Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[The Fonz]

Damn hydras.

[The Fonz]

Up to the late teens, seen evidence of genuine scumhunting from RC and InHim that make me feel good about them.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, you have something for us, yes?

Still not UTD, had friends come from the weekend then travelled back to my folks' for Easter week.

[The Fonz]

The hell? You spend most of your post castigating Chevre, demanding to know why she's still alive, saying you haven't changed your mind on her scumminess one bit and calling her out on a new "priceless moment" - only to unvote and switch to CKD. One of these things is not like the other things.

Unvote, Vote: farside22

OH HAI, CYBERBOB CONVENIENTLY FORGETTING HIS OWN SUSPICIOUS OF CKD TO ATTACK FARSIDE FOR ATTACKING CKD!

Any town credit he may have got for attacking ckd early obviously disappears as of this post.

[The Fonz]

Up to p60. I'd say that Kmd and CyberBob were my top suspects, except that I'd expect DGB to be dead if she'd been right like that.

[The Fonz]

That's actually kinda a town tell. Most scumgroups I've been in talk at night about who looks lynchable, who will need to be killed, who's a fellow traveller... makes it harder to make that kind of mistake, imho.

[The Fonz]

Yes, talking about who's a good lynch target might stick that player's name in your head. You are unlikely to talk in that regard at night about a player who is already dead, and if you do, your partners are likely to correct you on it.

[The Fonz]

That's ridiculous. You can't call it null because of the outside possibility scum didn't discuss the most rudimentary elements of scumplay.

The problem I have here, I suppose, is no-one has done anything screamingly antitown, and there's not a scum wagon, so everything just looks like a very meh blob of people stating their positions. I'm gonna see if dead town analysis and votecounts bring anything new, because reading the game just really caused my eyes to glaze over. DGB might be a percentage lynch, so i can't see either of Kmd and CB being scum without her.

[The Fonz]

*since, not so.

[The Fonz]

First of all, why the hell would you look for connections with a MAFIA SUICIDE BOMBER?
He knew he wasn't going to survive. So the first thing on his mind was not leaving true connections/making sure to leave false ones.

Really, really fallacious argument. See my scumgroup's use of Haschel Cedricson, the vengeful goon, in Seinfeld Mafia. 1-1's usually aren't worth it for scum, so the fact that he

can

suicide bomb doesn't mean he

should

. It's an in case of emergency, break glass type thing to mitigate the damage if he does get run up. The idea that we should throw out any connections to the one dead scum when it's pretty much the only lead we have is horribly scummy.

Vote: Nacho/DGB

[The Fonz]

Oh yeah, poker's town. Can't say why right now.

[The Fonz]

Wow, fate, you FAIL. Hard.

[The Fonz]

Oh look at these JUICY reactions already HEAHEHAHAHHAH

"you FAIL Fate callin me scum"

"So the only reason I'm scum is cause I replaced scum?"


HE
H
EAHEHAHAH

ONCE I HAVE TIME TO FINISH READING THIS GAME

HEHHEHE JUST YOU WAIT SCUMBAGS

1) Katsuki was clearly town.

2) Consider the whole Antihero/Xtoxm claim farrago, which makes it very obvious Antihero was, and I am, town to anyone with more cognitive reasoning ability than your average acorn.

3) Then there's the scummy manner in which DGB tried to basically go 'LOL Scum roleblocker' in response to antihero's claim, only to find that no-one went along with her.

[The Fonz]

Right, now WoW is done: Katsuki replaced out of this game. She didn't replace out of that, where she was cult leader. My best guesses for why that happened revolve around her not actually having time to play properly, but enough time to just LOLurk through that game in keeping with her antitown WC. That or her role here was just considerably more boring. Either way, i think it's a town sign.

[The Fonz]

Yeah, so. More Nacho votes please.

[The Fonz]

Or, or... this is just a thought... more Iam votes... Just going to push that onto the table... Right there, perfect.

Iam's not a terrible wagon, but DGB is better. Also, stagnation is worse than either.

[The Fonz]

Right, Red. Your NK point is a decent one.

Okay, so I haven't done as much reading as I should have, but I'm not lynching Cyberbob today because it feels too much like a policy lynch.

Be that as it may, there are few better options before us. The only other person I feel like I'd be willing to possibly entertain would be DGB, but, boy, that would be a real gamble. I don't think you'd be up for that either.

