Micro 70 ~ Mafia in Triplicate (Game Over!)

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

VOTE: Shamrock

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So far, town read on Tierce for not following instructions from the previous players. Scum's main goal is to blend in. Slight scum read on Xalxe for trying to continue RVS. It is not much to go on but it is a start.

Unvote
VOTE: Xalxe

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Empire, regarding Tierce "not following instructions," I was talking about how she ignored what Xalxe said about going around in a vote circle and cast her own vote. I saw it as a mild town-tell because I'd expect scum to do what Xalxe said based on the natural tendency of scum to blend in.

Regarding NS, I can see the scum motivation to make fluff posts. For instance, to vote the mod and remark on the fact that the mod had a higher lynch threshold. In essence to make it seem like he is contributing to the discussion without actually posting anything of substance regarding the players.

I have a scum read on Shmugen as well. 36 seems like a vague indication that he believes Tierce/NS are both town and seems to explain Tierce's reasoning for her i.e. Shmugen is making assumptions as to what Tierce is doing (digging to see what comes up) which he doesn't know. It is a possibility that Tierce is digging. It is also a possibility that Tierce has a legit scumtell on NS. If NS is scum, FOS on Shmugen for trying to discount Tierce's FOS as digging. Also, Shmugen calls out Empire on "brown-nosing." I read that as a greater strategy to discourage people from sheeping Tierce by attacking the "sheepers" on a personal level to make them feel worse about themselves. I don't find Empire's blatant sheeping suspicious at all. NS and Shmugen seem much more suspicious.

Trying to discourage people from sheeping other good players by accusing them of "brown-nosing" = scumtell because he wants to manipulate people into thinking it is not "cool" to sheep. Making assumptions about Tierce's motivation and downplaying her FOS on NS = scumtell if NS is scum. I see plenty of scum motivation from Shmugen regardless of NS. I'll go with Shmugen for now.

VOTE: Shmugen

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I choose not to be paranoid. I can play every game worrying about whether the best players are scum and get all worried or I can trust my skills as town to be able to nail scum when they do something scummy - and right now Shmugen is the scummiest to me. The fact that I read you accurately in our last game is a factor as well.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Shmugen, what exactly do you mean by "digging to see what comes up?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay, so when you say Tierce is "digging to see what comes up," she is trying to "learn more about a player's alignment." But how is that scummy? That is what town is supposed to do.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

You said if you had to pick one of the two to be scum, you'd pick Tierce. But all you have said about Tierce is that she was "digging to see what comes up." So, I am assuming that is what you found scummy. If not, then what is?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Shmugen, can I have a link to a town game and a scum game that you played?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Xalxe, explain why you think Empire is scum. You say little about him in the last post despite him being your top scumread. Also, why am I wrong about Shmugen?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I agree with Empire that Shmugen always comes across as scum. The games he linked are evidence of that. Let's re-evaluate from a different perspective.

- Empire, why did immediately think I was town after I made a post FOSsing Shmugen?

- What about Tierce's case on NS was so great that you call it "ownage?" It was decent, it was good for a start, but nothing remarkable.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tierce, how is Konowa town?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire

@ Empire, just looked through your ISO in that game. Tbh, you are acting pretty much the same as you are here. Making wall-posts about your thoughts, pushing for "more votes." It is null to me considering I haven't looked through a game you played as town. Can you provide a link? You say you are eager to scumhunt here but so far, you haven't scumhunted anyone by yourself. You have:

1) A random vote (

null read

)
2) Sheeps Tierce (

null read again from this post, praise is fine, I have done it before as town

)
3) Autocorrect (

null

)
4) Justifies voting NS, Saulres's post 20 rubbed you the wrong way (

null, considering you were asked to justify it

,

and scummy, considering you say nothing about why Saulres's post rubbed you the wrong way

).
5) Autocorrect (

null

)
6) F-16 is town, more votes on NS (

again null, considering you had an explanation for why you thought I was town

)
7) Justifies use of the word ownage (

null, defending that stance was necessary considering players were asking about it

)
8) Say you can understand Shmugen's stance about NS, more FOS on NS. (

Townish, pushing on NS

.

