Mini Theme 2255 | UPick a Normal | Endgame

[Galron]

I submitted

Town: 2-shot bulletproof gunsmith
Mafia: Loud Alien, 2-shot Strongman

no preference

[Galron]

Night taly

[Galron]

I submitted

Town: 2-shot bulletproof gunsmith
Mafia: Loud Alien, 2-shot Strongman

no preference

Should I assume you're telling the truth?

absolutely not

[Galron]

Guess I didn't realize we were choosing preference for town/mafia and for role separately, but whatever.

[Galron]

Am I being dodgy or is titus, I'm not getting it.

[Galron]

I see, and yes I guess they do.

[Galron]

Am I being dodgy or is titus, I'm not getting it.

I have a n0 inno on Titus.

So do I

[Galron]

Am I being dodgy or is titus, I'm not getting it.

I have a n0 inno on Titus.

So do I

I bet you have a n0 inno on most of the player list.

All of it, actually. It's refreshing. Like a piece of spearmint gum.

Spoiler:

[Galron]

I know you're innocent, Titus. January is your month. You got this.

[Galron]

Am I being dodgy or is titus, I'm not getting it.

I have a n0 inno on Titus.

So do I

I bet you have a n0 inno on most of the player list.

All of it, actually. It's refreshing. Like a piece of spearmint gum.

Spoiler:

Cool.

Spoiler:

cwutididthar?

VOTE: Galron

Spoiler:

yesididcleverboy

[Galron]

Meg v Mastina
Cheeky v Mastina

Mastina stirring the pot.

Or all three scum.

That's it. That's the solve.

[Galron]

That's a lot of analysis from an rvs question. I'm not sure how I got to be town (probably) out of it, but the grouping of taly (whose name is in greentext?), titus and me as not stating a preference appears to coincide with the townreads of the three of us. Mastina, am I on the right track? If so, how is our not stating a preference town!indicative, and why would I be [probably] town, as opposed to [full] town Taly and Titus? It is stated that the particular names are important, so is personal meta involved?

If our stating our preference is not connected with the town reads, then I'm curious as to how they were developed. Why would mafia think that claiming no preference would out them as a scum candidate? And what is the difference between the players stating no preference and the players refusing to state a preference?

[Galron]

And by that logic, mastina submitted town as preference, which would not auto town-bin her if I'm looking at this correctly.

[Galron]

VOTE: yume

[Galron]

VOTE: yume

Why vote for the first time 7 minutes after a VC was posted.

And for a person that has said nothing?

Were you worried about the perception of you not having one in?

Yes.

[Galron]

VOTE: yume

Why vote for the first time 7 minutes after a VC was posted.

And for a person that has said nothing?

Were you worried about the perception of you not having one in?

Yes.

Why?

Reasons.

[Galron]

Spooky isn't it.

[Galron]

Don't bang your head against the wall too hard. Save some for later.

[Galron]

Okay then. I guess I'll follow mastina down the garden path until I get a chance to map this out. I need to find that thread where someone was able to confer titles on people. Schadd I think.

[Galron]

hi

galron

its midnight where im at and im eating a grilled cheese sandwich with cayenne pepper in it

<3

its def a friday night... or a very, very early saturday morning

That's my grilled cheese! I use jalapenos. I'm in a hotel room in Indianapolis with a chipotle chalupa and MILD sauce. They complete flakes on the fire sauce.

[Galron]

vla through 11 Jan

[Galron]

@

Scorpious

, is your vote on

Galron

RVS and if not, then why is it there?

It was originally RVS but I wanted to follow up on something I had asked him before I officially lifted it.

I'm still waiting for something wrt to that yume vote so you can keep your vote on me.

[Galron]

quarantee she is not mafia in this game

No such thing as a guarantee.

quarantee she is not mafia in this game

No such thing as a guarantee.

If you read how alignments roll in this game, it's quarantee.

House, it's a quarantee not a guarantee. Enchant must quarantine for 5 days if wrong on mastina's alignment.

Okay, belly laughed.

[Galron]

Also, I only just now realised that your character is based off Dr. House from the TV series. Somehow, Hugh Laurie in your avi combined with your username gave me nothing.

And I thought it was bad it took me a month to figure out your avatar.

[Galron]

Okay I need to get serious. I picked my Bad Town uni up from the dry cleaners today, so I'm ready to get back to work.

[Galron]

If it helps I may or may not have gotten one of the roles I submitted.

[Galron]

I think something not game-related is happening with meg.

[Galron]

Eh maybe not.

[Galron]

Cheeky voted me after Titus called us out as scum buddies. What's that aobut

[Galron]

UNVOTE:

[Galron]

Titus

I'll be frank, I don't see what you see in

Galron

.

He's chainsawing for Meg like no other. I don't see hunting. Instead I see panick.

What panic? I can see the Meg thing maybe.

[Galron]

@

Scorpious

, is your vote on

Galron

RVS and if not, then why is it there?

It was originally RVS but I wanted to follow up on something I had asked him before I officially lifted it.

I'm still waiting for something wrt to that yume vote so you can keep your vote on me.

Nothing came of it, but you can keep your vote on me if you want.

[Galron]

Galron what were you waiting for on Yume?

Wanted to see if a couple of scummy moves changed up anything on mastina.

[Galron]

Yes. And she properly evaluated me.

[Galron]

So why vote Yume instead of mastina I'm confused.

Yume was in her poe, it was right after a vc and no one was voting yume

[Galron]

Okay then. I guess I'll follow mastina down the garden path until I get a chance to map this out. I need to find that thread where someone was able to confer titles on people. Schadd I think.

Galron did you figure out at this point that you thought mastina was town? If so why back off your gambit now when there's a replacement for yume?

Mastina gave another reads list and I think properly place me in accordance with my play and her prior mech analysis.

[Galron]

So why vote Yume instead of mastina I'm confused.

Yume was in her poe, it was right after a vc and no one was voting yume

And I wasn't voting anyone.

[Galron]

Just thought I'd let everyone know I'm now eating popcorn which is my fave snack ^.^
Fomo vanquished.

