Mini Normal 2333 | woah that's a lot of 3's | It's Gypover !

[yessiree]

Hey

[yessiree]

No U

VOTE: penguin power

[yessiree]

ArrestMeThen.png

[yessiree]

I'm innocent, Mr.space police sir

[yessiree]

VOTE: Greeting

why not help build a wagon?

Why not join his wagon?

[yessiree]

The lack of wagons aggravates me

Idk what y'all are yapping about

[yessiree]

Yes, scums are afraid of wagons

[yessiree]

The lack of wagons aggravates me

Idk what y'all are yapping about

Then why are you voting alone?

Do as I say not as I do

[yessiree]

VOTE: Political Clout

[yessiree]

What's making you choose PC, Dave?

PC's vote.

And?

Why so many questions random nurse

[yessiree]

The lack of wagons aggravates me

Idk what y'all are yapping about

So, what, you're wanting some wagons to develop?

Sounds a bit suss to me.

Eh don't really agree with this. Early wagons can be illuminating in the sense that it can help glean info based on how people play around said wagons. Why do you think there sus?

Would say Brian Skies gets some town points for pointing this out in their 84 UNVOTE:

To me it just seemed like an eagerness ti get a wagon going, to get someone eliminated that isn't them. Obviously wagons have to happen for the game ti progress but being eager ti get them going just hit different.

you're reading too much between the lines

[yessiree]

Hmm. I have no gut reads so far

Let's lim Hu Tao

Edit: @Nurse, you were correct to infer that I was eager to get some wagons going, but the rest was stretching it

[yessiree]

personal pet peeve but could yall put giant quote walls in a spoiler

ty ty

[yessiree]

I think y'all are putting too much emphasis on the justification behind votes when most of them are just vibes and gut

the game is still in the figuring-out-each-others phase so I'm not really expecting any vote to be based on a solid foundation. That's not to say I'm not looking for anything though, as for what I'm looking for... I'm not telling you right now

[yessiree]

Spoiler: like this

personal pet peeve but could yall put giant quote walls in a spoiler

ty ty

Sorry how do you do that?

[yessiree]

VOTE: Hu Tao

why so defensive

[yessiree]

I don't agree with you, let's fight

[yessiree]

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

[yessiree]

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

[yessiree]

I think y'all are putting too much emphasis on the justification behind votes when most of them are just vibes and gut

the game is still in the figuring-out-each-others phase so I'm not really expecting any vote to be based on a solid foundation. That's not to say I'm not looking for anything though, as for what I'm looking for... I'm not telling you right now

I normally consider logical and well-justified arguments as a sign of effort to resolve the game. Surely this does not mean that mafia cannot fake them, but I am far less likely to look at someone who is evidently trying to get somewhere even in the fighting-out-each-other phase.

Not sure what point you're trying to make here...

[yessiree]

Spoiler:

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet

Come now, it's not realistic for mafia to kowtow to everyone's townie standards at once. I think all of us here are different enough in what we look for in order for that to be the case, so honesty is almost certainly the best policy. Personally, I think the towniest thing someone can do is defend a person who's currently unpopular with a well-reasoned argument

what if they never get up to speed? where do you draw the line? I disagree with this on a more playstyle level, being proactive (pushing and poking) is always better than being reactive (waiting for mafia to make a mistake)

if you think everyone is different in what AI-indicative behaviors they look for, I don't see why you would have an issue with me poking and prodding people? since seeing how they react to pressure is exactly how I like make reads early on

am not sure what you mean by the last part, are you saying Hu Tao is unpopular and anyone who defends her is townie?

[yessiree]

Spoiler: quote wall

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet
-SNIP-

Would you say that this behavior is AI though? Like do you think it's more just ineffective or more indicative of scum intentions in this instance?

I’m not experienced enough to speak in absolutes here, but it absolutely can be. Prodding readless people this early into D1 is a super LHF way to male yourself look like you’re doing something solvy, which benefits scum

what makes you think Hu Tao a LHF? She's deffo not a LHF, she's a more of a wasp nest if i say so myself

[yessiree]

Spoiler: hider soft for prosperity

are you

hiding

something smileyman?

Eh, just engaging in some light-hearted banter tis all.

I think I believe you maybe tbd. but are you

hiding

something?

it was yeah.

why? trying to be my fren? or trying to be anyones fren? or trying to be everyone's fren?

Would you consider it scummy if I was trying to do the above though. If so, why?

