Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[iamausername]

VOTE: Antihero

This is a serious vote, with serious reasons, and serious repurcussions.

[iamausername]

Antihero has a post restriction. In that he is restricted to always make scummy posts. Because he's scum.

[iamausername]

Xalxe is also scum.

[iamausername]

Ah, that's better.

iam: Based upon what precisely?

Have a guess.

[iamausername]

Cyberbob, I have to agree with your stance on iamausername's Post 92. Why in the world would Xalxe want to dictate why she herself was scummy?

The theory goes like this:

A town player, asked to examine their own play and try to reason out what they could possibly have done to merit suspicion would approach the question from a very different perspective than a scum player, because the scum player knows the suspicion is justified, while the town player knows it is not.

I was also hoping to illicit some kind of reaction from farside, since she should find the above paragraph rather familiar. But it looks like she's missed or ignored the whole thing.

That being said, iamausername, you need to explain why you believe Xalxe to be scummy.

If you say so. I'm actually not so suspicious of Xalxe any more, his response when I asked him to produce a case on himself looks more like a town response.

As for where the suspicion came from in the first place, here is Xalxe's first post in the thread:

Deadline added to OP (5 weeks).

Also, Xalxe PMed me that he will be V/LA until 1/23 (Sunday).

But since I have no school today, I'm here for a bit.

So, thoughts on the 4 pages so far:

nocase and InHim: WTF? Don't fakeclaim post restrictions. Had I been around, I'd have voted nocase instantly. I still haven't really seen reasoning behind the fakeclaims.
DGB: DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN--er, hey there, how you doin?
Korlash: Nice to see you again. I really mean that I knew you existed and then disappeared, so hi.
Dutch one: I really, for your sake, hope you can keep up with this shit. It gets crazy fast.
Chevre: is there anywhere better your vote could be right now?
SpyreX: could you explain the Gorrad vote?

P-EDIT: DGB, I'm camping 2 hours away, hence v/la.

"Had I been around I'd have voted nocase instantly" - What was stopping him from voting nocase here? He says himself that he hasn't seen any reason for nocase/inHim's fake PRs, so if they would have earned a vote when they were made, why don't they earn a vote now?

Also, he asks Chevre if there's anywhere better he could put his vote, but Xalxe isn't using his vote at all, so maybe he should remove the plank of wood from his own eye.

---

Could someone maybe summarise the parts of Chevre's ridiciulous post that are actually relevant and not explaining how the game of mafia works? I already know how the game of mafia works. That post was like the most tl;dr thing I've ever seen.

poofling lol

sounds like a miniature homosexual.

However, I do know that anything that seems out-of-the-ordinary or not seeming to benefit the town is scummy.

---

In other news, Dutch is super town. RedCoyote is good people too.

[iamausername]

Whoever posts next, please explain in nine words or more why you are not voting Antihero.

tia

[iamausername]

xalxe's posts are so cynical and sneakily light on actual scum-hunting-related content that i find it difficult to believe that they're coming from the perspective of an uninformed townie trying to find scum.

I would enjoy proof.

OK, I guess I was right in the first place. Xalxe

is

scum.

---

Someone asked me what I thought of Gorrad and CKD. Gonna have to cop out on a CKD read, he's entirely under my radar at the moment. I don't mean that he's lurking, just nothing in his posts has given me any particular opinion one way or the other on his alignment.

My immediate thought on Gorrad's fluff-posting early on were "He's still playing like it's 2008!", and lo and behold, I looked up his post history, and he has played in precisely one (1) game since the end of 2009. We used to be so inefficient.
I'm not going to absolve him of all his sins on that basis; his vote on Cyberbob is a bad vote for bad reasons. But there are bigger fish to fry as far as I'm concerned.

[iamausername]

Oh hey I forgot to mention that I was going to be away for a couple of days. Well that's done now.

curiouskarmadog - 1 - farside22
Jerbs - 1 - Dutch one
Antihero - 1 - iamausername
nocase - 1 - Gorrad
Dutch one - 1 - curiouskarmadog
farside22 - 1 - Cyberbob
SpyreX - 1 - Korlash
Katsuki - 1 - Dutch one

Players not voting: Runner, Kmd4390, inHimshallibe

This is bad. All of these people should probably pick one of Chevre and Gorrad, or do a much better job of pushing their current vote, realise that still nobody cares, and then pick one of Chevre and Gorrad.

Cyberbob already did a pretty good job of explaining why Antihero is scummy, and I would like to redirect attention to that, read it here. But because that was a long post, I feel like the most salient point may have been missed by a lot of people:

Voting without giving a good reason? Sounds like a poofling to me.

This after he has voted Korlash, giving the reason of "It's fun to watch scum fail", and then Seraphim, giving the reason of "Read post 69; it's a doozy". This ably demonstrates that these two votes were not Antihero voting without reasons because he understands that this is a useful town approach, they were Antihero voting without reasons because he is trying to fit in with the cool kids.

Antihero didn't address this point in the slightest when Cyberbob brought it up, either.

Here are some reasons why I would also be more than happy to vote Xalxe:

Deadline added to OP (5 weeks).

Also, Xalxe PMed me that he will be V/LA until 1/23 (Sunday).

But since I have no school today, I'm here for a bit.

So, thoughts on the 4 pages so far:

nocase and InHim: WTF? Don't fakeclaim post restrictions. Had I been around, I'd have voted nocase instantly. I still haven't really seen reasoning behind the fakeclaims.
DGB: DEAR GOD NOT AGAIN--er, hey there, how you doin?
Korlash: Nice to see you again. I really mean that I knew you existed and then disappeared, so hi.
Dutch one: I really, for your sake, hope you can keep up with this shit. It gets crazy fast.
Chevre: is there anywhere better your vote could be right now?
SpyreX: could you explain the Gorrad vote?

P-EDIT: DGB, I'm camping 2 hours away, hence v/la.

"Had I been around I'd have voted nocase instantly" - What was stopping him from voting nocase here? He says himself that he hasn't seen any reason for nocase/inHim's fake PRs, so if they would have earned a vote when they were made, why don't they earn a vote now?

Also, he asks Chevre if there's anywhere better he could put his vote, but Xalxe isn't using his vote at all, so maybe he should remove the plank of wood from his own eye.

In Post #294, Xalxe makes this comment:

I would like explanations on their votes from the following players:

-Katsuki
-werewolf555
-iamausername
-curiouskarmadog

Failure to answer will result in bonus scumpoints. Answering for them will result in scumpoints for both.

If there are any questions I missed, or any important points that need to be brought to my attention, speak now.

I have pointedly failed to justify my vote on Antihero before now, and also psychically influenced Cyberbob to answer for me. Xalxe has failed to follow up on any of this in any way. This is fake scumhunting.

Post #313: I do not believe this is a town response to nocase's post. It's a classic tell of a liar; an innocent party will say "you're wrong" or "that's ridiculous" or "fuck you", attacking the accusation itself, wheras a guilty party will say "you can't prove it" or "how can you be so sure?", attacking the

evidence

of the accusation. Xalxe's post here falls pretty squarely in the latter camp.

After that, his posts devolve into this:

I believe everyone on Seraphim and Jerbs should remove their votes and join us in lynching chevre.

Wait, why the Seraphim switch?

I'm still content with chevre.

chevre.

Seriously.

Well, for now, just lynch chevre IMHO, mmkay?

Less idle chitchat, more chevre lynching.

Also, vote chevre jerbs and antihero (if you're not already)

I have an idea. Let's lynch chevre!

FTFY

If he's that vociferous about this lynch, he must have a super amazing case for it, right?

farside22, yes, I honestly now do think my vote could be relocated. I just keep forgetting to do so, but I will not forget this time.

Unvote. Vote: Jerbs

Bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Bullshit.

I like this wagon. Let’s see if it survives until page 12.

Yeah, no, that's it. That's Xalxe's entire case.

---

Unvote

VOTE: Xalxe

I like this one better, actually.

p.s. as per above, I'll be picking Gorrad when this post inevitably fails to attract anyone to a Xalxe/Antihero lynch, because Chevre is obvtown.

[iamausername]

I applaud [Gorrad] for not attempting to place every one of nocase's posts in a negative light

RedCoyote, I applaud you for successfully rerouting the orbit of Jupiter to prevent a catastrophic collision with the Moon.

[iamausername]

iamausername, that doesn't really help anything. Could you please explain it?

I quoted a post where RedCoyote applauded Gorrad for not attempting to place every one of nocase's posts in a negative light, and congratulated RedCoyote for something that he did not actually do. Is it really that difficult to find the hidden meaning in that comment?

This is bad. All of these people should probably pick one of Chevre and Gorrad, or do a much better job of pushing their current vote, realise that still nobody cares, and then pick one of Chevre and Gorrad.

