NY Mafia 155 - New Age Mafia II - Game Over!


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:57 pm

Post by Flameaxe »

singersigner wrote:That seems like a pretty silly way to make me do something you probably don't want me doing. Especially considering the fact that
I can (theoretically) just be confirmed by a cop, so...

Prologic is pro. I'm not liking the Singer wagon as much as I did a few days ago. Not really due to any changes in play/events, but more to the idea of it all sitting in my head over the last few days. It almost just feels like overall bad play than notably scummy play. Gonna sleep on this line of thought, wouldn't hate to switch back to Nhammen instead of singer.

That being said, Staeg's 539 leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

@JD: Don't give me a free pass. I don't have much time to post Sun-Tuesday, but I'm not keeping up on the days I have more than enough time to when I should.
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:28 pm

Post by OhGodMyLife »

Hoopla replaces McStab. Rejoice!
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:39 pm

Post by Hoopla »

Hey everyone.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:07 pm

Post by Hoopla »

Some observations:

- Given this is the sequel to OGML's previous Large Normal that also featured 19 players, I think it's likely this setup is again 4:1:14.
- That game featured two Trackers and two Tracker-Millers, which showcases OGML's flair for creativity. Rhinox's claim is highly likely to be true. I don't see mafia ever claiming such a role, as it means it will have had to have created an extra layer of fabrication, as opposed to just claiming NK-Immune - scum typically don't lie superfluously if they can help it. There are many more safer claims for an SK, so I'm ruling that out too. The claim makes much more sense as a town role, given a vig and SK exist to potentially kill it.
- OGML is capable of deviating from town/scum neighbour meta that seems prevalent in most neighbour games, so this isn't an implication for Glork.
- If anything, he is slightly town for his massclaim suggestion even though it is likely suboptimal in a game this large - with more than one scum faction you've effectively ruined any chances of crosskills (nice), not to mention early massclaims' uncanny ability to stall games during the most important time for creating information.
- iamausername's tell on nhammen is neat and I feel like a sucker for believing it, but I kind of do. It might be a coincidence/irrelevent, but it might be a psychological leak - maybe knowing he's a liar, it's subconsciously the most truthful way of claiming? Not sure. But I don't think it's something you can completely write off as null.
- I think Tierce, JDodge and Primate are town too.
- Gutscum reads on AGar and Quilford.


Will do some proper analysis a bit later.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:11 pm

Post by Hoopla »

Singer, you really need to claim. An unfinished massclaim is worse than both a full massclaim or no massclaim, and since one of those isn't an option any more, claim.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:17 pm

Post by Psyche »

9% battery and no charger. I will postwhat I have a 4%.
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:23 pm

Post by Psyche »

I'm sorry guys, you'll have wait a little longer.

I hope you'll forgive me. I'll try to make up for it with a great entrance, when it happens.
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:52 pm

Post by bv310 »

Hello Daisy, what would you like from me? I've stated my beliefs about the current wagons, and given my next preferred lynches, with reasons. Would you like me to expand on those? If so, which ones? Do you just want me to post more?
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:43 pm

Post by Quilford »

Hoopla's slot needs death.
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:46 pm

Post by Quilford »

AGar don't even think about shooting me tonight.
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:42 am

Post by Quagmire »

If the deadline gets near I'm not voting singer.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:33 am

Post by Quagmire »

In post 557, bv310 wrote:Hello Daisy, what would you like from me? I've stated my beliefs about the current wagons, and given my next preferred lynches, with reasons. Would you like me to expand on those? If so, which ones? Do you just want me to post more?

You need to be more proactive in the game instead of reactive, like you have been; instead of "people are talking about singer, I'd better comment on it," think, "who's scummy, and how can I bring light to it?"
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:09 am

Post by redFF »

hello hoopla
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:10 am

Post by redFF »

I'll vote singer if it gets close to deadline

but we should lynch nhammen
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:26 am

Post by Hoopla »

In post 558, Quilford wrote:Hoopla's slot needs death.


