Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[kanyeknowsbest]

my vote was half pressure half sheeping furcolow and half shitty gut ive been vibing off you all game that i was too busy tunneling elmo to pursue. his quick hop onto the wagon after me made me flinch a bit, but your reactions are more than enough to get me to stay on. you basically sound like youre frustrated at getting strung up for the "wrong reason" right now

[Nuwen]

From what I understand, people are policy lynching Hiraki?

[shos]

@Nuwen - Hiraki is under no pressure and is not even close to a lynch, what are you talking about?

will soon get active back again, so I will reread the last few pages and comment now.

[Hiraki]

@Nuwen - Hiraki is under no pressure and is not even close to a lynch, what are you talking about?

will soon get active back again, so I will reread the last few pages and comment now.

For some reason I thought I was Zar, but thanks for letting me check.

I'll be done by 6ish EST today, I believe. Maybe a bit longer, but probably not.

[shos]

unvote;
vote: zar

unvote vote zar

Vote Zar

Kayne not tunneling on me. I'll take it

And I'm saying Zar over Uber because yes

So once again, why are these votes there?
Furcolow hasn't provided ANY insights on his vote;
Kanye same;
Parama and Elmo - the hell?

So correct me if I'm wrong, since the others haven't provided reasons to vote Zar other than pressure, this post should hold the reasons for Zar to be scum.

Pirate Chiermosticada / Zar - Chiaro has some good insight on Zar in his replacing out post #498 (link is just above here), where he says "I don't like his cases on either me or UberNinja, seems to be tunneling hard and looking for evidence to justify his conclusions rather than the other way around. Scummy." <-- that right there isn't something one scum says about another. The end. Not scum together. This almost cements my town read on Chiaro and my scum read on Zar.
Zar calls Chiaro scummy and votes for him in 271. In post 326, Zar defends his voting of Chiaro, even though nobody has questioned it. In post 409, after I call him out on it, Zar says the he "decided to explain why I felt my vote was still good" randomly. Looool, scummy as fuck. Then in 685, he says "I still think the Chiaro slot (replacement included) fits the profile of low activity scum." but then NEVER MENTIONS HIM AGAIN. I am now 99% sure Zar is scum again.


Yosarian2 / Zar - Zar doesn't mention Yos until post 419, after I ask him what he thinks of Yos. "Townish due to his contributions" is the reply. Well, then. Yos also gets a town read from Zar in 862. Fantastic. After that, that's it. No more from Zar regarding Yos. It appears his modus operandi in this case is to call his scumbuddy "townish" after 400 posts, then "town" after another 400. Don't expect him to mention his scumbuddy Yos again for another... 200 posts or so. It's not time yet.
Yos on the other hand is even more ludicrous/awful: His first mention of Zar is SIX hundred posts into the game, in post 596, where he's listed as "town" with no explanation. In post

932

he says "Zar? Really?", chiding Vi for mentioning unvoting him (Yos) to vote Zar. Yos talks about people

suspecting

Zar in post 982, but doesn't say anything about Zar himself. And that's it.

tl;dr, Yos and Zar are scum together.

Vi is likely scum too. I mentioned reasons earlier. Somewhat less suspicious because of dissonance between Vi and obv-YosZarian-scum, but still very suspicious to me.

Yos is very likely scum, and very possibly scum with Zar. Post 378 feels like someone who's scum with Vi and Zar might say. One is town, one is not mentioned and falls into the "other people I don't have a read on at this point" area. That'd be perfect.

Zar is scum. No two ways about it. I'll eat my finest feathered bonnet if he's town.

Unvote; Vote: Zar

This can also be a vote for Yos. I prefer Zar at this point though.

So..let's start. post 498's insights about Zar are quoted above - and that cancels in UN's opinion the pair pirate/Zar. But look at the end of it -

This almost cements my town read on Chiaro and my scum read on Zar.

Why does that make you think Zar is scum? I mean, you just canceled the option of both scums; but why can't they be both town? or pirate scum/zar town? you said that this CEMENTED your thoughts, so it must be reallly big.

if it has indeed cemented the facts that obviously can't make through a couple like that, why did you keep working on that pair? it doesn't look like you've been investing too much time where it isn't needed - "I think bla is town so no".
post 271 - I don't see anything good/bad there.
post 326 - "scummy as fuck"? why? has anyone questioned MY vote on you that I keep pushing.? to the contrary - I believe people here tend to call others scummy if they do vote and do NOT keep pushing? in fact I believe it was YOU who did that this game? in fact in the next sentence you call him out for not saying anything about it again. but uh, didn't you say that it is scummy to say something about it if nobody questioned you? and that makes you 99% sure... :\

look, I am probably passively defending Zar over here, but my main goal is targeting YOU uberninja. I'm showing here that the cases you build are full of escargos. you have accused Zar in trying to make everyone look scummy, but really, there is nothing to it.

