Open 305 - Faith + 1 [D6] [LYLO]

[Ghostlin]

Vote: Tragedy

South park is a comedy, hence, having a name like Tragedy in a South Park Themed Open= scum.

Discuss.

[Ghostlin]

he knows why

Because you're scum and want me lynched?

I'm thinking C-Worl scum and andrew scum.

Also, policy lynching andrew is win/win even if he isn't scum.

Overtly hostile are we? Why is P-lynching Andrew win/win? A VI that is still town is still Town, isn't it?

This isn't the reaction I like to see after one pressure of a vote in RVS.

Also, scumpairs on Page 1. There'd be no concrete way you'd know that unless you were scum. It sounds like a splendid way to setup mislynches.

Unvote.

Vote: zMuffinMan

[Ghostlin]

Aw, C-Worl, I'm flattered.

<3

Also, @muffindude, What the fuck did I ever do to you?

FoS: C-Worl

Again, the response, while not as venomous and fraught with mislynches as muffin, is horrible.

To answer the random questions: I've got six or seven games under my belt on this site, and I enjoy roleplaying, TV, and walking with my dog.

[Ghostlin]

RQS: This is my sixth game over several years and I like playing all kinds of games and hiking.

I will confirm my random vote, zMuffinMan saying he knows who the scum are already is pretty absurd.
also

FoS: sanchocolates for making a RQS even though it was not needed. At that point accusations had already started flying

.

How is that scummy behavior?

[Ghostlin]

FYI: I never find it a good thing when I have at least three good suspicions of who might be scum in RVS/RQS. It's great if there's acutal scum among them, but it makes any acutal scum not among them easier to hide.

Snake: Who do you feel might be scum and why?

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin,

Overtly hostile are we? Why is P-lynching Andrew win/win? A VI that is still town is still Town, isn't it?

I don't think you've ever played with andrew before...

Also, scumpairs on Page 1. There'd be no concrete way you'd know that unless you were scum.

What does the amount of pages have to do with anything? And where did I say my reads were "concrete"?

Further, are you implying that I'm scum and andrew/C-Worl are my partners, or are you implying that I'm scum and I had something to gain by saying I think they're both scum this early?


@edmund,

zMuffinMan saying he knows who the scum are already is pretty absurd.

Assuming I did say I know who the scum are already, explain how it would be "pretty absurd".

also FoS: sanchocolates for making a RQS even though it was not needed. At that point accusations had already started flying.

I'm also going to need an explanation as to why this was scummy. Although, I was apparently beaten to the punch here by Scumhunter... and Ghostlin, too.

Nope. Never played with andrew that I recall, but he's already provided more information then some of the more infamous VIs.

To answer your second question, either is possible, but I find it more likely that you're trying to setup mislynches (andrew and CWorl) then you are trying to actively bus (the second reason).

[Ghostlin]

So you think I'm scum and andrew and C-Worl are town, and I'm trying to set up chain mislynches?

Probably. You could also be bussing one of them and not the other. Any possible conjecture of what you might be doing and who you are establishing links to is somewhat fraught with WIFOM.

Frankly, I dislike the talk point blank of "let's kill him anyway, he's a VI". Fact is, your reaction in the RVS to me seemed the LEAST TOWN (IMHO) out of all those collected. After that, I'd say C-Worl, and then Edmund.

[Ghostlin]

Probably. You could also be bussing one of them and not the other. Any possible conjecture of what you might be doing and who you are establishing links to is somewhat fraught with WIFOM.

Any answer you give may be "fraught with WIFOM", but since you're making the assumption that I stood to gain something as scum from saying I think andrew and C-Worl are scum, you should at least be able to explain how this makes sense.

What scum motivation was there behind this?

I'm all ears (or eyes) for any wild theories you want to put out there to explain why you think I did what I did (as scum).

Frankly, I dislike the talk point blank of "let's kill him anyway, he's a VI".

It's... andrew...

You called out two people as scum with absolutely no proof that either of them are scum. On page 1 of the game. It's not so much as the fact your connections to C-Worl and andrew now, there's no way to sustain that claim. None. There's no town reason to call people scum at this point of the game w/o some proof or suspicion. So either you're blowing smoke out of your butt during an RVS to see if you can get people to follow you, or you have access to information we don't. We being the townies.