WELL HOW ABOUT THAT

Unvote

VOTE: Gorrad

[iamausername]

Here was a link I was thinking of when I said wolf can do better: newb

Yeah but, yeah but, ongoing games and all, it's a good example but I'm not totally convinced.

That game is over. That is a newbie game where the mod didn't change the title. He does have an ongoing game he was active. The modkilled game he is bitter about was a misreprep........also avoiding a game is not a town tell

I think what DGB is saying is that, in spite of your example, she finds the case on werewolf unconvincing due to [ongoing game]. I agree with this assessment entirely, except for the part where she's marked RedCoyote as one of the scum on that wagon. Although he is more likely than Chevre or dutch one, at least.

[iamausername]

OK, well if we're going to go ahead and talk about the ongoing game, let's get all the facts on the table. werewolf was modkilled and

turned into a neutral survivor

, meaning that he has lost that game, however it turns out. Of course he's going to be bitter about that. I think he is well within his rights to be bitter about that.

I don't like the werewolf lynch one bit, and I especially don't like the way certain people are characterising his obvious newb confusion about what exactly constitues a modkillable offence as a malicious attempt to get farside modkilled to further a scum win condition. That's patently ridiculous, and I have a hard time seeing it as a good faith argument.

[iamausername]

Hey all, super V/LA right now. Should hopefully be able to get a half decent post later today, then I'll probably have no access at all until Friday.

After that I'm moving in with my girlfriend, who does not yet have internet, but I'll get a start on sorting that out when I'm up there Tuesday to Thursday, so hopefully it won't take long before I'm back in action. Cheers!

just in case I need to bold text to make the mod read it:

Mod: mark me down as V/LA for the next week

[iamausername]

VOTE: Antihero

Gonna take the time to reread the thread and get some decent analysis done while I have the chance today, but I don't see a great chance of my vote going anywhere else at the end of it.

[iamausername]

Update on my moving/internet situation; activation date is Monday 21st, so I'll have pretty much no access next week. (I can get on with my phone, but that's hella tedious just to read threads, never mind making a decent sized post).

TOTALLY V/LA 14TH-21ST YOU GUYS

[iamausername]

Post #9: The first of many Antihero posts that strikes me as scummy. I don't have a tangible reason for this one, my gut just says that this post feels wrong.

Post #17: Gut scummy feeling about this one too; saying "I'm going to ignore nocase's post restriction" is a contradictory statement, clearly, and it feels really self-conscious to me, like he's trying to pre-emptively deflect any "why didn't you say anything about nocase?" questions. If you're going to ignore it, then just ignore it. This just comes off like he's waiting to see how the town at large feels about nocase before he takes a side himself, which is hella scummy.

Post #37: fuckin love this post. i want to marry it.

Post #38: I would not expect SpyreX to be this dense, but I can't see what he stands to gain from it as scum, so it's just weird.

Post #49 & Post #57: Combination scummy. "It's fun to watch scum fail", to me, heavily implies that some kind of slip has occurred. Certainly something more concrete than "craptacular post disguised as content".

Post #69: Last sentence here makes Seraphim look town, though.

Post #72: I remember reaching the conclusion that Chevre is obvtown at some point yesterday, but this post looks kind of scummy, actually. Specifically the "Certain philosophies would have you lynched under that statement.". It's like she wants to call for a LAL policy lynch, but she just doesn't have the guts to go through with it.

Post #99: dutch one so town it hurts. I probably said this before, but I want to reiterate.

Post #119: DGB suggesting that dutch one is scummy looks bad. I would expect her to be one of the first to realise how obvious town he is.

Post #128: Read the first line of this post, seriously wondering where the hell I got the idea that Chevre was town from. The rest of the post does nothing to remind me.

Post #140: OK, DGB was just a little slow on the uptake, not scum. That's fine.

Post #164: i still can't read it

Post #170: I'm not convinced that CKD read it either. If Chevre turns out to be scum, I'm pretty sure CKD should take a bullet just for this post.

Post #175: Serpahim's reaction looks a heck of a lot more natural.

Post #176: Antihero's reaction says nothing at all. "Made my day", what does that actually mean?

Post #177: Good points about this post - points out that Antihero is Scum of Scum Hall.
Bad points about this post - FoS not vote, warns Antihero to "think carefully before you answer". Maybe some bussing going on here.

Post #183: Making a note to remember this. I have a feeling Antihero will contradict it later, but I don't remember for sure.

Post #193: That's twice now that Runner has made a point of saying "I am not sure what to think of DGB. I will call her neutral

for now

." Looks really contrived, and the 'for now' is either an admission that his reads are artificially constructed, or implies that he is psychic. Or at least thinks he is.

Post #198: "I see the case on farside, Gorrad, and Antihero, Seraphim." The 'and' stuck in the middle there is intriguing. Logic would suggest that it means Seraphim's name was added as an afterthought. I don't know if that means anything significant though.

Post #207: hey guys sup i'm just going to casually shift gears from 'i'm voting dutch one so he'll stop ignoring me' to 'dutch one is scum' and hope no one notices

Post #225: Seriously, seriously wondering where the hell my town read on Chevre came from. What the hell, man.

Post #257: Antihero asking inane questions of Seraphim that signify nothing. Continues to look like a distancing argument between the two of them.

Post #260: I noticed that DGB gave farside town status for "bothering to meta only to change her own mind", which I agree is a pretty strong town tell, and I think Korlash deserves the same credit here.

Post #348: Feelin' this, actually. I don't know where my head was yesterday, like none of my town reads actually look very good on reread.

Post #353: ...except for dutch one, that is. DON'T START THIS AGAIN DGB

Post #385: Agreeing with the last part of this post. DGB and Cyberbob are both high on my town list, and Chevre is not, but it's like they've let Chevre get away with all kinds of murder and arson and what not, and now they've discovered him dodging taxes and they're like "ah-HAH!"

Post #409: That's a pretty solid list. Antihero's at the wrong end, but otherwise, good calls.

Post #434: Oh, maybe that's why I was so against the Chevre wagon. Inverse guilt by association.

Post #453: Antihero completely forgets where his vote is. Usually lightly scummy, but in this particular instance, it's supersized. So Antihero's been drumbeating for a Chevre lynch for ages, then all of a sudden he reads a werewolf post that makes him think that werewolf knows Chevre is town, so he switches his vote to werewolf. You'd think that such a radical re-evaluation of his top suspect might stick in his mind, no? Unless of course his 'suspicion' of werewolf was completely contrived.

Post #473: "I'm here but my claim will have to wait an hour" - WHOA. How is it that DGB has even considered lynching anyone else since this post?

Post #482: Hey it's a wall post that I was actually able to read. Hey that's an awful lot of of effort to go to just to put a bit of WIFOM out there about your buddies.

Post #494: This is pretty lol because he could be describing his own werewolf vote.

And that's all I've got time for. Dang. Here's where we stand after 20 pages:

DrippingGoofball
Cyberbob
Dutch one
inHimshallibe
nocase

Korlash

Seraphim

Xtoxm

Jerbs

yabbaguy
SpyreX

Runner

Weatherman
Kmd4390

Katsuki

PokerFace

RedCoyote
curiouskarmadog
Chevre

Antihero

See you in a week. Sorry I didn't manage the whole thread before I left.

[iamausername]

Hey there's an open Wifi hotspot just about in range here so it turns out you don't all need to wait a week for my return. Rejoice.

Continuing where I left off...

Post #540: I don't think Korlash's case is as strong as he thinks it is here, but this post reads pretty strongly as town to me. I believe that he believes it.

Post #548: dutch one still town.

Post #562: Korlash now arguing for the sake of arguing, and making some incredibly dumb comments in the process. I think he might have accidentally unearthed something worthwhile though, the Xalxe/CKD stuff seems like there is a definite inconsistency going on from SpyreX.

Post #589: Now that the Chevre wagon has come to a sudden halt, Antihero returns to his contrived suspicion on werewolf, the most easy target money can buy.

Post #595: I'm glad I wasn't the only one taken aback by kmd randomly declaring the scumteam as the most experienced players here (give or take a farside, I guess). I'm really having trouble seeing how that statement could be born out of a town mindset.

Post #624: Antihero, Chevre, CKD and now RedCoyote all jumping on the werewolf wagon in quick succession. Boy, I can't imagine how I resisted that one.

Post #626: Dutch one I can understand, but nocase really should have known better.

Post #632: This makes so much sense that I'm still surprised it turned out to be wrong. It was probably the main reason I gave in and joined up with the Gorrad wagon, actually.

Post #677: Oh wait, yeah, Korlash voted SpyreX in #540, then in #562 he said "I don't think you're scummy, just being stupid", but continued voting for SpyreX, and here he reaffirms that SpyreX vote. What the hey?

Post #711: Strong opening statement from yabbaguy. I never saw what DGB saw in Jerbs, but from the looks of his replacement, she was right.

Post #716: There's something about "Correction:

You

are scum" that I find hilarious. I know it's straight up OMGUS, but he phrases it like he's reverting a Wikipedia edit.