I'll continue.
you talk fluff about 419 with no opinion about it. Then...you complain about how they don't interact almost at all? The only good part in this area is that you made me get to this:

It's even more telling that UN is using Vi's suspicion of Zar to justify his own, even while he's voting for Vi. At least, I assume Vi is the person he's talking about when he vaguely says:

Because you are inventing reasons to suspect me. Just saiyan.

No, I'm really not.

You know how I know? Because I'm not the only one that noticed it.

But that makes no sense; if UN actually thinks Vi is scum, then why would he trust Vi's read on Zar? And I think even UN knows that he is on really shaky ground here, and that's why he's being so vague.

It really feels like UN is just opportunistically supporting any wagon he can that might save his own skin, even when they logically contradict each other; Vi gets a few votes, UN drops his town read on Vi and votes for her; Vi attacks Zar, and suddenly UN opportunistically adds Zar to his suspect list while keeping a vote on Vi.

You're so full of omelettes that I want to cook you up and eat you.

which is completely unrelated, but Yos's post is a very good catch which I probably failed to see earlier, and your response is wonderful, as usual.

then your colored version of the post is really wired IMO. at least the Vi's part. about the Yos's post 378 part -

Yos, please post your reads on everyone in the game.

Quiford/Elmo is probably scum, you are probably scum. Parama is pretty iffy too. Nuwen, Vi, and Charter look town-ish, although it's too early to be too confident on any of them. Kanye looks pretty townish. That's the only reads I have so far, everyone else is pretty meh right now.

THIS is what you chose to mentioned along with the 'very likely scum'? and are you seriously SO SURE that you nailed all three scums day 1?

*sigh*
everybody jump on the UN votewagon..choo choo or something...I'm gettin sleepy.

[UberNinja]

I find your lack of faith disturbing, shos.

[Vi]

ITT I am dead to shos?

[UberNinja]

Also don't forget that other big ol' post I made about Zar.

Zar's scum because of a fountain of cumulative gut + scummy undertones, not just a neat little list of bullet points.
Not that one couldn't be made to satisfy people, but if you're not voting him already, it won't convince you to, so there's no point.

You either switch to Zar or you don't, and when he flips scum, you get to shut up until never, mmk shos?

[shos]

what's ITT? people keep using it ><
I'm not sure what you meant Vi, but uh, if it wasn't clear, I do not agree with the thought of you being scum, the contrary~ But that post was not about you, it was more about Zar and UN.

@1082 - gut doesn't work with me. if it felt bad to me I'd say it, but it doesn't. either way, you have a much, much larger amount of titbits where my gut says you're scum. you have posted so much in this thread, and I'm sure that anyone who will ever ISO you will think that too.

I do not switch to Zar; but even if he does flip scum, I will not shut up the reason is that I'm not pushing towards a Zar-town stance, I'm just discreditting YOU when you say he's scum.

[Zar]

I T T = In this thread.

anyway.

Uh. Vi looks the best in my wagon, if you ask me.

[Zar]

BTW, Kanye did provide a reason.

@Kanye: currently, how does Elmo fall among your suspects?

[Hiraki]

Guess I should do this now, then.

Chiarosicada Pïrate Chemist Hiraki

K.

Just saying right now. I don't like either of these players.

Parama is town.
Vote Kanye

Prob scum, no joke. This is scum RVS play.

But seriously--
Unvote: Yosarian2
Vote: kanyeknowsbest (L-5)

Explain this, Vi. I don't think you're scum for it, just Charter.

I just wanna know why. For my own pleasure.

Seriously guys. 27 confirms charterscum.

unvote;
vote: shos

flailing

vote: shos

that was easy.

This is beautiful.

Am I going to see more of this shit later on? This is stupid.

In any case, that does confirm Diddin and Furcolow to be prob town, unfortunately.

And Parama is serious about this. That's not good.

At all.

I don't see a problem here; do you?~

Guys really?

Really?

What the fuck is going on here.

Shos was obviously joking.

Just look at his fucking join date. Easiest way to do it.