It's more that you shouldn't have a reason to be lynch happy at this stage and shouldn't be calling a scum pair with nothing to substantiate such a claim.

[Ghostlin]

You called out two people as scum with absolutely no proof that either of them are scum.

Just to be clear, are you expecting proof that someone is scum before we lynch today?

Are you going to decide who we should lynch today based on proof you find or based on your feelings about the people in this game and what they say?

On page 1 of the game.

For future reference, what page am I allowed to call people scum on? 2? 3? 5?

I'm still new to this site, and this is one of those things I haven't learnt yet, but I'll be sure not to call someone scummy before I'm allowed to next time. I'll even ask permission.

There's no town reason to call people scum at this point of the game w/o some proof or suspicion.

I can think of quite a few reasons, actually, but if there's no reason for me to do it, then why do you think it was a scummy tactic?

So either you're blowing smoke out of your butt during an RVS to see if you can get people to follow you, or you have access to information we don't. We being the townies.

The need to clarify the subject "we" is noted.

It's more that you shouldn't have a reason to be lynch happy at this stage and shouldn't be calling a scum pair with nothing to substantiate such a claim.

What makes you think I'm "lynch happy"? At what stage am I allowed to be "lynch happy"? What substance do I need to call out a scum pair?

Proof=I don't know, a reason to scum hunt? You didn't really have THAT. I don't expect to have proof except for the obvious: a flip. You accused them without well, even as much as a compunctory reason except you find one of them to be acceptable as a policy lynch. That's scummy because really, you flipped out at what seems to be an RVS reason for voting. On the first vote. You snapped at the first sign of someone voting you, and now you're cross-examining me for voting you for that self same reason. You don't find that scummy? Even a little?

Look, here's the reasons I have for you doing what you did:
1) OMGUS. Null, but damn suspicious because you ratted out C-Worl without any reason at all.
2) You really hate andrew. Still null, and makes you not useful to town if your dislike of a single player is going to make you unreasonable for the rest of the game. It also gives scum something to play off of if neither of you are scum in the later stages of the game.
3) You're trying to bus C-Worl/Andrew or some combination of the two. Scummy, because it alleviates suspicion off of you.
4) You are setting up lynches. Scummy for obvious reasons.

2 null reasons, 2 scum reasons, and your reactions so far to the proceedings lend to me more of a belief you're scummy then a poor townie caught in the crossfire.

Your snark is noted.

You certainly want to lynch what is in your eyes a VI without actually caring about whether he's town or not. That makes you lynch happy in my book.

[Ghostlin]

So, Z: Who on your wagon do you think is scum and why?

[Ghostlin]

The other reason is that I wanted to attack him myself and see how he reacted. I waited until he did something else scummy and voted him.

So your scum hunting strategy is to sit back and wait for people to act "scummy" then pressure them? Is this a strategy you often employ as town?

Is this question serious, and if so, do you expect the person you asked to answer the question honestly?

No, I'm not asking this sarcastically (or rather, not entirely so), but wondering what value the question has in scum hunting since if the person is telling the truth and this is an tactic they use often as town, what does that say about the tactic itself. If it's a lie (it's not a tactic and they say it is), do you plan to use meta to confirm? And does that make the tactic more or less scummy if they use it all the time, but what you would deem incorrectly?

[Ghostlin]

I'm not convinced on andrew but anybody who can make me laugh gains townie point for now. In other news that Quil guy seemed to jump on me quickly for what was a joke question.

Unvote

I had no idea it was a joke question. And it sounded scummy to me.

zmuffin's now my top FoS

UNVOTE: C-Worl

Quil, why would ZMuffin would be your top FoS, despite he didn't call you scum? [Weird thinking..]

Also, why unvote C-Worl now and vote Muffinz? Strange!

Hrr? So, he didn't call Quil scum and Quil shouldn't be voting him because of that? That doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[Ghostlin]

unvote

in case.

got lan party FFF.

Why did you unvote here? Do you believe the person you had the vote on isn't scum? In case of what?

Anyone else seen Snake? I think I asked him a question about three pages ago and he never answered.

