NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER

[RichardGHP]

Confirming is for weasles.

/conform

[RichardGHP]

Vote: Prozac

Random.org told me to.

[RichardGHP]

Vote: Prozac

Random.org told me to.

Vote: Richard

Why did you decide to use random.org?

Do you have a better suggestion?

My wagon is alarming. Somebody do something suspicious so we can get out of RVS.

Hmm.

Poro and vollkan are probably both scum. Poro moreso.
unvote, vote: Porochaz

Reasons?

[RichardGHP]

vollkan, RVS stands for Random Voting Stage. What better way of participating in it than utilising a random generator?

In other news, you're living up to your title right off the bat. Are you going to be like this for the whole game?

[RichardGHP]

1) What in your view is the purpose of the RVS?
2) How does using a random generator advance that purpose?

1) It generates discussion and instigates reactions. In saying that, it hardly if ever seems to do either of those very adequately.
2) If it has a reason, it is not random, thereby missing the point of the stage's namesake. Personally, I prefer games with a night start so that RVS is much shorter or overlooked altogether. Bloody thing can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.

[RichardGHP]

What, exactly, is wrong with my RVS play?

It's called Random Voting Stage for a reason. I appreciate that following a meme to the letter may seem profoundly extravagant, but what else do you expect me to do? I can't make suspicious posts appear out of thin air. Nobody in this game is worth Policy Lynching and the one person I would want to vote for a reason has already voted for me. The only logical and feasible option is to vote for someone on a random basis.

[RichardGHP]

Very well. I'm going to concede at this point and commence minor analysis tomorrow.

[RichardGHP]

Conceding, dismissing, they both have more or less the same effect. Don't you agree?

[RichardGHP]

Well, yeah, to me I'm the most pro-town person, with Rich as second. RVS should make it obvious that Rich probably isn't scum. At least we're getting rid of a retarded RVS L-2 wagon now d(''d)

I think I'm seeing things.

[RichardGHP]

Limited Access until Tuesday, 19th of October.

[RichardGHP]

Unvote
Vote: Espeonage

This speaks for itself.

[RichardGHP]

TOWN:

vollkan
Budja
Porochaz
Parama
Untrod Tripod

NEUTRAL:

Fishythefish
JDodge
Luchris
mikeburnfire

SCUM:

Espeonage
Ojanen
Oman

[RichardGHP]

vollkan, I'm not going to answer all those.

In answer to your final question, I read each player in isolation to determine their placement in my list.

[RichardGHP]

If they make make scum-esque posts, I think they're scum. If they make town-esque posts, I think they're town. Lack of information or conflicting tells earn them a spot in the 'neutral' section.

Quite simple really; surprised you actually had to ask.

[RichardGHP]

What is a "scum-esque" post? What is a "town-esque" post?

A scum-esque post is a post that is more likely to be made by a mafioso than by a villager.
Conversely, a town-esque post is a post that is more likely to be made by a villager than by a mafioso.

Not to pre-emptively deflect, but I am fairly certain of where this conversation is headed. I am not likely to analyse any posts to justify putting a player into a particular category.

[RichardGHP]

vollkan, analysis is redundant when it comes to voting for Espeonage. ISO post # 7 for a case-in-point, and general scum-ness thus far.

I await the flood of misrepresentations.

[RichardGHP]

TOWN:

vollkan
Budja
Parama
Untrod Tripod
Fishythefish
Luchris

NEUTRAL - POST MORE PLEASE:

mikeburnfire
JDodge

SCUM:
3 of:

Ojanen
Oman
Prozac (Parroting vollkan -

word for word

)
Espeonage

[RichardGHP]

vollkan, analysis is redundant when it comes to voting for Espeonage. ISO post # 7 for a case-in-point, and general scum-ness thus far.

Whose ISO post 7?

Yours is just: "Conceding, dismissing, they both have more or less the same effect. Don't you agree?"

Espeonage's, of course.