Post #729: Hello guilty conscience speaking. Antihero takes a statement that says "The werewolf wagon is really, really lame. I bet it's heavy with scum." and takes it to be all about him, even though there were 7 other players in the wagon at the time, and DGB did not give any indication at any point that this comment was directed at Antihero.

Post #753: Interesting stuff going on with CKD around this point. He decides that werewolf is so scummy that it would be literally impossible for anyone to believe that werewolf was town without insider knowledge, and votes Xalxe on that basis... but then he misreads Xalxe's join date by a year and mistakenly believes him to be a raw noob, and therefore lets him off the hook for noobishness. While werewolf, the actual noob, still needs to die for his sins. It really doesn't make a lot of sense, but the way he lets Xalxe off is the first time CKD has appeared to show any concern about figuring out another players alignment in this game, and now I'm thinking it's possible that he's just really misguided town.

Post #813: Something really oily about this post. I am trying to put my finger on it but it just keeps slipping away.

Post #817: I didn't think I could be more interested in discovering the true identity of an alt than I was in knowing who roflcopter is, but then Weatherman comes along and calls me "one of the few greatest players of all times on mafiascum". Damn my narcissism.

also this post is town.

Post #897: Oh, but this righteous indignation feels totally genuine. Dammit people, town or scum, just pick one and stop flitting between the two.

Post #941: For real.

Post #958: Fucking finally. If I don't get an Antihero lynch on D2 after this, THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

Post #981: Hey DGB, you missed me in your list of players who suspected Xalxe D1. Also if you think scum were deliberately aiming for a cross kill when they shot him you are living in a fantasy world. I have never seen scum try to take out other scum on N1, and I severely doubt that you have either.

Post #985: This vote is unxpected and throws me off.

Post #991: Oh dear, SpyreX is scum, isn't he?

Post #1030: Weatherman bringing the fury. Fuck yeah.

Post #1038: Interested to know a) how CKD ends up any higher than Neutral, and b) how nocase and inhim end up in different sections when they've been largely indistinguishable in this game.

Post #1045: Chevre claims that her CKD vote was born out of confusion after her top suspect werewolf flipped town, and cites her massive L-1 "I'm gonna die here are my thoughts" post as evidence of previous suspicion of CKD. But that post pretty clearly lists her top four suspects, in order, as werewolf, Jerbs, dutch one, THEN CKD. So what changed to keep Chevre from voting Jerbs/Yabbaguy or Dutch one? Especially considering she reiterates her suspicion of dutch one now that a wagon has formed there, it seems to me that she was just voting CKD because other people had voiced suspicion of him.

Post #1072: This would make sense if people had been calling dutch one scummy prior to the werewolf flip, and changed their minds a result of it, but I for one have found dutch one to be noobtown through and through since well before I even had an opinion on werewolf.

Post #1075: RedCoyote, are you seriously suggesting that you are being "a pragmatist and a realist" by giving up on an Antihero lynch as a possibility after making NO FUCKING EFFORT WHATSOEVER to make one happen? Because I will cut you.

UPDATED SPECTRUM LOOKS LIKE THIS:

DrippingGoofball

Runner

Weatherman
Dutch one

Jerbs

yabbaguy
Cyberbob
inHimshallibe
nocase

Korlash

Seraphim

Xtoxm

Katsuki

PokerFace

Kmd4390
curiouskarmadog

SpyreX
RedCoyote
Chevre

Antihero

[iamausername]

I implore you to prove me wrong about the strength of an Antihero wagon, because I would be interested in seeing it gain steam and hopefully joining it.

There are already three people voting for Antihero (Myself, Weatherman, DGB). In addition to these, you have the following:

RedCoyote - claims it is his #1 choice, votes elsewhere.
Cyberbob - claims it is his #1 choice, votes elsewhere

So that's five people who either are or ought to be voting Antihero, which just happens to be the same number of people as the number who would currently be voting dutch one if you put your vote in its rightful place.

In addition, just by isoing players and looking for the last time they mentioned Antihero, I can find several other players who are clearly, at the very least, not opposed to the idea of an Antihero wagon.

This is not a case of you being a pragmatist and a realist, and compromising on a second choice vote because no one is willing to go with your first choice. This is a case of you saying one thing and doing another.

QED.

[iamausername]

- iamausername is V/LA 14-21 (still?)

Hopefully not, but it's kind of tempramental. I wouldn't be surprised if it suddenly dropped out entirely, it did for several hours last night.

Alright, username. You did your homework.

Yes. The question is, why didn't you?

[iamausername]

DGB, am I scum bussing Chevre?

You're scum, so you're either bus'ing Chevre, or you're going after townies. You tell me which.

Remember Post #170? It's the first one.

[iamausername]

Post #183: Making a note to remember this. I have a feeling Antihero will contradict it later.

Players not voting:

Antihero

Hey look, I'm psychic!

[iamausername]

the majority of people (DGB)

Also gonna quote this for 'the lulz', as they say.

[iamausername]

Hey, it's /inv 4 and Antihero is me and Xtoxm is roflcopter!

Unvote

VOTE: Xtoxm

Although clearly, claims need elaboration before we actually go to a lynch. But I wasn't the guilty party in that situation.

[iamausername]

Link please?

You've been tunneling on me this entire game, and now you're changing your tune because of a vague non-claim?

Explain yourself.

Here.

In brief, roflcopter dropped heavy hints about having an innocent result on Yosarian2, I was a jailkeeper and had targeted rofl on the night in question, but due to the possible roles in the setup, it was still theoretically possible that he could have some kind of result on Yos, though I was pretty sure he was lying scum (and he was). So I gave a vague non-claim in order to force a full-claim out of him and blah blah clusterfuckcakes.

Anyway, your behaviour here makes little to no sense as a scum ploy. It makes perfect sense as a town player who has some maybe sort of incriminating evidence that proves Xtoxm is lying. I know this because it looks a lot like my behaviour in the aforementioned game.

What needs to happen here is a full claim from Xtoxm, followed by a full claim from Antihero.

[iamausername]

Hey look I'm in prod range. This is a pointless prod-dodging post because I'm still waiting for Xtoxm to fully claim so we can sort out this Xtoxm/Antihero mess and move on with our lives already.

[iamausername]

Xtoxm, I'm not sure if this is alignment related or not but you suck. I'm sorry but you really do. You don't abandon posting and set up a ghost game in a large for 5 days out of a simple claim situation while being on site.

Also frustrated at PF's non-response so far.

I'm not sure why people think they're waiting for me, I have claimed. It is Antihero's turn.

• I choose one person each night
• I die if they are dangerous
• I chose Yabbaguy last night
• I live to to tell the tale
• Yabbaguy is not dangerous

I have no real objection to be being lynched, but I think it would be kinda dumb seeing as how i'm confirmable and all.

• You have claimed the 'Weak' modifier.
  
• You have not claimed the ability that it is modifying.
  
• That is what we are waiting for.
  
• It is not fucking difficult to answer this simple question.

[iamausername]

Unvote

Thank you.

Ball's in your court, Antihero. What makes you think he's lying?

[iamausername]

No, Antihero's behaviour still doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. His claim was not well thought out, but as a scum roleblocker, he'd know that Xtoxm wasn't lying and figure out how he could still think yabba was innocent despite being blocked. As a town roleblocker, he'd have much more reason to believe that Xtoxm could be lying and newsboy jump in with the counter claim without thinking through all the possibilities.

They're both town. Let's lynch Chevre instead.

VOTE: Chevre

[iamausername]

Fuckin' lol.

newsboy = brashly

Thanks, iPod autocorrect.

[iamausername]

Hey, Korlash. Your vote. Where is it?

[iamausername]

OK, it just seemed like maybe you'd forgotten, with the way you've been taking all these potshots at Antihero for his claim, while I don't think you've even mentioned Spy for about ten pages.

[iamausername]

Transparency please, everyone, I'd like top 3/5/whatever suspect lists, no funny business or shenanigans. Korlash doesn't like numbers, that's fine, we won't do a 1-5 scale. But we desperately need to have clear indicators of where everyone stands at this point, we're a bunch of apathetic wrecks who are impulsively latching onto anything that sorta kinda makes sense at this point and complacently accepting replies to just the current events as significant enough contribution.

I LIKE PRETTY COLOURS AND LISTING THE ENTIRE PLAYER LIST

DGB
yabbaguy
Weatherman
Antihero
Xtoxm
Dutch one
Cyberbob

nocase
inHimshallibe
Korlash

RedCoyote
CKD
PokerFace
KMD

SpyreX
Chevre

CKD moves down to #1 suspect given a scum flip on Chevre.

I might do some effort posting to explain why everybody should be voting Chevre if I need to, but that wagon seems to building pretty nicely on its own at the moment.