[Ghostlin]

lan party cancelled./
yea i dont think muffin is scum, as i said i felt that his post was like joking etc.

however...

vote amrun

Why are you voting Amrun? What reasoning do you have that Amrun is more/less town/scum then Muffin?

Muffin: are you still thinking andrew is a good policy lynch?

C-Worl: Reasoning for voting Muffin?

Snake: scum reads?

[Ghostlin]

RQS: This is my sixth game over several years and I like playing all kinds of games and hiking.

I will confirm my random vote, zMuffinMan saying he knows who the scum are already is pretty absurd.

also

FoS: sanchocolates

for making a RQS even though it was not needed. At that point accusations had already started flying.

I feel no great attachment to zMuffin's wagon. I just wanted to keep some pressure going to see how he'd react.

UNVOTE: zMuffinMan

about Quilford:
I think he lied when he said he had forgotten to vote zMuffinMan.
reason: He wouldn't say 'zMuffin now my top FoS' if he intended to vote zMuffin in the same post.
So in his next post he both lied and backtracked to appease Amrun.
His lurking makes be more inclined to lynch him.
VOTE: Quilford
@Quilford: Please comment on your "wagon".

about c-worl: Not too crazy about c-worl either, he was basically active lurking until zMuffin was at L-1, then he was suddenly trigger happy.

@GreyIce: Please give us your case on Ghostlin.
@ScumHunter: What is your case on me?

Do you feel the first bit bolded is still true? If so, what changed that made you want to release pressure? This feels like cognitive dissonance to me.

I'm meh about the Quilford wagon to be honest. I frankly do not think Amrun's scum today, and will not support her lynch unless we need a flip.

C-Worl's tunnelling, but probably town.

I acutally like the andrew/Muffin wagons still: If you read andrew, it sounds like he's waffling on someone who declared him scum in ISO 2. Read it, it's acutally rather illuminating. The dissonance there is 'I don't think your scum but you say I am so you're inconsistent, but I'm not really sure you're scum due to a guy I once know that shared a login(ish) with you.' (Later says he feels Muffin was joking.) Then he unvotes and votes Amrun--which seems to be chainsaw defending to me.

Muffin's been defending himself against most of town, but still hasn't rode or continued his case on andrew/C-Worl much besides a preemptive vote. He's also accused Amrun of scummy motives, but has yet to vote (or really FoS) her, and he's spent more time on why her motives are scummy than andrew's.

Muffin: Do you feel that Amrun is scummy, if so, how does this affect your andrew/C-Worl partnership and wagons? Also, do you feel that Amrun is more or less scummy than either of the above?

Confirm Vote: Muffin. Fos: Andrew.

[Ghostlin]

@Ghostlin: Out of curiosity, why are you mainly concerned of Andrew/C-Worl partnership/wagon, although you're on the Muffin wagon?

...Muffins.

Um...I didn't draw any connection to Andrew/C-Worl? I drew one on Andrew/Muffin since Muffin's been calling both Andrew and C-Worl scum since the beginning of game and has refused to really elaborate much on either why either of them are scum. And then right when the Amrun pressure picks up, Andrew votes Amrun, who's attacking Andrew.

Scumhunter: Quilford just jumped off the 'shitty zMuffin wagon'. What's your read on him now?

[Ghostlin]

I acutally like the andrew/Muffin wagons still: If you read andrew, it sounds like he's waffling on someone who declared him scum in ISO 2. Read it, it's acutally rather illuminating. The dissonance there is 'I don't think your scum but you say I am so you're inconsistent, but I'm not really sure you're scum due to a guy I once know that shared a login(ish) with you.' (Later says he feels Muffin was joking.) Then he unvotes and votes Amrun--which seems to be chainsaw defending to me.

hey bro, did you even read/understand my post? if not, stop misreping and talking about something you dont know about.
do you even know what a chainsaw is?
lol? has anyone flipped scum?
i dislike people that say terms like 'chainsaw', 'bussing' without any flips

I don't have another more simplified way to put point blank, 'I think you're attacking Amrun because she attacked zMuffin.' You may dislike the term, and I concede without flips that it's not a true chainsaw--however, your timing is suspicious.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: In fact you didn't really post a reason at all for your suspicions, and you've been pretty actively lurking.

