Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

loved the coral walls, though that may be because they're calling me town

in more seriousness, the part that stood out to me is 1541. the rest of the case i could more easily see coming from scum, since it's made in a retelling-day-1 sort of way. but 1541 is a read that... well i don't think it's very convincing because it's making assumptions that don't have to be correct and might not even be likely to be correct, but the

creativity

of that read is something i rarely see from scum. not just because it's rarely convincing to town, but because they simply don't think of stuff like that. obviously ymmv based on meta, but it's +town.

reading the rest of the case reminded me of something else, though...

[Datisi]

scamper, did anything ever come from 1441?

and, based on you saying how "nitpicking is +scum from me" and apparently having secret tells on me, i take it you're decently familiar with my scumgame. how is your read on my overall play this game influenced by meta? and ik you said my interactions w galron weren't as strong as you remembered them, but 1271 is the only negative i see there and you said yourself those quotes were out of context, have you gone back to check them?

i guess you're likely to comment on this anyway since coral did just talk a lot about my day 1, but this part is something i want a response on ig

ok, breakfast, then i'm doing the thing i've been procrastinating on and actually rereading d1

[Datisi]

Hi!

very okay with a hammer on galron, still catching up and will see if there's anything I think needs to be responded to before then

what were your thoughts behind this post, coral? (ik it might seem like a dumb q but bear with me)

[Datisi]

there is something really funny about the fact that both scamper and coral were townreading phoenix, and then started arguing about eachother's reasons for townreading phoenix

scamper is a competent scum player so i could definitely see them trying to get attention off of phoenix, but doing so by attacking phoenix's defender which instinctually looks non-partnered

and oof, i called out both scamper and phoenix for pushing what i thought were ez misyeets, if scamper really is scum, i'm a genius

259 (and galron's response in 285) feel like they should be +town for scamper, because i feel like scamper would've coached galron much better on how to respond to that and how to make that interaction seem less-partnery, while i can more easily see coral telling galron something along the lines of "tell scamper you see things differently and ask why does that make you mafia"

i'm also assuming that scamper would've told galron to keep responding to his response to that, but galron lowkey lurked out soon after so this isn't as good

i still think the way scamper approached the ari/aus argument is +town, but less than i thought so before because scamper obviously knows a few things about me - and it's likely he'd have known that (1) i was gonna recognize ari/aus being a t/t shitfest, and (2) that i have the capacity of shutting that down if i want to

chugging two cups of coffee while playing yeetlo was a bad idea bc i'm getting heart flutters now but anyway where were we

and being a miller exponentially increases the chance of a town Rolecop existing btw since it gives it utility.

lmao

scamper also probably shouldn't be getting as many town points as i thought for trying to ~sort~ me via voting me bc i see that vote was like, argued against my ausuka right away, so if he's scum ten he was probably never planning on actually yeeting me anyway? or like, i think still my yeet would be more of an uphill battle than needed

but also he didn't vote-to-sort many other people, or like anyone i think?, so that probably wasn't a looking-for-alternatives vote, so still somewhat +town

My guess would be that it's one of Galron or Xayah

but not both

, alongside... Don or Datisi? I haven't thought about that too much but it feels reasonable

why did you say "but not both" here?

god it really fucking sucks that coral wasn't around when i was drunk and there was a lot of pressure around don, because i think it would've been really informative to see how she played around that

@scamper, how strongly were you scumreading don around page 28? because your vote is still on me (and it's not doing much there), and it seems don's somewhat decently being scumread by the thread, any reason you didn't vote him at the time?

