Election! | GAME OVER

[ActionDan]

I'll vote for LLD if she selects mayor or Council member

[ActionDan]

Oh

[ActionDan]

Treasurer is fine. Definitely role with the more intensive strategic element behind it.

[ActionDan]

Not a funding priority

[ActionDan]

That was in response to #24

[ActionDan]

Anyone else think bloodbot has a good chance to be town because of the early take of the coveted board of election position?

Because I think it does

[ActionDan]

Pooky's 6 player PR prevote felt quite towny to me.

ATM Datsai is winning my sherif vote by default.

GL any particular reason you decided to campaign against/with pooky instead of meowth?

[ActionDan]

Admittedly at times I feel mildly dyslexic, sorry.

[ActionDan]

I personally want cakez to get his trash collector despite being of the mind that my candidacy there would be the most useful place for me

[ActionDan]

I'd like cakez to enjoy a PR based on my very limited experience playing with him.

I like the choices in both non cake singleton PR buckets and in the treasurer bucket I don't feel like competing with LLD.

[ActionDan]

The fate impersonation is spot on. Incredible

[ActionDan]

I'm underwhelmed by Bingle posts and takes

Why am I "very scummy"?

You're approaching the mech from a perspective of "How does scum benefit" instead of "How does town benefit" and I think it's a perspective slip. You're smart enough to know that we can use the threat of investigations to kill off scummy slots via scumkill, and yet have said nothing about that. You're playing obtuse about the actual power behind cop shots. Your "I want to 1v1 Pooky over mayor" bit feels lamist af.

Take your pick.

I don't remember a missed opportunity to opine about scummy slots being thrown into the sherif role for ritual sacrifice. Could you point out where that might have come into play in these mech arguments, and the scummy point where GL neglects to mention this?

In the exchange earlier between Datisi gl and Ausuka, I thought Ausuka comes out the worse for it. 92 reads artificially aggressive. The disbelief in other posts that GL would not think other players would find a cop role strong is attacking something GL never communicated.


Furtive if enchant flips scum do we have your blessing to flip you after post-haste?

[ActionDan]

hey Cakez do you actually scumread LLD
I townread you rn so if that’s a real read I’d like to understand why

You do? I don't think there's enough material from him to get a read either way. What stuck out as town to you?

[ActionDan]

I'm not afraid of secret ballots. They'll be exposed immediately after election phase. No reason not to play normally

[ActionDan]

Seconded @datisi

I'd add also that I would have taken 85 more seriously without the followup vote and unvote.

[ActionDan]

nono who is the pirate turtle

Bingle

[ActionDan]

358 is good posting.

[ActionDan]

Declare Council Member

I'm at work all day but I feel comfortable now.

[ActionDan]

I've had a rather townie impression of bingle thus far. I'll reread them to see if that holds up again.

[ActionDan]

I'm going to read up. But since I see some people argue whether its better to out or not out votes... the answer is...

It doesn't matter! We will all be accountable for them post this phase and there is little to no appreciable tactical difference for either town or scum.

[ActionDan]

Mayor guiltylion

I'm rereading still but could you tell me about where in this thread your read necessarily must have flipped?

@Datisi Enchant still scum to you, yes?

[ActionDan]

oh ok, got it. I disagree that's wise but I believe you believe it so I guess its ok. I assume that doesn't apply to the other choices at least

btw with all this talk surrounding owen's 222, can't they just answer the motivation for asking the question themselves, have they been in this thread yet to perhaps shed daylight on it?

My own opinion on UNOwen rides between Bingle's and Meowth's in that logically there isn't anything in the "fluffy short iso" I can pin down as scummy (I don't think either of 222 or 424 are egregiously scummy) but the fact that those are the only two posts that would qualify as content in 20 pages is.

[ActionDan]

hard agree with 696

[ActionDan]

I'll make my decisions after work but I'm not pleased to see selections of Enchant or UNOwen. I'm voting for Datisi and I would suggest unsubmitted town coordinate to vote either for Me or Meowth and not split votes

[ActionDan]

Currently reading herta/LLD to make a decision.

Will also figure out who has most votes between GL and Pooky so as to prevent SK from being elected mayor.

[ActionDan]

Herta:

Post 184: Herta who has up till this point posted filler making this post encouraging less filler from others is a tad hypocritical which I associate with scummy behavior

Swift resolution of posts 380, 386, and 391 strike me as a bit towny.

GL said post 640 was grandstanding. I don't read it nearly as harshly or harsh at all for that matter. Herta's clearly in the out vote camp as they had already outted their votes this post makes sense for them to make. Maybe that "I think that stuff is important" is a little over the top nothing that hasn't been seen before.

I happen to like 678

706 and 820 willingness to whiplash on a read like that is more likely towny plus it wouldn't have been hard to stick with a scum Ausuka read (I do!)

End of Iso.

From posts alone Herta has a good chance of being town. I do have worries that most of the post history is filler and that Herta while clearly seeming to have reads makes a minimal effort to expand on them.

LLD:

115: This post isn't that thought through, Scum even with secret voting are just probabilistically likely to know who is what based on immediately if even 1/4 of them makes to the PR PT and/or if one through in their ring for sheriff and doesn't get it.

