i'm interested in the imminent deaths of malakittens, gorgon and to a lesser extent qwints. gorgon pretty clearly thought he was going to have to bus con, but was the first to jump
Mini 1401 - Game over!
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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all right well i read day one and nobody special is my strongest townread. the whole d3x/slandaar thing feels pretty town-town too.
i'm interested in the imminent deaths of malakittens, gorgon and to a lesser extent qwints. gorgon pretty clearly thought he was going to have to bus con, but was the first to jumpoffthat wagon when the immediate powerlynch didn't happen, then he rode the counterwagon for the rest of the day. malakittens wiffewaffled about her con read until the last possible minute. qwints' initial con vote looked like an exasperated necessity bus ('such obvious noob scum!'), followed by a later unvote when the first incarnation of the wagon didn't go all the way, but his end of day one hard push on conman was i feel pretty key in actually getting the lynch through, and he could have very easily simply not gone back to the con wagon and there would have been no con lynch.. so yeah. there's also probably only two scum left. gorgon/mala are my top two choices.
vote: gorgonsoi soi soi
wins: open 69 (townie), mini 592 (sk), mini 617 (mafia rb), open 102 (mafia lover), crackers! (doctor), mini 712 (doctor), mini 715 (townie), mini 770 (inventor), lynch all lurkers (townie), mafia 100 (mason), space mafia (neighborizer)-
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Kthxbye Mafia Scum
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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In post 726, Kthxbye wrote:Rofl, what do you make of SiN's apparent drunk rant of con being town?
not incriminating. i doubt scum would defend an obviously sinking ship like that.soi soi soi
wins: open 69 (townie), mini 592 (sk), mini 617 (mafia rb), open 102 (mafia lover), crackers! (doctor), mini 712 (doctor), mini 715 (townie), mini 770 (inventor), lynch all lurkers (townie), mafia 100 (mason), space mafia (neighborizer)-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Gorgon wrote:Being pretty anal about my statistics, I'm not sure I would be ready to say right now that he's more likely scum than town (a pretty bold assertion considering the factors at hand), but I would be willing to bet that the chances of him being scum are better than random, which is enough to warrant a vote at this stage.
Anyway, as I said in my vote post his kneejerk OMGUS vote was a red flag. I read it as such because Kthxbye devotes the post that Conman was responding to mainly to complaining about lurkers (something that I myself feel is a problem in this game btw) and then votes Conman for lurking and not paying attention, and Conman responds to this by saying that Kthxbye is 'rather quick to try and take votes of [himself] and try to blame other people', where other people seems to mean just him, Conman. If this was really referring to Kthxbye's behavior in general, I'd have thought that Conman would have said something about Kthxbye earlier, which he never did. And the blaming other people part seems pretty weird in a game that's all about finding some fault with the other players (although it could be a newbie thing, but I get a bad vibe from it). Adding fuel to the kneejerk-feel fire, Conman completely ignores NS's question about the reason behind his earlier vote - as Slandaar has already pointed out.
Gorgon wrote:I only saw this after I posted my above comment. Seems like Conman is now at L-1 which I'm not comfortable with this early in the game with too little activity from too many players. Premature hammering is always something of a possibility in this scenario and I wouldn't like that one bit.
UNVOTE:
Gorgon wrote:I have no idea how to read Conman any more, btw. His bizarre antics, topped off with a self-vote, have seen to that. My gut says town right now though.
I read this sequence of posts, and it seems that Gorgon rather abruptly shifts from holding Conman-scum to holding Conman-town, and the provided explanation of "he's confusing, but gut says town now" is rather unsettling to me. Do you have anything to say about this, Gorgon?ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Also, something that hasn't been brought up yet that could be important: Huntress flipped Mason, which is always a pro-town role (unlike a Neighbor, which can include members of any alignment). That means if the other Mason(s) were to claim, they would be confirmed town.
I think having all remaining Masons claiming at some point would be a good idea; I'm not sure whether doing it today is the right thing to do or not; it may be better to wait for tomorrow.
Before I get accused of rolefishing, I'm not asking the remaining Mason(s) to claim right now. I just want to discuss with everyone the matter of whether the Mason(s) should claim publicly, and if so on which day.
This is a game I played where I was confirmed town via my Masonhood, for reference as to why I think the Mason(s) claiming could potentially be a good thing for the town.ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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Gorgon Goon
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In post 725, roflcopter wrote:gorgon pretty clearly thought he was going to have to bus con
At what point was I 'pretty clearly' thinking this? Which post(s)?
