Open 891: STDBINSBICACOT (Game Over)

[Taly]

too amped to meme

anyone want to give me their POV on the

dunn/titus/shaddowez

trio?

[Taly]

Wouldn't it be better to have a play style that can function even if townies lie?

With a clear cut distinction between those who are lying because they have to and those who aren't because they don't need to, I find it much easier to sort.
I find that lies from townies often result in mislims and bad action choices.
Town lies also provide scum a place to hide at times.

I think your way of looking at the game is wrong. Yea that way may work most of the time, but mafia can adapt. There are really many acceptable ways to play, including lying as Town. In fact after a certain point it becomes necessary for Town to lie, since they cannot let mafia know what they're truly thinking. Doing otherwise often makes you a common NK target if you're good enough.

But i dont really feel like arguing this so you do you. What do you think about Alisae now that more time has passed?

i literally get nothing from this conversation

but initial impression of

gob

is favorable because the bolded shows a level of prioritizing thoughts and moving onto more productive discussion that seems oriented in solving.

[Taly]

VOTE: Psyche

Hi

I still want to fade Roden. I don't think he has done anything particularly townie and two dead townies thought he was scum

Not the strongest case ever but here we are

and they're voting

psyche

, how do you feel about

psyche

?

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

pedit

too amped to meme

anyone want to give me their POV on the

dunn/titus/shaddowez

trio?

Shaddow was probably a vig shot since he was the leading wagon D1 before Titus got modkilled

No clue why Dunn got killed but he was one of the few people that suspected Roden so there's that

do yuo think the

dunn

NK was meant to mislead, or what other purpose comes to mind?

i dont think leading wagon is too substantial, ill have to ISO

shaddowez

to understand why he was suspected.

[Taly]

Im so bored someone come & solve with me. Even you pisskop

you get the next best thing

TALY THE BEAKIEST

pedit

I was leaning town on Drew. Not really sure what I think of Psyche since he replaced in

im honestly reading this game from page 40 and going backward unless someone explicitly beckons me otherwise

pedit number 1000

the argument you mentioned has the typical counter ideas about NKA

[Taly]

From Page 39 to 38

i was hoping to pick up on key info from yesterday by following what people say about it today but so far all ive got are that gob "fakeclaimed" and titus was modkilled. my rvs votes don't seem very different in substance and basis than any other reads people are discussing. overall tone of thread still feels very early D1

did you have any concrete reads by the time the modkill and/or fakeclaim reveal happened?

Whoever was complaining about me fakeclaiming earlier is probably mafia btw. That is the classic mafia line.

how did you come to believe that saying fakeclaiming sucks is so scummy

Going after fakeclaims are incredibly easy to push and convincingly paint as scum

Whoever was complaining about me fakeclaiming earlier is probably mafia btw. That is the classic mafia line.

what did you fakeclaim and why did you do it?

I actually have a green check on Roden.

lol

VOTE: Roden

For Titus and Dunn!

Roden

had

Dunn

as his strongest townread, are you of the belief that was a TMI?

Alisa can you give us some reasons for the stuff you're so glibly posting?

no

alisae

seems above rand town for this behavior

i think

dave

hasnt pinged me either

that modkill was unfortunate, but it happened.

this post feels a little disingenuous
it's not substantive and also doesn't convincingly advances a clear rhetorical or cathartic objective
i feel like it's just there to be there

VOTE: pisskop

very uncharitable take imo

VOTE: Psyche
I'll just go w/ Psyche cuz I feel like their posting is probably wolf indicative

want to tell lil ol me why?

how about crescent can I interest you all in Crescent
VOTE: Crescent

especially sincec you want to push

crescent

too

I really wish Dunn didn't die, that was pretty much my only lock town read

do you have any other somewhat-townreads? and what was the basis of you townreading

Dunn

?

pedit

Oh, and the bird pic made me dizzy.

oh youre in for a fucking ride then

dave

but really though, i can chill with the GIFs if theyre really a problem for you how's

ra

in

bow

tex

t?

[Taly]

I think gob has been scummy and I think the Cop claim could indicate he's Informed

I'd be ok with a Roden fade too

how does the claim imply an informed POV in your mind?

I don't like Alisae or Pisskop here.

this was said when both of them were townleaning on you

gob

is their reasoning for such misled, or does it feel like a TMI?

@gob why do you townread Roden?

I'm not townreading Roden, but I think they get scumread early because of their avatar.

...Is this really something that people do?

unhelpful, I would've thought someone responds on an inquiry or observation about the read rather than the fluffy part

Do you think that pisskop makes that post if he's scum who took informed and knows there's no cop?

That idea crossed my mind from pisskop's entirely unconcerned response to gob today.

It actually makes me wonder if that's traitor-gob signaling to pisskop although that feels... ill-advised. But based on what I've seen of gob it's maybe something he might do?

i think any traitor spec rn is counterintuitive and allows red herrings

I am fine w/ 107

im biased but i agree

pedit

it’s a deliberately uncharitable take

"bad faith"

is more of what i meant but im curious as to why it was deliberate

pedit again

well do you think

Alisae

is worthy to be the topic of discussion

psyche

?

[Taly]

What are these n1 kills huh????

I don't understand why scum would hit Dunn over Dann here if Dann is town. I don't think a single person in the game scumread Dann while Dunn was in multiple solves

The answer is Dann is probably just scum

Meh

okey VOTE: pisskop

Let's not be hasty here.