ok this is where galron claimed and he was basically gone after that so wtv, i need to go to work anyway

current thought is that i might actually be leaning coral here??? like, some of scamper's posts are obviously like, bad in retrospect, but there seemed to be multiple points where he could've argued against a galron elim harder than he did. like if scum, it seems like he was planning on throwing shade on multiple people and hoping someone latches onto it so that galron doesn't flip, *but* he didn't do that in one of the bigger shitfights of arivaus, and there were better arguments he could've done against possible misyeets

like, if he's scum then he kinda-but-not-really let galron die, and that feels weird? at least it feels weird from a more experienced player, i probably would've been scumreading that from a newer player

and i'm wondering if d1 would've played out differently if a scumbuddy was more present, which scamper was, but coral wasn't really, at least not in the latter parts of the day

ok i really gotta go, i'll think about this more at work and also hope that the responses of you two shed some light on this for me

it has started to actually sink in for me how short the deadline is

fuck this game

[scamper]

yeah i'll try to get to this stuff but it is a lot to address and i have real life obligations to take care of first


i will say that my thinking is if none of us want to vote first (and it seems like none of us want to vote first) than we can at least have people say who they want to vote first, and if two of us agree then the 3rd person has to be the one to place a vote

[scamper]

Spoiler:

VOTE: meg

i think i wanna start here. i disliked some of their posts, and also the jump on galron in retrospect looks kinda weird. idk it's midnight, i'm trusting my past self right now.

ari(gamma)/ausuka/probscamper still town on play. and i think xayah is Town, Actually. i don't think scum!her, upon seeing galron be about to go down, starts putting me and ausuka oin her most bottom tier, because, uh. i really don't think that we're viable executions here.

coral i need to take a second look at too, i guess. coming tomorrow before my shift. most likely.

Xayah is my thought for partner atm. I feel like the 180 last minute feels like scum trying to catch the bus last minute.
The done kill is interesting, haven't considered the ramifications yet.

Is it overthinking to call this towny? I mean I'm not sure scum meg plays exactly this way. Like, definitely I can see them townreading scamper, but it feels like they're placing more of an emphasis on towncasing scamper vs scumcasimg xayah, whereas I feel like it's more intuitive for scum to do it in reverse. Does that make sense?

ehh... i lowkey got tmi vibes from their towncase post on scamper. because scum rn has to have reads anyway, and i think (1) it's easier to make correct townreads than scumreads, (2) it's easier to stay consistent with them, especially if you're towncasing someone who obviously isn't among the first people on the chopping block

i feel like it's meg because their play kind of just *fits* with what i'd assume buddy-with-galron would be doing. his slot started getting negative attention pretty early on in the game. your partner going down d1 is bad, in a micro normal it's Bad because you could just get fucked over with tprs. but i don't think there was anything to actually townread galron *on*, so what do you do? you hope for distractions. you stir up shit and hope people go to other slots. and i'm reminded now that meg did that both with ari in ausuka/ari, and with scamper.

this usually wouldn't be an issue by itself, but the fact that the arguments they've made about those two were not very good and were consistently getting called out as not very good and just kinda feel inflammatory is hm.

like, i guESS it's possible the partner was just not here and/or not doing anything to stop the wagon but i feel like it's somewhat unlikely both scum just decided to flop because. idk because the universe doesn't like me that much.

i'm not mad??? i'm not even 100% on meg being scum bc if i were i would be pushing much more strongly there. i'm just trying to Solve The Game, sorry if i came off condescending or something, wasn't my intention

@meg, can you give me some examples of coral posts that you found analytically/nuancedly townie?

i just half-read through her iso, and while her posts aren't

bad

, i don't think i've seen anything that struck me as "this is analytical in a way that i really struggle seeing scum fake this". i don't think she's scum for it obviously, but it does make me wanna see more elaboration on the claim she's town for it.

i do think 476 and 482 (calling ari/ausuka/meg townie when they were shitfighting) are +town, considering that galron was already getting suspicion on him, and ausuka had just called out more of his posts. like, coral was at the time voting xayah, and i don't think that wagon was very likely to go though. and she also said she's still suspicious of don, which had a bit more chance to go though, but galron was already voting there and i don't think(?) scum is eager to double up like that in that gamestate. and the next person she'd logically push would be galron, based on 279.

this also strikes me as a counterintuitive progression to have as scum with galron. it doesn't help galron, it doesn't look good as a bus.