I want

[Galron]

Oh k cool

K COOL spinning all the hits from 1987. Here's Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam for all you phreaks

Spoiler:

[Galron]

Enchant are you waiting around to quickhammer? I know I don't have a vote right now either, but this seems odd for you. I'm probably just going to vote Meg, but I want a claim. So if you're planning on an lol, I'm going to ask Meg to claim now.

[Galron]

And taly I'm picking up bad vibes from you. I can't pinpoint it, but they're there.

[Galron]

I like 665 and would add that dwlee had very few comments for catching up on the entire game.

[Galron]

VOTE: meg

E-1

[Galron]

And taly I'm picking up bad vibes from you. I can't pinpoint it, but they're there.

I don't know what to do about "bad vibes" :/

Yeah, it's a pretty weak thing, but something seems off.

[Galron]

The 2 VT thing is important if you can scare that up Enchant.

[Galron]

I am not sure how many, but this reaction is unrealistic at all.

While it's possible moderator put up 8 MOTHERFUCKING PRs, i only can wonder how. I bet on atleast half of town being VT.

Thanks for posting the rules for my lazy ass. And I would not take your bet.

[Galron]

Scorp, Enchant, Meg I now lean town on if I didn't already.

[Galron]

I am not sure how many, but this reaction is unrealistic at all.

While it's possible moderator put up 8 MOTHERFUCKING PRs, i only can wonder how. I bet on atleast half of town being VT.

Thanks for posting the rules for my lazy ass. And I would not take your bet.

I agree with this. I don't see a mod giving us a u pick game and making so many VT's.

I agree with Enchant though.

[Galron]

When did we stop limming those who when forced to claim claim VT on Day 1 of a large especially?

[Galron]

LMFAO I CLAIM COMPULSIVELY SELF-TARGETING FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR.

Oh God not again

[Galron]

If there was a redirector, would the target nominally stay the same but deflect onto the hider?

[Galron]

It doesn't really matter. Cheeky's dead for whatever reason.

[Galron]

I will also be keeping my own notes on people's claims, but if someone wants to neighborize me into mastina's PT so that I don't have to keep notes, it would be appreciated.

Was this a joke, zefiend?

[Galron]

If there was a redirector, would the target nominally stay the same but deflect onto the hider?

Redirecter not normal.

Yeah, you're right.

[Galron]

I just wasted 15 minutes making a case for mastina scum but remembered at the end that Cheeky couldn't be targeted.

[Galron]

So right now, I'm thinking:
All 3 scum are in {CheekyTeeky, MegAzumarill, House, Yume, Flea the Magician};
CheekyTeeky and MegAzumarill have a high chance of being scum;
House is less likely scum;
There's 1-2 scum in {Yume, Flea the Magician};
There's basically a guaranteed scum, 1-2, in {CheekyTeeky, MegAzumarill}.

I'm going to at the least post this and ask mastina to address it. Just being wrong doesn't explain it I don't think.

[Galron]

I don't think so if Cheeky wasn't an intentional target. But it leads me to question her process and the rest of her reads.

[Galron]

You guys figure out the mechs of that kill. I don't get it.

[Galron]

Did an ISO on ɀefiend, I'm good with this ...

VOTE: ɀefiend

I'm null on ɀefiend but I'll sheep this. I don't think his ISO is particularly scummy or townie. I have my eyes on a couple of other stronger candidates, but pressure here is fine for now.

VOTE: ɀefiend

Nothing to do with alignment, but I do find it funny in a coincidental sort of way that both ɀefiend and Scorpious are in this game.

[Galron]

Can you explain the last sentence of this?

Just seems like a really weird thing to say.

You and he are both coming back from years-long breaks and have remarked on changes in the site's culture.

[Galron]

Before I'd say Greeting is town for just posting big text walls I don't want to read but we trying to do some bigger brain.

I still have my reads from before. Nothing today has really swayed me but the cheeky kills makes me think we should still be considering Scorpius who hasn't done anything today.

Call me town in your next post or imma vote you.

Do you actually think you're out of the scum range you showed in opposum?

VOTE: Dwlee

You were warned.

The whole zefeind thing was for naught?

[Galron]

Before I'd say Greeting is town for just posting big text walls I don't want to read but we trying to do some bigger brain.

I still have my reads from before. Nothing today has really swayed me but the cheeky kills makes me think we should still be considering Scorpius who hasn't done anything today.

Call me town in your next post or imma vote you.

Do you actually think you're out of the scum range you showed in opposum?

VOTE: Dwlee

You were warned.

The whole zefeind thing was for naught?

He just comes in, makes an empty post, and you move your vote? Pressure valve doesn't even get pressed.

[Galron]

[quote="In post 1032, House"][/quote]

I'm good. Vote it.

[Galron]

Usually when I'm town, I have to beat votes off with a stick.

In this game, people are like, "stay the fuck away from House, that motherfucker is crazy"

I'll follow you around all day if you want. I don't think you're crazy.

[Galron]

I'm good. Vote it.

False bravado is definitely your color.

Do you have matching OMGUS earrings?

Vote it.

[Galron]

I'm good. Vote it.

False bravado is definitely your color.

Do you have matching OMGUS earrings?

Vote it.

Nah. Just told my buddies you're probably VT.

Won't find out until you flip me. So vote it.

[Galron]

VOTE: taly

[Galron]

And here I was just about to ask you on your zefiend vote.

I woke up at 1:30 AM and my self was telling my self to vote taly.

I think Zefiend is lhf. In the poe and should be killed regardless of alignment.

[Galron]

And here I was just about to ask you on your zefiend vote.

I woke up at 1:30 AM and my self was telling my self to vote taly.

I think Zefiend is lhf. In the poe and should be killed regardless of alignment.

So you're voting me for taking the path of least resistance?

No. Your vote on zefiend has nothing to do with my waking moment of thought. (probably has something to do with it, but nothing of which I'm consciously aware)

[Galron]

Those are more words than I've seen Enchant put into some

games

.

[Galron]

Those are more words than I've seen Enchant put into some

games

.

Do you feel it’s AI at all?