I would think you are

hiding

a pr. your entrance suggests eagerness your consecutives posts suggests stealth and trying to blend in. Your deflection suggests slight annoyance at me.

[yessiree]

that was not a crumb tho, I think it was a straight up claim

[yessiree]

maybe he's actually a weak hider and got really excited, so latched onto the first opportunity to soft

[yessiree]

Is weak variation not the normal version of hider?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... lar_Normal

weak should be part of "regular", but Imma leave it at that

[yessiree]

Why am I town

You haven't posted much but your content has been consistently substantive so far, which I think is a towny behavior pattern early-game. You don't seem bothered by people voting you, which is also towny, and we're also mindmelding quite a bit so there might be a bit of bias there

Last part isn't linked to Hu Tao at all, I think you may have missed the point of that.

As for the LHF thing I just disagree. You can't become a wasp's nest as a D1 lowposter, that kind of status is reserved for high-volume people who are acting weird imo. I know a lot of people are suspicious of early lowposters by default, and I am too sometimes, but I see it as an unhealthy habit that I want to mitigate.

I said she's a wasp nest because by poking her I've brought the heat on me

But I'm curious why you think lowposting and being substantive is town!AI though. Imo only scum bothers appearing be logically consistent for optics sake, while townies can be contradicting and all over the place. So personally I don't find this argument particularly compelling

You claim she's not bothered by people voting her - last I checked I'm the only one voting her and she has immediately discredited and OMGUS'ed my push, so this doesn't actually track either.

[yessiree]

Spoiler: something very scary inside

uncooked macaronis scare me

[yessiree]

MF THEY LOOK RAW

[yessiree]

Just on this page, I see a claim of hider but I don't necessarily believe it. Different roles can fake claim. For instance, a doctor may want to fake being a hider particularly if weak.

I'm so lost as to why someone claimed

Also i'm pretty sure no one's explicitly claimed yet btw, Yessiree has theorized that PC claimed Hider, though they haven't confirmed or denied that yet.

Spoiler: hider soft for prosperity

are you

hiding

something smileyman?

Eh, just engaging in some light-hearted banter tis all.

I think I believe you maybe tbd. but are you

hiding

something?

it was yeah.

why? trying to be my fren? or trying to be anyones fren? or trying to be everyone's fren?

Would you consider it scummy if I was trying to do the above though. If so, why?

I would think you are

hiding

a pr. your entrance suggests eagerness your consecutives posts suggests stealth and trying to blend in. Your deflection suggests slight annoyance at me.

that was not a crumb tho, I think it was a straight up claim

also also for posterity sake, IMO PC probs shouldn't answer this right now.

Anyways see you later

in hindsight I prolly shouldn't have put it out there like that, but I was reading the back and forth between Brian and PC and it was the premise to scumread PC from Brian, and I had thought that was not the case

[yessiree]

htinking Brian is town here; gives off the energy from our last game where he was town and how confrontational he was. I also think he would know to have better optics as scum whereas town he would care less

liking my vote still, think I got something there. I find it a little odd how so many people seemed ready to defend Hu Tao. Could either be Hu's partner, or TMIing she's town. Think there's a good chance at hitting scum in that group

[yessiree]

I find it interesting all of the people that are voting me are people I don't know. All the people that have experience with me aren't voting me.

There's not really anything I can glean from this alignment-wise. It's just an observation I wanted to point out.

get generation gapped, guy

[yessiree]

VOTE: Political Clout

[yessiree]

i mean, my comment was more stating that titus' reason wasn't valid so not sure why you're quoting me

That's not at all how it reads to anyone.

how does it read to you?

[yessiree]

yes penguin corrected her but i do not think he was echoing her sentiment

[yessiree]

now that we're on the same page, got any new revelation from this revelation?

[yessiree]

"everyone" "gaslighting" is an oxymoron

[yessiree]

beat the prod

will be catching up today at work

[yessiree]

what

both but to your question titus

what a weird thing to double down on...you ok?

hardly his fault when you're mysterious like the dark side of the moon

[yessiree]

ITT everyone is gaslighting me.

What do you think that term means, and how does it apply to "everyone"?

Where are you going with this?

Finding out what, or who, you think is gaslighting.

I wanna talk about brian but I will go back and look at it. from the the three that talked about it iirc it was yessirree. Their vote on me needs explanation too. they have hardly commented on my slot. they hard town read brian not from meta but from what I perceive as a rule of thumb on what scum might do I don't buy it.

Spoiler:

So, what, you're wanting some wagons to develop?

Sounds a bit suss to me.

