Micro Normal 1104 - Day 2

[JacksonVirgo]

That was a little sassy, but I couldn't help myself

[Eiralox]

If you say so love

I do say so, I explained as much in my ISO-dive

I must have missed it I can't click every spoiled before I've even drunk my monster -.-

Didn't you say to HEM it was his responsibility to defend against nothing but a naked vote? Where's your defense here?

Against you? Hu Tao? None. I'll check your reasons because you do say you posted some? But don't expect much from me?

And my defense against monke?

I'll explain why I voted Ceejay and Monke in my own time but for now I, in fact, waiting. Mostly for content from Hu Tao, humaneating monkey,GuyInFreezer

[JacksonVirgo]

before I've even drunk my monster

Which flavour? I may unvote if you pick correctly

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait, you were trying to position yourself against me without even knowing what my case even was?

[Eiralox]

before I've even drunk my monster

Which flavour? I may unvote if you pick correctly

It's pacific punch but I prefer mariposa or watermelon. aussie lemonade is okay.

Wait, you were trying to position yourself against me without even knowing what my case even was?

Not as such, real talk my vote will probably be very static today and not touch you at all, but you hurt my feelings so much by voting me after seeming to like me earlier that I feel I JUST have to form a towncore with Luka, Umlaut and KayJay, who all seem such splendid folk.

[Eiralox]

Spoiler: A few small shower thoughts, no biggie

KayJayQueue

Spoiler:

I really like Kay's entrance (9), to me it shows that she's not stiff going into a game with town JV. I know how highly she thinks of my play so her not being stiff shows a lot, this is shown especially paired with 28, where she is showing "aggression" towards me for a recently closed game where I was wolf in.

31 and 45 both inherently give me a little pause, but upon thinking a bit deeper I think these are natural posts to come from her given how she's treated RVS in all the games I've played with her in so far.

I don't think wolf!kay votes without reason, her 54 shows that she is

still

loose socially, I don't feel she'd vote for a non-serious reason especially given that the game "skipped RVS" according to her own words, so she isn't hiding behind RVS either.

143 is the first post I really don't like, while what she said was factually true (she works god awful hours on weekends), dropping this feels awfully defensive when typically she has been fairly loose and relaxed this entire game so far but I do know she gets defensive so this is going to be a "back of my head" thought for a while.

272 is Kay's first content"ful" post, at #30 in their ISO. This is concerning to me that I was town-reading somebody this far into the game without any semblance of content so I'm somewhat concerned what I'm reading into is her as a person (very possible) or she's directly appealing to me directly or otherwise. The first contentful post of hers is also incredibly withdrawn, it feels like it's trying to negate Luka's townread of Eiralox to keep the wagon in its place without trying to push it actively herself. Although she says that she meant to be talking about Umlaut which, if true, would remove this fear of mine so maybe I'm trying to justify a rogue feeling of paranoia that started forming midway through reading the game.

Spoiler: Possible Pocket Attempts (5)

Behold, I doth void my bladder and expel feces hither and thither without constraint.

I really appreciate that, although the same in spirit, you change up the vocabulary in your entrance post (:

2. Toxic and harmful behaviour will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to:
- flaming, insulting, or directing personal attacks at other players
- use of slurs or derogatory language
- spamming
- excessive AtE
- excessive discussion of real life issues (a mention is fine, but please don't derail the game or use this thread as a place to vent)
- otherwise being a jerk or making the game unenjoyable for others

I was planning on using slurs and derogatory language, but I will respect the rule henceforth.

Okay you take the bad language, I’ll do the excessive AtE. (I know, I know, totally out of character for me)

I’m seeing a back-to-back vote on my declared townread on page 5 and that is no bueno.

That’s okay just get a new townread. I’m available!

And no, it’s not Hu Tao.

It’s me!

Hu Tao hasn’t tried to pocket me nearly enough for my liking. This is sus behavior.

And neither has Jack. I hate this timeline.


Hu/Jack scum team and my entire world would shatter.

As of page 14, I think Kay is town. I think they need to start posting more content or this will start to slip off as the primary driver of this read is her behaviour more than content which arguably is probably stronger to use in the early game but I do want to hear more from her.

GuyInFreezer

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Overcat

Their opening (32) seems pretty decent to me, their acclamation that a vote them was inducing anxiety is townie as it shows that he's not afraid to express negative thoughts/feelings about people "pushing" him. I'm cautious reading into anything else in this post as it insinuates a townie mindset but given how much he's posted proving he "knows his stuff" I'm sure this is extremely capable of being faked to a certain degree.

I inherently like 33 but I am unsure if that's much beyond having the same read on Kay that I do, the town-read on mine also feels good so I'm sure that's also influencing it. I don't usually like to look into the timing of posts but 7 minutes to write up this post when nothing happened between, and he acknowledged reading the thread is an interesting thing to note as he appears to be very headstrong, but this to me seems to hint he was waiting on people to start carrying the game beyond him which doesn't really fully line up to me.