240: I don't understand how Pooky's question isn't benign or what advantage scum would get if it were answered/discussed

Concerning the FATE method of scumhunting into Cakez: Its the pure undistilled essence of scumhunting. 308 and 311 are good posting. The entire exchange which fizzles ~321 is just really solid town posting from LLD.

Considering the outsourcing of reads to Pooky (who I agree is probably town), question for LLD; aside from the Cakez read which I don't know if you still hold, do you have any independent reads after some 35 odd pages that you aren't sharing or are you completely not in the flow anymore?

---

I think both Herta / LLD are likely town. I think I'll be voting for LLD only because I'm a bit more confident in that.

[ActionDan]

Pooky (5): Datisi, Herta, LLD, Meowth, ActionDan

GL (2): Bingle, Nono,

SK (5): Ausuka, Bloodbot, Enchant, Furtive, Cakez

Placing Ball squarely in UNOwen's court, Enjoy!

[ActionDan]

Looking into Cakez vs Furtive

[ActionDan]

Read both isos not going to get into finer points but I think both Furtive + Cakez are +town.

Still really hate your Enchant read Furtive. Please update / fix at my convenience, which is now.

Going to compile a list of people voting for one or the other.

[ActionDan]

Cakez (6): Bingle, Datisi, GL, Herta, Nono, ActionDan

Furtive (6/7?): Ausuka, Bloodbot, Enchant, Meowth, Pooky, SK, (presumably LLD)

Voting Cakez to once again, put the decision to UNOwen.

Though here either choice is probably fine.

My votes are thus:

Treasurer: LLD
Sheriff: Datisi
Major: Pooky
Trash Collector: Cakez
Board of Elections: Bloodbot

[ActionDan]

The only people so far I don't have at least some sort of townread on are Ausuka, UNOwen, Enchant, SK, and Nono. which range from null to scummy. And I'm not worried about Nono.

[ActionDan]

And of Auskuka, UNOwen, Enchant and SK, they all vote together and 3/4 of them are likely going to be PRs despite none of them being consensus town reads. I'd like to think that's telling.

[ActionDan]

were we reading the same posts

Your take would be appreciated as well so we can move on past vibes

[ActionDan]

Unsure what makes a scumread easy. I'd think it'd be a combination of low content / low volume posting. Nono, Herta, Cakez off the top of my head would also match that description yet I don't scumread them. I also think there is a correlation anyway between people who post high volume high signal to noise content like GL / Bingle to towniness. I've read their posts for understanding and like them, they are scumhunting and making decent sense while doing it.

[ActionDan]

Ah ok, what thoughts of mine aren't real to you. Which townreads then? I haven't fleshed out all of them in thread, but am available to do so now if you'd like.

Why is it unacceptable for UNOwen to be scumread or more precisely, why shouldn't I scumread him.

Why wouldn't Cakez / Herta be easy scumreads the same way? Herta is low content objectively, most of his posts are filler. Cakez less so.

I find Nono almost pure null. I guess that wasn't clear, whereas Enchant/SK more null scummy.

[ActionDan]

To knock the first two birds with one stone, the thing where you disagreed with the content of the read other people gave on Owen but scumread him anyway for having not posted much rubbed me the wrong way. It feels like something I've seen scum do before - the example that comes most prominently to my mind is Titus in Datisi's café. The fact you didn't comment on my link to the last game I played with him where he was basically the same way just made the read feel more eh. I think there's nothing wrong with scumreading Owen but I am always going to treat pushes on players with limbaity playstyles with more scrutiny.

I don't have the patience for looking over other games regardless of the reason unless I really feel obligated to do so and its essential for establishing a read; at the time I clicked the link skimmed for a sec and concluded that most of the posting was twitter posts and left it as is and don't particularly want to revisit. Besides I believe you said in that post that Owen got better as the game progressed which I do not see currently happening. We

are

37 pages are and while we haven't hit even the real voting stage that's a fair amount of volume. I don't mind the heightened scrutiny but comparing how I read Owen to how Titus read Owen in an entirely different game doesn't seem fair or reasonable to me. Unless you think there are reasons to townread Owen not based on Meta.

---

For Townreads of Meowth / Datisi.

Datisi I orginally read as largely null (minorly town) in the back and forth between you, him and GL but the read has developed over time in a unerring positive towny direction since. Starting with 167 I'd say. Like I don't wish to give an incredibly detailed history but the thoughts Datisi comes up with when he comes up with them from time to time are reflective of my own. Examples: 352 Re: Enchant / Furtive, 684 re: Owen's 222 and GL response to it, 758 this explanations of his ballot choices. Furthermore I have yet to see a post of his that pings me as scummy in anyway.

Meowth I suppose is more of a reach: Very early on 162 pinged me as a little towny. I liked the willingness to casually discard a high volume convo about the importantance or lack thereof of the cop and questions surrounding people's views of it. I happened to enjoy it but I admit it did cause a little brain damage. By the time of 213 and 349 my initial slight town read had degraded precisely because I really didn't see a reason not to give those reads out and I had no good idea what Meowth was thinking (aside from the Cakez stance). This was also why I jumped on the Council seat position because I couldn't trust if Meowth would come out as town or not post Campaign phase. And then immediately after Meowth comes out strong against Owen in a way that I liked and accept. Not as strong a read as Datisi but I'm comfortable with it. I think the only thing I'd like to ask Meowth... is why the Enchant vote?

