Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[DragonEater70]

I was in the middle of pushing Doctor Drew when suddenly D1 was ended fue to scum powers, and then the game was compromised D2.
So now I finally get to VOTE: Doctor Drew

[DragonEater70]

HURT: usesPython
HURT: Doctor Drew
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Enchant
HURT: Merlyn

That is a really weird statement. Care to explain how you got all these townreads?

[DragonEater70]

Fair enough. Last game it didn't matter but I think there was a change in nightmare rules which tbh I haven't looked into thoroughly just yet. Lemmie have a quick look.

HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Kyogo

[DragonEater70]

@Mod I actually have a question about Nightmare voting: you explain the minimum and maximum of participants, but how are the actual participants chosen? Is there a target number of votes needed and then you participate?

[DragonEater70]

What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?

Probably nothing, but if I interpret the OP correctly we can only use vig with 5 players in the nightmare. Unless actually it's 5 minimum and we get more powers with more players? In which case vig is OP.

[DragonEater70]

Are runners elected game daily?

Yeah, there's a new vote every game day.

[DragonEater70]

Fair enough. Last game it didn't matter but I think there was a change in nightmare rules which tbh I haven't looked into thoroughly just yet. Lemmie have a quick look.

HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Kyogo

This vote is ignored, due to proposals needing at least 5 people to preserve my sanity in making VCs.

@Mod I actually have a question about Nightmare voting: you explain the minimum and maximum of participants, but how are the actual participants chosen? Is there a target number of votes needed and then you participate?

The minimum amount of players needed each night for the Nightmare is five, with the maximum number of participants allowed in the Nightmare being however many players are left alive. The participants are chosen via a vote a la Coalition style, where people submit a list of names, (at least five, up to however many are left alive), and players are allowed to either vote for an existing proposal, or create their own proposal. An example proposal would be:

HURT: Korina, Maruchan, Oclaxian Empire, T-Bone, Vex Vience.

Someone can then either vote those same players, and agree to the proposal, or add their own proposal to the list of proposals. If a player is confirmed in any means, they are not required to be added to future proposals, and the minimum number of players needed to be included in a proposal is reduced by one, to account for the fact out of the five needed players, there is already however many confirmed. An example involving a proposal with a confirmed player in the Nightmare (Korina):

HURT: Maruchan, Oclaxian Empire, T-Bone, Vex Vience

The above is valid, provided one player is already confirmed to run the Nightmare.

Oh okay so it's basically like how it was last game I think. Cool.

[DragonEater70]

I'm going to have to figure out what this nightmare thing is at some point, aren't I? Sigh.

i wasn't in the original so i have no clue what's going on mech-wise.

Um okay now that mod clarified I think I can give an ELI5 style explanation (since I played last game):
Every day we nominate players which we trust to run the "nightmare". The nightmare is basically a PT that has extra powers, and lasts for one night. So for example, they can choose to collectively vig someone, or to grant a one-shot invention to someone.
The Nightmare PT is only open for one night though, and then we get a new vote the following day for which players we want on it.

[DragonEater70]

What's stopping us from adding every living person to the Nightmare every night other than me not wanting to type out everyones names?

Probably nothing, but if I interpret the OP correctly we can only use vig with 5 players in the nightmare. Unless actually it's 5 minimum and we get more powers with more players? In which case vig is OP.

Fuck, I thought I fixed all the typographical errors in the OP. This will be fixed to say "5 or more players" momentarily.

ty!

[DragonEater70]

I keep trying to post something about mech and keep getting ninja'd so I just gave up. Let's do something game advancing.

There's not much right now but I am getting town vibes from Aureal, and slight townleans from Python and Titus. Not so much on std and Abnegation. I'm still trying to understand Abnegation's claim though.
VOTE: Abnegation
Do you wanna explain the rationale behind the claim?

[DragonEater70]

I keep trying to post something about mech and keep getting ninja'd so I just gave up. Let's do something game advancing.

There's not much right now but I am getting town vibes from Aureal, and slight townleans from Python and Titus. Not so much on std and Abnegation,

though I haven't seen anything really scummy from them either. Unless you count that weird claim from Abnegation. Still trying to understand that.

VOTE: Abnegation
Do you wanna explain the rationale behind the claim?

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

lol you have reads? how does anyone have reads at this point?
why would you assume there is a rationale behind my claim? what reason do you have to think that?

I dunno, I just saw your post and started working me old brain very hard trying to figure out if it's a real claim or a softclaim or what. But I guess the simplest explanation is it's just a random page 1 claim, I guess.
And yeah I don't have SOLID READS, but I do have vibes. And if we don't start voting people and disucssing vibes and reads we're not gonna get anywhere. I will UNVOTE: though, because I really don't have a scum read on you rn. Just null af.
But seriously we need to have some real content and more people here.

[DragonEater70]

my guess is it's a joke

If you ask a scum mason if they're a scum mason they have to tell you, it's like the law

yeah exactly, i'm just a law-abiding scum mason.

Okay you can be town too. I guess scum just hasn't posted yet.

HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Abnegation
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Titus

pedit: I know you were town, I would've RVS voted Empathice who was scum but they are not here so I had to go for you

[DragonEater70]

In all seriousness, I'm actually looking forward to play with you and I think you have good reads (or at least good townreads) probably.

[DragonEater70]

First, I don't think this game qualifies as normal.

pedit: forgot about inventions being normal-restricted.
Second, last game there was an innocent child + cult, and if the IC was culted then they would reveal as cult instead of town when their power was activated.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: usesPython

i use c++, womp womp

HURT: usesPython

vote for your lim and your proposal is the way to go

No, no, no, you need to hurt 5 players for it to count.
HURT: bianco, Python, camelCase, Drew, Alianna

VOTE: camelCase
vote for your lim and your proposal is the way to go

VOTE: Bianco

[DragonEater70]

A player is confirmed if they are in a proposal that hits majority. In the event that nobody hits majority, the proposal with the most votes will be automatically accepted. In the event no proposal has any votes, or there is a tie, random.org will decide the Runners.

So we MUST support certain proposals rather than use slight variations? That's a bummer.

[DragonEater70]

HEAL: prior proposal

HURT: Ranger, usesPython, Doctor Drew, Save The Dragons, Abnegation, Aureal, Merlyn, camelCasedSnivy, Titus, biancospino

I feel kinda left out here.

[DragonEater70]

Wait why is Wheme at 3 votes when they haven't even posted yet?

[DragonEater70]

For D1 at least, is there any reason the nightmare SHOULDN'T include everyone?

HURT: All of the above (Korina please don't make me type it all out

Reposting since everyone seems to have ignored it

I mainly didn't understand what you meant by this post. Are you nominating the entire playerlist? Or only people who posted? Or?

[DragonEater70]

sheepsaysmeep

Um, would you like to contribute more to the game? Like, an opinion or a vote or something?

[DragonEater70]

Also is it really best to hurt everyone?

I only like hurting those I love.

My thinking is that in an ideal world we would have all Town and no scum in the nightmare, but since D1 reads are... not usually great... This way we can at least guarantee all of the Town gets in, AND we have more meaningful content to form reads going into D2.

Ok, I get that.

I want more people who were in the first game, and smarter to the mech side of things than me, to offer their opinion though.

I forget Rat, were you in the first game?

They were Botanical Rat together with Bianco, IIRC.

As a player of last game I can say that my gut instinct likes the idea of giving the 5-7 towniest people a PT to plan things without scum's knowledge (I mean last time we got 6 town and 1 third party in it, and it had a very town-favorable outcome), BUT usesPython has found a way to break the invention thingy so that it acts as a a global pseudo-cop (by gifting IC), and I don't see any way scum can play around it by being in the PT (except if they kill the IC target but then hopefully it's the scummiest player anyway, and then the scum nightkill becomes a town-controlled vigshot which ia nice).

So overall I can support either having 7 towniest or everyone being in it.

[DragonEater70]

I like Dragon again for taking the 5x run the nightmare vote on the first page seriously

VOTE: Aureal

Bianco playing not carefully is towny I think

Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

I like Dragon again for taking the 5x run the nightmare vote on the first page seriously

VOTE: Aureal

Bianco playing not carefully is towny I think

Ranger is automatically scum for putting STD at the bottom then switching him to the top when he asked nicely

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

First, please explain the Aureal vote, thank you very much.

Second, I completely disagree about Bianco. Their posting is just filled with random, thrown-out-in-the-open comments that serve absolutely no purpose, and a jokey (I guess) vote at a point where serious votes should be made. I read this as scum.

Also I don't believe you about not being a cult leader. Please cult me tonight.

[DragonEater70]

Using the vig as a second kill seems... too easy. There's almost certainly going to be something that prevents it if scum are aware of who the kill would be.

I agree but the way I see it, it would also be counter-town to vig with EVERYONE in the nightmare, since it will be basically an extremely rushed day phase, without any additional info except the flip. Without said I don't think we're gonna vig tonight, and I like the IC plan so I'm fine with HURT: everyone as long as we only IC really scummy people (otherwise we just tell scum to kill townie people and waste our power).

[DragonEater70]

Oh I think mod asked that it will be on a seperate line.

HURT: everyone

[DragonEater70]

i see the nightmare changed..... my first reaction is "Add everyone, use the vigilante as a second elimination" -- let me know if that is not achievable, I didn't read it all

Not sure there's an advantage to excluding people really

It's achievable but Activated IC/Bulletproof IC inventions are stronger

If we're handing out IC inventions then it's theoretically optimal to exclude scum so they don't get shot but getting a correct towncore of 7 people's probably impossible so yeah better to just put in everyone

It's not impossible, we had a towncore of 5 town and a third party last game.

[DragonEater70]

On a similar note, cult leader enabler feels too easy. I doubt it would work as effectively as we would hope. Or maybe it would and Korina didn't account for it? The vig definitely was likely accounted for in balance though.


NOTABLY
If cult have recruit as a factional ability that would side step enablers I believe.

I actually believe last time it was a factional ability? So yeah I would recommend against that.

[DragonEater70]

I will probably be more active tomorrow, but just poppin' in to say that I townlean Kyoko's entrance. While giving reads in itself is not necessarily town-indicative, their reads feel natural, rather than fake or sheepy.

[DragonEater70]

my guess is it's a joke

If you ask a scum mason if they're a scum mason they have to tell you, it's like the law

yeah exactly, i'm just a law-abiding scum mason.

Okay you can be town too. I guess scum just hasn't posted yet.

HURT: DragonEater
HURT: Python
HURT: Abnegation
HURT: Aureal
HURT: Titus

pedit: I know you were town, I would've RVS voted Empathice who was scum but they are not here so I had to go for you

Why did you hurt vote me here when I already said I wasn't a strong choice?

Your saying that made me tr you

[DragonEater70]

Wassup, I have some more time now so I'm gonna do a catchup.

Can we just policy the next person to keep talking about mech today?

I like this idea.