VOTE: black

Fake vote. We're fading gob or pisskop today, then you tomorrow

I think Roden is probably the best vote you could've opened the day with if you're scum here

why would i not reevaluate if my solve is off

I think you would, but I think town!you would have spent more time than just a few minutes of re-evaluating and I think you would have walked us through your thought process

I never believed your claim but if youve got a result lay it down.

Well thats the thing... I checked you and you're mafia.

pedit

if continuing w the charitability motif,

this reaction to gob seems overly charitable even as other analyses seem plenty willing to run the other direction.

disagree, and do you contest that idea that fakeclaiming is not always mafia? i dont have the full information of the thread yet, so i dont think your comparative statement is fair here.

if you think im uncharitable with any other slot unreasonably, then say it.

[Taly]

ooof i didnt notice those quotes were attached X_X

pedit

oh i see

[Taly]

What are these n1 kills huh????

Alisae's HW

1. why

crescent

2. why

psyche

3. why are the N1 kills odd

I don't understand why scum would hit Dunn over Dann here if Dann is town. I don't think a single person in the game scumread Dann while Dunn was in multiple solves

The answer is Dann is probably just scum

I get more confused about who you're scumreading the more I read and I don't know if its the fact I'm going backward.

Meh

What is making it difficult to engage with

Dann

?

okey VOTE: pisskop

Let's not be hasty here.

what's wrong about the

pisskop

vote?

VOTE: black

Fake vote. We're fading gob or pisskop today, then you tomorrow

I think Roden is probably the best vote you could've opened the day with if you're scum here

Insert what I said in the above quote post

why would i not reevaluate if my solve is off

I think you would, but I think town!you would have spent more time than just a few minutes of re-evaluating and I think you would have walked us through your thought process

you seem exasperated by

black's

POV here, what are you intending to figure out?

I never believed your claim but if youve got a result lay it down.

Well thats the thing... I checked you and you're mafia.

did this go anywhere for you?

[Taly]

i decided this rep-in to have my own rvs-lite by picking posts i didn’t like to be hypercritical about. so far find it to be a very efficient way to join in on the flow of the game and drive discussion. especially compared to previous games where i conditioned my own engagement on my ability to catch up on and develop a principled stance on everything that happened before i showed up. nothing in this post is really new information from me. i said the post was hypercritical and specious well before anyone interpreted these features as suspicious.

did this give you any confident read?

pedit

im kind of done with just quote walls

real-time interactions are now more effective.

but i think my questions should be engaged with because those will help me fill in the gaps on my knowledge with the game

[Taly]

of course fakeclaiming is not always mafia. i wish it were. my stance is that it’s almost always poopy and bad for town. feel like the reasons why are sort of obvious but some people think they’re clever enough to overcome the downsides.

im of the opinion cop fakeclaims are much more often town, from purely empirical evidence

im not interested in pursuing

gob

but that doesnt mean i consider them sorted

I was leaning town on Drew. Not really sure what I think of Psyche since he replaced in

I would appreciate it if you could start having complex thoughts soon

i like some of

psyche's

thought process but im deliberating if its AI

i think my alisae read will survive the day

fair and i think

ali

passes the

ali

vibe check from what ive read so far

[Taly]

I think I'm most interested in wagoning pisskop out of the available options.

Taly replaces pisskop.

A tragedy in one act.

im the best thing thats happened to this game

[Taly]

Let her answer

one post i like from this slot

[Taly]

can someone with more confidence give me their take on

SS

their scum and town games are nearly indistinguishable to me

[Taly]

you can wagon me

SS

[Taly]

so far i have

alisae, gob, psyche

as town and i will fade out of existence if this ever turns out to be wrong because its my first true contribution to this game

[Taly]

You're confusing hyper posting and constantly shifting reads with depth

i feel called out

[Taly]

VOTE: Alisae can be one of the people who starts posting complete thoughts instead of one liners.

VOTE: Alisae

i dont get it

[Taly]

maybe its just me but

dunn

was obviously in his town meta here, and this is not confbias because i knew the result

ive just seen

dunn

as both alignments and i feel theyre very easy to read, even from page 1 i couldve justified a townread on

Dunn

so all this stuff about

dunn

being in people's PoE D1 is bizarre

[Taly]

black

i want to townread you but you having a pool large enough to guarantee almost half is town is really giving me a pause

[Taly]

maybe its just me but

dunn

was obviously in his town meta here, and this is not confbias because i knew the result

ive just seen

dunn

as both alignments and i feel theyre very easy to read, even from page 1 i couldve justified a townread on

Dunn

so all this stuff about

dunn

being in people's PoE D1 is bizarre

I think the person who killed dunn townread him

do you have a pool of those people known already or do i have homework?

[Taly]

i want more than 3 townreads

[Taly]

black

i want to townread you but you having a pool large enough to guarantee almost half is town is really giving me a pause

What do you think my pool is

roden, me, dannflor, gob, alisae

from what IVE read in less than 10 pages of this game.

like at least 2/5 are town and i townread

gob/alisae

so this isnt far-fetched

[Taly]

give a post you didn't like from

pk

and i can probably defend it very well, i dont like some of their posting D2 but i can fully follow their mentality

[Taly]

i treat predecessors like masons

pedit

black

i want to townread you but you having a pool large enough to guarantee almost half is town is really giving me a pause

What do you think my pool is

roden, me, dannflor, gob, alisae

from what IVE read in less than 10 pages of this game.

like at least 2/5 are town and i townread

gob/alisae

so this isnt far-fetched

I think Dann could be town and I'm not sure about gob. You're a question mark too but I think I lean town here. You're right about Alisae and Roden though

you think they're bussing?

pedit again

Seems many people are townreading me.