At the time of reading 36 naturally, I did town-read this like most others (that I recall commenting on this) did but is this really saying much? Paired with the fact they were town-reading me for asking questions, and scum-reading Luka for asking questions. I don't really see how our questions are all that different, which I know is what they went to me and asked me later for but even reading this back I'm not sure I see this. Reserving judgement on Luka specifically is a weird line to draw, this is essentially saying "I don't think we should be reading Luka because what they did could come from either alignment" which is incredibly silly. I may update my thoughts on this as I read their ISO further, if so I'll try to refer back to this but if you use your noggin' you should be able to know what I'm referring to if I forget.

52 I really like how they're not taking the explicit shading from Luka here, although given what input they've shown this is likely to come from their character more than anything to do with their alignment but I do think Luka/Overcat aren't both wolves at the very least. (also writing this, I see a thread of reading me by my effort with overcat and now Eiralox, with Luka being the main push against that. If I remember I will do some more thinking about this interaction on its own soon, if I forget and you're reading this please remind me).

Their first point feels almost entirely like padding to make their argument seem stronger, there is no reasonable way he's attributing this read to town-read me, and scum-read Luka when I personally do not remember doing much with any question I've asked thus far in a public manner. I've internalised the responses but did not act upon them, yet he's using this argument to scum-read Luka. The second point I feel is what they actually have on Luka that they wanted padded, they say that X thing is scummy and that Y thing is townie. Their definition of what Y is was incredibly weak so I don't feel that Y was thought out

at all

and just wanted the comparison apparent, to push it. They also say that X can sometimes valid, but this time it isn't without clarifying why on either end of this. What he did do was give an excuse to not complete his thought by "this post is too long". I wish I had this view back when he was still in the game, because then I could have asked him to clarify further.

His confidence about a Luka vote in 73 seems to be a little misplaced as he's done many things to insinuate he could be wrong (not explicitly, but he's posted shit like "I normally dont vote and make decisions early on but I think this is mafia" and also making his point but adding a "sometimes this is valid reasoning", but this confidence does not seem to fit with that. He seems to be unintentionally showing his lack of confidence yet saying he is.

He also tried shutting down my Eiralox read in that same post (73) that they weren't showing emotional investment or taken a firm stance even though they shown and expressed a townread on Kay who inarguably is the exact same. I feel this is trying to control the gamestate more than genuine discourse between towns. He isn't using any arguments for anybody, Umlaut called this out (which immediately gives him huge townpoints).

122 I really want to know what type of questions they're considering one way or the other. Because reading this back now I do think I recall Luka acting more politician-like, especially given the question framed to Overcat that had the quotations in it. Felt like positioning more than a genuine question but I don't think Luka acted predominantly like that, I'll have to check when I get back through his ISO.

125 circles back to their post which I called out the comparison between Kay and Eiralox which actually voids that point of mine as this shows his standards is consistent which is a good +town.

I also like how they attempted to get on my level and make sure I understand where his read is coming from in 136 which I don't think scum would likely do with somebody who seemed to otherwise reject that part of their argument.

Generally, I feel this slot is town by the consistency and behaviour surrounding me in particular (disregarding GIF, who I am ISOing next). The one thing I actively dislike is them making some arguments without doing anything but flapping his mouth which i would like to add that Umlaut looks extremely good for catching and calling out in realtime which I will take note of, especially for if Overcat's slot flips red.

Spoiler: GuyInFreezer

159 is a great "first" post, as I tend to agree with them. If you do read this GIF, can you elaborate as to why you town-read them (especially this post) as I want to know if it's for the same reason that I am.

171 & 172 I like quite a lot, explicitly in combination with one another. I don't see a direct reason scum would delay revealing information, if not to see what happens and form their thoughts later but 172 shows they've got some thought as to who they're thinking so ruling out Hu Tao doesn't seem like a super useful thing for scum to do (if 171's intent was to delay giving their thoughts) and thus not generally something they'd

think

of doing. So unless this is an attempt to mimic their town meta, I really like these posts.

Reached 279 and they haven't explained a single one of these thoughts yet, so I'm gonna ask them in thread and come back to this later but stating here that I am wanting this resolved pretty urgently. Especially as through this I've got Umlaut as a town without even getting to their ISO left so I'm curious if it's the same thing that I've stated already or if it's something new. Same with the CJ read they commented on (read up).

That's all they've got so far. I'm pretty confident to put them as a town-lean but they're closer to a full town-read. I just want my questions resolved before I can feel comfortable moving them up.

Luka

Spoiler:

12 inherently agreeing with a read I initially had made so that's a good start to get into my good graces early for very cheap

I still don't like how they voted Umlaut (15) but hadn't placed them in their readlist at all (20), if they wanted to get something of substance from it (as stated in 24) I feel they'd commit to it a bit longer than they did but it's been dropped without almost any time in between (5 total posts later, and it's their direct next post) so I'll ask them directly and hope they respond before I finish writing this post. I can't really get the taste of this out of my mouth.

33 and 43 are the posts that I believe Overcat is referring to when they're saying they're asking questions like a politician, and honestly I feel their assessment of those questions is lacklustre as it's clear Luka is asking because they're rejecting the concept and wants confirmation that Overcat's words are truly thought out. Luka's mindset can be corroborated with 42 where they directly think Overcat's thoughts are TMI. The link between Luka's posts exists and their mindset isn't asking questions in the same way I was asking them, it was almost entirely a different way but not a manipulative way.