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

Also this one.
HURT: Python's suggestion

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

These posts kinda feel to me like scum!Rauther from Mini 2297 (AKA Conception). @Abnegation, Drew, Bianco, do you agree?
VOTE: Rauther
(but still FoSing Bianco)

I forgot this game exists oopsie daisey

IDK if it's actually scummy or am just annoyed, but I don't like this post (edit: nor the followup post with no content).

what would we get out of wagoning someone who is just gonna get prodded and replaced? (because they haven't posted)

I agree with this. If WhemeStar shows up, I'd be down to wagon though.

In the meantime, consider Rautherdir. You'll have to read the mech talk, but like. His contributions to the discussion have been focused around finding any excuse possible to not create Bulletproof ICs, in a manner beyond the expected concerns about legality.

In particular, I'd highlight the repeated suggestion of sacrificing not only Bulletproof but ANY useful modifier in favor of a day restriction that we know would be irrelevant when the ICs are just open to being shot anyway. That's not just a bad idea, it's a malicious one, especially when so many of his other suggestions are just ways to make a worse IC.

This push feels townie. So plus town points for Rat.

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

I notice a lot of talk about finding trustworthy people to put in the Nightmare. I would like to say that I am town, thus feel free to put me in there, coach(es).

I like your boldness. +town.

depressingly null then, maybe even slightly wolfy

the iso is fairly devoid of like original contribution, I just liked the confident tone lol

Agreed RE Abnegation.

also, rat and python are people who i will probably just throw in the townbin and not look back.

Who are your scumreads?

I don't get all the people saying it's town!dragon. Any links to read where he does this as town? In fact, 43 and 47 seems like a specific evolution of this trope to make him look towny. Not really a scumread but more of a at this point.

It's not "Dragon's talking in this game like town!Dragon normally does, therefore Dragon's town", it's "town!Dragon sounds LAMIST as hell normally so tone-reading him as scum off of that is a bad read"

Oh, really? I'm kinda sad to hear that because I try not to focus on looking towny, and focus on reads instead. But I guess it's not working

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

idk who said it feels like town!dragoneater from a previous game but I'll second the fact that this is just how he talks

think that was kirigiri, and i will third the fact that this is just how he talks.

Eater of Dragons, First of His Name, Breaker of Scum Reads......shall be town for now.

I normally try to avoid questioning people's townreads on me (okay, that's a lie), but I really wanna know something:
Do you actually tr me or are you just sheeping the other guys?

[DragonEater70]

ok I read the game

dragoneater70 - originally I found them the scummiest tonally. they felt very performative/LAMIST, such as with lots of literally saying "let's do something game-advancing now" (no one says that when doing something game-advancing now). but then someone said this felt like town!dragoneater from last game. and I sort of just believe that maybe that way of writing that I found scummy is playstyle. so now I no longer want to push it and it's a potential townread pending me one day skimming the game in question

ranger - I think they are lightly villagery. their first readlists aligned a lotttt with what I was feeling in early pages.

radical rat - I like their push that rauth is too obsessed with finding the IC alternatives. like it is a just a good push. it actually makes me feel more RR!town than rauth!wolf; im slightly skeptical of it as making rauth wolf because it's almost too egregious (python saying "I'll policy the next person to talk about mech" and then rauth keeps talking about mech feels like something wolves might want to avoid ??)

usespython - when I was just lurking they felt like 99% obvtown on vibes. when I read through it's more meh but still prob just town

morning tweet - gut says slightly scummy. I just thought her takes were mid in 150 I was not feeling them lol

Titus - if I had to force a read their vibe fits with what I understand of their town meta lol but meh

Kyoko - if this is their first time trying the weird scum meter thing (if I didnt misunderstand) then I'd honestly give a couple town points lmao. otherwise very meh

snivy - feels pretty wolf. in general their early posting was the most stiff. treatment of ranger feels like buddying ("wow you're doing readlists every post?! that's so game-advancing and towny" for something I think is fairly clearly predetermined playstyle).

abnegation - my gut says this is what I think newer-player villagers look like

I like the fact that you are SRing Morning Tweet for her takes - I agree they don't feel very thought out or townie. Also, she's lurking which I think is off her town meta (though I can't say for sure because she was third party last time we played).

ok he is being villagery VOTE: Abnegation

Please give us your thoughts on Abnegation.

[DragonEater70]

i think it means we can add a player to the nightmare even after the people in the initial proposal have been confirmed.

it took me that long to altslip?

I was also surprised

17 pages might be the longest i've made it.

Nah that's 16.

[DragonEater70]

HEAL: previous proposal

HURT: abnegation, aureal, radical rat, usespython, kyoko kirigiri, dragoneater70, ranger

basically python's proposal except titus didn't want in so i changed it. not sure about every name on this list but i'll go with it for now.

to be fair if we're trying to go for a full town nightmare then town!Titus not wanting in due to being V/LA doesn't actually matter since she'd just be there as a body to get enough people for the BP IC invention

^^

[DragonEater70]

python/bianco/(rauth maybe) is my scumread list

biggest townread is ranger for me, wonder what they think about 80% of these posts not advancing the game whatsoever

also waitwaitwait i can vote for multiple proposals at once? VC says I'm voting for bianco's proposal and my own

Why do you see Python as scummy? I think Python is the towniest player so far. Agree on Bianco and Rauth.

Python at the beginning didn't give me any reads, and then proceeded to go into that 8 page long discussion on inventions, while claiming they had reads. Rauth was a part of that too, but apparently its only scummy when they do it?? Unless there's something else to them than what I scumread them for

First, there's a difference in vibes/meta. usesPython is KNOWN for talking about mech, always. Look at their completed games, it's kinda crazy sometimes the mech talk they do. But in this specific game I get a villagery vibe from their posts, even if they are mostly about mech. And they are actually going somewhere with the mech and trying to figure things out, which is townie in my eyes.
On the other hand, Rauther's posts feel like they are talking about mech so they have something to talk about and are not lurking. This is scummy. You should be having plenty to talk about as town, you don't need to force yourself to talk (IMO).

Second point, usesPython has given reads? Maybe they didn't type them out but it's pretty clear who they SR and who they TR:

VOTE: WhemeStar

VOTE: Rautherdir

VOTE: WhemeStar

Serious Vote btw

I changed my mind, I want 7 townies in the Nightmare

HEAL: previous proposal
HURT: usesPython, Titus, DragonEater70, Radical Rat, Aureal, Kyoko Kirigiri, Abnegation

Abnegation I'm not sure about so that part's subject to change but the rest's in our townblock so good enough for now

[DragonEater70]

what about those posts specifically reminds you of it?

I actually forgot to quote the middle post as well, whoops. Lemmie just quote the whole thing and then I'll answer:

Honestly I can probably guess the answer to that question of mine though since it uh. Removes any balance concerns about if there is a strategy that works regardless of if people are doing town hunting or not. Best we can do with Inquiry to confirm alignments without any extra information (like validating a claim someone made), is a public gunsmith effectively, which... isn't especially useful.

I mean public gunsmith is useful, but I think a lot less then just. Trying to do a smaller nightmare and doing a different ability. Hmm.

HEAL: Radical Rat

The latter, if interfered with, also gives us some information about the players in the nightmare as well especially.

Basically, what reminds me of Conception is the fact that they are kinda rambling to themself about mech rather than actually engaging with other players? And second guessing themself?
Compare with Conception:

Spoiler: random rambling about what 'Bendediction' is

Green role color + an inherently non-antagonistic sounding name (Especially compared to Malediction) did not scream as being scum to me personally.

But then again I didn't notice the flavour on alignment thing in setup so. If I'd seen that I'd have gone with the assumption that they are indeed scum and waited til day 2 when more information from public night actions is available to present it as a possibility depending on what happened.

Well. I might have still done it actually.
This was a decent way to break out of RVS I think, and I like doing stuff like that.

.... Actually wait.

I just realized the pattern of the three faction names.

Benedictions and maledictions are both subsets of invocations. Respectively, invocations for blessings and curses. Each of the concepts are as removed from invocations in general as the other is, with invocations being neutral.

.... I'm not sure what significance this has if any.

At the very least this suggests Benediction and Malediction are antagonistic to each other I guess?

I should stop trying to use flavor to figure out things though cause I know it can't be used that way now.

Well, maybe flavor can still tell us about the setup and what the persuasions of the factions towards each other are, just not what any specific player is, on second glance.

Spoiler: Random rambling about their role

I will say my role name sounds much more powerful then the actual ability actually is. I'm actually not sure at all how to use my role to any benefit, though it is role madness so uh... maybe there's some use to even something like what I have?

I'm not even sure what my role would be called in a more conventional game. (And thus don't know where on the wiki to look for play advice for, if there even is an equivalent for it) Half tempted to claim just to ask for help in how to even use it properly. This was the first time I've ever not been able to reply to my role pm with the normal equivalent of my role through any combination of modifiers and roles.

Still tempted to claim so that I can get info on how to even use my role effectively. I probably shouldn't so that I can be one of the less critical roles to eat a night kill but. I can just try to be town to eat a night kill instead soooo actually let me just claim.

I am a manifestation of Confirmation. I have the option to target a player each night to check if my action was successful.

I have no idea how this is even useful, and not even sure what the role is even called normally if it is an actual defined role in the wiki. Closest I could find was Visitor, but none of the modifiers function in a way to make it work like that.

Ack, wish I'd known what it would have been called earlier. And this somehow counts as an investigative role. Which I guess it does reveal something, just... wow.
I guess I should still activate it on nights to get even that little bit of information, and I guess there are a few claims I would be able to check more safely then other investigatives based on the wiki.

This suggests there are role blocking abilities and/or modifiers though, so... there's that.

Maybe a rolestopper or ascetic I could still see, but... yeah. I mean I had no idea how to use my ability effectively anyways so uh... it was either claim to figure out how to even use my role or try and figure it out myself.

Well, the least I can do at this point is try and be helpful enough to town that I get shot for that reason.

And hey, I might still get roleblocked if someone wants to fake an ascetic claim.

This is true, and I spent a while (before game started even) debating if I should claim to get knowledge on how to use my role or not. I just had no idea how to play my role, I couldn't figure out what the equivalent role was on the wiki and was thus bereft of any play advice from there.

The information that there are almost certainly roles that prevent actions from working is I think more valuable then keeping my role hidden as well, in retrospect. Plus, I can try to be as helpful to town as possible in order to eat a night kill for that reason even if not a powerful role. (The trick of course, is doing that, which I might not have the best track record of.)

I can do stuff like check ascetic or vet claims at least. Or just... gather information in general about other actions in play maybe.

OH HEY something I can check.

... I mean you've already been confirmed to be Invocation so I'm not sure I need to check that, but. Still.

[DragonEater70]

Welp sorry I have to prod dodge, tomorrow you'll get some good content out of me hopefully since I will have more time, but a VERY quick and superficial look through pages 18-19-20 says my reads aren't that different and I still rank Rauther and Bianco as scummiest. Thanks, good night, cya tomorrow.