How about you guys trust me as well, and vote along with me. Let's put some pressure on Crescent's slot.

who even is

crescent

, i have scoured these pages and while ive largely skimmed, i havent seen them pop up

[Taly]

i always have the opinion that its bad faith to be complacent with me because of my predecessor as far as replacements go, but im probably not going to convince you of that

[Taly]

i guess ill do the heavy lifting and ISO

Crescent/Dunn

...

[Taly]

we're not eliminating

aliase

at F10

[Taly]

titus

was modkilled, im not dissecting that and i dont know why - frankly i dont care to know why, so i really dont think theres valuable game info about the timing of

titus'

death that isnt pure speculation

[Taly]

damn im skimming

crescent

ISO and im really feeling for

pisskop

[Taly]

[Taly]

titus

was modkilled, im not dissecting that and i dont know why - frankly i dont care to know why, so i really dont think theres valuable game info about the timing of

titus'

death that isnt pure speculation

Scummy post.

I am feeling more and more confident it's you my friend.

Genuinely, I don't understand what you expect from me. I don't think it's appropriate for me to have another perpsective since I don't know the details even when I'm trying to scour the game looking for them.

[Taly]

gob

you should backoff and focus elsewhere, the confbias is getting on my nerves

[Taly]

Aliase

you mentioned

Roden

is doing something thats geenrally a towntell, but is that what your actual read is?

[Taly]

Dannflor
Black (low confidence read)

Alisae (yes I'm grumpy. I detected a slight but noticeable change so maybe it worked)
gob

Roden
Taly (vague memory of being good at rehabilitating a slot, pisskop was trending a bit lower)
Crescent (posting gave me a good impression but a lot of it would be easy to fake. very likely to be replaced)

Psyche
Something_Smart (has mostly escaped my attention, and it's pretty rare to get to middle of d2 and not remember much of what a player has done)

VOTE: Something_Smart

Why is

Psyche

so low?

[Taly]

It's not really confbiasing really btw. I knew 50/50 between you and Cresecent there is a likely maf. Or potentially Roden is deep, but I think they're towny so far.

I should return to this because there's a bg fallacy in your thinking. You seem to posit that

Crescent/I

must be TvS but you don't seem very critical of that idea. Do you have an actual result that suggests this or is this purely your own subjective thought?

I also don't like that you mention

Roden

is a deepwolf but don't investigate further, that's both low effort and interesting that you're choosing an already wagoned slot as a pivot point.

I'm trying to understand how sincere you actually are with your reads.

[Taly]

Hi

I still want to fade Roden. I don't think he has done anything particularly townie and two dead townies thought he was scum

Not the strongest case ever but here we are

I find your constant instance on Roden to be weird at this point. I feel like Roden has been towny enough for today.

too amped to meme

anyone want to give me their POV on the

dunn/titus/shaddowez

trio?

I think that Shaddowez is a potential vigilante kill. Dunn is likely the mafia kill. There was some suspicion on shadowez so idk why the mafia would kill shaddowez.

I think I agree with this NKA. It is optimal for town to eliminate widely suspected slots as a vig. But it sounds like

Dunn

had some defenders and townreaders.

[Taly]

i change my mind about alisae

My interpretation of

Alisae

this past page is breathing life into a dull game. E can be absolutely content with multiple votes as either a bus or a specific read but e chooses to use a vote as a method to sort or pull the game somewhere. Gaining thread control is not inherently scum motivated. I might just sheep it, wagoning replacins do not leave a good taste in my mouth. Town usually loses games with this perspective.

Roden

can you explain your vote on

Alisae

?

I wonder where

Dann

is they may be the closest next person I townread simply from there exasperation on a previous page for trying to have a discussion with a less-than-receptive

Black

.

I'm of two differing minds with

Black

and I'm trying to eliminate counter thoughts by re-reading her and making her spew.

Black

how do you take this information?

[Taly]

Still waiting for this playerlist to earn a scum elimination. There's a distinct lack of town cohesion and teamwork I am sensing.

[Taly]

Increased teaching assistant workload brcause someone is sick, grant proposal is due, insurance denials, exams

I'm going VLA until Thursday.

[Taly]

dann, dave, and black

compose a tier of townreads for me

not a fan of

gamma

entrance but then again, i havent read it all, or much of the last 4 pages

as for

crescent

,

black

, i didnt really skim them critically when i did it last night, but i found them to be hyper aggressive and very critical of everything my predecessor did so all i think about

crescent

was

"detriment"

, i need to reread to think its NAI but i think

gamma

is an easier read.

[Taly]

Lmao I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or earnest or if that's a dig

[Taly]

SS

is not in the top 3 places I'd vote rn but I'm curious to hear why the wagon exists

[Taly]

Tone. Not a convincing read. I don't get the impression they have an agenda or are dwyaing people intentionally in any certain direction.

Why do you scumread

dave

?

[Taly]

Roden

you noted

Titus/Black

were TvT early in the game and several posts henceafter show you think otherwise. Can you explain thay progression?