[ActionDan]

huh not sure how me/pooky got there

[ActionDan]

I voted as I said I did. Anyone want to change their answers XD

[ActionDan]

I didn't count my own votes between me + Owen but pretty sure the Pooky vote was on a knife's edge

[ActionDan]

^ In agreement

[ActionDan]

They were twitter posts, their contents I did not delve into. Futhermore posting style is not the reason I'm scumreading him, its because of the lack of content.

[ActionDan]

I think we should post our Ballet choices now for posterity's sake for ease of counting and lookup later

FINAL BALLOT CHOICES D1:

Treasurer: LLD
Sheriff: Datisi
Mayor: Pooky
Trash Collector: Cakez
Board of Elections: Bloodbot

These were mine could everyone do similar?

[ActionDan]

I saw that but its kinda clear Nono's mind operates in a different dimension. I wholeheartedly support their increased engagement though I'm sure that goes without saying.

As for my own vote I'm going to reread a bit.

[ActionDan]

I've been quite sick last two days will try to get something in tomorrow.

Reads haven't changed drastically from the briefest of skims

[ActionDan]

All right all right.

I'm back god life's been suck.

Let's DO THIS

[ActionDan]

Initial impressions of StD (replacing Nono):

Early posts look ok.

Question: post 1171, was 222 really good enough to deserve

Unowen

Ausuka being scumread off what I considered just a very random innocuous post is a bit surprising, sure it doesn't serve much purpose I guess. I see more context for this later; acceptable.

i like how people constantly think i come into places and antagonize people who aren't antagonized enough in games and think there's some scum agenda to doing so because they're not thinking about whether or not there's a scum agenda.

what purpose do i have besides causing chaos in antagonizing people until they eventually scumread me

I just want to point this quote out. I don't know if you can see this but your style in this game is, if not abrasive, then not equitable at least. You withhold your comprehensive thoughts while dishing out questions in a live format. Were I engaging with you I'd bet I'd feel exhausted easily. Not NAI though.

1381: ya I need to look at Meowth's posts again but these would be my initial reactions too. Will check eventually to see Meowth's followup to their readslist summary. As furtive mentions in 1382 some more flesh is needed here.

At first skim this looks null-town, definitely appreciate the more cognizant posting.

[ActionDan]

Was just reading Xofelf's 4 posts (replacing Ausuka) and came across this from Bingle:

I’d start with GL if you want to do an iso catchup

That's the last person to iso!

Iso me, mine's short and pleasant and has the benefit of being one that both suspected Ausuka + someone Ausuka suspected.

[ActionDan]

Reread Unowen.

I am softening my scumread there by a little bit. Ironically Ausuka's take that they get better... seems to be true? The only reason I say this is because I thought about it more and I'm ok with the way they are defending against Meowth. Still the pace of getting better is a bit slow and while I see little questions here and there I can't help but feel UNOwen has a distinct possibility of purposely holding back. UNOwen has at least some reads at the ready, see 993, but had only elaborated on Ausuka's (scum read and thus most important) when pressed. It's hard to tell because reading back UNowen has a penchant for self-sabotage and purposely active lurking prior to elimination phase.

[ActionDan]

More of a proddodge.

I keep rereading meowth iso and keep thinking its town. I

can

see an internal consistency between their first posting of a readslist 1338 and the followup 1467. I'd question only that Ausuka null-town read again, and ask for an expansion on it. There are also certain individual posts that make me think Meowth is town but I'd be hard pressed to say why, posts like 1337 and 1470 the latter of which is part of a back and forth between Meowth and LLD that I didn't detect a false ring to it from Meowth. My only question to followup on it would be why does it feel like you don't have the confidence to formulate a read off LLD from the early part of the game where LLD was engaged? The pursuit of UNOwen is fine to me. I do on a certain level resonate with 1268 It's relatively true.

StD, Xofelf's reads may well line up with the consensus, but why do you think that in itself would be more likely from scum than town?

[ActionDan]

VOTE: SK

Parking my car here for a bit.

[ActionDan]

@alisae

[ActionDan]

The fresh blood is quite lively. I'll have time to read tonight after train

[ActionDan]

Some asked about our PT. 6 pages about equal contribution. Quite chill

[ActionDan]

I don't think a bingle townread is a particular read that risks the biscuit

[ActionDan]

Gimli's entrance felt quite town, would anyone like to dispute?

[ActionDan]

what do you make of the fact that meowth has fallen off in engagement the past few days as the wagon on him grew? I totally get what you're saying here and had similar feelings as well, but I've been waiting for meowth to do more and he's just kinda faded into background. That's not necessarily alignment indicative as town or scum

should

want to try harder to stay alive, but it's hard for me to feel good about taking my foot off the gas and I have half a mind that he's just in antispew mode

My reminder to look into this. Doing isos makes me lose real time perspectiveness a lot. They were able to engage with LLD at the least. I'll take a looks to see what engagements with their wagoners exist and if I they ought to be faulted for ignoring them (I do this a lot as both alignments anyway)

[ActionDan]

I'm not sure what you'd want to know Bingle. Currently we've all confirmed the funding we'd need to fund individual roles, pooky outed his abilities explicitly while I've opted to do so implicitly. LLD has told us how many of us she can fund. LLD now has to decide who she'll fund.