i wish i was confident enough on xayah!town to try to hijack the thread, but i'm not. maybe i'm wrong. even if i'm not wrong, this flip is probably needed anyway.

i am interested in hearing xayah's thoughts on scamper, though. and if she has meta on gamma, i'm likely to just locktown that slot even further (and then blame xayah if we lose because of it).

mmm
gut is telling me it is Probably Just Meg Still, but

i really wanna see what meg and scamper put out first
and i wanna properly revisit a few events on day one to make sure i'm not retconning them in my mind

maybe massclaim today too, i'll decide tomorrow

ok off to bed, see ya in the morning

dats, for having a non-vt result on meg, it feels like you never really pressured them strongly or asked them to claim or tried to persuade other people on the read, and i have to ask why you didnt push that harder? i realize a non-vt from a nea is not a true guilty but on a reread i couldnt help but feel your approach was oddly lackadaisical

i did not want to make it obvious that my read on meg is informed with a result, because if they are scum and realized that, they would probably be trying to guess what kind of guilty i have and claim a role that explains it

like, if i out of the blue asked them to claim, that probably doesn't end well, whether they're town or scum

i was still trying to sort them with my result because i really did not want to shitpush a power role into claiming and i was trying to guess how hard i wanna go after them

also, those two quotes happened after meg softed/claimed non-vt so idk why you're including them

this is all from iso so i couldn't check for context necessarily but wanted to check your thought process here because i wasn't sure if the actions necessarily fit the claim

[scamper]

This is where both scamper and Datisi's positioning towards Galron kinda flip. Galron has some entrance posts, Xayah and Datisi think they are at least decent, and Datisi moves his vote off, onto me. scamper then votes Galron in 259, criticizing the entrance.

scamper's switch onto Galron here is something that actually drew my attention when I was first looking back at things either night 1 or night 2. Phoenix could be written off as newbie and he efforts enough to probably dodge being eliminated day 1, although he would likely still be a candidate. Galron, though... in this playerlist, with Datisi and Ausuka as relatively charismatic players already suspicious of the slot, and Ari sheeping Datisi... Galron isn't going to post enough to get townread here, and in all likelihood will just die. scamper knows all this, and seeing two people call the entrance good for bad reasons, could have seen an opportunity here to jump in and pressure and get ahead of things, looking like they are going against the grain of town consensus onto scum. Of course, it's also possible that Datisi scum would want to back off for the same reason but opposite conclusion, realizing that if he wants a town elim day 1, he should find somewhere else to push quickly. Both possibilities are believable at this point.

i awsnt to point out this bit because the logic here is really strange to me

because when i was rereading, i felt like that was the sequence that was *most* +town for me. with a fresh replacement in the slot, and a bunch of people townreading him for bad reasons, that is the perfect opportunity to get eyes off the slot, and i do the opposite of that. i go in on the attack, i directly criticize galrons reasoning, i dispute people saying his posts were good. i dont do that as scum if i dont have to. in the mini normal, while i pushed on johnny for lurking excessively, i found excuses to unvote him if i could, when people were wrongly townreading him i mostly let it happen - i think i said i was unsure on him a few times but i didnt *directly attack him**. i won bus if i dont have to and that is especially true in a micro cuz you can lose the game thru night actions after a day 1 scumflip. so in this position i think attacking galron is clearly +town or should be seen as such.

(theres also a little thing about how galron pushing don was technically in defense of me and how i dont really think he has the guts to defend a partner like that,and how i was suspicious of don there (i think) but immediately chose to attack galron instead because his reasoning was bad. but those are smaller points that may not be as convincing).


so what i find puzzling is you examine tha same sequence and your first interpretation of it is to assign *scum* motivation to it, by suggesting i am trying to "get ahead of things" by opposing town consensus and pushing on galron. and to me that is a really weird and counter-intuitive conclusion to reach? like anything of course can be a bus. and from your pov one of us has to have bussed. but to go "this person was pushing scum against thread consensus so they were probably trying to get ahead of things" just doesn't make much sense to me. why can't i just be town who correctly scumread galron's entrance? and if i'm "going against thread consensus" what am i trying to get "ahead" of, exactly? you act like the slot was destined to die because datisi was scumreading it, but datisi was one of the people who backed off because of galron's entrance. so this really doesnt make sense to me...

