Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[gob]

t bone and enchant need to give 50% more effort

[Enchant]

t bone and enchant need to give 50% more effort

0+50%=0%

[Doctor Drew]

DkKoba replaces JacksonVirgo

nvm, I have made an error and put JacksonVirgo on replacement before the prod expired, and they are back now, so they keep the slot.

Apologies for the inconvenience for all involved.

Well we definitely dodged that bullet

I will be back very shortly, about to go on break at work

[Black]

Well we definitely dodged that bullet

[gob]

t bone and enchant need to give 50% more effort

0+50%=0%

Listen Enchant. I like you but i want to win. My pride is important to me. If you are town, you need to be a team player. If youre mafia, then do whatever you want.

You can join my town core actually. Would you like to?

[Ranger]

Ranger you seem kinda unconcerned about the wagon against you. Just trying to continue to hunt and pressure. It reminds me a lot of how Python responded to pushes.

As long as players are sheeping Dannflor, I see no reason to be alarmed by votes on me.

Given Dannflor explicitly believed I was town, sheeping him means the votes on me never get an elimination.

If you’re interested in an elimination disobeying Dannflor, I’m happy to engage with you; I’m working under the assumption the majority of players here today are of a different perspective.

This is perhaps poorly worded. Let me simplify.

Either you want to follow Dannflor's desires, or you don’t.
If you want to follow Dannflor, I am off the table. I am under the impression the majority of players want to follow his wishes, and Dannflor was explicitly against a D2 Ranger lim.

If you want to disregard Dannflor's desires, I’ll happily let you, and would love to interest you in a Naerys elimination. Dannflor didn’t properly assess her presence on UsesPython, so she is the scum he missed.

I’m under the impression the majority of players want to follow Dannflor's reads. As such, I’m in no danger, and my desire for a Naerys elimination is unobtainable today. It’s why my Naerys vote was only there until after I cased her.

If I am mistaken, then I will shift gears and happily clarify why Naerys is transparently aligned with UsesPython.

As previously stated, I’m a casual tryhard. I don’t waste effort on something unnecessary. If the majority are sheeping Dannflor, then I need not push Naerys beyond my case nor defend myself.

[Ranger]

DkKoba replaces JacksonVirgo

Here's to hoping the Naerys buddy is the light slot, not the Ausuka slot, because I weep for you otherwise.

[Naerys]

If you want to disregard Dannflor's desires, I’ll happily let you, and would love to interest you in a Naerys elimination. Dannflor didn’t properly assess her presence on UsesPython, so she is the scum he missed.

part of me kinda wants to get limmed and then spit to ur face after you see my flip

[Ranger]

If youre town then you need to give up your weird ideas of Dannflor and following him.

Tell that to the players who started today insisting they would. (I’m not the one advocating for sheeping Dannflor so you're calling

their

logic fake.)

I disagree, and believe myself in the minority for not blindly sheeping Dannflor.

If I am actually the majority, then I have reason to return to pushing Naerys.

[Ranger]

There’s numerous posts I’ve skipped addressing; when not mobile, I’ll tackle them.

[Black]

If you want to disregard Dannflor's desires, I’ll happily let you, and would love to interest you in a Naerys elimination. Dannflor didn’t properly assess her presence on UsesPython, so she is the scum he missed.

part of me kinda wants to get limmed and then spit to ur face after you see my flip

Yeah this feels like something town would say

[Enchant]

t bone and enchant need to give 50% more effort

0+50%=0%

Listen Enchant. I like you but i want to win. My pride is important to me. If you are town, you need to be a team player. If youre mafia, then do whatever you want.

You can join my town core actually. Would you like to?

Nah.

You join mine.

[Doctor Drew]

Spoiler: Drew ISO

Drew's first few posts are jokes

There's an interaction with python in 86, 88 and 89 that feels strange. Python defends Drew by saying people can't scumcase him, Drew asks why not, and then python responds to him but is talking like they aren't responding to him with the whole "scumreading Drew is like a fine wine". I'm not sure why they don't say "scumreading

you

is like a fine wine." It's a weird perspective for python to have. Not super compelling partner evidence but if python was wary of interacting with their partner directly then they might have subconsciously used this verbiage

@Drew what was the townread on python in 369 about?

