Mini 1414: Mafia and Werewolves - Game Over

[rapidcanyon]

VOTE COUNT 1.5

Revenus

- 3/7 (evilpacman18, Hiraki, JacobSavage)

Golden Mean

- 2/7 (WT Snacks, the director)

Hiraki

- 2/7 (Xegarus, Josh Lyman)

YOLO

- 1/7 (JasonWazza)

JacobSavage

- 1/7 (Revenus)

Xegarus

- 1/7 (Navarre)

evilpacman18

- 1/7 (Hume)

Not Voting (2)

: YOLO, Golden Mean

Deadline

: February 6th, 10PM, PST.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-02-06 22:00:00)

[JacobSavage]

Also Revenus, just looked though some of your games. You've used the day-vig tactic before.
Yeah Revenus is pretty much scum.

[Revenus]

Also Revenus, just looked though some of your games. You've used the day-vig tactic before.
Yeah Revenus is pretty much scum.

Oh, then you should pretty easily be able to link me to these games.

[JacobSavage]

Its ongoing, I can't and won't. You should know if you have or not, and you have.

[Revenus]

I was looking through my old games.

In NY, I mention nothing about a dayvig in my iso, so I'm assuming no one seriously fakeclaimed as one.

IN Newbie 1156, I make one pretty obvious joke post referring to a dayvig

i'm actually a dayvig

pew pew

In newbie 1302, I don't mention a dayvig at all.


So, again, where in these games did you see me reacting to a serious dayvig claim?



Oh, so you're using an ongoing game that I can't discuss that I'm still alive in to condemn me as scum.

Ok then.

[the director]

Isn't that a modkill-able offense?

[Hiraki]

Borderline.

If it were me (someone who's never a mod) I'd give a warning but w/e.

Revenus really just needs to die.

[Revenus]

I'm actually confused about the case against me from you.

Are you saying I'm faking that I thought it was a dayvig shot, or that I was faking a reaction to a shot I thought was real? I'm reading your post now on me, but it's unclear since the bulk of your case is that "REV HAS SEEN IT BEFORE OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE I HAVE" which you followup now with "LOL ITS IN AN ONGOING GAME SO IM NOT GONNA TALK ABOUT IT AND NEITHER CAN YOU".


Finally, JS; question for you; what do you think about Hiraki's

Because at least Jacob has given out some reads and is honest.

pedit: How the fuck am I supposed to defend myself from your case when I can't even explain the situation in the other game?

[Revenus]

Nevermind, I thought Jacob wrote Hiraki's post.

[YOLO]

On a "serious" note, Xergus why the sheeping Jason, I agree he's town (his play here matches how I've seen him play in other games as town, See Mini 1397 (he replaced out Day 1/2 but anyway) and Micro 104 to give you some idea of what I mean.)

Did you also find games where he was mafia and played noticeably different? Because otherwise 'Jason plays like Jason' tells us absolutely nothing about his alignment.

I swear i (and a few others) just finished saying this about Revenus

/care

The voting rationale in the last few pages really seems off. Josh, in post 73 you literally say Revenus is scum, you call for more votes on Revenus in 103, and yet you're now voting Hiraki because you don't like a certain post of his? That makes no sense. If you're as deteremined as you seemed to be that Revenus is scum, you wouldn't be swayed so easily by a single post. I'd like you to explain yourself or keep your vote consistent with your attitude.

Put it like this, he may be scum, even scum can be useful to the town for now (2 scum teams means that scum have to find the other team at least)

No. By this logic, we shouldn't vote anyone since townies are useful to town by definition and scum can be useful for finding opposing scum. That's not going to get us anywhere. If you find scum, vote scum.

JacobSavage, could you pay a bit more attention to the current game and not to past games? It's hard to get a read on you when you're mostly talking about other games. It's also quite useless imo. No scum is going to behave like their 'scum-meta' when you announce at the start of Day 1 you're going to dig through everyone's past.

[JacobSavage]

Some people just can't help it. Also I know.like none of you so can you blame.me ...

[rapidcanyon]

I know it says 72 hours before your first prod and a further 24 hrs before replacement but Golden Mean hasn't made a single post in the game despite being unofficially prodded last night (told that the game has started and to post).