Scummy, the following two quotes

)

#20 felt like [Saulres] was trying to lead into an FoS on both NS and Konowa with his questioning.

How so? Can you elaborate?

I liked his #53 stance against lurkerdom + call out of Xalxe and Shamrock.

What is there to like about it? He called out two inactives while he himself stayed inactive. Sure he had an excuse but I don't see how that makes his post likeable.
9) Happy Birthday Tierce (

null

)
10) Explains townread on F-16, explains usage of the word "ownage," excited as town, links to scumgame. (

null

)

Yeah, I can't get a proper read on Empire yet. Want to see scumgame.

Tierce

@ Tierce, regarding Konowa, the reason you think is town seems really weak. Scum could potentially have asked town what to do with their info to make it seem like they want to hear town's opinion's about it. Also, unless I missed something, why don't say anything to Konowa about how he should use his info?

This doesn't make sense either:

Vi is being etc. Konowa is probably Town,

carry on

.

When have you ever told town to "carry on" as opposed to actively demanding that Player X needs rope. I've never seen you not try to take centerstage in any game that I've played with you or read where you were town. Although, admittedly, you never did this as scum either, so I am not sure what to make of it.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, and Happy Birthday Tierce.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Empire, okay. Your reasoning for getting a townread on me was also based on meta-reference, so I can buy your read on Saulres.

Tierce, you never offered any opinion on my accusation of Shmugen nor did you offer any opinions on Shmugen's responses. You also never said anything about my comments on Empire and only responded at the ones directed at you. You didn't say anything about Saulres calling out Shamrock and NS on lurking. And yeah, that seems different from how you act as town. Last game we played together, I remember I made a comment that "Player X and Player Y are lurking" and you generated a 10 page discussion from it. In this game, nothing. Only responding to questions directed at you.

To be fair, I do find it annoying that NS hasn't responded to the FOS on him yet.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Gut read, but I'm confused as to why F-16 is tying to undermine Tierce's townread on me? I really don't see the town motivation here.
I get the points against NS, but I'm more inclined to think Xaxle is scum. With how much white knighting he's doing also, I'm also inclined to believe they aren't scum together.

I am not trying to "undermine" a town-read on you. I am trying to figure out if Tierce had a legit townread or is just pulling stuff out of thin air in order to have a townread.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I said "

Scum could potentially have asked town what to do with their info to make it seem like they want to hear town's opinion's about it.

"

I am pointing out the flaw in logic because while you may well be town, the reason that Tierce gave alone isn't enough to come to that conclusion from someone who doesn't know your alignment.

What I am more interested in right now is your response:

- You don't question Tierce's townread on you or ask her why she thinks you are town. You seem content to have Tierce assume that you are town more than trying to figure out her affiliation.

- You are paranoid that the town read on you may be "undermined" when I wasn't accusing you at all in the first place, but rather Tierce.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Konowa, explain how the fact that you were willing to share information with the town makes you town.

Questioning player's townreads is important in finding scum because scum often call townies "town" and have "townreads" on townies.

Regarding paranoia - Your initial FOS was understandable and can be chalked down to a miscommunication. What I find suspicious is this:

After

I plainly clarified to you that I wasn't accusing you but rather Tierce of being scum, you continue along the same line of reasoning. This shows me that you want Tierce to have a townread on you and you don't want me to dismantle the logic and negate the townread. This despite the fact that negating Tierce's townread on you is a FOS on her for having a poor townread as opposed to a FOS on you, i.e. I wasn't saying "Tierce's townread is false, Konowa is in fact, scum." I was saying "Tierce is having townreads for bad reasons, Tierce is scum looking for an excuse to have townreads on townies." My intent should have been clear based on me clarifying that I wasn't accusing you. Yet, you are worried about me "undermining" a townread. Your focus is in the wrong place. You are not scumhunting Tierce but rather seem more invested that Tierce thinks you are town and see my refutation of that townread as a threat to you despite it being aimed at Tierce.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, this gets even more interesting.

Also, if the italicized is referring to me, I don't think I ever asked what to do with said knowledge. Where are you getting this from?

My mistake. You never did. That solidifies my scumread on you.