Wagons are a valuable tool for hunting scum.

yessiree seems town to me.

+scum

VOTE: brian

Be back this afternoon

this is your premise for scumreading brian, i found it pretty disingenuous, but it was whatever, chalked it off to early game shenanigans

but you've pretty much tunnelled on this read throughout the entire game, like everything hinges on this brian scumread of yours, and that doesn't feel like a genuine townie mindset. it feels more like scum pressured to "lock in" his scumread for appearances sake

[yessiree]

UNVOTE:

I have reached the conclusion that if Brian is scum, then he is an inconceivably bad player. I am not ready to make that assumption.

you haven't seen my scum game then

[yessiree]

Straightflush/yessireee prob has at least 1 scum

Okay I'm going back to my read of Brian might be scum if Yessir is town. So I'm OK with voting out Brian

VOTE: brian

UNVOTE:

Actually nvm for now

this makes sense

[yessiree]

I think Hu Tao just living life on fast forward

[yessiree]

Conclusion: I don't think Brian's PC read is real. I feel like if they were voting PC for AI behavior specifically, they'd have been more likely to allude to that at some point before their argument, and their interaction with PC before they stated the reason they voted there doesn't feel like it was approached in the manner I'd expect if they harbored a preexisting scumlean/scumread of the slot. This feels like it's a justification made in post in response to PC pressuring them to me.

interesting cause thats how i feel about PC in that whole back and forth between them

i think we just have fundamental differences in what we consider scummy/townie, but part of my townraed on brian also comes from the last game so theres a bit of meta involved. Things like being confrontational and assertive early on, being critical of the gamestate as time goes on, etc

[yessiree]

Straightflush/yessireee prob has at least 1 scum

Okay I'm going back to my read of Brian might be scum if Yessir is town. So I'm OK with voting out Brian

VOTE: brian

UNVOTE:

Actually nvm for now

this makes sense

How do you figure? I'm finding HT's reads increasingly hard to follow.

oh, i dropped this /s

[yessiree]

what

both but to your question titus

what a weird thing to double down on...you ok?

hardly his fault when you're mysterious like the dark side of the moon

?

Literally was quite explicit as to the meaning.

Not you too ...

I need to start marking my posts with /s

[yessiree]

Conclusion: I don't think Brian's PC read is real. I feel like if they were voting PC for AI behavior specifically, they'd have been more likely to allude to that at some point before their argument, and their interaction with PC before they stated the reason they voted there doesn't feel like it was approached in the manner I'd expect if they harbored a preexisting scumlean/scumread of the slot. This feels like it's a justification made in post in response to PC pressuring them to me.

interesting cause thats how i feel about PC in that whole back and forth between them

i think we just have fundamental differences in what we consider scummy/townie, but

part of my townraed on brian also comes from the last game so theres a bit of meta involved

. Things like being confrontational and assertive early on, being critical of the gamestate as time goes on, etc

Can you post that game?

viewtopic.php?t=92350

[yessiree]

Straightflush/yessireee prob has at least 1 scum

Okay I'm going back to my read of Brian might be scum if Yessir is town. So I'm OK with voting out Brian

VOTE: brian

UNVOTE:

Actually nvm for now

this makes sense

It does. In my mind.

[yessiree]

the speed of the Greeting wagon makes me think he's probably not scum here

[yessiree]

alright, you've convinced me

[yessiree]

who?

[yessiree]

Which wagon so far has had the most resistance?

This is a strange question to ask as your first real involvement with the game in forever. What’s the intent here?

I haven't been involved with this game because I'm actually busy. If you want to try and use that against me I will basically devour you alive. I'm trying to get back into this game because I have a rare pocket of nothing happening on the hospital floor, so kindly back off and let me play.

Now, when I ask which wagon has the most resistance the reason I ask that is because it's USUALLY a tell on who may be Town or Scum. It also helps me get back into the game, in general, when I've been off for a long while and am lost on how to get back into the game.

well iirc your wagon had the most resistance

what do u think about that?

[yessiree]

the speed of the Greeting wagon makes me think he's probably not scum here

admittedly had slight paranoia creeped in for a sec myself, though I think given the amount of time left, it's semi-inevitable that new wagons are going to coalesce fast here so it feels NAI to me.

Think the better metric to judge it on would be judging based on who hopped on the wagon and seeing if motivations make sense, do you see any inconsistencies there?

it's a combination of sheeping your read on greeting + other wagons were stale, I don't think a lot can be gleaned from that

[yessiree]

Aight, Greeting can go ahead and claim

[yessiree]

VOTE: Greeting

let's just get this over with

would rather not let apathy linger

[yessiree]

HEY, you forgot SOMEONE.

join the club

[yessiree]

Why do you feel good about me?

she feels least good about you

[yessiree]

And bad end of day

how so?

