I don't see where you're coming from with the vote.
All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods. Is that wrong?
Accusing me of "bussing" is unfounded, I'd like you to come up with some evidence or proof to justify your outrageous claim.
Thanks
I hope this isn't confirmation bias from Yesterday working me over but it needs to be said, this post is the epitome of scum. I don't even know where to begin. Like, Metal's question "Is that wrong?" feels so out of place, it is obviously not wrong to lynch scum. What is at issue is whether scumMetal voted Gamma to get some town cred, or whether townMetal genuinely believed Gamma was scum; lynching Gamma, regardless of Metal's motivation and alignment, was the correct thing to do. Metal's wording - "All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods" - gives me the feeling he's trying to take more credit for the lynch than he deserves, especially in light of the fact Metal was defending Gamma until the very end, and waited until others confirmed that Gamma wasn't new to finally hammer away. The entire affair never seemed genuine to me, and this post brings out how contrived it really was.
In retrospect, Metal's behavior reminds me of the way I instinctively respond when a partner is about to be lynched, looking for a way to potentially defend said partner while leaving the door open to hammer them and, if all goes well, get some town credit for the lynch. I also hate this notion that bussing is "outrageous." I can't see town speaking in that kind of hyperbolic tone here, it seems totally fake. In what kind of town thought process does an accusation of a hammer as bussing seem totally outrageous?
implosion's 924 is bad. I don't see how anyone can possibly come up with a list of town reads that includes TNE, Metal, Vi, and a scum list that includes Nacho and Magua. I'd argue the reverse - Nacho is super town, Magua is leaning town, Vi and TNE are nullish, and Metal is scummy as fuck. I'd like to see the reasoning behind those reads, in as much detail as possible.
Please sign your posts. Thank you. You have a strong town perspective which has changed my read from null to lean town. Been chatting at all with your partner? Or is your partner still absent?
In post 924, implosion wrote:Right now, my townreads are newearth, metal sonic, and vi (and i suppose remilia as well, and probably also carbonfiber but not yet since i still need to actually look at him in more detail). My scumreads are... i should get on that :\. Liekly candidates include magua and nachomamma and... idrk. We'll see when i get on that in the next few days/maybe tonight~
(apologies for the multipost)
Can I get some of that magic where you suddenly pull out some reads from your hat? :V
All the posts that aren't signed by F-16 have been me (FourTrouble). I haven't talked with him much about the game, he's been busy with school so it's mostly just been me. I'm hoping he starts playing soon, at least before the game is over.
I've explained my read on TNE here. There's not much else to say. This is the most likely of my this-stage townreads to change as i read the thread, though.
I've explained my read on metal here. I can explain in more depth if you want why i find the thought process genuine - it isn't just that i feel it's genuine, it's also that I don't think it would be a thought process that would likely be used in a bus. I also think the way he acted is consistent with the paradigm under which he claimed to have been viewing gamma, and I don't think he'd have been as eager to quickhammer as scum.
I think vi's push on gamma was genuine. It's as simple as that.
I've mentioned my read on magua (albeit tentative) through mentioning that i didn't like pimhel here. To justify it: in particular, I don't like his rvs (the two votes felt awkward/nongenuine) and I don't like his immediate defensive reaction to nacho questioning him shortly thereafter. For instance, here, where he overexplains his own actions.
The nacho mention is not a read. It's me saying "I think this might wind up being one of the people that i will think is scum once i actually take a good look at them - however, i have not yet done this." Hence me not saying that he's a scumread. It's more of some backhanded weird process of chemicals semirandomly moving through my brain than it is a cogent thought.
I really don't see how i'm pulling these out of my hat when i've already mentioned 3/5 of them :S.
His thought process, as explained by him (and put into another form) would be:
Premise 1, Gammagooey is acting like a newbie vanilla town member.
Premise 2, Gammagooey isn't a newbie.
Premise 3, Gammagooey is more likely to be scum than to be town if he's acting like a newbie vanilla town and isn't a newbie.
Conclusion, Gamma is scum.
