In post 6, mastina wrote:I was expecting to get different alignments from different games but I ended up with basically the same thing in all three games.
"basically the same", but not THE same. Because game #2 I am a survivor, that needs scum dead in a way that makes it basically a Town Survivor, just...not technically town.
Notice that in response to Almost50, I didn't say "I'm town in all 3 games"; I said "I'm not scum at all". Because I
couldn't
say I was town in all 3 games because technically speaking I'm not even though the type of nontown I am is basically town anyway.
I said I wasn't scum at all because I'm in fact, not scum in any game.
In post 219, mastina wrote:BTW I can doubly prove that I am not scum in all 3 games.
The first proof is that I didn't know that this this game had secret alts or readable pts as a Mechanic.
Because my role pm was just three roles, no account info at all.
The second proof?
I am phoneposting at work.
I work 4//7 days.
With a phone that is glitchy.
It literally keeps spazzing out, proof being: this post.
I can't be any scum accounts which posts while I am at work.
Here is a (I corrected the phone-induced errors of the original) hard-'town'slip. (It's not a townslip because I'm not town but I don't have a better term to use. It's like an anti-scumslip in that it's proof that I cannot be scum, but not proof that I am town.)
Basically, I was at work, posting with the game open for the first time, on my phone.
I saw people referencing secret alts and scum/masons, with them being able to post in a PT. (I was additionally under the impression that said PT(s) were public, readable by people not able to post in it.)
I, mistakenly, believed that to be something that applied to all three games.
As in, game #2 and game #1 would
also
have secret alts for the scumteam.
This is, apparently, not actually the case--which I would know if I had drawn scum in either game 1 or game 2.
But I didn't know that the secret alts were a specific mechanic to game #3 because I drew uninformed in all three games.
Once more, though, you may note the usage: "prove that I am not scum", rather than 'prove that I am town'.
Because, if it was necessary, I wanted to leave it open for the chance for me to claim 3p if need be, if either of the two claim-conditions happened to come true (which the second one did).
I didn't say that *I* was town here, I just said that I wanted a triple town win from killing all the scum in all the games. Which is true; I want all the scum dead in all the games and that should generate a triple town win since I can in fact win with the town in spite of technically not being town due to basically still being town.
In post 356, mastina wrote:And it should be painfully obvious that, no, I do not in fact have alt account access. And that, no, I do not have any scumgames here.
I don't have any scumgames here, but I didn't say "I have 3 towngames". (Since again, technically not a towngame even tho it pragmatically speaking is one.)
In post 608, mastina wrote:Phoneposting, so I'll have more to say when home, but:
2:
I an hard counterclaiming bulletproof in game two.
So Meg is scum there, too. I can and will explain when home.
VOTE: MegAzumarill
In post 610, mastina wrote: In post 38, mastina wrote:BTW I should mention in the mini theme, my role has two parts. One part, I'd normally claim on D1, but due to the other half, I cannot. Basically, one half of my role loses utility if I claim either it or the other half, even though I normally would claim it. Phoneposting and this game's not my top priority right now, but I hope to post again later tonight.
Guess what role loses value when claimed? Bulletproof!
The other half is a very specific type of miller tho. I can explain better when not bloody phoneposting from a shitty ass glitchy phone.
I was hoping to draw a night kill in game two from not claiming either the bp or miller (because scum aren't going to shoot a miller), but hey, if Meg is going to out themselves as scum by claiming my role, I'll take dead scum over a failed shot on me.
In post 624, mastina wrote: In post 613, mastina wrote:Well I didn't read that far. I was reading offline and saw Meg claim my role, so I instantly logged in to counterclaim.
Vote stays as I think Meg is still scum even with a retraction of "it a s a joke".
Can explain when home why I think that Meg is scum in game two.
Suffice to say, you can fuck off if you think that I am scum in any of the games.
I'm not.
In post 627, mastina wrote: In post 443, T3 wrote:Mastina feels weird. It's like her posts don't have much depth.
"don't have much depth", my
ass
.