I don't see what's policy lynch-esque about the Cyber wagon. He's tied to the dead scum more than anyone.

And while we're on that subject, everyone else completely ignored the suggestion when RC brought it up, but I still think it's a pretty good idea. What does everyone else think?

I still support this, btw.

Massclaim? We may well be in milo, so I support.
---

2) Consider the whole Antihero/Xtoxm claim farrago, which makes it very obvious Antihero was, and I am, town to anyone with more cognitive reasoning ability than your average acorn.

Let's not go crazy. You're likely town. Don't think for a second Antihero (now you) isn't just skating by on that roleclaim alone. You still owe us night action information, and I'm growing increasingly impatient with your reluctance to be open with us.

I'm completely obviously town here, and I don't like your scummy attempt to undermine me, with your underhanded 'you're reluctant to be open with us.' How? What have I been concealing? If you're talking about night actions, no-one asked. I got on with scumhunting instead. For obvious reasons, I didn't pay too much attention to my predecessor, and no-one did the usual 'Before you're caught up, please state role and night actions' thing that I expect when replacing in for a claimed player, so as far I knew, antihero had claimed everything. Targeted Xtoxm then Cyberbob twice in a row. Seriously, all you had to do was ask.

3) Then there's the scummy manner in which DGB tried to basically go 'LOL Scum roleblocker' in response to antihero's claim, only to find that no-one went along with her.

Agreed, but I was tempted.

Why? That course of action makes no sense for a scum RB.

[The Fonz]

Gaarrrgh you're right, actually. I should have waited until massclaim, would have made it harder for scum to claim, not knowing where the town RB had been.

Sorry town. I dropped the ball there.

[The Fonz]

OK, here's the thing about DGB. I get this notion that when she's scum, she tries to stay off town wagons early on, so she has more credibility later in the game. This was how she completely snowed me in War In Heaven, later in the game I ended up following her because she was pretty much the only player who didn't have a string of mislynches to her name.

She wasn't on the first big Gorrad wagon. She then jumped to Gorrad when only one other player was left on him. She then moves to Seraphim at the same time as Antihero and Werewolf are unvoting him. She sticks on Chevre for a while as the leading wagon, then goes to Gorrad, only guess what? Once Gorrad becomes leading wagon, she jumps off to plow a lonely Kmd-voting furrow. Flip flops between being the only one on Kmd and the only one on Seraphim. Admittedly, she does end up on the Gorrad wagon at the end, but only after unvoting him again for good measure. She avoids the Chevre wagon D2, despite having been on it a couple times D1.

I really need to look at the end of D1 in depth, to remind myself whether DGB really took a stand, or it was a lastminute kind of thing where her vote was needed to get the mislynch. Because the rest really looks scumDGB.

[The Fonz]

Away for most of the next few days. Due to game state, I'm really going to try to get on for five mins close to deadline.

Fate...belgh.

[The Fonz]

Unvote, Vote: KMD

Note Fate, having said that I was bussing DGB, and having KMD on his 'need to lynch' list, pushing a one-man wagon on me with deadline impending. He, as ever, is full of shit.

KMD will probably be the only viable wagon here.

[The Fonz]

There were two votes on DGB, and none on me. If you thought I were bussing, the town thing to do there was to call my bluff.

But, as ever, you are made of fail. I don't even think you're scum here. I just fucking hate you.

[The Fonz]

- iamausername and RedCoyote are on every single lynch.

Not looking good RC, not looking good at all...

- The Fonz on both the KMD and DGB wagons. If he's claimed double voter and I haven't seen it, I apologize. I plan to read over his posts in a bit.

No, mod error, I clearly unvoted DGB to vote KMD due to deadline.

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

If so, we need to agree beforehand that the vig claims vanilla.

Fonz, it's looking even worse for you now that you're absent.

Yeah, because only scum have fucking job interviews. I mean, I don't get what looked bad in the first place. Your post reads like a scum who killed DGB so he could say 'Look Fonz did it!'

[The Fonz]

Town roleblockers are risk/reward. If they're onto the scum, they can be effective, but then, scum won't send someone who the RB suspects to do the kill anyway. Add in the fact that I thought Bob was scum ONLY IF DGB WAS, and DGB ends up dead town... yeah.

Vote: Pokerface

The above argument is compelling, despite my meta feelings on Kats.

[The Fonz]

We need to massclaim pretty much before we do anything else.

