Open 417: Chosen Mafia - Heaven and Hell - Game Over!

[Near]

Vote: Psyche

[Near]

Let bygones be bygones.

Confirm Vote: Psyche

[Near]

Idiot who quickhammers is hammered into the floor tomorrow, names and pleas regardless;

Kcdaspot is L-1

unvote

vote Giitah

[Near]

For trying to seem even more town after people commenting on his towniness and knowing kcdaspot is town.

[Near]

Scum team found: Arugula kcdaspot

Vote Arugula

[Near]

Arugula is scum. Either kdaspot or gitah is his partner.

[Near]

Psyche requested replacement already?

Also
UNVOTE: Near
VOTE: Thor

For being on both of the L-2 wagons. Trying to quicklynch confirmed townies?

Seriously? This reason MUST be forced. L-2 only requires 4 votes, first of all. It is NOT that uncommon for random votes to reach 4. Especially Thor's first L-2 vote was obviously random - he brought up "speed lynching" on page 1. Also, how many times do you see a random bandwagon L-2 based on RVS stuff ever translates to lynch?

Second, as it has been already brought up, scums would lynch whoever they can - chosen or not. As an aside, your

incorrect

analysis that scums cannot win unless killing either of the chosen is not necessarily a scum tell. But your forced argument and actually taking that argument seriously IS.

Also, trying to make people think that you are very likely to be chosen ones is like trying to avoid getting lynched. Obviously, all towns should do this but not when your argument is based on something as unreliable as what I quoted above.

[Near]

Thor, I fail to see the point of your questions.

BTW, Technow is town clearly. He didn't know that scums get to find out who the chosen ones are. Incidentally, I didn't know that either. But I guess it's too late for me to use that as my town tell.

[Near]

Finally, I take back what I said about kcdaspot or gitah being Argula's partner. While kcdaspot is still scummy - like Arugula - for trying to make us believe that he's a chosen one, I mixed up kcdasopt with Gitah, who showcased his "genuinely conscious town" for threatening to lynch whoever quick hammers. Which obviously doesn't make sense, because kcdaspot was the one who was close to lynch at the time.

[Near]

Thor665 Arugula scum team

[Near]

Arugula is scum. Either kdaspot or gitah is his partner.

Then vote Kcdaspot.

Thor, I fail to see the point of your questions.

Then be quiet until people answer them before asking me derp questions.

BTW, Technow is town clearly. He didn't know that scums get to find out who the chosen ones are. Incidentally, I didn't know that either. But I guess it's too late for me to use that as my town tell.

Then Near gaks with me and combines a pretty solid town tell with the above derp and scummy defense question.
Meh.

I'm calling it derp town who doesn't realize how dumb that question was to ask, and in minor defense it wasn't a directed question more of an open musing.
Near can be town.

Defending your scum buddy much? Using noncommittal language like "can be town" much? Buddying me much?

[Near]

Then vote Arugula

[Near]

OK. You don't think Arugula's accusing you for being on both L-2 wagon is forced?

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@Arugula The premises were true, obviously. The conclusion is forced.

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The fact that Thor was on L-2 wagon twice is such a fallible and weak argument that I would think almost anything is better. We are still early in the day and I agree there isn't much to go on. But, the point is: random votes, hypothetical questions, pokings to see reactions may all display a conclusion that someone is a scum. BUT the differences are: random vote is not to be taken seriously and pokings and hypothetical questions are there to incite responses. Your framed your conclusion to be based on factual premises - as if they were actually of substance

[Near]

Whoever said silliness of the argument is less important the motivation, I completely agree. This definitely applies. Motivation to lynch is reflected in forced argument.

[Near]

You are just not on the top of my list anymore.

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Last response was directed to Thor.

[Near]

So you don't have anything better to go on.

I do, which is why I am voting you.

kcdaspot and you claiming chosen townies just because you were at L-2 during RVS vote, when really there was no substantial pressure, makes you scum.
your forced argument of thor makes you scummy.
gitah's obvious pro-town pretentious posts makes him scummy

[Near]

They might not be, and I know my logic is flawed, but I don't have anything else better to go on right now.