[Taly]

Idk I don't really take issue with any of the posts you mentioned of

Dave

but i can do a second look

[Taly]

i detect genuine frustration from

roden

hmmm

[Taly]

pssst, what if we faded

gamma

[Taly]

just

up and delete

[Taly]

im kind of not getting this

roden v black

1v1, like what is being gained here?

[Taly]

gamma

you havent given me "i believe im town" yet

[Taly]

anyone who is voting

alisae

is wrong

pedit am i supposed to do something

ali

what's my homework

give me purpose in this dark, cruel, colorless world

pedit again

why is

black

scum?

PEDIT FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME

i said soemthing about

crescent

being overly critical of my predecessor so naturally i didnt like their ISO or their opinions of the gmae because im biased

PISSKOP

IS TOWN DAMNIT

PEDITED A FUCKING FOURTH TIME

[Taly]

im gooing to pass away if

roden/alisae/black

are all town

[Taly]

i keep hearing parrots of

psyche's

posts are bad but im not hearing any elaboration there

[Taly]

shhhh,

gamma

don't worry, we're eliminating your partners, not you

<3

[Taly]

im gooing to pass away if

roden/alisae/black

are all town

Do you think this is the case?

i really do not know, i wouldnt be surprised by almost any combination of alignments between these 3, so i should probably find a different approach

in a vacuum, i townread individual posts

but all 3 scum still live, and i actually have an abundance of

"this seems towny'{/i] thoughts.

so i need to look deeper than a vacuum

[Taly]

ali

y is

black

a big scary wolf what is it, is it the fangs or wolf ears?

i dont think that avatar is a wolf

Drew's posts were unimpressive and lacked any kind of passion or drive

Psyche then replaced in and then didn't really do anything, even though other slots that have replaced in have been putting in effort to solve and sort people

What has this slot done to be townie?

im gonna look at

Drew

and form my own opinion but I can see what you mean,

psyche

has had the most time as a rep-in

[Taly]

was little red riding hood tasty,

black

?

[Taly]

i liked every 10th post in

drew's

ISO that i took 3 minutes to skim and that was when they were pushing

crescent

so i can kind of understand the issue with that slot

hmmm

but i liked

psyche's

convo to me when i came in

[Taly]

roden

you dont actually believe

black

is scum?

[Taly]

gamma

i may be meme'ing but im only HALF joking with my memes to you

you dont take issue with my scumread?

[Taly]

no, its actually more on you but

crescent

didnt give me fluffy feelings either

[Taly]

inb4

gob

says im bussing

[Taly]

shhhhhh

[Taly]

a completely new day, a completely new solve, eh

black

?

[Taly]

my counter thought on

black

is largely that their solving is mainly scumcasing and generating elimination orders.

its like, a very blatant and strong scumhunting mentality toward majority the game's slots, but the votes move closest to general consensus than one may think and its devoid of townhunting.

its why the counter idea is that

black

is just good at making convincing scumhunting cases because most slots are fair game to be eliminated -- rather than solved.

what i mean is, its not actually obvious whether

black

believes in her pushes because of how much it fluctuates, and how thoroughly it is overstated.

im sedated from night medicines, so im not sure how much of this makes sense.

but while i do feel some

black

behaviors are town, i dont think she interacts with the game in a good faith manner reflective of town sorting, but closer to the line of finding an elimination that wont give her as much backlash.

[Taly]

VOTE: Black

[Taly]

i think

roden

is likely town.

i just dont see some of their points and ideas being ones that scum makes, but im not in the feeling of digressing.

i must sleep rn, so yeah

[Taly]

Oh lovely, the sedative only put me away for 4 hours and not 9.

I should be returning to bed but I want to give the past 2-3 pages a good eye.

If there's less desire for the wagon I'm open to hearing alternatives. My mind behind the

black

vote is partially to help me solve the slot better and nothing much has changed from them since.

[Taly]

It's the middle of the night and I'm on mobile in bed but I don't think town!Dann would actually vote me here

The taly vote is ??? especially since he said I'm voting close to consensus when there's only like 2 people that would actually vote to fade you today. His whole post feels like an over justification to vote me

The gamma vote is scummy too but I haven't been able to shake the feeling that Crescent was scum. The way Dann has defended this slot makes me think they could be partnered, but Dann telling me "I can't believe you haven't reevaluated your Crescent read" makes me think he could just be informed she's town? Not sure how to determine which is correct. I might just be full of confbias here

So taly/Dann. Not really sure who the third could be

It was night brain thoughts, not a Ted talk

[Taly]

Not at all what I said

[Taly]

I just question the sincerity of your reads because you have a new solve consistently and I can't tell if that's a lack of good faith or playstyle.

[Taly]

And I say "counter thoughts" because I figured it's better I solved you more directly by openly sharing my reservations.

[Taly]

I mean I thought they were coming in because that's what people were voting on, maybe aside from

Dann

but

Roden/Alisae

though

[Taly]

I just question the sincerity of your reads because you have a new solve consistently and I can't tell if that's a lack of good faith or playstyle.

Since when has fluid reads and lack of conviction been a scumtell?

Since when could it not be a scumtell? What I'd your perspective of this game as a whole?

[Taly]

I'm getting a vibe that I shouldn't vote Dann right now.

I want Psyche, but it's not happening and I don't think it will happen today. As long as he continues to play low key, he's pretty much guaranteed to survive until more flips happen.