[The Fonz]

But that's okay because as scum, you'll latch on to that to make me look scummy and get an easy lynch out of it.

Vote: RedCoyote

Easy lynch? You suck.

I have no problem with the lynch being on me if that's what the town decides is the best action.

I know I really haven't brought anything to the table. It's been awhile since I've replaced in to a game longer than 20-30 pages.

Now we're going to go with 'look how noble and self-sacrificing I am?'

[The Fonz]

Has everyone claimed yet?

[The Fonz]

Thought so. And then I claim my block.

Jesus Christ, why is it so hard to conduct a nice, clean, quick massclaim nowadays?

[The Fonz]

hmm actually fonz saying who he blocked also stops any vanilla from claiming vig later on. What he says can stop scum from faking later if needed. meh its your call fonz

I'm pretty indifferent. Whatever I do, RC will call it scummy . Happy to let the town decide.

My immediate feeling with Korlash claiming vanilla is that I would expect town to have some kind of investigative role other than the hider, especially with a scum bomb.

[The Fonz]

Hang on. Wait a second.

Iam, if you were only two-shot, why did you not claim IMMEDIATELY that you got your second result?

[The Fonz]

PF, there IS a godfather listed on the first page.

[The Fonz]

And a weak modifier would show up in the flip, yes?

yes

[The Fonz]

Weak appears on the actual role pm flip, but not on the first page, which can be confusing. I don't think either side can be seen as scummy for relying on the source they did, this argument is a complete waste of breath.

I can kind of see the sense in waiting if Iam thought there would be a massclaim... yesterday was such a clusterfuck, with everyone pretty much spending most of the day debating the merits of massclaim, and not actually massclaiming, nor engaging with arguments about scumminess, until suddenly there was a deadline and a default wagon.

[The Fonz]

Actually, Fate, what little respect I had for you increased when you actually changed your mind on something. Maybe if you didn't go 'TROLOLOL YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT' to everyone you happened to think was scum at a particular time, you'd make life easier for yourself.

And thinking about it, you're right and have allayed some of the second guessing I was doing. There's just no good reason to wait to use investigations.

[The Fonz]

Meh, the 'innocent' thing on its own could be a coincidence. People habitually say 'guilty' or 'innocent' whatever the actual wording of their result pm. But in combination with two other odd things, I think not.

[The Fonz]

Hey Iam, WIFOM.

My gut reaction to believe him is pushing against my strong LAL instinct. Hmmm.

[The Fonz]

I still am thinking of one between Iam and RC and it's not because they are attacking me. They were on the bandwagon of every lynchee every single day of this game.

At least one, if not both, are scum.

Very noobish kind of argument. How often do two scum behave in the exact same manner all game?

[The Fonz]

It's possible, but I don't think it's likely, and I sure as hell wouldn't use it as a basis for an argument.

[The Fonz]

Korlash hasn't voted for a single lynch all game and unfortunately, neither has my slot.

Ding ding ding scumtell.

[The Fonz]

Sure. Everyone who's played has either lynched townies or no-one at all. The latter is scummier, especially on the part of Korlash who doesn't have the excuse of being a replacement whose predecessors often weren't around at deadline like you do.

As for yesterday, it was either kmd or no-one. I was under the impression it was no lynch at deadline- the deadline rule in the first post certainly reads that way.

[The Fonz]

RC, I'm not being Macro because I have a hard time getting purchase on anything this game. Broadly, I think you're town, because the way you scumhunted and yes, attacked Antihero early on

looked like something town would do,

and though dead scum attacking you could be a bus, it's more likely not to be.

I highlighted the Korlash scum tell (LOL it says something about Starbuck as a person when she attacks you for agreeing with a scumtell she herself found) because he's basically been my perfectly neutral read all along. That's the first real thing i've seen that's a strong indicator either way.

Iam I lean towards believing, at least for today.

That leaves Poker, Fate, and Starbuck. Star's hard to read because Runner read scummy to me, Weatherman town, and now Starbuck's just retreating into her little fortress of massive omgus. Fate, I just find it nigh on impossible to separate my thoughts on his alignment from my utter hatred of his playstyle, but if I had to bet my life on one or other, I'd say this is town Fate.

So Poker would be no1, and I can live with a Starbuck wagon.