[ActionDan]

Maybe but there aren't any secrets that would make a difference outted now or latter. Might as well hold out hope for that 20% chance

[ActionDan]

Alright then gl.

[ActionDan]

I thought cakez was an ok shot from both meowth interactions and election/elimination votes. Enchant dying is a win. However Enchant dying might well imply that there was scum in the hood since I think it would have been known that Enchant wasn't getting protection. I wanted to WIFOM that a bit more.

I do think UNowen has a better chance to be town, the bussing potential being less likely since Meowth out of the gate came for the UNowen scum read.

[ActionDan]

I don't want Furtive on the council.

Post funding and post flip reading back he pestered Pooky on whether Pooky was shooting Xof. The option to doc Enchant was still a choice based on the list of funding numbers that was posted.

I said it was obvious to doc the cop

This never happened, nor was it ever implied that it should happen in the PT by furtive.

[ActionDan]

Pooky not wanting to Doc enchant is 100% correct though, but if LLD gave him an underfunded amount Pooky might have done it anyway.

[ActionDan]

I think its part and parcel of aggrandizing his contributions in the PT. To what end? I don't know but I don't like it.

[ActionDan]

I don't want Furtive on the council.

Post funding and post flip reading back he pestered Pooky on whether Pooky was shooting Xof. The option to doc Enchant was still a choice based on the list of funding numbers that was posted.

I said it was obvious to doc the cop

This never happened, nor was it ever implied that it should happen in the PT by furtive.

I thought I said it but yeah I didn't. I think it was pretty obvious what I thought though because I loudly townread Enchant.

Ok but your position was that the cop should be funded, and we could debate the merits of funding either a JOAT or tracker. That very much implies you didn't think it was absolutely necessary to fund a JOAT specifically for protecting the cop.

[ActionDan]

Ok assuming that's true you still placed "tracker" and "JOAT's doc" as two viable options when discussing the 2nd role to fund after cop, correct?

[ActionDan]

We'll probably be funding 3 roles today so I'd like people universally town read like either LLD/sheep to be sheriff.

[ActionDan]

Happy to support UNowen as my old role

[ActionDan]

Happy to support UNowen as my old role

Anything other than the CW, or is there deeper logic here?

I agree that UNowen is probably town for that and for the tinfoil reasoning of the townread on me showing a deeper attempt at reading motivation, but I'd be glad to hear any additional arguments.

Tinfoil read of you was not a good one certainly, but CW plus the fact that it was Meowths initial push goes a long way. At the time before the push meowth did not have suspicion on them, so I find their push more weighty. An argument for bussing exists but there's no point in entertaining it now.

You had a comment about me suggesting putting in a townread for sheriff made you want not to do that. Why?

[ActionDan]

Ok assuming that's true you still placed "tracker" and "JOAT's doc" as two viable options when discussing the 2nd role to fund after cop, correct?

Yes, I wanted to use my role.

I later misremembered the exact things I disagreed with LLD and Pooky on.

This is not the important issue - the important issue is that the Treasurer was manipulated by Pooky into killing town.

I feel like I've just eaten a bacon sandwich the wrong way. FFS

I looked back and it does seem LLD only revealed she could fund 2 roles after your comment so I guess that's fine.

But I don't see where Pooky even comes close to manipulating anyone. We were all involved in the process imo. Could you point to a post number that would support your assertion?

[ActionDan]

I'm going to reiterate and make explicit why I just don't want some null slot as cop.

We likely have the ability to fund 3 roles tonight. Both JOATs have a doc. The Treasurer can dictate which Joat uses what doc via the incremental numbers strategy. We should expect the cop to survive. That's benefit #1. The other is I'd like to have a cop check with some confidence comes from town so we trust it and don't have to Elim the cop to do so completely.

[ActionDan]

A rush on positions while I'm at work

Declare: Sheriff

If you guys really have reservations about my slot I'm happy to get shot for the cause.

[ActionDan]

It does kinda suck to see UNOwen and LLD in the same slot.

[ActionDan]

Majors be greedy

[ActionDan]

Sheep should go for treasurer.

[ActionDan]

How hard could it really be

[ActionDan]

Not that I don't trust you but I've felt a tad unsettled recently by your posting

[ActionDan]

Not that I don't trust you but I've felt a tad unsettled recently by your posting

Is it just xof/furtive/dan? Is it really that easy?

Posts like these are in flavor of my concern.

Your analysis recently and habit of placing people in buckets strike me as shallow.

[ActionDan]

:/

I've done basically nothing but mechstuff, because there's a really good chance that we just win off of mechstuff at this point. Trying to derail a mechwin is not a good look for you, but it is pretty much your only option if that is the team. The fact that you're worried about me being treasurer as soon as I start suspecting you just makes me think I'm right.

This does not pass the smell test.

Aka. "We win off mechstuff, I am doing mech stuff, therefore you're derailing me."