If you're all joking, you can go fuck yourselves now.

It's funny that you think these are RVS votes.

Very funny.

What the fuck is going on here.

This is borderline stupid trolling.

I like this.

Vote: Parama

Prob scum as well.

Appeal to Emotion level: Expert.

Definitely scum. You could've just said "I'm scum" there, because that'd basically be another way to say it.

note: Uber is not fine with a shos lynch at that moment, but apparently Parama is the exception

right

stalling

that's the word you're looking for

So, a self vote, a "I hope this town is going to lose" post, followed by unvote and going back to the wagon. Riiiiggght.

This is town Parama though. Sure on that.

so yos is scum guys
just sayin'

He had realistic points on your play.

God what the hell happened to you. This is the epitome of horribleness in the last few games we've played together. You used to be fun. This is annoying.

So you wouldn't be opposed to a Parama lynch, but don't want it NOW

If there is nothing said about this, Nuwen is prob. scum. Uber did the SAME exact thing, and I haven't even seen a note about it so far.

short days are even worse. a handful of people have barely posted, the less you hear from people the less you can hold them accountable for wht they've said.

Why are you guys acting like we're going to get a lynch in like two seconds. We're not. That's the whole reason that this situation doesn't arise in most games.

Usually only when the person is L-1 or L-2.

I don't think anyone but shos is, and that was fair. Parama? No.

Nuwen isn't making much sense in 138. Bit just stupid really.

Unvote; Vote: Yosarian2

Yo Parama. Prove yourself.

KEY AND POINT FELLAS.

I think Vi is scum. She has done nothing but push easy lynches on Shos and Parama, who, despite her claims, is not obvscum.

Unvote, Vote Vi

die die die

This sounds really opportunistic to me. Die.

Oh no! He can go for two wagons because both are scummy!

Opportunity is a dying scumtell. It wasn't even a valuable one in the first place anyway.

this post is terrible
unvote;
vote: shos

He's right you know.

shos's reaction to my pressure is one I would expect from scum.

This is diddin town, trust me.

And Shos is the guy FoSing anyone "bandwagoning." I'll turbolynch that crap off the site too.

Every game is a step closer to a brighter, better MS meta.

Right...

I need more diddin.

tell me then

at exactly which post did RVS end?

Parama stop this stupid shit.

Or you could, you know, actually act in a pro-town way and respond to people's legitimate concerns about your play in a rational way, instead of going through every single type of emotionally manipulative BS you can think of to get people to not lynch you. "You'll feel bad when you lynch me and I flip town" isn't going to work, and neither is the "Oh, poor me, Yos is bullying me, just look at our join dates".

Pro-tip: the "You're bullying the newbie" defense may have worked for you in the past, but it gets really old when your join is 5 months ago.

If I called you scum, you're null now. I'm pretty sure I haven't said much, so I'm going to say you're town.

charter, am I acting how I acted in Mini 1318?

HOLY SHIT.

IS THIS A FUCKING META DEFENSE?

WHY ISN'T HE DEAD?

Parama is right on Chairo. Can't say much in his defense.

Quilford isn't scum.

shos - Reversing my read on him to townie. Call me crazy but I think he's town now.

Interesting! Reasoning was grand!

Ugh. Getting very sleepy at 4:30ish. Not a good sign. Hoping to see some damning of Zar near.

Alright, I'll bite. If Quilford flips scum, lynch me next.

But who's scum if Quilford flips town?

What if the sky is red?

See these questions aren't relevant to anyone.

This isn't a funny joke. He better claim something that can be confirmed by mod

Because I'm fucking murdering him.

Imagine that, Chiaro's suspects are those that are voting them?

So then what does that make him?

I initially wanted to make a smart remark but this is actually not a bad question.

no it is

don't be like that

I'm leaning towards both Uber and Yos being town. Uber for a myriad of terrible reasons, the latest is how he's trying to paint Yos's lack of careful reading as scummy when there's no way Yos can purposefully being pushing this to gain an advantage as scum. And leaning Yos town for the same reason and the "case" on him is quite terrible.

Good buddying

not good enough

I'm down for it
VOTE: Nuwen
I'm still happier with Kayne

die die die

I take back everything I said with Quilford

I was wrong.

Here are my thoughts on Kanye.

Brevity is the soul of wit

You're saying "the enemy of my enemy is my enemy"

You're acting like this isn't possible.

Horrible scumplay.