Although Near is looking worse and worse.

Doesn't matter, because I think you are scum.

[Near]

@Thor
I would think that scum would go after Chosen townies instead of regular ones.

I understand that.

But, even if I'm super scum - I didn't magically create those two wagons so...why did the first two wagons that get big so I could vote for them both happen to be on the two Chosen?
That's the question.

You realize that it only requires grand total of

2 votes

for you to hop on the bandwagon to make it L-2.

[Near]

Arugula:
Cites being L-2 (which translates total of 3 votes) as evidence for both 1) Thor is a scum getting on his bandwagon 2) he himself is a chosen one.
He does admit that his reasoning flawed, but this must be scum's trying to take back what was obviously a forced argument to establish his town-ness.

And in response to:

near is all over the place.

8 posts? and i'm not in the scumteam?

hmmmmmmm

Yes, I change my mind again. Arugula's likely partner = kcdaspot.

If Arugula is not a scum, then Gitah's pretentious protown comment on his threat against anyone who will quick lynch makes him scummy:

Idiot who quickhammers is hammered into the floor tomorrow, names and pleas regardless;

Kcdaspot is L-1

His likely partner = Thor665, who dismisses Gitah from being scum just because of this?:

Giitah had a very stream of consciousness post, unless we presume it was a double blind fakeout what we're seeing is an open expression of suspecting someone and then changing of his mind. Scum would, on average, tend to try to tidy things up as it where. Make the vote on Kcad seem more direct and "honest" feeling. The sloppy method of it while being willing to show the slim thoughts behind it screams honesty to me, and that says obv. town.

[Near]

Prodded. Will read and post thoughts soon.

[Near]

Hi guys. Let's lynch Arugula. He's scum!

[Near]

I am drunk. I promise I will post tomorrow.

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Vote Near

[Near]

JK LOL LOL

Vote Arugula

Confirm Vote Arugula

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Yay someone is here. Let's set a time and get drunk and play mafia.

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This game is so slow...... I will start it up:

dayvig technow

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i have a headache...

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good night

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Arugula and Shattered Viewpoint scum team

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kcdaspot, why do you think thor is scum?

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@Near - still waiting on a link to a town game of yours.

The Arugula case, last I checked, was mostly based off just how terrible his case on me was. This case does resonate with me, and I have no town energy to speak of from him, but the core feels like we might just be lynching him for being a "bad player" wheres Kcdaspot feels like a scummorz. What am I missing here?

My recent town games are ongoing, where I am dead in all of them. Research and you will find them.

So if kcdaspot flips town would you be convinced that Arugula is scum? He last minute changed his vote followed which was followed by sudden miraculous appearance by Shattered Viewpoint to quick lynch. I might have switched my vote, as kcdaspot was my #2 scum suspect, but this lynch coming from a guy who hasn't posted all game! Check the game activity log.

Remember: ARugula and Shattered Viewpoint.

[Near]

Okay, so Kcda is NOT probably town. I can be wrong, you know. It happens!

Vote: Kcdaspot

KILL!

[Near]

Maybe he ain't dead. Maybe mod realized vote miscount?
Someone unvote.

[Near]

Almost 34 hours since this guy should have been lynched

[Near]

Never mind. Counted the votes. He's dead.

[Near]

Vote Arugula

[Near]

Shattered tomorrow.

[Near]

What is your logic to clear Shattered?

[Near]

Because Shattered was the last person to lynch kcdaspot? That is at best WIFOM. Quick lynch before giving chance for kcdaspot to explain himself. Which makes sense because Arugula was about to get lynched if not kcdaspot.

[Near]

Okay, so Kcda is NOT probably town. I can be wrong, you know. It happens!

Vote: Kcdaspot

And this?

[Near]

If kcdaspot flips town, we go after Thor.

He's trying to set up a mislynch on me tomorrow.