[DragonEater70]

Not seeking replacement for Flea or DE at this point because I’ve heard from both - giving them 24 hours before replacement due to deadline extensions and MS issues.

Thanks.

I'm really sorry for not being active earlier but I was kinda exhausted IRL the last few days and couldn't bring myself to read everything that happened. I'm not going to catch up on EVERYTHING, at least not for now, but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages. Also if there had been any claims etc. please direct me to find them.

[DragonEater70]

I'm not going to catch up on EVERYTHING, at least not for now, but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages.

Okay, I thought this is what's gonna happen, but now I found myself going earlier and earlier in an attempt to decipher the Ranger and Kyoko 1v1. This is going to take a while.

[DragonEater70]

I have a very strong gut scumread on DragonEater70.
This read has no objective reasoning, and even has some doubts to it. Others insist this is him as town, and the votes supporting the wagon are not promising.
Yet the gut read remains. I can't exactly make the gut read magically vanish. It's an inconvenience, yet it's there. I believe he's a good flip. I have no case beyond "trust my gutread", so I don't expect to realistically be followed. This won't stop me from continuing to call him scum, and continuing to provide reasons for my other scumreads.

Who do you think might be a good lim beside me?

Its more just a random vote dropped on a typical lhf regardless if he is town or scum.

This I can comment on.

I don't think DragonEater70 fits as low-hanging fruit. In my experience, he's a better player than that.

He's largely absent this game, which isn't ai imo. Still, he can get widely townread fairly easily when town and is far from an easy mislim. Were he actually an easy mislim, then a town player having a strong gut scumread on him, voting him, and dissuading players from voting a town mislim, would likely have gathered more support than it did.

I know this probably means less coming from me, but I do want to just say my own viewpoint:
IDK if I'm "limbait", I have only been mislimmed in one game out of the maybe 10 games I've completed (haven't counted), but I do think I am VERY easy to scumread. Like I think out of these 10 town games, there's been only two games where I wasn't HEAVILY scumread by various townplayers early on (and also later on). One of them being Weird Dreams I, and the other one being Team Mafia, where I was mislimmed anyway for pointing out that I wasn't being scumread as much as usual.
So I can understand where Kyoko is coming from, about saying that voting me is "low hanging fruit", even though I agree with Ranger that I am not usually a D1 lim.

HOWEVER, I do think Ranger was pretty townie later on (I'm gonna go back and find that post), so not voting there now.

[DragonEater70]

Now tell me is this analysis "easy", "digging unnecessary" or "anti town"?

It is easy, digging unnecessarily, and anti-town.

It's a meaningless nothingness push, and still contains the same logical flaws previously provided.

If I am scum, then you don't have an explanation for the signaling. One could exist, yet the burden is on you the accuser to bring forward evidence I did, because I've stated it was me having fun.

If I am a traitor, then it was blatant signaling, in a way you've consistently said you believe I'm not. If I were, it would imply Doctor Drew as scum, leaving him the focus, yet you didn't pursue him; you kept your focus on me.

If I am a 3p, then I would be a 3p who is somehow tied to Doctor Drew. If so, then Doctor Drew should still be the focus, yet you didn't pursue him.

If I am town, and I am, then the entire pursuit is pointless and meaningless. The goal of town is to eliminate all threats to them. Regardless of how "weird", regardless of how "strange", the alleged signaling is, if I am town (and I am), then focusing on the supposed signaling is

not furthering the town win condition

.

You've written a bunch of words to justify yourself. Yet none which address the fundamental issue with the push being you're not following it to any of its possible logical conclusions.

I've said I'm town.
I've said I've no information on Doctor Drew whatsoever, and he isn't in my role PM at all.
I've said my puns were me having fun.

You've been focused on this since getting into the game, yet given both my statements and the lack of following the points to the logical conclusion, your push provides no tangible benefit. It's a distraction. It gives something for you to easily appear to give effort to, because putting time into a nothingness point is easy.

You and me both know that no action or reaction in a mafia game is a town or scum tell on its own. everyone can fake anything or be real about anything at any time. Its about seeing the mind set that's behind those actions and reactions and to see if its used for solve or not.

Yeah, sure is. I've rather extensively laid out why I believe your mindset is scum trying to appear town.

Your stated reads are largely consensus reads. Your 'insights' into various topics are easy to give without actually providing a tangible benefit to the town. You're not following your pushes to their logical conclusions. You're demonstrating knowledge you shouldn't have. You're continuing to push the same narrative, despite posts from multiple users calling your reasoning out and pointing out the flaws within.

Subjectively, I know you're not furthering the town's wincon with your Ranger push, yet even objectively the flaws within demonstrate even not knowing my alignment, your push on me

just isn't good

. Also subjectively, I've seen the pushes you've made as town and I always understood why you made them, because there was logic being followed to an ultimate conclusion; here, that's absent.

I'd say that demonstrates your actions are more likely from scum.

Okay it was actually earlier. Anyhow I really like this post and although Ranger was mostly null until now, this posts single-handedly places her in medium-high tier townread. I mean it's just really townie. This is exactly the kind of posts scum just DON'T want to see posted in the game.

While I vehemently object to the argument of emulation as it looks like an excuse to deny meta

Let me clarify.

Every* scum player has at least some passing awareness of their play as town.
Every* scum player has at least some passing effort to mimic their townplay.
Every* scum player still has clear town/scum metas, despite the above. Because,
Every* scum player's efforts to mimic their townplay is imperfect, for varying reasons.

*not actually every; this is me simplifying to make a point clearer

My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is not

despite

meta.
My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is in part

because

of meta.

My point is Kyoko Kirigiri's trying to mimic her towngame. As this is an accusation, the burden of proving it's an imitation and not the real thing does lie on me.

I've provided why I believe it's the imitation and not the real thing. The consensus takes, along with not following logic to its natural conclusion, and making a push which provides no benefit to the town. Kyoko Kirigiri's content is one gigantic effort to appear town, yet is giving nothing demonstrating actual town thought.

Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).

[DragonEater70]

but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages.

You picked the worst 5 pages to catch up on lol.

For setup stuff Drew was forcibly placed into the nightmare by a day ability, Drew claims to have nothing to do with it, Ranger claims to be town, and Ranger does not have any information on Drew from her role PM

Thanks

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

That game just finished so can you talk more about this now?

That, by the way, was my first scumgame on this site and a nightmare.

Also I've replaced out due to lack of time and then thought it was a good idea to join another game and here I am, not having posted for several days due to the same luck of time I had before.

[DragonEater70]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

We can vote for 6, since DD is already in (and would count as one of the seven).

[DragonEater70]

Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).

Okay, I'm right now on this ISO (I got a bit derailed though), will post my conclusion and catch up from this post when I finish.

[DragonEater70]

Being honest, Doctor Drew is playing as he does when scum.

Were I unwilling to provide benefit of the doubt, he'd nearly top my scumreads.

I actually do believe him though; idk why. Gut I guess.

urghh

like... Ranger should be a lawyer. I don't think this is a traitor potential anymore, and this is just not town

UNVOTE:

if this is true I think this automatically make drew almost conf scum but I actually didn't see him do anything game-wise till this point beside calling ship turn there with a read so I need to do some iso dives when I'm done.

Just a question (still mid ISO): what is a lawyer? I couldn't find any 3rd party or town role called a lawyer, only scum, but they wouldn't have any reason to signal.

[DragonEater70]

(Also I admit to getting derailed again and reading stuff about Hong Kong when I was supposed to be ISOing Kyoko. Bad Dragon.)

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay I can see how Kyoko got that read, though for the life of me I can't understand why she would push it?

[DragonEater70]

Okay I tried to make a huge post with a lot of quotes of Kyoko but it looked monstrous so instead I'll just summarize my ISO and go back to having a life outside of this site:

- I initially liked the first few posts where she gives 0.1 and 0.3 townpoints etc. However on a second read, It feels off because it's not her town meta.
- I know it's silly, but I actually have an urge to scumread the fact that she's not roleplaying as a detective, like she did in her previous towngames on this account.
- I do agree with most of her reads, including the fact that initially the pun on Drew's name looked quite forced (I mean it still looks forced, but I don't think Ranger is scum for it). So I guess that's +town
- However, I did not like the fact that she said TWO SEPERATE TIMES that Rauther was scummy (which they were), but didn't vote or investigate him (which is very unlike her).
- I also like the fact that she went into a big 1v1 with Ranger and was really consistent with her reasoning.
- However I do not like the fact that I'm actually having a headache trying to understand what the hell she and Ranger are talking about half the time. It feels like they are both twisting each other's words. And they are posting huge wallposts and the entire point of each wallpost that either is posting is saying "oh but I already explained why I disagree with your wallpost" so I have to look earlier to see what they refer to and I can't find it in all the wallposts and it's honestly destroying my brain to bits.
So for now I agree with these two posts:

Can we just IC Ranger/Kyoko I'm feeling my will to play mafia drain with every wall that gets posted

-A

I'm checking out from this wall war

VOTE: Merlyn

Do something interesting

-A

I think we will have plenty of content from both Kyoko and Ranger later on to form reads off of.
However for the time being, Ranger is townie and Kyoko is slightly scummy for meta reasons, even though her posts are fucking amazing and honestly her reads are spot on.

[DragonEater70]

I'm going to be extremely busy now so hopefully I'll pop in this evening or sometime tomorrow to check out why people are (or were?) voting Merlyn, and catch up on the recent pages.

[DragonEater70]

Actually nvm.

@mod, please give me V/LA for until Thursday evening.

Bolded for visibility.
- θ

[DragonEater70]

(I will still try to pop in but it's definitely not something I can promise)

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for not being here for 6 out of the last 7 days or something, I should be fully back today with no more prods.
I just checked the latest VC, and a whole bunch of people I townread are voting for Merlyn, so time to find out what's up with that.
Will have a short read and then post some more.

[DragonEater70]

What do you think our scumcase on Wheme is? As a hint: You and DragonEater should have the easiest time figuring this case out

I'm intrigued.

It's lurking, right?

[DragonEater70]

I've read like 2.5 pages and a lot of quotes within quotes within quotes. So I don't necessarily have all the context, but here's where I'm at:

so i've finally figured out what i think about the

drew

puns and the nightmare placement, but it is unfortunately a very boring conclusion.
the puns are probably just puns. even if it looks like signaling, it's a reach to speculate that a very specific 3p role (or a scum traitor) both exists and would signal in such an obvious-looking way. the way it was done just seems like it was bound to get noticed by more people than just the intended target.
i still think drew being placed in the nightmare is +town for him. we've established it's most likely a scum ability, and i really don't think scum would be that desperate to get their partner in there that early, to the point that it would be worth drawing all that attention there. unless we're in multiball, in which case the solution is to read him off his play, and i read him as town right now so nothing changes. perhaps it was just done to sow conflict and suspicion, it did a pretty good job creating a bunch of (imo) useless arguing.
i am sympathetic to the idea that scum is letting the town eat itself. that could be a lot of people though.
still have no clue who to vote, but i liked this answer from ranger so i will probably just sheep it for the time being.

did you ever talk about that merlyn sr? if not, could you?

