Mini 2293: Death Note. Postgame!

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FIRST

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Thoughts on skills?
I don't see any kind of obvious partial skill claiming plans, I think any advantage to open claiming a skill is probably not worth reducing Kira NK info, but keen to discuss if anyone feels differently

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I'm on board with all of that!

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Lorne claiming Nothing. Let's think about this

There are 14 skills possible and 10 are in play. Kira/followers know what 4 skills are not in play

This has the possibility of being a fake skill claim

Just Kira who knows which skills aren't in play, right?

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Kira followers fake claiming is actually genius the more I think about it. The followers don't know each other and Kira doesn't know them, but they all know what skills aren't in play. Claiming a skill that isn't in play let's your two buddies know you're with them

Assuming I'm right about the rules, strong read from this that Black is not a follower

[Vanderscamp]

I thought you said 'why aren't we claiming skills.'

That's a terrible reason to vote someone

Claiming skills is bad. Unless there is a good reason to know that information.

Does scumBlack typically openly advocate pro-scum strategies?

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Yeah I'm brand new here so no one can read me

> . >

< . <

Have you played on other sites?

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I like gimli's thought process.

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I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

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Kira followers fake claiming is actually genius the more I think about it. The followers don't know each other and Kira doesn't know them, but they all know what skills aren't in play. Claiming a skill that isn't in play let's your two buddies know you're with them

Assuming I'm right about the rules, strong read from this that Black is not a follower

Yeah Watch is obviously town just for that post alone

Nah, I could see it as Kira who sees what skills aren't in play, assumes that the followers also got the same info, and is just trying to tell followers what to do to identify him.

Not a high likelihood world, and I didn't look at that post and think "this looks like Kira coaching," but I could see it being a thing.

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Lorne... when you wrote 28 did you know that only Kira can see what skills are in play and not the followers?

How do you know only Kira can see the skills in play?

VOTE: Kawaii

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more importantly than me being wrong about your behaviour in that game,

So you admit your reasoning was wrong, but you think that I was trying to buddy both of you. I was going to vote StD until he reminded me I did that in Haunted, you were there that game so you should know I tunneled him all day 1 when we were both town. As for you, I don't townread you, I was just seeing if you'd do the same thing you always do.

All pushes on me are towny

Mafia too hard

VOTE: kokichi

You did this when I voted you when we were both town, so I wanted to see if you had the same reaction. Not if I was automatically going to think you were town for it.

If you didn't think he was town, and you phrased it as ""unvote," you did the same thing as town, I wanted to see if you would do the same thing as you did when you were town and you did," why wouldn't you clarify that that's not a town read?
Because it obviously looks like a town read.

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Either way, i think Gimli is just hyper focused on me cause I had him completely fooled last game, or that could be just a facade. Not important right now.

VOTE: Azu

Why is it not important?

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Since we were both wrong, let's change the topic.

Let's all play a game. Which person do you think is most likely NOT to be Kira as of right now and why?

Gimli.

But I would vote Gimli over Black if that were somehow the decision because I think Black is about 0% to be a follower.

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I guess the not showing information changes things. But, I still feel like anyone that could potentially help Kira should be eliminated.

I think if someone becomes obviously not Kira, they become a pretty bad flip even if we think they're very evil.

But 5 days is a decently long time to kill Kira and if we miskill too many people we risk just being outnumbered, so I think we just try and kill the scummiest people who could reasonably be Kira, over people who are townier but have slightly higher Kira equity.

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I think I wanna watch death note again now

Same!

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starting to have doubts on kokichi

gimli, why malakittens?

Thoughts on kokichi?

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I am really sorry. I didn't want to make 30 questions quiz...............................

I prefer no reveal fwiw, no complaints from me

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I just want to add, regarding hunting followers/Kira:

If we suspect someone is a follower then we kill them. We don't keep them around to try to see if we can figure out who Kira is from them. Each follower can use Shinigami Eyes correct? That means scum can get two real names a night assuming the followers don't accidently target the same guy. The quicker we get rid of the followers then the less real names are revealed to scum.

What's cool about this game is that the followers can't tell each other or Kira what their eyes discovered overnight. They're gonna have to figure out a way to push that information in public without getting caught

Slightly suspicious of Gimli for even semi-suggesting we ignore followers

I agree with your point fwiw but do you really think Gimli is arguing this in bad faith?

I think Gimli is pretty clearly the most town person in the game atm

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I'll respond to your case on me in a couple hours, Black

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Ok...weird thoughts on Vander so far...a lot of these actions are NAI but they still pinged me

Do we like spoilers? Do we not like spoilers? Will people read this if I put it in tags or will people hate me for not tagging it and clogging up the page? I have Mafia anxiety

Spoiler: Vander giving me the creeps

Thoughts on skills?
I don't see any kind of obvious partial skill claiming plans, I think any advantage to open claiming a skill is probably not worth reducing Kira NK info, but keen to discuss if anyone feels differently

I thought even bringing up skill claiming was weird and it was framed like he definitely doesn't want to do it while also leaving the door open to discuss. Just felt off

I'm on board with all of that!

Vander agreeing with several things that Gimli proposed here. Not much extra input or anything

Just Kira who knows which skills aren't in play, right?

Could be informed but also could just be paying more attention to me which is entirely possible lol

Assuming I'm right about the rules, strong read from this that Black is not a follower

These types of reads are easy to make and I think followers/Kira benefit more from these definitive declarations more than taskforce. I still think it's NAI because Vander could post this as either alignment but I can't help that I felt weird about it

Does scumBlack typically openly advocate pro-scum strategies?

This just seems like Vander is trying to solve without really putting much thought into it. Posting this question and legit hoping to get an answer back seems like a reach

I like gimli's thought process.

More sheeping of Gimli with no elaboration on why he likes the thought process

I thought kokichi might have been scum for the vote on black for the call for skill claims, but his response to me asking about it felt null

Riding the fence on Kokichi. Keeping the door open

Nah, I could see it as Kira who sees what skills aren't in play, assumes that the followers also got the same info, and is just trying to tell followers what to do to identify him.

Not a high likelihood world, and I didn't look at that post and think "this looks like Kira coaching," but I could see it being a thing.

More on the fence stuff

Lorne... when you wrote 28 did you know that only Kira can see what skills are in play and not the followers?

How do you know only Kira can see the skills in play?

VOTE: Kawaii

Why does Kawaii get a vote for not reading the rules but not me, especially when you just said I could be Kira?

