Open 474 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over!

[Jennifer]

Two scum reads that both happen to be the last two votes for her.

The first initial of my name is also the first initial of my predecessor's name.

Your argument is weird. You seem to be arguing:
* Town would ignore scummy behaviors if done by the last people to vote them
* Town wouldn't point out scummy behavior of more than one person at a time
* Town wouldn't try to rally people to get them to wake up and see/consider scummy behaviors



What am I missing?

[goodmorning]

HAHAHA 4 pages since this morning? Good one, guys. Wait, seriously?

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Pics or it didn't happen

OK, where? You're making a pretty brazen assertion here sans evidence.

Answer this please.

Okay, since you are insisting that your list of reads were in hard rank order, and Nic was indeed your third scummiest read..
...why are you now voting your fourth scummiest read instead of your third scummiest? Or second? (Josh/I was your scummiest read)
Also, please show me the exact posts that were made that led to you deciding to vote AA9 over your scummier reads Nik and Ven.
And another also, what do you think about the fact that two of your scum reads (Nic and Ven) were on the same wagon you were on until just recently?

Past tense is the key there. AA9's random assumptions and apparent lack of attentiveness to actual things going on in the game led me to push her two spots down the list. She is now at the bottom, as replacement-you is in replacement purgatory for a little while. So she is my scummiest read as of now.
The actual posts are the ones I pointed out in the 330s I think. My last posts before you replaced in. And they are no longer scummier reads because of those posts.
I think that scumreads (on D1 especially) are completely independent from each other. If some of my scumreads are voting some of my other scumreads, fine. I'll sort it out D3 or D4 (assuming I live so long) when speculation on teams can really come to the forefront.

GM... initially seems nice and all with KX and agreed with everyone that Josh is being odd and stuff, but actually didn't vote him. when I asked him reason for not voting Josh, His response doesn't seem genuine, His responded saying that he want to give benefit of doubt and rather want the day extended, if you feel someone scum it shouldn't basically stop you voting but that is not something that worried me about him right now, what worries me that, He voted Josh after everyone started his odd behavior of not voting Josh, that's a scary attitude.

1. I am a girl. That information is right under the picture of the cat beside all of my posts.
2. WHO WANTS A HAMMER LESS THAN A WEEK INTO D1???
3. I VOTED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS MY TOP SCUMREAD. YOU UNVOTED, AND THEREFORE I COULD VOTE HIM WITHOUT PREMATURELY ENDING THE DAY.
4. IF I WRITE IN CAPITALS WILL YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT I AM SAYING, OR WILL YOU STILL IGNORE IT AND MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO? I'm willing to make some allowances for language, but this is just ridiculous.

Also, now that he's not at L-1,

Vote: Josh

Why would you put an inactive player back up to L-1? You didn't want to lynch him before, and you can't add pressure to a nobody.

Has been discussed, but
1. Didn't realize he was inactive at the time.
2. Did want to lynch him, just didn't want the Day to end prematurely.

On a lighter note:

and what is surprising me is that how you don't see GM scummy, He has was doing nothing than just twisting the game.

QFLOL.

Even skimming, goodmorning is mentioned in like every post

It's physically impossible to forget she's in the game if you've read it

Also QFLOL.

[Docteur Gudsight]

Two scum reads that both happen to be the last two votes for her.

The first initial of my name is also the first initial of my predecessor's name.

Your argument is weird. You seem to be arguing:
* Town would ignore scummy behaviors if done by the last people to vote them
* Town wouldn't point out scummy behavior of more than one person at a time
* Town wouldn't try to rally people to get them to wake up and see/consider scummy behaviors



What am I missing?

* Scum vote location and read strength are more likely to be inconsistent. The way you worded the jacob question heavily implies a stronger scum read on jacob then gm and my thoughts are you were just trying to throw suspicion on jacob.

*Jacob's behavior isn't scummy. Logical consistency on primary points is one of the easiest things to fake. It's hard to fake for more minor things. Unless jacob is a bastard jester (which he isn't since set up) the logical inconsistency is a product of lack of care in faking something which is a big town tell.

And now that els has given me permission
VOTE: Jennifer.

If anyone else needs help understanding the vote just ask.

GM I'd say I'm fairly happy with 1 day hammers and have seen them occur just fine. Once you have a scum read the job is to get them lynched not stall the day forever. A small gain in info isn't worth unnecessary artificial day pro longing (parabola theory in MD says too long days has a bad effect as well for towns). And it's not relevant now really. Enough time has passed and no one can be put at L-1 I think right now by 1 vote.

~M

[Cheery Dog]

I'd been waiting to vote him for a while, as my top scumread, but didn't want a lynch before it was necessary. I didn't even notice he was inactive at that point.