I might be slightly misphrasing it, but that's my understanding. Now, I'm not saying the premises are valid. I'm not saying the conclusion follows from the premises. I'm not saying this argument is enough to justify a hammer without a claim. I'm not saying Metal Sonic should have hammered gamma. I'm saying that:
(1) I think for a relatively new-to-MS player (his join date is in february) I can buy this as a genuine thought process;
(2) I feel like it would be awkward to use this process to bus as scum, because, as odd as it sounds, i feel like scum doing this would feel like they were being a dick. I feel like it would feel like kind of a dick move to bus your partner with the logic "this person is acting like a newbie but isn't" or at least it would feel condescending. I'm not saying it
is
a dick move - I'm saying that i feel like, if i was tempted to bus using that logic, I would be somewhat dissuaded from the fact that I would feel like i was being kind of a dick.
(3) Metal-sonic-town explains the hammer better than metal-sonic-scum. It's much more parsimonious to say "Metal sonic is town who was following through with his earlier stated threat to hammer gammagooey" than it is to say "Metal sonic is scum who was willing to flip 180 on his partner based on next-to-nothing, in a way that would likely feel like it would be perceived as suspicious, and then quickhammer him without letting him use the fakeclaims that I'm sure the scum have."
(4) The way in which metal sonic made the argument felt genuine, and I can "see into his thought process" in a way. In other words, I think his actions indicate that he was genuinely thinking about the game and trying to figure out gamma's alignment, rather than trying to manufacture fake thoughts (which scum will have to do).
I don't see where you're coming from with the vote.
All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods. Is that wrong?
Accusing me of "bussing" is unfounded, I'd like you to come up with some evidence or proof to justify your outrageous claim.
Thanks
I hope this isn't confirmation bias from Yesterday working me over but it needs to be said, this post is the epitome of scum. I don't even know where to begin. Like, Metal's question "Is that wrong?" feels so out of place, it is obviously not wrong to lynch scum. What is at issue is whether scumMetal voted Gamma to get some town cred, or whether townMetal genuinely believed Gamma was scum; lynching Gamma, regardless of Metal's motivation and alignment, was the correct thing to do. Metal's wording - "All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods" - gives me the feeling he's trying to take more credit for the lynch than he deserves, especially in light of the fact Metal was defending Gamma until the very end, and waited until others confirmed that Gamma wasn't new to finally hammer away. The entire affair never seemed genuine to me, and this post brings out how contrived it really was.
In retrospect, Metal's behavior reminds me of the way I instinctively respond when a partner is about to be lynched, looking for a way to potentially defend said partner while leaving the door open to hammer them and, if all goes well, get some town credit for the lynch. I also hate this notion that bussing is "outrageous." I can't see town speaking in that kind of hyperbolic tone here, it seems totally fake. In what kind of town thought process does an accusation of a hammer as bussing seem totally outrageous?
Hello.
If it is not wrong to lynch scum, and if it is the right thing to do, then why in tarnation are you voting me???
I did not take credit at all for the lynch(yet), are you pulling that out of your hat or what? I will have you up for slander(on the noose of course, lol) if you dare make such libellous claims against me again.
What do you mean by saying that I defended gamma? Does calling him a "newbie town" mean "defense" to you? This point is so frivolous it does not even justify a response.
My behaviour is definitely not your behaviour, you should clearly understand as much from my play earlier in the game. It is inappropriate to link my actions to those as subjective as yours, which could in fact be made up on the spot. Saying that "I act this way as scum therefore he is scum" cannot be justified or quantified.
I suggest you stop this line of hypothesis and the attempt to lynch somebody else on the grounds of an unfounded and thoroughly unsubstantiated theory.
Thanks
P-edit Thank you implosion for your defense and for restating my thought process which I had outlined prior to the lynch.
All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods. Is that wrong?
Accusing me of "bussing" is unfounded, I'd like you to come up with some evidence or proof to justify your outrageous claim.
you don't see where I'm coming from? Let's go back to Day 1...
-shallow stances given for the sake appearance, using laziness and page length as cover for lurking
-didn't actually read Pimhel's ISO when you originally called him towny with solid reads
-a read on Gamma that came out of the blue at the time of his lynch (the whole 'he is either newbtown or scum' and then waiting for someone else to tell you he is newbtown to justify a hammer reads as a forced and premeditated decision) not to mention you weren't even curious as to what he might claim despite "doubting" his alignment earlier.
-and now today with you being defensive... you admitted your posting was scummy to nacho yesterday, why is it outrageous to be voted for it today?
In post 887, Remembrance wrote:While you're asking stuff of TNE, can you I ask you stuff? Like what you think about the RS stuff, and who your other suspects are? MS is kind of weird, but he also says stuff that I'm only used to town saying (such as his frequent "laziness" coupled with his constant mentioning of isoing players. Plus his annoyance with Syrana, accusing him of being scum again.