I'm townreading Enchant more than I was. I don't know how much more.

[Galron]

What Titus and the Toucan said.

[Galron]

Mastina you have me mech town but scum by play, which states as virgin olive oil scum and is now more canola oil scum bordering on Crisco scum. I'm not an ego player, which I think is a fine term that someone recently introduced, but I'm generally aware of my play and my town/scum index in a game. It really hasn't changed much from the beginning of the game and in fact has risen around 20 points to this point. Yet you still have me in your second-tier poe, even going so far to say that if one of the players flip town, there's a high degree of likelihood that I'll flip red. Town you isn't reading me objectively, and scum you is plugging players into a strat.

[Galron]

Mastina you have me mech town but scum by play, which states as virgin olive oil scum and is now more canola oil scum bordering on Crisco scum. I'm not an ego player, which I think is a fine term that someone recently introduced, but I'm generally aware of my play and my town/scum index in a game. It really hasn't changed much from the beginning of the game and in fact has risen around 20 points to this point. Yet you still have me in your second-tier poe, even going so far to say that if one of the players flip town, there's a high degree of likelihood that I'll flip red. Town you isn't reading me objectively, and scum you is plugging players into a strat.

Can you rephrase this without the cooking oil references?

mastina's read of me has progressively gone downhill while my play has headed directionaly upward. If she's town, she should see this or tell me why I'm wrong. Her being scum makes more sense, given she had both cheeky and meg as groupscum in her lowest tier Day 1 and now on Day 2 has me in a grouping of four where she says she believes if one of the four flips green, the other three flip red. I know she's ill and her posting is limited, but before I go to deep into a rabbit hole on this I'd like her to tell me whether that's a fair assessment of where she's at.

[Galron]

{Titus/mastina/Greeting/Taly}
{Scorpious/Galron/House/Enchant}
{Flea/zefiend/Dwlee}

I think 2 scum in lowest and 1 in mid tier is likeliest

Would not be surprised if 2 existed in the mid tier solely because this was the dynamic the thread started at in D2 and despite my individual townreads it's historically unhelpful for the town to let tension go unresolved.

I will be floored if scum is in the top but would consider in elo pending my survival.

Talk about dwlee.

[Galron]

Conservative language.

VOTE: zefiend

[Galron]

Again, ALMOST and CAN being keywords here… don’t come at me with more bullshit House… I’m making an observation..

And Titus calls

me

sensitive.

So's Taly.

I love my sensitive men.

I can’t watch the dog episode of Fututama…

I won’t do it..

This is about the first thing you've said that's made me feel any empathy for you.

[Galron]

I'd like her to tell me whether that's a fair assessment of where she's at.

Not quite--you were an initial townread but then I doubted it down to null, pending more.

You're still there.

It's just that I have 5/10 or so slots as townreads so null places you in the poe.

The last person I'd eliminate from the poe mind you, but still in there.

I'm going to take a look at this. My reading comprehension.. eh

[Galron]

My roll rate for scum is terrible

I think I'm at +90% town roll rate.

I know I said self-meta means nothing from but like

You could honestly catch me from BoPing in a scum game.

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=88168

Only recent scum game where it's not a multigame-in-one.

tbf you asked for BoP there. And I was drunk.

[Galron]

I'm a fucking Jailkeeper.

Town on my wagon are terribad/lazy.

I jailed Taly N1. I've been crumbing all Day long. Maybe some quieter people have picked up on it, but surely nobody voting me.

VOTE: Galron is lockscum. Titus probably scum, her play is unforgivable as town.

Obviously if someone quickhammers me here shoot/lim them tomorrow.

This game gives me a headache, I'm taking a rest for the night.

Talking about all these scumreads, but I get no mention even though I'm the reason your wagon exists?

I. Don't. Believe. You.

Yeah I don't care - you can be scum too. You're loud enough to avoid your lim today but as I won't be around for long you won't have to deal with me pushing you any further. So good job doubling down.

Wagon me and case me.

And show me those crumbs.

[Galron]

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Okay.

Tell me others?

If you read the thread mastina posted three possibilities.

There are more beyond that.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Some reads:
- Taly is town
- Dwlee could be scum
- Scorpious could be scum, but not with House
- Flea gets +town points for standing up to mastina
- mastina gets -town points b/c of what Flea said
- If mastina is scum then Galron probably is too
- Greeting is null
- Enchant I hope is just bad town (like me)
- Titus is null

A lot of the reads were shaped in large part by House. Which had me strongly town-reading him. Until this post:

@mod

: do you treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee?

(The wiki mentions that some mods do this, which could be informative if that's the case because a protected Hider target would not protect the Hider)

I find this question very, very curious.

If it were the case, I agree it would be informative - but to who?

Suppose that it were the case that person X was protected and Cheeky visited person X. Then if scum attempted to kill person X, the kill would be "copied" onto Cheeky, explaining how they died.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

But it would tell town, in-game-thread, absolutely nothing.

Please explain how your question was meant to be informative or helpful to town. Because it smells like role/info-fishing as scum.

UNVOTE:

[Galron]

VOTE: scorpious

[Galron]

Why the unvote? I don't get it.

His crumbs are there. I'm not thrilled with him, but another night with a JK would be fine. He'll just get NK'd.

[Galron]

If he's alive tomorrow, we kill him then.

[Galron]

I may defer to your logic though.

[Galron]

Step away and map it out.

[Galron]

Some reads:
- Taly is town
- Dwlee could be scum
- Scorpious could be scum, but not with House
- Flea gets +town points for standing up to mastina
- mastina gets -town points b/c of what Flea said
- If mastina is scum then Galron probably is too
- Greeting is null
- Enchant I hope is just bad town (like me)
- Titus is null

Zefiend, how do you go from this 32 hours ago to me lockscum without metioning me in-between?

[Galron]

Okay so Scorpius now?

Yes please

[Galron]

I hope I didn't upset

House

, I figured being frank with him would be meeting him at eye level.

Spoiler:

This was not related to you.

[Galron]

I won't tell you that.

[Galron]

Straight men get the best lines.