[The Fonz]

That leaves Poker, Fate, and Starbuck. Star's hard to read because Runner read scummy to me, Weatherman town, and now Starbuck's just retreating into her little fortress of massive omgus. Fate, I just find it nigh on impossible to separate my thoughts on his alignment from my utter hatred of his playstyle, but if I had to bet my life on one or other, I'd say this is town Fate.

Since you're betting your life on it, metaphorically speaking, why is this town Fate?

Gut. It just doesn't feel any different to how he normally plays. I didn't say 'I'd be willing to bet my life on it' I said if I had to, that's the way I'd go.

RC, I'm not being Macro because I have a hard time getting purchase on anything this game. Broadly, I think you're town, because the way you scumhunted and yes, attacked Antihero early on looked like something town would do, and though dead scum attacking you could be a bus, it's more likely not to be.

What about his switch off of bob and onto KMD yesterday?

[/quote]

I need to go back and look at the timing of it specifically. To be honest, I can't remember very much about anything yesterday other than what I thought, and that I was pissed off with Fate.

[The Fonz]

@Korlash: You're right, RC's vote for Kmd is based on a really weak point, compared to his consistent attacking of CB. Also, he tries to accuse the Bob wagon of being a 'policy lynch' which wasn't true, and is also a very common argument scum use to defend buddies. Man, I'm torn again now.

Starbuck feels like her irritating, self-righteous, snarky town self here. Star, can you provide some scum meta?

[The Fonz]

No, Fate's saying you're scum. And you knew that.

[The Fonz]

Starbuck. Just fucking stop it already. You look to me like you're

deliberately

doing all the things bad townies do to get themselves mislynched. 'This guy is calling me scum, he's scum.' 'This guy is calling me scum and I'm not, so he's lying.'

[The Fonz]

Starbuck, there is simply no way that you are that stupid.

[The Fonz]

OK, here's the problem I have.

Fate and Starbuck both seem to be playing consistently with town metas that I absolutely despise (Capslocking douchebag vs snarky condescending bitch), and reading either of them is made even harder by them throwing them at each other. To be honest, these are the two playstyles I hate most on the site, and I wouldn't have replaced into the game if both were in it already.

I'm leaning despite my usual theory positions to Iam being genuine. That means, even if I'm right on Poker, and I think I am (today he feels like he's posting just enough and with roughly enough content to sit firmly in the middle of the pack) then either one of them is scum putting it on, or my earlier town read on RC goes in the shitter. But Fate's attacking the way he does as town or scum, and Starbuck's responding in exactly the kind of way I'd expect her to respond. I find it incredibly hard to split the two.

So, please, come wagon Poker with me.

[The Fonz]

Gaaah, I just wrote a long post outlining the best town plan, if only RC can be persuaded out of his tunnel to go along with it. Basically:

No lynch
I block Poker, RC kills Starbuck

Possible outcomes:

Starbuck flips scum, game over, yay!
Starbuck flips scum, game not over. If RC still alive, lynch one of me and PF then shoot the other. If RC dead, endgame between me, Iam, and PF.

Starbuck flips town:

Nolynch. Iam investigates me. RedCoyote does not shoot. Not even RedCoyote could come up with a scenario in which I'm both RB and Godfather. If Iam is blocked or killed, then lynch me. This will not happen.

Starbuck flips whatever, and anyone other than her dies and the game goes on: lynch me. This won't happen.

[The Fonz]

Actually, nah, screw that, this is easier.

Vote: Starbuck

RC shoots

me

. I will block poker. Then lynch Poker in the morning.

[The Fonz]

Of course it works for you, it guarantees you win regardless of your alignment.

It's also letting RC have his cake and eat it.

[The Fonz]

It's true, I couldn't. As I said, you and Fate were both playing in a manner that was depressingly familiar.

More to the point: Do you believe Iamausername is scum? Because RC simply isn't. I'm as annoyed by his attacks on me as you are by his on you, but THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIM SCUM. If not, then you should have no problem with this plan, which allows us to eliminate you as a suspect and still kill off me and poker.

[The Fonz]

Also, starbuck, note that I had AMPLE opportunity to hammer you yesterday if I had so wished.

[The Fonz]

Woo quicklynch! See you in postgame. Don't lose your nerve on poker if it gets that far, red.

[The Fonz]

Zazie syndrome or scum unwilling to concede? Well, we'll see.

[The Fonz]

Refers to Choose Carefully Mafia, when I constructed a plan that guaranteed a town win. Zazie nonetheless railed at me because it involved lynching

her

. Bear in mind, I've volunteered to be vigged here.