You didn't pay attention to why someone had taken him off L-1? Or even mods postings about him being prodded?
I'm surprised you even knew he had been unvoted and was even L-1 earlier in the day with that lack of reading.

Another person i am concerned about is Good Morning, He agrees with everyone about Josh being scum but actua
lly didn't vote him

You want him to have hammered now, yet you've now gone and taken your vote off him? This just doesn't make sense. My leaning town read on you has now dissolved.

What I meant was that, I found Josh scummy but he was prodded and there was a good chance he could replaced, so i changed my vote someone who i think may be scum. If everyone decides to lynch Josh i want to make sure that others know that i am with them on that.

But in your reasoning for the GM vote, you had him as scummy because he hadn't voted Josh and agreed with everyone else.
And it just doesn't make sense when GM wasn't the only person to have agreed with Josh being scummy but not voting him, is it just because of the readlists that you're only worried about one of those people that expressed interest in the Josh lynch but didn't vote?

I have time to get on this game for a minute or so, and i just read up...
UNVOTE:
VOTE: GM

G2G dinner is ready bye

Why do you keep placing bandwagoning votes on people who if I read your ISO this game, I would class as 'null reads of yours'? It's not helping these wagons along if that's what you want to happen.

Given the way the wagon grew, I would bet that there is/was at least one scum on my wagon, so I looked at the subset of people voting me to see what their reasons were and to see if any popped out as making opportunistic votes. Those stood out.

Are you seriously saying that Venrob's reason to join your wagon didn't stand out?
Venrob/Joshslot scumteam confirmed
UNVOTE: Venrob
VOTE: Jennifer

And my current opinion of gm was forgotten there, but it's the way the wagon formed on the tail of yours on top of the fact I like the reasons he gave for his read list (yeah I nagged on me being null but it's understandable similar to other reasons he gave) makes me heavily dislike the wagon.

But you still like the wagon on Jennifer? When half of the people are on both.
Add this hydra to that scumteam.

Just read up, lots of activity.

Venrob and Josh are equally scummy in my eyes, but Venrob has promised D2 activity. Josh hasn't provided anything of value in my eyes, and I don't think he plans on doing so.

I thought he was saying he'd be active day 3. If my one game previously has his playstyle right (though he's already made more posts this game than he did in the large normal I played with him that he managed to not get replaced in until day 3 or 4), he'll end up being replaced and probably a replacement will give us more content.
If you're basing your scum reads just on how much actual content someone is giving, ignoring that spencer is currently being replaced - where does he sit in your reads?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but here's my answer. At the time I considered Josh and Venrob to be almost equally scummy, but I thought that since Josh seemed to be a more active poster that was still ignoring a lot of important arguments in the game. So Josh was my highest scum read and Venrob was second. However, things have changed quite a bit. Josh was replaced, so that means to me that he probably wasn't even checking the accusations against him. A big part of my vote on him had to do with the fact that he was ignoring the accusations against him. Now, he was most certainly playing for part of the time I was waiting on him to at least defend himself, but since I can't be sure of how much I'm just going to content myself with being very suspicious with his slot.

I was understanding you scumreads to be based mostly on active lurking, and was therefore wanting to know of what you thought of a slot that hadn't actually posted anything even close to resembling content. (venrob and josh had voted, that kind of resembles a form of content).

I don't know about this GM case though.
My gut screams scum at panzer

I guess this answers the question of your read of spencer then. Though did you actually have anything on that slot being panzer came in?

1) So he went from super-strong "JOSH LYMAN IS TOWN DON'T YOU DARE LYNCH HIM" to "I'll hammer" without any mention of why in between those two posts? There's a thought disconnect here and I don't like it.

He only said don't lynch ever about KX, I don't think the Josh town read was that strong, but his into wanting to hammer does look slightly weird, but I think you're overselling him again.

I'm bad with the post tags :/ I meant to link to Jennifer's #349 obviously..

When you use them don't include the hash tag. (or use the #number in the url bar if you click on the post in question)

[PJ.]

And panzer isn't the argument on cases just that it's a different way to push things? HD thought jacob was scum. He pushed by a case which generally has more weight attached. How is pushing his scum read like that scummy? The back and forth discussion you're saying is a problem never occurred (and I'd argue back and forths are the best way to really see people pressured and discuss things instead of just having them calmly comment).

~M

It's an anti-town way to push things at best. Of course it didn't happen, the guy who he made the case against was inactive.

All. 1 sentence each is enough.

And I thought it was directed to me but I gave my feelings on gm at the top of this page and bottom of last page. I don't think he's scum. Go iso him and he does have content.
~M

Having content =/= not scummy. All of the content is scummy.

Who is GM?

I did this too


Jennifer isn't scum. Not sure if Venrob is, but I'm still much more comfortable lynching obv scum goodmorning here.