I moved my vote off of you Black for a lot of little reasons, but the most pertinent is the VT claim. The wagon built too quick and I don't think you had enough time to talk in a scum PT about whether you should fake claim or not.

That leaves me to look at the game state and the strength of my reads. There's been a lot of talk about Dave but no real pressure, and it's been said my reads are weird. So if I'm wrong about a town read, I think it could be him, and I'm willing to explore it.

Why not this slot of we are in your bPoE?

[Taly]

Lol plurality is weird. If I use "we" pronouns, it's because we are a plural system. (Partial DID for us.)

[Taly]

I just question the sincerity of your reads because you have a new solve consistently and I can't tell if that's a lack of good faith or playstyle.

Since when has fluid reads and lack of conviction been a scumtell?

Since when could it not be a scumtell? What I'd your perspective of this game as a whole?

It can be but you townread me earlier, so why would you suddenly SR me and want to fade me for doing the same thing I've done all game? Make it make sense

I think you might want to reread my ISO when I mention the counter idea I had about your alignment and the progression there. You also have a bit of narrow thinking that my vote implies I want to actively eliminate you rather than just sort you in a different way, which is a non-trivial distinction.

[Taly]

Dann

why vote

Dave

over

Psyche/Gamma/SS

on your POV?

[Taly]

I rarely agree with other people when they say the term "scummy" :/

What about the other 3?

[Taly]

I'm really not seeing

Gamma

town other than the ask for deadline extension.

Also UNVOTE:

I need to revisit this but I must go back to sleep.

[Taly]

VOTE: Gamma

Unconvinced

Dann

sorry. I want to see what comes of this.

[Taly]

what does this game look like if

dann/black/ali/roden

are all town hmmm

[Taly]

[Taly]

gob

is

gamma

a wagon you want or not?

[Taly]

i havent been wrong about

gamma

in recent memory

[Taly]

omg where are you im bored

[Taly]

i demand people to drop everything in their life to have a somewhat shallow solve conversation with me in a mafia forum game /j

[Taly]

a red flip and maybe more liberal voting so theres more content to analyze

[Taly]

gob

is

gamma

a wagon you want or not?

I would be fine with that.

3/6 votes, what are you afraid of then?

[Taly]

my

gob

senses are tingling, they tell me

gob

is scared

[Taly]

SS

you seem wholly unconcerned with your wagon and i sadly predicted that

[Taly]

like, very sadly

[Taly]

strongest scumread actually idk what to make of

black/roden/alisae

but they seem towny in a vaccuum

i really dont feel convinced by the

dave

push

dann

is fine, i think, i just think their sincere

gob

is actually town

*sobs at the the realization*

psyche

? i could see it but i dont think anyones actually said a definitive case there so it feels kind of like your wagon

SS

where someone points aimlessly in a direction and everyone wants to kill

thats not how id characterize

MY

push onto

gamma

, but yeah

pedit

SS

you seem wholly unconcerned with your wagon and i sadly predicted that

Two people are voting me. That isn't a wagon.

i can vote and make it three, then you'll have a wagon

my

gob

senses are tingling, they tell me

gob

is scared

I’m scared of everything

thats heavy man

[Taly]

then give me a short, digestible readslist, that has to be pretty low effort

[Taly]

its not hard to do

[Taly]

actually

gob

what do you make of the

alisae/black/roden

interaction the past couple of pages?

[Taly]

I'm a power wolf y'all

[Taly]

I'm definitely quieter. I typically am still considered a deepwolf. I don't have the same spontaneity because my.mind needs something to solve and that's hard to fake from an informed perspective because of the sheer size and volume I have as a hyperposter. (Literally, I do not have any completed scumgames with being this high activity.) I have not replicated hyperposting as scum to-date but can probably make it somewhat convincing. I do have a very solid read progression that I can fake and justify very well-- I've had people know that I'm scum but still struggled to case against me because I was "too perfect." I pocket, I can still be emotional but I'm more fearful of using AtE maliciously so it's more calculated to a specific goal. I promise to do more but I have less WIM and therefore am flakier and less tryharding.

As town I kind of AtE unintentionally. I take spotlight unintentionally. I have so many thoughts sometimes and I don't think it's useful to explain them all in a coherent progression unlike what is closer to what I think as my scumgame. My tonal range as town is very wide and so I can have a lot of different faces as town even in the same game. My WIM fluctuates a lot but as long as I am both scumhunting and townhunting, it's very strong.

I've had perfect scum wins before.

I've been LHF on otherwise strong teams before.

I've won as an 3p before.

I've been miseliminated in D1 before.

I've lost in elo as town more than as scum, and many uninformed dead threads have assumed I'm the final mafia too.

There is a perception that I'm very strong at scum and good at, as

Dave

said, rehabilitating slots.

But that's NAI, people just find my town game unpredictable with really good reason and I've had enough good scumgames to be BoP'd as a threat, yet I'm confident scum would use that against me.

I'm usually a near universal townread in games until I begin surviving for awhile.

I'm told I'm hard to read but I don't think so.

I'm hard to understand.

Or, for some people, vice versa.

I think there's a distinction between understanding a player and assessing their alignment.

[Taly]

If you want me to lay it on thicker

I'm either town or am breaking new ground as a scum player right now.

