Open 402 -- Hard Boiled (Game Over!)

[Thomith]

VOTE: rasp
you are obviously scum as you think you are superior by being on the top of the list.

1) Do you prefer playing as town, scum or third party?

scum, prefer being the informed minority

2) How many games have you played so far on this site?

i'm not counting, about maybe 20 though

3) How do you feel about lurking, active lurking, and lying? Assume you don’t know the reason for any of these.

lurking i don't find scummy, active lurking on the other hand i do find scummy, and lying is just ugh if i don't know the reason

4) What role do you like to or want to play as the most?

i like any kind of investigative role town or scum

5) Coke or Pepsi?

coke...

6) DC Comics or Marvel?

Marvel...

any reasons for the last two questions? if you want everyone to answer first i understand as long as you answer eventually.

[Thomith]

hm, was thinking you were reaction testing but i guess i was wrong then.

[Thomith]

i don't see how llama not answer questions = instant policy, is it really that much of a scumtell if the questions really aren't game related and have no reason to be there?

[Thomith]

if you didn't mind if people didn't answer them and had no real reason for them what was the point in them?

[Thomith]

but if you didn't mind if people didn't answer them and then something gets going (like it has) then they can just ignore the thing that is going and fly under the radar to begin with, which will likely happen if people just ignore the questions.
Venmar if we started discussing pizza as a random example would that be good, as that is discussion, point is if you start discussion make sure you at least have a reason/know what you are doing/ start a reasonable discussion.

[Thomith]

you seem against random voting, but you did it anyway, why?

[Thomith]

Not necessarily against it, but rather not really supportive of it.

but you did it anyway, why?

[Thomith]

i prefer both together, as i feel it gets discussion going quickest, so i guess i sort of agree with you, however i find the way you worded it weird, as if you were against RVS but i think i may be overreacting a little to that bit.

[Thomith]

i kept my random vote on because i forgot i had it up, also kass always plays this way, and usually if they are town or scum at least one scum bussess/jumps on them, for this reason
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Llama
for jumping on kass for the exact reason outside of RVS that makes it an easy wagon to jump on.
if you think into it a little then i guess BK could be scum from the RVS vote but really i prefer llama at this point, as RVS is RVS.

[Thomith]

also venmar seems town from the answers to my questions, and general reaction to pressure.

[Thomith]

kass does this in all games, and at least one scum usually jumps on them for it, in this case i think it is you.

[Thomith]

i kept my random vote on because i forgot i had it up, also kass always plays this way, and usually if they are town or scum at least one scum bussess/jumps on them, for this reason

never said they were, but i find it better to go for the possible busser/easy wagon jumper than kass himself.

p-edit: @llama, what question?

[Thomith]

kass does this in all games, and at least one scum usually jumps on them for it, in this case i think it is you.

Ok.

So why is Kass town?

wait a sec, are you in this game?
wait a sec YOUR LLAMA!!!!!

[Thomith]

i answered that question above my lolyourllama post.

[Thomith]

null read on kass, it honestly depends on your/BK's allignment.

[Thomith]

yeah i know that sounds terrible but that is all i can get with kass, if both you and BK are town then i will consider kass a possible scum candidate, however if you are both scum they are likely town, if one is scum one is not then kass could be both.
yeah this is bleh reasoning but it's all i have :/.

p-edit @kass why is that?

[Thomith]

Obviously scum people would try to earn much town credit as possible so they dont get lynched

but why is the tracker/vig thing "gaining town credit"?

[Thomith]

I don't see how i slipped, kass is null because it's kass, they always play this way, and usually gets at least 1 scum bussing if they are scum or 1 scum looking for an easy lynch, i explained this at least twice, so argula and tech it is weird you think i slipped from it.

I don't want a mislynch to happen under any circumstances this early.

so you know kass is town then?

[Thomith]

@venmar but you seem like you know kass will flip town, you are acting like it anyway.
@nacho also i said the bolded because my logic has holes in it but i think it is still quite good logic.

[Thomith]

i don't know what they will flip right now, but leaning more town than scum, however the way you are going about it makes it seem like you know his allignment, and where did i say i wanted to lynch kass when i have been defending him slightly for like 3-4 pages?
my logic has holes only because it doesn't confirm kass' allignment, however it is still good logic that would have worked in jungle republic, where i and i think another scum, maybe kondi tried to lynch kass because they were an easy lynch.