But forcing players who MIGHT be scum to join the alliance if they wish to appear pro town (even if only for the moment) would effectively force them to vote the way the other five or so townies want to vote, instead of trying to subversively dissent and be disruptive to good pro-town wagons so that they never come to fruition. Do you see my side of it too?

This is a horrible idea. No townie would join such a force that would limit their ability to vote other players, just because someone has different ideas on them.

You're messing up on how an alliance works.

Ok. On Page 30.

Pizza is here.

Will finish later.

[shos]

well yes he has, I haven't put my mind to it; but it's more or less as satisfying as Uberninja's to me, so I will ignore it as well. discreditting Kanye will come after Uber flips scum. the two highest scum reads on my page 19 analysis stay *_* me so consistent *is an angel*

coming to think of it, I have quite tunneled UN since that time. well at least I have a good reason to

and of course Vi looks the best there. his vote was obviously a pressure vote and not a hammer-willing vote. it's like this one:

Oh, like this?

Unvote: kanyeknowsbest
Vote: shos

(L-2)

oh man was I naive

next best on the wagon would probably be Furc, but that's just because the others are worse. in fact, maybe Elmo; I've come to think new stuff on furcolow lately, so he went down in the towndar, and I don't remember my thoughts on elmo gonna have to make even more rereads -_-

holy crap ninja by Hiraki, I'll see in a sec

[Parama]

so you confirm I'm right on chiaro

also you're chiaro

...


also yes I suck sorry hiraki :<

[UberNinja]

what's ITT? people keep using it ><
I'm not sure what you meant Vi, but uh, if it wasn't clear, I do not agree with the thought of you being scum, the contrary~ But that post was not about you, it was more about Zar and UN.

@1082 - gut doesn't work with me. if it felt bad to me I'd say it, but it doesn't. either way, you have a much, much larger amount of titbits where my gut says you're scum. you have posted so much in this thread, and I'm sure that anyone who will ever ISO you will think that too.

I do not switch to Zar; but even if he does flip scum, I will not shut up the reason is that I'm not pushing towards a Zar-town stance, I'm just discreditting YOU when you say he's scum.

Stop mincin' words boy.

Do you think he's town or don'tcha?

[UberNinja]

And Hiraki just so you know... I really doubt I'm going to be lynched today

Just sayin.

[Hiraki]

oh no you fucking didn't

do even need to read the rest of the thread for this shit

Vote: UberNinja

compadres

join me

[shos]

@UN: I do not have a good, solid, read on him. stop avoiding me.

[UberNinja]

What do you want me to say, shos?

Hiraki, sigh.

[shos]

You're not responding to ANY thing that I am aiming at you.

[UberNinja]

1. Nervous scum joke when I asked him if he was scum in post 241. There are at least two other tells in this post too, but they're most likely too subtle for you to comprehend given what I've seen so far.

2. He never sees fit to mention me, either as a town read, or as a scum read, until after I begin calling him scum. Then all of a sudden I'm bright and in the forefront of his radar. And now he's voting me and playing survivalistically. Talk about OMGUS caughtscum. The sad part is that fools like you and shos exist that will eat up his drivel and ask for more.

3. I'll repost my list from earlier:

He asks questions instead of asserting opinions.
He rarely even follows up on those questions.
He rarely takes a concrete stance on anything.
He stays out of the spotlight on purpose.
He posts just enough to avoid lurkerhunter notice.
He doesn't rock the boat; so as not to make waves.
He randomly defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily.

4. He and Yos were FUCKING METHODICALLY IGNORING EACH OTHER until I called them out on it.

5. He's grabbing everything I say that's damning to him in the least, and then straw-manning it. Read his freakin iso.

If that's not enough...

[UberNinja]

Plus, he seems all too happy for any support he can get on my wagon, not even noticing that he has had the Chiaro slot solidly in the scum section for weeks/months, but now has no qualms with Hiraki voting for me. As long as there are enough people voting for someone else so that HE is not lynched, he really could give zero fucks about who's lynched. Read his fucking posts for pete's sake.

[Zar]

1. Nervous scum joke when I asked him if he was scum in post 241. There are at least two other tells in this post too, but they're most likely too subtle for you to comprehend given what I've seen so far.

Way to misrepresent. Once again. Obviously you are desperately clinging to anything you can come up with.

2. He never sees fit to mention me, either as a town read, or as a scum read, until after I begin calling him scum. Then all of a sudden I'm bright and in the forefront of his radar. And now he's voting me and playing survivalistically. Talk about OMGUS caughtscum. The sad part is that fools like you and shos exist that will eat up his drivel and ask for more.