So yeah... a lot of this is just me getting a vibe that Vander is trying to seem like a proactive townie while really not contributing much of his own stuff. When he is providing he's arguing why people can go either alignment. The skills comment is probably the most scummy thing here along with the Kawaii vote

VOTE: Vanderscamp

Firstly, as a phone user, I like the spoilers because it prevents the page from getting too big.
I'll respond to your points without quoting them.


Skills discussion: Yeah, I think it's probably mostly bad to claim them and I do think it's bad, but if someone has good reasons for ways we might want to claim them I'm not so convinced it's always bad that it's a waste of time to talk about. I've been thinking more about this and I think if you're under threat of death it probably can't be that bad to claim, if you can explain why discussing this kind of strategy is actively bad then I agree it's scummy to talk about, but I don't think it is.

Me agreeing with Gimli: I didn't have anything to add, I had the same thoughts.

Me knowing the rules: I read through the rules pretty thoroughly about a day before I got my role.

Me saying Black is not a follower: obviously it's not that easy to make since I was the first one who said it!
I see where you're coming from in that it probably helps Kira, but killing Kira today isn't the only thing that matters and I feel pretty strongly that we shouldn't kill Black today from him saying that.
I also don't think it's NAI because I think I'd be more likely to keep that kind of read to myself as evil.


Asking about scumBlack's meta: this question was really about Kokichi because I thought their vote on Black for that post was pretty weak.
If Kokichi had played with Black before and Black doesn't just essentially openly wolf when it comes to advocating strategies (which is pretty uncommon) I would have just voted Kokichi for it. Fwiw I thought it was very likely I would be following up that question with a vote, but the fact that Kokichi has never played with Black before does make it possible that Kokichi really does think Black is the type of player to openly wolf like that.

More sheeping of Gimli: I thought it was more in depth reasoning than scum usually provides. I'll make it easier for you for these types of posts, though, me giving reads without reasoning attached is not scum indicative.

Kokichi fence riding: see two paragraphs above. I didn't think me giving this logic would be super useful since Kokichi didn't seem town from it, just not scummy as I was expecting.

On the fence about Black being Kira: I'm not sitting on the fence about it, I'm actively disagreeing with Gimli's read.


Voting kawaii: I'm not voting kawaii for not knowing rules, I'm voting kawaii because that post read as very awkward.



I don't think your case on me is scummy fwiw, I can see you believing this.
But I am trying to be proactive, and I feel pretty decently about my reads so far at this stage of the game. I don't agree that I'm not giving much original content, i think basically the only stuff I've said that that applies to is me saying that I agree with Gimli.

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I would be down to kill anyone who talks about mechanics too much

Nah

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There's important thing i cut out of rules and just noticed.

All dead players flip without revealing any information. I am returning this back in "Setup" section.

here, lorne. enchant just decided to make things worse for us.

Then why are we even playing?

I agree it was a pretty big omission and makes scumhunting less rewarding.

I'm pretty sure this was in the setup page?

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Malakittens wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023 18:28

ngl

i usually just glide over setup-talk/setup-spec only because its not a strong suit of mine. i try to stay out of it at all costs.

I believe it's just better to stay quiet of all costs bc we dont want scum getting any more information.


This one kinda hates this stance, trying to just coast by silent and passing it off as "it's preventing scum from getting info!" gives me very bad vibes. Progressing my RV on Mala to a genuine vote.

10/10 would ask u to try again.

I am the type of player who hates people that openly rolefish or even talk about setups that could give others information. Granted with no flips it does make the game a bit harder for either alignment, but to openly discuss what skills etc someone could have just helps scum imo.

so i rather go scumhunt rather than deal with pages and pages of setup spec

so feel free to vote me i don't really care nor am i scared because you won't gather enough votes to lim me b/c its an empty case

so wake me up when setup spec ends

Leaning town on this response

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unless we wanna go full claiming abilities and do something else to break night actions.

You would be ok with this?

If a setup can be broken I want to break it, although I don't think it's likely this is one of those setups.

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I think Gimli is pretty clearly the most town person in the game atm

Am I missing something?

My read comes from willingness to solve plus giving what seem to be genuine thought processes.

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I'll be honest that my WIM is a bit lower now + I'm absolutely terrible at scumreading people without any flips so I don't bother trying

What's WIM?

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I would be down to kill anyone who talks about mechanics too much

Nah

Thanks for your input

I agree with your statement, but my bar for too much is probably different.

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This one normally wouldn't be super opposed to killing someone scummy right here and now, but due to the nature of the game it believes that maximizing our time to discuss is vital. Anyone pushing to get Kokichi (or anyone, for that matter) to hammer any time short of like, deadline day, is going to be on my radar.

I don't think we should be snap hammering anyone on any of the days, but I'm generally not a fan of waiting until deadline just for the sake of waiting. Like if we stall with the votes and the person we think we're probably going to daykill at deadline responds really well to the votes at the final moment, it's pretty hard to find a good candidate last minute.

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We are on evens, I'm partial to a day 1 no lim here tbh.

If there were no methods of no kills or extra kills I'd be okay with this, but it's possible we daykill every day and our numbers naturally turn odd anyway.
Additionally we're on a 5 day timer so it's somewhat possible we don't even make it to a final three before losing if Kira decides to aggressively No kill to widen the pool.

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The problem is scum that isn't kira is always going to claim detective and our best option for counterplay is going to be limming them anyway, but that means we are risking losing the actual detective.

If detective is forced to claim, our best option for counterplay is asking them to condemn someone and we see if that person instantly dies, and then we get perfect info on whether to kill them.

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Lorne... when you wrote 28 did you know that only Kira can see what skills are in play and not the followers?

How do you know only Kira can see the skills in play?

Kawaii, can you explain what the point of this question was?

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I respect that people are pushing a top poster, it's not very common

It's mostly Gimli scared of me fooling him again. HPE I'm a bit suspect on. It seems like HPE initially wanted to seem HPE were null on me, and then slowly try to make it into a scumread but failed. But I could be a bit bias on that read since it's on myself, so I would need someone else to look on that. Azu hasn't really outed a reason but it looks bad. StD quick hammered obvious town last time I was in game with them, so I have no faith in their ability to scumread even if they are town this game. Out of all those I am suspect of HPE's line of questioning since their bases was on gimli and me's interaction and when I proved that wrong, they kinda brushed it to the side and tried to make it based on me voting Azu and tried to paint it as me pushing them for a bad reason when I didn't even give a reason. What do you think of the votes on me?

