Mini Theme 2330 - A Questionable Almost-Normal Game - Postgame

[Alianna]

2.24

Votecount 2.24

Titus (E-2): Ranger, Black, JacksonVirgo, light_ganski
Black (2): Doctor Drew, Titus
light_ganski (2): Hu Tao, Political Clout
Ranger (1): usesPython

Not Voting (2): ketchup777, Enchant

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-14 01:04:13).

Mod Notes: The combined mod ISO is here.

[usesPython]

Ranger was just waiting for people to start seeing me as town. She's wanting the whole day to focus on me. Like uses said, she's better than this. Ideally, people should have let me defend myself from Ranger's bogus case but still.

Uses, do you think there's any possibility of tunneled Ranger?

The problem with the tunneled town!Ranger theory is that normally when she's tunneled she starts twisting dayplay in the worst light possible while mech stays fairly solid (though minimal if it's not necessary). Here we're seeing the opposite; With the exception of the "no less vs at least" part if you take the mech at face value the dayplay argument is pretty solid. The problem is the mech being twisted with false equivalences causes the dayplay argument to fall apart, it's just the reverse of what kind of mistake we'd expect to see if Ranger was tunneled

[Doctor Drew]

Ya know what though, starting to get a town vibe from Titus now

[Doctor Drew]

And kinda a not so good vibe from Python

[Political Clout]

And kinda a not so good vibe from Python

tell me more tell me more.

[Ranger]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

[Ranger]

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

Those statements are logically identical.
No fewer than three = three or more
At least three = three or more

Word usage translates to different implied meaning. You can state the same thing in two different ways and convey entirely different meanings despite the thing not changing. You can say "I townread everyone except 3 players" and "I don't see town in 3 players". The two are technically conveying the same information, yet the way they are conveyed carries a different implication.

At least 3 would've left more than 3 as the possibility, not a guarantee;
No fewer than 3 equates to an implication of

far more than

, which gives away Titus knew there were far more than 3.

[Ranger]

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

You are focusing on the specific setup example provided rather than the actual issue.

Titus as town would have no way of knowing the setup. Titus as town would have no way of knowing she wasn't the last living investigative. There's thousands, millions, of possible setups Alianna could create where there's precisely three Cops, facing a scumteam which has answers to it.

Why did Titus out despite the risk she was the last investigative

? Especially given Titus has a strong habit of dealing in subtleties, her claim indicates she knew there were more Cops.

[Ranger]

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why couldn't this have been a valid setup?

Spoiler: Hypothetical Setup

This is a Valid Normal setup

Town Disloyal Cop
Town Cop
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon x2

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

this one I can get behind, however it’s possible they had 2 ascetic mafia or something vs 3 cops

with some ascetic townies thrown in for good measure

Again, try not to miss the issue of criticizing the exact setup I proposed and go on a pipeline of hypothetical extra setups.

The point isn't Titus claimed despite the possibility of

(specific hypothetical setup ADFBGEGDP)

;
The point is Titus claimed despite how

there were countless setups where she could have been outing as the last investigative

.

We know now those countless hypothetical setups don't exist, with hindsight of knowing the setup.

How did Titus,

at the time she claimed

, know those countless hypotheticals didn't exist?

You can have any number of setups with only 3 Cops; a town-Titus

wouldn't know the setup

enough to know we weren't in a 3-Cop setup.

[ketchup777]

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

You are focusing on the specific setup example provided rather than the actual issue.

Titus as town would have no way of knowing the setup. Titus as town would have no way of knowing she wasn't the last living investigative. There's thousands, millions, of possible setups Alianna could create where there's precisely three Cops, facing a scumteam which has answers to it.

Why did Titus out despite the risk she was the last investigative

? Especially given Titus has a strong habit of dealing in subtleties, her claim indicates she knew there were more Cops.

In response to this and the linguistics analysis of 'no fewer than' i understand and I back it. I’ve been out today but hopefully I can get out my outstanding end-of-day-1 questions (very late, I know) and then once they’ve been dealt with I’ll send Titus over the Styx to Hades

[Ranger]

Ranger was just waiting for people to start seeing me as town.

You know better than to conflate life circumstances with strategic planning. I've been planning to deliver on this slip from the moment I spotted it; life prevented me until now.

[usesPython]

There's thousands, millions, of possible setups Alianna could create where there's precisely three Cops, facing a scumteam which has answers to it.

We disagree but we'll wait for Titus to start responding before we elaborate

[Titus]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

Still this words about nothing. Everyone and their brother was claiming cop and is a cop. This is chopping a hair and it doesn't make any sense.

Right now, at least one of you and uses is scum here.

[Titus]

Ranger was just waiting for people to start seeing me as town.

You know better than to conflate life circumstances with strategic planning. I've been planning to deliver on this slip from the moment I spotted it; life prevented me until now.

Right. Life prevented it, despite responding to all the other times I asked. Ranger, at least own being manipulative.

[Titus]

I still can't even parse Ranger's thing. Is she saying I assumed three cops exactly?

There's millions of possible setups but we act on likely.

At least 3 claims is likely but it was logical given the info we had all town are cops.

[Titus]

VLA this weekend

[ketchup777]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

Still this words about nothing. Everyone and their brother was claiming cop and is a cop. This is chopping a hair and it doesn't make any sense.

Right now, at least one of you and uses is scum here.

why is at least one of Ranger or uses scum

[ketchup777]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

Also please respond to this when you can Titus

Titus and Drew are oh so good at dodging questions. It won’t work tho. Please say Titus why Lap‘s post made you post 'Wtf?'.

[Titus]

I went Occam's.

Ranger, what do you think of my pool?

[Titus]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

Still this words about nothing. Everyone and their brother was claiming cop and is a cop. This is chopping a hair and it doesn't make any sense.

Right now, at least one of you and uses is scum here.

why is at least one of Ranger or uses scum

If Ranger is town, scum uses wants a t v t AND cut me off from answering.

[Titus]

Yeah, it's a slightly cursed role. I 100% believe there's both a miller and roleblocker out there so I can't trust any results

Wtf?

why did this make you u wtf titus

Also please respond to this when you can Titus

Titus and Drew are oh so good at dodging questions. It won’t work tho. Please say Titus why Lap‘s post made you post 'Wtf?'.

Lap was suggesting cop but a cop that couldn't trust themselves. I didn't know what to do with it and posted off the cuff.

[ketchup777]

ok sure

current thoughts on Drew?

[usesPython]

If Ranger is town, scum uses wants a t v t AND cut me off from answering.

"scum!Python wants a tvt by defending E-1!Titus" is a pretty nuclear take

[Doctor Drew]

And kinda a not so good vibe from Python

tell me more tell me more.

I just get a vibe that python is working to actively protect Ranger(and in turn push Titus), and I feel like Titus just showed herself as town as well.

I have been going back and forth on Titus/Ranger, but this feels right finally

[Black]

I kinda just want to unapologetically sheep Ranger here