I find quite a few players sound more certain than they really are. For example, you thought it was scummy and that MS "knew" what he would flip, but what about Nacho? He said he was sure Gamma was scum but he couldn't know that unless he was scum, could he? But we also know that Nacho postures and that we're never as sure as we sound, but that surety tends to spur us on to action, which is a good thing for town.
nothing to add to dryfit's and nib's initial take about RS, it's solid work. Wether or not it is accurate, RS' play has been townish, irregardless.
tbh I don't have any strong suspects outside of sonic. I have a few strong townreads and a bunch of murky nulls, currently rereading parts of the game to parse out those nulls.
Nacho was working with that read the entire day. MS' certainty happened in a very short timespan after expressing uncertainty.
In post 922, implosion wrote:I think the overall feeling of "bleagh" comes from how they indirectly address people, and sort of indirectness in general. The above all feel like that although indirectness might not be the best word to use particularly for the last one. :shrug:.
direct attacks are boring and lack subtlety, though being direct is sometimes more effective. I would be even more indirect and subtle if I could, but I lack the skill to pull it off.
~~~
from Matt:
post that I only was posting in zorasters game because it was deadline and it was all from my phone and I'll actually be home with a real computer tomorrow night and will be posting tomorrow night or the day after that in the afternoon
All I did was to lynch scum using my scumhunting methods. Is that wrong?
Accusing me of "bussing" is unfounded, I'd like you to come up with some evidence or proof to justify your outrageous claim.
you don't see where I'm coming from? Let's go back to Day 1...
-shallow stances given for the sake appearance, using laziness and page length as cover for lurking
-didn't actually read Pimhel's ISO when you originally called him towny with solid reads
-a read on Gamma that came out of the blue at the time of his lynch (the whole 'he is either newbtown or scum' and then waiting for someone else to tell you he is newbtown to justify a hammer reads as a forced and premeditated decision) not to mention you weren't even curious as to what he might claim despite "doubting" his alignment earlier.
-and now today with you being defensive... you admitted your posting was scummy to nacho yesterday, why is it outrageous to be voted for it today?
Thank you for your clarification. Do note that your initial vote on me was limited to only this
In post 872, AngstyMatters wrote:
especially since this happened at the very end and sonic had not interactions or mentioned gamma earlier. Mainly how he doubts gamma is scum to "Don't judge til you see the flip" like he is certain gamma is scum.
vote: Metal Sonic
All I can say is that I am confident of my scumhunting methods. I do not see the need to wait for a "claim" in such cases when I can predict the very few possible cases of flip correctly.
As I had mentioned previously, if he flips a PR I would be surprised. As of this case, he did not.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
-and now today with you being defensive... you admitted your posting was scummy to nacho yesterday, why is it outrageous to be voted for it today?
You accused me of bussing. That is an outrageous claim. I cannot view from any angle me bussing like that.(put this into meta may be useful for later)
If you said I was scummy or something that would have been fine. I acknowledge the quick hammer while the inability to justify the vote at the same moment to be scummy; due to the reason of quicklynch. Not bussing.
I hope that clarifies.
Naturally a player will be defensive, two players have attacked me and placed a vote on me. If I was
not
defensive, that's when it should start ringing bells.
With 20 votes in play, it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is Saturday, June 1st at 2 PM CST.
thenewearth is V/LA until May 20th.
"Don’t buy a dozen eggs if you just want a hardboiled egg. Don’t buy a head of lettuce if you just want a salad. Don’t buy eggs and lettuce if you want egg salad because those are not the right ingredients." -Julius Bloop
In post 872, AngstyMatters wrote:hopefully i won't get lynched over the logic of "experienced player nails scum so all their reads are accurate", at least apply some critical thinking about the likelihood of my posts coming from town or scum. Likewise, hoping my arguments aren't devalued because i was wrong about gamma.
I'm lynching you because MattP's been close to non-existent in posting in your hydra, whereas he's been plenty active elsewhere on site, and disinterested MattP is the same thing I saw in Gay Mafia II.
Disinterested, but not a non-presence. That scum MattP was in thread posting shit plenty, whereas this MattP is completely leaving his partner out to dry with posting as scum. I also don't seem to recall him making promises that he'd get into the game constantly; that read more to me like he was trying to kick himself into gear and just not making it whereas he was consistently underwhelming in Gay Mafia II but really didn't talk about it at all. I've also been a pretty big fan on 4nxi3ty's posting lately. Have you found issue with it?