Now, let's look at Tierce's post:

To put it in examples:
1) "There is something that might happen at the end of D1, I have no details" - could be from either alignment.
2)

[Clams up about real info]

- probably scum.
3) "Uh, guys, I have role information about D1, I don't know if I should reveal it, opinions?" - Town.

Tierce says that you did, hence you are town. Tierce's reason for thinking you are town never existed. YET, you didn't question that read and take Tierce's read at face-value and question ME for questioning HER.

UNVOTE: Shmugen
VOTE: Konowa

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Slight mistake there. I realized you said you never asked what to do with the info, not whether or not you should reveal it. It is irrelevant though. Your behavior/paranoia is my primary reason.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Shamrock, why no opinions on me and Konowa accusing each other?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

So... I am attacking your biggest townread. Why no comment?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

^ Who are you and what are you doing with Tierce's computer?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Shmugen, exactly what about the "tone" of the questions doesn't seem right to you?

I explained the initial townread on Tierce. Based on the few posts that were made, those were my initial assumptions. Also, regarding Konowa, what "pushing for info" are you referring to?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah, that might be a legitimate accusation if I

hadn't

played with Tierce before. But I did. I

know

for a fact that buddying her isn't going to do me any good or make her view me any more favorably, and might even get me lynched. I legitimately had an initial townread on her based on those posts.

Here is the argument about Paranoia:

- Tierce says Konowa is town.
- I question the read to figure out her motivation.
- Konowa doesn't like it.
- I explain to him that I am not questioning whether he was town but rather questioning whether Tierce had a legit townread.
- He doesn't see town motivation in my questioning.

This doesn't make sense from a town-Konowa perspective, because as town, you always have to question reads, poke and prod at players and scumhunt. Scum aren't going to present themselves on a plate. We need to find scum. Questioning player's positions, challenging them, testing reactions, that is how we can spot scum. It doesn't make sense for Konowa to find it scummy.

Let's look at scum motivation. Scum-Konowa could feel threatened that I would persuade Tierce to change her mind. This leads him to pre-emptively FOS me in order to discourage that. That is where the paranoia is. Why bother someone who is scumhunting if you are town? Let them do it and see what happens.

To draw an analogy, I did have a lingering suspicion that Empire was scum having a townread on me, and felt I needed to explore it further. Why isn't Konowa wary of the same thing and why doesn't he feel the need to figure out Tierce's affiliation? Why is he actively discouraging other people from scumhunting. That's the reason I find Konowa scummy.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Where the hell is Xalxe? Is he hoping to lurk to a win here?

I'll look for more scum when I can focus better.

You are one who is lurking. You have 6 posts, the lowest in the game. You are calling out the person with the second lowest number of posts.

None of your posts have any good content.

1) Random vote
2) "

NS, how about playing this game, instead of some hypothetical bastard game

?" - Just fluff, no reads.
3) Apologies for lack of particiapation, calls out other lurkers.
4) Argues with Xalxe about whether it is a bastard game. Why argue such irrelevant things. I can think of a reason that Xalxe and you are both scum and distancing yourself from each other. "

Pot meet Kettle

," you say to Xalxe. Xalxe would probably respond Kettle, meet Pot - because it is true. You are accusing each other of lurking while both of you are lurking. Comments on Tierce's rage. (This part is at least remotely pro-town.
5) Explains Tierce's rage is not alignment null.
6) Xalxe is lurking! Scum!

I really want to vote you at this point especially since a part of my gut is saying Konowa is prob town. But the facts point to Konowa for now and I'll wait for his response to hear his perspective of his actions.

I am leaning toward Xalxe/Saulres scumteam right now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Partly because I haven't ruled him out and partly because I want to hear his perspective and an explanation before moving on if it is legit.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Hi

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Care to explain your vote?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Okay then... and there was me hoping to get into a 10-page long argument to take my mind off of homework.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE: Konowa
VOTE: Tierce x3

@ Mod, I am using my triple vote on Tierce.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Any reason why you are being

this

passive in this game?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

And please stop calling me "kiddo" or "kid," because I am not. I was talking about HW for my college classes.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

That's okay, don't worry about it.