I forgot Kawaii was voting me when I made that post. But I think Kawaii is town for reasons.

Can you talk about these reasons?

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Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

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UNVOTE: wanna think about it some more

if koki is scum, that's exactly the type of manipulation tactics I expect him to use and make people feel insecure and lots of other bad things. he has no reason to bring up past games w/ you just to complain about your reads in that game.

he is also doing that w/ me, saying I'm only scumreading him because I'm scared of being fooled. it's simply undermining our leans with things that are not this game. in this game, kokichi is scummy, and doing these things fits with his scum range. I expect town koki to try and talk on the level of where the conversations are instead of doing this.

it's not because of the trash he's spewing it's actually more about your comment about everyone scumreading him. Does kira/follower come in and specifically antagonize people with garbage? is it just kokichi being weird? am i overthinking this?

I do think the way kokichi is playing is probably less likely to come from Kira from the complete disregard of not making waves.

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Kitten's posting has been mid, but I liked the reaction to this post. Seems like something I would say, so maybe that's why I like it.

Malakittens wrote: ↑03 Mar 2023 18:28

ngl

i usually just glide over setup-talk/setup-spec only because its not a strong suit of mine. i try to stay out of it at all costs.

I believe it's just better to stay quiet of all costs bc we dont want scum getting any more information.


This one kinda hates this stance, trying to just coast by silent and passing it off as "it's preventing scum from getting info!" gives me very bad vibes. Progressing my RV on Mala to a genuine vote.

10/10 would ask u to try again.

I am the type of player who hates people that openly rolefish or even talk about setups that could give others information. Granted with no flips it does make the game a bit harder for either alignment, but to openly discuss what skills etc someone could have just helps scum imo.

so i rather go scumhunt rather than deal with pages and pages of setup spec

so feel free to vote me i don't really care nor am i scared because you won't gather enough votes to lim me b/c its an empty case

so wake me up when setup spec ends

But I agree, setup spec has ended. What are your thoughts?

I liked this post too.

[Vanderscamp]

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary. Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point. Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them. Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

I am voting them.

I also don't understand this defence, this feels very follower to Kawaii Kira esque.
I don't agree that Kawaii is a total gamble either, I think scummy low posting slots are not pure rand to be town/scum.

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If Kawaii was Kira, I would not want to be a follower right now

I would be stunned if Kawaii was Kira.

Why?

If Kawaii were Kira I would expect followers to post pretty much exactly the kind of thing that HPE just did, so I don't understand you giving this read right after that happened.

[Vanderscamp]

Do we really think kawaii is Kira because they said they would act a certain way as Kira and then acted that way? That just doesn't seem like something scum would do. To assume Kawaii is Kira we have to assume they would just out themselves D1 for no reason

Also Kokichi brought up a Gimli meta analysis that everyone just overlooked. Gimli is definitely acting more confident in his reads this game and it's not just exclusive to the Kokichi read. All of his reads have felt definitive. Just feels weird

I'm not voting Kawaii because I'm sheeping their own read on themselves, I'm voting Kawaii because the content they have posted has felt awkward and I don't like how little they've engaged with anyone.

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I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

Wait what??? Did you just say the Detective should out themselves and use their dayvig to kill kawaii?

By daykill I mean lunch, which I believe is not a word that people are happy being used anymore.

[Vanderscamp]

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary.

Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point.

Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them.

Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

Besides the bold part. What is this even saying? Seems like you're talking just to talk. The first post that's not about me is like you're trying to sound like you're saying something without saying anything.

I'll retract my scum read on your Kawaii defence then if you hadn't seen this post.

[Vanderscamp]

elimination is the best term to use

Will use that in the future, thanks, the site I mostly play on doesn't tend to have too many daykill abilities so there's not too much confusion.

[Vanderscamp]

Kawaii, thoughts the people scumreading you?

[Vanderscamp]

Do we really think kawaii is Kira because they said they would act a certain way as Kira and then acted that way? That just doesn't seem like something scum would do. To assume Kawaii is Kira we have to assume they would just out themselves D1 for no reason

Also Kokichi brought up a Gimli meta analysis that everyone just overlooked. Gimli is definitely acting more confident in his reads this game and it's not just exclusive to the Kokichi read. All of his reads have felt definitive. Just feels weird

I'm not voting Kawaii because I'm sheeping their own read on themselves, I'm voting Kawaii because the content they have posted has felt awkward and I don't like how little they've engaged with anyone.

That's a completely valid reason to be voting me, I failed to engage with anyone up into this point
With the last question you asked, I wanted to know how Black knew the Kira skill mechanic
As to why I'm disengaged with this game, this is intentional, I want people to think I'm Kira to see how Kira/followers react to me, though I was tempted to ask why Black is 0% follower with Gimli being 100% town, I held back to attempt this gambit

It's possible followers exist in Kokichi/HPE, though I'm not finding saying I should not be eliminated to be sufficient evidence, it doesn't make total sense to defend me as followers if their genuine belief is I am town

I'm not sure I buy you intentionally trying to look like Kira.

[Vanderscamp]

I started getting heat by black after I was set with the kawaii flip and whatnot.

That's incorrect. I was already suspicious of you in 165 and 204

I also think it's funny that koki is saying people are sheeping me when everyone that's scumreading kawaii is doing so independently, clearly. it's just a blatantly scum play so far and defending it from the angle of 'gimli is sus' doesn't feel right.

Vander has been sheeping you all game and the vote on kawaii is no different. I don't think kawaii is acting scummy. They weren't posting in the newbie game you linked while they were lurking here so to me that suggests they were busy this weekend. The rest of the points against kawaii are weak imo

I'm not sheeping Gimli, I just have agreed with basically everything he's said which is why I'm townreading him.
I'm also pretty sure I voted Kawaii before anyone was scumreading them.

[Vanderscamp]

I started getting heat by black after I was set with the kawaii flip and whatnot.

That's incorrect. I was already suspicious of you in 165 and 204

I also think it's funny that koki is saying people are sheeping me when everyone that's scumreading kawaii is doing so independently, clearly. it's just a blatantly scum play so far and defending it from the angle of 'gimli is sus' doesn't feel right.

