[OLD] Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[shaft.ed]

Nightshift Mafia

All voting takes place during the "night." Thus powerroles are excercised during the voting phases. If a powerrole is not used prior to a lynch, they forfeit their ability that cycle. There is no communication outside the thread. Mafia must have a godfather and a goon agreeing on their target before a kill is executed to prevent them from making the Doc role moot by killing immediately at the begining of each new night phase. Some time limit needs to be instated between PMs to the mod for mafia changing their target votes so they can't just go down the list each time.

1 Cop
1 Doc
1 Vig
6 Townies
1 GF (night lynchable only)
2 Mafia

[shaft.ed]

shaf.ted, what happens during the day?

Also, I'd love to play something mountainous. Anyone got any ideas?

Basically is no day phase. Just a fluid game with powerroles/mafia hits occuring during the voting phase. Lynching resets everyone's ability to use their powerrole ability for during the next voting cycle.

[shaft.ed]

Hide and Seeker Mafia

3 X Mafia Goons
2 X Hiders
1 X RoleCop
1 X 50% Roleblocker, 25% Vig, 25% town
1 X Seeker (wins if lynches either hider)
4 X Town

Mafia wins as normal
Town wins as normal
Seeker wins if lynches either hider before himself or the hiders are killed. He must be voting on the hider lynch for it to count.

[shaft.ed]

the unlyncher loses and has failed his objective and should be removed from game until a winner has been achieved

I think you should make his win conditiont he same as the lyncher, whereby he wins with the town if he survives to end game. He needs to have a reason to play if his target dies.

[shaft.ed]

Hide and Seeker Mafia

3 X Mafia Goons
2 X Hiders
1 X RoleCop
1 X 50% Roleblocker, 25% Vig, 25% town
1 X Seeker (wins if lynches either hider)
4 X Town

Mafia wins as normal
Town wins as normal
Seeker wins if lynches either hider before himself or the hiders are killed. He must be voting on the hider lynch for it to count.

Sorry if this didn't make any sense. The Seeker role is an uninformed lyncher. He needs to find one of the two Hiders in the game and get them lynched. The Hiders have night actions just like normal hiders. They can target someone else and spend the night with them. If they are then targeted by mafia for NK, they will survive, but if the person they targeted is NK'd they die as well. So basically the cop can find the hiders, or hunt mafia at night. And the mafia can find the hiders either by chosing a hiding place where they would expect them to target, or attempt NK'ing them but upon an unsuccessful NK the mafia will know who a hider is and can avoid their lynch during the day phase.

Anyway two other simpler set-ups

Just a Flesh Wound

C9 where the cop and doc are replaced with a bulletproof townie and an unlynchable townie thus 25% of each of the following:
2 Goons, 1 BP, 1 UL, 3 townies
2 Goons, 1 BP, 4 townies
2 Goons, 1 UL, 4 townies
2 Gooons, 5 townies
If end gamed with one goon and one BP townie it's declared a tie

Simple Serial Killer

1 SK
4 townies
^Really extravagant here I know^

[shaft.ed]

The devil is promafia.

Guessing he knows who the mafia are? So he's bascially a buffed traitor.

[shaft.ed]

IH, with Superkill are you worried about the double roleblockers effectively screwing over the other town powerroles?

[shaft.ed]

No, a devil doesn't know who's in the mafia, nor vice versa. His entire purpose is to role-fish.

Devil is also called "mafia spy," I believe with the same definition.

Seems like it would be very difficult to have any impact on your win condition. Would it be worth giving them a N0 headstart on their investigation?

Games with 1 SK are what you do when you don't have enough players.

Yeah, I can never convince anyone to play mafia in RL so limited to this style game. Thought it might be fun for kicks.

[shaft.ed]

I think you should make his win condition he same as the lyncher, whereby he wins with the town if he survives to end game. He needs to have a reason to play if his target dies.

In mafia only one aim ever applies. Complete your objective If you fail your objective you've lost

From the Wiki:
If the target is nightkilled, the lyncher (if still alive) turns into a townie.

Lyncher wins: 21.1% (plus 5.1% wins as a townie)

[shaft.ed]

Nominate IH's Superkill Mafia

*if it's considered within scope

[shaft.ed]

Justice Justice mafia

2 NK immune scum

8 NK immune one shot vigs

= )

That's insanely imbalanced. If you don't limit the vig's to one shot, that could fix it.

[shaft.ed]

nominate vengeful

[shaft.ed]

(IH you do know that my reply was a joke since the vig's can't kill anybody anyway right?)

EDIT: And what are doing here, you've got a newbie game to post in.

[shaft.ed]

Meh I go for dry humor. It was actually a nuanced joke, because it was actually imbalanced with 2 scum to 8 town nightless but what I suggested would do absolutely nothing to fix it and continued in the same vein as IH's first joke.