[iamausername]

I might do some effort posting to explain why everybody should be voting Chevre if I need to

I've forgotten more then I know about chev already, in fact the only thing I can remember about her yesterday was that I seemed to be against her lynch. So while I'm willing to relook at whatever case is against her today odds are I'll come to the same conclusion.

Not quite sure why people are still voting Chevre. Has anything changed in the last few pages that I've missed? Doesn't really seem like it to me.

The only votes I can see the reasoning for are inhim (I'd have to look at cyberbob and dutch).

alright alright i get it guys

[iamausername]

Here are a couple of quotes from Chevre regarding nocase post restriction nonsense at the start of the game:

You need to explain your restriction; otherwise, people have plenty of reasoning to suspect you.

That being said, nocase and inHimshallibe, why would you lie about having a post restriction? Certain philosophies would have you lynched under that statement.

"people have plenty of reason to suspect you"
"certain philosophies would have you lynched"

The important point here is that neither of these quotes actually say anything about how Chevre herself feels, merely that people in general would probably find this behaviour suspicious. It's seriously weasely.



Later, Chevre posts 98 paragraphs explaining the rules of mafia which nobody is actually able to read, and implies that inHim is scum for admitting to not reading it. I find it difficult to believe that Chevre would genuinely think that every town player would bother to read that post. I'm pretty sure Chevre was fully aware that someone would respond to that pile of bullshit with a "tl;dr", and the entire reason she posted it was to act snotty and say "I guess you don't care about the town winning" as soon as anyone balked at actually reading it.

Katsuki says "Re: Chevre wall, I see no pro-town reasoning for typing such a giant wall of text at this point of the game". Chevre responds with "Katsuki, give me a few reasons why scum would make the post I did".

Yes, that's totally reasonable, Katsuki can't just say "there's no reason for town to do that" without also explaining why scum would do iOH HEY WAIT A MINUTE

I do know that anything that seems out-of-the-ordinary or not seeming to benefit the town is scummy.

I guess this doesn't apply to Chevre herself.

nocase, I find that very anti-town of you, to say that Xalxe is not scumhunting and then when he asks you a legitimate question of elaboration, you tell him to stop posting. How is that going to help us?

"That's anti-town" is basically another version of "some people would find that suspicious". Why is Chevre always talking about the average man's reads and not her own?

Chevre's second giant text wall is actually readable, and it's understandable that this saved her from the lynch yesterday. On the surface, it looks pretty good; she actually takes a lot of solid stances here. It's too bad that's all completely evaporated over the course of D2.

Chevre begins D2 with a vote on CKD, which she explains thusly:

In my "I'm going to be lynched so here's everything" post, I stated that I thought you were leaning scummy ever-so-slightly. That's pretty much my sole reasoning for the vote. I with werewolf555 nked, I was unsure of where to start.

What she doesn't ever explain is why her vote fell on CKD, her fourth highest scumread in the referenced post, and not on her #2 or #3 suspects, Jerbs and Dutch one (#1 suspect was werewolf, who is of course dead). Especially given her quick hop over to the Dutch wagon, it seems to me that she was just voting with popular opinion there.

Pokerface, I voted for curiouskarmadog to begin today because I didn't have a solid starting point, and I felt he was slightly scummy before. I'm very convinced that Dutch one is scum; the way he alone defended me on Day 1 when it looked as if I was going to be lynched looked so much like scum buddying to town.

Here she explains again and directly contradicts herself. "I didn't have a solid starting point" followed by "I'm very convinced that Dutch one is scum". Why wasn't that a solid starting point? It's not based on anything Dutch one did on D2.

Hmmm, I seem to have missed where we confirmed XtoXm as town.

This is not a town post. This is the response of scum who is irritated that people have figured out that someone is town.

Chevre's latest post. We've gone from those seemingly solid stances at the end of D1 to this jelly-like substance where everybody gets coated in a thin layer of suspicion, and Chevre floats along with popular opinion like a Drifloon in the wind.

I don't understand at all how nocase reached the conclusion that Chevre's D2 posting has been good. It's been horrendous.

[iamausername]

VOTE: SpyreX

I guess I'll go look over CKD's posts and see if anything glaring comes up, but I'm pretty sure this is the way to go.

[iamausername]

OK, all I really get from CKD's iso is that dutch one is obvtown, and I knew that already.

[iamausername]

[Yabba, InHim, nocase, Cyberbob] appear in both lists.
[Kmd, Dutch, Poker, RedCoyote] voted only Chevre.
[Iam, DGB, Spy, Antihero] voted only Gorrad.
That means [Korlash, Weather] voted none.

I think you'll find I was on both, muchacho.

As were RedCoyote and dutch, because you're still using a vote count from a page or two before the end of D1 instead of the final one.

[iamausername]

I think it's time for one of these posts. Going for a different format this time, because variety is the spice of life.

Antihero

Not going to go into all the reasons I found him scummy before his claim, I think that's been covered well enough.

I think we can take it as read that Antihero is a roleblocker who blocked Xtoxm on N1. Whether he's a

town

roleblocker, that's another matter. But I still think it's considerably less likely that a scum roleblocker would jump the gun and claim when Antihero did, because he'd know Xtoxm was town. I imagine the thought process would go something like this:

TOWN ANTIHERO:
-Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-He's scum! Get him!

SCUM ANTIHERO:
--Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-???
-Maybe he's not lying...
-Read role list
-Yes, there are ways he could think yabbaguy was confirmed even though I blocked him.

CKD watch: very little interaction. Gives approval to a "let's kill these people" list including CKD here, but then, the list is eight names long. Not really significant.

Cyberbob

Definitely not lacking in interaction with CKD. Earlier in his iso, it looks a little suspect; he votes for CKD a couple of times, but he never really pushes it much, and it's always clear that there's someone else he'd rather lynch. But he does actually start to get serious about it towards the end of D2, those interactions do not look like bussing to me.

Independantly, he's been a little bit going with the flow; he was there on the Gorrad wagon and both D1 and D2s Chevre wagons without being much of an instigator, especially on Chevre. He was also on the Antihero, but he was really the first one to start pushing that, and frequently kept pushing it in the face of indifference, which looks town to me.

DrippingGoofball

cba explaining why I'm so sure DGB is town. call it gut, if you like.

Dutch one

As I said, reading CKD's iso makes it clear that he is town, even if it wasn't obvious already.

inHimshallibe

Has become increasingly shady as the game progresses. I don't have an issue with the no explanations playstyle, actions speak louder than words and all that. What does bother me is his reaction to the Xtoxm/Antihero claim furore. And his reaction to other people's reactions to same. I have trouble seeing how all of these posts can come from the same worldview:

Unvote

What do you think you have on me, Antihero? Your actions here look pretty townly so there's probably an explanation for all this.

Also, I never claimed cop. Don't go jumping to conclusions, people. I simply said that I know Yabbaguy is not dangerous.

Please tell me this is the guy we're lynching.

PF, how can I pick a side when all I have are vague innuendos? Hell, who's to say they aren't both town?

Haven't you been anti-Antihero for the majority of this game?

Tell me, Inhim. If we lynch Xtoxm and he flips town, would you want to lynch Antihero next? What about Yabba?

Haven't thought that far ahead. His claim sucks, let's lynch him.

No, Antihero's behaviour still doesn't make sense from a scum point of view. His claim was not well thought out, but as a scum roleblocker, he'd know that Xtoxm wasn't lying and figure out how he could still think yabba was innocent despite being blocked. As a town roleblocker, he'd have much more reason to believe that Xtoxm could be lying and newsboy jump in with the counter claim without thinking through all the possibilities.

They're both town. Let's lynch Chevre instead.

VOTE: Chevre

Good posting.

CKD watch: Consistently on his "kill this guy" list, consistently no effort is made by inhim to actually kill this guy. Definitely suspect.

Jerbs/yabbaguy

May or may not be cleared by Xtoxm, depending on how Hider works here, and since Kublai isn't answering, I guess we'll have to say not. I'd been assuming as such anyway, given that the Hider description on the first page doesn't say anything about it preventing any actions on the hider besides kills, but whatever. yabbaguy is probably town anyway.

He's made a lot of sense all the way through, I really like his attempts to break the D1 deadlock here, especially given that we now know that all four players on the chopping block were town. He's really showing a lot of care about getting the best lynch at a time when scum would give no fuck. His nocase attacks are striking out against the borgeousie, misguided though they may have been. He starts up the crappy dutch one wagon, then changes his mind once it gets going. He does an extensive meta read on Antihero and comes out with no real conclusion. None of this is scum behaviour.

Katsuki/PokerFace

I don't remember these two doing

anything

, so I'm interested to see what happens when I read their iso.

Oh right, Katsuki was the guy who replaced out because he couldn't keep up, but did a fine job of keeping up with every comment about his possible reasons for wanting to replace out after he requested replacement. That was funny.