And this is obv scummy too. If he actually think you are scum, he wasn't worried that you will NK him?

I did the same thing to Arugula and Shattered, but it would have been too obvious if they killed me. That or I am chosen. I am probably chosen

[Near]

Hahaha, cute scum gambit. Lynch shattered regradless.

[Near]

Also, Near, were you ready for the Day to end when you placed that L-1 vote on Arugula?

I wanted to hammer, so yes.

[Near]

Vote Shattered

[Near]

Unvote

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Vote Shattered

[Near]

Unvote

[Near]

Okay, so Kcda is NOT probably town. I can be wrong, you know. It happens!

Vote: Kcdaspot

Okay, so Kcda is NOT probably town. I can be wrong, you know. It happens!

Vote: Kcdaspot

Shattered is scummy as hell but scum shattered would have killed me...

[Near]

Thor, Hyperion, Shattered, Gitah.

Scum team possibilities:

Thor & Hyperion = YES
Thor & Shattered = NO WAY
Thor & Gitah = PROB NOT
Hyperion & Shattered = YES
Hyperion & Gitah = PROB NOT
Shattered & Gitah = PROB NOT

[Near]

Why would scum shattered have killed you?

Guess.

[Near]

Exactly

[Near]

But there is more: he knew I was going to target him no matter what.

[Near]

End of Day 1. Also, caught up to the present.

This is important:

If Thor665 flips chosen townie at any point, Shattered Viewpoint is town.

Shattered Viewpoint and Thor665 have a history, and I am certain that Shattered Viewpoint would have pushed for a veto of Thor665 if he were scum over any protests Shattered Viewpoint's buddy might have made. Therefore, if no veto on Thor665 was made, that clears Shattered Viewpoint.

Near is town.

Giitah and Thor665 are most likely town based on their play in this game; I still need to read a Thor665 scum game just because I'm not at all familiar with it and want to be sure before writing him off as town, but otherwise I would not consider a Thor665 lynch today. Hyperion is town-ish. I think his observations while he went through everyone's isolated posts were good, but I'd like to see him engaged in the game in real time to get a better feel.

I'm not sure I buy Thor665's logic about Shattered Viewpoint being less likely scum due to his poor hammer on Kcdaspot. With apologies to Shattered Viewpoint, Shattered Viewpoint isn't known to be someone who, uh, actually plays the games he's in. I'm not sure what his recent scum meta has been like, though, so I probably should check up on that a little later. On the other hand, I don't know if Shattered Viewpoint would so blatantly follow Arugula's vote like that if Arugula were his buddy, so... bleh.

Anyway, L-1 votes aren't recommended as long as Shattered Viewpoint hasn't contributed something more substantial than fluff, useless one-line reads, or irresistible hammers.

Pretty sure of Arugula being scum. Beyond the stuff I mentioned in post 321, Arugula stated that he had been on Kcdaspot's side "for a while now" in post 205 despite never defending Kcdaspot beyond the whole "Kcdaspot might be a chosen townie!" debacle, even when Kcdaspot lingered at L-2 for most of the Day -- since post 38, actually -- and was everyone's favorite punching bag for about the same amount of time.

Thor is scum.

Please explain this in detail.

Shattered also would NOT have killed Applejack. While Applejack also thought that Thor and Gitah ARE probably towns, it was not as important for them number wise to keep applejack alive because other players also thought they were town. BUT Shattered had NO SUPPORT FROM ANYONE. For him to target to the last support that he could ever hope for would be UNLIKELY.

I am leaning toward THOR & HYPERION scum team.

AND THOR IS GOING AFTER SHATTERED IMMEDIATELY.

[Near]

You've shown a marked inability to do much with him thus far - so I guess he could be scared theoretically, but no partner would be.

If you clear Giitah and are certain it's not Shattered and I together then why aren't you voting Hyperion? (though please don't, I'm just asking)

Relax. I can vote whenever I want.