[shaft.ed]

Lol Nightless

10 Mafia
10 Town

This game starts with scum having fulfilled their win condition.

That stills leaves entrants with a 50% chance of winning the game. Odds don't get any more even than that.

[shaft.ed]

Second Pie E7

[shaft.ed]

All mafia daykill instantly, they now comprise of 50% of the town, therefor fulfill win condition.

Their win conditin is not fulfilled. Win condition usually states, and "and nothing can prevent the same." I think have 4 day vig'ing townies still alive against four guys that quick vig'd four outed townies might be just enough to tip the balance here.

[shaft.ed]

Would a Night Start Texas Justice be all too insane?

[shaft.ed]

I think it's been a while since the last one.

re-nominate: vengeful

I nominated it a couple weeks back, so I think this is a seconded


And comments on Night Start Texas Justice?

[shaft.ed]

balance wise, i think it shifts the odds in the favor of the scum.

That was kind of the idea. Seems the town are pretty easily winning these games.

[shaft.ed]

Pairing people off into two groups and getting them to shoot each other in a texas justice setup gives pretty much 75% town win, apparently. I suggest making two of the vigs fire blanks, though there's probably a better solution. Also, in the game I was just in, the mod specified how many people actually shot each person in the morning scene flavour. It needs to be clarified that this is unacceptable.

Yes I think losing the number of bullets per body would help the scum.

What about a mafia redirector? He could hold a trash can lid or something.

[shaft.ed]

Not to be pushy Thesp, but is there any way we can get sign ups for some new Open Games going. No one seems to like 2:10 vanilla, and vengeful's been thirded, while Quack Mafia has been fourthed.
[/shameless mod queue request]

[shaft.ed]

I'd at least provide some mechanism by which the Docs won't overlap their protection. Or make the mafia unable to communicate at night so they can't choreograph separate NK's. And I like the Tracker idea, kinda like a papparazi(sp).

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Crush Nightless

[shaft.ed]

Mafia games nominated, seconded, and to be queued:

*Monks and Masons
*Quack Mafia (DayStart)
*Pie E7

*Vengeful

*Daytalk 10 (3 Mafia, 7 Townies)

But I'd be more than happy if it were in the queue twice

Second Vengeful

[shaft.ed]

But I'd be more than happy if it were in the queue twice

I think it can be, as Texas Justice was played Open 51, Open 52.

That reminds me

Nominate Texas Justice

[shaft.ed]

what's the point of losing their NK if they've already lost to the Jester?

[shaft.ed]

My bad, I thought that once the Jester was lynched he won and the games ends. Didn't realize you kept playing for second place.

[shaft.ed]

Did Pie E7 get skipped or was I not paying attention?

[shaft.ed]

Fourth Mountainous Multiball

Although with the Night Action rate of Two-Fold Mafia it might turn out similar.

[shaft.ed]

Allright time for some Nominating Action (not sure where these might be)

Nominate Texas Justice
Nominate Strawberry

[shaft.ed]

Scum seems quite weak there. Maybe only two power roles for town or addition of Godfather and/or scum RB could work.

Also don't think the 3 power roles from 4 possibilities is allowed for an open game.

[shaft.ed]

Seems like too many claimable roles. What if you only had one deputy, or make the role PM for Junior Deputy identicle to Deputy but don't tell the deputies the order, that'd give mafia a reasonable power role claim.

[shaft.ed]

I didn't think the Millers would be informed of their Millarity.

[shaft.ed]

Of course they would be! Secret Millers are not normal roles.

[shaft.ed]

To be honest I've never played in a game with a Miller, and they are pretty rare. The few times I've read games including them, it appeared as though they were not informed. Also the few times I've seen scum claiming miller, it's always proposed as "I must be a Miller then" if a cop gets guilty on them. While this strategy is generally non-viable anyway, it seemed like the only way it could possibly work is if Millers don't know they're Millers.

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Adel's Cop Town | Miller Town

I think I could enjoy this game

[shaft.ed]

Speed Mafia

1 Kill-Immune Mafia GF
2 Mafia Goon
1 SK
8 Townies

SK can kill during the day, once each week, but can't kill at night.

/third

nominate: speed mafia

for head of the line privileges. It is speedy, so it should go first.

I think each week that it takes to get the game started the SK should get a pre-emptive kill.

[shaft.ed]

As part of my shameless ploy to mod faster

Nominate Vengeful

And

Second Roleblocker C9

[shaft.ed]

Speedbump Mafia

1 Kill-Immune Mafia GF
2 Mafia Goon
1 SK
1 SK specific Doc
7 Townies

SK can kill during the day, once each week, but can't kill at night. SK specific Doc can protect against SK kills once each week but not against mafia kills at night.