Why?
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:07 am

Post by Quilford »

Because your predecessors. McStab's brief time as a player in particular really strikes me as something likely to come from a player replacing scum over a player replacing town.

Also I don't like your post #553.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:09 am

Post by Hoopla »

What don't you like about it?
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:15 am

Post by Quilford »

I was struggling to put it into words but I feel like it's the exact kind of objective analysis you'd pull out as scum and not town, and your two lines of reads stuck on the end feel like a hasty defence from those accusations.

I still don't think I'm putting it right.

I'd like to see your 'proper analysis', or at least give us a time we can expect to see it.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:37 am

Post by Quagmire »

Quilford I'd like to see your 'proper analysis' because so far you haven't had any
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:15 am

Post by Hoopla »

Tierce's play has been weird and obnoxious, but it's pretty clear it's coming from a town mindset trying to portray a certain image of herself, rather than it being an elaborate act as scum. She's a capable scum player, but I think her taking this approach as scum would be unusual, given she alludes to blatantly questionable tactics such as channeling scum meta and overaggressive wagoning - exactly the sort of recklessness that townies produce in the name of "generating information". I think JDodge's posts addressing her have been accurate and fair (although blunt), when he could have easily taken advantage of her position without much blame. There are a handful of other points he's made that have been insightful and constructive in ways that show he's clearly thinking about the game/people's alignments, for example, him calling out Rhinox on my predecessors early wagon. He's also one of the few keeping this game alive in a period of serious quiet.

In a game like this where many people know each other and have a penchant for wagoning, the early wagon on my predecessor was probably not as informative as people like Tierce want to believe. Herd mentality kicks in far swifter when there is familiarity in a group. There are enough people in this game ballsy enough to place L-1 and hammer votes as town and plenty that are savvy enough as scum to understand the wagon for what it is - it wasn't really going to catch anyone out. If anything, the chance of false-positives (whatever they are) seem just as likely - it would have been akin to ending the day with little to no information.

I have a gut town read on redFF. His posts lack caution and seem simple in a way that looks like he isn't trying to fabricate. As town, I think he is very likely to bandwagon umoms even if for no other reason than a laugh - as scum, I think he could do the same, but there are many more scenarios where I don't think he would. Like if he had zero reason or idea of what to claim as a reason, if he already had buddies on the quicklynch, or he may have even just decided to have avoided it in general. There are simply more possibilities of him doing this as town than scum. I think newish, minimal players like redFF tend to comply with this blueprint. Absolutely reckless as town, slightly more sensible as scum.

There is no way iamausername fakeclaims Cop as scum in this game. He essentially is forced to play the "I've been roleblocked every night" game, and even then, I doubt it would work. Slight meta tell, but I don't think he'd flake after committing to a gambit so monumental. It's also obvious he's town by the way he's scumhunted this game too. Bodyguard and 1-shot Vig are probably confirmed town and
maybe
the Gunsmith, although I wouldn't rule out OGML giving scum a 1-shot Gunsmith to effectively act as a weak role-cop. The fact that a Gunsmith almost certainly exists (regardless of its alignment) ought to confirm the likelihood of roles with a gun being true (Vig, Cop, Bodyguard?) and given these are all (typically) protown roles, those three ought to be confirmed. I wouldn't rule out some setup weirdness/trickery, but those three are probably reliable.

This paints the Roleblocker as slightly suspicious, but it would also be weird to claim it outright as scum, given a much more valuable use stems from keeping it hidden and being able to use it on town roles safely. Regardless, this ought to be one of the roles the SK should be targeting if he's to target our pool of PR's (it depends on the SK's immunities to the investigation roles), so this might be a problem that solves itself regardless of Staeg's alignment. Again, really need to see singer's role too.