Drew invokes python in 377. This doesn't really feel partnered. Maybe if the plan was to interact a bunch for theatre I guess. It feels like a lot of Drew's posting is about Python around this point in the game

385 another open defense of python

391 joking with python

472 invoking python again. The amount of times Drew has talked to or mentioned python is starting to seem sus

I thought 516 was weird when I read it and I still think it's weird. Drew is completely misrepping me here, and I don't think he ever responded to me when I called him out on it

677 Drew continues his pressure on gob. I like dave's 660

@Drew what was your scumread on gob based on? I scumread him too at the time but my reasons were because of how he was interacting with my slot. I don't see any reasons for you to be suspicious of him here but maybe I'm missing it

I actually like 704 and it's the towniest post so far. It feels like Drew is thinking about the players on a deeper than surface level here

765 the threat to python to snap vote them feels bad

778 back to Gob when gob's wagon was tied 3-3 with python's. Could be scum trying to manipulate the wagons in the scum teams favor here

Drew gets pressure and switches back to Dann immediately in 786. What. This reeks of Drew knowing that going back to gob and making his wagon overtake python's was scummy

Drew's reasons for not voting python in 1216 are believable but they could still come from scum

1219 a little WIFOM here. I would like to look at Drew scumgames to see if this is actually true. Off the top of my head I know he didn't bus kyouko in a recent game together. He did try to bus StD in Wilson 7p, so there is some truth here

1272 - @Drew, does python's flip not make you feel any better about gob?

I'm not getting much in Drew's 1v1 with the monkey. Drew feels a little defensive but that's about it, probably NAI

tl;dr - Still unsure about Drew here but I have a much better feel for his slot than I did before. I would like Drew to answer some of these questions

Black, the 1272 was about me thinking HEM was trying to push gob at that time

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ranger is a boring ass flip, and we already know that Python didn't capitalize on it, nor would it be likely that scum try to set themselves up for chain elimination.

The large wall of text gives us a good framing of how Ranger behaved yesterday and the thought process behind that. It makes it believable. Unless scum!Ranger kept extensive notes on her town!character and had the master plan that eventually they would try and claim mason on Python, but that seems absurd. Scum wants to be as flexible as possible, especially when one of them is about to be eliminated. Python wasn't trying to die - they were counting votes on Black and STD's E-1 on them put a stop on that.

Shame on this wagon.

[Save The Dragons]

Hi

Did you read that wall of text

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes, but only secretly because I didn't want Ranger to think she's better than me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

JacksonVirgo, please make a comeback. We miss you! I don't want to eliminate your replacement - I want to eliminate

you

.

[Save The Dragons]

It is downright bizarre

And creative

It looks made up how things are twisted to fit her "worldview"

Her being town requires her to have kept detailed notes anyway unless she literally went back through the game and tried to recreate every single emotion and feeling she had about every post she put on her giant wall

To me it looks like she's trying to words her way out of the fact she made a mistake claiming python was a mason yesterday

I feel like she's hoping the fact that she has meta of fake claiming as town makes people believe she's just up to her old bag of tricks here

I feel like she is getting away with being openly wolfy because people don't believe a wolf would do what she is doing but I think she is relying on that as well

So I am good where I am Mr. Monkey

[humaneatingmonkey]

Her being town requires her to have kept detailed notes anyway

unless she literally went back through the game and tried to recreate every single emotion and feeling she had about every post she put on her giant wall

Yeah, that's what it looks like to me.

You think it's bizarre and creative, but I could see how Ranger would see the banter and quips from Naerys and Python as open mason talk. It even tracks that Ranger behaved the way she did with that belief in mind, as seen from her vote patterns.

Why would Ranger be doing all this effort, when they won't even read my fucking posts? No one was trying to eliminate them at daystart. It was needless to "word her way out" as scum. But as town, it tracks that she just really wanted to push Naerys out because she felt stumped.

I'm not saying your take on Ranger is impossible, but it's unlikely. It's just as likely that Ranger as a player had a solve and the solve was wrong.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Either way, if you really believe Ranger is scum, I'm not stopping you from pursuing that. It's just boring and unproductive IMO. There are a lot of slots we still have zero info on.

[gob]

Ranger is a boring ass flip, and we already know that Python didn't capitalize on it, nor would it be likely that scum try to set themselves up for chain elimination.