[shaft.ed]

or is this one better?

Paranoid Scum Mafia 2.0

3 Goons, Mafia A
3 Goons Mafia B
1 SK, member of both Mafias, traditional SK win condition, has his own NK
5 Cops

12 Players

no love? It would make for a very interesting game even with a massclaim on day 1.

Hmm this is intruiging since the Cops have a greater than 50% chance of guilty but they don't have the voting block to get anyone lynched it'll be interesting to see how they handle their roles. I like the idea of scum aligned SK's. Can the SK perform both the mafia NK and the SK NK because that could be a simple way for the mafia to weed out who the SK is. Also can someone run the odds of this ending in a draw/scorched earth. Not sure if it matters, but I know some people don't like it when nobody wins.

Also night or daystart?

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Parnoid Scum Mafia 2.0

Have a soft spot for mafia aligned SK's

[shaft.ed]

Third Just Try Claiming

more Open games ftw

[shaft.ed]

I prefer the powerroled version.

Nominate Twofold Mafia

[shaft.ed]

Third Two of Four Miller
Fourth Two of Four Townie

[shaft.ed]

Why is it set up as 2/10 again?

[shaft.ed]

Not at all sure of the balance on this one (or even if it would be any fun), but...

Kingmaker in the Palace

1 Assassin
1 Kingmaker
X Guards

Each night, the Kingmaker chooses a King. All the Guards are then told who the King is. During day, discussion continues until the King sends "Execute: Player" by PM to the Mod. If the Assassin is chosen for execution, he gets a vengeful kill, and he wins if he kills the King-for-a-Day.

It seems as though whoever even suggests the King should be killed is clearly the assassin since they're the only one out of the loop.

[shaft.ed]

Vengeance 2.0

Nightless Open:

4 Mafia
7 Townie.

Whenever a townie is lynched, he get a one shot vig kill on any player in the game.
Mafia wins when they consist of 50% or more of the town and there are no pending vig kills.

What are the odds of that ending after 2 mislynches?

[shaft.ed]

91

9 Townies
1 SK

Day start.

no. Maybe if you give the SK two NK's he'd stand a chance. So it'd be 9:1 D1, 6:1 D2, 3:1 D3.

NM No.

[shaft.ed]

Second Vengeful
Second F11

[shaft.ed]

exploding hammer

3 scum
9 townies

nightless

whomever hammers dies along with the lynchee.

Yeah that game won't drag on forever. It's hard enough to get anyone to hammer. I'd propose,

sexual gratification hammer

in the hopes encouraging more hammers.

[shaft.ed]

Actually Adel I was kidding, I just really wanted someone to Nominate Sexual Gratification Hammer mafia.

I don't think the exploding hammer would drag the game. The exploding hammer would bascially work like the town has two lynches at a time except that one of the lynchees would have to go along with it. Seems like an interesting idea (similar to Dynamite Stick as Zindi said), but I don't know if 9 3 is balanced. What would 7 2 do to the math?

[shaft.ed]

Mass Claim Mafia

2 Mafia Roleblockers (Can RB and Kill in the same night)
2 Mafia Goons
6 Trackers (Gets result of "Player X didn't target anyone" if roleblocked)
2 Watchers (Gets result of "Player X was not targeted by anyone" if roleblocked)

Night Start

what about throwing in some jailkeepers?

[shaft.ed]

Mass Claim Mafia

2 Mafia Roleblockers (Can RB and Kill in the same night)
2 Mafia Goons
6 Trackers (Gets result of "Player X didn't target anyone" if roleblocked)
2 Watchers (Gets result of "Player X was not targeted by anyone" if roleblocked)

Night Start

what about throwing in some jailkeepers?

sure, why don't you remix the setup to include some? I like a little back and forth in designing setups.

I'm afraid of rejection.



1 Mafia Goon
2 Mafia Roleblockers
2 Jailkeepers
3 Trackers
2 Watchers
1 Lazy Tracker (always gets no result)
1 Blind Watcher (always gets no result)

Roleblock>Jailkeep>investigation>Kill

Think this has too much going on

[shaft.ed]

Nominate LSD Mafia

Mass Claim Mafia

1 Scum Tracker
1 Scum Watcher
1 Scum Jailkeeper
2 Jailkeepers
2 Watchers
1 Tracker
4 Townies

Scum can kill and perform night action

[shaft.ed]

the idea for a game I was originally going with for Mass Claim was for thhere to be an early Mass Claim followed by the mafia role-blockers trying to choose their targets to make a townie look like a liar.

Also, LSD Mafia? Am I tripping?

Yeah I think I turned it into a bastardized smalltown. Not as much fun.

