), a VT suit, or a bride suite. the second two are scum indicative/confirmative to see on a flip from another mystic (who is confirmed oracle by the fact a flip is happening on their death) so it does give us information towards whether the other one is more/less likely to be true.

(in the world scum had two actresses who got one VT/one mystic then mystic picks don't really matter anyway as anyone will flip as their claimed role).

-Hop

[ActionDan]

I think the point being made is that if there's no reason to choose the other oracle claim because no matter what on D2 you're not getting anything out of it, regardless of setup (on D1 different story). If you target a VT claim, at least there is the potential for a seamstress to be revealed in the actress/seamstress world.

One more point about the setup that both you and rockhopper seem to believe is that a lone seamstress would suit a townie, and at least in rockhoppers case, this idea seems to be coloring rockhopper's reads. There is a large downside to this. It allows town to determine much more precisely the amount of mystics in the setup. That is scum's one advantage and I highly doubt they'd give it up so easily.

[Enchant]

No. Again.

Either we have Oracle+Actress situation or Oracle+Oracle. Actress had 1n for disguise, and all roles are known, so she could pretend as anyone she please. So if Arc thought i am mafia, well, yes, she could, but it's again pointless move which does nothing and she should knew that as Oracle.

If we are in Oracle+Oracle, then there's Seamstress hiding and she can't disguise self, so we can actually catch her with reveal.