[CityElectric]

Votecount 1.9

goodmoring (L-3):

ArcAngel9, Jennifer, Panzerjager, Venrob

JacobSavage (L-5):

Human Destroyer, serrapaladin

Jennifer (L-5):

Docteur Gudsight, Cheery Dog

Klick (L-6):

JacobSavage

ArcAngel9 (L-6):

goodmorning

Not voting (3):

Klick, NicCage, KX

With 13 alive, it's 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2013-02-06 11:00:00)

Venrob has requested replacement.

Sorry for completely mixing up the (L-#) in the previous votecount. Everyone who was higher than L-6 needed to be one lower than the votecount said.

[PJ.]

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Pics or it didn't happen

OK, where? You're making a pretty brazen assertion here sans evidence.

Answer this please.

I already did.

[JacobSavage]

Firstly,
UNVOTE:

Secondly don't really get what thus whole GM thing is, personally I haven't seen it but then again maybe need to read closer.

[ArcAngel9]

HAHAHA 4 pages since this morning? Good one, guys. Wait, seriously?

Goodmorning for starting a stream of anti-town posts.

Pics or it didn't happen

OK, where? You're making a pretty brazen assertion here sans evidence.

Answer this please.

Okay, since you are insisting that your list of reads were in hard rank order, and Nic was indeed your third scummiest read..
...why are you now voting your fourth scummiest read instead of your third scummiest? Or second? (Josh/I was your scummiest read)
Also, please show me the exact posts that were made that led to you deciding to vote AA9 over your scummier reads Nik and Ven.
And another also, what do you think about the fact that two of your scum reads (Nic and Ven) were on the same wagon you were on until just recently?

Past tense is the key there. AA9's random assumptions and apparent lack of attentiveness to actual things going on in the game led me to push her two spots down the list. She is now at the bottom, as replacement-you is in replacement purgatory for a little while. So she is my scummiest read as of now.
The actual posts are the ones I pointed out in the 330s I think. My last posts before you replaced in. And they are no longer scummier reads because of those posts.
I think that scumreads (on D1 especially) are completely independent from each other. If some of my scumreads are voting some of my other scumreads, fine. I'll sort it out D3 or D4 (assuming I live so long) when speculation on teams can really come to the forefront.

GM... initially seems nice and all with KX and agreed with everyone that Josh is being odd and stuff, but actually didn't vote him. when I asked him reason for not voting Josh, His response doesn't seem genuine, His responded saying that he want to give benefit of doubt and rather want the day extended, if you feel someone scum it shouldn't basically stop you voting but that is not something that worried me about him right now, what worries me that, He voted Josh after everyone started his odd behavior of not voting Josh, that's a scary attitude.

1. I am a girl. That information is right under the picture of the cat beside all of my posts.
2. WHO WANTS A HAMMER LESS THAN A WEEK INTO D1???
3. I VOTED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS MY TOP SCUMREAD. YOU UNVOTED, AND THEREFORE I COULD VOTE HIM WITHOUT PREMATURELY ENDING THE DAY.
4. IF I WRITE IN CAPITALS WILL YOU ACTUALLY READ WHAT I AM SAYING, OR WILL YOU STILL IGNORE IT AND MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO? I'm willing to make some allowances for language, but this is just ridiculous.

Also, now that he's not at L-1,

Vote: Josh

Why would you put an inactive player back up to L-1? You didn't want to lynch him before, and you can't add pressure to a nobody.

Has been discussed, but
1. Didn't realize he was inactive at the time.
2. Did want to lynch him, just didn't want the Day to end prematurely.

On a lighter note:

and what is surprising me is that how you don't see GM scummy, He has was doing nothing than just twisting the game.

QFLOL.

Even skimming, goodmorning is mentioned in like every post

It's physically impossible to forget she's in the game if you've read it

Also QFLOL.

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

[Klick]

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

[ArcAngel9]

Another person i am concerned about is Good Morning, He agrees with everyone about Josh being scum but actua
lly didn't vote him

You want him to have hammered now, yet you've now gone and taken your vote off him? This just doesn't make sense. My leaning town read on you has now dissolved.

What I meant was that, I found Josh scummy but he was prodded and there was a good chance he could replaced, so i changed my vote someone who i think may be scum. If everyone decides to lynch Josh i want to make sure that others know that i am with them on that.

But in your reasoning for the GM vote, you had him as scummy because he hadn't voted Josh and agreed with everyone else.
And it just doesn't make sense when GM wasn't the only person to have agreed with Josh being scummy but not voting him, is it just because of the readlists that you're only worried about one of those people that expressed interest in the Josh lynch but didn't vote?