My point is more towards why you are not scumhunting at all. You first vote NS, then you post next to nothing of substance. Then you vote me after NS posts and I FOS Xalxe and Saulres and you provide no reasoning for it.

Why aren't you scumhunting or trying to figure out anybody's affiliation? Or being pro-active and posting analysis of the game. You haven't said anything about Saulres and Xalxe as well. I guess one interpretation could be that you are scum with Xalxe/Saulres and your vote as a chainsaw defence of Xalxe/Saulres if one of them is scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

UNVOTE:

New theory: NS and Shamrock are the scumteam.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Oh, I get it now. There are 3 scum. That explains why so many people are acting scummy.

I don't think my theory of NS/Shamrock scumteam is out of the question with one other scum player in addition to them. Notice how Shamrock shifts attention to Shmugen after I vote Shmugen and diverts attention from NS who was being pressured at that time? Also, him not giving any opinions on me vs Konowa makes sense if me vs Konowa is town/town and Shamrock doesn't want to poke his head in that fight too early.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

^ I noticed you didn't address my full response to you.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I have townreads on Tierce and Shamrock which I can give reasons for later if anyone wants.

Yes, please.

A more content up post will have to follow this one. I want to get this out though.

F16, I didn't question Tierce's townread on myself because I think she is town as well. I think given wincon and possible PR play, bussing would be an incredibly ballsy move. Her push on NS didn't feel forced or fake. I don't think scum would be front runners in this game.

I know there are other things to address, but catching up I felt like game was stalling waiting on me to respond to this.

Okay, there are plenty of problems with that assessment (why wouldn't Tierce be trying to mislynch town-NS? what does white-flag have to do with scum being "frontrunners" in the game? etc.) but my gut says you are town so we'll skate over all of that for now.

@F16 - If I had to pick one of the two to be scum, I'd pick Tierce, but any scum worth their salt knows they have to pick their battles. This battle is silly and not one I would bother fighting if I was scum, ergo I think they're both town.

"If I had to pick one of the two to be scum" -- He gives a reason for Tierce not being scum if NS is town. He gives

no

reason for NS not being scum if Tierce it town. And yet somehow, "they're both town".
Read his post with him not knowing either Tierce or NS's alignment. Then read it again with him knowing them.

I don't get it. But I found this post suspicious for a different reason. Why would Shmugen want to "pick his battles" as

town

? He says any scum would have pick their battles, not any town. This post came off as really odd but I don't know what to make of it.

--------------------

I found Saulres suspicious but the quick votes on Saulres are concerning. The L-1 wagon came so quick, I am starting to doubt whether it is on scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Shmugen, now that Konowa has responded to me, would you care to respond to my response to you? I have trouble understanding why you found me suspicious for attacking Konowa. I have explained why I voted him to you very clearly in my response. Your reason for FOSsing me was that you didn't understand why I FOSsed Konowa. I am not suspicious of Konowa anymore but that is beside the point.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Shmugen,

@16 - It took a few more readings, but I get where you were going with the Konowa point now. I think what was throwing me was your phrasing when talking about how you weren't debating Tierce's townread on Konowa, leading me to think you agreed with it only to vote him in the next post? I should really try taking notes one of these games so I understand what I've been thinking.

You thought I agreed with Tierce's townread on Konowa but I voted Konowa anyways which you found as scummy? Why did you need to wait for Konowa's response to answer that?

I'll put it this way, fellow who posted two minutes after me. I'm never one to talk re: skill level, but the bit about Tierce's breaking the voting circle being a townread is bush league.

The only motivation I can see for it is not knowing who Tierce is and thinking it would get Tierce to leave you alone.

So, you did not read this post?

Yo. I know who you are. How come you're apparently not the least bit paranoid of me here?

If you did read it, then you are fabricating scumtells.

As for Konowa, I don't fully comprehend the paranoia argument, but it smells like you're trying to bait people into chainsawing

. I misread the bit about Konowa not asking for info as you wanting him to say more, my bad on that front.

Can you explain the bolded part. I don't understand it.

Also, you say you misunderstood why I was voting Konowa, but my 126 explains why I thought Konowa was scum. So, the misunderstanding was cleared. Why did you need to wait for Konowa's response to only later give me an answer that had nothing to do with Konowa's response?