[scamper]

Next there's a lot of back and forth with Ari thinking that Ausuka and Datisi are scum, Ausuka voting Ari (putting her at 3 votes), Don kind of existing in the conversation and seeming to agree with Ari. Datisi and scamper then both townread Ari, so no real difference there. scamper then starts suspecting and pushing on Don starting around 418, and continuing with 423, 431, 435, and 450. In 458, they add a suspicion of Datisi, and then unvote Galron since he doesn't fit in teams that they see.

Ignoring Ari vs Meg since it isn't really relevant here. scamper gets into it with Meg a bit as well, sometimes kinda suspects, mostly is just annoyed. Right after this is where thread sentiment starts to shift towards Galron again, with Ausuka re-voting in 564, Datisi reaffirming his suspicion in 583, and me mentioning my growing suspicion there in 595.

The mistake I made earlier was thinking that scamper didn't ever attempt to find a town elim as an alternative to Galron, because I only looked at where they voted, on Datisi and Meg. But they laid far more groundwork on Don, continuing here with 612 and 615, trying to convince Ausuka of the case. I think that there was enough latent suspicion of Don that scum could see him as the most likely miselim here, and it's something that I missed until I looked back overnight. scamper was the one who did most of the heavy lifting for the case, pushing people on that direction from the sidelines, pushing down on townreads, and generally trying to prod things in that direction.

i definitely did turn around to suspecting don at that point because i disagreed so heavily with his reasoning about ne of the most active players having to be scum and i was *so* invested in ari-town that him pushing on her felt really slimy, because scum need elims to in he game and are going to want to discredit a tilt-clear like that. i was maybe a bit myopic but i didnt see how a townie could look at how ari played that sequence and see her as scum. i also felt like the fact that he kept making gestures at writing cases, but never actully getting around to finishing them was +scum. if he had actually gone for the throat on me and presented a scumcase i probably would have townread him for it for the overconfidence, but the fact he said he was going to do it and backed off made me think he might have seen me as an easy push at first and then realized i wasnt going to go down so easily, so he backed off. when he did similar later i sniped at him for it

ti that point, i was definitely finding don scummy but i wasn't prepared to push him, and i dont really remember why. i think my main priority was on sorting datisi and there was either something i wanted to hear from don on or some reason i had doubts but i never felt like i should be going after don directly. i think if i wanted to i probably could have built a case on him and might have made him a serious push as scum.

actually on reflection what i *might* have been thinking was that don and galron were very unlikely to be s/s, so the bset thing i could possibly do is solve outside that and find the other scum because baed on my reads there was a decent chance of a scum between them. but this is theoretical, i dont remember exactly what i was thinking however many weeks ago b/c i dont take notes

i mean, you can say i was "laying groundwork" or whatever and that is probably a little close to how i played scum in my last game, i would suggest someone as a suspect and let town do the work, but i think in this game i would have realized i needed to make actual pushes to get a wagon thru. maybe i wouldnt have. idk. but i think if i *wanted* to flip don i wuld have gone for it rather than doing what i did. a lot of my day 1 was wrapped up in trying to play like skitter and that included me voting dats but not raelly pushing him, just wantig to talk to him. i think i was playing in a way that was pretty un-tactical as scum

[scamper]

which is... very not doing anything to move things towards Don. It's even giving a convincing reason to just elim Galron. Datisi as scum would easily have room here to take advantage of scamper's Don case to push Don harder himself. He had plenty of ammunition. But despite exploring that direction a little bit, he didn't go for it. And his vote on Galron here is pretty much the nail in the coffin. Datisi was kind of the swing vote here, if he and/or Ausuka had ended up landing on Don, the end of day 1 looks very different.