This is literally deeper reads than is physically possible in any other game.
Like, in any other game, you're reading things off of just the one game.
Here I am literally generating reads on
three
different games.
And I am giving reads and reasons for
all
of them.
I don't have the perfect ability to break down
every
game down game by game--but I'm as close as damn fucking possible on D1 of 2/3 of the games.
Reads don't get deeper than that.
In what way do you think they're shallow? Because I can fucking explain each and every single read I've got and surprise surprise! So far, most of my reads have been right in game three! And they are probably right in the other games more than they aren't, because I'm pretty fucking sure that this game's mechanic is the type of thing that I am MADE for solving. That I EXCEL at figuring out.
I'm also literally putting in more effort here than I've ever put into a game before--my
intention
was to draw the scum nightkill in game two, but failing that, I can still be nightkilled in game one, because I am being just that town. And yet, the scum can't actually shut me up, because I can't die in game two. Which is why I felt extra incentivized to try hard here. I can't die in game two, meaning that I can't TRULY die in ANY of the games, meaning that scum cannot get rid of me. (Well, barring a scum strongman in game two, which if it exists...shit. Hopefully not tho.
)
So you can fuck off with calling my reads lacking depth--they have more depth in
this
game than they have
ever
had in ANY prior game of mine.
Do you think that because you are scum in 2/3 and town in the third and thus you know me to be town in the two you are scum and are guessing the inverse for the game you aren't scum?
'Cause that's what this looks like to me!
In post 628, mastina wrote: For the record--this is what I saw before I stopped reading on my phone to log in. I didn't even read the entirety of the claim.
I just saw 'bulletproof' and '100% serious' and INSTANTLY scrolled up to hit the login button to counterclaim because there was no fucking chance in hell of there being two bulletproofs in a mini game in my opinion.
Even with it apparently being a joke, I think that Meg's scum
anyway
. There's multiple reasons for this. I've not read the game thread yet so not sure how the "it was a joke" came up, but. I don't think it was actually meant as a joke. I think that Meg was genuinely trying to get away with it, but decided to change it to a joke later.
I think that the claim was made with scum knowledge about the setup in setup #2 because of the things being claimed.
I think that Meg's claim was designed to get reactions--in hindsight, I shouldn't have claimed because it got the reaction it was looking for (I could've pushed Meg without claiming so probably should've but oh well, is too late now, hindsight 20/20), but I think that the claim was made basically as a way of testing the waters and seeing if Meg could fish out extra information about the town in game #2.
I genuinely think that the claim
came from a position of both scum information
, and scum agenda, in that it was designed to try and further the scum wincon in game #2.
Here, it takes some explaining, but: basically, I saw MegAzumarill claim a third party and claim bulletproof and my thought instantly jumped to, "MegAzumarill is scum in game #2 who has TMI" and was thus not joking.
I was in fact planning to draw nightkills in game #2 (again, being bulletproof and being basically a town survivor that needs scum dead, drawing scum kills to me is a GOOD thing because they couldn't kill me and it'd put the town in a better position). However, I saw MegAzumarill's claim as hard proof that Meg was informed scum in game #2.
You may notice again: "I'm not scum in any of the games". I'm in fact not scum in any of the games! But I didn't say town in all of them because while I might be basically-town in game #2 I am technically not town.
There was in fact depth to my reads tho because I was dead serious in all of them. I, again, was attempting to get
nightkilled
in game #2. As a bulletproof, who needs scum dead in order to win, I needed to be playing as if I was town and furthering the town wincon. Meaning that I needed to be as town as I've ever been before, townier than that in fact.
I do think that Ircher also TMI'd tho--Ircher said, "mastina is town in precisely 2/3 of the games". That was in fact right. But why those words instead of "mastina is scum in 1/3 of the games"? It feels like Ircher was saying exactly what he meant to say because he knew it'd be exactly the truth. He can point to
418 and say he was 100% correct--but him being 100% correct is actually
the problem
. He
shouldn't
have had any inkling of me being non-town-but-not-scum in game #2. Because again, I was powertowning, more than I've ever towned before.