[yessiree]

Ehh, it coulda gone either way. Greeting was a nothing slot.

I don't have that kind of patience

[yessiree]

And I'd do it agane!!

[yessiree]

I'll fight all y'all

That hammer was town

That flip was not part of the script

[yessiree]

Town

Brian Skies
KayJayQueue
PenguinPower
Random Nurse
BlackStar
davesaz
Titus
StraightFlush
Political Clout
Hu Tao

Scum

Anyway, where my head is at. I'm ok with limming any 1 of the bottom 3

[yessiree]

she's in the null tier

i'll sleep on it...

[yessiree]

One question at a time buddy

[yessiree]

Why would you hammer too fast for Greeting to respond after complaining that the wagon is too fast?

he wasn't going to claim because he requested for replacement? I know we shouldn't be speculating about circumstances relating to that, but since you went there, I will note that he was given plenty of time to claim and chose not

and that convinced me of a likely scum flip

[yessiree]

Why did you hammer Greeting after heavily shading the wagon based on its speed?

it was the only option that had enough consensus. Brian vs PC has been deadlocked at E-2 and didn't look like they would have enough support to push either one over the edge. I didn't see any other viable choices, and even assuming the replacement saves the slot, with 18 hours left any other people you wagon were going to be compromises anyway

I'm impatient, and hammering is fun

[yessiree]

Unfortunately, I do not have time to contribute any more for now. I will try to pop in before end of day.

This was his last post and it was before being e-1 at any point. He clearly said he didn’t have much time to contribute. We have no idea of knowing when he asked to be replaced out. So to make all those assumptions seems either convenient or reckless.

yea but, it wouldn't have taken that much time to make one post to claim

[yessiree]

A wagon on straightflish? I see this as an absolute win

VOTE: straightflush

[yessiree]

A wagon on straightflish? I see this as an absolute win

VOTE: straightflush

How do you feel about your two stronger scumreads not being in thread at all?

I feel... Indifferent

[yessiree]

Strange? What about it?

[yessiree]

Strange.

Would you like to explain your read on me further? Clearly your reaction indicates that you've been harboring it for a bit.

If you checked my ISO, this shouldn't be news for you.

I'm happy voting with two of my stronger townleans

[yessiree]

Strange.

Would you like to explain your read on me further? Clearly your reaction indicates that you've been harboring it for a bit.

If you checked my ISO, this shouldn't be news for you.

I'm happy voting with two of my stronger townleans

Bullcrap, the only origin I can find is you jokingly mindmelding with Hu Tao (your top scumread) about their theory that they gave no explanation for.

Where is your townread on Penguin coming from, what sticks out to you as towny based on his behavior? And based on your list BlackStar seemed null, was I wrong about that? Why didn't you clarify that when I directly asked you earlier?

It's way earlier.

No, I did not mindmeld with Hu Tao ever??

Black star is a townlean, Penguin is a townread. I referred to these two as my stronger townleans. I don't get why you're so hung up on the wording

Sensing some frantic energy behind this barrage of questions you're throwing at your scum read here

[yessiree]

Yes. Eliminate them

Scum case me

[yessiree]

Where am I at right now?

[yessiree]

Could I pick your brain about hu tao?

Hu could deffo be scum together with straightflish. Their had sus interactions on d1

[yessiree]

Yes. Eliminate them

Scum case me

Day 1 end. Case closed bucko

ok you caught me... buckette? buckarette?

[yessiree]

yessiree not gaining any steam and not posting just makes me think we're on the right path

Dafuq you mean?

[yessiree]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Okay what i supposed to do?

Sheep me bro

[yessiree]

Hmm. What am I not seeing with straightflush?

how are you reading that slot?

[yessiree]

Spoiler: quotes

This exchange reads like scumdistancing imo, just a lot of worst-faith readings of each other and not a ton of substance.

For Brian, I just don't get any read on how he wants to act/what impact he wants to have on the game. The "analyzer" thing and the talk around that is especially weird.

For PC, I just think his early selfvote and posting habits since then have kinda invited this kind of argument, and there's not much benefit for him to continue engaging with it atp

VOTE: Brian Skies

You're all over the place right now, your response to Smiley seems to confirm that you're making up reasons to hound PC as you go along.