The LSD was a purposeful type I think.

[shaft.ed]

Massclaim Mafia

2 Scum Jailkeepers
1 Scum Watcher
4 Watchers
2 Jailkeepers
3 Townies

Scum cannot kill and use night action

[shaft.ed]

Why do you like jailkeepers?

What happens when a Jailkeeper targets a jailkeeper?

I went with Jailkeepers and watchers because the Jailkeeper will keep the watcher from seeing the target, whereas the roleblocker would get caught blocking the target by the watcher

I haven't figured out what happens when a jailkeepers circle target? Either nothing, or both.

[shaft.ed]

Might work if the scum can't talk at night and only one player can use a night action.

[shaft.ed]

Or alternatively two mafia with independent kills that do not know eachother vs 3 townies

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Vengeful

for the mod's in the queue

Nominate Texas Justice

for the trigger happy

[shaft.ed]

Bus Driver Mafia

3 Goons
2 Bus Drivers (Drivers can't be driven)
1 NK immune townie who loses his ability upon claiming
6 Townies

[shaft.ed]

Bus Driver Mafia

3 Goons
2 Bus Drivers (Drivers can't be driven)
1 NK immune townie who loses his ability upon claiming
6 Townies

Strikes me as not really doing as much with the "starring" role as does it justice, and I dislike abilities that disappear on claim, because then you start to get grey areas in terms of hints, soft-claims, wording, etc.

You can switch the NK immune townie for a Doc or two?

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Clique Mafia

Revamp of Bus Driver Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
2 Bus Drivers
1 Odd Night Doc
1 Even Night Doc
1 Watcher
4 Townies

[shaft.ed]

Revamp of Bus Driver Mafia

3 Mafia Goons
2 Bus Drivers
1 Odd Night Doc
1 Even Night Doc
1 Watcher
4 Townies

Seconded

, though the docs should probably be clarified to Odd Night and Even Night respectively.

What are you talking about old man?

[shaft.ed]

Just make ties a random choice of those elligible problem solved.

[shaft.ed]

Make on of the mason pairs turn to scum instead of roleblocker. Don't tell them what they will flip to. Turn the Miller into a Vig. Add two vanilla townies.

[shaft.ed]

Trojan Horse, what about with shaft.ed's suggestions.

Also, when I was thinking about this, there was some reason a mass claim wouldn't work, because the Mafia could also claim masons.

It'd have to be no-reveal. Gaining RB powers is hardly useful if you've just been outed as scum. And the power roles are useless.

In that case, the miller becomes effectively a confirmed townie. Lynch one of any of the four claimed mason pairs. If he's scum, game over. If not, you go to town with two confirmed innocents, one of whom is a power role.

Mafia kill the guy who's become a power role every night, leaving the miller a spectator.

Then, if the town lynches one of each of the three town mason pairs before it gets to the scum pair, AND none of the night actions work (though, theoretically, only the RB has any chance to) then scum win. Anything else, town wins.

That's just not fun.

Fonz's point is good here. The first dead scum in any pair would have to be an death anti-miller. Which I think would just get annoying.

[shaft.ed]

What about a mixing system. for example red and yellow make orange. Etc. And only artisans know their colours

The only problem I see with this is that a bunch of people could be black by day three. At this point the color scheme is pretty much bunk.

racist

[shaft.ed]

What about a mixing system. for example red and yellow make orange. Etc. And only artisans know their colours

The only problem I see with this is that a bunch of people could be black by day three. At this point the color scheme is pretty much bunk.

racist

O.O

Okay then, I hope you're not serious. How is general color theory racist?

It apparently turns a bunch of people black by day three which is antitown which scares white people.

[shaft.ed]

What about a mixing system. for example red and yellow make orange. Etc. And only artisans know their colours

The only problem I see with this is that a bunch of people could be black by day three. At this point the color scheme is pretty much bunk.

racist

O.O

Okay then, I hope you're not serious. How is general color theory racist?

It apparently turns a bunch of people black by day three which is antitown which scares white people.

Excuse me?

You asserted general color theory turns people black by day three and insinuated that people turning black was somehow a bad thing. Erg0 general color theory is racist.

[shaft.ed]

What I'm saying is, after so many people targeted a single person, all of the colors will combine to make black. Thus, since black is a combination of all colors, then trying to read the color of the person would be worthless. I just chose day 3 because it seemed like a long enough time for enough colors to be blended together.

Damn you killed the quote pyramid. It had a good run. In case you couldn't tell I was joshin' ya.

[shaft.ed]

Mayo Clinic Mafia

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk

Looks like fun, but you might tone down the number of Docs?

2 Mafia Docs will circle protect each night and are thus a NK immune pair until one gets lynched. Don't know if that was by design.