[Thomith]

however the way you are going about it makes it seem like you know his allignment,

[Thomith]

the way you worded it earlier made it seem like you did

FOS:venmar

after we get a VC this will probably turn into a vote.

[Thomith]

did you like ignore all my reasoning or something?

[Thomith]

i am not pushing for venmar because he pushed for kass, maybe you should read and understand more of what i am saying voided.

#128 seems weird to me, as it looks like a weird reason to unvote, because he plays "bad" but meh, also venmar, if i am misinterperating you then i am misunderstanding you, also i guess in a way i am defending kass, however it has reason that has worked before, which is why i am using it again.

[Thomith]

oh and
UNVOTE: VOTE: venmar
as i said i would when i saw a votecount.

[Thomith]

care to explain?

[Thomith]

ok cool i am at L-2... can you all explain your cases on me please?

[Thomith]

i meant nacho, i got them mixed up, and i need to go now but i am pretty sure i have explained all i have already

[Thomith]

Thomith, please explain why I shouldn't vote for you.

because you have shown no reason why you are voting me in the first place, with the information you have given (i.e - none) i can't tell you why you shouldn't vote for me because you haven't given a reason why you should.

@argula, i think it is obvious by that post that i have no other reason.

[Thomith]

i dont remember saying i had other reasons, i said i explained my reason already

[Thomith]

kass can you explain why you are voting me, same to rasp.
also town alliances can be good if you can be sure the people in it are not a threat at the time, but generally you need to be confident they are town, and i have seen llama/rainbowdash do it successfully before.

tech, llama has reasons for not contributing atm, as it would possibly give a jump off point so peoples play will be different, can you explain how that benefits us?

[Thomith]

even though kass admitted they were a troll, they usually still give reasons and play at least a little, do you say we just ignore them all game because they are a troll andrew?

[Thomith]

rasp don't Think because you just changed your vote you don't need to explain your vote on me/ please explain it.
any reason for Voting bk bw?
kass why are you playing differently than normal? not explaining anything? something to hide?
same for you rasp.
ugh, maybe you should have waited until more people added their opininons on claiming BK, as nobody said they were sure about the hider claiming.

[Thomith]

you still usually explain things, and putting me at L-2 is RVS?

[Thomith]

L-2 when we were clearly outside of RVS isn't RVS and is a bad explanation imo, also you are voting, so you do have things to explain.

[Thomith]

just something i missed, rasp it is day 1, but that doesn't mean you can just post nothing and jump around with no content.

FOS:rasp

start doing something.

[Thomith]

rasp being on the wagon does give me a few doubts, but i still feel iffy on the kass thing and still think at least one person that jumped on him is likely scum.

[Thomith]

i think one of venmar/bk/llama is probably scum, as they all jumped on kass which i find an easy wagon, the same thing happened in pick your poison mafia, and guess what, rach who did the same thing was scum, right now i think there is at least 1 scum on my wagon but i don't know who, lowman seems weird for mindlessly jumping on but really i have nothing.

[Thomith]

any other reason other than gut?
ok i am pretty sure there is at least 1 scum on my wagon.

before i get quickhammered i am going to claim now
i am a VT, but if you do lynch me i am pretty sure there is at least 1 scum on my wagon, and possibly another in venmar/BK/llama because of the whole kass thing.

[Thomith]

I think andrew is probably town atm, as he explains his posts alot, however i think the vig over tracker thing seems weird cosidering the cons of a vig has been explained and it is pretty much accepted tracker is best, so him going with the opposite i find weird, and the u-turn because of "what has happened" seems weird how he even suggested the other anyway.

[Thomith]

bk is probably the most towny of the three, but because of the kass thing i think at least 1 is scum, as this logic has/would have worked in about 2 or 3 games i am willing to use it again here.

[Thomith]

>.> my bad then, i actually completely forgot about that, then it is just between llama/venmar then, as without a counterclaim bk is conf town imo.

[Thomith]

I thought you were most towny bk because you didn't push kass like the others did, you just questioned me for using the kass logic again.

also andrew, that logic about the 2009 thing can be used for pretty much all town and scum tells in the book, so i dont see the logic behind this.