Quite clearly, we should be lynching from the VT pool today - there ought to be 3-4 scum in there, which is good odds for us to hit and one of the few perks of massclaiming this early. The value of "locking scum into claims" is irrelevant if we can't wipe out the VT pool at a similar rate to scum eliminating the confirmed townies, as an endgame of 2:5 with all claimed VT's and a neighbour isn't particularly valuable. A lot depends on how the SK acts - if the SK feels comfortable in the pool of VT's, he
might
shoot there for us helping us narrow that half of the claims down quicker, but if the SK is not the towniest player in the VT's it will likely shoot our PR's removing chances of crosskills and also whittling down the confirmed/probtown side of the claims quicker.

Of the claimed VT's (me, Quilford, Tierce, nhammen, scooby, redFF, Simenon, Flameaxe, JDodge, Quag?), I'm really only comfortable lynching Quilford, nhammen, scooby, Simenon or Flameaxe.

Quilford and scooby have both bordered on active lurking at times, and both provided weak or reasonless votes and inquiries throughout their play (although I know this is how scooby always is). I'm okay with testing iam's tell on nhammen and Simenon and Flameaxe haven't been noticable enough to think of reasons for them to be town, which isn't really a point against them, but more PoE when I can think of a reason for everyone else to be town. Shameless townhunting in my post, but I've been finding that's a lot easier (especially on D1) these days.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:23 am

Post by Hoopla »

I think it goes without saying that the Bodyguard protects the Cop or the Gunsmith tonight. I think both investigation roles should investigate someone from the VT pool, as since scum will be eliminating PR's, we don't want to waste our (likely) only investigations. It might be sensible to break down the VT pool into two groups for each role, so both roles don't by chance hit the same player in the event both survive. I also think the Roleblocker should target the VT pool to try and block scum.

VOTE: nhammen

Singer isn't the lynch today, but she still needs to claim.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:14 am

Post by Tierce »

First things first: I have no idea who scooby keeps referring to as 'Koffing'. Granted I've been mostly ignoring scooby, but inquiring minds etc.

Second, you have no idea how exhausted I am. If this post devolves into stream of consciousness, I'll attempt to fix it come morning. ('Morning', well. My sleep schedule is bonkers and I slept about 8 hours total in the last 48.) Also JD if you ever see me saying I'm bored in scumchat tell me to
go sleep
. :shifty:

Anything past the top of page 18 is off the top of my head/grabbed from ISOs as I go along. At this stage, this is all I can do--it's 11 pm and I really can't brain, so time to catch up on sleep. Will continue tomorrow, but Staeg needs rope already so please have a wagon waiting for me in the morning.


Hoopla, why is singer's claim more important to you than the fact that Quagmire has refused to claim?


I had a kneejerk reaction to Quilford's comment here:
In post 245, Quilford wrote:
In post 241, Simenon wrote:
In post 235, Quilford wrote:UNVOTE: Rhinox
VOTE: UT
That's stupid.
I suppose. My initial reaction to the claim was that it was town, but it's faded. I'd feel like a bit of an ass jumping back onto Rhinox though, so I'll wait.
I wanted to vote it
so badly
. But the crux of the matter is: scum would feel like what Quilford is saying, but they wouldn't express it in words. They'd just shut up and do whatever. Quilford is showing a level of transparency that is unlikely to come from scum.


Hey Stag--why is BBM town? Why Quil? Why was UT scummy? You're spewing reads onto the thread and I've yet to see some decent reasoning for them. (Side note--as I go through this, I end up scrolling down to see JD making pretty much the same questions. More townpoints for JD etc.) Also also also--what I just found in your ISO, all your references to me:
In post 142, Staeg wrote:I pretty much always have scumreads on people with nhammen's playstyle but not here.
Tierce may or may not be scum.
unvote
Vote: tierce