In post 629, mastina wrote: In post 535, Almost50 wrote:Please explain to the class why a TOWN PLAYER IN GAME THREE would "intend" to tell the scum they are not a Mason??
As part of clearing me across all three games.
So basically.
I did not know about the mechanics in game #3 of there being secret alts on masons and mafias.
I thus also did not know that the mechanic was specific to
game three
.
I was on my phone at the time, so I couldn't delve into checking things more closely.
So I assumed that I, via not being scum in any of the games, had missed a core game mechanic where
every
scum/mason in
every
game had a secret alt and a public PT to talk in.
Under that assumption, I could clear myself as being not scum in any of the three games by specifying that I did not receive any alt account info or PT links in my role PMs. The process would, unfortunately, out me as not a mason in game #3...but the process would
also
conftown me across all three games, and conftowning myself across all three games is something I valued more than the chance of scum shooting me wrongly as a mason in game #3.
Now, granted. Apparently, that assumption was wrong. There are not scum alt accounts for each game with a public scum PT in each of the games. But on my phone at the time, I had no way of
knowing
it was wrong.
This is me explaining the townslip (well, slip of not being scum) further, but note again that I used 'not scum in any game', because I am in fact: not scum in any game!
In post 630, mastina wrote: In post 557, T3 wrote: In post 523, Dwlee99 wrote:Mega's claim there is very scummy for both games if that's what you're basing this off of
I think Meg implied that their claim was not serious
Having seen that it was implied and not actually explicitly stated, I am again reminding you that Meg is like 200% scum in game #2.
Again, I thought that Meg was TMI'ing in game #2 with the claim and was trying to bait me out.
In post 631, mastina wrote: In post 615, Dunnstral wrote:They didn't even claim to be town in Game B so the rush to counterclaim is weird
Look I saw 'bulletproof', 'game 2', and '100% serious' (those words specifically, and nothing else in the post), and instantly saw red.
As in, MegAzumarill being red.
So given that I had a very limited amount of time and my phone makes posting the most frustrating borderline-impossible-yet-I-still-try thing in the world, I wasn't going to wait; I was going to make it clear that Meg was full of shit.
Having read Meg's posts?
Didn't happen. Not explicitly.
And the way it hasn't happened is explicitly part of the problem.
It doesn't matter even if MegAzumarill chimes in now and goes "Um, yeah, I was obviously joking?" explicitly--the drawn out way of implying it wasn't serious combined with my feelings on Meg's claim in general means that Meg is scum in game #2 anyway.
Btw since I am now home, I
can
fullclaim.
In Game #2, I'm an Activated Combined Bulletproof Miller (it's not called that in my role PM, but that's what the role boils down to being in effect, can paraphrase the flavor if people
really
want me to).
As in, I can activate a Bulletproof every single night; if I do so, I become a Miller that night.
The Miller though specifies that I do not appear as town to an alignment investigation. Meaning that I
should
be a Miller to precisely one role and would appear town to all others.
I should appear as "not scum" to an alignment cop who receives results in the form of "scum/not scum";
I should appear as "does not have a gun" to a gunsmith;
I should appear as "cannot kill" to a psychiatrist;
I should appear as "has not killed" to a detective;
I should not show as visiting anyone to a tracker (maybe maybe MAYBE self-visiting, depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't
think
it does);
I should not show as visiting anyone to a follower (maybe maybe MAYBE 'protective', depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't
think
it does);
You get the idea.
I can't become
conftown
in game #2 while using the bulletproof, which I assume is to prevent someone from doing follow the cop and making me an invincible conftown in game #2.
But it shouldn't be an issue--I am pretty damn obviously town anyway, so like. While I can't become
conftown
while using the BP, I
can
become
basically
conftown. (And if you doubt me, you can in fact use those other roles to investigate me and confirm me, altho it would explicitly be a waste. I am painfully obviously town here so like. Your actions are better used in
actually
narrowing down who the scum are.)