[Galron]

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

[Galron]

7+ days passed and no one decapitated, wtf stale game.

VOTE: Scorpious

I agree, watching house feed his ego is getting old.

I’m a 1-shot Neapolitan and I was blocked last night looking at Zefiend..

Why Zefiend?

[Galron]

1-shot Neapolitan

Another weak claim but because it's weak it lends support to Ircher's weak claim.

I'm getting games mixed up

[Galron]

We're doing this?

VOTE: flea

E1

[Galron]

I don't know why I'm trusting this actually.

[Galron]

And there it is.

[Galron]

Anything to move on.

[Galron]

It's strange, but my trust in mastina starts to nosedive.

I think i will vote Scorpious anyway... But before i want know who Jailer targeted.

[Galron]

Take out the it's strange part

[Galron]

That's a tall order, Taly, and an unfair burden to place on someone when you can't figure it out yourself.

[Galron]

Just wait until Tuesday or whenever for Zefiend to show up so he can tell us who he jailkept. If you want to run up people in the meantime, fine.

[Galron]

1. Wtf with that lim. I didn't even get to the damn thread from the time I posted that vote before the hammer.

You don't get to not take responsibility for placing a vote. Everyone knows that every time they vote it could result in a lim.

[Galron]

I odn't know why they wouldn't kill the jailkeeper actually. Seems like the more optimal play there.

[Galron]

That's a tall order, Taly, and an unfair burden to place on someone when you can't figure it out yourself.

On what? The call for more cohesion or having people justify their flash votes that had very little context?

I can't look at that wagon and not believe there are 1, maybe 2 of the 3 scum on it that were in the PoE and wanted to take a shot at a miss.

D2 was riddled with 1v1s that excluded

Flea

, so why did faer get eliminated so quickly?

My answer? Scum.

1. Wtf with that lim. I didn't even get to the damn thread from the time I posted that vote before the hammer.

You don't get to not take responsibility for placing a vote. Everyone knows that every time they vote it could result in a lim.

Of course but I didn't have a crystal ball that this would end up in an elimination in less than 3 hours after my vote. You're still not answering my prompt. I don't think what I'm asking is unreasonable in the slightest.

What you're asking is for someone to come up with a plan for you to bring the town together. That's a pretty audacious request. That being said, no one seems to want to change their POE, which means there's some serious fuckery going on. The best way to approach that is to reevaluate.

[Galron]

What does how do I rectify the lack of teamwork in the thread mean?

As far as my vote on flea, call it blood lust.

[Galron]

If anyone is scum reading enchant, they are fools

[Galron]

Yeah, I don't even know where I am right now.

[Galron]

All I know is I've got to do something different.

[Galron]

What about mastina?

You people are weird. Dwlee's town.

If

Dwlee99

is town then who is scum,

ɀefiend

or

Flea The Magician

?

Well, yes, if Dwlee is town then I would think those two would have a much much higher chance of being scum.

I am pretty damn sure there's a minimum of 1 town in {House, Enchant} with a fairly high chance both are town.

Given {Taly, Titus, Greeting, Scorpious} as town, that narrows down the scum to 2-3 (with a fairly high chance of being 3) of:

{Galron, zefiend, Dwlee99, Flea the Magician}.

(I admit my townread on Scorpious is not as strong as the townreads on Taly/Titus/Greeting, or for that matter House/Enchant but I still think Scorpious is unlikely to be scum here.)

If that pool of four has 2-3 scum in it, then one flipping town basically confirms the rest as scum imo.

Here she's got 1-2 scum among {Galron, zefiend, Dwlee99, Flea the Magician}. Flea was green, and I'm willing to believe zefiend's claim atp. So she's
confirming dwlee and me as scum. But she couches that prognostication with IF that group of four has 2-3 scum in it, which gives it faulty legs to begin with. So even though she's sticking with her plan, it's based on a faulty premise. She got there by assuming {Taly, Titus, Greeting, Scorpious} as town; and she got

there

by assuming at least one town (likely both) in {House, Enchant}.

The problem here is if one of {House, Enchant} is not town, how does that change the rest of the forecast? Or, if one or more of {Taly, Titus, Greeting, Scorpious} isn't town, how does that change the forecast?

And we know that Flea was town, can speculate pretty heavily that zefiend is town, and I know that I am town, so that leaves one scum in that grouping of four.

This rundown contains to many unanswered contingencies. All we're doing is working our way up mastina's layers from here:

I didn't mean technicalities, I meant the method itself. Some players submitted town preference, some submitted scum preference. Some townies might have submitted scum preference. What if scums lie about scum preference and those townies who submitted scum preference didn't lie and simply didn't get it? This is what I'm sceptical about.

Well about that.

If Enchant was serious about submitting scum preference, then I'm pretty sure that if the mod gave everyone their stated preference?

We have three scum who submitted scum preference and then either refused to state their alignment preference (Cheeky, Meg) or lied about it and said they had town preference. (Technically, they could lie and say 'no preference', but I've reason to believe that everyone who claimed 'No Preference' is actually town here, just off of who the names claiming no preference are. I don't think scum truthfully claimed no preference given Enchant, and I don't think scum lied about it being no preference given who the names are and basic psychology in mafia play in that mafia would be afraid to claim 'no preference' if they thought that claiming no preference would make them more likely to be seen as a scum candidate.)