If Muffin is town, what is it about Amrun that makes her scum?

[Ghostlin]

Holy hell Ghostlin is scum

...

Nvrmnd, don't feel like arguing over a player I have a null read on.

Seriously. Muffin is scummy because he tried to start a policy wagon

on Andrew94.

Does ANYTHING in that interaction suggest they're on the same scumteam?

Ghostlin's like "yes, yes, both very good wagons."

Except the moment Amrun/Muffin started debating; andrew voted Amrun, and while I guess I wasn't clued into the joke; the policy lynch comment seemed rather contrived.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: In fact you didn't really post a reason at all for your suspicions, and you've been pretty actively lurking.

If Muffin is town, what is it about Amrun that makes her scum?

I'm not amused of determining an alignment of someone who barely went very offensive over 'em.
Also, why are you so focused on the Amrun alignment if Muffin flips town out of nowhere?

I'm fishing for a case. Allow me to reword it: If Andrew believes zMuffin is not scum and thinks Amrun is scum from that conversation, why? What's the case there?

[Ghostlin]

I dropped the case on the Muffin guy bc Ghostlin isn't reading the thread. Only scum don't care about reading.

Is this seriously the reason you dropped your case against him? Seriously?

As for flaking, I've not posted anywhere, including the game I'm modding in the last 24.

Also, if anyone wants Cop tests or investigation targets, if I'm still alive today, I volunteer.

Vote: andrew

Asking him to read the thread for us is lame; we need to get wagons starting towards lynch pressure, and I ain't voting for myself and my previous reasons.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Read the thread for him, that previous post should read.

[Ghostlin]

I'm not amused when you started the RVS vote on Muffin

then just hop off after people just hopped on

,
then hopped off after he went to L-1.

WHAT?, I did not do that, that is exactly the opposite of what I did!
I RVS'ed,
confirmed when I thought he was serious about his joke,

Kept my vote

when I saw the wagon building to avoid removing pressure.
Unvoted when zMuffin had been under plenty pressure.
You're mixing truth and fiction.

Oh true, the pressure.
But why did you choose to hop out at L-1 so you could've prevented the wagon enlargement to end up like that so fast?
It's like saying what's the 'case' on me at the moment, hadn't moved my vote from Amrun since RVS [Ops.]

Vote: Edmund.angles

It's still partially true that you hopped off after he got to L-1 anyways.

Tradegy: This is a lousy case. You're not even trying, are you?

[Ghostlin]

Ghost, I can't decide if you asking to be checked by cop is an attempt to appear town or if you really think thats a good idea. Not a good idea. If you are in fact town, and cop checks you, you realize you would just be night killed then? Also, if you are being sincere then really you are narrowing down who can be cop for mafia. I don't think cop should ever be pushed to check a specific person or even a specific subset of people. All that does is aid mafia in cherrypicking night kills. Our cop is our only weapon so we need him to stay hidden until at least 1 guilty. I'd even say a cop could breadcrumb a guilty as well. An outted cop has a 75% chance to die in a vacuum if targeted by mafia. Claiming with a guilty isn't even optimal necessarily.

You're presuming I would mind being nightkilled. This is not the case.

I was going along with the 'what if'. There's really no trick here, and I expect to be investigated anyhow.

[Ghostlin]

I'm not amused when you started the RVS vote on Muffin

then just hop off after people just hopped on

,
then hopped off after he went to L-1.

WHAT?, I did not do that, that is exactly the opposite of what I did!
I RVS'ed,
confirmed when I thought he was serious about his joke,

Kept my vote

when I saw the wagon building to avoid removing pressure.
Unvoted when zMuffin had been under plenty pressure.
You're mixing truth and fiction.

Oh true, the pressure.
But why did you choose to hop out at L-1 so you could've prevented the wagon enlargement to end up like that so fast?
It's like saying what's the 'case' on me at the moment, hadn't moved my vote from Amrun since RVS [Ops.]

Vote: Edmund.angles

It's still partially true that you hopped off after he got to L-1 anyways.