everything else seems largely irrelevant.
In post 372, Staeg wrote:uggggh now tierce is probably scum, too
In post 407, Staeg wrote:
In post 403, AGar wrote:
In post 402, singersigner wrote:AGar, if that's the way you feel about Quilford, how do you feel about Tierce?
Tierce's fit felt legitimate - I feel like she actually was pissed off that Quag didn't read his role PM without thinking it through, whereas Quilford was just upset because scum were distinctively at a disadvantage in that situation. I've got other problems with Tierce's game so far, but I feel like her fit was alignment independent.
Wellll the problem here is pretty much exactly what JD said, she didn't do ANYTHING before said fit.
In post 409, Staeg wrote:No, tierce, that's not what I said - I'm pretty sure you know I would expect you to replace out in these circumstances. I'm saying, you were doing nothing and then some and suddenly popped out to replace out.
In post 418, Staeg wrote:
In post 415, Quagmire wrote:Jesus, you guys. Tierce is scum so hard. How do you not see it?

I'll be having that case you promised, thanks
In post 453, Staeg wrote:
In post 451, singersigner wrote:He's admitting it's bad in a LARGE game. Which it is.
But not because of the claiming - it's because of the stifling of all discussion that happened due to the claim and how long it took. So, if you're here, there's no reason not to claim (well, at least no reason that anyone has brought up).

P-edit: tierce, no, bad tierce.
You're not scumhunting.
You can hardly remember what you said about me whenever you make a new post. You keep flopping back and forth on me, and not in a way that makes it look like a fluid read or a read you are uncertain of. It reeeeaaally looks like an excuse to coast and wagon when it's advantageous for you, and now you're doing the same with singer.

UNVOTE: redFF
VOTE: Staeg


Flameaxe--why singer over red?
Note to self to look up some BBM games. Has been a while--I want to see if the laconic style with no stated reads is typical townplay or not.


Would vote singer, bv310, scooby, all three by sheer strength of being utterly useless so far. However, there is a caveat on singer--she pulled pretty much the same uncooperating BS in Mafia Behind the Maiden. Glork has alluded to this. She can be obnoxious, obstructive and stubborn, but that doesn't make her scum. Worse than that--singertown doesn't react to pressure to step it up. That's a stupid compromise wagon that is likely to hit town. Votes on Staeg please and thank you.

As for redFF, if wishes were guns. Hoopla says red is showing an attitude he wouldn't as scum; how familiar are you with red's games, Hoopla? Can you provide evidence supporting this?


Would totes lynch Izzy. <3
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:25 am

Post by Tierce »

Nnngh have to meta Staeg. But WTF DUDE. Your play makes NO SENSE AS TOWN.

Whatever, bed bed bed.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:40 am

Post by Flameaxe »

@Tierce: I dislike how singer entered the game. She went on for a week hiding behind a massclaim as a reason to hold off information (seriously, who the fuck decided no content during massclaims should be a thing?). When the massclaim wrapped up, she not only avoiding taking part, but continued to avoid content, at one point saying it was just the way she plays. Generally a turn off set of events for me.

I'd be okay with moving my vote for a bit. This is the result of me sleeping on it, for the record. I'll move my vote to one of Singer/Nhammen if this doesn't go off the ground. But, lets be honest: It should.

Unvote, Vote: Staeg
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:46 am

Post by Hoopla »

In post 571, Tierce wrote:First things first: I have no idea who scooby keeps referring to as 'Koffing'. Granted I've been mostly ignoring scooby, but inquiring minds etc.


Koffing is Quagmire.

In post 571, Tierce wrote:Hoopla, why is singer's claim more important to you than the fact that Quagmire has refused to claim?


I'd like his too, but I don't really think I'd be able to get him to cooperate.

In post 571, Tierce wrote:Hoopla says red is showing an attitude he wouldn't as scum; how familiar are you with red's games, Hoopla? Can you provide evidence supporting this?


I'm not overly familiar with his games. I'm familiar with this type of player though.

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