Saulres

, I am very interested in hearing your responses to Tierce's 182 and 183 as well.

Shamrock

,

I have Opinions but I wanna see how he responds to your post first.

Care to share?

Tierce

,
Do you think NobodySpecial is town now, or is he bussing Saulres?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Vote Count VII:

saulres (L-1) ~

Nobody Special, Shamrock, Tierce, Shmugen

Nobody Special (L-3) ~ Empire,

{Tierce,}

Konowa
F-16_Fighting_Falcon (L-4) ~ Xalxe
Shmugen (L-4) ~ saulres

Shmugen (L-5) ~

{Shamrock}

Xalxe (L-5) ~

{saulres, Konowa}

Not Voting:

F-16_Fighting_Falcon,

{Shmugen}

I don't buy that a wagon this quick doesn't have scum in it. Either Saulres is town or scum are bussing to make it seem like he is town. So, I am thinking at least one scum amongst NS, Shamrock, Tierce, Shmugen.

Suspicions is order:

1) Shmugen - his vote on me really makes no sense at all and I am not sure why he wanted to wait for Konowa's reponse. I explained it in detail in my previous post as well.
2) Shamrock - The hesitation in giving opinions about me vs Konowa makes sense if it is town/town and Shamrock doesn't want to poke his head in it too early.
3) NS - Pops up out of nowhere to place a vote on Saulres; he himself has been lurking and largely just ignoring the pressure on him hoping it would go away. I still have a gut feeling he might be frustrated town.
4) Tierce - actively townhunting, I am leaning town on her.

VOTE: Shmugen

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

talking about you like you were conftown

Holy exaggeration batman. Evidence, please.

Get back in here, F-16_Fighting_Falcon. One scum at a time.

??

I buy Saulres's explanation regarding the non-chronological order of posts. He really did seem like he needed to catch up.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Tierce, I agree with Saulres's point that I didn't consider the possibility of you being scum in my 39, but I also think "treating you as if you were conf-town" is an exaggeration on Saulres's part. I am trying to figure out if it was done with scum motivation or merely if that is how he interpreted it.

He's trying to sell "F-16 didn't posit the possibility of Tierce being scum when describing Tierce's actions as proTown" as something suspicious and worth prodding.

Then why has he completely ignored me in his analysis and voted the person that

I

was pressuring when I made that post? It doesn't make sense as town OR scum.

@ Saulres, did you find my 39 suspicious? If so, why are you voting the person I voted in that post? (Unless you think I am bussing Shmugen that early in the game).

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Tierce, do you disagree that there is scum on the wagon? It formed really quickly which makes me wary. Why aren't you suspicious of that? You have townreads on me and Konowa: neither of us are on the wagon. So, unless you are saying the scumteam is Xalxe/Empire/Saulres, there's got to be scum on this wagon - at least from your perspective.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Saulres 53, I am curious as to how you found time to follow the activity of other players, and more importantly why you felt the need to check it when you yourself can barely find time to post. I do get your point about RL vs posting elsewhere on site, but this seems like a really odd thing to pay attention to. Why were you specifically checking people's posts on site to see their activity level as opposed to reading the thread? Did Xalxe ever fool you as scum before? Why the specific attention to and paranoia of Xalxe?

Tierce, why do you think Saulres is pandering to you as a scum strategy? If he played with you before, he should know that it wouldn't do him any good.

Anyways, I'll wait for Saulres's response and I want to hear Empire's, Konowa's and Xalxe's opinions as well.

Another thing - the lack of a counterwagon is noticeable as well. So, we have a 9 player game with 3 scum. Meaning if town mislynches once, we are at LYLO after the N1 kill. So, we need to be extra-careful. Scum would be looking to mislynch as opposed to bus in a setup like this one since only 2 scum need to die for a town win.

Hypothetical, let's say Saulres is town - he gets mislynched and puts town at 7P LYLO. At that point, as long as ONE townie votes another townie, scum can hammer to win - a bad position to be in.

So, given the choice, scum will mislynch a townie D1. I think we should be more careful with this one.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

We shouldn't lynch Saulres. He has been providing good content and gut feeling says town. Another towntell: he suspects me who isn't on his wagon.