In post 869, Sajin wrote:I dislike AngtsyMatters voting record and just general post content. I feel like he was trying to actively take away from the gamma wagon too.
Vote AngstyMatters
And hp, I think that we can all agree that this was definitely the shittiest hop on the AM wagon.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
Seriously vote Nibelung if you don't see that it's eons more worth it than a gamma vote right now holy shit
In post 303, AngstyMatters wrote:Gamma will happen eventually if he's scum. I'm not forgetful. Sajin is scum. Sajin is more annoying. Easy peasy we lynch the annoying one first
In post 444, AngstyMatters wrote:^^^Don't you just hate it when shit like this gets by because players are "newbs"^^^
In post 529, ² wrote:That's good enough. I wanted to know that you had actually checked out the thread that I linked. I kept my thoughts out of my first post mentioning that game because I wanted to see if other people got the same impression. I am not sure anyone else bothered to look, but I think three players from that game are in this one. Two of them are voting Gamma now. The third one (the Matt half of AngstyMatters) disagrees with them. In the game I linked, he didn't agree either IIRC.
- f
Uh I'm pretty sure I superbussed Gamma for the majority of that day and only jumped off a little before the chaos dunk on him by vi
Not that meta has any credit so I don't get why people are overanalyzing that game and using it to rationalize anything especially when it happened like 6 months ago
#271: The reasoning of not voting Gamma to focus on 'the annoying players' is a complete non-reason to avoid voting and/or giving a read on Gamma.
#273: They tried to deflect Nacho onto the Nibelung wagon when the Gamma wagon was starting to build steam. (Nacho had a weak sheepy vote on Gamma at the time)
#303: More non-reasoning to at least delay the Gamma lynch and deflect onto Sajin.
#444: Was a chainsaw attack in response to Nibelung joining the Gamma wagon.
#531: Was in response to squared + Nibel voting Gamma for meta-related reasons. Telling people to stop using meta from that game 'it happened 6 months ago' - another non-reason to try and get people to stay off of the Gamma wagon.
This was AM's reaction to the early build-up of the Gamma wagon.
The context to note here is that Gamma flipped a powerful Power Role i.e. there was strong motovation to keep Gamma alive even for a couple of night periods.
There are a couple of other little things to an AM scum-read but their response to the Gamma wagon are easily the most damning.
Well, thier response to Magua in #872 was quite scummy too.
vote: Angsty Matters
-
I felt #135 was towny from AK. After that - they are really doing nothing in this game.
Count the amount of posts in which they solely:
1) Ask why they are being town-read or
2) Ask why Remembrance is being town-read.
They spent 4 posts doing nothing but asking AM about 'why Vi is'nt super-town'
Remembrance was seemingly their only scum-read of Day 1.
@Amethyst Kitty:
I would appricate an explantion of Kalimar-scum.
tl;dr: They are doing the bare minimum scum-hunting and are pretty much just coasting(fluffing?) through the game
-
I had a scum-read on Carbon-Fiber, however thier last 2 posts have looked better.
@Carbon:
Can you elaborate on Toasty-scum pls
Speaking of, Toasty's attack on Metal Sonic is worrying in retrospect.
I felt the attack on MS was weakish at the time.
In new context: The attack and vote on MS (in which he decided to drop his tunnel-vote on squared to 'pursue better lynches') brought the VC to
Gamma (6)
Metal Sonic (4)
.
As much as I dislike ^2's game right now, I think I'm somewhat blinded by the fact that we have very different styles/views on mafia. i still think ^2 is scum, but there are better things to push.
Coincidental that this came when MS was looking like a viable counter-wagon?
He just *then* thinks the issues might just be different theory views?
His attacks on squared were not great either.
And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative
In post 866, Dry-fit wrote:I had bad gut feelings about Maxous all day yesterday. The way he ignored the gamma wagon altogether is suspicious.
Because I had nothing relevant to say about it.
"
And before anyone bitches about me highlighting PoD's 437 when I replaced in and called everyone on my wagon communists, I remind you that communism is not alignment-indicative
Magua is leaning town as a remnant of the town read I had on Pim + nothing particularly scummy stands out about his posts. 2 pointed out pretty convincingly why Toasty is scummy Yesterday.