Tradegy: This is a lousy case. You're not even trying, are you?

Let me elaborate this post. The case is lousy because it only works presuming Edmund jumped off the wagon to clear a scumbuddy. There's a lot of reasons for someone jumping off at L-1, namely, they placed their vote at a certain time of the game where they wanted to see what would happen if they left it on. This is usually very protown.

Folks: read Tragedy's ISO...she did vote for Amrun, but she's been questioning/accusing other folks without voting them--not usually a good sign IMO.

[Ghostlin]

So, Ghostlin.

Trying to point all the attention to me now?

Okay, it

may

clear a 'scumbuddy'. It's not 'usually very pro-town' when you have your RVS vote.. Wait, it was confirmed because of a "Joke", right..
You still can't 100% say it's Pro-town, but it's a natural thing to do, even if you're scum or town.

Out of the two of us, I'm not the one who's flailing.

You acutally didn't refute any of my points, did you? Also, your voting edmund for changing his vote at L-1 seems almost entirely driven to take the pressure of you.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Ghostlin]

Unvote. Vote: Tragedy

I'm not completely unconvinced andrew isn't scum, but the diversion and the muitiple questions/accusations without action convince me Tragedy is scum.

[Ghostlin]

Lawl that vote was AWESOME

Careful, GI, I may sheep you all game.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, you have been all over the place. Whether that makes you scum I don't know. I do know the feeling of being random and placing votes anywhere and everywhere and don't necessarily think that that in and of itself is scummy. My vote on you is largely because I disagreed strongly with your case on zMuffin.

Tragedy, is there a reason people should have been staying on the Muffin wagon? If you don't strongly feel he's mafia why would you feel strange about a bandwagon coming off him? I was trying to get people off Muffin because I thought the case on him was very bad.

What about my case on Tradegy?

[Ghostlin]

They should have jumped off of him when they realized he was at at least L-2/3.

So did they jump off too quickly, or too slowly?

In some random terms, slowly. Since they were still on it around L-3/2.

But in this case, at L-1, too quickly. Their latest posts after the Wagon Check of L-1, seemed to include an 'Unvote' from Muffinz.

Does this mean you wanted to see the Muffin wagon lynch at this point?

[Ghostlin]

What exactly is your case on Tragedy? I had initially thought she was town, but after rereading not a lot of strong town tells necessarily, but nothing to raise my eyebrows at either.

Reread 330: a lot of that is there. Her case against Edmund is non existant, and a lot of things in her ISO are fluff.

[Ghostlin]

[quote="dvdkid13"]
Yes I said that GreyIce is lurking. Because he is. I never said I had a problem with it. He's certainly not my top suspect so I don't see why I should have to vote for him.[quote]

Why did you mention it if: a) you don't find it scummy, and b) he's not one of your top suspects? (I assume if you said you never had a problem with it, you don't find it scummy.)

The rest of the post is fine, but if lurking isn't revelant, then why did you mention it at all? This...well, it's fence sitting as far as GI is concerned IMHO.

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: Fixed quote tag for readabilty purposes...

Yes I said that GreyIce is lurking. Because he is. I never said I had a problem with it. He's certainly not my top suspect so I don't see why I should have to vote for him.

Why did you mention it if: a) you don't find it scummy, and b) he's not one of your top suspects? (I assume if you said you never had a problem with it, you don't find it scummy.)

The rest of the post is fine, but if lurking isn't revelant, then why did you mention it at all? This...well, it's fence sitting as far as GI is concerned IMHO.

[Ghostlin]

Also, andrew, what do you think of the Trad wagon, and who do you think is scum?

You've seemed to disappear a little during the most revelant times of the conversation.

[Ghostlin]

@ghostlin, i hear a very faint accusation in it somewhere? perhaps accusing me of lurking?
well, david hasnt answered my question of how one of tragedy's post was a scum claim, and i have to go read your reasons

@snakpliss, why te fake vote, and dont say reaction testing, because thats beyond scummy thing to say at this time.

Yup, sort of. I'm hinting you've been less active as long as you haven't had a vote to respond to, particularly since there's been a number of people who have been active and debating.

How does David's answering your question answer the question if you know who's scum or not?