Oh right, PokerFace is the guy who has asked a bunch of inane questions that signify absolutely nothing and never followed up on anyone's answers to those questions. That was funny. No wait, the other thing. Scummy.

Also D2, he's all like "I don't know what the case is on Antihero, I'm sure I'll figure it out just in time to hop on before deadline though if we don't lynch Dutch one by then". Props for not hiding your evil plans there, PokerFace.

He does not look like someone who is trying to figure out who is scum, at all. He looks like someone who is trying to find the easiest lynch.

KMD

I don't care.

Korlash

I understand about 30% of what he's saying, which doesn't help. Noting again that he explicitly states in Post #562 that he doesn't think SpyreX is scum, but continues to vote for him, and apparently changes his mind again later down the line. This post definitely comes across as a "knows SpyreX is town" slip, actually.

Korlash's posting in general is kind of running on a single-issue platform. It's pretty much all SpyreX all the time.

He makes a bizarre comment in Post #1070, suggesting that KMD should look for scum on the werewolf wagon instead of the Gorrad wagon, even though he himself was on the werewolf wagon, and the guy he's been trying to lynch for the entire game was on the Gorrad wagon. My first instinct would be that he's protecting buddies on the Gorrad wagon, but CKD was on werewolf, so unless it's some kind of crazy reverse psychology gambit, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum point of view than a town one. Just baffling.

Also he recently argued against someone suggesting that he is definitely not scum with SpyreX. The only motivation I can see for that is that he is scum and doesn't want SpyreX to become cleared if he dies.

I'll get to the rest tomorrow probably. Right now I think it would be productive to

Unvote

VOTE: PokerFace

[iamausername]

Continuing where I left off...

RedCoyote

I thought I'd somewhat made my peace with him, because although I still find the whole 'Antihero is my top suspect, but I'm just going to blindly assume that there's no support for that lynch without bothering to check' thing problematic, it mostly made sense to me as a Coyote/Antihero scumpair tell, and since I no longer believe that Antihero is scum, that doesn't work.

But then I went through his iso, and something still felt off, and then I went through his iso looking specifically for his opinions about Chevre, and now I believe I have whiplash.

I'm playing in another Mafia game (square enix mafia IV), and in that game, Katsuke recently joined as a replacement. She is quite active there, but at the same time she says she is a bit inactive at this Mafia because she is so incredibly busy. If you were really that busy, then you wouldn't join another game as a replacement.

The last time I used this argument against Kat, I was scum, Dutch. Are you?

This right here is setting all kinds of sirens wailing on my scumdar. But then for every post like that I find, there's another one that gives me completely the opposite feeling. It's kind of annoying. I should maybe catalogue them all and see what everyone else thinks. But not right now.

Also wondering how RedCoyote feels about PokerFace, given that he had Katsuki down as one of his top suspects way back when, and given PokerFace's generally lacking performance thus far.

Runner/Weatherman

If he's scum, he is doing a truly exceptional job of playing me. I can't see any reason to believe this is the case.

I'd forgotten that he has totally already made the exact same case I just made against PokerFace.

SpyreX

The thing with SpyreX is that he's totally scummy, BUT pretty much all the other people I think are at all likely to be scum are on him like flies on honey. So either there's some heavy bussing going down, or I have got something wrong somewhere. Like maybe some super cunning scum has snuck into my town list. Or maybe SpyreX is not scum, he's just having a bad game. But, that being the case, maaan, is he ever.

D1: "Gorrad is scum." Series of posts whining that no one is listening to him.
D2: "Dutch is scum." Series of posts whining that no one is listening to him.
D3: "RedCoyote is scum." What happens next?

It's just so lazy, you know? Once you've found your target for the day, that's it as far as putting any real effort in goes.

Added to that, probably the most suspicious interactions with CKD out of anyone. Specifically:

And, CKD is cart before the horse to a degree. Lynchable on his own? Sure (60/40). A much, much better lynch after a Gorrad scum flip? Hot damn yes (80/20).

It's not just the "guys, let's lynch this townie first, and if he flips scum, THEN we can lynch CKD" thing, though obviously, there's strong scum motivation for that. It's the "lynchable on his own" bit that feels really off to me. I don't think town Spy would say that. I think he'd leave it at "lynch Gorrad, then we'll talk". I do think scum Spy who was worried about being linked to CKD would say it to try to prove that he wasn't.

I understand people being wary about the insta-wagon springing up at the start of the day, but don't make the mistake of assuming that 'being speed-wagoned' = 'town'. Check out this page, for example. VP Baltar is scum, and goes from zero votes to L-1 within a single page, and there's not even any bussing involved. It can happen.

---

Unvote

VOTE: SpyreX

I just persuaded myself back on board again. Plus PokerFace's reaction to my vote makes me feel a little better about him.

[iamausername]

Yea, I thought gorrad was scum. Pretty sure you did too?

That's not the point and you know it.

Ugh. Korlash's latest post really feels like gloating, and I don't like it. I knew I was lying down with dogs when I joined this wagon, but dammit, the fleas are worse than I expected. I don't think I can do this.

Unvote

VOTE: inHim

Making posts like "Spyspy " + not even a vote out. COME ON.

[iamausername]

Also wondering how RedCoyote feels about PokerFace, given that he had Katsuki down as one of his top suspects way back when, and given PokerFace's generally lacking performance thus far.

I know it isn't phrased as a question, but I was kind of hoping to see a response to this, Coyote.

Korlash, if you're looking for the gloating in your post, it's here:

Really? I thought it almost never happened when you push a dude's lynch for 30 pages without being able to back it up or add to it cumulatively... My whole thesis was based around this... Wait, crossing your fingers and blindfoldingly picking people at random among the most useless players is guaranteed to find scum right? I'll start writing it up immediately.

This is basically translating to me as "haw haw, you thought Gorrad was scum".

vote: Cyberbob

This is a scum lynch. 96%.

Level with me, inHim. Not one single other person has expressed any particular interest in lynching Cyberbob, as far as I can recall. You have not made any attempt to persuade anyone that he is scum. What do you actually expect to achieve with this?

This last page is just making me despair for this game. I miss yabbaguy. He always seemed to know how to beat something productive out of these brick walls.

[iamausername]

Really? The only person I remember attacking him yesterday was CKD.

[iamausername]

iamausername: Eh, I could go with RedCoyote, just feel more confident about Cyberbob. Better?

No.

[iamausername]

Not entirely surprised by the revelation of Weatherman's identity. My top pick was SerialClergyman returning to the site but not wanting anyone to know for some reason (mostly because I saw his name in the Users Online list a few weeks ago), but Ojanen was one of the other names floating around in my head.

Now, back to the game. I've been really, really directionless today, and I need to do something about it. SpyreX and RedCoyote have both been hurling out the appeals to emotion, and I'm totally swallowing it hook, line and sinker, and I don't care. My gut says they're both town at this point.

I really want to see inHim dead. Take a look through his iso, and watch the slow deterioration of any pretense at doing things like hunting for scum, or giving any kind of crap about what wagon he is on as he realises that there are enough players in this town who don't look at a lack of explanation or consistency as a scumtell that he can get away with just about anything.

Look at his interactions with CKD. Back in the time when he was actually occasionally bothering to explain his scumreads, CKD gets lumped into the "would kill this guy" lists, but there is NOTHING ELSE*. No post that could possibly have any danger of actually causing a CKD lynch to happen. He's poised to bus if one does happen to spring up, but he's sure not going to do anything to bring that about.

*NOTHING ELSE with the exception of this gem:

OMG, I have been here for years...and that post was the longest I have ever read...firm stances and opinions...and lots of content...town or really ballsy scum...got to be town.

CKD, money where your mouth is time. Point out where the firm stances and opinions are.

Looking better for Gorrad. This seems pretty town in concept, though we’ll see about the rest of Gorrad’s practices as I continue. ==SpyreX’s INCREDIBLY SEXY post on the possible bus of ckd is EXCELLENT.==

"The Gorrad wagon seems to be dying, I guess I should bail. But OMG SpyreX is setting up a link between Gorrad and CKD, better encourage that one!"

He literally posted this towards the end of D2:

People I'll lynch:
RedCoyote
Dutch one
Weatherman
DrippingGoofball
Kmd4390
Cyberbob
yabbaguy
curiouskarmadog
Chevre
PokerFace

and then opened D3 with a vote on SpyreX. There's 'not being overly concerned about consistency', and then there's 'jumping on whatever wagon appears without discrimination'. The above post also came very shortly after a post saying "Weatherman's solid Town". No explanation has been offered for this inconsistency. Besides, I guess, the following post where he says "Hell, I might vote for anyone but myself."

His reaction to the Xtoxm/Antihero claiming fiasco is pretty horrible too, encouraging a lynch on Xtoxm before the two of them had got all their info out.

There's also the fact that nocase called inHim out as scum yesterday and then ate a bullet last night. WIFOM bombs away, but I think it bears consideration.