Also how does an early Massclaim effect the Compuslive Killers. Seems a decent town strat would be to have the vigs claim D1 so some Docs can protect them. This also give a 1/3 chance of knowing the SK as Compulsive Vig would be his likely safe claim.

What about removing the SK, two protown Docs and a Mafia Doc?

[shaft.ed]

Mayo Clinic Mafia

2 Mafia Doctors
1 Mafia Goon
6 Doctors
2 Compulsive Vigs
1 Compulsive Sk

Looks like fun, but you might tone down the number of Docs?

2 Mafia Docs will circle protect each night and are thus a NK immune pair until one gets lynched. Don't know if that was by design.

Also how does an early Massclaim effect the Compuslive Killers. Seems a decent town strat would be to have the vigs claim D1 so some Docs can protect them. This also give a 1/3 chance of knowing the SK as Compulsive Vig would be his likely safe claim.

What about removing the SK, two protown Docs and a Mafia Doc?

Each doc protect only protects against a single NK attempt. With 4 NKs a night a single player will need double protection to prevent a nk in many cases. I don't see a massclaim really resolving anything until at least the third day.

Ah forgot about stacked NK's. Also why's it got to be the Mayo Clinic?

Nominate

[shaft.ed]

Nominate: Mayo Clinic

This would be a fourthing, 'cause Flay, shaft.ed, and I nominated it previous page.

Fixed

[shaft.ed]

No. It was a specific theme game. It may, actually, be possible to come up with a 'generic' smalltown, but the problem with smalltowns is it sometimes becomes possible to break them.

I think a generic smalltown would be nice to have in the Open Queue. You can just take the Heroes version and strip the flavor out of it, but the SK mechanism and a couple other roles are likely not qualified for this along with a couple other roles. It (or previous/later) smalltowns should definitely be modifiable.

[shaft.ed]

we need to run another bad idea mafia

Your wish is granted

[shaft.ed]

Fine.

But you can't take Fire and Ice from me!

OK just fire then

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Polygamist Mafia

I didn't get a chance to /in for it.

Second

I believe this is what you meant

Third

btw so it's official

[shaft.ed]

Question in MD came up of how to make a six player game. This seemed like it might be interesting:

2 maf
4 town

The mafia do not know eachother and each have a NK. But one of the two will auto kill their partner no matter who they target for NK. This effect is erased if one of the two mafia dies by either lynch or accidental crosskill.

[shaft.ed]

Trendy and Subversive C9- B is awesome.

nominate

with head of the queue preference.

I think I'd rather see:
2 X 1 in 4 chance of Cop, Deputy, Doc, Nurse

[shaft.ed]

You need to make a bullet proof GF.

[shaft.ed]

Would it still be broken if we replaced the Mafia's group-kill with individual one-shots?

That would be rather imbalanced (I think), but it would prevent the Fonz's breaking strategy. You'd either get scorched earth of mafia win in that case.

[shaft.ed]

For the second set-up I'd remove the Gun Collectors and just state that Gunsmith's themselves own a gun.

[shaft.ed]

What if the scum can negate ~two of the townies prior to the game starting ?

So 2 scum 5 townies.

Pre-game scum select Townie A and B as being innefective. Thus as long as they are voted out after townies C, D and E they still win. Still 3 out of 7 odds. But you could make it Semi-Open saying scum can select 2 or 3 townies to negate. Thus some games will have 40% town win odds and some 60% averaging to 50%.

[shaft.ed]

Or just play with 6 players.

[shaft.ed]

Changed name for less questions.

Unnamed 12-Player Setup

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

OR Serial Killer

Townie OR Cop
Townie OR Doc

Townie

Serial Killer OR Vig
Townie OR Roleblocker
Townie x5

50% on each case of OR. In the case of 9x Townie, the Goon/SK becomes another Townie (making 2:10 mountainous).

Thoughts?

Fixed

[shaft.ed]

But then you could end up with 3 mafia

and

a sk, which would be a little unbalanced, wouldn't it?

many many minis run with 3 mafioso and a SK, esp with added powerroles. You might put in a clause like: "If a town rolls no power roles it becomes two-fold mafia (2 v 2 v 8)." But yes you might change the power role set up. 3 v 1 v 8 could be tough with just a Doc, or Roleblocker, or Cop, but it wouldn't be terrible.

[shaft.ed]

Just random thoughts about how to fix Texas Justice. I think this is less broken.

10 1-shot vigilantes
2 Mafia A Goons
1 Mafia A Godfather (immune to TOWN NK's)
2 Mafia B Goons
1 Mafia B Godfather (immune to TOWN NK's)

Other options include adding an SK (immune to all NK's) or Mafia 1 shot RB's (disrupts the Everyone kills a Designated person strategy).