I
wanted
to claim the Miller initially, but I couldn't do so without making the Bulletproof worthless. Scum aren't going to shoot a Miller because towns usually policy-eliminate Millers before lylo given that Millers cannot be confirmed as town. I figured that it wouldn't be an issue given that I should show as a guilty to specifically one and ONLY one role and not a guilty to literally all others, and because I am pretty damn obviously town.
Claiming the bulletproof on D1 when I wasn't intending to is a bit unfortunate, but I'll take a free dead scum in game #2 over the
possibility
(not guarantee) of being shot N1 in game #2.
Here I again explain why I thought that Meg TMI'd as being scum in game #2.
Beyond that, I laid out a modified version of my trueclaim.
I am not actually a miller, obviously.
But what I said there remains true:
I should appear as "not scum" to an alignment cop who receives results in the form of "scum/not scum";
I should appear as "does not have a gun" to a gunsmith;
I should appear as "cannot kill" to a psychiatrist;
I should appear as "has not killed" to a detective;
I should not show as visiting anyone to a tracker (maybe maybe MAYBE self-visiting, depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does);
I should not show as visiting anyone to a follower (maybe maybe MAYBE 'protective', depending on whether the Activation counts, but I don't think it does).
All of those remain true because they are all actually true--I'm still basically town here. I show as the town result to almost every investigation, I'm not groupscum, I require scum to be dead in order to win, for all intents and purposes, I'm basically just town. Just, technically am not town due to technically not being town.
In post 1028, mastina wrote:DID I NOT FUCKING HARD TOWNSLIP BY NOT BEING AWARE OF THE FUCKING NATURE OF THE SCUM/MASONS IN GAME THREE.
DID I NOT FUCKING TELL YOU YOU FUCKERS COULD FUCK OFF IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS SCUM BECAUSE I NEVER FUCKING AM.
So fuck off with accusations of me being scum EVER again and hammering me when I'm fucking sleeping.
I again say "never am scum" here, because I'm not, but don't say 'always town', because that'd have been a lie.
I did fuck up in
1030 in saying 'town in all 3' tho.
I genuinely
meant
to say 'not scum', probably was too angry to notice the slip-up in breadcrumbing so I apologize for that.
In post 1032, mastina wrote:Fuck off, Dwlee.
I'm ticked enough that I got eliminated in ONE game.
I'm not going down when I have been putting in more effort than ever before in all three games.
Not a breadcrumb per se but this shows my mindset here:
I am not power-efforting scum; I am in fact, basically town in all three games (even though I am technically not town).
And there is some survivalism involved--because, natch, am a Survivor.
In post 1039, mastina wrote:Yes but I didn't know that when I was posting. I do now. But I didn't.
And just because they won doesn't mean I cannot be fucking pissed that you fucking mislimmed me while I was sleeping that game--it is a show of a (lack of) integrity.
Also need I remind you that I am at, what, L-2 now in both remaining games?
From "mastina is scum in 1/3 games" 'logic' that nobody backs up because there isn't any fucking logic had in a bullshit statement like that which goes contrary to everything?
I still have a right to be fucking furious here and I am enacting that right until the only votes on me are from scum.
This remains true but was another further hint at my role, in case I needed to claim it. (Which, thanks to the result, I do.)
In post 1040, mastina wrote:I have the right to curse at you for fucking voting me out both in game three and AFTER SEEING THAT I WAS TOWN THERE then deciding to vote me in BOTH THE REMAINING GAMES.
In spite of, yaknow.
Maybe.
Just maybe.
My play in game #3 showing proof that I'm not playing towards scum in any of the games?
I've been solving
all three
games from the
onset
. I've not been solving one game; I've been solving ALL of them. My reads are cross-game applying to ALL of them. So if you see me fucking flip town in game 3 after being fucking wrong there and then go on to proceed to VOTE ME IN BOTH REMAINING GAMES, I do in fact get to say:
Fuck. off.
Here I again say "not scum" (because I'm not) rather than "town" (because I'm technically not).