Spoiler: Notes

TOWN

PREFERENCE:

mastina

House
Scorpious
Yume
Greeting
Flea the Magician
CheekyTeeky (after much resistance)
ɀefiend

NO ALIGNMENT PREFERENCE:

Taly
Titus
Galron

SCUM

PREFERENCE:

Enchant? (Not sure if serious)

PREFERENCE NOT YET STATED:

MegAzumarill

MAFIA ROLES

POOL:

1-Shot Strongman (mastina)
1-Shot Universal Backup (mastina)
Mafia PT Cop (mastina)
Informed Goon (Enchant)
Macho 1x Strongman (Enchant)
Mafia Rolecop (Enchant)
Mafia Ascetic Multitasking Rolestopper/Rolecop (House)
Mafia Ascetic Multitasking Hider/Watcher (House)
Ascetic Strongman (House)
Mafia Neapolitan (Taly)
Mafia Neighborizer (Taly)
Mafia Combined Rolecop, Loyal Neighborizer Loyal Doctor Traitor (Titus)
Mafia Combined Disloyal Universal Backup Encryptor (Titus)
Mafia Combined Personal Alien Mailman (Titus)
Ninja (Scorpious)
Mafia JOAT (Scorpious)
Mafia Roleblocker (Scorpious)
Mafia Loud Alien (Galron)
Mafia 2-shot Strongman (Galron)
Mafia Roleblocker (Yume)
Mafia RoleCop (Yume)
Mafia Neighbour (Yume)
Mafia Roleblocker (Greeting)
(Mafia (not specific)) Jailkeeper (Flea the Magician)
(not specific) Informed Goon (Flea the Magician)

MAFIA ROLE

FREQUENCY:

Strongman: x4
Rolecop: 4 (+2 variants)
Ascetic: 3
Roleblocker: 3 (+1 variant)
Rolestopper/Variant: 3
Universal Backup: 2
Neighborizer: 2 (+1 variant)
Informed: 2

PICKS NOT YET STATED:

MegAzumarill
CheekyTeeky

Between the players having stated town and the player refusing to state a preference, we have 9/13 players.

So what this tells me:

Taly

and Titus are town;
Galron is

probably

town.

If Enchant is town, which he probably is, then all three scum would be in those that didn't claim or claimed town.

Removing myself, that pool?
{House, Scorpious, Yume, Greeting, Flea the Magician, CheekyTeeky, ɀefiend, MegAzumarill}.

Of those players?

Greeting has no completed scumgames per their wiki. They have four towngames and zero scumgames. The preference for a towngame is probably thus true and accurate. So

Greeting is town

.

Scorpious's wiki leaves it unclear, but very loosely imo indicates that town is

slightly

more likely.

House I think has stated his town/scum preference before, but I sadly can't remember it and he has no real wiki so I have to keep him in the pool

for now

until I track it down.

Ditto for Flea; fae might've stated faer preference but I can't remember it.

Yume might've stated preference on one of her accounts but thanks to the number of them I can't track it down.

If Cheeky has stated her preference previously, I don't know it.

zefiend is impossible to track; ditto, for Meg.

So sadly, that doesn't narrow the pool down as much as I want, but it still helps as a

starting

point.

It gives us 3/7.5 names as scum from a narrowed list.

Not quite 50% odds of hitting scum, but 40% odds of hitting scum beats the default 25% we'd have otherwise (3/12).

And from this, we can get into the reads on players from that list.

{House,

Scorpious

, Yume, Flea the Magician, CheekyTeeky, ɀefiend, MegAzumarill}

Cheeky's play looks like scum;
Meg's play looks like scum.

Even if both are scum, that'd leave 1/4 of the remaining prime suspects as candidates.

What mastina is doing both scum!mastina and town!mastina could do; the act is merely Information Instead of Analysis, which is NAI. However there are some flaws, and although I have no way to prove it, what mastina says about what everyone submitted is not 100% true.

I submitted town preference overall, but all three of my scum roles were rejected (which seems ridiculous reading what some of y'all claim to submitted) -- so I was assigned a Vanilla preference if rolling scum.

I will also be keeping my own notes on people's claims, but if someone wants to neighborize me into mastina's PT so that I don't have to keep notes, it would be appreciated.

Not enough petty arguments to generate any reads yet.

This makes me lean town on zefiend.

Which leaves 1-3 scum in {House, Yume, Flea the Magician}.

I could see it being any of them, but while I can't read House worth a damn, loosely, I think his contributions are town. I think 102 was accurate regardless (if House is scum, he was the scum; otherwise, it's probably Meg), and find the Cheeky House vote there sus.

If I had to go gun to my head, I'd say that in {Yume, Flea, House}, towniest to scummiest it'd be House > Yume > Flea.

So right now, I'm thinking:

All 3 scum are in {CheekyTeeky, MegAzumarill, House, Yume, Flea the Magician};
CheekyTeeky and MegAzumarill have a high chance of being scum;
House is less likely scum;
There's 1-2 scum in {Yume, Flea the Magician};
There's basically a guaranteed scum, 1-2, in {CheekyTeeky, MegAzumarill}

.

And we keep hitting green, except for Cheeky who was green most likely hit by scum.

[Galron]

scumreading

mastina

is illegal

*pecks galron*

ouch

Dammit Taly

[Galron]

I think it's going to take a good read of some ISOs. But I've not been in a position to do that. A mass claim would supplement that.

But this thing with mastina is really bugging me. One of the problems with my theory is that scum wouldn't have killed Cheeky though because that exposes the illogic of mastina's postings.

[Galron]

And I really just want to drink and watch Dr Who re-runs right now.

[Galron]

Fuck!

[Galron]

Dwlee and scorpious, what is this last game you two refer to, and what is its applicability here?

[Galron]

Everybody sucks right now.

Literally nobody cares that the Flea power wagon was terrible. Everybody is talking roles, spec, leashing, mechanics. It is very easy for scum to blend in there.

Basically nobody is purely scumhunting.

I'm too lazy to do it myself.

Taly, I'll get back to you later with some scattered thoughts, but honestly it's all pretty shallow and pessimistic.

1. true
2. false
3. some people are town hunting
4. true
5. maybe

[Galron]

Did Scorp claim vig? Why hasn't he used that yet if so?

It takes discipline to holster that shot. The smarter play is to hold on to it until you have better reads.

[Galron]

Dwlee and scorpious, what is this last game you two refer to, and what is its applicability here?

It's why I scumread scorpius. He just ate'd when under pressure and did this same exact posting style. I said that D1 weary

With no NK why should we disbelieve his claim other than your meta ate read?

[Galron]

If we're going to kill a claimed PR we oughtta have a good reason to do it.

[Galron]

Why did you try to watch house?

Couldn't breathe and right leg paralysis.