this is also...really odd because it presupposed don was the viable scum driven counterwagon here when...the ones pushing it were only galron and me, sort of? and the idea that scum!tisi would push that vote and not doing so and taking any other route is towny is just weird to me

and i did think at the time that datisi moving momentum back toward galron was +town, but he didnt really agitate for other people to vote galron. i guess you could say from the tenor of his catchup posts he could have easily made a push on don instead and so the decision and timing is good but if you look at the wagon state it wasnt necessarily a guarantee people would join there. i guess what im saying is while i think its a good look for datisi but you are treating the vote as far more influential than i feel it actually was

[scamper]

i feel kind of the opposite way tbh, it feels like a lot of what he says is so underhanded like he's just trying to keep options open

I mean, maybe? Idk he just feels like he's really feeling that he's connecting the dots and solving the mystery even when I don't think he's making any sense. If that makes sense. Idk it's late.

Pedit: ok I guess I could see that?

i haven't had that feeling but idk how much i want to get into it right now

yeah i cannot remember *why* i said this, at all. but while i greatly disliked dons posting, in part because he was pushing ari and ausuka who i very strongly townread, i held back from going all-in on scumcasing him. there was a part of me that did not want to go all out going after him no matter how much i disliked him and i think had i really wanted to i could have scumcased him

[scamper]

scamper then has their argument with Meg. At the end of it, they say they want to vote Galron but doesn't want to E-1, so Meg does it. Which... probably was unexpected, actually, since they were previously voting scamper, just had a huge argument with them, and then scamper said that they wanted to vote Galron. It seems pretty possible to me that the argument could have been intentional from scum scamper, trying to draw Meg's attention and keep their vote from compromising on Galron (which they said they were willing to do in 626) due to the hope that they wouldn't want to work together with scamper.

again this is just really weird thinking because it seems to be only looking from my actions thru the lens of why i could be doing it as scum and not assessing the possibility of whether i could do it as town and which is more likely to have happened

the idea that i get into a heated thread bloating argument with someone where i accuse them of being disingenuous as a scum tactic to keep them from voting my teammate is just...rather far fetched? personally when i get into arguments as scum its because i want to discredit my attacker and maybe make things so tedious that people will tune out because hey dont awnt to hear anymore of us, so the arguments against me will fall on deaf ears. i think u could very plausibly think that was what i was doing here and i wouldn't have a problem with it. i think if i was scum i would have actually tried to push meg strongly rather than just staking potshots at them and implying they are bad. i did bbriefly make a vote on them but it was an emotionalone and i retracted it later, i would have no problem going full bore calling meg lockscum if i was scum. but since i am town my job is to acually try to figure out peoples alignment and not just blindly try to kill them because they displease me


so again, the thought that i got into an argument with meg *to keep their vote off galron* is just bizarre to me

[scamper]

2) Datisi switching off Galron when he replaces in, and scamper switching onto Galron. Both could be scum-motivated. The most important thing here to me is that Datisi's switch off mostly only makes sense if he is then afterwards trying to case people and move things towards a town elimination.

the thing is, hypothetically, does scum!tisi need to actually push townies that much after moving off galron? if no one is pushing him and people are giving his partner some grace he can stay in the background and not have to push anyone. he called ari/ausuka/meg townie but called everyone else muddy so its not like he was cutting off his options.

3) scamper laying the groundwork for a Don elimination. I think this looks especially bad with Galron showing up clearly thinking that a Don elim is likely. But even without that, the suspicion comes at a convenient time, they try to gather others to their cause, all while voting elsewhere in a way that looks like they're just sorting or emotional voting (on Datisi and Meg, respectively). All along, though, the main trajectory is towards allowing a Don push to be possible. If there were more options of who could be scum beyond just these two, I might consider how scamper as scum maybe could have gone all in to push Don harder and yet didn't, but the thing is...

i already addressed this but again, the idea tht i somehow look worse from galron thinking a don elimination is likely is just weird to me. like, does scum think someone is a good elim target because their buddy is pushing it? what townies support were we actually counting on? why didnt i try to actually wagon him or convince anyone?