83 I guess it's worth asking you what you consider effort? You were/are under the belief I put in little effort (you explictly said 0 here but I know I did) yet Eiralox and Overcat both considered me having to. Do you genuinely feel I've done nothing and these people are fake or seeing something that isn't there, or do you just have a different definition of it?

85 reading back I don't think you were being mean either, a little combative/aggressive but that's normal and not an issue. I don't know why I was seeing what you were doing as not nice. I also don't see how the read by the doggy was all that bad, I think all three of us were on a very different wavelength and I'd like to get on the same one (at least us both as doggy is gone now).

What's your gameplan here exactly?

Gauge things first, analyse it deeper later and express it after that.

228 "Mel still isn't putting effort in idgi why are people towning them based off of this" awaiting your response to my above question because I'm fairly sure we're on the wrong footing with this type of thing. Or maybe it's because I've been reluctant to make a stance on too many people (accidentally as I was meaning to think more and write this up, so me not making a strong stance was a direct consequence of the gameplan I was coming into this game with).

You made the same assessment about twtbw Eira in 236 as you did in 211. Did you come to this conclusion twice individually, or awkwardly rehashing the same read to make a point?

Appending to that above paragraph, you did also in 270 which you used "on a side note" insinuating this is the first time you're saying this (it was not even the second lul)

Overall, town-lean but cautious because I know how good you can be (even though every time I tell you, you seem to deny it)

humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:

Spoiler: ceejayvinoya

As I said in GIF's ISO-dive, I really like ceejay's 46. I don't think scum!ceejay would go against the grain like this, especially on somebody as vocal and combative as Luka.

117 is also a really good post (at least on the surface) as it seems they're genuinely trying to understand Eira but at the same time that last question does seem like it's a pretty high chance if they're scum this is just for positioning, I'll have to see if they follow up with this.

They didn't follow up with it, and they replaced out so I won't get the chance to ask more about it. They feel very laid back and calm this game, but they've been reluctant to make a stance on somebody. They did make one on Kay but it took three posts to do it and it was pretty substantially vague reasoning. Their entrance was strong but it died down.

Spoiler: humaneatingmonkey

Ignoring 156 which I'm not convinced is a genuine read, a lot of their posts until 18 posts into the ISO were pretty lightweight so not much to comment on but 201 feels like a genuine post. I'm not sure much can be discerned from it because I'm sure he's capable of seeing a shitty push on his slot and calling it out as a wolf.

Additionally, I think their vote in 223 is perfectly justified. Confirmation that the Luka read was genuine is interesting too, I missed that the first time around. Can you elaborate on that somewhat? Actually as I'm writing this I feel I should quote reply it instead of asking it twenty bajillion words into a post.

I feel their vote (placed to get answers) and their 238 has strong progression, I feel it's somewhat a tunnel (regardless of accuracy) and I don't recall a single stated read (outside of Luka) let alone explanations so this could be opportunistic voting by scum.

243 is actually a really interesting catch that I don't recall reading a response to in his ISO. Let me double check that.

They did respond but that was pretty lacklustre, no wonder I overlooked it. I don't see why HEM wouldn't respond back to this, is there a reason for this?

This slot is by far the hardest to place for me, there isn't much they have and HEM is inarguably a difficult person for me to read so this is gonna be fun.

Eiralox

Spoiler:

Personal dislike for cat wallpost

Oh boy, here we go.

This post feels like it's full of content but it really contains nothing but them stating a dislike for wallposts which they admit is more of an emotional response. I like them settling for a slow game but why write this whole post saying nothing just to say you want to take things slow?

Not explaining the ceejay read even when they voted, asked (responded later), unvoted and then responded to the question asking what the read was from, they seriously just dodged the question entirely. They've been incredibly sidelined up to this point, not making any stance and not committing to the one they did make. I didn't realise how little they did until seeing it in an ISO.

191 what an insane stance to make. The burden of proof is initially on the accuser. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. You expecting to naked vote and expect somebody to defend that is literally insane. You can't honestly believe that? In this interaction between HEM and Eiralox, Eiralox looks awful. Why didn't I see this reading it in realtime?

I know I responded to 256 and relevant posts in that string of conversation, but I really don't like how they reacted to this all. They say the town-read is because of my effort, walk it back and say it's predominately me being chill, I ask for elaboration and they say the two reads are seperate, I call that out and then they throw effort/chill into the same bucket again. This feels like textbook defensive behaviour, I do not like this slot.

Umlaut

Spoiler:

I like the transparency in 76 that would otherwise be an ignored push (based on RVS, and my assumption of Umlaut's skill level). Them being transparent about what their mindset was behind the post being "called out" is pretty substantially +town in my eyes.

112 is a strong post. They had the same thoughts about Overcats 32 that I did, though they're assuming they're newb scum which they are very clearly not new to mafia as a whole so that part I would adamantly disagree on. Responding to Luka's claim of TMI sounds good to me as well, I do not remember if this was before or after I commented on it but it doesn't matter as this isn't really a revolutionary idea to call out but I do like it. Ending on a ceejay vote seems decent to me as well.