Sure. Merlyn is THE slot I'm talking about in exploiting Radical Rat. It doesn't display well in iso, yet most of her content is directly reflective of what RR's discussing at the time. Merlyn's given no content I've thought town, looks like scum, and has taken stances which I feel are taking advantage of town accusing town. Merlyn's contributions have been lackluster, and when the town's had its more lighthearted moments, Merlyn's contributions to them has felt forced. Both her hop onto Rauth as well as her hop off Rauth were suspect.

VOTE: merlyn

I like this post and it's quite towny. Also, I agree with Ranger's take and will probably vote Merlyn in my next post (after I make sure I don't accidentally hammer).

secondly about the way this post is written, I feel like the analyzing is clear and from a solving mindset but I just feel a tiny bit uneasy about the way you put things together that implies somewhat if ranger was only posting puns = ranger is town kinda vibe which is a logical fallacy. same also with your drew read. Like I agree with the solve that it might not best practice to focus there anymore and I'm actually feeling that vibe as well, but I just dont get to the conclusions you want me to reach with the assumptions that premises of that push were wrong (that the signaling and nightmare force were related). I just think at very best this puts both at null - which is were I had them both for mech reasons. and IMO ranger is a bit scummy individually regardless of that talk.

This doesn't feel like town mindset to me - it feels like Kyoko is simultaneously trying to agree with (to gain credit) and criticize (to form a future avenue of attack) Abnormality's (:D) post, instead of just posting their sincere thoughts. This is usually something that scum does.

Hey ranger why do you think tbis is my scum game

VOTE: Ranger

Real question but why do you consider scumreading you a scummy move?

[DragonEater70]

What do you think our scumcase on Wheme is? As a hint: You and DragonEater should have the easiest time figuring this case out

I'm intrigued.

It's lurking, right?

Lurking with cross-site activity (You were playing codenames)

Well all I can say is it's a lot easier to make a single post with a clue than to read like 10-20 pages of mafia and try to analyze what's going on. But, I do understand why it could look scummy.

[DragonEater70]

easier = less time consuming, at a period when I had very little time due to IRL reasons.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Merlyn

And now I gotta figure out what's with the new Wheme wagon. This is great.

[DragonEater70]

And I hate this Wheme push.

Can somebody explain it to me? Is everyone suddenly voting Wheme just because Ranger changed her vote? What's going on?

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for not being here for 6 out of the last 7 days or something, I should be fully back today with no more prods.
I just checked the latest VC, and a whole bunch of people I townread are voting for Merlyn, so time to find out what's up with that.
Will have a short read and then post some more.

Hi I'm the new Merlyn

Yoooo, master of Codenames.

Tell me, are you town or scum?

And a bit more seriously, did you read anything at all so far?

[DragonEater70]

Well I read the first ten pages and it was very boring

I mean you are not wrong. Too much mech.

[DragonEater70]

I've read 15 pages

I thought rat and sheep were towny

Any scumreads?

[DragonEater70]

Dragon town

Didn't we establish this already? :p

[DragonEater70]

nvm the nvm this feels pretty performative

Cool, I love being performative.

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

Oh, actually. We need to vote for at least four (because five is the minimum and Drew is already in) but I don't see why we can't do another proposal afterwards to add more people to get to seven. Since we seem to be struggling to get a consensus after the first few consensus townreads, it might be easier to work with that way- get more consensus people confirmed then scrap over the last couple.

I would rather have a 7-8 person proposal get passed through plurality rules just in case scum have a hammerer. Can we just pretend we passed a 5 person proposal without actually doing it?

Hmmm, not a bad point. Having pretend proposals sounds like all sorts of fun chaos. XD

How about if everyone makes a list sorting who they do/don't/maybe support to help figure out who's consensus/viable?

Yes: Radical Rat, Save the Dragons, usesPython, Abnegation, Titus, Kyoko Kirigiri, Aureal
Maybe: Dragoneater70, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Random Nurse, KatyKimFanclub, Flea the Magician, camelCasedSnivy
No: Ranger, Rautherdir, WhemeStar, Merlyn

Just saw this, first of all Aureal's posts on that page are soooo townie. Second, here's my list (that's sorta merged with a readlist) if anyone cares:

Definitely yes: usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, DragonEater70, Aureal, Abnegation
Possibly: KKFC, sheep, Titus?
Meh: StD (I never have reads on StD D1), Flea, Wheme (feels like limbait more than scum)
I still don't have a read on them: Snivy, MT, Titus? (I vaguely remember having a slight townread on her but I don't even remember why so I'll have to reread)
No: Rauth (I see this lost momentum as a wagon so will look into it later), Merlyn, Nurse, Kyoko (explained above)

[DragonEater70]

What do you mean?

[DragonEater70]

I found the way drew was really confidently like the wheme push is such bullshit to be slightlyyy scummy

like im not super confident on this but. I think at worst the wheme push could seem to someone like this is too random (but this is a game that's overall relatively towny). I think the "this is so bad" was unfair and weirdly extreme

I disagree, the Wheme push just came out of left field and over half of the votes don't give even a tiny bit of reasoning, and then basically pushing what is to me a null slot, this late into the day. It is a completely weird and untownie push. I mean I get shipping Ranger is a thing apparently, but like... Are you gonna sheep her on meta read without even checking said meta?
I haven't looked into Wheme's meta btw, but like c'mon they are not THAT scummy? I mean they are not townie this game but they are not scummy. (edit: I actually decided to look into their meta, and I can sorta see how they are less casual and lighthearted than they were on BooneyToonz, but I also feel like their playstyle is different from their most recent completed scum game I could find).

[DragonEater70]

I found the way drew was really confidently like the wheme push is such bullshit to be slightlyyy scummy

like im not super confident on this but. I think at worst the wheme push could seem to someone like this is too random (but this is a game that's overall relatively towny). I think the "this is so bad" was unfair and weirdly extreme

Actually I do agree with the second part of your post, it is a very towny game. But does that mean that saying "this is so bad" is unfair? actually brb I'm going to check who are the ppl who voted for Wheme when DD said that.

[DragonEater70]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Rauth

[DragonEater70]

Why though

Who else do you scumread besides Ranger? I think she's town

And idk haven’t rly formed scumreads rly I did some iso dives on rauth snivy and std but didn’t see anything that said scum

What's your verdict on rauth and snivy? I'm curious.

[DragonEater70]

I noticed early on that camelCasedSnivy seems to have trouble reassessing reads. His reads are awfully consistent. On page 33, his reads were here:

townies: merlyn, rat
probably town: ranger, kyoko, drew

maybe town: tweet
null: everyone else probably for a good reason or a bad reason
maybe scum: python, abnegation, std
scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

i can elaborate if someone wants but I think I made it clear

who is RR btw

and then look at the hurt votes from page 12

Spoiler:

i feel confident enough to make my own nightmare vote now

HURT: snivy, ranger, merlyn, drew, abnegation

in order from most to least towny of the 5

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.
We need 7 if you want an IC.

(I know, mech talk, but like. Obviously the number of people we should be voting is not something we can reasonably put off)

riiight totally did not forget that

HURT: snivy, ranger, merlyn, drew, abnegation, kyoko, rat

ik rat is a miller claim but they're still towny so cope

^^ Aside from Abnegation, the townreads were almost the same. Another thing was the persistence of his Python scumread. Python was hard pushing Rauth (more on this later). Snivy also had Rauth as his main push as of 754, but he also had Python as a holdover scumread from early game.... the justification for it in 933 (something about Python's Wheme push) feels pretty meh as well.

It feels a lot like what I tend to do as scum, where my reads are easier to track because I make sure to leave a paper trail so to speak.

---

Snivy's reads run contrary to the rest of the town, but his behavior doesn't align with his contrarian reads. He has Python, a near consensus townread, as a scumread basically throughout the game, but he doesn't seem to care that so many other people townread them. I don't detect any sense of urgency to lim the people he thinks could be scum. Rather, he seems to be very content to go with the flow, as evidence with his recent vote switching between Merlyn (my slot) and Wheme - the top two wagons atm.

Spoiler:

ok

VOTE: Wheme

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

We're talking Nightmare proposals not the lim

oh

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wheme

---

I'm gonna have to collect all my reads ig

Yea: {Rat, KKFC?, Random Nurse}
Kinda: {Merlyn, sheep, Kyoko, Ranger}
Maybe: {abne, drew, dragon, titus, tweet}
Prob Not: {Flea, Aureal, sheep?}
Nah: {StD, wheme, rauth}
Condemn: {snivy}

either way I'm just gonna sheep rat since ranger is probably the only person coming close to voting with me

This is more of a bonus more than anything, but this is a strange list. He has Random Nurse as top town, and in fact, Nurse is his 1st or 2nd top townread?

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Who's opposed to this?

[DragonEater70]

I noticed early on that camelCasedSnivy seems to have trouble reassessing reads. His reads are awfully consistent. On page 33, his reads were here:

townies: merlyn, rat
probably town: ranger, kyoko, drew

maybe town: tweet
null: everyone else probably for a good reason or a bad reason
maybe scum: python, abnegation, std
scum: bianco (or whoever they were being replaced by), aureal, rauth, snivy!!!

i can elaborate if someone wants but I think I made it clear

who is RR btw

and then look at the hurt votes from page 12

Spoiler:

i feel confident enough to make my own nightmare vote now

HURT: snivy, ranger, merlyn, drew, abnegation

in order from most to least towny of the 5

We need 7 if you want an IC.

(I know, mech talk, but like. Obviously the number of people we should be voting is not something we can reasonably put off)

riiight totally did not forget that

HURT: snivy, ranger, merlyn, drew, abnegation, kyoko, rat

ik rat is a miller claim but they're still towny so cope

^^ Aside from Abnegation, the townreads were almost the same. Another thing was the persistence of his Python scumread. Python was hard pushing Rauth (more on this later). Snivy also had Rauth as his main push as of 754, but he also had Python as a holdover scumread from early game.... the justification for it in 933 (something about Python's Wheme push) feels pretty meh as well.

It feels a lot like what I tend to do as scum, where my reads are easier to track because I make sure to leave a paper trail so to speak.

---

Snivy's reads run contrary to the rest of the town, but his behavior doesn't align with his contrarian reads. He has Python, a near consensus townread, as a scumread basically throughout the game, but he doesn't seem to care that so many other people townread them. I don't detect any sense of urgency to lim the people he thinks could be scum. Rather, he seems to be very content to go with the flow, as evidence with his recent vote switching between Merlyn (my slot) and Wheme - the top two wagons atm.