[iamausername]

i feel much better now.

[iamausername]

Antihero, where the hell is your scumhunting today. Just because you're not being wagoned any more doesn't mean you get to slack off.

Cyberbob, why did you go from

inHimshallibe

Ah yes. Scummy. I've gone into my reasons for this opinion previously but I do want to reiterate just how suspicious his behaviour was yesterday concerning the xtoxm/Antihero drama. I'd say there's a definite possible connection to RC with the latter's numerous badly justified votes for him throughout the course of the game. Leaning towards a RC/inHim pairing at the very least right now.

to

inhim is dumb too bad rc is voting him :\

when people started voting for inHim? Is it because you are scum with him?

DGB, this inHim wagon has sweet delicious candy.

Dutch one, what Ojanen said. You clearly do not have the time for this game right now. There's no shame in admitting that.

KMD, let's just lynch inHim.

Korlash, have you even mentioned inHim once in this entire game?

PokerFace, I'm still waiting for my delivery, don't think I've forgotten. Also, please don't base your vote today on guesswork about what Xtoxm did last night.

SpyreX,

I'm still leaning conjoined alignments on inHim and nocase after the start of D1

what does this even mean

Weatherman,

spyrex, pokerface and non-attention-getters korlash/cyberbob is the list i wanted to look thoroughly. tomorrow. sdhf,hgs-

is inHim any less of a non-attention-getter than korlash or cyberbob? At the time you made this post I mean, obviously I am giving him heaping bowls of attention now.

yabbaguy,

carry on.

[iamausername]

Iam, id be fine with that. Spy has more votes right now though.

My count puts them both on three. Which makes it 4-2 inHim if you switch.

[iamausername]

I wish the deadline were tomorrow.

I'm feelin' this.

Yesterday's ~mystery deadline~ was around three weeks, and this day's been going for more than two, so.

[iamausername]

Lovely.

Meanwhile, we're all being a grand bunch of egotists again. Who are we willing to lynch?

Me:
inHim
Kmd
-rift-
Coyote

inHim, Korlash, KMD. Maybe PokerFace too.

Between those that actually have votes right now, I'd rather lynch Cyberbob than Spy or RC at this point.

[iamausername]

And nocase death, I personally like WIFOM, it doesn't get the credit it deserves sometimes... But I think that's putting a lot on Inhim running the scum team which I think we all agree is at least 3 people...

Wouldn't have to equate to inHim running the team if he wasn't the only one nocase had pegged:

Cyberbob
SpyreX
curiouskarmadog
Chevre
inHimshallibe
Korlash

We know there's at least one non-inHim scum here, for starters.

I don't know why I'm still arguing the case when an inHim lynch is inevitable at this point, but someone actually hammering instead of waiting for the deadline to kill him would be nice.

Also did anyone else notice that Antihero hasn't posted in like 10 days? What's goin' on there?

Mod: Are we getting an Antihero replacement?

[iamausername]

One of DGB/red is scum for sure. It's been a long time since I've been more sure of anything non-role-based in a mafia game.

what

VOTE: KMD

[iamausername]

Um, yeah.

Why does one of redcoyote or dgb have to be scum?

Even assuming there is any sense in that statement, why are you voting for redcoyote alongside dgb and spyrex when you have done nothing but call for both of their lynches for the entire game?

[iamausername]

Iam:

Also, yabbaguy wanted you dead, and he died for it so....

DGB is either:
A) right
B) wrong
C) lying

The only thing that supports EITHER a dgb lynch or non-red lynch is if you think dgb is wrong or lying. I don't think she'd be dumb enough as scum to try to use a NK to frame somebody. I also respect her town game enough that if she is town, I trust the red vote.

I think DGB was wrong. I mean, pretty much everybody agreed that yabbaguy was obvtown, so it's not like there was a lack of motive for scum to kill him. But if you do want to look at who yabbaguy wanted dead, then, well...

Meanwhile, we're all being a grand bunch of egotists again. Who are we willing to lynch?

Me:
inHim

Kmd
-rift-
Coyote

you of all people should probably not be using this as a point against RC.

But besides that, you "respect her town game", OK, but why are you all of sudden even considering DGB's town game when you have been saying since day one that she is obvious scum? It doesn't make any sense to me how you can say you're pretty sure DGB is scum, but we should lynch who she wants to lynch because she's good when she's town. There is some seriously heavy cognitive dissonance going on there that I just can't get my head around.

---

Ok so I followed up on my suspicions and don't see reason not to press it.

Vote: iamausername

He calls Chev obv town day one without any sort of reasoning I could find. he figures that out day two and pushes what amounts to a forced case on her.

What was forced about it?

He makes a couple mentions to CKD during this push, but when CKD flips scum he sweeps it under the rug without any effort at all.

I don't even understand what you're accusing me of here. After CKD was already dead I... didn't try to get him lynched?

He pushes Anti for the first day and a half but when he claims he gets on my case for "pot shots"? I don't get it, Anti was your bread and butter up until the claim, yet you try and divert my attention away from him instead of allowing me to prob his claim a little. Bullshit man...

I have explained repeatedly why Antihero would obviously not have claimed when he did if he was scum.

Also, the point of my 'pot shots' post was not that you should stop pressing Antihero, it was that if you actually thought he was scum, you should probably commit to that with a vote instead of leaving it lounging on someone you didn't seem to actually care about one way or the other at the time. Evidently I was wrong about how strongly you felt on your SpyreX vote.

Do you still think Antihero is at all likely to be lying scum? Why?

[iamausername]

Just realized that DGB/Cyber/Spy make up the RedCoyote wagon. I won't be getting back on it.

OH COME ON

she wouldnt take kmds lynch imho tho or korlahs

lol nice try.

I think RC is probably right and we should massclaim today. I should probably respond more to Korlash, but eh.

Unvote

VOTE: Cyberbob

[iamausername]

lol nice try.

nice try at what are you high

Well you just dropped a heavy implication that DGB, KMD and Korlash are all scum together, while you are voting for none of them.

MUD
SLINGING

[iamausername]

Yes, and?

[iamausername]

There isn't a man, woman, or cyborg child in this game that wouldn't make a statement like "DGB wouldn't lynch Korlash"... how the hell is saying that anything close to an implication? I don't get why she wouldn't want to lynch KMD, so there might be something there. but trying to say he's 'implying' some sort of scum trio without backing it up is just you making something bigger then it is. Talk about mud slinging...

He's not just saying "DGB won't lynch Korlash or KMD". He's saying "DGB will lynch anyone but Korlash or KMD".

He is trying to undermine DGB's credibility, but he's not willing to actually come out and accuse her of being scum, just make underhanded digs at her.

[iamausername]

in vino veritas

[iamausername]

Cyberbob.

[iamausername]

Digs? Do you mean to say it has happened more then once?

Hmm, this is a question I should answer. To my recollection, the answer is yes, but I guess I should actually research this.

[iamausername]

Busy busy weekend, post tomorrow, yadda yadda yadda.

Looks like nothing much has happened while I've been gone anyway.

[iamausername]

@Cyberbob

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2958485
Uhm do you actually want us to put you out of your misery? Who do you think is scum?

RC/inHim/??

So is no one even going to comment on the fact that Cyberbob is paying so little attention to this game that his second suspect is apparently the guy we lynched yesterday?

[iamausername]

That's actually kinda a town tell. Most scumgroups I've been in talk at night about who looks lynchable, who will need to be killed, who's a fellow traveller... makes it harder to make that kind of mistake, imho.

I dunno, with the level of apathy in this game before the recent replacement fest, I wouldn't be suprised if the scum convo amounted to "let's kill yabbaguy" "ok". Scum that lurk in the game thread tend to lurk in the scum QT as well, from my experience.

Cyberbob's mistake shows that he is obviously not updating his suspicions based on the new information we get at the start/end of each day, which I think suggests that he's not getting any new information - ie, he already knew inhim was town. I think if he was town, then the flip would come as something of a surprise, and would therefore be more likely to actually stick in his memory.

Why would you rolefish if you didn't have significant reason to?

UGHHHHH.

Calling for a massclaim is not "rolefishing".

And while we're on that subject, everyone else completely ignored the suggestion when RC brought it up, but I still think it's a pretty good idea. What does everyone else think?

I have a sort of town read on Cyberbob and I didn't like the names on the RedCoyote wagon when it caught steam.

Wasn't Cyberbob one of those names?

I'm inclined to vote whoever has the lowest post count of the first day that's still breathing.

Pretty sure it's KMD, so that sounds like a good idea to me.

[iamausername]

I'm not building a case on that, I'm just saying that lynching KMD seems like a good idea. Ends justify the means and all that.

If you want to take it up with Fate though, I guess go ahead.

[iamausername]

Oh look, it took me all of five minutes to find a previous game where Starbuck replaced in as town and asked much the same thing.