@ Saulres, I don't think I would describe my post 39 as "not waffling on an RVS based townread." I simply didn't include the possibility of Tierce being scum because it was irrelevant to why I found Shmugen scummy. To me it seemed like Shmugen was downplaying Tierce's read which was the basis for why I thought he was scum.

I find Tierce scummy. It seems like she is trying too hard to persuade. Also, she personally appeals to me - in a way to get my vote. I've seen her do this before as scum but as town, her arguments are more general and directed towards a larger audience rather than specifically designed to get specific players to vote for her target.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Although Tierce-scum doesn't make sense with NS-scum. She attacked him at the start of the day thread and I am getting a bad vibe since he is posting in other games but not here. Xalxe needs to offer his input as well.

NS wagon: The reasoning for it isn't bad but Empire's vote was stuck there since a long time and Konowa has yet to post decent analysis.

@ Saulres, did you switch to NS solely because he said we agreed with me that we should slow down but didn't unvote?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NS is at L-1 now so I'll wait for him to post. Let's see how he responds. Hopefully, that will give us a good read.

Btw, Tierce, off-topic, I responded to your post in the forum62 thread and hopefully corrected the situation.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NS, Reads change. You link to my post where I ISO Saulres's 1st 6 posts and call him scum. I then read his next 12 posts which are:

7) Explains why he can't post but why suspects Xalxe regardless.
8) Votes Shmugen based on Shmugen's 44, questions Konowa.
9) Attacks Shmugen's response, points out why Shmugen's logic was poor. Gives reasoning for townreads on Tierce and Shamrock (I don't agree entirely but it is decent enough.)
10) Explains to Tierce the non-chronological order of his posts.
11) FOSses me, explains the reasoning to Tierce.
12) Explains townread on Shamrock, says why he would have asked me about my post if he read it in real time, votes NS for saying we should use the available time but not unvoting.
13) Explains why he moved his vote.
14) Waits for NS posts.
15) Explains why he found me suspicious to Tierce.
16) Clarifies his post to me.
17) Pushes on Xalxe.
18) Asks mod for prods on Xalxe, Konowa and NS.

This ^, NS, is what hapenned between the last post I made FOSsing Saulres to my final tonwread on Saulres that you present as a "multi-shifting" view. I am much more suspicious that you first agree with me and vote Saulres, and later expect me to continue along the same line of reasoning when so much has happened between the initial accusation and the present.

Also, you claim you are voting Saulres because you agreed with my post. Let's see what is written there.

Where the hell is Xalxe? Is he hoping to lurk to a win here?

I'll look for more scum when I can focus better.

You are one who is lurking.

(Not anymore)

You have 6 posts, the lowest in the game

(he now has 18 and some of them actually give reads on other players and offer content)

. You are calling out the person with the second lowest number of posts.

(He now has a legit reason to continue calling out the lurkers - he isn't one.)

None of your posts have any good content.

(This changed)

1) Random vote
2) "

NS, how about playing this game, instead of some hypothetical bastard game

?" - Just fluff, no reads.
3) Apologies for lack of particiapation, calls out other lurkers.
4) Argues with Xalxe about whether it is a bastard game. Why argue such irrelevant things. I can think of a reason that Xalxe and you are both scum and distancing yourself from each other. "

Pot meet Kettle

," you say to Xalxe. Xalxe would probably respond Kettle, meet Pot - because it is true. You are accusing each other of lurking while both of you are lurking. Comments on Tierce's rage. (This part is at least remotely pro-town.
5) Explains Tierce's rage is not alignment null.
6) Xalxe is lurking! Scum!

I really want to vote you at this point especially since a part of my gut is saying Konowa is prob town. But the facts point to Konowa for now and I'll wait for his response to hear his perspective of his actions.

I am leaning toward Xalxe/Saulres scumteam right now.

NS, Explain why you still agree with my post?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ NS, what are your reads on the game so far?

@ Saulres, can explain your vote now?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Konowa, reasoning for NS/Empire being scum together, and possibly Shmugen?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I was just about to declare intent to hammer as well. I agree with Saulres's post above.