Spoiler:

ok

VOTE: Wheme

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

Well, so much for not splitting the vote prematurely.

smh fine

VOTE: Merlyn

We're talking Nightmare proposals not the lim

oh

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wheme

---

I'm gonna have to collect all my reads ig

Yea: {Rat, KKFC?, Random Nurse}
Kinda: {Merlyn, sheep, Kyoko, Ranger}
Maybe: {abne, drew, dragon, titus, tweet}
Prob Not: {Flea, Aureal, sheep?}
Nah: {StD, wheme, rauth}
Condemn: {snivy}

either way I'm just gonna sheep rat since ranger is probably the only person coming close to voting with me

This is more of a bonus more than anything, but this is a strange list. He has Random Nurse as top town, and in fact, Nurse is his 1st or 2nd top townread?

VOTE: camelCasedSnivy

Who's opposed to this?

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

Okay so the people who voted Wheme are Ranger, then StD, Abnegation, Rauther, and RR.
Personally I tr Ranger, Abnegation, and RR so I guess I can see where you are coming from, but I don't feel Rauther's vote for instance is towny, it just looks like scum going with the flow tbh.

...what time frame are you looking at here?

I distinctly remember voting Wheme (again) after Python did.

I was looking at when everyone sheeped Ranger and voted wheme. I think it was page 69?

[DragonEater70]

You make a compelling point, and I was actually just about to comment that I feel I have too few scumreads (Kyoko, Rauth, and maybe your slot but not really due to this post), so I'm gonna have a look at Snivy's ISO for myself but I think I agree with your evaluation overall.

EBWOP

Btw I tried to do an ISO on Snivy yesterday but it was very half-hearted since I was quite tired. However I did feel that their posts were just meh-town mostly (as in, not obvtown buy there's nothing to make them >rand scum).

Which means atm my current scumreads which are not just null are apparently not very polular lims for today, so I am unsure what to do next. Maybe tomorrow if I have more motivation I will have a more in depth look at all the people who I null read (and there are quite a few of them, actually). Or maybe I will make a more compelling scumcase against Kyoko or Rauth.
But for real, not feeling the current wagons at all.

[DragonEater70]

Sorry for the rambling, I had 4 hours of sleep and worked 10 hoirs today.

[DragonEater70]

I’ll see what I can do to address the more recent content about 12 hours from now.

A quick skim has my reads unaffected, although I’ll need the full read to confirm.

I maintain WhemeStar is very visibly and obviously in his scum meta, and can provide a better explanation for why when I engage.

Meanwhile, please trust me. Don’t abandon the WhemeStar wagon on a frivolous pursuit for a better D1 elimination. WhemeStar is still a

good

elimination.

Looking forward to your explanation.

[DragonEater70]

Oh no, better hurry up and make a case or people might not think you believe in your read!

Not sure if this was supposed to be offensive or jocular, but I mainly wanted to do the scumcase so we can create a wagon? Cause I want people to vote scum? As I said I really don't like any of the current leading wagons.

[DragonEater70]

Um.
I somehow missed the entirety of D2.

From looking at Korina's ISO I think I understand what happened, but lemmie do a quick catch up anyway.

[DragonEater70]

Wait I feel so confused. Radical Rat claimed mason and then scum killed the OTHER mason? How tf does that work?

[DragonEater70]

Anyhow, I think I spent enough time not playing this game due to being a numbskull that cannot manage his own time well, that I could be dubbed a "lurker" and I wouldn't even dispute it.
I think I need to become a whole lot more active. Let's go!

[DragonEater70]

also am I allowed to complain about not getting a night start PM for N2? Thanks so much. Done venting.

[DragonEater70]

Okay based on D3 play only I am thinking that Ircher is quite scummy. I will make a full case later on today, but for now you can have my vote.

VOTE: Ircher

[DragonEater70]

HURT: usesPython, Ranger, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Radical Rat DragonEater70, Abnegation

replace dragon and abne with 2 other people (preferably me but aureal's kindness was a LITERAL scum move)

Also why exactly do you scumread Avalanche?

[DragonEater70]

I mean, everyone else in that list could make the same argument. Except usesPython given we're pretty sure they were the night kill target that first night.


... ACTUALLY. We're still missing whoever force put Drew into the Nightmare. Is there any overlap between people who were active then and people who were in Kirigiri's list? (I ask because I am too occupied to look myself right now...)

This is an EXCELLENT question that I will be looking into immediately

So the person who put them in the nightmare did not claim it inside the nightmare? Interesting...
I tend to agree it might've been scum after all.

[DragonEater70]

HURT: usesPython, Ranger, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Radical Rat DragonEater70, Abnegation

replace dragon and abne with 2 other people (preferably me but aureal's kindness was a LITERAL scum move)

Also why exactly do you scumread Avalanche?

HURT: usesPython, Ranger, Morning Tweet, sheepsaysmeep, Radical Rat DragonEater70, Abnegation

replace dragon and abne with 2 other people (preferably me but aureal's kindness was a LITERAL scum move)

Aureal was Town???

kyoko not aureal omg I'm a dumbass

He said to remove Abnegation, not Aureal.

[DragonEater70]

Okay based on D3 play only I am thinking that Ircher is quite scummy. I will make a full case later on today, but for now you can have my vote.

VOTE: Ircher

Welp I have a few minutes.
And actually I don't have much of a case against Irchet, it's just vibes.

Based off 1552 there's scum in Abnegation/StD/Snivy

VOTE: StD

I'm not sure I follow. What makes you think that?

Like idk why but this doesn't feel in good faith.

It's possible, but it's a weird risk to take.

Is being in the nightmare really that much of an advantage?

VOTE: Ircher

Is this OMGUS, or is there an actual reason you're voting me here?

And neither do these.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Ircher
Statement vote. I

'll vote within the Abnegation/StD/Snivy group

when it's less likely to end the day.

Why?

[DragonEater70]

Based off 1552 there's scum in Abnegation/StD/Snivy

VOTE: StD

Seems like a good idea to not have these people in the nightmare until one of them flips scum

Oh okay that makes sense. Will read StD's ISO later, still townreading Abnegation (very much) and snivy (a bit).

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Ircher
Statement vote. I

'll vote within the Abnegation/StD/Snivy group

when it's less likely to end the day.

Why?

Just to confirm, you've read 2678 right?

Now I have.

[DragonEater70]

Nightmare wise for conftown we have:

• Ranger
  
• Radical Rat
  
• usesPython

Wait, are you and Ranger confirmed town mechanically or otherwise? What did I miss?

I mean I do townread both of you but why conftown?

[DragonEater70]

Nightmare wise for conftown we have:

• Ranger
  
• Radical Rat
  
• usesPython

Wait, are you and Ranger confirmed town mechanically or otherwise? What did I miss?

I mean I do townread both of you but why conftown?

I'll let Ranger decide if she wants to reveal why she's conftown but Drews N1 Nightmare posting heavily softed that he was on us so we're conftown because Titus tried to shoot us

Ohhh gotcha. That does make sense, since tbh either you or Ranger would the most obvious choice for scum nightkill, I think? Especially since Kyoko WAS scum.


HURT: Python, Ranger, Rat, Abnegation, DragonEater

[DragonEater70]

Okay so I read StD's ISO, and I'm surprisingly vibereading them as town. Surprisingly because usually I read their towngame as scum. But in any case I also like these 2 posts, and I don't think they come from scum unless StD and Rauth are partnered (which I just realized IS possible with the number of scum in the game. Um.)

I'm confused why people think scum!rauthe would do whatever rauthe did to make himself look scummy

I think people said why rauthe is scummy but not why scum!rauthe does what he did

Anyhow I still townread StD off of this, though he does have some partner equity with Rauth.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Morning tweet

Honestly forgot MT was in the game, I think I need to look at their ISO sometime today.

[DragonEater70]

I hate it when I constantly check my egosearch and there are no new posts.

[DragonEater70]

{Radical Rat}
{usesPython}
{Rautherdir}
{DragonEater70}
{KatyKimFanClub}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{camelCasedSnivy}
{Flea The Magician}
{Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet}
{Abnegation}
{Ircher}

Current reads. Should be noted usesPython's effectively on the RR tier, and is only on a technicality lower. RR's confirmed mason, usesPython's only suspected-N1-kill. With

very

compelling evidence, yet technically unconfirmed.

Ah, steadily going up in ranking on Ranger's ladder is quite nostalgic.

[DragonEater70]

Oh damn I have 150 posts to catch up on I think?

[DragonEater70]

Rip.

What was your read on StD before the reread?

Null

[DragonEater70]

Oh damn I have 150 posts to catch up on I think?

We did a massclaim, can you claim?

Gimmie 5 minutes

[DragonEater70]

I'm RR's Mason partner. Specifically a mason detective. N1 Kyoko didn't use a kill, N2 I did not submit an action

[DragonEater70]

interesting you get the same vibes. i don't think there's anything wrong with 2681 though?

I don't know how to explain it. The first time I read it, it pinged me the wrong way. On second time not so much, but I am trusting my gut here.

[DragonEater70]

two town Traffic Analysts w/ Neighborizer + a trio of Masons makes me confident we are dealing with a cult

Honestly is there someone in this game that DOESN'T have PT access?

[DragonEater70]

I have not successfully sent any because of kkfc role but I also told him I dont care because it seems useless

Wait, how does this make sense if KKFC was apparently roleblocked on N1?

[DragonEater70]

Oh damn I have 150 posts to catch up on I think?

rookie numbers

Agreed, but I normally find myself completely out of motivation to play when there's like 20+ pages to catch up on.

[DragonEater70]

kkfc was roleblocked? when? by who?

nvm I missed this:

We know that all information in role PMs are guaranteed to be accurate, so I can confidently say that I am not like some unintentional cult, which I was actually super paranoid about for a while.

That being said, the fact we had two town Traffic Analysts w/ Neighborizer + a trio of Masons makes me confident we are dealing with a cult, unless my role is supposed to be bad for town?

Can we get a list of people you've targeted so far? The Neighborhood isn't that important since we can't guarantee the alignment of the people in it

Sure,
N1: sheepsaysmeep
N2: sheepsaysmeep

did it not go through n1?

It went through N1. I re-neighborized to protect sheep last night.

[DragonEater70]

And I saw KKFC talking about a roleblocker so I thought the reason for the double action on sheep was a roleblock.

[DragonEater70]

What if Abnegation was in Kirigiri's proposal cause she thought Abne was Traitor

That... would make a lot of sense.

[DragonEater70]

I'll neighborize Radical Rat tonight unless something serious changes in the remaining claims or something mechanical comes up.

I don't think you should say which one you are neighborizing. This way you also throw in a WIFOM element to the nightkill, I think? We want all of us alive for as long as possible. And hopefully Ranger protects me so I get an investigation in.

[DragonEater70]

Disclaimer: I have not had enough sleep tonight. Any and all posts I make today might be illogical as a result. I might also miss important details.

[DragonEater70]

Okay, so I'm a three-shot Alarmist.

I hadn't read anything N1, so I just randomly picked Morning Tweet.

N2 I targeted Radical Rat.

Just to make sure, your role counters alignment changing actions? Or something else? Because this seems to imply that KKFC is lying.