120 I like how he calls out Overcat for lacking a persuasive force, I think this was more him not pushing him for not having an argument but genuinely telling him what he's doing doesn't hold weight. Which is what I caught too, but we are seemingly having different insight into what it actually means. Which to me is an even better sign than me retrospectively having the same read, he isn't abusing the fact it otherwise looks pretty bad.

Calling out Kay for seeing Eiralax for what they're not is good, they even put the effort in to come with receipts (275) is also a good look, but for this post in particular I think I'm combining me liking the effort more than anything town but who gives a shit, this is townie as far as I care

Hu Tao

Spoiler:

38 (and 39) they seem to be TRing both OC and Kay which is a good sign to me as those are the reads I came to, which writing this and recalling the amount of times I've stated this exact thing in the past is making me painfully aware that this is probably a really stupid reason to town-read somebody early on. Eh, whatever

53 is a good look. It's inherently not jumping to a conclusion which I feel scum!tao would be doing here. They're actively trying to reach out and get on the same level as Luka albeit the "or trying to force a bad read" is quite antagonistic so that post depending on how it was intended could also be read poorly but I'm an opportunist. I feel if scum wanted to shade them, they wouldn't have reached out an olive branch first. Actually... their next post insinuates I am wrong, so I'll check the context that they're in now.

They didn't wait for a response and decided to assume it was in bad faith. Not sure how much I like that, but they did still state they're waiting for the response (and adds another question). Maybe I'm misunderstanding where her head is at.

99 (and ig 108) following up on the misunderstanding and updating is actually a good look. They didn't remove their vote so I'm not understanding their position at this point in the game so I'm hoping that comes clear soon. I know they pivoted eventually but I forget the context for that.

Nvm in the next post they show intent to move vote.

I like this slot for now, but I want them to have more stances overall. They feel like they're almost playing it safe so I definitely want to pick her brain more.

Ugh ok this is it you went hard I'll read it and try and talk with you when I get time

[JacksonVirgo]

before I've even drunk my monster

Which flavour? I may unvote if you pick correctly

It's pacific punch but I prefer mariposa or watermelon. aussie lemonade is okay.

Pacific punch is good. Why tf haven’t I heard of aussie lemonade when Im a gosh darn tootin aussie.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not as such, real talk my vote will probably be very static today and not touch you at all, but you hurt my feelings so much by voting me after seeming to like me earlier that I feel I JUST have to form a towncore with Luka, Umlaut and KayJay, who all seem such splendid folk.

I don’t mean to hurt your feelings, I do feel you’re the most likely to flip wolf out of everybody, a lot of that is your lack of making any proper stances against people. You make them but there’s no weight behind it.

Do you feel the need to make a towncore just based from my recent vote on you? Or am I misunderstanding that?

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: A few small shower thoughts, no biggie

KayJayQueue

Spoiler:

I really like Kay's entrance (9), to me it shows that she's not stiff going into a game with town JV. I know how highly she thinks of my play so her not being stiff shows a lot, this is shown especially paired with 28, where she is showing "aggression" towards me for a recently closed game where I was wolf in.

31 and 45 both inherently give me a little pause, but upon thinking a bit deeper I think these are natural posts to come from her given how she's treated RVS in all the games I've played with her in so far.

I don't think wolf!kay votes without reason, her 54 shows that she is

still

loose socially, I don't feel she'd vote for a non-serious reason especially given that the game "skipped RVS" according to her own words, so she isn't hiding behind RVS either.

143 is the first post I really don't like, while what she said was factually true (she works god awful hours on weekends), dropping this feels awfully defensive when typically she has been fairly loose and relaxed this entire game so far but I do know she gets defensive so this is going to be a "back of my head" thought for a while.

272 is Kay's first content"ful" post, at #30 in their ISO. This is concerning to me that I was town-reading somebody this far into the game without any semblance of content so I'm somewhat concerned what I'm reading into is her as a person (very possible) or she's directly appealing to me directly or otherwise. The first contentful post of hers is also incredibly withdrawn, it feels like it's trying to negate Luka's townread of Eiralox to keep the wagon in its place without trying to push it actively herself. Although she says that she meant to be talking about Umlaut which, if true, would remove this fear of mine so maybe I'm trying to justify a rogue feeling of paranoia that started forming midway through reading the game.

Spoiler: Possible Pocket Attempts (5)

Behold, I doth void my bladder and expel feces hither and thither without constraint.

I really appreciate that, although the same in spirit, you change up the vocabulary in your entrance post (:

2. Toxic and harmful behaviour will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to:
- flaming, insulting, or directing personal attacks at other players
- use of slurs or derogatory language
- spamming
- excessive AtE
- excessive discussion of real life issues (a mention is fine, but please don't derail the game or use this thread as a place to vent)
- otherwise being a jerk or making the game unenjoyable for others

I was planning on using slurs and derogatory language, but I will respect the rule henceforth.

Okay you take the bad language, I’ll do the excessive AtE. (I know, I know, totally out of character for me)

I’m seeing a back-to-back vote on my declared townread on page 5 and that is no bueno.