Wouldn't the easiest fix for TJ be to make one or two of the vig's incompentent?

[shaft.ed]

Bah I just lost a long post to the CPU Quota Fairy.

Basically I'm afraid but not sure Unclean will be broken by a massclaim. In short the Miller's will likely claim at game start, this will force scum to claim a single false Miller as it's by far the optimal strategy. I'm not sure what the optimal Cop strategy is, but the town may be better off whith the cops claiming early, forcing the other scum partner to counter a cop claim or have two confirmed and replicating innocents walking around.

Anyway, would it work out better if you removed one or two townies from the mix?
What about instead of two cops, everyone gets a single use Night 0 investigation?

[shaft.ed]

Why would the Traitor claiming cop be beneficial? He's not neededto survive since game ends when scum are dead. Since cop claims are generally used to extend one's survival, it seems he'd want to leave that opportunity open for the non-Miller claiming mafiate.

Why do you not see the cop investigations producing confirmed innocents? The town doesn't have to lynch the traitor in order to win the game, so they shouldn't be concerned with the "false" innocent. And I don't see a scenario whereby the Millers don't claim in their first post so that pool will not be getting targeted by the Cops except in the night start.

What if the Traitor were allowed to see who the Cops investigated and could pass this information on to the mafia while he were alive?

[shaft.ed]

Ah, that seems much more balanced then. He's basically a Godfather that his scummates do not know about, and cannot communicate with.

[shaft.ed]

How about...Mafia cripple? Noone ever thinks cripples could be evil, and he can't kill cause he's crippled. Or maybe mafia choir boy? Something innocent on the surface and physically weak. Fairy Godmothers are known for kicking ass and taking names.

Or maybe mafia midget though there is some ongoing debate about that one from what I've read.

[shaft.ed]

If you're going with bastard mod millers I'd revert back to a traditional Traitor and remove a townie.

[shaft.ed]

Also, an idea for a twist on C9

2 Mafia Goons

1 Odd Night Cop
1 Even Night Doctor
3 Vanilla Townies

Second

[shaft.ed]

Are the Millers in Unclean v2 self-knowing or will they think they are vanilla.

If they are self-knowing I would keep the Mafia Tracker and consider making him a watcher.

If they are vanilla I'd keep as is, perhaps consider adding a roleblocker to the town for even less sanitation?

[shaft.ed]

vanilla. I think a roleblocker would mostly just make the game more swingy. If there is going to be a tweak, ideally it would produce a less swingy setup that is ever so slightly more balanced towards the town.

Then what about removing the tracker and just telling the mafia who the two Millers are from the outset?

[shaft.ed]

I don't know about the weak doc being that useless. The Weak Doc could be used as a Cop if you had a circle protection strategy, or just a preemptive hypoDoc. Granted either way the scum knows who is or isn't protected, but using the Doc to investigate would be more powerful IMHO. In that regard I would recommend removing the GF as it makes the WD less useful.

Maybe have two WD's?
or one extra townie to account for the WD's eventual death?

[shaft.ed]

Nurse Mafia

3 Mafia Doctors
1 SK
1 Vig
7 Nurses (Mod randomizes order of replacement prior to game start)

[shaft.ed]

Yes but a non-kill will act like a cop investigation for the vig.

I propose making the SK kill through protection, also give him two extra lives.

[shaft.ed]

Thinking about this more I don't think a SK that gets through Doc protects makes any sense for the game set up.

Revised

Nurse Mafia 2.0

1 Goon
2 Mafia Docs*
1 Vig
8 Nurses**

*Doctors cannot protect the same target on consecutive nights, nor can they self protect.
**Once a Doctor has been replaced the replacement cannot be replaced (prevents town having a never ending doctor(s)).

Thinking maybe convert the Goon to an unNKable godfather, but I wasn't sure if my perception that this is town tilted was accurate or not.

[shaft.ed]

why a regular doc?

[shaft.ed]

Thinking about this more I don't think a SK that gets through Doc protects makes any sense for the game set up.

Revised

Nurse Mafia 2.0

1 Goon
2 Mafia Docs*
1 Vig
8 Nurses**

*Doctors cannot protect the same target on consecutive nights, nor can they self protect.
**Once a Doctor has been replaced the replacement cannot be replaced (prevents town having a never ending doctor(s)).

Thinking maybe convert the Goon to an unNKable godfather, but I wasn't sure if my perception that this is town tilted was accurate or not.

So if a mafia doc dies the nurse becomes a town doc? NK immune GF with 2 doc's seems a bit much to me. It's only one vig

I agree I was pondering a 1 shot GF, but that's getting too far along non-standard roles.

[shaft.ed]

how is it decided which nurse takes over?