You know that we only 'fail' if Iamausername is the scum, right?

[The Fonz]

*him. I keep forgetting that Zazie was a fake girl.

[The Fonz]

But what if Iam isn't the scum? Then your plan is faulted.

It's like you can't control your omgus instinct, no matter how obviously logical and protown my plan is. I'd take a plan that allows me to ensure the death of my top two suspects and leaves alive only one player who could POSSIBLY be scum anytime.

[The Fonz]

Oh yeah, @RC: If there IS a tomorrow, it has to be poker. If it's Iam, he'll kill you overnight.

[The Fonz]

True. If Starbuck has any compelling reason to think it's Iam and not Poker, come out with it.

(Though that said, it's pretty much already too late. Alea Iacta Est).

PE: Starbuck you fucking moron, REDCOYOTE IS VIGGING ME TONIGHT, AND I CAN'T STOP HIM WITHOUT REALLY OBVIOUSLY OUTING MYSELF.

But keep the omgus flowing.

[The Fonz]

If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm scum. But I won't be.

[The Fonz]

GRRRRRRRR.

He'll only be blocked IF I DO IT.

IF I DO IT, IT WILL BE FUCKING OBVIOUS, BECAUSE I WON'T BE DEAD.

[The Fonz]

Yes. But what that tells me is that you are a moron, because there is absolutely no way I come out of this alive as scum. I have promised to RB Poker, RC has committed to vigging me. If either defects, they are scum. But RC isn't scum, and nor am I.

[The Fonz]

Unless Iam or RC are completely lying about their roles.

RedCoyote is not lying about his role. Jesus christ. Do the words 'proven vig' mean nothing to you?

Iam might be, but that's a risk i'm willing to take. You can't lynch

everyone

, and at some point you have to choose between people and say one is town and another is scum. I am say iamausername is town. I'm willing to bet the game on it. If I'm wrong, sobeit. It happens. I really don't think I am, though.

[The Fonz]

Yesterday, you said Fate and I were both town and you were wrong.

No. I did not say that. You are lying. I said both of you were playing to your metas, and I had a hard time deciding between you. I said I was more confident of Poker being scum than either of you, and I was. And even if I did, so fucking what? I'm not going to stop trying to work out who the scum is because I was wrong once.

If you actually are town here, then you're the most assholish, deliberately-misrepresenting town I've ever seen.

[The Fonz]

My poor Fonzarelli, please don't torture yourself any longer with this.

Just make sure you put me out of my misery if Starbuck is just an asshole and not scum, mmmkay?

Wait a sec...

scum can't win!

if RC is town and username is scum and I get lynched, then RC and iam cross kill during the night and its a draw!

If username is scum, game will end overnight. RC will kill me, username will kill RC, leaving you and username.

Again. Red and I are betting the game on Iamausername being town. We are comfortable with this.

[The Fonz]

I'll leave it up to red. He should still shoot me if he thinks I'm more likely to be scum than Iam, because I don't want to go to endgame with him still thinking I'm scum. He has the opportunity to clear whichever of me and IAAUN he's less sure of by killing said player. I will block you, poker, and let the chips fall where they may (unless Starbuck is annoying scum fucking with us).

[The Fonz]

Well, while the thread is open, Fonz, who did you block the night before last anyways?

Korlash.

[The Fonz]

Fact fonz blocked read to stop and kill and that there still was a kill. This clears fonz

Except that if I were a scum rb who can both kill and rb, i could just not kill to frame Iam.

Poker's behaviour here suggests he is BP scum, who wants to leave open the 'Fonz is scum' door tomorrow. Because if that's the case, Red's kill will fail, and his first suspicion will be of me, because I won't be able to prove I DIDN'T shoot him.

[The Fonz]

*didn't block him.

[The Fonz]

Of course you'd prefer that scenario, because then you get to be in username's position.

No, that would put him in my position of getting vigged.

Iam himself explained that me being scum able to do both makes no sense- i would have either blocked or killed him, since at the very least you can't think i'm both rb and gf- but seriously, whatever you need to do. If you can't be confident in my towniness without killing me, then kill me.

[The Fonz]

but seriously, whatever you need to do. If you can't be confident in my towniness without killing me, then kill me.