That’s okay just get a new townread. I’m available!

And no, it’s not Hu Tao.

It’s me!

Hu Tao hasn’t tried to pocket me nearly enough for my liking. This is sus behavior.

And neither has Jack. I hate this timeline.


Hu/Jack scum team and my entire world would shatter.

As of page 14, I think Kay is town. I think they need to start posting more content or this will start to slip off as the primary driver of this read is her behaviour more than content which arguably is probably stronger to use in the early game but I do want to hear more from her.

GuyInFreezer

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Overcat

Their opening (32) seems pretty decent to me, their acclamation that a vote them was inducing anxiety is townie as it shows that he's not afraid to express negative thoughts/feelings about people "pushing" him. I'm cautious reading into anything else in this post as it insinuates a townie mindset but given how much he's posted proving he "knows his stuff" I'm sure this is extremely capable of being faked to a certain degree.

I inherently like 33 but I am unsure if that's much beyond having the same read on Kay that I do, the town-read on mine also feels good so I'm sure that's also influencing it. I don't usually like to look into the timing of posts but 7 minutes to write up this post when nothing happened between, and he acknowledged reading the thread is an interesting thing to note as he appears to be very headstrong, but this to me seems to hint he was waiting on people to start carrying the game beyond him which doesn't really fully line up to me.

At the time of reading 36 naturally, I did town-read this like most others (that I recall commenting on this) did but is this really saying much? Paired with the fact they were town-reading me for asking questions, and scum-reading Luka for asking questions. I don't really see how our questions are all that different, which I know is what they went to me and asked me later for but even reading this back I'm not sure I see this. Reserving judgement on Luka specifically is a weird line to draw, this is essentially saying "I don't think we should be reading Luka because what they did could come from either alignment" which is incredibly silly. I may update my thoughts on this as I read their ISO further, if so I'll try to refer back to this but if you use your noggin' you should be able to know what I'm referring to if I forget.

52 I really like how they're not taking the explicit shading from Luka here, although given what input they've shown this is likely to come from their character more than anything to do with their alignment but I do think Luka/Overcat aren't both wolves at the very least. (also writing this, I see a thread of reading me by my effort with overcat and now Eiralox, with Luka being the main push against that. If I remember I will do some more thinking about this interaction on its own soon, if I forget and you're reading this please remind me).

Their first point feels almost entirely like padding to make their argument seem stronger, there is no reasonable way he's attributing this read to town-read me, and scum-read Luka when I personally do not remember doing much with any question I've asked thus far in a public manner. I've internalised the responses but did not act upon them, yet he's using this argument to scum-read Luka. The second point I feel is what they actually have on Luka that they wanted padded, they say that X thing is scummy and that Y thing is townie. Their definition of what Y is was incredibly weak so I don't feel that Y was thought out

at all

and just wanted the comparison apparent, to push it. They also say that X can sometimes valid, but this time it isn't without clarifying why on either end of this. What he did do was give an excuse to not complete his thought by "this post is too long". I wish I had this view back when he was still in the game, because then I could have asked him to clarify further.

His confidence about a Luka vote in 73 seems to be a little misplaced as he's done many things to insinuate he could be wrong (not explicitly, but he's posted shit like "I normally dont vote and make decisions early on but I think this is mafia" and also making his point but adding a "sometimes this is valid reasoning", but this confidence does not seem to fit with that. He seems to be unintentionally showing his lack of confidence yet saying he is.

He also tried shutting down my Eiralox read in that same post (73) that they weren't showing emotional investment or taken a firm stance even though they shown and expressed a townread on Kay who inarguably is the exact same. I feel this is trying to control the gamestate more than genuine discourse between towns. He isn't using any arguments for anybody, Umlaut called this out (which immediately gives him huge townpoints).

122 I really want to know what type of questions they're considering one way or the other. Because reading this back now I do think I recall Luka acting more politician-like, especially given the question framed to Overcat that had the quotations in it. Felt like positioning more than a genuine question but I don't think Luka acted predominantly like that, I'll have to check when I get back through his ISO.

125 circles back to their post which I called out the comparison between Kay and Eiralox which actually voids that point of mine as this shows his standards is consistent which is a good +town.

I also like how they attempted to get on my level and make sure I understand where his read is coming from in 136 which I don't think scum would likely do with somebody who seemed to otherwise reject that part of their argument.

Generally, I feel this slot is town by the consistency and behaviour surrounding me in particular (disregarding GIF, who I am ISOing next). The one thing I actively dislike is them making some arguments without doing anything but flapping his mouth which i would like to add that Umlaut looks extremely good for catching and calling out in realtime which I will take note of, especially for if Overcat's slot flips red.

Spoiler: GuyInFreezer

159 is a great "first" post, as I tend to agree with them. If you do read this GIF, can you elaborate as to why you town-read them (especially this post) as I want to know if it's for the same reason that I am.