No I don't think I am. I am very much in support of using incremental funding to signal what power roles should do. I also wanted to guarantee a cop doc if possible. It would have been easier if we could fund 3 roles but even if LLD thinks only 2 can be funded today I think its still worth going for. I do not think you in particular are instrumental for implementation of that basic policy. There is no correlation to this mech strategy to the team you proposed which again looks completely arbitrary.

[ActionDan]

My ballot is thus, btw:

Treasurer LLD
Sherriff enchant
Mayor guiltylion
Council Member meowth
Trash Collector sircakez
Board of Election bloodb0t

Explain your meowth and sircakez votes here please. I know GL and Enchant were because you thought them scummy.

[ActionDan]

Explain your meowth and sircakez votes here please. I know GL and Enchant were because you thought them scummy.

I was townreading meowth at that point in the game, and in fact was townreading meowth even past the readslist. The point where my read there changed was here:

I am losing confidence in meowth scumread but I am not sure if that's a good or correct thing

Really? Opposite. I didn't think the initial callout of your vote was worth raising an eyebrow over (it struck me as a vanity/pressure wagon on a likely to be replaced slot and thus probably a waste of time overall, but not a waste of time that was worth exploring.) The response to pressure since has been a flailfest.

Sircakez and GL were both votes based on weak scumreads that I thought would be potentially clarified based on their choices. Sircakez was in a role I thought less likely to have that happen, because tracker is a very weak investigation early on in the game and grows more powerful as the game continues to the point where it becomes a second cop if we only have one scum left.

Enchant was never a scumread for me. Enchant was a "I'll never be able to read this so I don't have any problem with it being killed" read for me. I voted there because I would have been much less happy had the day started with the phrase "Datisi/Ausuka has been killed."

Admittedly 1487 does not look like something scum says about a partner at that stage especially in response to GL lightening pressure on meowth.

What prompted you to group me furtive and xof together in the first place exactly?

[ActionDan]

out of the competitive slots I'm voting STD/Pooky. For LLD/Owen I don't have a preference.

[ActionDan]

I'm not sure what the clique is you refer to. If there's anything grouping some of these players together it's the shared spots on the meowth wagon.

Re furtive: I still want to know how/why he thinks Pooky manipulated LLD into shooting cakez, or even just the list in general given. I want it spelled out a bit more.

[ActionDan]

To make an omlette some eggs make break. And then scrambled. And then beat. And then fried.

[ActionDan]

Jury is still out on xof I believe they have half the players to read pending but for this exercise ill assume town.

I cant evaluate the first point but I'll take your word for it. Undeniably the 2nd is true.

As for the 3rd Pooky gave a list of names and actions including doccing enchant. We also had the opportunity to edit and discuss this. There was not a straightforward way he could get LLD to ensure a xof shot specifically. But let us further assume he offered only a xof shot. His facilitation of that cannot be considered manipulation since LLD made the choice. Manipulation would occur if Pooky influenced that choice or steered her decision in that direction but to my recollection there's no evidence of Pooky doing that.

[ActionDan]

Why is everyone now completely in agreement that we actively want a Mafia player to give us a false cop check?

You mean SK the perennial "He's null guys!"

[ActionDan]

Submitting votes now.

[ActionDan]

Furtive you've become the American electorate

[ActionDan]

Quick answer:

I doubt it.

Long answer:

I could use to reread him. That is not an easy task.

[ActionDan]

Point to posts you think come from a wolf and I can look at those first if you wish.

[ActionDan]

Bingle
STD
UNOwen
GL
Pooky

[ActionDan]

SK gonna survive 2 days.

Pedit: I think you're both town, but wanted to contribute to shock value in case UNowen did actually win

[ActionDan]

My guess is 2 to 1 ratio

[ActionDan]

Compared ot Ausuka, Xof's showing actual read progression.

This I agree with but I am mindful that its 3/13 or so thus far.

[ActionDan]

While meowth was looking like probable execution their wagon was sitting at 5 for a while until a verifiable flash quick hammer. Before that Xof was able to do the 3 shortest isos anyway. Actually wasn't meowth one of them? I just remember mine

[ActionDan]

Although I don't give the same town credentials Alisae gives Xof during the last 2 cycles I share the perspective of 2595 going forward

[ActionDan]

Sure but that shouldn't translate to town

[ActionDan]

What do you think Xofelf scum would do. Perhaps preempting a general answer, what would Xof's defense look like.

[ActionDan]

Right, so there’s no reason not to reveal this: it is incredibly important that town get treasurer, funding is randomly based on remaining number of players, among other things, and there is considerable potential utility to withholding funds for later days.

scale of 1 to 10. how difficult is it to play the role optimally.

[ActionDan]

I didn't want Gimli to be scum but I think you might be right

[ActionDan]

So, for role related reasons, I think LLD is townier than she was yesterday. I could maybe explain this, but I think there's a specific value in leaving it vague. tl;dr it has to do with statistical likelihoods about the treasurer role and me getting a bit of information that I don't think LLD would have realized I'd get explicitly. To firm up this evidence, open call to anyone in the PT yesterday: how explicit was LLD with how much funding she could give?

2 roles only, more and we are in a bad position later. Paraphrasing

[ActionDan]

If this for some reason comes down to furtive or gimli/Lorne I prefer a Lorne Elim precisely because there scum furtive has a good chance of implying scum gimli but not the other way around.