I don't see the relevance in comparing mine with his.

I await the flood of misrepresentations.

From me?

Depends.

[RichardGHP]

vollkan, analysis is redundant when it comes to voting for Espeonage. ISO post # 7 for a case-in-point, and general scum-ness thus far.

Whose ISO post 7?

Yours is just: "Conceding, dismissing, they both have more or less the same effect. Don't you agree?"

Espeonage's, of course.

I don't see the relevance in comparing mine with his.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you meant that your ISO post 7 contained a summary of his scumminess.

One can be forgiven for such a mistake.

As an aside (and something of a given), I will happily lynch anyone on my scumlist today. Keep in mind that I'll probably be on the one with the largest wagon.

[RichardGHP]

What do you take me for? I'm not an idiot.

1. I can give reasons, if that's what you mean.
2. Why would I have someone in my suspect list if I didn't want to lynch them?
3. That is completely logical. If I'm suspicious of them, and they have the largest wagon, what possible cause could I have for NOT voting them?

HoS: vollkan

. Metagaming, anyone?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=14343 - meta precedent for 2 and 3 as requested.

[RichardGHP]

Also guys stop arguing. Town v town (As I am assuming this one is) arguments get town nowhere.

This doesn't help your cause, you know.

[RichardGHP]

Ever heard of the tell where a mafioso is playing two townies against each other?

I find the opposite to be equally scum-like (the opposite being, a mafioso trying to stop two townies fighting, thereby gaining his own self brownie points, so to speak).

[RichardGHP]

I never got around to it, vollkan. I was V/LA when the first list was made, and I seem to recall justification of each read not being a requirement from you.

[RichardGHP]

Prozac (Parroting vollkan -

word for word

)

Jesus Christ, Do you not think for a second I did that deliberately... you refused to answer him, I wanted you to know that I had wanted answers to those questions as well. I had hoped increasing pressure would have made you answer them.

I know you did it deliberately. Doesn't change the fact that you did it.

[RichardGHP]

Answer to questions and stuff... probably this afternoon.

[RichardGHP]

You failed to do so.

[RichardGHP]

Prozac (Parroting vollkan -

word for word

)

Jesus Christ, Do you not think for a second I did that deliberately... you refused to answer him, I wanted you to know that I had wanted answers to those questions as well. I had hoped increasing pressure would have made you answer them.

I know you did it deliberately. Doesn't change the fact that you did it.

Good-o. Why is it scummy?

Not only does it denote not thinking for one's self, but it's also a huge buddying tell, both of which are likely to come from scum. Correct me if I'm wrong on either count.

[RichardGHP]

You have failed to prove me wrong on either. If you don't think for yourself, the chances are you don't have to. Copying vollkan only serves to make him look more pro-town and you more pro-scum. 3/10.

I gave reasoning. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's non-existant. Nice try though, 7.5/10.

I sense an oppurtunity for a free OMGUS with that vote. Noted, and you won't be coming out of my scumlist unless you have a sudden burst of sustained pro-townliness. Expected/10.

[RichardGHP]

I think you're wrong, but I'm not going to correct you yet.

Why do you think Prozac-scum copied me?

Once Prozac-scum flips accordingly, his buddying puts you, a townie, square in the frame from the town's perspective - exactly what he (Prozac) set out to do in the first place. My suspicion of Oman takes the same premise.

[RichardGHP]

Oman, it's not buddying to

vollkan

specifically that strikes me - it's like you're trying to set up as many buddies as you can. Playful RVS votes on someone for being British and posting pictures of whoever are quite different to this. Your ISO also shows elements of coaching.

There's social playing, and then there's you. ISO Post Numbers 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 11, 13 and 15 are incirimating from my perspective. 8 out of a possible 16 is enough for me.

[RichardGHP]

Yes, really. I'll take you up on that offer of going through those posts.

Love the new avatar, by the way.

[RichardGHP]

Untrod, what is your read on vollkan?