NS should claim now.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am conflicted on NS's claim. I can buy it because of its uniqueness but there are a few things that need to be answered.

If you change the affiliation of a mafia member, won't they just out their two buddies leading to an easy town win? What will prevent this from being game-breaking?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, it doesn't explicitly say what prevents them from doing that, but I think such an action would be modkillable. Also, see the "Other" section of the rules, especially the third point.

I wouldn't put it past Vi to modkill all the scum if a converted scum outs their partners, leading to a town auto-win.

(But that's edging into set-up spec, and I try not to do that,

especially

with Vi.)

Now I am even more torn. The bolded part is a really lame answer. If NS is telling the truth about his role/is town, I am thinking there isn't a mafia or the mafia don't know who each other is. Those are the only solutions that make sense to me. If there isn't a mafia, there are likely 3 third parties. I am leaning towards there being a mafia who don't know who their buddies are though.

General Rules:

Hawt New Game Mechanic rules:

1.

Rarefaction.

There is a mechanic that will apply to certain people.

Based on this, I am willing to buy NS's claim as town. A really odd claim to come from scum.

However, on the other hand, if he converts town to scum, game over if we mislynch which is really unbalanced. YET, if scum don't know who each other are, would they be able to quickhammer during LYLO at all? Interesting conundrum.

I've heard enough that I want Konowa to elaborate on his comment.

Tierce's over-eagerness is making me nervous.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

NS, I am assuming your wincon is "You win when two of the three scum in this game are dead." How does this rarefaction ability affect that win-con? Does it mention anything of that sort in your role PM? For instance, if you convert a scum to town, would we still need to kill two more scum or two scum total? The wording of your role doesn't seem to match up with the wincon and the wincon isn't worded in a way to account for a role such as yours. That makes me flip-flop back to NS-scum again. Also, if Tierce was scum and NS-town, she would want NS to use his role on a townie and give her a quicker win instead of pushing his lynch. Yeah, I am doing a 180. Want more thoughts, and Konowa's explanation. He seems to know something about Rarefaction so he might be able to shed some light on it.

Pedit: Ninja'd by Tierce (Tierce is town Now I am convinced). But Tierce, do you think there could be a connection between what Konowa knows and NS's role?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Just re-read. Konowa doesn't know anything about rarefaction. He says that he knows something will happen at the end of the Day Phase and guesses that it may pertain to rarefaction.

I have intent to hammer NS. I am going to do it in an hour or so. The only reason I can see for waiting at this point is to hear from Xalxe, but I don't know if he is going to post soon. I guess the other option is to use the remaining 3 days we have to post more analysis but the day dragged on long enough already and we'll be in a better position to post analysis day 2 after seeing NS's flip as well as the nk.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The replacement can probably use the night to catch up.

UNVOTE: Shmugen
VOTE: Nobody Special

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

@ Mod,

1) Can we make comments about other cells or are we supposed to ignore everything that happens in them?
2) If one of the cells lynch scum, can we make associative tells based on the scumflip for our cell?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The first was a warm-up phase. I am liking this game already.

My cell: I am still leaning town on Saulres and have no read on Xalxe. Obviously we can't do anything until the director gets in here and posts analysis. I think I am obvtown in my cell. It wouldn't make sense for me to push against a Saulres lynch as scum when I could just as easily have hammered.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

100% agree that my cell should be the last one and I think we should focus on F-16's first since I have a very strong townread on him.

I don't get this part. If you have a "very strong" townread on me, you shouldn't want to risk silencing me by potentially lynching wrong and would want as much input as possible? So, why would you want my cell to be the first to lynch?

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I don't understand either how NS's claim makes more sense than before. In fact, it makes even less sense if that is at all possible.

@ Saulres, ask away. I don't have any questions at the moment since I asked most of them when you were at L-1 but I'll let you know when I do.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I think we should mass-claim cell by cell. Each cell needs to have the most info about the other two players so they can lynch correctly. Once the lynch is done, we can move on to the next cell; massclaim, then lynch.

Shamrock, no I wasn't talking to you regarding NS's claim.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Out of curiousity, I just noticed in both of your sigs, what is the "Cult of Xalxe?"