In post 1044, mastina wrote: In post 1041, Ircher wrote:You're town in precisely two because you are doing your standard wallposts, but at the same time, I can see you are pushing an agenda.
The agenda was attempting to get fucking nightkilled in game #2 by being fucking bulletproof and knowing that, via being bulletproof in game #2, I couldn't truly die in either of the other two. As in, due to being bulletproof in game #2, I couldn't have my voice removed in game #1.
The
only
way to get rid of me would be via town idiocy in fucking eliminating a fucking BULLETPROOF. (That or a scum strongman but like--forcing scum to use the strongman > doing the fucking scum's work for them.)
In post 1041, Ircher wrote:The question is which game of 1/2 you are town in and which one you are scum in.
I'm not scum in ANY of the games because I fucking hard-townslipped in a way that I was fucking incapable of doing if I were scum.
In post 1041, Ircher wrote:I lean towards you being scum in game 2 based on how you felt compelled to counterclaim a joke claim.
That was not a joke claim from Meg, and I've explained why it was not a joke claim.
In post 1041, Ircher wrote:Even if you believe this, it is still pretty poor form to immediately jump to counterclaim. You could have waited until you knew all the facts; it wasn't like you were in danger or anything.
This critique is proof that Ircher does not believe I am actually scum.
In post 1041, Ircher wrote:A claim as outrageous as the one Meg made doesn't require an explicit "it's a joke". I understand that reading jokes isn't your forte; it isn't mine either, but you really can't be using this as the primary basis for your read on Meg. (Also, in before you use this to reinforce your associative read on us.)
I'm not.
The claim isn't a joke not because it was serious.
It's not a joke because it was still
tactical
. It wasn't made without rhyme or reason. It was
deliberate
. It wasn't whimsy, it wasn't something done spontaneously. It was done
strategically
.
And THAT is why it is scum.
Yeah and if I was scum in game #2 no fucking shit I'd use the role optimally.
And using the role to vote a player and give away the scum extra vote without hammering is using it suboptimally--it means that every town player should treat L-2 as if it were L-1 and thus force extra caution, meaning the scum vote is basically worthless
Here you get more hints. I again emphasize "not scum in any game", rather than "town in all 3 games", and I again point out Ircher's TMI and why I thought Meg had TMI. (I was wrong on Meg having TMI but I believe I am right on Ircher having had TMI in his read on me--he had me as 'not town', but his posts didn't indicate he thought I was scum, thus, he correctly identified me as 3p when he should not have been able to as town.)
I'll say that the agenda remains true; my agenda is to survive game #2 and kill all the scum because I can't win with them pretty much.
In post 1047, mastina wrote:And I have been playing to my fucking town meta in ALL of them because guess what? Not scum in any of them.
That I wasn't playing with an agenda was already proven in game #3.
It would also be proven if I was fucking mislimmed in both games 1 and 2 because I am not fucking scum in all three and transparently so.
This remains true; I am not scum in any of the games and transparently so.
I am playing to my town meta in all three games, because while I'm technically not town in all 3, I'm
basically
town in all three.
I will say that I very strongly believed Meg to be scum TMI'ing in game #2 and wanted to eliminate Meg to basically hard-clear myself. If Meg flipped scum in game #2, then it'd clear me from being scum, meaning that people couldn't pull the bullshit "mastina is lying about being 3p" because I bloody killed scum.
Which, by the way, I can still do in the form of Dwlee and probably Ircher.
In post 1334, mastina wrote:It's a bit of a cheap strategy, I admit, but I am NOT letting myself be mislimmed, so literally any (technically legal) trick I can use, I will.
The motivation for this should be obvious:
As a survivor, I need to survive.
As not scum, I have an easy way to mostly prove I am not scum.
As such, I resorted to this in order to avoid my elimination.
In post 1336, mastina wrote:(And yes, I did feel the need to resort to this. I am not being eliminated as a fucking bulletproof again. It's happened before and I am determined to make it never happen again. I could have obviously cleared myself if Meg flipped scum, but since Meg did not, I need to find and eliminate an actual scum in order to actually clear myself.)