[ActionDan]

I'm actually quite surprised SK isn't voting me here.

Lorne what is the next thing you plan to do.

[ActionDan]

That is how would you next spend your time on this game

[ActionDan]

Guess I'll take that as is!

VOTE: Lorne

Personally I think he outted himself in the last two pages. But you guys tell me.

Lorne discovered the ISO button here so we'll start from there as I'm taking that point in time as when he seriously started to scumhunt.

Clearly his reads are derived from Meowth's iso. Aside from the way Lorne got to his vote on me 2779 + 2780 use the same tool for the Xof vote. Perfectly fine. Very weak reason for the Xof vote, but sure take it. 2789 hurls some more Meowth quotes and I'll reduce the conclusions from them into a succinct "bad" for charity's sake (and besides GL thinks the same so there you have it).

> Votes a sus dude

This is the outting part, I don't care that it's part of a jokey post. He hasn't read my iso. (or Xof's). Yet he's confident to say this here and is quite happy to chill now. This is a scum mindset. Do you know what a town mindset might look like? This one!

I'm gonna be around for a bit! plan is to reread meowth ISO + gimli/furtive but also available for real time jamming

[ActionDan]

Sure I'm happy to 1v1 until we're both dead

[ActionDan]

yes all you are is made of vibes

[ActionDan]

at least it isn't too far down, but it's clearly the meowth

And yes, meowth's ISO is all I need. Why would I read your ISO?

If anyone else actually wants an answer to this as to why this is not coming from town feel free to speak up

[ActionDan]

Reading a scum's iso is valuable to try to figure out exactly what you might think. associations. But while it can be a good tool it's not a tell-all and scum's isos should always be analyzed with some care. Scum are obviously mindful of associations and in Lorne's own words "interactions". There is implicit WIFOM in trusting scum's reads to be the opposite of the truth. But I'll ask you, do you solely form reads from a scum iso? I know I don't. I read people that I think might be associated with my findings in the scum iso at the very least. I do not think there is a town in existence that would feel comfortable basing a read solely on a scum iso and being satisfied with that.

[ActionDan]

that was @Furtive

[ActionDan]

Point to posts you think come from a wolf and I can look at those first if you wish.

This is still an open item furtive

[ActionDan]

2910 is a good assessment and reading of the material.

[ActionDan]

A lot of his posts just make sense for an uninformed person who is figuring things out - for the single most compelling reason I think would be:

IMO Bingle is town because he appeared to miss two points about the game setup in thread that I think Binglescum with his mechanical head would have already squared: a) the belief that it was possible to change election votes and b) that scum have extra powers that haven’t been revealed. The second point is more significant.

Could be faked but don’t think it would be his style to fake mechanics confusion as scum.

I don't think he makes this read on Bingle when LLD wants to murder Bingle. It is not good for scum!him regardless of Bingle's alignment

makes sense

I was looking back through Gimli's iso and want to mark this post for the future because I dislike all parts of it. I am otherwise finding Gimli's iso pretty ok :/

[ActionDan]

We've half way through the day. Council check?

[ActionDan]

I know the 'bad associations with meowth' case might not be convincing but I'm not really seeing a lot there to townread this strongly?

Was this the extent of the strength of your vote and presumable scumread?

[ActionDan]

Will respond to GL after work

[ActionDan]

I know the 'bad associations with meowth' case might not be convincing but I'm not really seeing a lot there to townread this strongly?

Was this the extent of the strength of your vote and presumable scumread?

eh, it's not a particularly strong read/vote but it's founded on stronger townreads elsewhere

I'm having trouble building a workable framework for the game right now. furtive and xof both feel like meh wagons to me, I don't feel either is especially likely to flip scum and mainly I lost a lot of faith in xof!scum once I realized the slip wasn't legit and I looked over Ausuka/meowth interactions

you didn't really do anything useful with your vote on D1, voteparking on SleepyKrew (a scumread that has since evaporated?). No one has really pushed you all that strongly or looked your way other than Lorne, who I feel is town. You seem a bit detached from the main threads of the game in the way scum like to operate and in a way that is more likely to occur if scum isn't looking to push you.

Also, your case in 2830 and 2847 feels kinda rote to me - like you found something you could believably push Lorne over and are gunning on that while glossing over the lack of depth to it. Like your argument is basically that Lorne is scum because he decided you were scum from meowth's ISO without looking at your ISO, but like... that doesn't feel hard to imagine coming from town who is lazy? why wouldn't scum try to also look through your ISO to bolster their push, and wouldn't they be more concerned with appearances?

SK can still quite easily be scum. His trajectory today is a bit surprising if he is. He is a cop at the moment so I'm not inclined to look deeply at someone that we don't have a good reason to elim today (do you think otherwise?).

You've summed up my argument fine, though you are leaving out the very poignant air of certainly Lorne felt about his own conclusion. As for the idea that his stance isn't hard to imagine coming from lazy town -- yes it is in fact very hard to imagine. Whether you are lazy or not, you know as town that purely isoing scum will not certain results yield since you know you are limiting yourself to full information and that there are pitfalls when only relying on scums word. If you are town you should feel this in your bones. As for your next two questions: a) if lazy town is a thing then surely lazy scum is too but scum also can tailor the extent and pacing of their pushes, test waters, etc. No need to go for early grand slams; b) you think Lorne isn't concerned with appearances? Half their posts are contrived to inject some kind of humor into the game. They've been playing for vibes, with some success.