Mod randomly order the Nurses prior to game start. Highest ranking at time of Doc's death takes the spot.

[shaft.ed]

so some people are vanilla without knowing it?

Not if the Nurses at the top of the list die before they become Docs.

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, I can't see any way to make a game with Death Millers fair or fun.

I think a Death Miller could be interesting if you added in a Haley Joel Osment. He sees dead people and thus knows the true alignment of the dead. As long as he is alive (and quiet) the town would know that a death miller hasn't flipped. Think he'd only work in an open game.

[shaft.ed]

Death Miller C9:

50% Chance of

:
2 Goons
1 Doc
4 Townies

50% Chance of

:
2 Goons
1 Death Miller (not informed)
1 Haley Joel Osment (sees true alignment of all dead people)
1 Doc
2 Townies

[shaft.ed]

How does the Pillar of Poison die? The only way it could normally be killed is the Mafia, but it can't.

Lynch kills the PoP. It does seem the PoP might have (?) a smaller chance of winning, but then it's immune to both investigations and mafia kills. Then again, could coordinated townie-targets do it in? That might be a flaw there . . .

Yes I think a townie circle target will likely uncover the PoP.

[shaft.ed]

The latter

[shaft.ed]

The latter

Hi Adel you are looking very male and masculine today.

You figured me out

[shaft.ed]

Mimes are

scary

.

Yet still annoying.

[shaft.ed]

Mirror Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Tracker
1 Doctor
6 Townies

Basically trying to use the swinginess of the vig and the doc to balance one another. Having the Doc's around give the vig investigative information if his kills don't go through dependent on the game state.

[shaft.ed]

Just pitching ideas here, would anyone be interested in a Lights-Out style game? For those that don't know, as many lynches as the town wants can be made during the day, and instead of voting to lynch, players can vote to end the day when they feel that they have lynched enough players. However, players' roles are not revealed until the end of the day.
Does anyone else find this interesting, or is it just me?

I think a lights out style game could be cool. Not sure if it fits the open rules.

[shaft.ed]

Mirror Mafia

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Tracker
1 Mafia Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Tracker
1 Doctor
6 Townies

Basically trying to use the swinginess of the vig and the doc to balance one another. Having the Doc's around give the vig investigative information if his kills don't go through dependent on the game state.

Wanted to add that mafioso would be able to use powers and kill if they so desired.

Not sure if it matters but the vig and mafia kills should have the same flavor.

Also another thing I like about this set up is that the town side tracker gets imperfect information at the start of the game which will resolve as mafia/power roles die. [/shameless plug]

[shaft.ed]

Nominate Mirror Mafia

. Also, which mod should I check with to see if an Open Lights-Out game would be okay?

farside22 is running the Queue now.

[shaft.ed]

Paris Mafia

2 Mafia Goons
2 Mime Goons (Both mimes must die by lynching in order for the Mime Goons to win -- they share a NK)
2 Vigs
2 Cops
2 Townies

I like the mime idea. Can we do something so that a) all the town isn't destroyed in a bloodbath and b) that is acheived without making it impossible for the 2 Goons and easy for the 2 mimes.

What about?:
2 Mafia
2 Mimes
1 SK
1 Cop (finds mafia)
1 Frenchy (finds mimes)
1 Watcher
1 Bodyguard
X townies (3-5)

Also what happens to mime #2 if mime#1 is NK'd. You then have a player with no possible win condition. Does he morph into a survivor? a SK?

[shaft.ed]

You are correct, I am retarded.

[shaft.ed]

The role may help games remain civil. You never know if that immature jerk you are fighting with will turn out to be an survivor-mime whose only reason remaining for playing is to NK you.

That alone is enough reason to run it.

What I'm worried about now is the town seems to have the lynches to "waste" on the mimes. So the mimes just claim and get lynched. Could you have the town and scum win conditions based on the mimes not fulfilling their win condition such that if the mime's win it's game over?

[shaft.ed]

I dunno if this had been done before.

iGuard

2 Mafia
5 Bodyguards
1 Doctor

Daystart

Notes: If Doctor claims, bodyguards have to decide whether or not to bodyguard him - if too many bodyguard him, then the Mafia could score multiple kills - if no one, then the doctor is killed.

If the Doctor doesn't claim, then the bodyguards would want to bodyguard the better players (unless they believe no one alive's better than them). Not only do good players get to stay alive, there's a similar dilemna as above.

Comments?

Town can best protect the Doctor by circle protecting, though I don't think it's game breaking, it (or some similar mechanism) would likely be used to prevent the town from having multiple Bodyguards die in any given night cycle.

Interesting idea though.