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I am VT. I think that's everyone but Tierce who we know is town.

I am quite certain that thedirector is the scum in our cell. His townread on Saulres was based on something really weak and his scum read on me is based on a weak premise as well. If that's all he has, I guess it is just a matter of Saulres checking in before we lynch thedirector.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I agree with the plan (lynch NS first). If NS is town, Tierce/Empire/Konowa go next. If NS flips scum, me/Saulres/TheDirector go next.

Pedit: sure.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

The more I think about it, the less I am comfortable with Empire being so certain that I am town. He essentially agreed with most of what I said, although by itself not a scumtell, the overall nature that he doesn't suspect me even a bit is unsettling.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I wouldn't put it past Saulres to ask NS to use his role just so he seems more town but ISOing the two, their interactions don't look like they are between buddies. NS votes Saulres after I FOS Saulres and Xalxe hopefully trying to get me to vote Saulres as well instead of Xalxe.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Well, I am town. Want to confirm that just in case Saulres happens to be the scum.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I'll wait for Empire's read. Just in case we are wrong, I want to make sure the last cell gets it right

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

This is taking forever. I am going to go ahead and hammer unless anyone has any objections.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

All right, time to end this:

VOTE: TheDirector

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I had a lot of fun this game. I agree that the idea was incredibly awesome but so was execution. When I think of bastard games, I think of bad stuff, I played a few bastard games off-site where there was intervetion from the mod, etc and didn't like it. This game however, when I read that that first Day had been a "warm-up," my immediate thought was "awesome, I want run something like this at some point." Then, I read both of Vi's modding guides word for word for more ideas.

I don't the setup was inherently town-sided, but rather the playerlist made it so. Town were active, contributing to the game and scumhunting. NS lurked a lot and Xalxe had to be replaced; the director wasn't really active either. This pretty much just left Empire. I am sure it would have been different if the three strongest players had been scum. For instance, if scum were Tierce, Saulres, and Empire, it would have been a different story. So, yeah, I'd say the reason for a town win was primarily the town players especially Tierce who was pretty much leading the town and calling the shots and Saulres who got active at a very critical moment, convinced everyone he was town, and then the pressure on NS to get a pseudo-lynch? on him. I think Shmugen and Shamrock did a great job figuring out NS as scum in their cell. Konowa did well with his town-telling as well. It was fairly obvious that if we had chosen wrong, Empire would have been lynched in the last cell.

If you are running the game again as an open, the only problem you'd have was the "warm-up" impact of the game would be gone which was a great turn-on for me when I read that. The remaining things you mentioned (vote counts) were really minor; don't consider the game a failure just because of that. Also, if this is a "failure" for you, I can only imagine what a "success" would be like.

I enjoyed playing with a lot of you guys. This was fun.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

Yeah. I really like the concept of this game, but I think one problem with the way the mechanic was used in this game was that we all decided on a NS lynch, and then when it went into Rarefaction... well, we didn't want NS to be lynched any less than we already did, so that was one of the cells basically solved in advance.

This is true though - perhaps it would work if all 3 scum would need to be lynched as opposed to just two out of 3? Or maybe that is too much to ask. It depends on the playerlist. But then again, if a townie had been lynched Day 1, then their cell would have lynched them again, so I don't know.

However, are you accepting /pre-ins for the open version of this? >_>

I am interested too if you'll have me.

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

EBWOP

Yeah. I really like the concept of this game, but I think one problem with the way the mechanic was used in this game was that we all decided on a NS lynch, and then when it went into Rarefaction... well, we didn't want NS to be lynched any less than we already did, so that was one of the cells basically solved in advance.

This is true though - perhaps it would work if all 3 scum would need to be lynched as opposed to just two out of 3? Or maybe that is too much to ask. It depends on the playerlist. But then again, if a townie had been lynched Day 1, then their cell would have lynched them again, so I don't know.

However, are you accepting /pre-ins for the open version of this? >_>

I am interested too if you'll have me.[/quote]

[F-16_Fighting_Falcon]

I actually wondered that too but I guess it made sense. You suspected me but I was pretty convinced you were town. It would have been harder to get me to vote you than to get you to vote me. It is either that or the director never read the thread.