[DragonEater70]

Well reverse as in I'm dead. It's still a seance during the night

Am I right in assuming your role is identical to the one StD had last game?

[DragonEater70]

Inquiry goated perhaps?

What does goated mean?
/genq

(I can't believe I am using a tone indicator)

[DragonEater70]

And what does that mean in the context? Like one-shot?

Pedit: this is directed at Python's post.

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Ircher
I believe this power to be scum (if beneficial to town, it is immensely more useful in a non-cult scum's hands to keep key town players from getting culted without overlapping on scum already immune to culting)

Why would you want to prevent key townies from being culted as scum? Aren't you going to kill them all the same?

[DragonEater70]

Oh I missed quite a few pages

[DragonEater70]

Mafia Alarmist makes literally no sense when groupscum are ALREADY immune. So even if they have one, they won't use it on themselves, and if they use it on Town that's... good for us, regardless of who's doing it?

Yeah exactly

[DragonEater70]

UNVOTE: Ircher

Kinda wanna flip Rauth here tbh

Kinda agree tbh

However I also wanna flip KKFC because a thought occured to me that if they ARE cult or even part of the cult, they can cult the masons and the "check" wouldn't do a thing.

[DragonEater70]

Sure but we're talking about the last game which had a Normal Cop that was called a Bloodhound and using that to conclude that it's possible KKFC is a Normal Alien that's called a Marshall

No, the cop was this:

Spoiler: TemporalLich

Biblically Accurate Angel

Strange Dreams Mafia

Welcome, TemporalLich! You are a

Biblically Accurate Angel (Town JOAT)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams.

I had a dream once that BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID BE NOT AFRAID.

Your personal abilities are as follows:
~

Defaults

: You have your voice, and your vote. You may use both of these to try to kill whoever you think is not aligned with you.
~

JOAT

: You have access to several 1-Shot abilities, which are listed below.
~

1-Shot Doctor

: Once per game, you may target someone to protect them against one kill that night.
~

1-Shot Cop

: Once per game, you may target someone to learn if they are a "Horrible Dream" or "Not a Horrible Dream".
~

1-Shot PGO

: Once per game, you may kill all players who target you tonight.
~

1-Shot Roleblocker

: Once per game, you may prevent another player from taking any actions tonight.

You win if

all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead, and at least one member of your faction is still alive.

Please confirm you have read this PM by submitting your flavor back to me.

Bloodhound was different.

In any case I don't see how all this matters, can't a cult leader also be an alien?

[DragonEater70]

However I also wanna flip KKFC because a thought occurred to me that if they ARE cult or even part of the cult, they can cult the masons and the "check" wouldn't do a thing.

Isn't this logic true for literally any non-Mason role in this game? All of the investigates can be faked because you can just ask your culted target for a result.

It is, and I once almost won a game (off site) as a cult leader like this (asked my cultee to fake a guilty on the cop who guiltied me, unfortunately scum were successful in persuading the remaining town to vote me). I don't know of any objective way for a person to confirm themselves as non-CL without either flipping someone who vouched for them, or having like 3 investigatives vouch for them on D3 (when they could've only culted 2). That's part of the big problems with cults.

[DragonEater70]

Huh interesting, didn't see that. Our point was more about the non-standard name for Alien being possible

Yeah I guess it is a possibility.

[DragonEater70]

I mean my role doesn't say "bomb" either.

[DragonEater70]

Oh.

[DragonEater70]

Just ignore that post please.

[DragonEater70]

We should get the nightmare sorted out before we hammer btw

Does this mean I'm getting elimmed regardless of what I say at this point? Or are we still deciding who to kill from the PoE?

If you are town and you have a better idea for a lim, go ahead and suggest it.

[DragonEater70]

Oh was that a hammer on ircher a long time ago? Oopsie.

[DragonEater70]

Also since no one has claimed to be Rangers opponent it's possible she's fighting scum. Can we ask the people with a chess elo higher than 500 to play a game with us?

Spoiler:

1. e4

Gladly, but I have no clue how to play chess on this site.

[DragonEater70]

Oh was that a hammer on ircher a long time ago? Oopsie.

E-1, not hammer

Oh okay. I would hammer but pretty sure I'm already voting there.

[DragonEater70]

Also since no one has claimed to be Rangers opponent it's possible she's fighting scum. Can we ask the people with a chess elo higher than 500 to play a game with us?

Spoiler:

1. e4

Gladly, but I have no clue how to play chess on this site.

We're assuming that conftown would admit to playing chess this game so no need

Awww but I like playing chess

[DragonEater70]

I just want to complain that I am deeply annoyed about getting into a 1v1 with KKFC about which one was CL when neither of us was cult. I'm pretty sure I'm the last scum here and I guess I fucked up by using my inquiry ability? I didn't think it would go through as no result, oops.

@Mod: I concede.

[DragonEater70]

@Mod: I concede.

[DragonEater70]

Also wait don't you have a traitor as well?

That's part of why I'm conceding. The game is much more townsided than any of you expected.

[DragonEater70]

.... Guh you might have been able to win that if it's what I think it is.

Feel free to explain in the postgame, but you literally announced your intent to shoot me tonight and I'm

almost

the only person who's not mechanically cleared.

[DragonEater70]

At least I correctly figured out the cult leader though. So I at least get that mark.

I'm actually impressed, good job.

[DragonEater70]

Probably, but I'd have liked to see him try.

Don't play with your prey.

[DragonEater70]

Probably, but I'd have liked to see him try.

Don't play with your prey.

It's not about that. I didn't mean to be deliberately taunting you.

I had a degree of reasonable doubt, and while it's incredibly unlikely you'd have gotten away with it, games are more fun when played through to the end. At least for me.

I don't necessarily blame you for conceding, I just wish you hadn't is all.

Okay fine.
Just so you know, once Ircher flipped I knew I was screwed due to too many mechanical clears. Then the cult died and I realized thst just POE killing is enough for me to die before ELo.

[DragonEater70]

I wasn't expecting the game to actually end today though, I thought you were group scum and we'd still have a traitor to find. So I'm worried it actually isn't over for town and we have a third party to find still... If not then uh. This feels a little too town sided? Guess I'll have to see the full setup later.

I think it's definitely Townsided overall, but there was a lot of room for scum to shenanigan.

Oh yeah, there definitely was.
My initial plan before Alianna claimed the Backrooms thing was that you confirm us as masons and then we shoot you and coast to the endgame.

[DragonEater70]

And I do feel town was pretty lucky with a scum death and a mechanical guilty by end of N1. If not for that I think the shenanigans could go quite well.

[DragonEater70]

i should have just claimed some sort of a clear on you. would have been way less complicated. but i already claimed to masonry so i couldn't really alter anything about my own claim.

Yeah good point, it was my own plan that was too complicated.

[DragonEater70]

Actually the guilty wasn't luck, it was the setup bwing broken.

[DragonEater70]

I'd have probably bought a claim you rolecopped him as some obviously Townie thing, but there was no way I was gonna let the fake mason thing last longer than that day, even without Backrooms shenanigans afoot.

Fair enough. We executed that mason claim plan prematurely due to stress about the massclaim. If we had more time we would've definitely done it a lot differently.

[DragonEater70]

Actually the guilty wasn't luck, it was the setup bwing broken.

It was our only instant mechanical guilty and even if it hit town Snivy could have recruited there

Okay true

[DragonEater70]

So maybe that one is luck.

But still a potential 4 person masonry would be crazy strong.

[DragonEater70]

(I might've lied about one or two things.)

In about 8 hours, I can compile the full list.

The scum conceding got in the way of me having fun.

Everything I claimed except being Unique was a lie.

There was no IC, doctor, or chess game. I made it all up.

I did have a day action though!

It did feel like a lie tbh but I knew you weren't scum so I had no choice but to accept it.

[DragonEater70]

GG everyone!
Sorry for cutting your enjoyment short but I knew with certainty I was the last scum, and there were too many clears for me and Abnegation to succeed.

[DragonEater70]

(I might've lied about one or two things.)

In about 8 hours, I can compile the full list.

The scum conceding got in the way of me having fun.

Everything I claimed except being Unique was a lie.

There was no IC, doctor, or chess game. I made it all up.

I did have a day action though!

Also why did you lie?

[DragonEater70]

No redactions btw.

[DragonEater70]

I find it pretty funny that DE conceded due to POE when half of the "conftown" were lying

Yeah it is pretty funny

[DragonEater70]

ALSO

One thing I am proud of:

Before the whole messed up massclaim thing happened, I apparently reached high tier townread on Ranger's readlist after I was the bottom tier for several pages of D1. I think this was an achievement in itself because I was terrified of being the D1 lim due to a gutfeel.

[DragonEater70]

I should probably look into this but was Abne TRing Titus/Kirigiri during d1?

Jesus Christ Abnegation reads hella Traitor with her d1 posting

what would be really funny is if the mafia or the masons could recruit the wrong traitor by mistake, but that would break the game lol.

YOUUUUUUU

Yeah I saw that and it made it click right away that she was a double traitor. I couldn't pin down the exact mechanics because Rat apparently thought it would be funny to go along with her and spend the week gaslighting me, their own damn teammate, even it's obviously a terrible idea to let some random person fakeclaim mason.

So I spent the entire damn week screaming both internally and to the apathetic dead thread, trying to work out exactly how Abnegation and Rat had been recruited to a scum team. Trying to figure just how bastardly the setup had to be for the mod to lie and say scum wouldn't be in a masonry when obviously they were, which maybe meant they were culted by DE70 but wouldn't explain why I got killed.

My best guess as far as game balance went was that Abnegation didn't know she was double traitor at first until a mason died, at which point if recruited by both Mafia and mason she corrupted the remaining mason and they both joined the Mafia. And it was just a huge coincidence that she was doing all that traitor signaling to Mafia that you saw and that I died despite there being no reason for me to be targeted.

So my best guess for what was actually going on was that she was Mafia aligned the whole time, and the mod was being quite bastard with the setup and denying it. A bastard game being bastard made more sense than Rat apparently deciding to potentially game throw by allowing a fake mason claim for the lulz.

I was on vacation last week

THIS REALLY MESSED ME UP

Well it WAS fun to fakeclaim mason, let me tell you that.

[DragonEater70]

CSF was a Universal Backup, and inherited Traffic Analyst from WhemeStar

That explained it, having 2 traffic analysts was weird asf.

Also half the players having PTs or messenger abilities was something else...

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: rand img

---

Spoiler: camelCasedSnivy

Liminal Oddity

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that within the liminality of my dreams, there existed yet another one. An oddity. Ever-shifting, ever-changing, it would constantly seek what it had once lost, hoping to reunite with what made it complete.