[Ghostlin]

EBWOP: 'if you know who's scum'= 'if you think who's scum'

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin , why do you even think that you can convince us that your not scum ?

This question looks like it's scum hunting, but it's not. Why do you think you can convince the rest of us you're not scum, Redcolbalt?

To best answer your question, my goal is to more find scum then to waste time convincing you that I'm not scum--or more to the point, at this point, my lynch won't hurt town anymore than any other townie's lynch. Finding possible scum>my own wellbeing or being lynched. I'm not really afraid of being lynched, thanks.

So, if you've phrased this question so I can give you a reason why I'm supposed to convince you I'm not scum (without even providing your reasons why you think so) I'm afraid that I can't provide that to you. About my case generically, the worst I've done is push zMuffin as a lynch and then went to andrew, who's still not posting and answering questions. I've been accused of vote hopping (it's day 1, I don't deny it) to having crap cases (which honestly, I disagree with).

Now, about Trad's claim:

Pros:
1) She wasn't counterclaimed, which means no one else is Eric Cartman (or she got one hell of a safe claim).
2) Pro town power role. Now that she's outed, generally she's painted a big bulls-eye on her head.

Cons:
1) Two faith healers this game---so the only way she could be counterclaimed would be someone else has Eric Cartman specifically (think about it, CCing Faith Healer at this point would only work if we got TWO other Faith Healer claims, in which case scum can play whack a mole). It's a pretty safe scum powerclaim.
2) Possible waste of a PR trying to keep her alive.

Here's my thoughts on the matter. I would recommend no one protects Trad tonight (don't tell us if you're an FH, folks)--if she's telling the truth, odds are quite likely she won't be here Day 2. (Yes, this is WIFOM--but scum usually DO kill protective PRs).

In this, I will

Unvote.

[Ghostlin]

To best answer your question, my goal is to more find scum then to waste time convincing you that I'm not scum--or more to the point, at this point, my lynch won't hurt town anymore than any other townie's lynch. Finding possible scum>my own wellbeing or being lynched. I'm not really afraid of being lynched, thanks.

So if you're town you have no problem with the only confirmed townie you know about getting mislynched?

Here's my thoughts on the matter. I would recommend no one protects Trad tonight (don't tell us if you're an FH, folks)--if she's telling the truth, odds are quite likely she won't be here Day 2. (Yes, this is WIFOM--but scum usually DO kill protective PRs).

Ok... I reread this several times trying to get my head around it but answer me this. You say if she's telling the truth about being one of our few PRs then she most likely won't be here tomorrow. So I guess my question would be along the lines of:

HOW IN JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR'S NAME IS A TOWN PR DIEING TO PROVE HER CLAIM IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM A GOOD THING? I MEAN DID YOU READ WHAT YOU TYPED? YOU WANTED THE OTHER FH NOT TO PROTECT HER SO THAT IF SHE'S TELLING THE TRUTH OUR PR WILL DIE? WERE YOU BORN RETARDED OR DID YOU WAKE UP ONE MORNING AND JUST MAGICALLY DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED TO MAGICALLY GIVE UP BEING AN INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING.

I'M SORRY BUT AN IQ TEST ISN'T LIKE A TEST IN HIGH SCHOOL. SCORING A 70 DOESN'T MEAN YOU FUCKING PASS. GIVE ME ONE GOOD REASON WHY WHAT YOU JUST SAID COULD POSSIBLY TOWN MOTIVATION, ONE GOOD GODDAMN REASON. THEN, I WANT EVERYONE ELSE TO TELL ME WHY IN GOD'S NAME THEY'RE NOT LYNCHING THE DOG FUCK OUT OF GHOSTLIN.

Seriously? Are

you

that dense? Nowhere did I actually say I believed her. Did you actually not understand that? Do you NOT understand part of the point of the game is PoE? Why am I EXPLAINING THAT TO YOU?

Now that she's outted, if the other FH doesn't protect her and scum target her (and scum would have to be dropped on their head to NOT kill her now they know what she is) she'll die. Her role will be confirmed and we won't have the eternal bullshit of going 'well, is she fakeclaiming or not?' No, a FH dying is NOT good for town. However, there's no way in hell that a scumtard is going to leave it alone being a PR that could possibly protect the Cop now that the cat's out of the bag.