Now to see if I can find a game where she did this that Fate and/or KMD were in as well.

[iamausername]

Now to see if I can find a game where she did this that Fate and/or KMD were in as well.

Bingo!

Unvote

VOTE: KMD

[iamausername]

Iam, in that game she asked WHERE to start reading. Here, she asked WHAT SHE SHOULD KNOW BEFORE (annoying not having a caps lock button) she reads.

Oh, wow. Talk about trying to slide through on a technicality. You know what? This comment deserves an

unvote

;

vote: Kmd4390

Yep yep. And all he really had to say was "that game was over a year ago, of course I don't remember everything that happened in it."

[iamausername]

I HAVE DONE WHAT I SET OUT TO DO

BREAK THE PSYCHOLOGY LOCK THAT HAS BEEN HOLDING THIS GAME FOR FUCKIN DAYS.

ANTIHERO IS NOT "TROLOLOL CONFIRMED TOWN" FOR HIS FUCKIN CLAIM, JUST ROLE CONFIRMED NOT ALIGNMENT. PROCEED WITH LYNCHING. SCUMLURKERS GO NEXT.

Sorry, my lock is still there.

TOWN ANTIHERO:
-Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-He's scum! Get him!

SCUM ANTIHERO:
--Xtoxm just claimed to have an innocent on yabbaguy
-But I blocked him! He's lying!
-Why is he lying?
-???
-Maybe he's not lying...
-Read role list
-Yes, there are ways he could think yabbaguy was confirmed even though I blocked him.

Do you see a fault in this reasoning?

[iamausername]

Final Day 3 Vote Count

inHimshallibe

- 6 - RedCoyote, iamausername,

yabbaguy

,

Kmd4390

, SpyreX/Fate, PokerFace

Final Day 4 Vote Count

Kmd4390

- 5 - iamausername, RedCoyote,

DrippingGoofball

, PokerFace, The Fonz

Yeah, I really doubt we've had town lynches the last couple of days with no scum at all on them. And given a) Cyberbob tunneling on RedCoyote come hell or high water; b) PokerFace constantly trying to draw attention to Cyberbob and CKD's distancing when Cyberbob was being wagoned yesterday, and c) I know my own alignment; Poker seems by far the better candidate.

VOTE: PokerFace

Other fun facts; most of the wagons I've started in this game have ultimately led to lynches, all of which have been town. This didn't happen with Cyberbob yesterday, and he turned out to be scum. It also didn't happen with SpyreX the day before. Definitely going to go back and re-examine how that one fell apart.

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

[iamausername]

Now he comes out with two candidates and picks Poker over Red... Just looking at his evidence given makes Red the better candidate yet he votes poker?

Wait what? Cyberbob attacked RedCoyote constantly, and (unlike when he attacked CKD), this has carried a pretty strong risk of getting RedCoyote lynched at certain points in the game.

PokerFace fought against the Cyberbob wagon yesterday, constantly drawing attention to the distancing between Cyberbob and CKD in an effort to 'prove' that Cyberbob was not scum with CKD.

Which part of this is better evidence against Red than against Poker?

Now, we're massclaiming today, right?

If so, we need to agree beforehand that the vig claims vanilla.

Point. Most power roles, I think that sharing whatever information they have is more important than keeping hidden at this point, but with the vig, we already have the information they provide. So, yeah, this.

Fonz has the added benefit of not only being an outed power role (One quite frankly I see no reason scum should fear in the slightest)

Read this game and then tell me scum have nothing to fear from a town roleblocker.

I don't really have a point here, because I'm pretty sure you're right about the vig being their priority, hence The Fonz's continued survival. Mostly I just want more people to read that game, because it's amazing.

username, what do you have to say about this? I mean, Korlash is raising some good points here. Not to excuse myself of responsibility, but you were the primary reason the wagon got shifted to Kmd over Cyberbob yesterday. That's a pretty clearcut case of potential scum motivated maneuvering.

I don't really have anything to say about it. I unvoted Cyberbob and voted KMD. That's a fact. At the time, I thought it was the right decision, and I was wrong. If you want me to give a more thorough account for why I thought it was the right decision, I guess I could do that, but I prefer not to get hung up defending myself when I could be devoting that effort to finding scum instead.

---

I know that Red and I stand out for being on every single lynching wagon in this game, but let's please not forget PokerFace has also been on every lynching wagon except the first day, when he abstained from voting entirely because he wasn't fully caught up after replacing in. It's easy to forget this fact, because he never made a significant contribution to pushing any of these wagons, he's always been a late voter riding on everyone else's case.

And let's also not ignore the significance of the wagons that didn't reach a lynch. On Day One, before Gorrad and werewolf took the limelight, there was a wagon on Chevre that grew to six votes, starting with Seraphim here, then farside here, then four more from DGB, nocase, inhim and Jerbs starting here.

Katsuki (now PokerFace) joins here. Xalxe joins here. Then Cyberbob joins here.

Here is the pertinent point:

If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

D2, PokerFace sits his vote on Dutch one for most of the day before switching at the last minute to finish off Chevre.

D3, he sits his vote on SpyreX for most of the day, before switching at the last minute to finish off inhim. Another notable thing about this day is that for a pretty long time, SpyreX and RedCoyote were tied as the lead wagons, and RedCoyote refused to vote SpyreX for this entire period. This day strongly suggests that RedCoyote is not scum with anyone but Fate.

D4, PokerFace sits his vote on no one at all for most of the day, before eventually switching to finish off KMD. What do you think he'll do today?

I'll just say this again:

If you believe PokerFace is town, then you believe that on Day One a townie received votes from eight different players, and was constantly the lead wagon of the day, for a full ten pages (covering four days of real time) before a single member of the scum team became interested in joining it.

[iamausername]

Dammit Korlash.

You're acting like I omitted important details for some nefarious purpose, but actually, those details are completely irrelevant to the point. Yes, the Chevre wagon jumped from two votes to six in a matter of hours, and most of the players weren't online in this time to join it. That explains the known fact that the first five votes on this town wagon were town. It does not explain why no scum joined the wagon in the subsequent FOUR DAYS that it continued to linger as the largest wagon in the game.

Unless, of course, there WAS already one scum on the wagon, and they didn't want to be seen all piling on at once, because scum teams tend to have an aversion to all doing the same thing at once. This is also why the idea that because known scum CKD spoke out against the wagon, we should assume that every other scum was also against the wagon is frankly laughable. This also explains why Cyberbob did deign to join the wagon, but only after Xalxe created a buffer zone between his vote and Katsuki's.

We need to massclaim pretty much before we do anything else.

Cool, lets get Iam started. I'll hook up the electrodes and one of you guys turn on the buzz saw...

Yeah, fine. I am a two-shot cop. I used my first on DGB on N1, and got an innocent result, obviously. I used my second on Korlash on N3, and got another innocent. Oddly enough, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

PokerFace can go next.

[iamausername]

I did list him as one of my top three lynch choices here too, but mostly you appear to be right. Well, whatever.

[iamausername]

yes you're right.

i didn't quote the exact wording that is in the PMs i received, clearly this means i am scum.

jesus fucking christ.

[iamausername]

Gah.

Unvote

PokerFace just totally sabotaged his own scumteam's chances of finding the vig for no reason whatsoever.

Either that or he's not actually scum.

I need to think about this.

[iamausername]

Hang on. Wait a second.

Iam, if you were only two-shot, why did you not claim IMMEDIATELY that you got your second result?

I guess you wouldn't take "I don't really have a good reason" as an acceptable answer.

Well, I could say that I was hoping to hang on for one more day, because the devastating effect that clearing two innocents has on a scumteam becomes considerably more pronounced the later it happens, due to the decreasing size of the pool of potential mislynches. That's certainly a reason that someone might not claim immediately after exhausting all their shots. It's a risky tactic, but a potentially lucrative one.

But I did want to claim yesterday, I just wanted to do it as part of an organised massclaim, because I was hoping that someone else would have any kind of information at all that could add to mine and create an equally devastating effect on the scumteam. And when that didn't happen, I decided to take the gamble (though I nearly ended up claiming anyway to save DGB from the lynch). I don't know that it was the right decision, but it was a decision.

I have an opinion about this, but I want to wait and see what username says.

What an odd thing to say.

See the same argument that would suggest Iam is town to me also suggests fonz is scum. Without a scum RBer the mafia wouldn't have a way to deal with Xtoxm on their own, aside from the kill. actually that might cover it...

There's no reason we couldn't have a roleblocker on both sides, though.

The fuck are you high on Poker.

Hider: At night, choose a player to hide with. You will only die if they die.

So basically youre Bulletproof OR double killed.

No dying behind scum or ANY OF THAT nonesense

No fate. Xtoxm was Weak Hider and could clear and condemn others thanks to the weak part.

Role Name:

Hider

Active Abilities:

• Hider: At night, choose a player to hide with. You will only die if they die.
  