Welcome

camelCasedSnivy

! You are a

Liminal Oddity (2-Shot Strongman/Strongwilled, 3-Shot BP OR Investigation Immune + True Alignment Cop 2-Shot Mentor)

, and aligned with

The Liminal Space

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Unique

: Your role is Unique, and cannot appear again in this game under any circumstances.
~

Choiced Role

: You are given the choice of 2-Shot Strongman/Strongwilled and 3-Shot BP Or Investigation Immunity + True Alignment Cop
~ If you pick Strongman/Strongwilled + BP, you will decide when you use your Strongman/Strongwilled shot, and will decide if you are using Strongman or Strongwilled each time. You cannot use both charges at once.
~ If you choose Investigation Immunity + True Alignment Cop, you will always return an innocent result to all investigates, and your alignment cop will show the

true

alignment of any player, ignoring any effects like Millers/Godfathers, Framers/Tailors, or any redirections. This will not prevent you from being roleblocked, however.
~

2-Shot Mentor

: Twice per game if you have no living mentee, you may attempt to recruit another player to

The Liminal Space

. If successful, they will retain all abilities they once had.

Factional Information

:
~

Conditional Kill

: If you have a living Mentee, one of you may perform the factional kill each night.
~

Private Communication

: You have access to White Space, your factional PT, which is located here. You may post there at any time, provided you are still alive.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

Liminal Space

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent.

Spoiler: Sample Mentee PM

Sample Mentee

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that the strange little oddity had finally found me, and made me join it. Together, we stood stronger, more powerful than either one of us could on our own.

Welcome

Korina

! You are now a

Sample Mentee (Sample Mentee)

, and now aligned with

The Liminal Space

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Example Retained Ability

: Lorem Ipsum Dolar Amet Sit
~

Mentee

: If

[Mentor Name]

ever dies, you will die as well.

Factional Information

:
~

Conditional Kill

: As long as you are alive, either you or

[Mentor Name]

may perform the factional kill each night.
~

Private Communication

: You have access to White Space, your factional PT, which is located here. You may post there at any time, provided you are still alive.
~

Factional Identities

: You know that

[Mentor Name]

is a

Liminal Oddity (Mentor's Picked Role Goes Here)

.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

Liminal Space

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent.

---

Spoiler: Titus

Sunlight Actress

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that there was a renowned actress who only could put on her performance in the daylight. Anyone who watched it would be mesmerized by it, and she kept using that to her advantage. I always wondered why she would do it.

Welcome

Titus

! You are a

Sunlight Actress (Mafia JOAT)

, and aligned with

The Horrible Dreams

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Jack of all Trades

: You have access to several limited-shot abilities, they are listed below.
~

Hypnotist (2-Shot)

: Twice per game, you may send a player feedback from any action, provided it does not contain a name. For example, you may give a player feedback that nobody visited their target last night, but you may not give them feedback that they saw their target visited [name] last night.
~

Day Traitor Cop (1-Shot)

: Once per game, during the day, you may learn if a player is a Traitor. Feedback from this action will be given to you at the start of the night.
~

Secret Voter (1-Shot)

: Once per game, during the day, you may secretly place an additional vote on another player by PMing the mod. This vote cannot be changed once placed, and will not work in ELO situations. This vote shows up as "Korina" on VCs.
~

Strongwilled Announcing Jailkeeper (2-Shot)

: Twice per game, you may jailkeep another player, protecting them from all kills tonight, and roleblocking them. This action cannot be redirected, nor roleblocked. Players will be told a Strongwilled Jailkeeper targeted them last night as well.

Factional Information

:
~

Factional Kill

: You, or any other living

Horrible Dreams

with access to The Abyss may perform the factional kill each night, alongside any personal abilities.
~

Private Communication

: You have access to The Abyss, your factional PT, which is located here. You may post there at any time, provided you are still alive.
~

Factional Identities

: Your allies are:

biancospino

and

Kyoko Kirigiri

.
~

Traitor

: You know there is a

Nightmare Traitor

in the game. They know your name, but not your role. If you attempt to kill the Traitor, they will join the PT instead of dying.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Horrible Dreams

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent.

Spoiler: biancospino PM

Dark Miasma

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that there was a dark mist in the corner of my room. My oldest bedroom that still spooks me to this day. It did absolutely nothing but would scream at me if I got too close, or threw anything at it. And if I threw something at it? It'd simply deflect it.

Welcome

biancospino

! You are a

Dark Miasma (Mafia Passively Contingent Random Redirector)

, and aligned with

The Horrible Dreams

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Unique

: Your role is Unique, and cannot appear again in this game under any circumstances.
~

Passive Contingent Random Redirector

: Provided no players not aligned with

The Good Dreams

have died, you will automatically redirect any actions targeted at you to a different player. The target player will be randomly selected from all living players.
~

Backup Contingency

: Once a player not aligned with

The Good Dreams

dies, you will become a 1-Shot Bus Driver instead.

Factional Information

:
~

Factional Kill

: You, or any other living

Horrible Dreams

with access to The Abyss may perform the factional kill each night, alongside any personal abilities.
~

Private Communication

: You have access to The Abyss, your factional PT, which is located here. You may post there at any time, provided you are still alive.
~

Factional Identities

: Your allies are:

Titus

and

Kyoko Kirigiri

.
~

Traitor

: You know there is a

Nightmare Traitor

in the game. They know your name, but not your role. If you attempt to kill the Traitor, they will join the PT instead of dying.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Horrible Dreams

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent.

Spoiler: Kyoko Kirigiri PM

Grand Ole One

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was in the Squid Games, but there was just one random computer in it who grew stronger the less people there were. I kept having to fight it, and only kept narrowly winning each time, and when it finally beat me, I woke up.

Welcome

Kyoko Kirigiri

! You are the

The Grand Ole One (Mafia Ninja Watcher)

, and aligned with

The Horrible Dreams

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Ninja Watcher

: Each night, you may target another player and learn who visited that player. You will not appear to visit your target to any roles like Trackers or Watchers.
~

The Last, Best Hope

: If you are the last non-Traitor Horrible Dream alive, you will gain the following ability: 2-Shot Strongman Janitor.
~

2-Shot Strongman Janitor

: Twice per game, when killing another player, you may decide to use this ability. If you do so, your target will die regardless if they are being protected, and regardless if you are roleblocked. Your target will flip as

[REDACTED]

, and you alone will learn your target's Role PM.

Factional Information

:
~

Factional Kill

: You, or any other living

Horrible Dreams

with access to The Abyss may perform the factional kill each night, alongside any personal abilities.
~

Private Communication

: You have access to The Abyss, your factional PT, which is located here. You may post there at any time, provided you are still alive.
~

Factional Identities

: Your allies are:

Titus

and

biancospino

.
~

Traitor

: You know there is a

Nightmare Traitor

in the game. They know your name, but not your role. If you attempt to kill the Traitor, they will join the PT instead of dying.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Horrible Dreams

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent.

---

Spoiler: DragonEater70 PM

Nightmare Traitor

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was watching the Voidfiends and Nightmares again. This time, there were four of them, or so I thought. One of them had defected, and fallen in love with their mortal enemies, and secretly vowed that if possible, the two of them would destroy the rest of the Voidfiends and Nightmares, and those who would stand with them... but I think I saw the slightest hint of remorse in the two traitors.

Welcome

DragonEater70

! You are a

Nightmare Traitor (Mafia Lover Role Public Prophet Traitor)

, and aligned with

The Horrible Dreams

.

Innate Abilities:

~

Public Role Prophet

: Each night, you may target another player and ask the mod a question about how their role. You cannot ask questions that pertain to alignment, such as "What is X's alignment" or "How does X win the game", or "Can X change the alignment of another player?". The feedback from this action will be publicly posted, but you will decide if the feedback is correct, or inverted.

Lover Information

:
~

Lover

: You are lovers with

Abnegation

, and will die if they die.
~

Lover PT

: You have access to Purgatory, the Lovers PT, which you can find here.
~

Lover's Wrath

: Twice per game, you or your lover may attempt to kill another player in the game.
~

Finality

: If you and your lover are the only players left alive, or it is impossible to prevent this from occurring, the two of you will automatically win the game. This is redacted upon your death.

Factional Information

:
~

Traitor

: Your allies are:

Titus

,

biancospino

, and

Kyoko Kirigiri

. You know their names, but not their abilities.
~

Recruitment

: If any of the above players attempt to kill you, you will instead gain access to The Abyss, the factional PT, alongside the factional kill.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Horrible Dreams

are dead and your faction is at least half the living players, or if this situation is impossible to prevent. Alternatively, you win if you and your lover are the only players left alive, or it is impossible to prevent the two of you from being the last players alive.

Spoiler: Abnegation PM

Voidfiend Traitor

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was watching the Voidfiends and Nightmares again. This time, there were four of them, or so I thought. One of them had defected, and fallen in love with their mortal enemies, and secretly vowed that if possible, the two of them would destroy the rest of the Voidfiends and Nightmares, and those who would stand with them... but I think I saw the slightest hint of remorse in the two traitors.

Welcome

Abnegation

! You are a

Voidfiend Traitor (Town Lover 2-Shot Role Cop Mason Traitor)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities:

~

2-Shot Role Cop

: Twice per game, you may learn another player's role name, but not their abilities. For example, you will return the name "Voidfiend Traitor" if you checked yourself, but not "Town Lover 2-Shot Role Cop Mason Traitor."

Lover Information

:
~

Lover

: You are lovers with

DragonEater70

, and will die if they die.
~

Lover PT

: You have access to Purgatory, the Lovers PT, which you can find here.
~

Lover's Wrath

: Twice per game, you or your lover may attempt to kill another player in the game.
~

Finality

: If you and your lover are the only players left alive, or it is impossible to prevent this from occurring, the two of you will automatically win the game. This is redacted upon your death.

Masonry Information

:
~

Traitor

: The masons are:

Aureal

and

Radical Rat

. You know their names, but not their abilities.
~

Recruitment

: The Masons have a 2-Shot Traitor Recruitment. If they target you with it, you will automatically gain access to the Masonry.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive. Alternatively, you win if you and your lover are the only players left alive, or it is impossible to prevent the two of you from being the last players alive.

---

Spoiler: Aureal PM

Voidfiend Doctor

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was back with the Voidfiends, shattered because one of them had defected from the group. Lost, they both attempted to find their lost friend again and reunite the triad they once had.

Welcome

Aurel

! You are a

Voidfiend Doctor (Town 2-Shot Doctor Mason)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

2-Shot Doctor

: Twice per game, you may protect another player from one kill tonight. You cannot target

Radical Rat

with this ability.

Masonry Abilities

:
~

1-Shot Day Traitor Cop

: Once per game, during the day, you or your partner may target another player and learn if they are a traitor. You will be given the result at the start of the night.
~

2-Shot Traitor Recruitment

: Twice per game, you may target another player and attempt to recall them to the Masonry if they are a traitor. If successful, they will gain access to The Fortress at the start of the day.