I think you're trying to add "depth" to his actions where there isn't. It really can just be simple.

[ActionDan]

As for Xof.

I've enjoyed their content when they post. It's been slow coming, and arguably isn't as efficiently focused to the current gamestate/wagons as it could be but I all too well know that feeling as both town and scum catching up. we still have a good 4 days. But imo one's mental health is paramount so if you want there really is no shame in replacing out and passing the torch.

[ActionDan]

"wait I dont get cred?"

This also just feels really fake to me, like not a thought that sheep would actually have.

like here is every mention of ausuka/xof in sheep's iso:

ausuka villagery then wolfy

ehh I townread the people who pushed GL cuz they thought really similar things to me at the same time that I thought them
that's like ausuka + there might've been someone else

update on my reading is that wagoning auskua/xof slot seems fine

ausuka defended meowth. is that the sort of stuff that would make someone a confident wolf to u? could u look at that?

then in 2957 sheep has "reached the end of D1" and now xof is in the bottom tier with no further explanation. And now sheep thinks they should get

credit

for a xof elimination? I'm having a hard time thinking that's genuine

idk the more I think about it the more I don't like it

Sheep in light of the above how did you develop your scum read of ausuka over time. Details are encouraged

[ActionDan]

There's honestly no need for this hammer to drop right now we have 3 days

[ActionDan]

About associatives with meowth, I also defended meowth a fair bit. Lorne won't know that though because he won't read my iso .

[ActionDan]

I have more to talk about with GL. Will do so after work

[ActionDan]

Agree with the sheep assessment

[ActionDan]

Me

It'll be another 2 hours before I can post properly.

Take your WIM and play a video game

[ActionDan]

Really all I want to do is go over this

SK can still quite easily be scum. His trajectory today is a bit surprising if he is. He is a cop at the moment so I'm not inclined to look deeply at someone that we don't have a good reason to elim today (do you think otherwise?).

You've summed up my argument fine, though you are leaving out the very poignant air of certainly Lorne felt about his own conclusion. As for the idea that his stance isn't hard to imagine coming from lazy town -- yes it is in fact very hard to imagine. Whether you are lazy or not, you know as town that purely isoing scum will not certain results yield since you know you are limiting yourself to full information and that there are pitfalls when only relying on scums word. If you are town you should feel this in your bones. As for your next two questions: a) if lazy town is a thing then surely lazy scum is too but scum also can tailor the extent and pacing of their pushes, test waters, etc. No need to go for early grand slams; b) you think Lorne isn't concerned with appearances? Half their posts are contrived to inject some kind of humor into the game. They've been playing for vibes, with some success.

I think you're trying to add "depth" to his actions where there isn't. It really can just be simple.

on the SK question - no, I'm not saying we should lim him today, I'm just trying to feel like I have a good grasp on what the game looks like if xof!scum and to me it doesn't make a lot of sense. It means either scum are just getting routed and all but waving a white flag, or they feel comfortable with the standing of their other two members (against the council for tonight and the thread's overall consensus) to dump another member on D2 and make it a 10v2 going into the night. it just doesn't feel especially likely to me, and even in the latter world it means other scum feel good about their position right now

I'll grant you that Lorne does lean a bit on the humor/vibe shtick, but I don't feel certainty is a scumtell in the way you're suggesting here. I've been reading his bravado as somewhat tongue in cheek, and frankly the only way I see some of those comments as scum!confidence (like the 'reap that sweet sweet cred' remark) is if he knows xof is a miselimination anyways

as for your last sentence - if you're content to sit back and assume that the game is "simple" on D2 you're setting yourself up to be blindsided far more often than not. like I think it's much better to do our due diligence and question our assumptions than to not do that and coast

I am really confused about the point you're trying to make in the first paragraph in relation to my post, if there is any or if this is just a segue into an esoteric point that if Xof is scum SK probably isn't because he's about as proactive as dry yeast?

Whether he's tongue in cheek, whether he's dead serious about his position (which he is), he's projecting the same certainty. Do not give people the luxury of having it both ways. The extenuating circumstance around Xof wouldn't detract from his confidence regardless of their flip. If town as you said, he wasn't focusing there. If scum,

I

haven't been focusing there and my equity as a candidate for elimination remains unchanged or even increases the next day so tell me why you think it would be out of scum's range to project confidence in that situation? Do not confuse my "simple" argument for rejection of all other matters related to the slot. I'm gone over both of Herta's and Gimli's isos and you can say both town things about them and scum things. I think both have been presented by various people so far and I can rehash them if you'd like. I think Lorne's behavior so far is pretty damning and its more than enough to get a good read. Now if there's something you think is redeeming about Lorne go ahead and tell me instead of enumerating these non-existant hypotheticals. please.

I could also probably talk about sheep/bloodbot the 1st council paranoia but I don't care to elaborate further than: Bloodbot was pretty town D1, and 1/3 vs 2/rest of eligible non-1st council members is close to a distinction without a difference

----

I am in agreement that Xof not posting now very likely means they've given up if as they've claimed they weren't hampered by a mental block. GL can talk if he wants before day end because I suspect of their bullets scum have one with his name on it in the chamber.

