Mini Normal 2291: Greentexts | Mafia Wins!

[Frogsterking]

I'm thinking.

[Crescent]

Honestly I don't want to do much more thinking tonight. I haven't had any kitten time today.

[Cephrir]

#187 and #188 are about as useless as posts pretending to be content get. It basically just invents a semantical reason to throw shade on the leading vote. I see little similarity between what I've seen of him this game and the game you linked to earlier.

I assume you mean post #186 and #187.

Post #186 was just calling you out on your false accusation about me instantly calling BBT scum; when I was targetting you and not them.

Post #187 does not in anyway throw shade on a vote.

Clone, where do you feel like Frog was setting up to vote you?

His questioning my experience on Mafia and trying to get an idea of my meta plays seem a bit shady. Feels like a false attempt to start an analysis. From his perspective, it seems inevitable that I will get voted. He leads into a minor accusation (as hes done already), which would then progress as I get pushed.

Not necessarily agreeing about frogsterking but that feels like a real thought process

[Cephrir]

Oh and to further the point about #177 and #178, perspective slips don't really exist when it comes to nouns and pronouns. I once saw a town throw a game at lylo because someone accidentally referred to the scum team as "we" and was voted off strictly for that.

Couldn't care less that there's four interchangeable terms for not-town and he decided to use the one that people generally haven't been using this game so far.

It actually kind of bugs me a bit that FK didn't call this out because I believe he's a player that should know how meaningless the argument was.

It just pings me. Cool with your input on it and happy if it doesn't ping others. Just sticks out to me because subconscious slips are a thing. They've happened before, they'll happen again. Just because you can mention one game where it was wrong to follow this logic, doesn't mean all games and situations will always be just like that.

Your last bit means more to me than your opinion on my opinions though. You thinking Frog is off for not calling out something you think he should. Do you think Frog is trying to buddy me then?

FYI since this is a Normal game it's almost 100% guaranteed the scum are called mafia

[Cephrir]

It amounts to little more than a glorified gut feeling. I feel like the vote came from the right place and it town vibes me.

Quick question Elements: If you haven't caught up yet, why jump on the leading vote without a reason?

Pretty big reversal from what you were saying before but ok

[Cephrir]

I think frogsterking is town

[Frogsterking]

@

Crescent

Okay. I have some concrete thoughts on what you said about Kowah.

Kowah takes the initiative against Cephrir in the 4 post exchange which is important IMO. That means that Kowah wasn't forced into the 1v1 and chose to create it of their own volition. Cephrir was dissing you (Crescent) by saying that you are reading too much into things; in other words the negative post which caused Kowah to FoS Cephrir

wasn't

addressed to him, it was addressed to

you

. I think it's obvious that Kowah has no agenda to pocket you (right?? idk) so now already you have to ask yourself whether the motivations of the hypothetical scum!Kowah you are seeing can even hold up in practice, as if you aren't going to defend Kowah later, what does Kowah have to gain in interjecting on your behalf?

Overall, Kowahbunga isn't being reactive below, they are being proactive because Cephrir had not targeted Kowahbunga at all up to this point AFAIK:

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

Frog's issues with my post could also be deemed "reading too much into things" but you agree enough with him to vote me for the same reason. Yet you want to tell someone else they're reading too much into things? This is made even more interesting that you find it okay to agree with Frog's reach but don't like someone that you claim is reaching, reaching against Frog.

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

My issue is not with the vote being minimal or not. My issue is that you used the same reason to vote for me as you used to discredit someone else's opinion.

You told that someone they're "reading too much into something" which is 100% a scum POV thing to say because any one that is town here should be reading everything with a fine tooth comb. Whether it was on page 2 or 200 doesn't matter.

Yeah I've seen scum write similar things too, everything Kow writes makes me paranoid...really paranoid...I don't scum that though I guess because it's almost always Town which is making me feel really paranoid rather than scum.

There are a few moments which break from the tradition of where a hypothetical scum!Kow would normally take things, and those moments make me optimistic about Kowah's alignment:

"There's nothing new about me other than this account

or my way of playing

."

I think that not all scum players include the bolded here and my feeling is that most scum players don't want to throw away the newbie card when handed to them in the first place. I feel like Kowah is asking for trouble a little bit in a way I don't think they do as scum.

[Cephrir]

@

Crescent

Okay. I have some concrete thoughts on what you said about Kowah.