Here I laid out my strategy and basically said: "I'm not dieing as third party again". (As a reminder, last time I claimed 3p I got modkilled but I know Jingle's a lot more laxed on rules than unwnd so the fear is more from the town than the wrath of mod.) I laid out my plan, my strategy, to clear myself of being scum by having eliminated scum. It'd not eliminate paranoia of me being malevolent 3p but it'd guarantee that people would see me as not-groupscum at the very least.
In post 1374, mastina wrote: In post 1368, Dwlee99 wrote:Mastina you're angleshooting very hard and I think it is in poor taste regardless of your alignment here
Poor taste? Sure! But it's not against the rules.
And playing to my wincon > having good taste.
As long as its not a violation of site rules, I'm obligated to try and do everything to win. And angleshooting to conftown myself is doing precisely that.
Being mislimmed as a BP is the only losecon I can see, so avoiding it at all costs is playing to win.
Here I basically was claiming my real role anyway. I am obligated to do everything to win--as a Survivor, that means being confirmed as not groupscum is playing to my wincon. Being eliminated (which, to be clear, is still a mislim because
I am not scum
, I'm basically town even if I'm technically not because I require scum to be dead in order to win meaning that I am playing to the town wincon and thus, eliminating me IS a mislim!) obviously causes a Survivor to lose, so...
In post 1383, mastina wrote:I SHOULD be obvtown by play.
I CAN'T pull this shit off as scum.
I DID hard townslip.
But in spite of this being THE TOWNIEST I'VE EVER BEEN, I'm STILL at risk of being mislimmed as a fucking bulletproof, who scum CAN'T kill, barring them burning a strongman.
So damn right I'm going to use EVERY tool in my arsenal to avert that.
More laying out that I am not scum and am playing to the town wincon.
In post 1557, mastina wrote: In post 1506, CheekyTeeky wrote:So I'm a wagon analyzer (what I've called it) and my result was that the wagon had 4 alignment differences between voters on MegA. I'm just trying to confirm if it includes demon lord, but that's a pretty colourful wagon ^.^
I'm too tired to do proper analysis here but I think that this conftowns House, barring a town Demon Lord claim. (Since a Demon Lord won't claim tho, House should be conftown from it.)
From there, the options for the remaining three are:
-House->me->Cheeky (2/3) (would require me to not be town tho obv and still would leave a final alignment change--for instance, if the change was at RR then RR and Dwlee would both be scum; if the change was at Dwlee then Dwlee would be scum)
-me->Cheeky->T3 (2/3) (would require Cheeky to not be town tho in spite of this being Cheeky giving the result--seems kinda ridiculous)
-Cheeky->T3->RR->Dwlee (3/3) (would mean T3 and Dwlee are scum I think?)
I might not be thinking of all the possibilities but my townreads on T3/Dwlee do not override the chance of there being scum there.
I'm pretty sure that if you assume Cheeky is town here, then the only possible nontown are {mastina, T3, Dwlee} here?
Again, might be not thinking, should be more lucid to give it a better thought runthrough.
But I think that regardless, Dwlee might be confscum here?
VOTE: Dwlee99
Not sure, feel free to correct me, am tired, not thinking at full capacity, but I think that it has to fit regardless of your thoughts elsewhere.
I might be overlooking in my tiredness the RR scum world, I can't figure the math out there right now but that's probably where I am flawed in thinking.
At this point, I was already committing to claiming my status as third party, I just wanted Dwlee as scum dead first because if Dwlee died and flipped scum, that'd be the time for me to out myself.
But with Dwlee admitting they're scum, that moved up the timetable from "after the D2 elimination on Dwlee" to right now.
And to be clear, I do in fact know that Dwlee
must
be confscum. Even if they didn't confess, by knowing I'm 2/4 of the alignment changes, and with the Demon Lord as a third, that meant that the fourth must mean Dwlee was scum.