Masonry Information

:
~

Masonry

: You have access to The Fortress, the Mason PT, located here, where you may talk at any time provided you are still alive.
~

Mason Friend

: You know

Radical Rat

is aligned with

The Good Dreams

and is also a Mason.
~

Traitor

: You know there is a

Voidfiend Traitor

in the game. They know your name, but not your role.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Radical Rat PM

Voidfiend Vigilante

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was back with the Voidfiends, shattered because one of them had defected from the group. Lost, they both attempted to find their lost friend again and reunite the triad they once had.

Welcome

Radical Rat

! You are a

Voidfiend Vigilante (Town 1-Shot Vigilante Mason)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

1-Shot Vigilante

: Once per game, you may attempt to kill another player in the game.

Masonry Abilities

:
~

1-Shot Day Traitor Cop

: Once per game, during the day, you or your partner may target another player and learn if they are a traitor. You will be given the result at the start of the night.
~

2-Shot Traitor Recruitment

: Twice per game, you may target another player and attempt to recall them to the Masonry if they are a traitor. If successful, they will gain access to The Fortress Sanctuary at the start of the day.

Masonry Information

:
~

Masonry

: You have access to The Fortress, the Mason PT, located here, where you may talk at any time provided you are still alive.
~

Mason Friend

: You know

Aureal

is aligned with

The Good Dreams

and is also a Mason.
~

Traitor

: You know there is a

Voidfiend Traitor

in the game. They know your name, but not your role.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: sheepsaysmeep

Carl's Older Brother

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that Carl's Older Brother was running the stand Carl once did. When asked where Carl went, his older brother shrugged and told me it wasn't his job to keep track of him.

Welcome

sheepsaysmeep

! You are now

Carl's Older Brother (Vengeful Announcing Loud Mailman)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Vengeful

: If you die for any reason during the game, you will be awarded a 1-Shot Vengekill.
~

Announcing Loud Mailman

: Each night, you may pass a message along to another player. This message must be limited to 150 characters or less. Players will be given the message at daystart, along with the fact they were targeted by Carl's Older Brother last night, and they were targeted by a Mailman last night.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Flea The Magician PM

The Final Dreamer

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that you escaped. That you made it out alive. Please, don't let anyone know you did so. I don't want to lose you again. I don't know if you'll ever see this message, but I'm here. I hope one day, we'll see each other again. You'll be ok, I know you will.

Welcome

Flea The Magician

! You are

The Final Dreamer (Town Inventing Mailman)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Inventor

: Each night, you may give a player a 1-Shot invention from the Normal Role List. You may include one modifier with this. You cannot award the same ability or modifier twice in a row. You also cannot award any roles that are Cops, Cop variations, or have the word Cop in the name. You may award roles like Tracker/Watcher/Follower/Voyeur/etc. a maximum of twice

total

between all variations.
~

Mailman

: Each night, you may pass a message along with your invention. This message cannot contain any names. Players will be told this message is included with the invention.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Morning Tweet

Lost Dragon Corpse

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that the graveyard still stood. No matter what, it stood, except this time, I was watching from the other side, not as the conduit.

Welcome

Morning Tweet

! You are

The Lost Dragon Corpse (Town Graveyard Medium)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Unique

: Your role is Unique, and cannot appear again in this game under any circumstances.
~

Graveyard Medium

: Twice per game during the day, you may submit the name of a dead player (if alive), or a living player (if dead). At the start of the night, you will get access to a PT with them that will last the full night.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Enchant

Backrooms Designer

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I finally came back to see that strange man who built that city in the Backrooms. He told me everything about him, and revealed that he truly was harmless. I believed every word he said to me, and he revealed his biggest weakness of all: he could never be saved once he died.

Welcome

Enchant

! You are a

Backrooms Designer (Town Macho Neighborizing Marshall)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Macho

: You cannot be targeted by protective roles.
~

Neighborizing Marshall

: Each night, you may target another player in the game and attempt to add them to your hood: The Backrooms. Anyone you target cannot be targeted by anyone else, nor take any actions the night you target them. You will gain access to The Backrooms the first time your neighborize is successful.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Rautherdir

Face Trader

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that there was someone who had a bunch of masks of faces, and kept asking me to trade me my face for one of his own. I kept refusing, and he kept demanding I do so.

Welcome

Rautherdir

! You are a

Face Trader (Town JOAT)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Jack of all Trades

: You have access to several one-shot abilities; they are listed below.
~

Vigilante

: Once per game, you may target another player and attempt to kill them.
~

Tracker

: Once per game, you may target another player and learn who they target tonight.
~

Absorber

: Once per game, you may target another player and attempt to gain a 1-Shot variant of their ability. Some roles are Unique, and this ability will fail on those roles.
~

Bus Driver

: Once per game, you may target two players and switch all actions between them.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Doctor Drew

Arei

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that one of my D&D character concepts was helping me fight an endless wave of shadowy creatures. Right before one of them could kill me, Arei jumped in front of me, pushing me out of the way, taking the killing blow for me, and striking it directly in its neck. I woke up shortly afterwards.

Welcome

Doctor Drew

! You are now

Arei (Town Elite Bodyguard)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Elite Bodyguard

: Each night, you may protect another player in the game. If that player should be killed, you will die instead of them, and kill the attacker.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Merlyn PM

The Great Unknown

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that ...?

Welcome

Merlyn PM

! You are

The Great Unknown (Town 2-Shot Universal Backup)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Informed

: Certain players have the "Unique" modifier attached to them. You cannot become those roles.
~

2-Shot Universal Backup

: When the first non-Unique role dies, you will gain 2-Shots of that ability. You will be sent a new PM when this happens. In the event multiple non-Unique roles die at once, you will be randomly assigned one of them to inherit.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: CSF PM NEW

The Great Unknown

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that ...?

Welcome

Cat Scratch Fever

! You are

The Great Unknown (Town 2-Shot Traffic Analyst)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

2-Shot Traffic Analyst

: Each night, you may target another player in the game and learn if they legally can communicate with another player in the game outside of the game thread.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Ranger PM

Faceless Jury

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was on trial for something. I forgot what it was, but nobody there had a face. They were like mannequins, and the power they had was uncanny. The second I said something wrong, they'd chain me to the spot and make me do something. I didn't like that dream.

Welcome

Ranger

! You are the

Faceless Jury (Town 2-Shot Nightmare Decider)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Unique

: Your role is Unique, and cannot appear again in this game under any circumstances.
~

2-Shot Nightmare Decider

: Twice per game, during the day, you may PM the mod and forcibly add someone to the Nightmare. This will be announced in the game thread.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: Save the Dragons PM

Shadow Man

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that the Shadow Man returned. He had changed a little bit, and I could tell that. He kept alternating between psychology of my life, and trying to find some fabled murderer. The dream only ended once he turned around to me and said I was the murderer.

Welcome

Save the Dragons

! You are a

Shadow Man (Town Odd-Night Psychologist Even-Night Detective)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Odd-Night Psychologist

: Each odd-numbered night, you may target another player to learn if they have the ability to kill another in the game, and have not used it yet.
~

Even-Night Detective

: Each even-numbered night, you may target another player to learn if they have killed another player in the game.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: usesPython PM

SCP Cheerleader

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that I was at the pep rally in high school, and all they were doing was shouting about how only they could contain the anomalous entity that was just??? SITTING THERE???? IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GYM???? LIKE HELLO????? WHY AREN'T YOU DOING YOUR JOB????? WHY ARE YOU ENTHUSIATICALLY CHEERING ABOUT IT???????

Welcome

usesPython

! You are a

SCP Cheerleader (Town 3-Shot Day Motivator)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

3-Shot Day Motivator

: Thrice per game, during the day, you may target another player in the game and motivate them, causing them to be able to take two different actions tonight, (outside of the innate multitasking everyone possesses), or two of the same action tonight, excluding factional abilities. Players will be informed of this at night start.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

Spoiler: WhemeStar

Eric

Strange Dreams Mafia Redux

I once had a dream that instead of Carl or any other generic four-letter name, there was Eric. Eric did not like me. He didn't want to talk to me, and instead, he decided to pull up my entire internet history and present it to me in the most accusatory way possible. One thing he presented to me was MafiaScum and I didn't like how he asked me about MafiaScum.

Welcome

WhemeStar

! You are

Eric (Town Traffic Analyst)

, and aligned with

The Good Dreams

.

Innate Abilities

:
~

Traffic Analyst

: Each night, you may target another player in the game and learn if they legally can communicate with another player in the game outside of the game thread.

Victory Condition

:
~ You win if all threats to

The Good Dreams

are dead and one member of your faction is still alive.

You forgot KKFC's PM

[DragonEater70]

Oh mb

[DragonEater70]

I wanted to include the name Marshall to cast some innate doubt on that slot by having it literally be the cult role from the first game, with a non-standard name.

You bastard.

[DragonEater70]

@usesPython are you up for a game of chess now?

[DragonEater70]

I just realized I'm probably the most informed player this game:
normal townies only know their own alignment
masons know the alignment of themselves and someone else
abnegation knows my and her alignment
scum know the alignment of scum (3 ppl)
and I know the alignment of scum, myself and abnegation (/her role), as well as the existence of 2 (or more) additional masons (though this is unconfirmed by mod)

I wanna cry because I signed up to be a stupid uninformed villager that has to figure everything out. But oh well, whatever.


Also, random thought: I guess I should try to find the masons (or just ask abnegation tbh) and somehow signal to the scum to kill them.

i wanted to cry because i was sick of being a stupid uninformed villager that has to figure everything out. if only we could have swapped roles lol.

Man I wish we coulddd

[DragonEater70]

i know this game was technically a win, but it doesn't really feel like one. i don't think i was ever

expecting

to win as 3p, especially not after massclaim, but it would have been way cooler.

Agreed on it being cooler and also probably impossible after massclaim.

[DragonEater70]

From Abnegation's notes:

I actually hate my last post, blergh.
Also I definitely think we should have some sort of a plan. I did a bit of math and I don't think we should try to lim scum until D4, unless there are A LOT of nightkills, because that way we can finish killing all the scum on maybe D6-D7, and win:
Assuming an average of 1.5 deaths per night before that, it would be 9 nightkills and 6 lims at the end of D7, leaving us with 4 leaving player, and we'll need our night kill to get a majority.
Whereas if we lim all the scum early, there will quite a few nights with no nightkill so it will be harder to win.

i thought back to this. i've only done very rough math, but this feels like it's cutting it close. depending on the number of scum and the number of nightkills, we could very well be in elo/melo by d4. i agree yeeting all the scum early is bad for us, but i don't want to end up in a situation where it's too late if we can't get the executions through that we want.

not that you'd care if we were cutting it close to a scum win...

I just wanna say that the reason I wanted to wait on killing scum is so that you don't sell me out when I'm the only scum left

But yeah I didn't mind cutting it close to a scum win

[DragonEater70]

Also I find it funny that the only 2 players with personal notes were in a PT with each other and technically aligned.

[DragonEater70]

btw why did mafia kill Aureal?

[DragonEater70]

oh.
I fucked up with not doing any signaling IG.