In post 725, roflcopter wrote:but was the first to jumpoffthat wagon when the immediate powerlynch didn't happen,
I already tried to explain my reasons for getting off the initial Conman. My motivation was to prevent a possible quicklynch on page 4 in a game with players, some of whom had said very little at that point, and none of whose play I knew anything about, so basically anything could potentially have happened as far as I was concerned. Given the info I had at hand it was the right move at the time. Regardless of Conman's alignment (which I had very few reasons to know much about for sure though statistics this early in the game say any given player is more likely to be town than scum unless he does something ridiculously scummy) such a short first day would have left us with very limited information on day 2. So if you're saying it was scummy to unvote at that point I would like you to explain why it was not town considering the circumstances.
In post 725, roflcopter wrote:then he rode the counterwagon for the rest of the day.
That's a very unfair characterization of my posting. My unvote was on page 4, and my Slandaar vote was on page 17. The Conman lynch then happened on page 21, so that's about 5 pages of me riding the Slandaar wagon and about 13 pages of me not doing it. Or putting it in post terms, 5 posts vs. 14. How about you address the actual content of my post in a wider context instead of just reading around Conman looking for partners? That's fine per se but pretty unreliable all on its own with no further backup.I want to concentrate on playing one game at a time so I'm not available for replacements. If this changes I will change this sig accordingly.-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Malakittens wrote:I also notice that the defense of Conman by Meph/D3x slot looks bad, but also the defense of Conman by SiN.
Why were those defenses "bad"? Do you mean "bad" as in "that was scummy" or "bad" as in "that was pretty stupid, but not necessarily scummy"? I'm also kind of curious that you mention these defenses of Conman in your initial D2 post, but you had nothing to say about my own defense of Conman, or Gorgon's, etc. Any particular reason to pick just those two you mentioned and call them bad?ALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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Gorgon Goon
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In post 728, SaintKerrigan wrote:I read this sequence of posts, and it seems that Gorgon rather abruptly shifts from holding Conman-scum to holding Conman-town, and the provided explanation of "he's confusing, but gut says town now" is rather unsettling to me. Do you have anything to say about this, Gorgon?
Honest answer? I really don't remember why exactly my gut was leaning town enough for me to write it out explicitly in that third post, even after reading these pages over. The only thing I do remember regarding this is that SiN's grand dramatic defense of Conman did make me think twice about him so that might have swayed me somewhat.
I know that probably looks bad but that's how it is.
Anyway, keep in mind that in the first post I was answering a direct call for explanations as to why Conman was scummy so of course I was writing from that standpoint back then. I do remember thinking "Hmm, what *do* I find scummy about him?" and doing my best to give a detailed answer to the question, and especially clarify what made me vote him at the time. It might look like I'm making a big case for Conman being scum but given the context and according to how I remember it it wasn't really like that.
So in short, it's a gut thing, going from gut-leaning-scum to gut-leaning-town for reasons I can't really remember too well. Really wish I did since with Conman being confirmed scum I can see that it is a valid reason for looking into me.I want to concentrate on playing one game at a time so I'm not available for replacements. If this changes I will change this sig accordingly.-
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Gorgon Goon
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In post 729, SaintKerrigan wrote:I think having all remaining Masons claiming at some point would be a good idea; I'm not sure whether doing it today is the right thing to do or not; it may be better to wait for tomorrow.
Good point. I don't really see the cons for at least one mason to claim as soon as today, as masons can't be blocked and can't really be killed unless scum successfully play WIFOM against a very possible doc. It's more of a headache than a benefit for scum, really, and a clear benefit for town; knowing about at least one live person that can be trusted. One possible con is of course that nobody would vote that player so no info from that could be gained, but I think it's a fair tradeoff at this point in the game.I want to concentrate on playing one game at a time so I'm not available for replacements. If this changes I will change this sig accordingly.-
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Gorgon Goon
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Oh and also, SK, since you include my by now seemingly infamous unvote in your sequence, it seems like you might have been thinking that the unvote was something of a precursor to me getting a gut town read on Conman, but it was no such thing, at least not consciously. My feelings about Conman per se had no bearing on the unvote, which was a kneejerk strategic move to prevent a quicklynch as I've explained a bunch of times by now - and there were plenty of posts between that and my 'town says gut' post. I think the unvote did in practice have the side effect of switching my mental momentum away from Conman though, now that I've mulled issue this over.I want to concentrate on playing one game at a time so I'm not available for replacements. If this changes I will change this sig accordingly.-
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Malakittens Survivor
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You do know that it's mostly town that controls the wagons due to there being a bunch more townies than scum, right? Or what do you mean by these sentences exactly?
I'm very aware that it's mostly town that controls wagons, but I still think it's very unlikely to have two scum wagons like that on Day 1. Ofc there's always going to be more town than scum numbers.
Have you ever played a game where Day 1 has two wagons that both have been scum?
It's possible for them both to be scum, but I really doubt it, tbh.