[Near]

Vote THOR

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You've shown a marked inability to do much with him thus far - so I guess he could be scared theoretically, but no partner would be.

If you clear Giitah and are certain it's not Shattered and I together then why aren't you voting Hyperion?

(though please don't

, I'm just asking)

THOR & GITAH also a possibility

[Near]

SHattered and Giitah. Shattered fo playing like crap, and Giitah for basically sheeping you.

Hyperion setting up to put Shattered at L-1 following his scum partner THOR.

Easy target guys?

[Near]

BUT Shattered had NO SUPPORT FROM ANYONE.

You...did read ME yesterday right?
Y'know, as *I* was his support that they left alive - derp-de-doo.

EXACTLY, except for Applejack who showed the signs of being able to change his mind on Shattered being town.

THE QUESTION IS: WHY WAS I NOT LYNCHED? EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE THINKS I AM TOWN!

ANSWER: BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT I WOULD GO AFTER SHATTERED. EASY TARGET.

AND YOU ARE VOTING HIM RIGHT NOW.

[Near]

Does my last post make sense? LOL

[Near]

Why was Giitah not killed then, you derp? He was thought of as more townish and by more people. *I'm* the strongest town proponent you've had.

Gitah also thought I was town, I believe. So did Applejack. And Hyperion.

But more importantly: Gitah may not have gone after shattered. It was easily predicted that I would have.

THEREFORE, you didn't kill me. You wanted me to vote Shattered. Then your scum partner would have quick lynched.

[Near]

And it is also possible that gitah and you are scum team. HAHA.

GITAH AND THOR

[Near]

And it is also possible that gitah and you are scum team. HAHA.

GITAH AND THOR

Explain that fuggin' Giitah as scum read. Now.

This

Why was Giitah not killed then, you derp? He was thought of as more townish and by more people. *I'm* the strongest town proponent you've had.

You defending Gitah

[Near]

Gitah also thought I was town, I believe. So did Applejack. And Hyperion.

But more importantly: Gitah may not have gone after shattered. It was easily predicted that I would have.

THEREFORE, you didn't kill me. You wanted me to vote Shattered. Then your scum partner would have quick lynched.

I checked this;

Giitah didn't call you town till...wait for it...TODAY.
Boom. Owned.

Hyperion had you as a "null slight lean town"
Boom. Owned.

Applejack thought you were town because he was smart enough to see the stuff I also saw.

Your case is based off you being a derp who took me pointing out you being town over and over and decided everyone did.
You take me out of the equation than that falls apart as anything - especially as something scum was planning for.

The rest of your case is confirmation bias - you have decided Shattered is town because he's suspected as opposed to being scum who is suspected. They didn't waste a kill on you because you've been unable to push through a lynch, and haven't actually been thought of as very town except by me.

SO... UM... you are saying that hyperion thought i was slight lean town and applejack and you thought I was strong town. So 3 people thought I was town and no one suspected me of being scum... How many people are there total? 5? Subtract me, there are 4? So only Gitah didn't express his opinion that I was town. 3/4 Right?

BOOM. OWNED

[Near]

Wait let me fix my mistake before you blow it out of proportion.

There is shattered, too. Who didn't really post much but was under heavy suspicion from me.

So, 3 out of 5 thought I was town.

And Shattered WOULD have killed me. And definitely would NOT have killled Applejack. So. Yes.

Shattered is NOT scum.

[Near]

Unvote

for now

[Near]

@Near - if that's a reaction test you have it, now unvote and look at what you've got.

If that is a serious vote then you have some serious issues and you do need to respond to them.

1. I've shown that you were not a strong town slot to the rest of town, which drastically weakens your need to be a nightkill.
2. If Shattered is just the poor mislynch du jour how do you explain his actions for the Chosen lynch.
3. A Giitah/Thor scumteam gets incredibly stupid (partly just for your case) but also if you look at the lynch on Day 1.
4. Besides wanting Shattered dead today (because it's crazy I have a scum read on him via PoE and VCA like I showed) what's the actual case on me - if any? Because if that's ALL the case is, unvote and think about it a bit first, because it's terrible.