[Galron]

It's scum indicative for mastina who is meticulous in her mech reasoning. We just finished a game where she had the whole scumteam in her mech spec based on her knowledge of normals. Luckily she didn't back herself and went with her play reads instead so she didn't catch scum!me.

Another piece of evidence towards scumstina is her read on me from the outset, and her reads on flea and Mega. Her PoE seems hamfisted and intentional in it's positioning as opposed to the elegant convincing posts that may be wrong but are usually logically correct.

100% disagree on mastina's mech being spot on. I think mastina skews balance towards town. I don’t agree with her reasoning half the time but I strongly feel this is town mastina and you're BoPing her.

Titus I know you've got that trial, but I'm interested in knowing whether you still think Cheeky was BoPing mastina here.

[Galron]

225 is a very good post as I read it again, maybe because it backs up what I've been feeling.

It's scum indicative for mastina who is meticulous in her mech reasoning. We just finished a game where she had the whole scumteam in her mech spec based on her knowledge of normals. Luckily she didn't back herself and went with her play reads instead so she didn't catch scum!me.

Another piece of evidence towards scumstina is her read on me from the outset, and her reads on flea and Mega. Her PoE seems hamfisted and intentional in it's positioning as opposed to the elegant convincing posts that may be wrong but are usually logically correct.

Hamfisted and intentional are good adjectives here. The only thing wrong is that it's not logically correct.

[Galron]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You agreed with Titus on Cheeky BoPing mastina. Do you still think that?

[Galron]

100% disagree on mastina's mech being spot on. I think mastina skews balance towards town. I don’t agree with her reasoning half the time but I strongly feel this is town mastina and you're BoPing her.

How do you explain away her half baked read of Flea who has given evidence contrary to her asserting fae had insufficient meta to make a judgement call on fae's alignment preference. This has nothing to do with BoP because it's not about read accuracy. It's about the intent and effort mastina is putting into the game.

If you want me to consider elsewhere please explain to me why meg is scum as I feel this is town meg.

I'll also point out that mastina has recently lost two games against scum!me so she should know this is not my scumgame, otherwise she'd be townreading me ^.^

These are useful as well.

[Galron]

The case is mastina is usually pretty thourough and accurate with mechanical stuff, yet is using pretty blatant assumptions rather than mechanics to create a POE that I don't think is accurate. It has obviously been thought about at length but yet is so flimsy and is being presented at concrete. That is why I believe it's likely from scum as an attempt to easily put townies up for lim and look townie

This, too, echoes what I've said.

[Galron]

Aw ^.^

I also townread zefiend so I have

Galron
House
Taly
Scorp

Which doesn't feel right. Like at best 2/3. Hmm.

Cheeky dropped mastina & I'm not sure why.

[Galron]

VOTE: scorpious

[Galron]

Is

zefiend/Scorp

S/S implausible?

Not implausible, but I think we need to take the JK claim at face value for now even though he for whatever reason says he locked up Scorp. I dont think Zefiend is the lim today. And I don't know any more about mechs than the least mechy person here, but greeting's focus on matching up maf PRs to TPRs makes sense. I'm not sure that both Zefiend and Scorp can be TPRs of that strength.

[Galron]

And the reason I trust Zefiend's claim more than Scorp's is because Zefiend's crumbs match up fairly strongly. Ofc he could be a scum JK, but I think that's remote and not really worth considering.

[Galron]

Scorp how do you feel about each vote on you?

All seem to have been parked on me. I can see almost 2 scum there. Maybe a Dwlee or sneaky Galron. They’ve both been pretty anti me this whole day. I keep saying and maintain I have no idea about house.

Back that up where I've been on you all day.

[Galron]

Scorp how do you feel about each vote on you?

All seem to have been parked on me. I can see almost 2 scum there. Maybe a Dwlee or sneaky Galron. They’ve both been pretty anti me this whole day. I keep saying and maintain I have no idea about house.

Back that up where I've been on you all day.

And use facts and not this woe is me bullshit.

[Galron]

And the reason I trust Zefiend's claim more than Scorp's is because Zefiend's crumbs match up fairly strongly. Ofc he could be a scum JK, but I think that's remote and not really worth considering.

How does my claim not make sense in your eyes?

I didn't say it doesn't make sense, but Dwlee makes a compelling argument

Because zefiend jailed him and no kill happened + he claimed parts of his role that weren't there earlier including a watcher, a strong power role that is only balanced if scum have some sort of ninja, and that he claimed to use on house not zefiend, a claimed PR.

[Galron]

I'd rather take the head off the leader, but if I've got to start by killing you Scorpious, that's fine.

[Galron]

and. I know you made a mistake with who was in th game but you were so quick to to call me out you literally tied me in with someone else’s play in another game.

1516 was literally a post in your favor.

[Galron]

1433 and 1459 were from the previous day. Do better.

[Galron]

How many players who have claimed or died so far have claimed or flipped a role that they actually submitted? I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Galron]

BTW I think that puts Scorp at E-2

[Galron]

I know you've got a lot on your plate right now, Scorpious, but what is your take on mastina?

[Galron]

I'm VT

[Galron]

Taly I'm not sure why I thought enchant was town at the time. Something about his posts felt right.

[Galron]

I guess we can hear why mastina threw a shit-fit about not limming dwlee

[Galron]

It's not a bad question, greeting. Why choose enchant and me

[Galron]

Shut up House and let greeting answer without you trying to taint it.

[Galron]

Immune to everything but kills

[Galron]

Okay. So why watch me?

[Galron]

I think you lose out here, Greeting.

VOTE: Greeting

[Galron]

god house . you act betrayed my trust. I had to go up and down trying to figure you how greeting could allow that restul

[Galron]

and so we kill house without getting to mastina, the deep wolf.

[Galron]

Okay. A guy with a Titus on his head walks into a bar with a Priest, a Rabbi and Johnny Cash.



That's the furthest I've gotten.

[Galron]

If we lim Galron today, Dwlee is scum if I die tonight because killing me is his only shot at winning the game with Galron's TMI clearing me because I'm his best shot at the game winning mislim which evaporates with Galron's flip.