There's no way to counterclaim a faith healer, unless

three

people all claim it. Which makes it infinitely safe for scum to claim FH.

So, for those of you just arriving (I'll include C-Worl because he just arrived mentally):

1) Trad just claimed FH. There are two FH's this game so counterclaim is tricky.
2) I have explained the possible motivations behind Trad's claim. I have unvoted her mostly because I expect that scum will try to kill her.
3) I asked for any other FH's in the audience not to protect Trad to confirm her claim. I believe honestly that scum are actually going to kill a PR who's entire power set is protection. That has the protown sideeffect of knowing whether or not Trad is lying--it saves the other power of the FH, we get Trad's FH tonight AND A COP INVESTIGATION without drawing the NK.
4) C-Worl called me stupid.
5) Trad outguesses the mod (I don't see why the mod wouldn't include any flavor fakeclaims. Saying that is kinda silly, considering while Eric Cartman is in South Park, I don't find that entirely reassuring since the kid once, in a Passion of the Christ fueled fit, tried to kinda...lynch Jews).

I don't believe the claim 100%, but since a PR was claimed, lynching seems like a bad idea regardless of how you shake it up (and if the other FH protects Trad tonight and we somehow get a no kill, it could help town more---but there'll be suspicion for the rest of the game).

[Ghostlin]

Redcobalt, I was not referring to previous questions. What I mean is this:

If player X is questioning Player Y, is Player Y scummy for answering?

I dislike this apologizing for experience level and blatant incorrectness on basic mafia theory, and in thread, as it's not like I've been passing out votes like candy.

Well, that depends. Player X could be scum , looking for PR's. Or... Player Y could actually be scum, and player X is trying to show the rest of the town that he is scum.

This is not an answer. If one player addresses another, is it scummy to address that question, even if you determine answering it isn't the right thing?

I would feel then , that it is alright to address that question if it would help benfit the town. I understand that you would want to protect yourself however. But overall, i would adress that question that was addressed to another person.

Ghostlin , why do you even think that you can convince us that your not scum ?

This question looks like it's scum hunting, but it's not. Why do you think you can convince the rest of us you're not scum, Redcolbalt?

To best answer your question, my goal is to more find scum then to waste time convincing you that I'm not scum--or more to the point, at this point, my lynch won't hurt town anymore than any other townie's lynch. Finding possible scum>my own wellbeing or being lynched. I'm not really afraid of being lynched, thanks.

So, if you've phrased this question so I can give you a reason why I'm supposed to convince you I'm not scum (without even providing your reasons why you think so) I'm afraid that I can't provide that to you. About my case generically, the worst I've done is push zMuffin as a lynch and then went to andrew, who's still not posting and answering questions. I've been accused of vote hopping (it's day 1, I don't deny it) to having crap cases (which honestly, I disagree with).

Now, about Trad's claim:

Pros:
1) She wasn't counterclaimed, which means no one else is Eric Cartman (or she got one hell of a safe claim).
2) Pro town power role. Now that she's outed, generally she's painted a big bulls-eye on her head.

Cons:
1) Two faith healers this game---so the only way she could be counterclaimed would be someone else has Eric Cartman specifically (think about it, CCing Faith Healer at this point would only work if we got TWO other Faith Healer claims, in which case scum can play whack a mole). It's a pretty safe scum powerclaim.
2) Possible waste of a PR trying to keep her alive.

Here's my thoughts on the matter. I would recommend no one protects Trad tonight (don't tell us if you're an FH, folks)--if she's telling the truth, odds are quite likely she won't be here Day 2. (Yes, this is WIFOM--but scum usually DO kill protective PRs).

In this, I will

Unvote.

Well, i havent been in long, so as of now their isnt much to convince people, just what the person had posted before me. However, that will change once i get going.
How would your lynch be helpful to town , if the town lynch's you for acting like scum?

PoE at the very least. I'm going to save you time and say I'm not a PR, so it would stop a mislynch of a PR now.