Poker, the problem is if I try to WIFOM out of being killed now, then this whole business will have made sense for scum. It's be great if RC trusted me, but he doesn't and isn't going to. Therefore, the best I can do is to concoct a situation in which his fears are assuaged, and hope I guess right between you and username.

[The Fonz]

when did I ever suspect you or antiihero of being scum? I'd be dumb as hell to try that.

Explain what other option you would feasibly have, when the plan as constructed ensures your death tomorrow if you're scum. You said yourself, you never give up as any alignment. Is there anything else more likely to result in your survival than this?

[The Fonz]

Whether his fears are reasonable or not, they exist. I've pulled some huge gambits as scum in my time.

[The Fonz]

Again, would anything else work better? Don't go 'It's unlikely to succeed' if you can't demonstrate that another course has the possibility of succeeding.

[The Fonz]

Poker, look at it this way. I'm blocking you either way, it's out of my hands. I'm therefore committed to not stopping RC if he wants to kill me, and I can live with that. (Well, I

can't

, but you know what I mean). You can continue to try to convince Red that I'm town if you wish. The block poker, shoot Iam scenario is ideal from my POV because town can't lose, but I understand Red's concerns and I can live with him thinking I'm more likely scum than Iam. I just want to ensure that he knows that day dawning tomorrow will mean Pokerscum, 100% certainty.

[The Fonz]

Red, Poker's math is correct. Me blocking Poker and you shooting Iam and me blocking Poker and you shooting me both allow us to remove two suspects. In either case, if there's a tomorrow it's poker and not the one you didn't shoot who's scum.

[The Fonz]

Fonz you are town

Who do you think is more scum, than me or username?

thats who red should kill. if game ends with iam aimng a gun at my head as I can't do anything since town blocker is dead I will be pissed

NO.

Because what you say today makes me worry about the possibility of BP. Top suspect should be blocked, SECOND suspect should be shot.

[The Fonz]

Poker, look at it this way. I'm blocking you either way, it's out of my hands. I'm therefore committed to not stopping RC if he wants to kill me, and I can live with that. (Well, I

can't

, but you know what I mean). You can continue to try to convince Red that I'm town if you wish. The block poker, shoot Iam scenario is ideal from my POV because town can't lose, but I understand Red's concerns and I can live with him thinking I'm more likely scum than Iam. I just want to ensure that he knows that day dawning tomorrow will mean Pokerscum, 100% certainty.

why the hell do you think I, pokerface am scum?

If day dawns, it's certain. If the unblocked, unshot player is scum, then he will shoot, and the game will be over.

AS for why I think it's you, gut mostly, some flying under the radar, and my instinct is that Iam's bad claim looks like an honest mistake.

[The Fonz]

you are not second suspect. You aren't any kind of suspect in my book.

If Star ain't dead scum then one of IAM or myself has to die and fonz should live

Look, it would be great if Red was inclined to trust me for any reason other than the fact he's about to shoot me, but he doesn't. C'est la vie. I'm still blocking you.

No, see, this is why I still think you're scum, you clever man. You're discounting your own block here. Yeah, the first night works. We could eliminate username, then it would be us three. After that, we could all agree to NL, which is fine and dandy, but then you still have your block. All you would have to do is block me and kill whoever you wanted. Therefore, we'd only be actually eliminating username as a suspect (as opposed to you + PF).

Except that, you know, why on Earth would we no-lynch there? You can eliminate the second of three by LYNCHING HIM tomorrow. The situation is exactly the same w/r/t me as it is with Username. If I'm scum, and I'm not, I'm shooting you tonight. If you were to shoot Iam tonight, then the situation tomorrow if there is a tomorrow is exactly the same as if you shoot me: Poker is scum. The question is, who do you think is more likely scum, username or me. Shoot that player. It's that simple. And I'm at peace with the idea that you think it's me, I'm just hoping Poker is pulling a great acting performance here and I've not fucked the town over. I still think that's the likely scenario.

[The Fonz]

Meh, it's in RC's hands. I'm logging off now.

[The Fonz]

As you wish.

If Iam turns up scum, I am never letting another liar off the hook, though.

[The Fonz]

aGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGH

LYNCH ALL LIARS.

[The Fonz]

Shoulda known something was up when the claimed cop who could investigate that night didn't die.

Actually, the really big mistake was RC claiming vig BEFORE we'd got Iam to claim his innocent.

[The Fonz]

You always seemed to have at least one of RC and me above Iam, Starbuck. At no point did you have him at number one.