171 & 172 I like quite a lot, explicitly in combination with one another. I don't see a direct reason scum would delay revealing information, if not to see what happens and form their thoughts later but 172 shows they've got some thought as to who they're thinking so ruling out Hu Tao doesn't seem like a super useful thing for scum to do (if 171's intent was to delay giving their thoughts) and thus not generally something they'd

think

of doing. So unless this is an attempt to mimic their town meta, I really like these posts.

Reached 279 and they haven't explained a single one of these thoughts yet, so I'm gonna ask them in thread and come back to this later but stating here that I am wanting this resolved pretty urgently. Especially as through this I've got Umlaut as a town without even getting to their ISO left so I'm curious if it's the same thing that I've stated already or if it's something new. Same with the CJ read they commented on (read up).

That's all they've got so far. I'm pretty confident to put them as a town-lean but they're closer to a full town-read. I just want my questions resolved before I can feel comfortable moving them up.

Luka

Spoiler:

12 inherently agreeing with a read I initially had made so that's a good start to get into my good graces early for very cheap

I still don't like how they voted Umlaut (15) but hadn't placed them in their readlist at all (20), if they wanted to get something of substance from it (as stated in 24) I feel they'd commit to it a bit longer than they did but it's been dropped without almost any time in between (5 total posts later, and it's their direct next post) so I'll ask them directly and hope they respond before I finish writing this post. I can't really get the taste of this out of my mouth.

33 and 43 are the posts that I believe Overcat is referring to when they're saying they're asking questions like a politician, and honestly I feel their assessment of those questions is lacklustre as it's clear Luka is asking because they're rejecting the concept and wants confirmation that Overcat's words are truly thought out. Luka's mindset can be corroborated with 42 where they directly think Overcat's thoughts are TMI. The link between Luka's posts exists and their mindset isn't asking questions in the same way I was asking them, it was almost entirely a different way but not a manipulative way.

83 I guess it's worth asking you what you consider effort? You were/are under the belief I put in little effort (you explictly said 0 here but I know I did) yet Eiralox and Overcat both considered me having to. Do you genuinely feel I've done nothing and these people are fake or seeing something that isn't there, or do you just have a different definition of it?

85 reading back I don't think you were being mean either, a little combative/aggressive but that's normal and not an issue. I don't know why I was seeing what you were doing as not nice. I also don't see how the read by the doggy was all that bad, I think all three of us were on a very different wavelength and I'd like to get on the same one (at least us both as doggy is gone now).

What's your gameplan here exactly?

Gauge things first, analyse it deeper later and express it after that.

228 "Mel still isn't putting effort in idgi why are people towning them based off of this" awaiting your response to my above question because I'm fairly sure we're on the wrong footing with this type of thing. Or maybe it's because I've been reluctant to make a stance on too many people (accidentally as I was meaning to think more and write this up, so me not making a strong stance was a direct consequence of the gameplan I was coming into this game with).

You made the same assessment about twtbw Eira in 236 as you did in 211. Did you come to this conclusion twice individually, or awkwardly rehashing the same read to make a point?

Appending to that above paragraph, you did also in 270 which you used "on a side note" insinuating this is the first time you're saying this (it was not even the second lul)

Overall, town-lean but cautious because I know how good you can be (even though every time I tell you, you seem to deny it)

humaneatingmonkey

Spoiler:

Spoiler: ceejayvinoya

As I said in GIF's ISO-dive, I really like ceejay's 46. I don't think scum!ceejay would go against the grain like this, especially on somebody as vocal and combative as Luka.

117 is also a really good post (at least on the surface) as it seems they're genuinely trying to understand Eira but at the same time that last question does seem like it's a pretty high chance if they're scum this is just for positioning, I'll have to see if they follow up with this.

They didn't follow up with it, and they replaced out so I won't get the chance to ask more about it. They feel very laid back and calm this game, but they've been reluctant to make a stance on somebody. They did make one on Kay but it took three posts to do it and it was pretty substantially vague reasoning. Their entrance was strong but it died down.

Spoiler: humaneatingmonkey

Ignoring 156 which I'm not convinced is a genuine read, a lot of their posts until 18 posts into the ISO were pretty lightweight so not much to comment on but 201 feels like a genuine post. I'm not sure much can be discerned from it because I'm sure he's capable of seeing a shitty push on his slot and calling it out as a wolf.

Additionally, I think their vote in 223 is perfectly justified. Confirmation that the Luka read was genuine is interesting too, I missed that the first time around. Can you elaborate on that somewhat? Actually as I'm writing this I feel I should quote reply it instead of asking it twenty bajillion words into a post.

I feel their vote (placed to get answers) and their 238 has strong progression, I feel it's somewhat a tunnel (regardless of accuracy) and I don't recall a single stated read (outside of Luka) let alone explanations so this could be opportunistic voting by scum.

243 is actually a really interesting catch that I don't recall reading a response to in his ISO. Let me double check that.

They did respond but that was pretty lacklustre, no wonder I overlooked it. I don't see why HEM wouldn't respond back to this, is there a reason for this?

This slot is by far the hardest to place for me, there isn't much they have and HEM is inarguably a difficult person for me to read so this is gonna be fun.

Eiralox

Spoiler:

Personal dislike for cat wallpost

Oh boy, here we go.