Current reads, not ordered with in categories since I don't have the braincells for it rn:

TOWN
Smiley
Random Nurse
Greeting
Hu Tao

NULL
PenguinPower
KayJayQueue

MIXED
Political Clout
Titus
davesaz
yessiree

SCUM
Brian Skies
BlackStar

Surprisingly even spread all things considered

TOWN

Greeting

TOWNREADS

SmileyDude1
StraightFlush

TOWNLEANS

yessiree
davesaz

NULL

Hu Tao
PenguinPower
Random Nurse
KayJayQueue

EH?

Brian Skies
Political Clout
Titus

SCUMREADS

BlackStar

Nice color coding, I should try doing stuff like that on this site

Interested to hear about those takes on Dave and Nurse, not what I was expecting.

This exchange reads like scumdistancing imo, just a lot of worst-faith readings of each other and not a ton of substance.

For Brian, I just don't get any read on how he wants to act/what impact he wants to have on the game. The "analyzer" thing and the talk around that is especially weird.

For PC, I just think his early selfvote and posting habits since then have kinda invited this kind of argument, and there's not much benefit for him to continue engaging with it atp

I'm not at all convinced if this is scum distancing. I do think there is a decent chance of at least one scum amongst these two though.

Yeah the rest of the convo after that definitely made me come closer to your interpretation

Then again, I feel icky about jumping on the

Brian Skies

wagon, because I could very well see their posts coming from a townie perspective and also I feel icky about most people who already are voting them.

What do you think a better vote is?

I think

Random Nurse

contributed very little and I'm happy with that wagon building up. The posts I read while running his ISO seemed like he really had nothing to say even in the few times when he did post.

VOTE: Random Nurse

I disagree with the premise of this vote. Nurse has been inactive for a while for unknown reasons to the point of a modprod, and we've had zero chance to see them catch up to important thread activities like the Brian wagon, the whole PC v. Brian thing, Titus actually doing stuff, etc. Not really reasonable to go here until he's engaged again

UNVOTE:

I have reached the conclusion that if Brian is scum, then he is an inconceivably bad player. I am not ready to make that assumption.

Considering a vote on either Greeting or KayJayQueue. Perhaps Random Nurse too if he continues to get nowhere in terms of thread presence

How do you feel about his most recent posts?

NAI in a vacuum but when you combine it with just how long it’s been since he was really substantive it starts to get concerning. Definitely more amenable to voting him than I would’ve been three days ago

VOTE: Greeting

went through his day 1 again, this is his progression on Greeting, I find it pretty disingenuous how he shifted from townread to scumread

he starts off from scumreading both Brian vs PC for scum distancing and a clear townread on Greeting
-> to agreeing with Greeting that only one of {Brian, PC} contains scum
-> to scumreading Greeting based on disagreeing with the premise of Greeting voting nurse
-> to considering voting both Greeting and nurse
-> to voting Greeting once smiley dropped his case and there was signs of momentum on a Greeting wagon

[yessiree]

I still mostly townread you and think you've been pretty decent with discussion this game, so I'll assume the difference of interpretations here is in good faith, rather than some Word-Twisting Wally shenanigans.

I never got the impression you were townreading me?

didn't you have me at null before

[yessiree]

dammit 895 is making me second guessing myself

not the clarification itself but how you chose to approach it

[yessiree]

[yessiree]

VOTE: enchant

Deja vu

[yessiree]

ah shid, here we go again

[yessiree]

my wagon formed pretty fast too

scum was happy cheer leading both wagons

[yessiree]

my wagon formed pretty fast too

scum was happy cheer leading both wagons

Well if that’s true, I’m sorry that I started it with conviction. But I won’t fully apologize until I know I was wrong.

I don't think you've done anything that needs apologizing for...

you're one of the few people that was actually looking at the big picture instead of sitting on my wagon which is why I have been townreading u

[yessiree]

Obviously, the 3 goons, it definetly seemed like people were not expecting it, was it more of a failure on my part to not predict players would be used to the mafia having at least 1 PR, or was it something about the setup being too townsided for a 3 goons team, ironically giving them the win?

don't think the setup is too townsided, but I do think this was not a fun setup for scum to play in since there was very limited counterplays against town PRs, (vanilla cop means no fakeclaims) and the game becomes more waiting for town to make mistakes with night actions. I think this is part of the reason why people ruled out a 3 goons team also

[yessiree]

Who the hell is Enchonker

i all in'ed on you and it paid off BIG

[yessiree]

thanks for modding gypy!