[Thomith]

@nacho, andrew is saying that because llama used the same logic since 2009 it is possible scum would take advantage of that, however if we assumed that about everything then we would get nowhere as every scum or towntell has been around for ages too, so the logic isn't good imo.

@jackal when is "later"?

[Thomith]

but in the same way all scumtells and towntells must be void as "some people" know about them.

[Thomith]

most people know about the active lurking scumtell (random example) so because of this using andrews logic all scum would try not to active lurk.
same with some town tell that is known (cant think of one off the top of my head) all scum would use it to look town, making every one void.

[Thomith]

everyone would just claim town if they are at L-1

grats shirlock, now who's scum and why?

[Thomith]

I don't feel that arugula was trying to stop discussion, could you explain this more?

[Thomith]

If you are town bw now is the perfect time to post down final thoughts and reads.

[Thomith]

Techno, i have no clue what the hell you are talking about bw leaving a "subtle hint" how the hell do you deduce someone had a "case in their head" when they didn't post it or really hint to it at all?

[Thomith]

Techno, i don't see how you "highly doubt" venmar is scum as pretty much venmar is now 100% clear, hider would have cced if BK wasn't hider so i am willing to treat venmar as clear, also providing reasons doesn't mean they have a full case, don't see how you got that there.

Town: BK, non cced hider
Venamr, non cced hiders clear

Leaning Town:
Llama, seems to be doing what they think will help the town, and is playing how i remember their town play
Nacho, Although you could argue that their posts are "coasting" i think they are posting content and posting their thoughts of the game.

Weaker Leaning Town:
Kass, hard to read aside from the amount of people jump on them at the begining, 3 people jumped on them which is the same as another game which they were town in and 1 of those 3 people were scum.

Null:
Techno, don't like some of his posts today, yesturday he seemed town as he actively shared his viewpoint, however today some of his reads and explanations seem off.

Null Leaning Scum:
DCLXVI, Gut scum read
Jackal, Gut scum read

and finaly

VOTE: rasp

Ok, i know rasp can provide reasons as i have seen them provide very good and accurate reasons before, however this game they just go "lol i'm just gunna post one liners with no content" this is not how you played before, before you provided reasons this time you provided nothing, when questioned you just ignore the question, last game you answered when questioned, so you can't say this is how you played last time, because it isn't.

[Thomith]

honestly i find their play off and it is just gut, so really i can't explain more than that.
Also in pick your poison when i questioned them they posted a post that made a lot of sense, this game when question they just shrug it off and ignore it.

[Thomith]

i need to make it more clear, first point was about Jackal and DCLXVI and second was about rasp.

[Thomith]

i refered to rasp as they because i was unsure about their gender yes, also here is the specific part of that game i am talking about.

[Thomith]

yes, he flipped VT night 1.

[Thomith]

hm. i didn't realise i changed my reactions towards you if i did, i would like to see a quote as well, as i genuinely don't remember doing it.

[Thomith]

rasp, why did you even suggest that with little votes on you, you were no where near L-1 and dont see why you brought that up.
btw rasp, who is town and who is scum and why?
jackal do you have any reason for the vote on me, if you do can you provide it so i can have a chance to defend instead of giving me none?

also sorry for not posting, i lost track of time because of exams and such and thought i posted when i didnt.

[Thomith]

llama i think andrew was saying the wording of your post was weird compared to the rest:

Ive been thinking more... I really dont think Thomith is town with the death we had.

[Thomith]

Andrew i dont see where venmar rolefished, can you show this?

[Thomith]

rasp, can you actually answer my questions and not keep ignoring them? also you have posted after venmar has been cleared and are still voting them, why?

[Thomith]

jackal, you say you need to reread then come and jump on a wagon, i dont see how this makes sense?

I kind of like llamas idea, although it clears me so that might be why... however i think no lynch is the best option but want to know the exact plan before we go into night.
UNVOTE:
idk if it is 5 or 6 to no lynch so wont vote yet, just so we can get the final plan finalised before night.

[Thomith]

i don't know, BK do you see anything good in you stating your target, if not could you explain?
Either way we need a definate plan, BK wants the tracker on him while he hides so i am happy to go along with that, but want to know for sure and why also.

[Thomith]

ummm, i am posting when i can, getting closer to exams so my activity will be a little less but will still post when i have something to say and have time.