If the players so request, I'll start looking for a replacement right away. You can request here or in your role PMs, that is up to you.

[Navarre]

jason. In a normal mini like this game, there should only be 1 scumteam. Your logic where scum finding other scum may work in large games, it doesn't here so keep that in mind.

Hiraki. You need to die nowish. Need i say more? you quote someone then say i need to die. Can you at least take the game seriously?

UNVOTE: Xergarus
VOTE: Hiraki

[the director]

@rapidcanyon - If you could start looking now that would be awesome. Waiting another 24 hours means the replacement will have even more pages to read to catch up.

@Navarre - look at the title of the game. There are two scum teams, probably a 2x2 setup.

[JacobSavage]

Mini Normal =! 1 scum team. 2 anti town factions are considered normal (although normally it's scum and sk)

Plus bare in mind the name of the game.

[Josh Lyman]

The voting rationale in the last few pages really seems off. Josh, in post 73 you literally say Revenus is scum, you call for more votes on Revenus in 103, and yet you're now voting Hiraki because you don't like a certain post of his? That makes no sense. If you're as deteremined as you seemed to be that Revenus is scum, you wouldn't be swayed so easily by a single post. I'd like you to explain yourself or keep your vote consistent with your attitude.

YOLO, how many total non-town players do you think we're looking for? More than one? Good job. Just because I'm voting one person doesn't mean I think all of the other 11 players are town, you know.

[Hiraki]

Can you at least take the game seriously?

Posts 4 times.

One of the posts is an RVS vote not to mention 3 vote changes within 4 posts.

To me this isn't a RV, this could be Hiraki's attempt at trying to get votes of revenue/golden mean.

Accurately depicts why I'm voting him but

still

doesn't do anything about it.

Did I forget to mention that after around 5 pages of decent content that he's only given out 6 sentences of content?

Yeah, am I the person who's really not taking this game that seriously?

Also, Josh, I am super duper paranoid of that vote thing going on so could pretty please with sugar on top take that vote and move it to someone else so I'm able to sleep at night? Thanks in advance!

P.S. Please do it within the next hour.

[Hume]

Response for Hikari:

There's a difference between avoiding RVS and talking about avoiding RVS. Not to go biblical here but it's like the whole gospel segment on praying. You don't brag about it. Applies to real life too.

Why not? Why does talking about the fact you don't like RVS make you scummy? What's the line of logic there? I don't like RVS. I'll say that straight up. I can imagine why others may also not like it. How does that make me or them scummy?

But that's the entire point. He voted on a non-serious accusation. That's randomly voting--not to the definition but still pretty close that the differences are small in number. At any rate, your conclusion to this doesn't make any real conclusion. Both of those options are still bad enough, no?

Not necessarily when there's not any further reasoning behind them. I'm not convinced.

This is SleepyKrew writing. Don't deny it. You both have proper shark avatars to. #winning

I'm not Sleepy Krew, but if I ever meet him I'll pass on the compliment.

Anyway, while I agree the hypothesis was a little off--the major point I found was that there's an ad hom attack (which is newbie aligned--I'm not particularly sure myself on scum/town alignment) and that there's a random vote, again, from someone who flaunted that he wouldn't do it.

So either we're all making mistakes or Revenus' humor is bad (the second is assured) and the first will get him mislynched if he's town. Either way, I'm not sure on his alignment but I can understand why there may be a vote on him.

This part I can agree on. Personally, I think he's town. On the other hand, if he were to be the subject of the lynch, I can't say I'd weep for him, because looking back over the last few pages he's reached the point where his antics have become so central to what we're talking about they're distracting from other possible values.

Yes--which makes a plausible vigshot so fulfilling. In addition, what does this have to do with EPM's post?

EPM said he was insulting people's intelligence and that made him scum. I was pointing out being insulting probably doesn't actually correlate that will with being scum. It had quite a lot to do with EPM's post and I question how well you actually read both his post and mine if you couldn't see that.

Good work but wrong.

-shrugs- I disagree with your interpretation and stand by my original reading. I simply don't see it the same way you do.

Response to the director:

Wagons are always good.