[RichardGHP]

vollkan: No, I do not think that Oman has been buddying to you.

Oman, if you can show me a game where you played like this as town, I'll ease up.

[RichardGHP]

The game, please.

[RichardGHP]

I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a full rebuttal if he doesn't give me the meta to exonerate him.

[RichardGHP]

EBWOP:

I don't care. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a full rebuttal if he doesn't give me the meta to exonerate himself.

[RichardGHP]

Anti-prod post.

Content tomorrow.

[RichardGHP]

Predictable.

Neutral read remains.

[RichardGHP]

@Richard: please could you answer the questions posed in my last post

@RGHP: what do you now think of Espe? Of volkan? Of Prozac? Why didn't you follow up on any of these suspicions?

Scum; town; scum; no reason in particular.
Since he's on my scumlist and is the leading wagon, it makes the most sense to

Unvote; Vote: Prozac

. L-2.

Who's going to be the resident sissy that wants us to utilise all four days?

[RichardGHP]

Unless a wagon is all you want, you'll have to do better than that.

[RichardGHP]

Unvote

[RichardGHP]

Scum; town; scum; no reason in particular.
Since he's on my scumlist and is the leading wagon, it makes the most sense to Unvote; Vote: Prozac. L-2.

The way you are playing has absolutely zero information value. Why do you suspect Prozac?

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p2587124

Everything from the start of the quote tunnel to the predictable claim, inclusive.

[RichardGHP]

I'm not debating that again.

[RichardGHP]

most relevant to my opinion of town-town was the fact that the point the game totally froze upon was the predictable Esp pressure+Rich pressure momentum. Noone had interest to pursue other existing ("justified") avenues.

I hope vollkan is paying attention.

The majority of players don't know Rich's alignment, so the totality of actions say nothing about his alignment.

You could be looking at town-town or town-scum in either direction. I can see you counting this as a point in his favor, but not as the basis for a read strong enough to justify overlooking the things that "annoyed" you.

To the sentence I put in cursive: the totality of actions is just the sum of every individual's actions and scum knows Richard's alignment. I don't get your logic.
I don't get what is the difference with you finding the logic about expectedly being a focal point sound and this one unsound by principle - both are based on totality of actions. Your Luchris tell was based on totality of actions too.
If something subtle is missing from the totality of actions that would have clear scum motivation were Rich scum (some steering to other obvious targets instead of thread dying), I'm counting it as a towntell for him. The situation going dead on pressure on those 2 people (plus Esp is a townread based on his play and his pressure was lowering) indicates to me that scum is comfortable with the Rich pressure. Dying thread doesn't make pressure go away, just makes the thread have less material, makes said pressure being having more relative weight, makes people more likely to just default to that direction if deadline approaches.
That being said, I went back to look at when and how the the game slowed down, and I think my memory was having too clearcut a picture on the momentums going on at the time. Most of the Rich momentum actually came afterwards and there were more other things going on at the time than I remembered.

You have me confused with Ythill.

[RichardGHP]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

for general IoA and not answering the question posed in my ISO post # thirty-something.

To reiterate that question: Your read on vollkan,

now

. As an addendum to my original question, what do you now think of Espeonage, Prozac and Ythill?

[RichardGHP]

Whatever.

[RichardGHP]

^ That has scum written all over it.

[RichardGHP]

Now, two more and we can have a proper lynch.

[RichardGHP]

@vollkan: Is 50 points the default?

Do the three people with the most points comprise the scumteam?

[RichardGHP]

Yes, Untrod.

[RichardGHP]

How does your inability to comprehend the rules translate into UT becoming more pro-town and me more pro-scum?

It doesn't. Unvote and vote for UT please.

[RichardGHP]

And do you feel that I am scum and UT is town? That we are both scum? Or that I am just a 'deadline lynch'?

[RichardGHP]

Right.

I don't agree with you, but I can't refute that any further without clutching at straws.