Vander has been sheeping you all game and the vote on kawaii is no different. I don't think kawaii is acting scummy. They weren't posting in the newbie game you linked while they were lurking here so to me that suggests they were busy this weekend. The rest of the points against kawaii are weak imo

Also, if you don't think Kawaii is acting scummy, what do you think of them saying they're intentionally trying to look like Kira?

[Vanderscamp]

if i'm detective or assistant then I still want props from getting the rest of it right:

1. Detective - mala
2. Assistant - STD
3. Taskforce Member - vander
4. Taskforce Member - meg
5. Taskforce Member - gimli
6. Taskforce Member - lorne
7. Taskforce Member - HPE
8. Kira Follower - black
9. Kira Follower - kokichi
10. Kira - kawaii

I strongly believe black is not a follower, I think the initial post about not understanding what followers know was genuine.

[Vanderscamp]

I was one of your strongest TRs. Wild how me saying I don't think kawaii is Kira can completely flip that. Your tunnel is really long with no end in sight

I agree with this btw, Gimli flipping on you for you defending Kawaii is the only thing I really haven't liked from him this game, it feels like a really level 1 read.
I don't care about the detective speculation post.

[Vanderscamp]

You think Kira and followers would feel this bold to be the only people on a Gimli wagon? Also it won't stop when you flip Kawaii because we won't know what his alignment is. Once you flip him you will gun for me and Kokichi next. Your tunnel will last until the end of the game and by that point you will have mislimmed enough to win

Why are you convinced Kawaii isn't Kira?
Like Gimli can be wrong about you with Kawaii being Kira and the game ending.

[Vanderscamp]

Kira will play like a normal person, just hang the followers, read their ISO and hang Kira later, it's not that complicated

I want to hang Kira day 5 so we get maximum playing time

Wanting to hunt followers and keep Kira around is weird

These posts are fine imo

[Vanderscamp]

Counterpoint: Lorne is town

Source: Trust me

Honestly I think this kind of reasoning is much more towny than people trying to come up with some bullshit and put some mafia terms in it lol

I agree haha

[Vanderscamp]

I think we should just stay the course on Kawaii, I ultimately just don't really believe that trying to act scummy was a play.
If it were a play I would have expected some kind of deeper analysis of what reactions Kawaii got from it, but that didn't happen.

[Vanderscamp]

Is it weird that I disagree with all of Vander's takes but I think he's town just cause of the way he's going about them.

I am town so that half is a good read!

[Vanderscamp]

The game will not end if Kawaii is elim'd, I'm pretty sure.

Why?

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I'm leaning towards "the game won't end when Kawaii flips", but I'll vote them anyway

I think there's a pretty decent chance the game doesn't end, Kawaii could still easily be a follower.
Based on the resistance to flipping Kawaii I think that's less likely, but still possible.
But I'm more confident on Kawaii being scum than being specifically Kira.

[Vanderscamp]

The game will not end if Kawaii is elim'd, I'm pretty sure.

Why?

Because I think he's town

Can you explain why?

[Vanderscamp]

Okay it's independent of me. Then okay. And I don't think we're going to vote out Kawaii today anyway, so no point.

I'm actually just going to look through iso's and stop trying to defend myself cause my back and forth with you is distracting me too much.

I am extremely down to daykill Kawaii.

I don't like the fact that Kawaii has never responded to me calling out that post I thought was scummy, or asked me about my vote.

At this point a daykill on Kawaii doesn't feel necessary. Sinking into background is feeling more and more like a scum thing to this one but even if we condemn them in a day or two it honestly doesn't think it would be worth it especially for the detective reveal. And then there's the aspect of when you wait multiple days, the gamestate and what we know and who's scummiest will change. Condemn now = Total gamble, condemn later = We don't even know if we'd want to at that point. Thus if you want Kawaii dead NOW, vote them. Though again this one prefers dragging the game days out for max discussion and analysis.

I am voting them.

I also don't understand this defence, this feels very follower to Kawaii Kira esque.

Why does this feel very follower to me = Kira esque?

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

[Vanderscamp]

I almost liked those posts though for real

so let's consider when kawaii isn't kira. then hpe/koki/black would probably be townies because who wouldn't take the easy d1 here as kira/follower, right?

we're pointing at STD/lorne/malakittens? if that's the case

I'm keeping vander as a townie in any configuration

Not necessarily, they could either be looking for cred for defending someone who isn't Kira, or a scum who thinks (probably correctly imo) that Kawaii is a follower.

[Vanderscamp]

i don't think that's a good poe, i'm not kira and i don't think it's mala or lorne tbh

i think that post by kawaii just now is potentially trying to buddy it doesn't actually say much of anything new

VOTE: kawaiikame

Can you talk about why you don't think it's Mala or lorne?

[Vanderscamp]

I'm keeping vander as a townie in any configuration

If Vander feels hard townie it's pretty likely Vander is Kira

Lol

[Vanderscamp]

Gimli left his tunnel and is solving the game. Personally I love to see it

I'm still in my tunnel

I don't think the recent Kawaii posts were town, I think it's overcompensating for earlier scumminess.

[Vanderscamp]

you do have a good point. i just think the way she's handled herself has been town. she could be bad, i'd probably need more info to change my mind though

What specifically about the way she's handled herself?
Because you said she might be low hanging fruit, but why couldn't she just be accurate scummy fruit?

I liked your thoughts on black being Kira, although I don't particularly agree with them, but I still don't get the Mala read.

[Vanderscamp]

You've kind of answered that, I don't really agree that those posts are town.

[Vanderscamp]

Because I don't think HPE's post makes any sense at all, you could basically sub in any name for yours and the post would be exactly the same. The only place HPE talks about you specifically is mentioning that you have been scummy.

There was

no

defense of Kawaii. The post was only about the misunderstanding of what daykill meant, as this one thought you were referring to the detective's Condemn ability, not just voting someone off to eliminate them. The argument was vote don't condemn, because again, it misunderstood. Will you stop continuing the misunderstanding yourself now, please?

Oh, sorry.

Yeah that makes more sense now.

[Vanderscamp]

you do have a good point. i just think the way she's handled herself has been town. she could be bad, i'd probably need more info to change my mind though

What specifically about the way she's handled herself?
Because you said she might be low hanging fruit, but why couldn't she just be accurate scummy fruit?

I liked your thoughts on black being Kira, although I don't particularly agree with them, but I still don't get the Mala read.

i've been scum against town mala in the past and have pushed her for what i feel are similar reasons that people are pushing her for.