Factually not true when they can lead to a quicklynch and shut down a day before town can get any information. See my first game, Newbie 1311.

At any rate, Revenus is playing scared and overcompensating for his concerns with attacks and insults. Here is the story he is telling:

clipped for length

Hmm. You actually present a good case and I can see how that would work much better than Hikari's argument. You've altered my read somewhat.

Secondly, so he's allowed to be against random voting and then random vote? Even though he see's no point in it? I honestly don't see how it nullifys ANY of his point's other then the fact that you are willing to bypass them by any means nessecary.

Fact, clearly he is against RVing, Also Fact, He RV'd.

And? I often do the same. Maybe it's because I've only really played newbie-tier games both on this site and others, but if you don't engage in the RVS, everyone starts bitching at you for the next day. I don't want town to be bitching at me when they could be scum-hunting. On the other hand, if nobody ever indicates they think RVS is shit, then the fact a large group of people think RVS is shit isn't going to spread. I think it's perfectly possible to therefore say "I hate RVS, but frankly I don't have the energy to argue about something that would be better off in Mafia Discussion than an actual game, so w/e random VOTE: Bob".

I love how people use the meta defense, if you are gonna seriously defend people with meta prove that he doesn't do it as scum as well.

No. evilpacman's hypothesis was: "Player X behaves with characteristics Y if and only if they are scum." "Player X is currently behaving with characteristics Y", therefore "Player X is scum". If I can prove the premise that "Player X behaves with characteristics Y if and only if they are scum" wrong, then the conclusion is wrong. That's what I did, by pointing out he behaves pretty similarly when scum. I'm not saying this therefore makes him town. I'm just saying it doesn't necessitate that he is scum. I'm not really concerned with defending Revenus per se, I just thought evilpacman's attack was really rather dodgy - rather than defending Revenus I was attacking evilpacman's attack.

Gonna bang on a bit of theory here, Killing the enemy scum team is only actually good for either scum team if you feel the scum team is gonna kill one of you, more kills on town= game over sooner= less slips

On the other hand, higher chance you die at night. -shrugs-

OK let's turn this around, why is using Revenus's uncomplete meta valuable?

It goe's both fucking ways your using only his town meta, does he do it as scum?

If yes then this defense doesn't actually make the tell town, it makes it null, in which case he still could be very easily scum.

Answered these above.

Okay, going to do some ISO'ing then post a scum read. Will be up either tonight or tomorrow night depending on how long it takes.

Also on a total sidenote, YOLO: love the avatar.

[Hume]

EBWOP: where it says "values" it should say "avenues".

[Hiraki]

I don't like RVS.

There's a complete difference between this and this:

look at me rvs voting

If I were here earlier, I would've voted Revenus for this rather than if you came in and said you don't like RVS. Sure, I'd stir up a conversation about it in order to get out of RVS but I wouldn't immediately vote you on it.

Not necessarily when there's not any further reasoning behind them. I'm not convinced.

Sure--the start-up shouldn't be the conclusion but it should lead to it. Did you see his reactions?

Reactions work whether or not the accusations are fair.

I'm not Sleepy Krew, but if I ever meet him I'll pass on the compliment

Okay.

I was pointing out being insulting probably doesn't actually correlate that will with being scum.

This works out fine with someone who's experienced. While Revenus may statistically be experienced, he's acting/being a total noob atm. So you might as well just tag along the tells.

[Josh Lyman]

Also, Josh, I am super duper paranoid of that vote thing going on so could pretty please with sugar on top take that vote and move it to someone else so I'm able to sleep at night? Thanks in advance!

P.S. Please do it within the next hour.

What the hell, Hiraki.

What. The. Hell.

[Hiraki]

I want to see how you actually play and get over this reactionary stuff you keep pulling.

If you don't mind, of course.

[Revenus]

Some people just can't help it. Also I know.like none of you so can you blame.me ...

Why do you only attack me then ignore my response and questions?

[Josh Lyman]

I want to see how you actually play and get over this reactionary stuff you keep pulling.

If you don't mind, of course.

What makes you think this isn't how I "actually play" ?

[Hiraki]

If it is

i'm disappointed