[Taly]

well i humored

black

because she thought it was valuable

dont be cross

[Taly]

i really dont understand the scumreads on

pisskop

, but im inclined to defend

pisskop

like a mason so thats the bias here

[Taly]

viewtopic.php?p=10149137&f=56&t=76118&u ... #p10149137

lol back when i didnt understand what

"chill"

meant, i wasnt sentient back then

pedit

I think pisskop's reaction to the fake guilty was bad, and I think it might be because he knew there was no cop.

nah

[Taly]

gob

i genuinely want to work with you but i dont understand your issue with me

please dont tell me my posts are worthless, that is unfair and hurts my motivation

[Taly]

okay, i understand now, thank you, it has been nice to play with you

gob

i would agree too

i probably need to actually VLA though, im experiencing a rise in manic symptoms and this week has deadlines which isnt a good mix



here's some good vibes for the thread

[Taly]

I'm really not seeing

Gamma

town other than the ask for deadline extension.

Also UNVOTE:

I need to revisit this but I must go back to sleep.

Funny, that was one of my biggest scumtells.

thats because i told

gamma

to ask for a deadline extension to look towny in our PT, gosh

gob

you're ruining my scum!plans

[Taly]

I don't like being accused of being "actively scummy" and would argue that I'm being as transparently town as I'm able, but can understand where it could come from. I have come to expect people to have those thoughts.

this is a town reaction

[Taly]

meh if y'all wanna vote me out then vote me out
don't hold the game up waiting on me

this is probably a scum reaction

[Taly]

a completely new day, a completely new solve, eh

black

?

Seems fine to me.

VOTE: Black

VOTE: Black
I'm high on adrenaline rn and feeling it

Black (4) - Alisae, Roden, Taly, Gamma Emerald
Something_Smart (3) - davesaz, Dannflor, gob
Alisae (1) - Black

Not Voting (2) - Something_Smart, Psyche

Come on let's make it happen

One of the people on Black is scum as well. Given the last pool it seems it's either Taly or Gamma.

same 2 in your PoE this entire dayphase we're

pisskop

and

crescent

, remember?

[Taly]

Well we have time. Let's not rush on Gamma everyone.

Although i guess we don't have much time actually. Like 2 days

Just don't hammer early

what do you want to accomplish when 1 of your 2 biggest scumreads are about to be eliminated?

you want me as a counter wagon? thatll probably spice the game up and itd help me read it better

[Taly]

I mean I’ll wait for an answer.

I do not think it is Taly.

Okay I see you did stuff I didn't read.

I also do like Taly's posts, but I do think they're still likely scum actually. The way they've been voting + pisskop's previous play.

im probably never getting nightkilled so why be apologetic about what slots i want direct mod confirmation on what their alignment is

[Taly]

Psyche/SS

feel like LHF wagons, i dont think they're partnered

What's harder to consider is which votes are actually opportunistic because that's a pretty general characteristic of any vote this game

I can't read

SS

so anyone willing to help my perception is free to

Psyche

should be doing something as I figured their playstyle would've

"gotten into the flow of the game"

by now... so that might actually be reflected of a wolf WIM.

idk

Gamma

just doesn't behave this way as what ive seen from town and they resign to eliminations much more as scum

for a non-meta take on

Gamma

, why is

Gamma

voting based on the second highest wagon to them? it is survivalistic off face-value

i also wonder if

Gamma's

townread is meant to pacify me, or if its just a TMI to avoid engagement

[Taly]

ewww do i want to say

SS

is town

SS-

... i-is..

is

, t-ta-toAWerafwdqgui.tdrfeawdfeasgrhtkyludtrgs

[Taly]

gamma that is not a reaction ive ever seen you have to a wagon as town

[Taly]

its because im campaigning for

gamma

fade

[Taly]

im a big scary powerwolf

black

everything i do is subject to fear

[Taly]

I thought I'd be busier as I have an exam Friday but I'm really just needing to take more time to chill as I'm burning out and recovering from a mood episode

Plus

Gob

an still answer on his own

[Taly]

I'm giving

gob

a pass right now, because empirically, no matter how objectively anti-town some of their behaviors are, it comes from town much more often.

Plus this is purely

Gamma

laying over to die as scum

[Taly]

Shit I just realized I referred to

Gamma

as they/them sorry, not sure if those pronouns work

[Taly]

alisae/gob/dann/black

so this is all town right

[Taly]

Not Confident

Something_Smart

davesaz

Psyche

Roden

Confident

Taly
Dannflor

Alisae
gob

Black

Gamma Emerald

[Taly]

if I'm only 1 off in my

Confident

this is a very winnable game

[Taly]

not tonally, just is projecting a self-belief in being town which is my number 1 predictor of determining someone is town

[Taly]

she/it it is then thank yuo for clarifying

[Taly]

i believe that actually

[Taly]

I think my impressions of the current situation lead me to want to merc one of the less involved players, those being Psyche and S_S
VOTE: something_smart
this had traction earlier so I'll go here

I do not think pk/Taly is scum here at all. Black and Alisae are intriguing, I might ISO them, but that would also take place over night phase because me ISOing slots tends to end up overwriting chronological catch-up

this is a dangerously presumptuous question, but do we think this vote is a bus?

because i do actually think

psyche/SS

can feasibly contain at least 1 scum

its interesting that

SS

was the choice of vote given that

Gamma

has not had any interaction with either of the two, not even directly, and they both - to me - seemed each a viable wagon.

so there's something AI here but i dont know if and where it says TvS

[Taly]

She doesn't have such a subdued reaction to being wagoned this seriously as town

[Taly]

The commentary makes sense because it isn't a unique assessment of reads.