[The Fonz]

Iam was ascetic? Ach well, even if i'd RBed him, it wouldn't have worked. For town to win would have needed RC to accept i was town, and that was just never happening.

What if the hider targeted Iam?

[The Fonz]

Though if I had to award an MVP, it would definitely go to iamausername for his fakeclaim.

Are you of the opinion that he

deliberately

fucked up his claim in a way that would look like a town mistake?

Ascetic: You are immune to all active abilities except kill.

.

Surely the effect is to basically roleblock any nonkilling role that targets? In which case, the hider should live.

I agree that ascetic is underused, incidentally. (Still think 'invisible townie' is a better label).

[The Fonz]

Gosh, I can't tell you guys how disappointed I am. I'm downright depressed. I didn't want to lose this game. I spent a lot of time considering every one of my decisions, especially that last one. I can sit here and say that I suspected Fate and username as scum at some point, but the truth is it was never anything I took serious enough to change my mind. It was the kind of suspicions that we all have of everyone at some point. That freaking claim is what did it. The town had zero investigative roles (aside from the Hider). That's just not a very common practice for a game this size, and I couldn't get around that point.

No, but having all of investigative/roleblocking/protective/killing in the same town is also uncommon.

Scum Roleblocker and Odd-night Cop made more sense to me than a town Roleblocker and a scum Ascetic(?). Fonz was hesistant to choose between Starbuck and Fate.

Sure. Like I said, I despise both playstyles and both were playing to them. Not only did it make it hard to read, but it was also demoralizing.

He wasn't confirmed town for his claim any more than username was, PF.

No, but I didn't lie about my claim either. Nor did I get the format of the results wrong. Nor did the player most suspicious of me die overnight when I myself was the obvious choice.

Antihero outted our Hider (he had good intentions for doing so, but that didn't necessarily mean he was town).

Actually, it did. You should have listened to those who talked about the possible motives for that action. Town RB, seeing someone he'd roleblocked hinting information, is of course going to think that player's lying scum. A scum roleblocker is not going to out himself because of either a) a town power role that he hadn't anticipated or b) a town gambit that was inevitably going to blow up in said town player's face sooner or later. Or, you could have listened to Iamausername himself. It made absolutely no sense for me to neither kill nor RB IAAUN if I were scum RB, because an innocent on a non-vig there would have basically won the game for town.

I was kinda fretting at the end, because poker behaved EXACTLY the same here as he did in choose carefully, when I similarly thought him scum and he was town. But in the end, I think I did as well as I could given RC's tunnel on me to make sure town could take out 2/3 of the unconfirmeds that weren't me. Poker pleading with you to vig Iam and not me should have been obviously coming from a town place - it made no difference whatsoever to Poker's own chances of survival.

[The Fonz]

I'm curious Iam, why did you not claim to have used the two shots immediately? Didn't fit with your suspicions?

[The Fonz]

I was kinda fretting at the end, because poker behaved EXACTLY the same here as he did in choose carefully, when I similarly thought him scum and he was town. But in the end, I think I did as well as I could given RC's tunnel on me to make sure town could take out 2/3 of the unconfirmeds that weren't me.

Look, friend, you can beat me up all you want, but I'm pretty sure we both saw eye-to-eye on the prospect of our willingness to lose this game if username was town here.

Initially. But that entire plan was framed around the notion that you were utterly, irredeemably tunneled on me, and that there was absolutely nothing I could do to get around that, so I had to come up with a plan to give the town the best chance of winning despite it. I was pretty much boxed in once Poker started to look town, because the only way to save the town in the scenario where poker was also town was to argue for my own survival, and I fully expected if I did that that you'd think the whole thing was a gambit and want to kill me even more. It wasn't worth the stress, so I left it in your hands. At the end of the day, there's only so much you can do.

All I ask RC is to give me a fair chance when I'm not replacing into an 80+ page game.

Well, all we asked is that you actually put some effort into replacing into this game, and not just go 'I'm not going to contribute.

Vote: Whoever said it was scummy I'm not contributing.

' Look, I had a really hard time getting into this one too, as I said. The noise:signal was off the charts. But it's my philosophy in general that when people decide to go 'I'm going to be as antitown as possible and dare you to lynch me' that I do (though to be fair, I my main reason for suspecting you the day after Fate's flip had very little to do with you, and everything to do with Fate's meta for hardcore bussing).