1. I have shown that I WAS a strong town.
2. Shattered made a mistake. This is WIFOM. I also lynched Chosen.
3. Giitah or Thor. Or Hyperion or Thor. Leaning toward Giitah based on recent posts from BOTH Giitah and Thor.
4. Wanting a quick lynch on Shattered, who I now believe is STRONG town, IS a case against you.

[Near]

Except for the buddying me HARD all game, which I didn't think was suspicious until now, I don't have much case on you. Actually, you lynched two townies. But general FEEL of your posts don't feel scummy.

BUT: the fact that I strongly believe shattered is town, and you quickly attempting to lynch him IS strong scum tell.

[Near]

Huzzah - lacking a speed lynch on either of us will now assure that one of us is the lynch.
Then we'll lynch Shattered.

This

. I am ready

vote

Thor despite Thor pointing out above. Gitah and Hyperion, discuss.

[Near]

Actually this may not be true. Do mafias get QT?

[Near]

HAHAH if mafias get QT, Thor is more confirmed scum. There is no information on day time communication between scums in the description of the game on page 1.

Dazzy

Do mafias get to communicate during day time?

[Near]

Hmm... Without daytalk, it would be difficult for scums to coordinate a day lynch on a player at L-2

Also Thor COULD have faked not knowing there was no day talk.

[Near]

Near, you're reaching.
Any experienced Mafia player (so, that'd be any of us, including Shattered) would have known to make a plan for quicklynching in this scenario. It wouldn't be difficult at all.

I'l give it another 24 hours plus Hyperion posting and then we can discuss Shattered vs. Thor in greater detail. With the odds weighed between the two, I'd personally choose Thor of either of them, simply because 1) based on meta, Thor has shown me he can play like a scary town player while being a Mafia, and 2) faced in a decision between a pro-town or a lurker lynch, I'm pressed to choose the pro-town player.

I don't see how this could be easily done. I guess scums could set a time each day to check to see if there is a vote on any one of the non-scum team? But then if one of them forgets and the other makes the "vote" move, it would look suspicious

[Near]

Actually, you know what VOTE: Giitah

I'l give it another 24 hours plus Hyperion posting and then we can discuss Shattered vs. Thor in greater detail. With the odds weighed between the two, I'd personally choose Thor of either of them, simply because 1) based on meta, Thor has shown me he can play like a scary town player while being a Mafia, and 2) faced in a decision between a pro-town or a lurker lynch, I'm pressed to choose the pro-town player.

^This is crap.
Giitah Shattered team.

A possibility.

[Near]

Assuming that scums could carry out a mislynch, let's look at the following scum team possibilities:

Thor & Gitah = Possible
Thor & Hyperion = Possible
Thor & Shattered = Not possible, they would have mislynched Giitah
Gitah & Hyperion = Not possible, they would have mislynched Thor
Gitah & Shattered = Possible
Hyperion & Shattered = Possible

[Near]

Has shattered been on recently to mislynch me?

and Hyperion, you'll have to explain to me how what you quoted in #429 is scummy, otherwise it's straw. Also, I've already said I'd prefer Thor over Shattered, and the crossvote proves that either one of them is scum at this point, and therefore if I believe Thor to be scum, then I must believe Shattered is Town. To conclude, your logic on that is shit. So, basically, screw you, die scum. Hyperion moves up higher than both Thor and Shattered.

Near, does this sound like a fair conclusion to you? I'll crossvote him and we can see what happens.

So you are saying Hyperion / Thor scum? I don't get your logic. Because Hyperion's logic is "shit"?

[Near]

What's your theory?

[Near]

Fuck this. RL shit, need this game to end.
VOTE: shattered
New job, not enough time to play.

Boo... Good job Thor

[Near]

Thor and Near scum team.

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Vote Shattered

[Near]

GG, was fun!

[Near]

Ya i don't mind if you post the mafia QT