Kowah takes the initiative against Cephrir in the 4 post exchange which is important IMO. That means that Kowah wasn't forced into the 1v1 and chose to create it of their own volition. Cephrir was dissing you (Crescent) by saying that you are reading too much into things; in other words the negative post which caused Kowah to FoS Cephrir

wasn't

addressed to him, it was addressed to

you

. I think it's obvious that Kowah has no agenda to pocket you (right?? idk) so now already you have to ask yourself whether the motivations of the hypothetical scum!Kowah you are seeing can even hold up in practice, as if you aren't going to defend Kowah later, what does Kowah have to gain in interjecting on your behalf?

Overall, Kowahbunga isn't being reactive below, they are being proactive because Cephrir had not targeted Kowahbunga at all up to this point AFAIK:

i think you're reading too much into things

This is a scum mindset.

VOTE: Cephir

Frog's issues with my post could also be deemed "reading too much into things" but you agree enough with him to vote me for the same reason. Yet you want to tell someone else they're reading too much into things? This is made even more interesting that you find it okay to agree with Frog's reach but don't like someone that you claim is reaching, reaching against Frog.

-crescent's post delves multiple layers deep into a post that's literally just a joke
-frog explicitly says he's not reading that much into it,

and i'm not either

- just happy with that spot for my vote on page 2, although this reaction certainly doesn't make me feel worse about it

You're not reading that much into it, but enough to put a vote for it? This is too careless to be a town POV.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

@bianco I don't think it's disingenuous, he is new and probably doesn't know that

I know that I feel your posts are not a town POV. At this stage of the game that will be all I have to play with.

I played mafia off and on starting in 2008. I've played consistently since 2014. There's nothing new about me other than this account or my way of playing.

and you've never seen someone throw a vote around on minimal basis on page 2?????

My issue is not with the vote being minimal or not. My issue is that you used the same reason to vote for me as you used to discredit someone else's opinion.

You told that someone they're "reading too much into something" which is 100% a scum POV thing to say because any one that is town here should be reading everything with a fine tooth comb. Whether it was on page 2 or 200 doesn't matter.

Yeah I've seen scum write similar things too, everything Kow writes makes me paranoid...really paranoid...I don't scum that though I guess because it's almost always Town which is making me feel really paranoid rather than scum.

There are a few moments which break from the tradition of where a hypothetical scum!Kow would normally take things, and those moments make me optimistic about Kowah's alignment:

"There's nothing new about me other than this account

or my way of playing

."

I think that not all scum players include the bolded here and my feeling is that most scum players don't want to throw away the newbie card when handed to them in the first place. I feel like Kowah is asking for trouble a little bit in a way I don't think they do as scum.

I hate to break it to you but most of this post is based on a faulty premise -- I non-RVS voted Kow in 43

[Frogsterking]

Wtf

[Frogsterking]

IDK. Maybe don't trust Kowahbunga after all.

[geraintm]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

Is this a real post or written by a bad ai?

[geraintm]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

[Clone]

Yeah the push on me had mellowed out for the time being And this vote comes out of nowhere, with no reason. The timing was really bad. If it was said 10 posts earlier, it might have been alright; but there was other discussion going on in and a random vote didnt seem valid at the time. But prehaps it was just ignorance and they might not have actually read the previous 10-20 posts.

[Crescent]

I've spent most of the last 4 hours coughing tremoring and hallucinating If anyone has an inquiry of me please quote this post with it and I will get back to you I've already cancelled my work shifts until Wednesday

[Crescent]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

If you think elements is caught why stay in person they are votung

[Frogsterking]

Do I have to accept being wrong about Clone AND Kowahbunga?

[Frogsterking]

I feel like I got really stumped in this game all of a sudden.

[biancospino]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

This is indeed not an appealing argument at all, however I think it migth have been in good faith, it's true scum are almost always called Mafia in Normals but also Kow may not entirely know the normal guidelines, as demonstrated here:

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

Let's look for a sec at FK. He burrowed Kow in his towncore, and then quickly dropped them from it as soon as 43 was pointed out; now, this would be somewhat of a hat-trick for scum!FK in a world were Kow is town, as it would actually end up blurring Kow's cred further while not appearing to be shady. I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff, so I can see the fact he put forth a towncase that would stop working after noticing 43 to be a deliberate trap, especially since the "proactive" post from Kow was 45, near on the same page

[biancospino]

I feel like I got really stumped in this game all of a sudden.