With my death, he can attempt to railroad Enchant, the other townie that everybody is dying to kill.

Is Galron red or green in this scenario? You seem to take the result for granted.

[Galron]

Galron, what are your scumreads?

mastina, but I guess she's a mason
house turboed a mizzle and assumed he'd get away with it
Dwlee repped into a null slot and has done nothing to improve it
Titus is being titus, so she gets to 3-p
enchant just seems engaged and working a problem

I want mastina to be scum, but I can't have that, so house/dwlee without looking back at anything

[Galron]

If we lim Galron today, Dwlee is scum

if I die tonight because killing me is his only shot at winning the game with Galron's

TMI clearing me because I'm his best shot at the game winning mislim which evaporates with Galron's flip.

With my death, he can attempt to railroad Enchant, the other townie that everybody is dying to kill.

Is Galron red or green in this scenario? You seem to take the result for granted.

Bolded is only possible with a Mason partner or scum flip.

Since we're not Masons...

I'm looking at this because you have dwlee and me as partners

[Galron]

It does feel like House and Galron are separate alignments here.

I dunno if we're separate alignments, but he's gunning after me for some reason I can't fathom atm

[Galron]

Galron/Enchant, how certain are you House is scum?

Not playing this game. May as well lim me.

[Galron]

If we lim Galron today, Dwlee is scum if I die tonight because killing me is his only shot at winning the game with Galron's TMI clearing me because I'm his best shot at the game winning mislim which evaporates with Galron's flip.

I think you need to explain this sentence.

[Galron]

This is going into Wednesday isn't it,

Ayup. I saw the proscutor filed a motion in limine to prevent any mention of this game.

[Galron]

Also since I'm already shitting in people's cereal bowls, I would currently bet the game on

House/Taly/mastina/Titus

town and no I'm not perpetuating this weird "cool kids" label that has been imposed on our interactions.

Early on Taly would have {dwlee,galron}

[Galron]

Btw i checked picks. I remembered how Hider died...
And that we possible have roleblocker.

Dwlee99 never claimed mafia picks or i didn't find.
Mine are 1-Shot Strongman, Macho, Informed.
House are:
Ascetic Multitasking Rolestopper/Rolecop
Ascetic Multitasking Hider/Watcher
Ascetic Strongman
Titus are:
Combined Rolecop, Loyal Neighborizer and Loyal Doctor Traitor
Combined Disloyal Universal Backup and Encryptor
Combined Personal Alien Mailman
Galron are:
Town: 2-shot bulletproof gunsmith
Mafia: Loud Alien, 2-shot Strongman
Mastinas are: 1-Shot Strongman, 1-Shot Universal Backup, PT Cop

I realize that this is a list of alive players, but you stuck Cheeky's death in there to to say that there should be a roleblocker. I'm not sure why you did any of that, but Greeting submitted Mafia Roleblocker, so that could be a thing. And I really don't know how that would've worked in Cheeky's death.

[Galron]

Not that informed, who you called goose.

Like why kill someone AND roleblock them.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but don't non-kill actions resolve first, then kill actions.

[Galron]

And actually, if Cheeky's hider was roleblocked, and she was the NK, that kinda takes care of that doesn't it.

[Galron]

I don't remember if that was mod confirmed, but that could be it. It would've helped if Zefiend saidhe jailed N1

[Galron]

It couldn't have been the shooter I don't think

[Galron]

Damnit, I wasn't done that post. Okay, where I left off:

Scorpius can absolutely AtE as scum. We backed off him in wildlife (mini normal) but he was scum. I haven't seen Scorpius as town unless this one, but do not use the ate as a clearing method. I want to review that game to compare the style of ate, because Scorpius couldn't have known I'd replace in and be able to analyze this, but that'll be not a phone post.

I'm like fine with Meg wagon but I'm really not sure how people read them cause they always are scummy.

Saw vote count as well so
UNVOTE:

I am going to start here.
VOTE: Scorpius
Pending comparing the AtE

Scorpius was AtEing this game, I'll find examples later.

I wasn't fine with Meg's elimination in 702. I was in 844 cause I didn't like the Enchant vote

Could be distancing I guess but I kind of doubt it.

[Galron]

I don't remember if that was mod confirmed, but that could be it. It would've helped if Zefiend saidhe jailed N1

Jailkept players cannot be acted upon.

That's standard mechanics.

What I'm saying is that zefiend should have told us who he blocked N1. I just found it -- he jailed because he TR Taly the most N1. So If a roleblocker blocked Cheeky, she wouldn't have been able to use her hider, and then the maf shooter would've been able to shoot her. But I think you're saying that because Taly was Jailed, Cheeky's hider was unable to be used, so she was the direct kill.

[Galron]

Here is what I sumbitted:
Town: 2-shot bulletproof gunsmith
Mafia: Loud Alien, 2-shot Strongman

I already claimed VT. I can't be a loud alien since no one has said I visited them. Possibly could be the 2-shot strongman, but I would have used those N1 and N2. A choice between scorpious making the kill on N2 or me wold make more sense from me if we had a no-death on N1 and wanted to get it right N2.

[Galron]

Guess that doesn't mean I can't be a goon though.

[Galron]

I don't remember if that was mod confirmed, but that could be it. It would've helped if Zefiend saidhe jailed N1

Jailkept players cannot be acted upon.

That's standard mechanics.

What I'm saying is that zefiend should have told us who he blocked N1. I just found it -- he jailed because he TR Taly the most N1. So If a roleblocker blocked Cheeky, she wouldn't have been able to use her hider, and then the maf shooter would've been able to shoot her. But I think you're saying that because Taly was Jailed, Cheeky's hider was unable to be used, so she was the direct kill.

That's what Occam's Razor leads me to.

Occam's led me to the other thing, but okay then.

[Galron]

Jailkeeping not Alien.

Jail protects only from kills.

Blocks all night actions incoming and outgoing.