The large wall of text gives us a good framing of how Ranger behaved yesterday and the thought process behind that. It makes it believable. Unless scum!Ranger kept extensive notes on her town!character and had the master plan that eventually they would try and claim mason on Python, but that seems absurd. Scum wants to be as flexible as possible, especially when one of them is about to be eliminated. Python wasn't trying to die - they were counting votes on Black and STD's E-1 on them put a stop on that.

Shame on this wagon.

Hmm, I actually do agree with this. Ranger is kind of a boring lim. The way the wagon is currently moving, it's likely (like 60% independent of alignment statistics) that she is town. HOWEVER, even if she is scum here, given that the wagon moved so fast with no resistance, the scum is clearly bussing. Therefore it's not really beneficial for us, the town, to go along with the mafia strat and bus. Which I am not saying the mafia ARE bussing here, mind you, but theoretically if they were this would cover that base.

If we lim Ranger here, then we're in kind of a weird position because of how the pools went day 1. If the mafia was on Day 1 Python lim, which I suspect there probably was one, then we're gonna have a tough time catching the final wolf if mafia team busses here today.

Ranger doesn't really break the game down into smaller pieces. I think we don't let her make it to endgame, but don't lim her today too.

[gob]

UNVOTE: Ranger

[Black]

I think Jackson is scum, and I think the Grand Scum Plan was to get me eliminated while I was on V/LA

We saw python openly crunching the numbers on gob. They didn't have enough votes for whatever reason so the plan shifted to me, and it happened right after Jackson replaced in Sunday night. Jackson and python were both around Sunday night so they could have easily been cooking up something

Jackson's main reason for thinking I was scum was that I was pushing gob and not doing much else. Weak reasonings, especially considering he was strictly talking about my behavior in the first 24 hours of the game. He then proceeded to do exactly what he scumread me for: push me and not do much else

These were all the posts Jackson made calling me scummy and trying to recruit others to join while I was gone:

Spoiler: Jackson's confidence that I'm scum

I'm just gonna blast through it, I don't have time to be slow and in depth. I can clarify after the fact it people want it.

30 Black feels overly stiff.
90 getting pinged by what I would consider aNAI post? @Black if you remember this far back, can you place what pinged you here. You're also referring to Naerys but you're referencing a post by STD?

Ah you clarified that, makes more sense. I don't have thoughts either way about this now

95 gob being a pro gamer. If Ganski is a wolf, I really think Gob is Town. This also makes me feel better about my read but I'll try not to conf bias myself into a hole. Them following up on the read in 103 is also a really good sign to me.

106 Black immediately voting, I hope there's good reasoning for that because it looks kinda wack. The reasoning they gave in 123 was lacklustre. It feels like a chainsaw, if that's the right term. Unsure. Although their "more votes on gob please" feels pure (132). The read itself doesn't feel pure though, it feels greatly exaggerated for what it is to try and push them.

At this point in the catchup (as of 155). It'd be pretty hilarious but GTH the solve is Black, Ganski, Dannflor.

Ganski jumping onto Gob in 188 also is like not unexpected given my head canon. Ranger having Black/Dannflor in the scum-reads in 191 is a fun one, makes me feel nice.

Holy shit they're just spamming tierlists.

Black back on the "yo les do gob, lesduit". That's like majority of their posts it seems like at this point (270). Like literally every post of theirs up to 318 seems to have a gob push in it more likely than not.

Black asked why Gob town-reads her, he anwers and I don't see Black responding to Gob. Will post another thing if this was found later but this is just as bad if she didn't respond back. Cuz that would mean it was likely asked in a way to try and trap Gob even further but couldn't see much to work with. A few pages past and haven't seen it, if I missed it please point it out to me.

I aint reading that wallpost by Dann in 398

625 T-Bone "Yes but the tone of that question is meh" in regards to Dannflor I completely agree with. It felt antagonistic.


Spewed this out as fast as I could. Enjoy

Black is probably the most optimal elim from my reads. But cuz I wanna be a pro gamer and hero-shot a wolf immediately upon repping in I also want ganski.

I want either Black or Ganski. Either or I don't really care.
Python is a pretty lacklustre wagon.
Gob is Town
T-bone probably Town

You're all gettin' played fr fr

I am confident at least one of Black/Ganski is wolf tho

Deadline's coming up, can we get a kill pool from everyone in case there's a cool flashwagon hiding somewhere?