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Funny, Rofl, you are a funny, funny man. Funny how the two deaths that you want right now are actually pushing for your death atm. Not counting Gorgon, but Qwints/I are.
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As for the Mason claiming. I think we should have he/she/them possibly claim in the future, but not right now.
Right now is too soon and I think it's too early. I mean it gives town an advantage to have at least one confirmed town running around, but there are way more advantages to waiting than doing it today or even tomorrow.-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Malakittens Survivor
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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No. You've made the claim that there are "way more advantages" to waiting on the claims than to have them now, you should be able to back up those claims. Frankly, this looks like a stall tactic to me, and that's scummy.
Your remark about roflcopter was also quite scummy. He names you as one of his top suspects, and youimmediatelytry to trivialize what he said about you.
Vote: MalakittensALMOST ALWAYS BUSY 9-6 CST WEEKDAYS-
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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Nobody Special Survivor
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I've already told everyone SaintK is town, and I see no reason for the remaining mason(s) not to claim.
Mala, you reek of scumminess.
unvote
Vote: Mala-
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AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
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Vote Tally 2.5
Malakittens (L - 3):Saint Kerrigan, roflcopter, Nobody Special
roflcopter (L - 3):Singer is Nachomamma, qwints, Malakittens
Slandaar (L - 5):D3x
d3x (L - 5):Slandaar
Singer is Nachomamma (L - 5):Kthxbye
GorgonPacifists (Not Voting):
With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch or 5 to "No Lynch".
Saint Kerrigan (L - 6):
Gorgon (L - 6):
KthxBye (L - 6):
qwints (L - 6):
Nobody Special (L - 6):
((expired on 2013-01-13 23:59:59))-
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Malakittens Survivor
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Mmk. I do have to say that is a fast wagon that built up on me after one post.
Only person who I think is probably scum on that wagon is Rofl. I already stated my reasons for his whole slot being scum and his entry into the game hasn't decreased that nor has his quick vote on me after SK voted.
Reasons for an advantage for the masons not to claim was this:
a) Force a possible cornered scum into claiming Mason and then having a real Mason counterclaim them.
b) The fact the mason claiming now will decrease the scum need to search for the mason or any other PR to be exact. If they don't claim the scum have a harder job to do rather than an easier one.
c) You're potentially asking for a protective role to protect a claimed Mason where it can be used elsewhere.
So those were my reasons for advantages to why I believe the Mason(s) should not claim right now.-
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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Malakittens Survivor
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Kthxbye Mafia Scum
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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its ok mala, you're right, i'm not conftown. but as soon as you flip scum i might as well be.soi soi soi
wins: open 69 (townie), mini 592 (sk), mini 617 (mafia rb), open 102 (mafia lover), crackers! (doctor), mini 712 (doctor), mini 715 (townie), mini 770 (inventor), lynch all lurkers (townie), mafia 100 (mason), space mafia (neighborizer)-
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d3x Mafia Scum
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@NS- I don't disbelieve your softClaim, but really? A largely Inactive player complaining of a lack of activity? You had just been prodded for kitten's sake...
@Slandaar - In an effort to stop cluttering the thread with our continued War, I propose the following. Neither of us is going to back down. If we continue our debate in spoilers, those who don't wish to trudge through the shit don't have to.Spoiler:
Re:
It has been brought up like 3 times since I've been away that I haven't responded to this request. Good job guys. I wasn't here and it's difficult to respond to something that you're not around to respond to. This will probably be a long one, so I'm using spoilers again...In post 671, Gorgon wrote:
I don't quite understand what you meant by the bolded part.
This is a bit of a weasley statement. In the post immediately before your UnVote, you called him out as part of the 3man Scum Team.It is clear when he started to call me town was because I wasn't voting him any longer ie buddying.Explain how you believe he flipped your Vote b/c it was no longer OMGUS, plz {whch is what you are implying}.Spoiler:
@Gorgon p706 - Kthx was siting my play in this game as contrary to my Town meta, but that meta =/= consistent with my Scum meta either. There is only one way to debate meta arguments and that's with meta. Sure it's WIFOM, but any meta argument ultimately is.
This took way the fuck too long... I'll finish my catch-up tomorrow.-
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roflcopter Jack of All Trades
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it would be really awesome if dex and slandar could stop wasting time voting each other, it should be pretty obvious by now that neither of you is successfully getting the other one lynched. i humbly suggest you put aside your differences and both vote for malakittens instead.soi soi soi
wins: open 69 (townie), mini 592 (sk), mini 617 (mafia rb), open 102 (mafia lover), crackers! (doctor), mini 712 (doctor), mini 715 (townie), mini 770 (inventor), lynch all lurkers (townie), mafia 100 (mason), space mafia (neighborizer)
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