Sure, but why couldn't she be scum in this spot?
Is her play as scum vastly different?

[Vanderscamp]

Since we were both wrong, let's change the topic.

Let's all play a game. Which person do you think is most likely NOT to be Kira as of right now and why?

Gimli.

But I would vote Gimli over Black if that were somehow the decision because I think Black is about 0% to be a follower.

Vander can you elaborate why Gimli was your least likely to be Kira? What was it about Gimli's play before this post that made you think no way it's him?

I don't think "no way it's him," but I think his engagement level and explanations of his thought process made him the most likely town by a pretty large margin.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't think "no way it's him," but I think his engagement level and explanations of his thought process made him the most likely town by a pretty large margin.

Does this mean you expect Kira to engage less? His thought processes all seem pretty easy to fake as scum imo so I'm not sure what made him town to you in that regard

My read is that his thoughts sounded real, I don't think they were super easy to fake because they weren't obvious.

[Vanderscamp]

Kawaii: not quoting your giant post but my biggest point on Black is that I feel like the follower info dumbtell at the start of the game was extremely likely genuine.

[Vanderscamp]

you do have a good point. i just think the way she's handled herself has been town. she could be bad, i'd probably need more info to change my mind though

What specifically about the way she's handled herself?
Because you said she might be low hanging fruit, but why couldn't she just be accurate scummy fruit?

I liked your thoughts on black being Kira, although I don't particularly agree with them, but I still don't get the Mala read.

i've been scum against town mala in the past and have pushed her for what i feel are similar reasons that people are pushing her for.

Sure, but why couldn't she be scum in this spot?
Is her play as scum vastly different?

She could be scum, yes. I'm not sure, I just think town for now and want more data

Can you substantiate the "thinking town" part?
Because I'm still not getting why you think that.

[Vanderscamp]

Here’s the thing that’s bothering me re: gimli
If he *thinks* I’m decetive than he shouldn’t be voting me.

Yeah I'm fine limming this

[Vanderscamp]

Here’s the thing that’s bothering me re: gimli
If he *thinks* I’m decetive than he shouldn’t be voting me.

That's an incredible point

No it's not.

[Vanderscamp]

What is the case on gimli

He's pushing people for being lurky/unproductive while acknowledging that the Detective would probably play this way. It would be one thing if these pushes had other reasons like, ya know, they're acting scummy? But the push on kawaii and now Mala is all based on a playstyle that could fit the most important town role in the game. He mentioned associatives but then admitted Assistant/Detective could have these associatives too

If Gimli thinks Detective/Kira will have similar playstyles and associatives like he says...why does it make sense for town!Gimli to push these players on playstyle/associatives alone?

There's more, like the meta case earlier, and a few other things but this is the jist of it for me

I want to know Gimli's defense to this, I'm having a hard time believing Gimli is Kira/follower but you have good points giving me 2nd thoughts...

I don't like that this post is swaying you, I don't believe this post would give you second thoughts about all of your logic about Gimli.

Do you think Gimli is pushing people purely based on playstyle/associatives?
Because if you do, that's fine, but I don't think you do.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that if you think Kira and the detective are going to play similarly, it follows that you should just start not hunting Kira for how you think Kira is going to play.

[Vanderscamp]

Starting to think gimlis 180 on kawaii could signify he's a follower to kawaii!kira but that seems rather risky

Gimli could be a Meg!kira follower too with his defense of Meg

I don't think Gimli being a follower to Kawaii is ever a thing.
Gimli doesn't know that Kawaii isn't going to just crumble under the pressure.
I think Kawaii gave a pretty good defence, but one I don't really think is AI, I think it's indicative of Kawaii realizing what a bad spot they're in and trying harder. But if Kawaii gives basically anything less than a strong defence, they're dying, in a large part due to Gimli.

[Vanderscamp]

I would like some thoughts from players not named Gimli. Do we think this post could come from Kira or nah?

Spoiler: For kira's eyes only

You should definitely swap with me so I can kill people with the death note tonight.
I known it seems silly but consider the following pros and cons.

Pros

- If I am VT, it frames me and you appear innocent.
If I am a Kira follower, I would kill a townie and you would be fine.
If I am a power role, I'm likely killing a townie instead of whatever I'm supposed to be doing.
The frame is permanent.
It would be funny.
Literally noone would believe you actually did this and I would likely be limmed tomorrow for claiming it happened, assuming I am town.

Cons

There is an incredibly low chance you die to your own Death Note, although this would be a funny outcome.
You don't choose who dies n1.


Pros seem to be outweighing the cons here.
And I got my fanciest pen <3

Yes, I think it's the kind of thing Meg could have thought of before seeing their role.

[Vanderscamp]

I see you're keeping up with voting everyone to make yourself seem not sure again.

This reads as fake

[Vanderscamp]

the followers know who kira is

thats why i thought kokichi and black were your followers

i wouldn't attack you if im a follower of someone else's kira

like this is page 41 you still don't know this

game got too exasperating now...

Can you talk about why you wouldn't attack them if you were a follower of someone else's Kira?
I don't understand that.

[Vanderscamp]

Hmm. Do you think this is a way for follower Gimli to get us to second guess our Kira Meg talk right now?

Potentially yes, Black thinks the same
I'm not down to eliminate Gimli this day phase, it seems too convenient, like think logically, why pursue me being Kira so much if he believes I am Kira as a follower? That feels ultimately town to me

Wait I just realized what you said here

Is this legit a slip?

[Vanderscamp]

Followers know who Kira is though, no?

I don't...know? Is it Kira who doesn't know who Kira is?
Wait no, is it Kira who doesn't know the followers?
*Is it the followers who doesn't know who Kira is?

Is this a joke or a serious post?

[Vanderscamp]

I'm not down to eliminate Gimli this day phase, it seems too convenient, like think logically, why pursue me being Kira so much if he believes I am Kira as a follower? That feels ultimately town to me

What do you mean here? I thought he was pursuing you because he thought you were Kira?

Precisely, why would a follower of Kira pursue to eliminate me if he believed I am Kira?

Maybe I'm just dumb but I'm not following. If Gimli is a follower and you are town, why would he not push you if you're acting like Kira?