Cook/Dann/T-Bone/gob

Ganski/Black/Dannflor

I guess you gotta go then VOTE: usesPython

VOTE: Black

VOTE: Dannflor

Nah I hate that post from Drew

what's the case against the three top wagons

someone young, beautiful, intelligent, and charming talk me into voting one of them

I'd rather we move away from them all and go Black/Ganski

then why vote Dannflor, that's insane

The other two aren't happening, Drew dropped off of a Dann read (who was my third in my hero solve) which made me want to be there even more just because it felt off

why

Ganski feels like they're going with the flow of the gamestate rather than pushing their own reads. Their latest read tierlist had all the harder people to push at the top (and it was heavily top-sided) and then all the general easy to push people at the bottom. That read absolutely awful to me. For someone that appears to be very socially built different (for lack of a better term), they're going with what seems to be easy. I don't like that

Black felt stiff in the early game and then at a particular point she hard-locked onto Gob and did not let go throughout the entire game. Like a crocodile death roll, just constantly barraging them. It felt like they were seeing Gob for the value the push would have rather than thinking they're wolf and solving. There's one particular point that I am seeing the most for this and that's the fact that she asked Gob a question, Gob answered in what I deemed to be a pretty good response and Black proceeded to just not respond back at all. It feels like she's fishing for reasons to call gob out as scummy. Also of course Gob was pushing Ganski and it felt like Black did a good ol' chainsaw (I still don't know if that's the right term) and just hard pushed Gob because of that but that's a read for if one of them flips red, to evaluate the other.

just constantly barraging them

Like I would say about 90% of what I recall of Black is just trying to find reasons to swing a wagon onto Gob in particular

what's the case against Dann?

I'm not as convinced it's Dann as I am on Black/Ganski. I feel people are treating him in weird ways, the middle of the pack read between both my other SRs make me think that they're just putting them there to "distance". I also hated how he was talking with T-Bone as of the last 10 pages or so. It felt he was trying to rile up rather than do anything actually productive.

I want neither though

VOTE: Black

Vote and find out

And I have a pretty good track record reading her

Yeah, I'm sure you know I can't rely on that

Can you look over what I've said against her and tell me what you disagree with instead?

I’m ready to thunderdome Black

Why not look elsewhere JacksonVirgo?

I am, I’m just choosing to push Black as I’m like fairly convinced I’m a god and that I’m right.

Why not look elsewhere JacksonVirgo?

I am, I’m just choosing to push Black as I’m like fairly convinced I’m a god and that I’m right.

Im pretty decent at reading Black and i disagree. I have no problem going back over Black tomorrow i guess. But today she clearly aint the lim

Good for you

VOTE: Black

We’re getting there folks

I don't think Jacksons' confidence in scum!me is natural. It doesn't make sense for Jackson to want to thunderdome me for behavior that

he

is displaying. Jackson's push was part of the scum agenda. He made the weak case and recruited people to it, and it steamrolled from there. They managed to get me to 5 votes while I was gone Sunday night and Monday morning. When I came back and voted for python, Jackson accused me of self preservation, something he townread python for. Yeah python was doing it out in the open, but mine was tied into voting for someone I already leaned scum on. Jackson was just trying to discredit me here because I came back and messed with their plan

These are python's quotes during that time. You can tell they were planning what wagon to push, they were just doing it in the open to try and get townread. They even tried to get Dann going together before me

Spoiler: python's thoughts

Deadline's coming up, can we get a kill pool from everyone in case there's a cool flashwagon hiding somewhere?

Cook/Dann/T-Bone/gob

VOTE: Dann

flashwagon part 2: electric boogaloo

The saddest part about this day is we're probably dead here anyways cause the only viable CW is gob and that only gets to 6 votes with light/Black/Ranger/Python/Drew/Dave since gob/Naerys/Dann/HEM/STD/T-Bone/JV all townread gob

How much will is there for a Black wagon? Python/JV/Ranger, who else?

VOTE: Black

How much will is there for a Black wagon? Python/JV/Ranger, who else?

T-Bone (Black in scumlean)
STD (Black is a gob voter)

that's 5

open letter to light/dave/drew to join us on the Black wagon since the alternative is a Python lim

I feel like the third is someone like T-Bone who was monitoring the situation and declared intent to hammer as soon as my wagon tied python's at 5 votes

That's my hero solve

[Black]

More votes on Jackson please

[humaneatingmonkey]

I second the motion.