[Galron]

I'm about done with this mech talk. I don't think it's leading anywhere. But

N1 Cheeky killed, Taly jailed
N2 No kill, scorpious jailed
N3 zefiend killed

The weird thing is that in his post 1588 where he claims, he says he jailed Scorpious not because he thought Scrop may be a shooter but because Scorp was a claimed PR, and Zefiend thought he was a possible target despite listing all the bad stuff Scorp had done. I think zefiend deserves an emmy for this because I don't think he believed that Scorp was town at all, and Zefiend was setting himself up to last a bit longer.

Spoiler:

I jailed Scorpious. Isn't there a discrepancy between what Scorpious claimed to submit and what he claimed?

Man, I am so lame. Everyone asked for all these exotic roles and I’m here, like yeah! Role blocker!!

Admittedly this is my first u pick

I picked
Ninja
JOAT
Roleblocker

With a town preference

I’m so boring

7+ days passed and no one decapitated, wtf stale game.

VOTE: Scorpious

I agree, watching house feed his ego is getting old.

I’m a 1-shot Neapolitan and I was blocked last night looking at Zefiend..

I jailed him on the off-chance that he was somehow telling the truth, and is another town PR, because I figured that scum might be inclined to shoot claimed PRs. However, they might be afraid of myself being protected.

So is it more likely that there is a discrepancy in Scorpious' claims and was the NK target last night,

or is it more likely that Scorpious was chosen to perform the NK?

Given how bad most of Scorpious' votes have been all game, then IF he is scum, I would think that the scum team would judge him to be on shakiest ground, and therefore least risk in performing the NK.

Meg vote --> bad
Cheeky vote --> bad
Another Meg vote --> bad again
Enchant vote --> lazy but fine
Dwlee vote --> I don't understand it, maybe fine
zefiend vote --> bad
flea vote --> bad

In my opinion Scorpious is not a prime NK target, since if he were actually telling the truth, his powers are used up and now from scum's perspective he would just be a Named VT. I think even if you toss out Taly and I from NK pool because scum is scared of protection, there are better targets than Scorpious.

So I am inclined to believe Scorpious was sent to perform the kill and would be willing to vote there.

Taly

, I find it discouraging that you feel a lack of teamwork. I am here and can work with you. If you can help me flesh out some town-reads that would be great because right now nobody else is screaming town to me.

[Galron]

G'nite

[Galron]

Submitted roles: Roleblocker, Role Cop, Neighbour
Town preference.

Yume/Dwlee

[Galron]

Cheeky Day 1 moves her vote around (I need to do more of that actually). From House to Scorpious to Galron and finally to Meg. In between you can see her solving; In 221 she has a POE of {Galron, mastina,

Taly

,

Greeting

,

zefiiend

and

Scorpious

} She bumps zefiend out to a TR not long after that.

In 302 she is suspecting

one of {titus, House, mastina,

Taly

}
{

scorpious

}and
one of {

Greeting

,

zefiend

, Enchant}

A page later she says she town reads

zefiend

and that leaves her with{Galron, House,

Taly

,

Scorpious

} and she then goes on to TR Galron soon after

Then way at the end she makes a bit a hero solve I guess {

Scorpious

, House,

Greeting

} that she admits is weak.

But before jumping on House, there's this from Scorpious, which may spew House town, the last sentence in particular.

Spoiler:

I was fine with what house had said about not sweating the small stuff until this. Cheeky keeps defaulting to me, and I still have no idea why. Like I have ZERO to go off of,except a 3 sentence case that made no sense.

So far these 2 have been the only ones to really push me, I guess meg, but that's so weak that's not even worth worrying about.

Plus the extra comments like "He's not going to respond to pressure anyway..." What is that?

Why are you constantly Goading me?

How can someone that says they intentionally ignored a question audacious enough to want to wagon someone else when they have not given any semblance of reasoning to why?

I think House and Cheeky are connected.

VOTE: Cheeky

I was hoping to find some dis-associatives in Cheeky's ISO, but really she made several good pushes on Scorpious, House and mastina. So if I'm reading Cheeky's mind, she's going after House, Galron or mastina today. Likely not mastina because of the mason claim. So probably House and me, and maybe not even me.

I want to do a couple more of thsese.

*Cheeky flipped hider

[Galron]

As told before, mafia blocking and killing same person first night is meeh...

Yeah, and I didn't see anything in Cheeky's ISO that would look blockable unless they caught her crumbs w/ Taly at the end.

[Galron]

Maybe I was wrong on greeting idk. Anyone who does meta would receive my adoration for the rest of the game if they could look into them.

{Scorpious, House, Greeting} seems warmer.

Does house unvote a potential mislim though? Like I can see what enchant is saying with the claim fishing but as scum do you give up the non-buddy flip for a potential PR lim? Something something bird in the hand.

I think House and Cheeky are connected.

VOTE: Cheeky

Thank you for confirming my suspicions on house.

I think she was being very coy about Taly, not scumreading him at all, but she obv had 2d thoughts about house.

[Galron]

As told before, mafia blocking and killing same person first night is meeh...

As told before, mafia blocking and killing same person first night is meeh...

Yeah, and I didn't see anything in Cheeky's ISO that would look blockable unless they caught her crumbs w/ Taly at the end.

Enchant's post somehow bugs me here, even though I kinda give in to his invitation to brush it off. It's like I'm being told "Yeah well you know that's how it goes," and I play right into it.

It seems there's a fairly even split over whether enchant is town right?

And if someone goes out of their way to make a response to you, who brought the subject up, then there's a thing that exists. So here, Enchant is making something he says is not a thing, a thing.

[Galron]

I got there by reading Scorpious's ISO, and there really wasn't much there. Just interactions with the now-dead, House and Enchant. The spats with House I think would meet the criteria, whatever you define that as, of not S/S. So seeing as Scorp flipped red, House almost has to be town. As far as Enchant, there weren't any arguments I don't think, and it was all perfunctory, no solving. So in looking at Scorp's ISO, I'd +town House and +scum enchant.

[Galron]

I missed hammer testing.

[Galron]

I'm not just going to roll over.

VOTE: House

I don't think your solve is right, Titus. I don't think Enchant is scum.

[Galron]

I can't.

[Galron]

gj mafs

thanks for the game mizzy