You ninja'd me, but that is really the reason I don't know what to think of you anymore. Like, I want to TR you, but for some reason I'm being paranoid you're lying there

[Frogsterking]

I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff, so I can see the fact he put forth a towncase that would stop working after noticing 43 to be a deliberate trap, especially since the "proactive" post from Kow was 45, near on the same page

With regards to "I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff", this isn't even close to how people work lol. Being perceptive is related to creativity (like imagination) and being detail-oriented is related to conscientiousness (like diligence.) Those two constructs are negatively correlated with each other so the opposite of what you're saying is actually true: if your experience with me is that I'm perceptive then you can predict in a vacuum (knowing nothing else about me) that I'm marginally more likely to overlook obvious things through carelessness.

Posting some bullshit with some convoluted plan attached to it is probably something I would do as scum, sure. In my defense I guess I'll point out that 231 isn't some random bullshit I spit out, there was some time and thought I completely wasted on it first, and I think that shows in that it would have been a fine post had I not completely excluded 43 existence.

I feel like I got really stumped in this game all of a sudden.

You ninja'd me, but that is really the reason I don't know what to think of you anymore. Like, I want to TR you, but for some reason I'm being paranoid you're lying there

Getting stumped indicates a lack of TMI so if you believe that I'm telling the truth about being stumped then that should not be something which is causing you paranoia. Normally someone would experience paranoia over being unsure whether or not I am actually stumped, for example.

[geraintm]

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

[biancospino]

Getting stumped indicates a lack of TMI so if you believe that I'm telling the truth about being stumped then that should not be something which is causing you paranoia. Normally someone would experience paranoia over being unsure whether or not I am actually stumped, for example.

Yes, but the thing is I don't 100% believe you.

And also yes, "perceptiveness" is apt, but eh, I can totally believe I don't know how people work.

[biancospino]

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

This (the Kow's quote) is someone one shan't say unless they don't really know normal guidelines. There is some merit I can see in feigning that thou

[Cephrir]

I believe Crescent should have voted me by now, the excessive analyzation and a delay to vote comes off as

Mafia

. Their posts tend to indicate that they know I'm not actually

Mafia

(as they are

Mafia

)

Something like this always pings me a bit. Because I know we're playing a game on "mafia" scum - and generally the opposing team to town is "mafia" but Mod never mentioned "mafia" in their opening posts. They referred to the opposing faction as "scum".

The first person to mention "mafia" this game? Well that was me, but in reference to the name of the game.

Others have also mentioned "mafia" in reference to the game.

Clone though, they have actually used the term "mafia" like there are mafia in the game. Likelihood of that being the case? I assume pretty good. But this is something that sticks out to me.

This is indeed not an appealing argument at all, however I think it migth have been in good faith, it's true scum are almost always called Mafia in Normals but also Kow may not entirely know the normal guidelines, as demonstrated here:

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

In fact, idk if a scum!Kow would even invent such a '''slip''' in the first place, I don't really think a scum would see that word and think it's pingy enough to fruitfully latch onto it.
UNVOTE:
@Kow, do you agree with Crescent reading of clone's opening? In all cases, if your take wrt. the slip is genuine, you should be eyeng Clone, which would tie to that.

Let's look for a sec at FK. He burrowed Kow in his towncore, and then quickly dropped them from it as soon as 43 was pointed out; now, this would be somewhat of a hat-trick for scum!FK in a world were Kow is town, as it would actually end up blurring Kow's cred further while not appearing to be shady. I trust FK to be good at noticing stuff, so I can see the fact he put forth a towncase that would stop working after noticing 43 to be a deliberate trap, especially since the "proactive" post from Kow was 45, near on the same page

Even if frogsterking is scum I would bet a large sum of money that he truly forgot about 43. Just don't think anyone makes that post knowing it's wrong ever

[Cephrir]

Hopefully I'll be able to catch-up tomorrow evening
VOTE: clone

This post is bad.

100% found scum

It shows 3 people on Clone but Clone having only two votes, but I believe it is correct otherwise.

Well would probably be worth a discussion if one of those three can't have their vote counted or something.

This is definitely the most forced day 1 post I have ever seen.
100% sure I have found a player who is trying you hard.

100%

Congrats on 100% finding two scum... So why is your vote on neither of them?

Combine this with letting Crescent's posts putting words in your mouth without comment... I'm in utter disbelief you don't have SOMETHING to say about that... And it's not adding up for me

VOTE: geraintm