[Ghostlin]

Seriously? Are

you

that dense? Nowhere did I actually say I believed her. Did you actually not understand that? Do you NOT understand part of the point of the game is PoE? Why am I EXPLAINING THAT TO YOU?

Now that she's outted, if the other FH doesn't protect her and scum target her (and scum would have to be dropped on their head to NOT kill her now they know what she is) she'll die. Her role will be confirmed and we won't have the eternal bullshit of going 'well, is she fakeclaiming or not?' No, a FH dying is NOT good for town. However, there's no way in hell that a scumtard is going to leave it alone being a PR that could possibly protect the Cop now that the cat's out of the bag.

There's no way to counterclaim a faith healer, unless

three

people all claim it. Which makes it infinitely safe for scum to claim FH.

So, for those of you just arriving (I'll include C-Worl because he just arrived mentally):

1) Trad just claimed FH. There are two FH's this game so counterclaim is tricky.
2) I have explained the possible motivations behind Trad's claim. I have unvoted her mostly because I expect that scum will try to kill her.
3) I asked for any other FH's in the audience not to protect Trad to confirm her claim. I believe honestly that scum are actually going to kill a PR who's entire power set is protection. That has the protown sideeffect of knowing whether or not Trad is lying--it saves the other power of the FH, we get Trad's FH tonight AND A COP INVESTIGATION without drawing the NK.
4) C-Worl called me stupid.
5) Trad outguesses the mod (I don't see why the mod wouldn't include any flavor fakeclaims. Saying that is kinda silly, considering while Eric Cartman is in South Park, I don't find that entirely reassuring since the kid once, in a Passion of the Christ fueled fit, tried to kinda...lynch Jews).

I don't believe the claim 100%, but since a PR was claimed, lynching seems like a bad idea regardless of how you shake it up (and if the other FH protects Trad tonight and we somehow get a no kill, it could help town more---but there'll be suspicion for the rest of the game).

So let me get this straight. If Tragedy is what she claims, you see no problem with just letting scum kill her? You see no problem with a town pr dieing? Oh and OF COURSE HER GETTING KILLED TONIGHT WOULD PROVE HER CLAIM THAT'S NOT EVEN THE POINT YOU GODDAMN IDIOT. We have 3 PRs. A Cop and 2 FH. If Tragedy gets killed during the night then we just lost 1 FH and we're down to only 2 PRs remaining, the other FH and the cop. ON N1. There is no town motivation to NOT protect someone who may be a town PR. Especially since no one's counter claimed Erik Cartman. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS AND THINK WITH YOUR GODDAMN BRAIN.

OTHER FAITH HEALER; PLEASE PROTECT TRAGEDY TONIGHT SO THAT YOU DON'T BECOME THE ONLY FAITH HEALER LEFT.

Can we agree that Trad's not the lynch today and move on with the game? I'm not going to agree with you on this, and I've seen enough scum fake claim PRs, and not get killed. The fact that there are two of them makes it difficult for anyone to counterclaim PR on D1: this is a fact that Town and Scum both know, and I've already discussed the possible flavor reasons why Eric might be scum. Regardless, Trad is not getting lynched today, and I won't do it.

[Ghostlin]

VOTE: Unvote, vote Ghostlin

I do not like your responses to either trad's claim or in fact your responses to C-Worl. Only after a battering from C do you back down and agree that Trad is not today's lynch. That's scum type behaviour after losing the influence on a mislynch, especially when it looks like you've nailed a PR.

1) I independently unvoted Trad during that mess. Before that mess, even. If you're reading the thread, I go into a long explanation twice why I feel Trad isn't todays lynch. So the entire case you outlined is bogus. In fact, the argument C-Worl and I just had was about him disagreeing with what I had just said about Trad.

2) You've dodged giving out scum reads this game.

3) I'd call what you're doing active lurking.

Vote: Snake

[Ghostlin]

Whatever it takes to make you stop singing. Mr. Handy, South Park Aligned Handpuppet. I apparently (or it is believed) cheated on Mr. Garrison with Satan. I'm a vanilla townie, along with having someone's hand up my ass.

Go ahead and hammer.

[Ghostlin]

Oh, and when I die and flip VT, lynch C-Worl and Snake scum for me please.

[Ghostlin]

Bah. Go Town.