I partially agree with you on the point that one could suspect someone but not necessarily vote them becuz it is possible that’s not always you reason might not good enough for voting.
Here is what I saw in GoodMorning posts.. Firstly, She had no opinion on Josh, she just agreed with everyone. I might have buy her reason for not voting if she actually have had any reasons except that she pick an easy way to show everyone that she is side with everyone on suspecting Josh , that was more like she was keeping her options to jump in Josh’s wagon, I am also one of them who highly suspects Josh and I still do but Good Morning’s accusation doesn’t seem genuine and more over when I pointed them, she started calling me scum instead of defending herself, that was the counter attack. Now, She is calling bigger scum than Josh because I am being more vocal now. It is okay to me that if others don’t see the GM’s scummy behaviour but this is extremely odd. I know what is my role and her behaviour and response is not something that I can expect from a townie person.

[ArcAngel9]

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, And whats your read on GM!!!

[Jennifer]

Are you seriously saying that Venrob's reason to join your wagon didn't stand out?

If it stands out so much, why weren't you screaming about it earlier and trying to get people to join you on your Ven wagon for it? Despite tying Ven and I together as a scum pair and later saying Ven's Josh vote was a "wtf null vote," you never pointed out Ven's vote to people as being scummy or tried to rally people to your wagon. Why not?

There is nothing inherently scummy about bringing someone to L-1 early in the day. There is also nothing inherently scummy about voting someone you haven't made your mind up on and are trying to get a better feel for. Especially as here where the person doesn't have a strong feeling about anyone and feels 'useless' day one. His vote is null to me as a town/scum tell.

@Hydra
You're defending Jacob's unexplained, unreasoned 12-hour flip, stating 'town is ErRaTiC; ignore his behaviors that don't make sense!'
Yet, you're trying to take me for task for the order I called out suspicious behaviors (even though I called out my strongest scum read -- and voted that read -- first). No double standards please.

Also, please identify what question you're referring to here:

The way you worded the jacob question

heavily implies a stronger scum read on jacob then gm and my thoughts are you were just trying to throw suspicion on jacob.

Because my only question on the initial Jacob post was:

Why would you ever agree to lynch a town read, especially as we are nowhere near deadline?

The question

@All Why has no one called

them

out on this behavior?

was about both Goodmorning's and Jacob's behavior, both of whom I had just called out only 20 minutes prior.

[goodmorning]

Answer this please.

I already did.

If you had I wouldn't be asking you to.

Here is what I saw in GoodMorning posts. Firstly,

She had no opinion on Josh, she just agreed with everyone.

I might have buy her reason for not voting if she actually have had any reasons except that she pick an easy way to show everyone that she is side with everyone on suspecting Josh , that was more like she was keeping her options to jump in Josh’s wagon

, I am also one of them who highly suspects Josh and I still do but Good Morning’s accusation doesn’t seem genuine and more over when I pointed them,

she started calling me scum instead of defending herself, that was the counter attack.

Bold: HAHAHAHAHAHA Wait, wait, I'm going to respond to this a fourth time... Wait, no, I'm not. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Underline: My vote on him was mainly die to his unvote of KX in post 175. I believe that the reasons put forth by others (not involved, ignoring early wagons) were also good reasons to vote him, but the unvote was more compelling to me personally and, from what I've gone back and looked at, initially unique to my case.
Italics:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Now,

She is calling bigger scum than Josh because I am being more vocal now.

It is okay to me that if others don’t see the GM’s scummy behaviour but this is extremely odd.

I know what is my role and her behaviour and response is not something that I can expect from a townie person.

Bold: No, I'm calling you bigger scum than Josh/Jennifer because I have temporarily removed that slot from my reads list owing to the replacement. THAT'S IT.

[Klick]

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

SCUM FOUND, PLEASE LYNCH THIS WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, And whats your read on GM!!!

I could see gm as scum, and may end up voting her today.

I was just showing that quoting a post and saying "Oh this person is scum" means absolutely nothing.

[KX]

On the subject of things which mean nothing, is it just me, or does it seems like only about one out of every six posts for the last 4~5 pages have had coherent meaning? I'll point out what I mean later today, but is essence it feels to me as though logic has been thrown out the window for those making posts, most likely as a product of walls, bad grammar, and misconceptions.

[CityElectric]

borkjerfkin replaces Venrob, effective immediately. Thank you, borkjerfkin!

[borkjerfkin]

Hi

tl;dr while I catch up?

[KX]

welcome to the game, and gl reading all this.

[borkjerfkin]

I've replaced into longer.

Anything else to say?

[borkjerfkin]

Also who are you voting for? I don't see your name anywhere on the vote count

[Jennifer]

@KX

Will you please link me to your completed game(s) offsite that you mentioned? Thanks.

[CityElectric]

Also who are you voting for? I don't see your name anywhere on the vote count

You aren't saying... Oh snap...

Votecount will be updated... (Sorry, KX)

[borkjerfkin]

Jennifer can you summarize the goodmorning wagon if you're still around?

[Klick]

Hi bork ^.^