Nominate iGuard

[shaft.ed]

I dunno if this had been done before.

iGuard

2 Mafia
5 Bodyguards
1 Doctor

Daystart

Notes: If Doctor claims, bodyguards have to decide whether or not to bodyguard him - if too many bodyguard him, then the Mafia could score multiple kills - if no one, then the doctor is killed.

If the Doctor doesn't claim, then the bodyguards would want to bodyguard the better players (unless they believe no one alive's better than them). Not only do good players get to stay alive, there's a similar dilemna as above.

Comments?

Town can best protect the Doctor by circle protecting, though I don't think it's game breaking, it (or some similar mechanism) would likely be used to prevent the town from having multiple Bodyguards die in any given night cycle.

Interesting idea though.

Nominate iGuard

Then scum can shoot themselves to cause WIFOM. The person that the bodyguard guarded is not necessarily town.

True, I was just pointing out that the possibility of multiple Bodyguards dying via protecting the same target is almost nil. Though anygame where you can get scum to self target has built in awesomeness in my book.

[shaft.ed]

This will not qualify as a standard game.

Carry on.

[shaft.ed]

I weould have made 1 person change their role to make it a scum role, though.

role =\ alignment

[shaft.ed]

okay.

nominate

then, it's a good setup.

second

[shaft.ed]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

I endorse this product and or service.

I also think giving the mimes abilities needlessly complicates things. Don't ask me when that actually started to matter to me however

[shaft.ed]

I still think the mimes should investigate guilty. Makes the town think that maybe they're a mime... Gives the scum some protection from mod confirmed sane cops, and also since BOTH mimes must be lynched to win, gives them a little help. As it is I still think the mimes chance of winning is really really low.

I endorse this product and or service.

I also think giving the mimes abilities needlessly complicates things. Don't ask me when that actually started to matter to me however

The problem is the mimes have to deal with 2 vigs and a mafia hit. Without something to protect themselves what else can they do?
I agree with Kinetic on this. I really keep thinking about this game and all I think is if I signed up I hope not to be a mime.

Drop a Vig

[shaft.ed]

Thanks, but I'm having second thoughts. I forgot that I wanted more killing roles to speed up the game. I'm worried about it turning into a lurkerfest thanks to the mimes.

Which is why Jesters are evil.

Smaller game fewer scum, three killing factions (maf/mime/vig) should be fun.

2 mafia
2 mimes (one a Doc)
1 compulsive vig
1 cop (mimes guilty, keeps the vig from claiming as he can pick off mafia and mimes at night)
1 Miller
5 Townies

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, one vig, no cop, seems much more balanced to me. As Kinetic says, that makes the whole 'what do they investigate as' thing irrelevant.

I'm not sure the Mafia should have internal Lovers, though. What about:
2 Mafia Goons
2 Mimes
1 Watcher
1 Vigilante
5 Townies

..or 2 Watchers and 3 Mafiosos.

I endorse the addition of a watcher instead of a cop.

[shaft.ed]

Adel, while that game looks fun, I think it'd be too much for a newbie mod to handle, which is a side purpose of the Open Queue. Don't think running it here is a great idea.

[shaft.ed]

What about two boats of five with 1 scum each? If mafia blow up a boat with all townies on it they win. No time to work out the percentages ATM.

[shaft.ed]

so if the watcher ever sees a Smith target another it's game over.

Interesting mechanic.

nominate with 6 vanilla, though 7 may be more balanced

[shaft.ed]

so if the watcher ever sees a Smith target another it's game over.

Interesting mechanic.

nominate with 6 vanilla, though 7 may be more balanced

The best SK strategy would be to try and find the other to improve your win %, but even then they will only ever target each other once, if ever - for the watcher to catch this sequence, the chances seem pretty low.

7 vanillas seems more balanced, with two kills per night. The SK's would never waste a kill to try and fool the town into thinking they're together when they aren't, so throwing in a pro-town protection role (instead of a 7th vanilla - I'm thinking a Weak Doc) would be a good way to balance it, as town now get deprived of knowing if they're playing against a team.

Either way I'd play this set-up.

Not a big fan of weak doc's up against single player scum since they can end a SK's game with a single "protection." Would prefer something like a bodyguard or tough townie (survives one NK attempt). Actually a townie that survives a single NK attempt would add some "have they joined forces" WIFOM to the mix.

[shaft.ed]

I don't think Cop Sanity Issues belong in a Newbie Game.

Open Setup Discussion and Nominations

[shaft.ed]

In setups with alignment change, always specify whether players should play to their current or their expected final win condition.

???

expected final, always.

We had a long discussion on this earlier. Some people thought "expected final" was obvious, others thought "current" was obvious. I don't think either is obvious.

I think people should play towards whichever faction they think is going to win the game. So pre-game everyone sends the mod a prediction of who's going to win. Players actually win the game if they predicted correctly, not if their faction triumphed.