That's the thing, I don't believe Gimli was as a follower would push me if he thought I was Kira, how would he know I'm not Kira, do the followers know who Kira is? Maybe I'm the stupid one lmfao, I'm not following the mechanics of the game
Pedit: Yeah I failed to read the opening post, this changes things, Gimli as town would be motivated to pursue me if the belief in me being Kira is genuine, Gimli as follower would be motivated to pursue me to kill the false Kira and be seen as town
I feel Gimli's pursuit of me is genuine, this is why I feel Gimli is town

Nah, there is NO WAY this is genuine.

There's no chance that after 40 pages of us talking about this, you wouldn't understand that followers don't know who Kira is.

I am CERTAIN this is not genuine and this slot is scum.

[Vanderscamp]

I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post, there's just no way

[Vanderscamp]

When I was getting voted early game, there was no one defending me, I had to do so myself. Everyone was willing to vote me or did vote me. I think except Mala but they were barely around, and Black. So in that case, it would lead to believe that Black and Mala were most likely followers for me if I am Kira. Who would you say would be followers if I were Kira?

No one defending you when you being voted is the best defense you have of not being Kira... I need to go back and see if anyone did defend you

It's pretty true, but it also came at a point very early in the day where I don't think followers are going to be coming out of the woodwork to hard defend their Kira, so I'm mostly ignoring it.

[Vanderscamp]

Vander, for some reason you feel on the outside of the game looking in. Maybe it's cause I'm usually not around when you're posting. Can you give like a list of people you'd be wiling to vote today?

Yeah, I'm in Australia so my time zones usually don't line up that well.

I really just want to kill Kawaii exclusively today, at the time you asked me this my list would have been something like Kawaii > Mala > std > you

[Vanderscamp]

It's a tone thing it has to do with her zzzzzz and ..... posts coming from liberated town free to do what they want rather than scum that have to care about what they say

Actually I do think I remember you saying this before, my bad

[Vanderscamp]

Here’s the thing that’s bothering me re: gimli
If he *thinks* I’m decetive than he shouldn’t be voting me.

Yeah I'm fine limming this

Limming mala/Gimli?

Mala specifically for this comment.

[Vanderscamp]

I mean if you are are follower you would want to defend gimli, and he would have no way to know it is you?
Are you not defending gimli's case on you?

It's plausible imo, I don't really think it's reality.

I am defending since I feel it's genuinely town, I want to eliminate who I see as town so I can find Kira, I don't see Gimli as Kira, I was down to eliminate Gimli at one point when he was pursuing me but my mind changed as his mind changed on me...
I see why you see why you think I might be Gimli's follower, yeah,
What do you really think is reality? I want to eliminate Kira

To be honest, I'm not sure
It's a tough game
Gut says it's a slot not getting high attention (Std/Mala/Vander/HPE) But I townread most of that list to some degree

Wow, you townread that list?
Because I don't think that's a very towny list of players at all and I'm in it.

So your scum is in Gimli/Kawaii/kokichi/black?

[Vanderscamp]

But if Kawaii gives basically anything less than a strong defence, they're dying, in a large part due to Gimli.

It was due or die, so I did, I needed to defend like that to survive as anyone, Idk if anyone else is seeing that

Yeah, I understand!

I didn't think your defence was scummy in any way, but I also didn't read anything you said and thought that it obviously came from a town perspective.

[Vanderscamp]

I see you're keeping up with voting everyone to make yourself seem not sure again.

This reads as fake

Then why didn't you say the first time I posted it was fake

When I quoted that post was the first time I'd seen it.

[Vanderscamp]

Eh maybe

I'm too tired to argue guys

Is this what you want to flip today, Vander?

Yes

I just can't see Kawaii not knowing that followers know who Kira is on page 40.

[Vanderscamp]

Hmm. Do you think this is a way for follower Gimli to get us to second guess our Kira Meg talk right now?

Potentially yes, Black thinks the same
I'm not down to eliminate Gimli this day phase, it seems too convenient, like think logically, why pursue me being Kira so much if he believes I am Kira as a follower? That feels ultimately town to me

Wait I just realized what you said here

Is this legit a slip?

What was the slip

If Gimli were a follower and thought Kawaii was Kira, it would only be because Kawaii was Kira.
Kawaii kind of explained how this isn't a slip but I don't buy the explanation.

[Vanderscamp]

I was potentially moving to Mala/kokichi/std today until that post, there's just no way

You townread Gimli? Even after the meta post I showed?

I thought the meta case was believable that you believed it but it didn't sway me.
I also don't agree with the characterisation of Gimli being certain with his reads, I think he's been extremely uncertain throughout the day.

[Vanderscamp]

Here’s the thing that’s bothering me re: gimli
If he *thinks* I’m decetive than he shouldn’t be voting me.

Yeah I'm fine limming this

Limming mala/Gimli?

Mala specifically for this comment.

Why mala specifically in this comment?

Because if Gimli is town he's not going to be honest about his detective read 100% of the time in that spot.
Like, unless Mala is a good PR and knows otherwise, Gimli could easily be the detective and lying about the detective read, so it's just a really weird thing to say is bothering you.

[Vanderscamp]

But if Kawaii gives basically anything less than a strong defence, they're dying, in a large part due to Gimli.

It was due or die, so I did, I needed to defend like that to survive as anyone, Idk if anyone else is seeing that

Yeah, I understand!

I didn't think your defence was scummy in any way, but I also didn't read anything you said and thought that it obviously came from a town perspective.

You feel my defense is a town perspective without reading what I said? I feel the emotion must've came out at you visually, if you feel it came from a town perspective why do you feel I'm definite scum now? Can scum have a town perspective?

I maybe phrased that badly: I think your defence was good but not clearly towny. I didn't get an obvious coming from town perspective from it.

[Vanderscamp]

Ok, I'm going to take a step back.

Kawaii, I'll try looking at the game from the pov of you not knowing that followers know Kira.

You said you thought this was probably the case, which is obviously reasonable.

I feel like in the thread we've talked a lot about followers knowing who Kira is and defending them, what did you think the scenario was where followers didn't know who Kira is?

[Vanderscamp]

Also, are you really a new player?

Because if you are then you would become a lot more towny to me.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that if you think Kira and the detective are going to play similarly, it follows that you should just start not hunting Kira for how you think Kira is going to play.