  • Weak: You die when you target any player with a "dangerous" win condition.

Passive Abilities:

• None

Groups:

• None

Victory Condition:

• You win when all players with a "Dangerous" win condition have been removed from the game.

---

If I assume Korlash, Fonz and Poker are all town, I'm left with Red/Fate, Red/Star or Fate/Star as the only potential teams, and Red/Star makes zero sense given the events of today. Which would mean that Fate is scum. Probably with RedCoyote, in fact. Fate/Star doesn't make a lot more sense than Red/Star.

But there's still that D1 Chevre wagon weighing on my mind. I still struggle to believe that scum would ignore it for so long. And also the fact that the events of today kind of suggest that RedCoyote isn't scum with anyone but PokerFace, because why else would he be so zealous about derailing the Poker wagon?

Hey, PokerFace. Any chance I could get a list of your scum games? I want to check something. I'm going to track them down either way, but if you could speed the process up a little, that would be a big help.

[iamausername]

Fuck. Uh... Fuck. I have made bad choices.

I don't even care what his explanation is. Unless its LOLODDNIGHT TWO SHOT COP, he dies. Even in that case he dies too.

What if it's LOL ODDNIGHT COP.

As in the 'two shot' part was bullshit. Because I wanted scum to think I was no longer a threat to them so that I could sneak in another investigation tonight without being killed.

Which is also why I said this when I claimed:

Oddly enough

, me discovering that Korlash is not scum seemed to coincide directly with him suddenly deciding that I am the scummiest scum ever to have scummed. I was kind of surprised that no one questioned the fact that Korlash suddenly disappeared from my scumlist when he started attacking me, but yeah.

I didn't just feel like rambling about Korlash for no reason.

And then when RedCoyote said this:

I don't know what scumlist you're referring to, because I just went a looked back (finding it

odd

that you brought up you ever had a scumread of Korlash)

and then this:

I have an opinion about this, but I want to wait and see what username says.

I said this:

What an

odd

thing to say.

because I thought he was indicating that he'd picked up on my hints.

Just wondering.

---

Yeah, I fucked up. I must profusely apologise if my attempts to be sneaky end up getting me lynched and ultimately losing us the game. I probably should have just claimed truthfully in the first place, but at the time, it simply didn't occur to me that a two-shot cop would probably want to play things slightly differently to an odd night cop up to this point, and therefore that my claim would be at all questionable. I did not expect this to happen.

I DEFINITELY should have told the truth as soon as Fonz started asking me questions that I couldn't answer without making up some bullshit.

I'm sorry.

---

FOR FATE (NOT FOR YOU):

Now, you fucking lunatic.

I'm not spouting any "RED+FATE SCUMBUDDIES 4LYFE" nonsense. I said that was the only reasonable conclusion that could be drawn IF I ASSUME THAT KORLASH, FONZ AND POKERFACE ARE ALL TOWN. That was me thinking through the implications of PokerFace being town, because he'd just done something that made me doubt my scum read. I didn't even vote for either of you, never mind attempt to push a lynch. I am looking at possibilities. Try to take an objective view of things and I'm sure you'll agree that Red/Fate is a shit ton more likely than Red/Star at the very least. Unless you think RedCoyote would derail each and every readily available mislynch today in favour of bussing his buddy, who was completely getting away with doing nothing whatsoever.

Must you go "RRAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHGGGHHHGHGHHG YOU SCUM YOU SCUM YOU SCUM DIE DIE" every time someone even mentions the possibility that you could be scum? It does get tiresome.

I am reading through PokerFace's scum games, because I want to see if he has ever done anything like this self-sabotage before as scum. If I find any evidence that he has, my vote is going right back on him in a flash. If I don't, there's still a good chance that my vote goes back on him. I have a strong town read on RedCoyote right now and I have trouble believing it is wrong.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to vote for Starbuck, because she doesn't have a plausible partner unless I put PokerFace back on the table, in which case he is the better lynch by far. Red, who do you think is Starbuck's partner?

Instead he exploited his towniness to make a bullshit claim that would let him survive a little bit longer.

Fate, think this one through. Why would I need to make this clusterfuck of a claim to 'survive a little bit longer' if I have all this 'towniness' to 'exploit'? Pretty sure I'd have just claimed vanilla and not drawn all this attention to myself, like I have done in every other fuckin' scum game I've ever played.

Seriously, you can check my wiki for my game history, and I'm pretty sure you'll find that I have never claimed anything but vanilla in any of my scum games. I realise that self-meta defence is inherently unreliable, and I don't care. I'm doing it anyway.

---

FOR YOU:

I commend my soul to any god that can find it. Again, sorry. This was a terrible idea and I will never do anything like it again.

[iamausername]

THEY'D KNOW RIGHTAWAY, "MAYBE HE'S AN ODDCOP, WHY ELSE CLAIM?"

what.

before it was obviously bullshit, because why wouldn't you claim when you'd run out of shots now you're saying that scum wouldn't be fooled BECAUSE I claimed after 'running out of shots'? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. WHAT.

THE VIGS A THOUSAND TIMES MORE USEFUL TO TOWN THAT YOU. SPECIALLY IF THERE'S A HYPO GF ALIVE.

Is there any reason to assume the existence of a godfather, besides the fact that it gives you another reason to attack me?

Now I just said that I cannot see a Starbuck-Fonz partnership. I'm getting rid of that.

Starbuck-PF
Starbuck-Fate
Fate-PF
Fate-Fonz
Fonz-PF

Help me reconcile this list. From where I'm standing, PF looks like the person that needs to go today. I need to spend a little time going back and figuring out which of these connections work based on vote counts and stances.

Fate+Starbuck team is starting to look a lot like the right answer to me at this point, actually. I was writing it off because of his attacking her yesterday, but looking back, he really didn't put in a lot of effort to lynch her then, and the fact that he never voted her today before the massclaim seems decidedly out of character.

[iamausername]

No one is disputing the fact that I've lied, Fate.

Why are you of all people advocating a lynch all liars policy?

[iamausername]

I swear if I went through your posts D3 I'd find some Korlash suspicion (which is why you couldnt claim full cop or N2 investigate), etc.

"you were suspicious of Korlash before you investigated him, this proves that you are scum"

VOTE: Fate

He's really making some insane stretches here.

[iamausername]

You were fake suspicious of him, so therefore you COULDNT claim him as an innocent on N2, when you were deciding your FAKECLAIM.

So what you're saying is that you think I was fake suspicious of Korlash on D3, then suddenly stopped being fake suspicious of Korlash on D4 for... no reason whatsoever, THEN decided on D5 to claim that I had found him innocent on N3?

[iamausername]

You were fake suspicious of him, so therefore you COULDNT claim him as an innocent on N2, when you were deciding your FAKECLAIM.

So what you're saying is that you think I was fake suspicious of Korlash on D3, then suddenly stopped being fake suspicious of Korlash on D4 for... no reason whatsoever, THEN decided on D5 to claim that I had found him innocent on N3?

hey

hey fate

you don't get to ignore this just because starbuck is still screaming "lynch me lynch me i'm the mislynch please lynch me me meeeee"

[iamausername]

I am going to be V/LA until Tuesday

Sorry bout that.

[iamausername]

Anything happen while I was gone? Mmm... nope.

Imma get back to reading those PokerFace scum games then.

[iamausername]

Sorry, Red but my innocent is on you. My gut said you were town, but Fate's flip looked super bad for you, so.

Not that I expect it makes a lot of difference, because given that I'm still alive, I have to assume we're dealing with a godfather here. Certainly I don't think it's at all likely that Fonz is a scum roleblocker who can both block and kill in the same night, and chose to use neither on me.

Also explain all your other kill choices, NOW. Because I don't believe they add up with your play

Does it matter? We know there is a vig, and I don't see anyone else claiming it.

I'm feeling a Starbuck/Fate cross-bus for town cred plan, I think.

[iamausername]

Actually, nah, screw that, this is easier.

Vote: Starbuck

RC shoots

me

. I will block poker. Then lynch Poker in the morning.

Works for me.

VOTE: Starbuck

[iamausername]

Actually, the really big mistake was RC claiming vig BEFORE we'd got Iam to claim his innocent.

This is true. I knew he was the vig, but I was planning to claim I'd been blocked; it somehow didn't occur to me that you would probably be blocking him.

I suspected Iam and was told that I was stupid for doing so by RC. Guess I wasn't so stupid huh?

You suspected literally everybody, including the confirmed vig, so.

[iamausername]

Nor did I get the format of the results wrong.

I maintain that this is not remotely a scumtell, and I'm almost certain I would have said 'innocent' rather than 'not dangerous' even if I had been a real cop.

The rest though, yeah.

[iamausername]

Oh no, I was always intending to switch my claim to odd-night. Just not until the following day.

[iamausername]

Hey is there a scum QT?

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/qudJvckVZp9

Is there a dead QT?