Who was the first person to spot your scummy placeholder on shos and to dismiss your attempt to use manipulative META?.

3. I'll repost my list from earlier:

He asks questions instead of asserting opinions.

Asking questions is how you get reactions. Opinions come from the answers.

He rarely even follows up on those questions.

No need to beat dead horses if nothing seems suspicious.

He rarely takes a concrete stance on anything.

Totally not true. You just don't happen to like my stances.

He stays out of the spotlight on purpose.

How is starting a wagon on chiaro, calling for scrutiny on an unusual suspect, and keeping my vote on you staying out of the spotlight? How would that not invite to scrutiny?

He posts just enough to avoid lurkerhunter notice.

I post when it's necessary, I'm not going to spam the game thread with filler for your satisfaction.

He doesn't rock the boat; so as not to make waves.

>_<

He randomly defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily.

How is me responding to diddin random and unnecessary? I had a reason, I gave it.

4. He and Yos were FUCKING METHODICALLY IGNORING EACH OTHER until I called them out on it.

The reason you're using to make this "accusation" is your Yosscum read. It's not good because Yosarian's alignment is unconfirmed (unless you have inside information?). And here's the problem with this:

Assuming Yostown/Uberscum, as per my read:

1) You mislynch me, I flip town. You go on to D2 to tunnel on Yosarian.
2) You give up your attempts to mislynch me and manage to lynch Yosarian, if he flips town, you already have another wagon to tunnel on.

Assuming Yosarian is scum and partnered to Uberscum:

1) You realize both biggest wagons are scum, and thus decide to call a late third wagon.
2) You manage to save your buddy by not voting him on day one, while you figure out another way to save him on D2. In the meantime, you "assert" your intention by leaving him as second suspect, in case you need to bus him.

5. He's grabbing everything I say that's damning to him in the least, and then straw-manning it. Read his freakin iso.

Well, you do have a chunk of posts with scummy intent. I can't help but notice. :shrugs:

[Zar]

Plus, he seems all too happy for any support he can get on my wagon, not even noticing that he has had the Chiaro slot solidly in the scum section for weeks/months, but now has no qualms with Hiraki voting for me. As long as there are enough people voting for someone else so that HE is not lynched, he really could give zero fucks about who's lynched. Read his fucking posts for pete's sake.

Also, not true.

My tiers post show the players I won't be voting for.

[shos]

kay, thanks, finally some response.

about 1.
that joke may indeed be a nervous scum joke, but I usually don't like using such 'tells' to condemn. it's more of a gut feeling to me, like noting a man's tone and stuff, which definitely may be a legit tell but in this post it isn't enough for me. What other two tells are there in that post? I can't spot any, and I do want you to mention stuff like that, don't disregard me~

about 2.
ignoring a person does not make you scum; you really may just not have anything to say. I don't remember saying much about elmo in like, well, since he replaced in, for example. You did not become the head of his radar once you called him scum; yes, he did react quite a bit in post 409, but the vote on you came in post 576, with what I see to be good reasoning. that is not OMGUS; and I am not the fool following. I was the one who GAVE the case about you; and playing survivvalistically is not something I see as scummy at this point. Think about it this way - you have three days to lynch, and the options are a lynch on you, which you know is town(hypothetically, right? I still believe you're scum hehe), or someone else, who may or may not be town/scum. obviously voting the counterwagon is the good option, I think. you can call me stupid or newb for saying this, but hey, if I'm about to be lynched and there's another wagon like that, I'd def vote it.

3.
I'll divide this to the first 6 and the last one. the first six - are all compiled together to one accusation of 'he is actively lurking'. It's scummy, but after 1100 posts in the thread, I don't take it as a reason to lynch him at day 1. worst case that's a good compromise lynch, but even so, there's kanye~

about the random defense on chiaro - I have already addressed this. Town should not need to be prompted to give their thoughts. the contrary - SCUM would be the ones who hide info from town until they are asked about them or something.

4.
methodically ignoring? u english speak dat?...
I highly doubt a yos/zar scumteam, and that is the only case in which it makes any difference.

5.
I don't understand, lol. rephrase/examples? my english ain't that good too meh~

@1096:
I don't see any reason not to be happy for such stuff. Why would I care if scum are bussing? as long as we lynch scum, I'm fine. Then, we can analyse the wagon or whatever, one scum at a time.


ninja'd by Zar. will comment soon.