[Thomith]

VOTE: No Lynch
guess thats the plan then.

[Thomith]

i personally think BK should hide today and unless llama can prove to me that it is a good idea for bk to not hide, i think they should continue hiding, because at worst we lose bk and get a conf scum, and best case we get another clear.

p-edit: thats a little confusing, do you think we could have a llama,nacho,jackal team? or are you saying llama and nacho are scum trying to get a mislynch or jackal?

[Thomith]

ok, i am a little unsure, right now jackal and kass are providing little so could be lynches, however because of how i originally felt about kass i am not so sure, and nacho and andrew could be better lynches as they will be easier to link if they are scum because of them contributing, right now i am not sure about DCL and llama.

[Thomith]

Nacho started off as town and i thought they were town until someone pointed out (dont remember who) that their posts really contained little of their own ideas, so now i am not so sure and think they would be a pretty good lynch today.

Andrew i have a scum read on but i really dont know why so really it is gut, i just dont like the way he leaves some arguements on him not completely answered imo, and with the amount of suspicion on both players i think they may be better lynches, as they have been interacting more so will be easier to pair if needed.

[Thomith]

DCL has just jumped on the kass policy lynch which has caught scum before, right now he is unclear so wouldn't it make sense for him to jump on an easy lynch like kass?
Right now because of this i think DCL is scum, the situation is just too convenient and sudden imo for it to be genuine
VOTE: DCL
kass might be scum, but most likely not with DCL unless they are hyper bussing or something like that, which i doubt.
DCL why has kass suddenly become scum?

[Thomith]

Nice lurking, Thomith.

I saw you in the thread bro.

Respond to my points please, or am I to assume you are defending your scumbuddy in your silence, who defended you D1 by not jumping on your wagon?

a- i was reading another thread
b- i didnt see llamas question until after you pointed it out
c- idk about nacho, to begin with their posts seemed like town but have more and more seemed like baseless and empty post but big to make it look like they are contributing.

right now two scum reads are nacho/BK, however kass could be scum if BK is not.
llama is the towniest of the non confirmed because drm's previous player in their slot didnt rub well with me.

did i miss anything?

[Thomith]

it is easy for scum to say "oh i'll give reasons later" and just walk out to think, also kass plays the same as town or scum, and you can read him by seeing if any people jump on him for scummy reasons like you just did.

[Thomith]

oh wow im sorry i got DCL mixed up with BK, my bad.

[Thomith]

looking back they are still the most towny as everyone has at least a few scumpoints, also thinking more about it not everyone that pushes kass is scum, it just depends how they do it, and i am pretty sure llama explained it more than DCL did and used better reasons.

[Thomith]

how have i not been reading the thread? i have read and commented on what i felt i needed to, i do miss things and i am only human so i cant stop that.

[Thomith]

i try to read the thread properly but sometimes i do miss things and even if i read the thread and think i have read everything i do sometimes miss bits out by accident, also i am pretty sure i have explained my fos of nacho so i dont see how it is wishy washy.

[Thomith]

llama (post 1130) - where did you make it obvious you saw andrew was a PR?

Also if i missed any questions from yesturday that i missed point me in their direction, did a quick re-read during night for anything i missed that i needed to touch up on today but found nothing so far, but i could have missed something.

[Thomith]

So guilty on nacho i see, well unless you guys want to try and figure out the last scumbag and keep the day running i will vote nacho.

but first: nacho i dont follow your logic, you let someone who you knew was scum claim your role and only just purk up today?
lolwut?

[Thomith]

hm, i noticed something about the way nacho and llama have been interacting but want to run it by you guys as i still think dms' slot is a lot worse just because of jackal, have you guys noticed that llama and nacho have never really had that much of a clear stance of each other throughout the whole game, the kind of flimsy interactions seem weird to me, could this be a scumteam interactions or am i over reading this and dms really is the last scum?

[Thomith]

yeah andrew has bullshitted before and i know he is bullshitting again, i have not killed as i am a VT like i said day 1, so right now lynch me if you want but lynch DMS after because the jackal side of the slot is terribad, and dms really hasnt done much himself.
VOTE: dms
i know it worked the last two times, but this time it is wrong.

[Thomith]

eh, im sorry guys i did try at the end and did take your advice on board about llama nacho just guess it didn't work :/.
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