4) ...Datisi did far less in terms of pushing town. Look at his ISO between the point where he unvoted Galron (228) and when he re-voted (701). I can't find any serious attempt to push town there. Even the vote on me is for a small reason, is mostly for pressure, and isn't really ever pursued any further. There's a lot of townreads of people, discussion, inquiries, pushing back on the scumreads people have on town. It all just looks like town trying to solve the game to me. I don't see any underlying agenda of someone who needs to find a way to eliminate town. When it gets to the point in the game where it looks like Don is a possible alternative, Datisi does find a couple reasons to be suspicious there, and then... votes for Galron. He doesn't take the town miselim that's sitting in front of him, he goes back to scum. He doesn't ever case or push anyone. And it's not like he's committed to the bus the whole time, he doesn't really ever take any efforts to make his position around the wagon look towny either.

i mean, the thing is as scum sometimse its beneficial to not want to get your hands dirty, so i'm not really sure this all is as clearing as you are treating it, at all

and i feel like...my entire approach to dats was the same, it was just for pressure/because i wanted to sort him, i think by that point in time i had developed a lot of townreads as well, you ar treating us as though are actions were wildly different and apart from me getting into a figh with meg i dont think they were...

[scamper]

and scamper, I obviously don't expect a response from you on everything. if you are town who thinks that I'm town who has come to the wrong conclusions, what I would most like to hear from you is why you think my reasons are flawed for thinking Datisi's play day 1 doesn't make sense if he's scum, and what you think his plans and motivations were

i'm not gonna do that. my goal right now is not to sell you on scum!datisi, cuz i am still not sure if he is...

i asked you to explain why you thought day 1 made me more likely to be scum because i wanted to see your thinking so i could better sort you. i can't say i felt your responses were all that helpful...

[scamper]

loved the coral walls, though that may be because they're calling me town

in more seriousness, the part that stood out to me is 1541. the rest of the case i could more easily see coming from scum, since it's made in a retelling-day-1 sort of way. but 1541 is a read that... well i don't think it's very convincing because it's making assumptions that don't have to be correct and might not even be likely to be correct, but the

creativity

of that read is something i rarely see from scum. not just because it's rarely convincing to town, but because they simply don't think of stuff like that. obviously ymmv based on meta, but it's +town.

reading the rest of the case reminded me of something else, though...

i actually think that read is just really bad and ridiculous

because first of all it's implying a degree of communication that rarely happens in scum PTs, and secondly its trying me to him because we both were pushig don to some extent. and that doesnt really make sense. if i am pushing a don elim to that point i have done a really poor job actually persuading anyone. so the idea that i go and tell galron "dw, i got this, we can kill don, just keep pushing him" is ??? to me.

and like, coral has played scum before. she knows this is not how scum teams operate or how they communicate. this doesnt really make sense.

[Datisi]

i mean, the thing is as scum sometimse its beneficial to not want to get your hands dirty, so i'm not really sure this all is as clearing as you are treating it, at all

do you think *in this scenario*, with galron being in the position that he was, it would've been beneficial?

[scamper]

scamper, did anything ever come from 1441?

i didn't answer it because i had't finished checking open 857. and i kind of think you exaggerate the extent to how "attention-grabby" your push on penguin was that game but i also think you have no reason to lie about that this game and its likely you just remembered it different. its true you were on phoe early bu i dont think its *impossible* for you tp pressure a teammate early in a game either

and, based on you saying how "nitpicking is +scum from me" and apparently having secret tells on me, i take it you're decently familiar with my scumgame. how is your read on my overall play this game influenced by meta? and ik you said my interactions w galron weren't as strong as you remembered them, but 1271 is the only negative i see there and you said yourself those quotes were out of context, have you gone back to check them?