That's not what I said. I don't think anyone should stop hunting for Kira based on playstyle. In this setup, I don't think playstyle should be used as the sole reason to vote someone and adamantly rally others to follow through with the elimination because that playstyle could apply to the Detective and Kira. There should be more to it don't you agree? It's Gimli's definitive confidence in pushes that are just as likely to flip town's losing role as town's winning one that is making me think he's not playing from a town perspective

Let's assume for a second that Gimli is scum. Think of the wolf motive behind pushes like these, using the reasoning Gimli has used for them. Then think about his Kira pool of {Std, mala, Lorne} and formerly kawaii. He's running up players that follow his own definition of how a Detective would play in order to get a Detective claim. He'll hop from kawaii to mala, to StD, then maybe Lorne until one sticks

I do agree, but I don't agree that Gimli is voting people purely because of playstyle.

[Vanderscamp]

Eh maybe

I'm too tired to argue guys

Is this what you want to flip today, Vander?

Yes

I just can't see Kawaii not knowing that followers know who Kira is on page 40.

I knew of followers knowing who Kira is as a

possibility

, not

definitely

If I'm a follower this means me not reading my own role pm...
If I'm Kira this means me not knowing/reading my own followers game mechanics
0nly way this makes sense is if I'm town who failed to read the in game set up mechanics,
I am town who failed to read the in game set up mechanics...

I'm not interested in these wifom arguments, because it also doesn't make sense as town for you to see us talking about followers being aware of Kira (and without looking it up I'm pretty certain you've also talked about this) for 40 pages and not know that followers know who Kira is.
The main thing that makes sense to me is that you're evil and pretending that you don't know.

[Vanderscamp]

Also, are you really a new player?

Because if you are then you would become a lot more towny to me.

I am new to mafiascum

What about mafia in general?

[Vanderscamp]

okay I'm gonna case STD, this will actually be mostly me trying to convince myself his posts are actually scummy as opposed to std just being std, the unreadable fox I keep playing with

in a bit

yeah IDK I like his ISO tbh

Kokichi, does this kind of stuff from Gimli change your meta read?

[Vanderscamp]

Voting me is the wrong play and will not end the game for town. It will just screw us more so let’s not and say we did

This phrasing is pretty weird, "screw us more" implies we're already screwed in some way which I don't think is true.

[Vanderscamp]

The more I think about it the less likely I’m think kawaii is scum so that’s one slot I won’t be voting

Also I vaguely remember someone mixing up eliminate and day vig I think that slot is prob town as well

That was me, ez town cred

[Vanderscamp]

I can get back on the Gimli wagon. Something is up with kawaii but I can't figure it out

VOTE: Gimli

I struggle to find it more likely that it's an intentional false dumbtell over actually just missing some of the setup information.

Yeah that's kinda where I'm leaning after reading over a bit this morning. Still want to keep the possibility of him being Kira in my head though

I still hard disagree with this, I would have probably thought the same if there wasn't a ton of conversation around it already.

[Vanderscamp]

I kind of just want the day to end at this point, I feel like I'm just tunneling my reads harder and harder.

I still think Gimli is a pretty terrible lim, I think the way he's played is the kind of inconsistency that comes more often from passionate town than scum with an agenda.

I still don't think Kawaii is town, but I think other people sound scummy and I'm happy to entertain the possibility that I'm just really tunneled.


I didn't like Mala's reaction to Gimli at all, I feel like when someone calls you out as a TPR people react in several different ways. I think the towny way to react, regardless of whether you'reTPR or not, is to kind of play into it, like giving a wink emoji or joking about your vig target or something.
I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

I thought STD's reaction to Gimli a few pages ago was pretty good, I got the vibe from it that they actually believed what they were saying and weren't defending themselves just for the sake of defending themselves.

I really, really, really don't like kokichi's continual defence of "I literally can't be Kira" because it relies on the premise that followers would have just hard defended them facing an early D1, and the fact that no one did is clearing.
I don't really think this is something kokichi actually believes so it just reads as false.

Other than that, my non updated reads are that I think black and lorne are town and everyone else is null.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: malakittens

I'm gonna just park here I think

lorne/std non entities as of late

pedit: why is mala town by default?

I am insanely bored by this game. Feels like everyone is just going in circles

I'm not bored but definitely agree with the circles.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Malakittens

E-2 I think?

[Vanderscamp]

I think Mala's reaction was pretty scummy, like Mala seemed really annoyed in a really obviously "I'm a TPR" type way. I get that this may seem unhelpful to talk about, but it was imo so blatant that there's no chance anyone missed it, so I'm just going to talk about it. I basically feel like if you are what you're softing it doesn't make sense because you would not want to actually react in that way, and it didn't feel at all like a VT trying to take a bullet, so I think it was just scummy.

This feels like a stylistic thing, like mala can be genuinely pissed at being outed thinking Gimli is game throwing, I don't know how mala plays, feels like an upset town/caught scum in reaction, like yeah the game gets heated and mala may have been at her breaking point, if you feel mala's reaction is sai that's valid, what else do we have on mala that's sai?

I thought her earlier response to Gimli was also quite bad, the "if he thinks I'm detective he shouldn't be voting me," I talked a bit about why earlier.

[Vanderscamp]

And the fact that this is her response now makes me like that post even less in hindsight.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Malakittens

E-2 I think?

Who is defending Mala?
No one?

What are you talking about?

STD has been hard defending Mala for basically the entire game.

[Vanderscamp]

"I literally can't be Kira"

Kokichi literally can be Kira

I agree.

[Vanderscamp]

STD has been hard defending Mala for basically the entire game.

Don't you have a tr on StD?

Yeah, but what you're saying isn't true.
Also, I could be wrong on STD, and there are other people who could be followers to Mala.

[Vanderscamp]

I thought I was responding to Kawaii there

[Vanderscamp]

Yeah, but what you're saying isn't true.
Also, I could be wrong on STD, and there are other people who could be followers to Mala.

I'm saying it's odd for you to put even more pressure on mala when you tr someone that has been defending her all game. I wonder what other role combination that could apply to?

I understand what you're saying, but if that's the combination then I think the game is already over.
I think there's some real chance Mala is Detective, not as likely as her being scum, but the way she's reacted to Gimli calling her detective is just so over the top obviously signalling "I'm the detective" that I don't think there's any point not addressing it, and I want to live in the worlds where we have a decent chance of winning. If I thought I was somehow the only person thinking this then I probably wouldn't push her despite thinking it's more likely scummy, but this clearly isn't the case.