[Taly]

i should really go study for my exam, have fun at work for all of us

[Taly]

beautiful,

gob

, beautiful

[Taly]

gob

why are you tunneling me

[Taly]

hmmm,

ali

why is

psyche

town? i was ready to speedvote them

[Taly]

Drew/Crescent

not wolf-wolf hmm

gamma

did vote

SS

rather than

Psyche

, that would assume it was a bus

[Taly]

Both kills on gamma wagon, meaning there is probably multiple wolves off wagon. (Roman, Psyche, S_S, Roden)
If there is a wolf on, it may be Taly. I was a bit confused with their late pop in yesterday, felt very weird.

you think i would turbolim a scum partner rep-in?

[Taly]

i mean

SS

was my second scumread anyway, but i doubt all 3 D2 wagons were realistically SvSvS

[Taly]

yeah

Psyche/SS

are very likely TvS

[Taly]

Both kills on gamma wagon, meaning there is probably multiple wolves off wagon. (Roman, Psyche, S_S, Roden)
If there is a wolf on, it may be Taly. I was a bit confused with their late pop in yesterday, felt very weird.

you think i would turbolim a scum partner rep-in?

What does your rep-in have to do with anything? I don't know you or your play so this doesn't mean anything to me.

im talking about

gamma's

you suppose immedaitely in the dayphase, after giving a PoE of 4 people, that i am the potential wolf on it

who do you even townread

[Taly]

deathtunnel initiation: delayed

[Taly]

i also agree vig claim is wise

[Taly]

Ok, this is a game that is dominated by a few high posters while others are doing absolutely nothing, like Alisae. She has three posts, and no content, and possibly the single laziest vote in the game.

Almost all commentary revolving around Dave feels superficial, especially the votes. He feels like a topic that exists for the sake of being a topic. Dunnstral has basically done nothing of any relevance at all, but he's gotten votes out of it. The votes on both of them feel cheap and not really based on solving.

Odd sequence: Titus votes Black. Drew votes Black. Roden calls Titus and Black both town, and Gob says he doesn't like Roden. Drew then responds to Gob saying he also doesn't like Roden. Shortly after this, Black votes Roden. Titus changes her mind and votes Roden, and Drew immediately asks her why she's backing off on Black.

What Drew never provides however, are his own reasons to suspect Black or Rodon to begin with. He just sheeps people onto both of them, and then he questions why the first person he sheeped changed her mind. It doesn't feel like a natural town progression at all.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

Speaking of Gob, they feel like they're on crack, is this normal for them?

Shadow and Something feel like they're staying on the sidelines and only making fringe comments. Almost all of Dann's posts focus on Dave. All of them are low posters. These are three people I would like to see something more concrete from going forward.

there wouldve been no reason for

Crescent

to make this elaborate post to just bus a partner when its not even remotely necessary, right?

[Taly]

The problem stems from the fact that his only source of "content" in the game: When he's coasting off of other people's scumreads in the same sequence. His vote on Black was naked and never explained later, quickly following a post where he complained about the activity. His response to Gob saying he didn't like Roden was again naked, in the very next post after Gob, and never explained later. He then deflects his own lack of content by questioning Titus, when he's already indicated he believes she moved the vote from one person he dislikes and onto another.

He has done nothing to suggest he had a genuine read on Black or Roden. The fact that his vote didn't move from Black to Roden doesn't change this.

Looks like someone has never seen my scum game.

I didn't like how Black came off with her interaction with Titus so two things were in play here. One, I needed to do something to thrust myself into the game and two, I almost always will sheep Titus as long as I don't think she is scum. And ya I didn't like Roden's posting right after that, but didn't feel the need to change my vote at the time.

If, as Titus is kinda suggesting, if Roden and I were buddies I am almost guaranteed to switch my vote to them at that point. And I am not going to switch to them because the person I am currently voting is asking me to lol.

Helping you out here Crescent, a little intro to TownDrew with an added bonus of a little smidge of how scumDrew plays.

Glad I could be of assistance.

Pre Edit: Ali not feeling like playing is totally townAli lol

could this have been planned?

[Taly]

i have no qualms with the townbloc tbh, im not 100% on

psyche

but i do like their posts here, and i did like the posts in the initial conversation

[Taly]

I think pisskop's reaction to the fake guilty was bad, and I think it might be because he knew there was no cop.

VOTE: SS
Let's kill this person next

im honestly down with this VOTE: Something_Scum <3

[Taly]

The problem stems from the fact that his only source of "content" in the game: When he's coasting off of other people's scumreads in the same sequence. His vote on Black was naked and never explained later, quickly following a post where he complained about the activity. His response to Gob saying he didn't like Roden was again naked, in the very next post after Gob, and never explained later. He then deflects his own lack of content by questioning Titus, when he's already indicated he believes she moved the vote from one person he dislikes and onto another.

He has done nothing to suggest he had a genuine read on Black or Roden. The fact that his vote didn't move from Black to Roden doesn't change this.

Looks like someone has never seen my scum game.

I didn't like how Black came off with her interaction with Titus so two things were in play here. One, I needed to do something to thrust myself into the game and two, I almost always will sheep Titus as long as I don't think she is scum. And ya I didn't like Roden's posting right after that, but didn't feel the need to change my vote at the time.