This post feels like it's full of content but it really contains nothing but them stating a dislike for wallposts which they admit is more of an emotional response. I like them settling for a slow game but why write this whole post saying nothing just to say you want to take things slow?

Not explaining the ceejay read even when they voted, asked (responded later), unvoted and then responded to the question asking what the read was from, they seriously just dodged the question entirely. They've been incredibly sidelined up to this point, not making any stance and not committing to the one they did make. I didn't realise how little they did until seeing it in an ISO.

191 what an insane stance to make. The burden of proof is initially on the accuser. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. You expecting to naked vote and expect somebody to defend that is literally insane. You can't honestly believe that? In this interaction between HEM and Eiralox, Eiralox looks awful. Why didn't I see this reading it in realtime?

I know I responded to 256 and relevant posts in that string of conversation, but I really don't like how they reacted to this all. They say the town-read is because of my effort, walk it back and say it's predominately me being chill, I ask for elaboration and they say the two reads are seperate, I call that out and then they throw effort/chill into the same bucket again. This feels like textbook defensive behaviour, I do not like this slot.

Umlaut

Spoiler:

I like the transparency in 76 that would otherwise be an ignored push (based on RVS, and my assumption of Umlaut's skill level). Them being transparent about what their mindset was behind the post being "called out" is pretty substantially +town in my eyes.

112 is a strong post. They had the same thoughts about Overcats 32 that I did, though they're assuming they're newb scum which they are very clearly not new to mafia as a whole so that part I would adamantly disagree on. Responding to Luka's claim of TMI sounds good to me as well, I do not remember if this was before or after I commented on it but it doesn't matter as this isn't really a revolutionary idea to call out but I do like it. Ending on a ceejay vote seems decent to me as well.

120 I like how he calls out Overcat for lacking a persuasive force, I think this was more him not pushing him for not having an argument but genuinely telling him what he's doing doesn't hold weight. Which is what I caught too, but we are seemingly having different insight into what it actually means. Which to me is an even better sign than me retrospectively having the same read, he isn't abusing the fact it otherwise looks pretty bad.

Calling out Kay for seeing Eiralax for what they're not is good, they even put the effort in to come with receipts (275) is also a good look, but for this post in particular I think I'm combining me liking the effort more than anything town but who gives a shit, this is townie as far as I care

Hu Tao

Spoiler:

38 (and 39) they seem to be TRing both OC and Kay which is a good sign to me as those are the reads I came to, which writing this and recalling the amount of times I've stated this exact thing in the past is making me painfully aware that this is probably a really stupid reason to town-read somebody early on. Eh, whatever

53 is a good look. It's inherently not jumping to a conclusion which I feel scum!tao would be doing here. They're actively trying to reach out and get on the same level as Luka albeit the "or trying to force a bad read" is quite antagonistic so that post depending on how it was intended could also be read poorly but I'm an opportunist. I feel if scum wanted to shade them, they wouldn't have reached out an olive branch first. Actually... their next post insinuates I am wrong, so I'll check the context that they're in now.

They didn't wait for a response and decided to assume it was in bad faith. Not sure how much I like that, but they did still state they're waiting for the response (and adds another question). Maybe I'm misunderstanding where her head is at.

99 (and ig 108) following up on the misunderstanding and updating is actually a good look. They didn't remove their vote so I'm not understanding their position at this point in the game so I'm hoping that comes clear soon. I know they pivoted eventually but I forget the context for that.

Nvm in the next post they show intent to move vote.

I like this slot for now, but I want them to have more stances overall. They feel like they're almost playing it safe so I definitely want to pick her brain more.

Ugh ok this is it you went hard I'll read it and try and talk with you when I get time

I sunk multiple hours into that it feels like lmao, I don’t actually know how long it took me

[Eiralox]

I'm making a towncore from people I think are towny. You should be in it but nuh uh :3 My current stance is the voting humaneatingmonkey claw technique and I already said I'll explain it whenever.

I sunk multiple hours into that it feels like lmao, I don’t actually know how long it took me

I mean yeah you're jiving me for not efforting yet on p16 of a micro but honestly i already need a break -.-

have fun Virgo

[humaneatingmonkey]

Eiralox feels like they're just trying to position themselves to be able to vote low-hanging fruits based on consensus, less so trying to really sort people.

[KayJayQueue]

I wonder if anybody quoted in that post got the notif for it lmfao. Let me know, I'm curious if they show under spoilers

Yes I got the notification. You were busy today.

[GuyInFreezer]

I would very much like to see GIF and HEM solve each other when i wake up.
I think those two would be interesting to see thoughts on each other/solving each other. I think that would be highly informative for the game.

I already solved the slot by reading the first three pages :^)

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I thought about things but I think I can say Hu Tao can be my townread #5. Normally this is where I stop but I’m going to go for bonus points because one of those 5 is IC so I’m kinda cheating

[Eiralox]

good read glad you're making progress

[Hu Tao]

Only actual read I have is cat town here

No updated stance on Luka after all your interactions?

I already outed my updated thoughts on Luka, are you checked out this game or are you scum

[Hu Tao]

I'm making a towncore from people I think are towny. You should be in it but nuh uh :3 My current stance is the voting humaneatingmonkey claw technique and I already said I'll explain it whenever.