i think it's obviousl influenced that way, kind of unavoidably. i think the hard thing for me is i dont really remember what town!you looks like (obv there was the mini normal but having that perspective as scum warps things and you were playing that weirdly early on anyway

i think i checked but never write anything about it so i checked again. there was some vague anti-galron sentiment in the prior pages from ari (before she went off at meg, meg mentioned not liking his play, i had backed off pushign him for worldbuilding reasons, and ausuka was redoubling her push on galron there. so again while i think its a good look i dont think its *definitely unpartnered*

[scamper]

i mean, the thing is as scum sometimse its beneficial to not want to get your hands dirty, so i'm not really sure this all is as clearing as you are treating it, at all

do you think *in this scenario*, with galron being in the position that he was, it would've been beneficial?

i dunno

maybe you don't want to look too hard like youre trying to save him. but he was definitely not going to posting enough to get townread. there were definitely enough tvt fights going that you *could* have exploited them. but i dont necessarily like to think about things in terms of what somene *could* have done but rather what they actually *did* and what the motives for it aer

[Datisi]

i mean that's fair, i'm just saying

you say that it could be beneficial for scum to hang back sometimes

what do you think is the possible benefit for scumtisi to be doing that then?

[scamper]

259 (and galron's response in 285) feel like they should be +town for scamper, because i feel like scamper would've coached galron much better on how to respond to that and how to make that interaction seem less-partnery, while i can more easily see coral telling galron something along the lines of "tell scamper you see things differently and ask why does that make you mafia"

tbf again both of u are like, overestimating the extent of scum communication. i dont get that hands on unless my partner is a really struggling newbie and galron is not that. usually people just kind of operate autonomously with maybe a little discussion on broad strategy but they dont pre-plan the details of interactions like that. you can see how i communicated with johnny in the mini normal pt, we hardly discussed fine points like that

i would say him responding to me in that way is because he knows i am town but i ajm clearly biased and i dont think a single line is that likely to be compelling evidence

[scamper]

i mean that's fair, i'm just saying

you say that it could be beneficial for scum to hang back sometimes

what do you think is the possible benefit for scumtisi to be doing that then?

i would say, hypothetically, in that situation, if you are scum, you are hanging back and staying out of the fray while the thread gets consumed by tvt fights and hoping that one of them gets big enugh that it leads to an elim. thats my speculation, anyway

[Coral]

Good morning, friends

Before responding to all these things I'll say that I think scamper's idea about voting is rather nifty and I think it probably benefits town, so I'm good with it if Datisi is?

[Coral]

Well, good midday and good evening, actually, I suppose.

[Datisi]

and i kind of think you exaggerate the extent to how "attention-grabby" your push on penguin was that game but i also think you have no reason to lie about that this game and its likely you just remembered it different. its true you were on phoe early bu i dont think its *impossible* for you tp pressure a teammate early in a game either

i had legit never done the "this is the vc, i want EVERYONE to give thoughts and stances" and whatever bs i did there, which is what i am thinking of, so i wouldn't say i'm exaggerating

i think you may be talking about two different things here bc pressuring a teammate is one thing, but actually getting on him (with intent to yeet, which i'm assuming is implied here) is another thing

like i am definitely capable of pressuring buddies early as scum

[Datisi]

Good morning, friends

Before responding to all these things I'll say that I think scamper's idea about voting is rather nifty and I think it probably benefits town, so I'm good with it if Datisi is?

on one hand, i'm good with it because i know we gotta get a move on

on the other, i wanna keep lying to myself that we still have time

but yeah we can fake vote i agree

[Datisi]

and like, coral has played scum before. she knows this is not how scum teams operate or how they communicate. this doesnt really make sense.

the reason why that struck me as town is because like, i know the read is not very convincing and unrealistic, but that's also why i just don't think scum thinks of it, and even if they do think of it, they don't write it out bc it's easy to get shut down and it's not convincing for basically anyone

maybe scum!coral thought it was a clever point idk, but it struck me as not as likely to come from scum