If, as Titus is kinda suggesting, if Roden and I were buddies I am almost guaranteed to switch my vote to them at that point. And I am not going to switch to them because the person I am currently voting is asking me to lol.

Helping you out here Crescent, a little intro to TownDrew with an added bonus of a little smidge of how scumDrew plays.

Glad I could be of assistance.

Pre Edit: Ali not feeling like playing is totally townAli lol

could this have been planned?

nah, i think SvS wouldve had a shitfight or been much less chill here?

[Taly]

YIKES

YEAH

that last sentence from

crescent

is very damning, and it makes me think

crescent's

mentality wsa strictly to go after townies rather than their own partners

ok we can flip

SS

[Taly]

gob

please put

SS

to E1, thank you

[Taly]

gob

stop scumsiding, thank you

<3

[Taly]

fair

[Taly]

If there is a wolf on, it may be Taly.

I was a bit confused with their late pop in yesterday, felt very weird.

every fiber of my being wants to

violently

dunk on this

[Taly]

Also I looked at these iso's assuming Alisae isn't playing us here, which is probably possible? But I'm willing to believe they are town

eh, id rather a proven wrong flip on my scumreads before i consider this

i mean my PoE is otherwise half the remaining plist

[Taly]

Alisae why should we rule you out as scum here

but i do like this question though

[Taly]

you really do not want me to answer that

i trust this

[Taly]

what does this game look like if

dann/black/ali/roden

are all town hmmm

alisae/gob/dann/black

so this is all town right

Not Confident

Something_Smart

davesaz

Psyche

Roden

Confident

Taly
Dannflor

Alisae
gob

Black

Gamma Emerald

Taly why do you think Roden is town and why does your confidence drop on him around this point?

Also it doesn't feel like you are very confident in town!gob anymore

vibes, thought their frustration to you was genuine, but that might be NAI tbh

yeah im thinking about

gob

more tbh, im not a fan of their opener today thus far

[Taly]

we can give the courtesy to

SS

in allowing them to REALIZE he is about the be turbolimmed

not something i have historically done when i want to blitz a player

but maybe this is a lesson for me

[Taly]

it sounds like a buddy townread because its also agreeing with the push on

drew

[Taly]

because partners

*clap*

[Taly]

roden

townreads partners

crescent

pushes townies

SS

is

SS

it is a cohesive effort there.

hmmmmm

[Taly]

nah im not really familiar with them, but it does sound like a potential wolf-team strat

[Taly]

Roden

are you a vig?

[Taly]

*gets out the popcorn*

[Taly]

I want

Roden[/b[ to explain his reads

[Taly]

Tbh I feel like vig is closer to negative utility unless we gatekeep the shot

Misfire can put us in elo or actually lose the game rn, only if we mislim

5:2

[Taly]

Do we blitz

Roden

now?

[Taly]

ok I'm claiming vig then ig we can just win

Like this is what I was wondering and that's why I didn't want you to explain first

[Taly]

Ali

made er day and so should you,

Roden

You're going to live as LONG as I want you to until you explain yourself

[Taly]

Do we blitz

Roden

now?

nah let's just kill gob/ss.
Ig I can shoot Roden at night? I kinda just wanna shoot the other tho LOL

Shooting

Gob

would be some funny shit

I'm game

[Taly]

Scums have some shit WIM and don't do a thing nowadays

[Taly]

Why bet on

Psyche

and not

Black

or I?

[Taly]

Nice shot tbh
We don't have to bet the game over a TvT anymore

[Taly]

Why bet on

Psyche

and not

Black

or I?

I guess what I mean is, why was

Psyche

the cover?

[Taly]

Ah I see

[Taly]

I am closer to thinking

SS

is always a partner here

[Taly]

Idk does

Gob

spend D2 saying

Roden

is obvtown and sheep him blatantly?

[Taly]

As partners

[Taly]

Lol

black

we strugglin

[Taly]

I'm OK playing this like it's

Gob/SS

[Taly]

Over

SS

?

Haha that's memeworthy

[Taly]

oh you know what I think gob is more likely to concede than SS let's get SS VOTE: SS

LMAO

[Taly]

It's so fucking satisfying to think that

Gob's

play comes from scum because it's the perfect argument people come up with for "too wolfy to wolf." The irony.

[Taly]

Roden

you can hammer if you'd like

@Mod, can we get a night that is as fast as possible, please

?

yeah i didnt unvote

[Taly]

I think pisskop's reaction to the fake guilty was bad, and I think it might be because he knew there was no cop.

VOTE: SS
Let's kill this person next

im honestly down with this VOTE: Something_Scum <3

VOTE: Something_Smart Just to make sure it is a valid vote

[Taly]

honestly that makes so much sense tbh

[Taly]

hehe i kind of lied about my

gob

confidence, it was mainly just a battle i didnt want and wanted to eliminate

gamma

with as minimal resistance as possible

sometimes i can be underhanded too

[Taly]

YAY FUCK YEAH

[Taly]

good game! it was nice playing with yall

[Taly]

ali

is really good, coming from someone who has hydra'd with em before

[Taly]

*bats eyelashes*

But yeah this was a fun end and one of the few times town ended scum with a power wipe

Not too often I get that Synergy with townies that I did with

Black/Ali

that wrecks scum