I sunk multiple hours into that it feels like lmao, I don’t actually know how long it took me

I mean yeah you're jiving me for not efforting yet on p16 of a micro but honestly i already need a break -.-

have fun Virgo

Why is monke your biggest scumread?

[Hu Tao]

Eiralox feels like they're just trying to position themselves to be able to vote low-hanging fruits based on consensus, less so trying to really sort people.

Agreed

[Hu Tao]

Also I thought about things but I think I can say Hu Tao can be my townread #5. Normally this is where I stop but I’m going to go for bonus points because one of those 5 is IC so I’m kinda cheating

Easiest pocket of my life.

Thoughts on Eira?

[GuyInFreezer]

Also I thought about things but I think I can say Hu Tao can be my townread #5. Normally this is where I stop but I’m going to go for bonus points because one of those 5 is IC so I’m kinda cheating

Easiest pocket of my life.

Thoughts on Eira?

Was my initial two scumread along with Jackson.
But I didn’t really pay attention after that cos I switched to townseeking mode.

[KayJayQueue]

KayJayQueue

Spoiler:

I really like Kay's entrance (9), to me it shows that she's not stiff going into a game with town JV. I know how highly she thinks of my play so her not being stiff shows a lot, this is shown especially paired with 28, where she is showing "aggression" towards me for a recently closed game where I was wolf in.

31 and 45 both inherently give me a little pause, but upon thinking a bit deeper I think these are natural posts to come from her given how she's treated RVS in all the games I've played with her in so far.

I don't think wolf!kay votes without reason, her 54 shows that she is

still

loose socially, I don't feel she'd vote for a non-serious reason especially given that the game "skipped RVS" according to her own words, so she isn't hiding behind RVS either.

143 is the first post I really don't like, while what she said was factually true (she works god awful hours on weekends), dropping this feels awfully defensive when typically she has been fairly loose and relaxed this entire game so far but I do know she gets defensive so this is going to be a "back of my head" thought for a while.

272 is Kay's first content"ful" post, at #30 in their ISO. This is concerning to me that I was town-reading somebody this far into the game without any semblance of content so I'm somewhat concerned what I'm reading into is her as a person (very possible) or she's directly appealing to me directly or otherwise. The first contentful post of hers is also incredibly withdrawn, it feels like it's trying to negate Luka's townread of Eiralox to keep the wagon in its place without trying to push it actively herself. Although she says that she meant to be talking about Umlaut which, if true, would remove this fear of mine so maybe I'm trying to justify a rogue feeling of paranoia that started forming midway through reading the game.

Spoiler: Possible Pocket Attempts (5)

Behold, I doth void my bladder and expel feces hither and thither without constraint.

I really appreciate that, although the same in spirit, you change up the vocabulary in your entrance post (:

2. Toxic and harmful behaviour will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to:
- flaming, insulting, or directing personal attacks at other players
- use of slurs or derogatory language
- spamming
- excessive AtE
- excessive discussion of real life issues (a mention is fine, but please don't derail the game or use this thread as a place to vent)
- otherwise being a jerk or making the game unenjoyable for others

I was planning on using slurs and derogatory language, but I will respect the rule henceforth.

Okay you take the bad language, I’ll do the excessive AtE. (I know, I know, totally out of character for me)

I’m seeing a back-to-back vote on my declared townread on page 5 and that is no bueno.

That’s okay just get a new townread. I’m available!

And no, it’s not Hu Tao.

It’s me!

Hu Tao hasn’t tried to pocket me nearly enough for my liking. This is sus behavior.

And neither has Jack. I hate this timeline.


Hu/Jack scum team and my entire world would shatter.

As of page 14, I think Kay is town. I think they need to start posting more content or this will start to slip off as the primary driver of this read is her behaviour more than content which arguably is probably stronger to use in the early game but I do want to hear more from her.

You seem to be digging really deep trying to find things to feel off about when you know exactly how easy it is for you to read me. You seem really invested in this game so early, moreso than usual town games of yours. I wonder if that’s indicative of anything…

[JacksonVirgo]

If it wasn’t clear the purpose of my iso dive was to find all things I find scummy and all things I find townie and make an analysis after I’ve finished each account and then each slot as a whole. I’m not going to iso dive to confirm my previous beliefs. I don’t know your scum range and the one time I guessed when reading the game, I was wrong. What are you basing your confidence in my ability to read you from?

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you wolf? This feels unnatural

[KayJayQueue]

Are you wolf? This feels unnatural

No, I just can’t trust you after you absolutely misted me and made me think you’re town and then made me feel like a complete idiot. Now I have no confidence in being able to read you and everything you do feels weird because this isn’t how you acted in our recent town games.

[KayJayQueue]

If it wasn’t clear the purpose of my iso dive was to find all things I find scummy and all things I find townie and make an analysis after I’ve finished each account and then each slot as a whole. I’m not going to iso dive to confirm my previous beliefs. I don’t know your scum range and the one time I guessed when reading the game, I was wrong. What are you basing your confidence in my ability to read you from?

Every game we’ve been in together?