[Vanderscamp]

Yes

[Vanderscamp]

Yes

Do you feel it's worth the risk of getting a potential Mala Kira even if she may be the Detective?
Idk how much hope we will have of killing Kira within the day if Mala is the 2nd option

I think Mala is sufficiently scummy and her detective softing is so blatant that at this point if she doesn't vig someone I would just lim her.

[Vanderscamp]

"I literally can't be Kira"

Kokichi literally can be Kira

I agree.

Okay I can be Kira then

I knew it

[Vanderscamp]

Yes I’m one of the prs.

Now let’s kill gimli for blood.

He’s scum otherwise he’d backed off a while ago

Also vander lost a lot of town points for his last few posts.
I feel like kawaii is a sheep at this point
BAAAAAA

This isn't enough for me, sorry.
I'm not moving my vote.

As Gimli said above, every single scum role is just going to claim generic PR if we allow them to get away with it, making it actually impossible to lim scum, which is not something I want to happen.

I also don't understand your stance of Gimli and I being scummy for this.
Like, even if you are good here, what's to stop scum from doing the exact same thing you're doing? Are we just supposed to back off of everyone who hard softs PR?
Is it some kind of secret that you're softing PR that you think a team of three scum would not have picked up on if I hadn't publicly talked about it?

I didn't back off of you because I think the way you've gone about this has been extremely scummy.
There are other ways to deal with someone publicly saying you're detective if you really are the detective, but basically everything you've said about it has actively been playing into that angle, like you're actively going out of your way to make it look like you are a PR whenever it gets mentioned.
I think if you were actually a PR you wouldn't try as much to lean into that angle.

[Vanderscamp]

I'm the assistant. I have been trying to bait the NK to keep my dect. safe, but it should have never come down to me claiming.

I don't think Gimli is kira, but I do think that Gimli is scum.
Vander has been bothering me especially with trying to do follow Gimli and run me up knowing that I was soft-breading.

None of this is town motivated.

So once I'm dead look into them.

Hard CC

I might have made it a bit too obvious that I knew Mala wasn't a PR, although FWIW I think even as VT I would have been SUPER suspicious and would have wanted to push there anyway even if I didn't know, but impossible to know.

[Vanderscamp]

I'm gone for a couple hours soon and will catch up with the rest later but this is not a play, I'm never rescinding this.

Assistant is the role any scum claims 100% of the time because she can't prove herself with a vig shot.

[Vanderscamp]

And if Mala rescinds, I don't care, we still just kill her

[Vanderscamp]

Basically the only good thing to come out of this is that one scum is outed and scum can't just do what Mala did anymore and try and survive based on nothing but a PR soft, because the other one isn't really claimable

[Vanderscamp]

Mala: "I'm one of the PRs"

Vander: "ehhh even though someone could counterclaim...you should still die"

This is the point, someone can NOT counterclaim "I'm a PR."

If I say "I'm the assistant, what are you then Mala?" then Mala can then just try to backtrack into saying she was a VT trying to do a thing.

I think VTs trying to take PR bullets is fine and I actually probably would have been completely fine with her doing it if she had been towny in literally any aspect of it, instead of just using it as a crutch.

[Vanderscamp]

What happens here?

Like I know this is a fake order, presumably we don't have to wait for the mod to confirm that, right?

[Vanderscamp]

Okay, I understand now. You are detective, but the real assistant would KNOW you were detective and would not counterclaim. So Vander is confirmed scum. Actually kinda brilliant. I am impressed Malakittens.

LOL

Mala is not detective, don't worry

[Vanderscamp]

So a few things:


Mala knows she's outed and this is a play from her to try and out the detective.
Please try not to react in obvious ways.

I don't want to say a lot about this but it blows my mind that anyone is thinking Mala is real here. I'm never claiming this as Kira so if she's real she's outing as detective D1 to shoot someone who almost certainly isn't Kira, which doesn't make any sense.


The actual play here we do now btw is we all vote Mala.
Either I die to the vig shot, which won't happen, or we get proof that Mala is lying, in which case we should just be snap limming her and moving on.

[Vanderscamp]

So a few things:


Mala knows she's outed and this is a play from her to try and out the detective.
Please try not to react in obvious ways.

I don't want to say a lot about this but it blows my mind that anyone is thinking Mala is real here. I'm never claiming this as Kira so if she's real she's outing as detective D1 to shoot someone who almost certainly isn't Kira, which doesn't make any sense.


The actual play here we do now btw is we all vote Mala.
Either I die to the vig shot, which won't happen, or we get proof that Mala is lying, in which case we should just be snap limming her and moving on.

oof

I'm glad you're town, I'd be eating so much rope for my d1 if you weren't

let's give it a second for enchant to at least be awake and then we'll vote mala and move on

STD/lorne contains the other scums imo

Gimli, you seem quick to believe him before anything's even

happened

.

This is the exact type of thing that's unproductive to discuss btw, the detective knows I'm real and likely no one else if Mala is a follower.

[Vanderscamp]

Not too late to rescind your detective claim btw Mala

[Vanderscamp]

If Mala is scum why not just claim detective right away to bait detective? That's what I don't get

Because she gets instantly outed, pretty clearly.

She claimed the role she has to claim and got the CC

[Vanderscamp]

But if she was going to do the detective shot anyway, why not

Because this way I get forced to CC.

[Vanderscamp]

do you think if StD just didn't claim that he would've won

Yes.


GG, I thought going into N1 we had that one locked

[Vanderscamp]

I’m still not exactly sure why vander cc’d me.

I’m curious on the thoughts on that.

Granted either way I still would have died, but vander basically cc’ing like helped town do a major solve.

If you were really the assistant, I think I probably get you limmed given the state of the thread.

If you're the detective, then I trade myself to out the detective D1 which I think is a SUPER good trade for us, especially since I didn't think STD was surviving five days without help.

If I knew for a fact he was going to kill you N1 anyway (but I don't think this is clear), and I somehow knew you were really the detective and not the assistant, then my claim becomes pretty pointless, but I felt good enough about STD not being obvious from my ISO that it was worth it.


I still do in hindsight, basically all STD has to do is survive the one day, and so many towns were tunneled on the wrong worlds.

[Vanderscamp]

Also Vander great play, I actually didn't even think you were follower, thought you were town. Well played.

Thanks, you too.

[Vanderscamp]

Oh, also relevant was that I had the check out ability, which I'm pretty sure was the only skill that would give info on whether Mala was follower or not after being limmed D1.

So knowing that town didn't have that ability meant that if Mala is assistant, I'm probably not even going to be outed.