[ActionDan]

I'm going to assume there was scum thought it worthy killing a reasonably town potentially funded tracker.

[ActionDan]

Wow we are really underfunded. I like how there was even less money to use last night when we tried to be conservative the night before

[ActionDan]

I'm hoping LLD saved that "powerful" ability. I would have.

[ActionDan]

well SK

did

survive.

The cop surviving and getting a result seems to be the only thing that I'd consider a success from the abilities granted us.

[ActionDan]

I don't think LLD has to reveal what she did last night. none of it is too useful unless she has an effective guilty which would only be wise to reveal after SK gives the cop result.

[ActionDan]

AD do you think LLD's play makes sense knowing what you know about the CM abilities? I'd defer to your judgment if you can vouch that there's an ability she may have used that would make sense to slow roll like this for town benefit

The answer to this is yes.

[ActionDan]

You weren't in 1st council where I very much gave away what the nature of the powerful ability is. I probably wouldn't have used it or necessarily pushed to be funded just to use it in N2's circumstances. I don't know what transpired 2nd council so I can't give a nuanced answer

[ActionDan]

Also, if this becomes an issue which I don't think it will, I can always reprise my role to know exactly which ability was used.

cut: precisely

[ActionDan]

alright very well

[ActionDan]

they're not

that

good haha (well aside the 1)

[ActionDan]

I think with SK's result... that'll be me

[ActionDan]

I guess first order of business is do we go with the Cop chain plan or elim SK. I'm going to read Gimli's iso once again and hope Icher produces something deterministic one way or the other

[ActionDan]

I'm having a hard time coming up with 2 other scum even if Herta/Gimli/Lorne/Ircher slot is scum. Gonna think about what might make sense

[ActionDan]

There were good Lorne posts?

I wonder if SK copping me does in fact, track

Probably

[ActionDan]

Aside from the fun panicky mechanics planning we as a whole ought to really have a nice deep think.

[ActionDan]

LLD and Bingle with regard to Mechanics.

Naturally, I think SK dying by scum's hand is the best result we can get, but I don't think scum will necessarily oblige. And as bingle said if SK is scum, which is completely possible, if he is given the chance to perform two investigations they will be worthless once town is forced to elim him. And there's always the possibility of a fake result too.

I do think chaining is probably the better way to go about it. There are two chains. 1) New Cop X --> Targets SK ---> AD ; 2) SK ---> New Cop AD targets ----> New Cop Target X

I want to think of it from this perspective. there are 11 players left and 3 scum and therefore we have worst case two miselims before elim or lose. While this remains the case I think we are better off spending the JOAT Docs we have these two nights and get two more guaranteed results. Especially if we can use the Doc to save someone we want to save (I am also biased to live more than SK). I am therefore in favor of the 2nd Cop chain and I think Bingle is correct. I also think scum's choice in kill even if town has no way to produce cop/doc WIFOM is not a pleasant one. Sure they can kill in say {LLD, STD, GL} but they can't really do anything about the cop chain or else have to start killing SK which isn't a winning strategy. They could try to predict who I'd cop but that's hella risky because that's the equivlent of 2 miselims if they miss and even if they hit well they are doing the cop's job (again this is also why I prefer #2 chain because I think a kill on me isn't one scum would feel bad making at this point). And leaving the SK --> AD ---> X line intact might be a little paranoia inducing but that has to be an exact team of all scum worst case and analyzing that question shouldn't be hard.

LLD I'll read your posts about mech again to see if there's your trajectory would yield better dividends but I currently am favoring Bingle's approach.

[ActionDan]

Maybe I'll put it this way.

Say we do something like SK cops and whomever is tracker (which we'll say is the alternative town investigative power that's worth something and is slightly lower budget) tracks and/or whatever WIFOM we introduce. Let's say we elim ircher and they are town and scum shoots me. SK gives another result and the tracks a dud. What would be the plan from there, and is this outcome better than the cop chain above.

[ActionDan]

We don't have much more time to declare. I'm intending to go sheriff. Just fyi

[ActionDan]

Declare: Sheriff

[ActionDan]

That was dumb imo. Not that it affects my read

[ActionDan]

I'm having deju vu I don't know why

[ActionDan]

LLD/Bingle maybe split mayor/treasurer?

[ActionDan]

The competition sure is fierce today

[ActionDan]

I'll go over bingle's list wednesday night likely.

[ActionDan]

Sorry I never got to this. Tonight better, wfh day

[ActionDan]

Sorry I never got to this. Tonight better, wfh day

I did promise this didn't I.

:,(

I'm not hating on ircher's recent posting as much as others actually. Don't get me wrong none of it is indicative of town but I am a little surprised people are waking up to it now than yesterday when Lorne was at the helm.

I still like sheep for town.

Will take a closer look at Furtive SK soon tonight TM

[ActionDan]

Gg well played scum!

[ActionDan]

Gg well played scum!

<3

Enjoyed playing with you friend, been a long time nice to see you in a game

Same to you! You definitely snowed me this game

[ActionDan]

I'd say not protecting the cop would have been a small even barely noticeable clue myself